jezabel
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March 22, 2019, 12:03:41 AM |
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You guys do realize that wildkeccak already has fpga miners in development for it, right? I dont see a scenario where they wont be made for a v2 either.
Regardless of power consumption, your gpus arent going to compete with fpga's. either way if zano is profitable enough theres more incentive for them to be created and a good chunk of the network will belong to a select few with the knowlege and resources to make/obtain them.
Just some food for thought.
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tbearhere
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March 22, 2019, 02:04:57 PM
Last edit: April 23, 2019, 01:33:40 AM by mprep |
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One of the worst decisions that could be made.
Say bye bye to mining Zano if you pay more than 6c per kW/h (meaning at 6c per kW/h you will break even electricity cost with revenue)
ProgPoW increases power consumption over 130% in comparison to WK.
This is absolutely not needed for a 7m market cap project. Memory hardness was good enough already and ASICs wouldn't have been created for years to come.
You talking about things which are not related. Power consumption is just a part of the coast of mining(the other part is hardware coast) and will be nearly the same for all miners, it just a part of the coin price factors. And my goal is not to make coins which is cheap to mine (and actually, expensive mining will pull up the price). My goal is to have PoW hash function which is perfectly fit to modern video cards presented on the market, this strategy proved to be effective. WK2 from this perspective obviously less protected, and you being insisted so much to stay with WK2, expect me to make this project fit your particular farm or give you a chance to have private miner with performance advantages over the others? -------- I can remember some engineers, like cbuchner for example, who was doing "killing" with the private optimized miner which they implemented, and this was painful, and was big pressure on the price, and was a lot of FUD because of this, but I respected these guys, they were pretty open about what they do and never pretended to be good friends of the project.
The main factor in mining is the electricity .... nothing else. The only problem with wild keccak is that memory hardness itself seems to be not enough to have relatively strong PoW algo in this days.
It may even out the playing field too. 
You guys do realize that wildkeccak already has fpga miners in development for it, right? I dont see a scenario where they wont be made for a v2 either.
Regardless of power consumption, your gpus arent going to compete with fpga's. either way if zano is profitable enough theres more incentive for them to be created and a good chunk of the network will belong to a select few with the knowlege and resources to make/obtain them.
Just some food for thought.
FPGA's are probably on wildkeccak for a while.
FPGA's can do anycoin and are on almost all coins. Anything a GPU can do...a FPGA can do. They're probably programmed to do progpow already. It ASIC's that must not be able to do these. . |
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teknohog
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March 22, 2019, 03:49:18 PM |
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I pay .18 cents a kw. Progpow maybe unmineable. Wildkeccak is the way to go.
The main factor in mining is the electricity .... nothing else.
You do realize that mining profitability is relative to coin price and difficulty, not just absolute wattage? For example, on my GTX 1070, Wild Keccak uses 92 W while MTP (Zcoin) uses over 150 W. But I still mine the latter because it nets me much more, even after paying for electricity. Absolute wattages can be a problem due to hardware health and noise, but you can usually limit those by other means. In fact, reducing total power will often increase efficiency (hash/J). |
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tbearhere
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March 22, 2019, 08:33:08 PM |
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I pay .18 cents a kw. Progpow maybe unmineable. Wildkeccak is the way to go.
The main factor in mining is the electricity .... nothing else.
You do realize that mining profitability is relative to coin price and difficulty, not just absolute wattage? For example, on my GTX 1070, Wild Keccak uses 92 W while MTP (Zcoin) uses over 150 W. But I still mine the latter because it nets me much more, even after paying for electricity. Absolute wattages can be a problem due to hardware health and noise, but you can usually limit those by other means. In fact, reducing total power will often increase efficiency (hash/J). |
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youretz
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Activity: 126
Merit: 10
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April 13, 2019, 12:05:00 PM |
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how to mine zano on amd cards in the test net?
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youretz
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Activity: 126
Merit: 10
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April 21, 2019, 11:10:10 AM |
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I can't pick up a bat file to run the miner gives an error message progminer-zano-opencl.exe -stratum --stratum-miner-address=ZxCZkSfsPDbcmhqydkTjYBGLJgTwG78cBWSQG1REM758iQwkV5ZEei2BrJe66a3iy7DXC83B3CFz2GHuwkMs5jAF1Bvvd2iJL --log-level=2 --stratum-bind-port=11555 pause |
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jwinterm
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Activity: 3024
Merit: 1105
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April 21, 2019, 03:08:06 PM |
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Another difference in supply between Boolberry and Zano is a 20% premine reserved for the team as compensation for years of project development as well as an incentive for future work and R&D efforts. The team recognized that Boolberry fell short in this regard, leading in part to its lack of success. Yea, that's why Boolberry never came close to being as popular as Monero - because it only had a 1% premine not a 20% premine. Totally makes sense. I don't have any boolberries anymore, but I think it's also kind of arbitrary and capricious that the first swappers over the first few months will be rewarded more generously than people later on (not too mention just totally screwing people who don't swap in the first year). Why reward people for closely monitoring the shitcointalk forum? |
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versprichnix
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April 21, 2019, 04:06:46 PM |
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What's happening with the swapped bbr? Are they destroyed, or changing the owner?
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crypjunkie
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April 21, 2019, 09:53:49 PM |
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Another difference in supply between Boolberry and Zano is a 20% premine reserved for the team as compensation for years of project development as well as an incentive for future work and R&D efforts. The team recognized that Boolberry fell short in this regard, leading in part to its lack of success. Yea, that's why Boolberry never came close to being as popular as Monero - because it only had a 1% premine not a 20% premine. Totally makes sense. I don't have any boolberries anymore, but I think it's also kind of arbitrary and capricious that the first swappers over the first few months will be rewarded more generously than people later on (not too mention just totally screwing people who don't swap in the first year). Why reward people for closely monitoring the shitcointalk forum? Boolberry didn't have a premine, it has a 1% dev tax on mining which is optional(AYWK). This was never going to be enough to sustain world class developers and keep them motivated, what was developed early on in boolberry was leaps and bounds better and faster than was happening on monero(nothing). So yeah makes sense if you want to keep good development. Oh we know you don't have any boolberry you tell us every time you come here to spout, last time it was the name iirc. How is anyone going to be screwed over? Quite the opposite in fact, boolberry will continue to exist and be maintained incl any updates that are possible to be implemented coming from zano, on top of that the supply will be reduced 1:1 for every coin that is swapped over to zano.  "Why reward people for closely monitoring the shitcointalk forum?" Twitter, medium, discord & TG??? Maybe you live under a rock JW? |
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jwinterm
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Activity: 3024
Merit: 1105
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April 21, 2019, 10:40:27 PM |
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Another difference in supply between Boolberry and Zano is a 20% premine reserved for the team as compensation for years of project development as well as an incentive for future work and R&D efforts. The team recognized that Boolberry fell short in this regard, leading in part to its lack of success. Yea, that's why Boolberry never came close to being as popular as Monero - because it only had a 1% premine not a 20% premine. Totally makes sense. I don't have any boolberries anymore, but I think it's also kind of arbitrary and capricious that the first swappers over the first few months will be rewarded more generously than people later on (not too mention just totally screwing people who don't swap in the first year). Why reward people for closely monitoring the shitcointalk forum? Boolberry didn't have a premine, it has a 1% dev tax on mining which is optional(AYWK). This was never going to be enough to sustain world class developers and keep them motivated, what was developed early on in boolberry was leaps and bounds better and faster than was happening on monero(nothing). So yeah makes sense if you want to keep good development. Oh we know you don't have any boolberry you tell us every time you come to spout here to spout, last time it was the name iirc. How is anyone going to be screwed over? Quite the opposite in fact, boolberry will continue to exist and be maintained incl any updates that are possible to be implemented coming from zano, on top of that the supply will be reduced 1:1 for every coin that is swapped over to zano. "Why reward people for closely monitoring the shitcointalk forum?" Twitter, medium, discord & TG??? Maybe you live under a rock JW? Lol so prickly. What is the argument for not just keeping 1:1 swap open for an indefinite or years long period? Also, I wish I lived under a rock - bat cave living sounds pretty nice, probably save a bundle on heating and cooling costs. Anyway, 20% premine is pretty bold move. You can say what you want about Monero, but they have managed to retain the top spot among privacy coins without any premine. Zcash has an effective 10% premine, maybe 13-18% depending how you weight their taking 20% in first four years. This isn't 2014 and I understand premines have become somewhat more acceptable in the age of ICO-scams and its aftermath, but I think there is probably a strong overlap between folks interested in privacy coins and those interested in a fair launch. Maybe I'm wrong, we shall see. |
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crypjunkie
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April 22, 2019, 01:32:19 AM |
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Another difference in supply between Boolberry and Zano is a 20% premine reserved for the team as compensation for years of project development as well as an incentive for future work and R&D efforts. The team recognized that Boolberry fell short in this regard, leading in part to its lack of success. Yea, that's why Boolberry never came close to being as popular as Monero - because it only had a 1% premine not a 20% premine. Totally makes sense. I don't have any boolberries anymore, but I think it's also kind of arbitrary and capricious that the first swappers over the first few months will be rewarded more generously than people later on (not too mention just totally screwing people who don't swap in the first year). Why reward people for closely monitoring the shitcointalk forum? Boolberry didn't have a premine, it has a 1% dev tax on mining which is optional(AYWK). This was never going to be enough to sustain world class developers and keep them motivated, what was developed early on in boolberry was leaps and bounds better and faster than was happening on monero(nothing). So yeah makes sense if you want to keep good development. Oh we know you don't have any boolberry you tell us every time you come to spout here to spout, last time it was the name iirc. How is anyone going to be screwed over? Quite the opposite in fact, boolberry will continue to exist and be maintained incl any updates that are possible to be implemented coming from zano, on top of that the supply will be reduced 1:1 for every coin that is swapped over to zano. "Why reward people for closely monitoring the shitcointalk forum?" Twitter, medium, discord & TG??? Maybe you live under a rock JW? Lol so prickly. What is the argument for not just keeping 1:1 swap open for an indefinite or years long period? Also, I wish I lived under a rock - bat cave living sounds pretty nice, probably save a bundle on heating and cooling costs. Anyway, 20% premine is pretty bold move. You can say what you want about Monero, but they have managed to retain the top spot among privacy coins without any premine. Zcash has an effective 10% premine, maybe 13-18% depending how you weight their taking 20% in first four years. This isn't 2014 and I understand premines have become somewhat more acceptable in the age of ICO-scams and its aftermath, but I think there is probably a strong overlap between folks interested in privacy coins and those interested in a fair launch. Maybe I'm wrong, we shall see. I can't speak for the team on their decisions but how do you see an indefinite swap every working? It wouldn't make any sense as both would be tied to one price when they are completely different projects. Yeah I don't see the 20% premine as an issue, people now understand if you want proper development and world class developers that's what it takes and you’re getting it here in buckets full. Zano has been in development for years already to get here, that could extend to 5 Yr's if you include Zoidbergs time on Boolberry and even before that  Both projects will now have a team of developers working on them. FYI while Zano will retain all inherent benefits of cryptonote and its proven privacy, it's also faster more scalable and far more user friendly. I imagine the capability to have both dark and clear wallets will be a big plus with many(incl exch’s) too, that's not even going into the whole decentralized p2p ecommerce side Escrow, Multisig, easy to use Aliases and more so I don't see it as just a privacy coin. As for Monero managing to retain top spot among privacy coins without a premine, Monero didn't need a premine when they launched because it was a fork of technology already developed and at that time nobody apart from Zoidberg could get their head round it.  Even Monero have a funding model in place now, which I don't think is ideal but my point is good development costs. |
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CryptoGirl.y
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April 22, 2019, 05:26:15 AM |
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RX-470 with 4GB RAM issue 1450kh/s in the miner WildRig 0.10.5. This is normal?
Maybe there is a better miner today for this algorithm?
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tbearhere
Legendary
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Activity: 3136
Merit: 1003
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April 22, 2019, 11:05:01 AM |
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RX-470 with 4GB RAM issue 1450kh/s in the miner WildRig 0.10.5. This is normal?
Maybe there is a better miner today for this algorithm?
That's average for that card. No new mining apps that I know of. |
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cloudboy
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April 22, 2019, 06:26:29 PM |
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Zano mainnet opening price predictions? $100 million Market cap?
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crypto_zoidberg (OP)
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April 22, 2019, 09:51:20 PM |
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What's happening with the swapped bbr? Are they destroyed, or changing the owner?
Swapped BBRs physically sent to zero keys, which means it's burned. |
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crypto_zoidberg (OP)
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April 22, 2019, 10:26:19 PM |
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......
Lol so prickly. What is the argument for not just keeping 1:1 swap open for an indefinite or years long period? Also, I wish I lived under a rock - bat cave living sounds pretty nice, probably save a bundle on heating and cooling costs. Anyway, 20% premine is pretty bold move. You can say what you want about Monero, but they have managed to retain the top spot among privacy coins without any premine. Zcash has an effective 10% premine, maybe 13-18% depending how you weight their taking 20% in first four years. This isn't 2014 and I understand premines have become somewhat more acceptable in the age of ICO-scams and its aftermath, but I think there is probably a strong overlap between folks interested in privacy coins and those interested in a fair launch. Maybe I'm wrong, we shall see. Hi jwinterm! First of all - thank you for your interest to my work! Regarding premine just want to mention - you never know how the current leader of Monero would launch this project(if he had a chance), because as you know Monero was not launched by him. I mean - it was given without premine, and it was taken "as is" - with the running network, with the cryptography, with codebase, with the privacy philosophy. So, I wouldn't put this as good an example for comparing. |
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jwinterm
Legendary
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Activity: 3024
Merit: 1105
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April 23, 2019, 12:04:24 AM |
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......
Lol so prickly. What is the argument for not just keeping 1:1 swap open for an indefinite or years long period? Also, I wish I lived under a rock - bat cave living sounds pretty nice, probably save a bundle on heating and cooling costs. Anyway, 20% premine is pretty bold move. You can say what you want about Monero, but they have managed to retain the top spot among privacy coins without any premine. Zcash has an effective 10% premine, maybe 13-18% depending how you weight their taking 20% in first four years. This isn't 2014 and I understand premines have become somewhat more acceptable in the age of ICO-scams and its aftermath, but I think there is probably a strong overlap between folks interested in privacy coins and those interested in a fair launch. Maybe I'm wrong, we shall see. Hi jwinterm! First of all - thank you for your interest to my work! Regarding premine just want to mention - you never know how the current leader of Monero would launch this project(if he had a chance), because as you know Monero was not launched by him. I mean - it was given without premine, and it was taken "as is" - with the running network, with the cryptography, with codebase, with the privacy philosophy. So, I wouldn't put this as good an example for comparing. Given that Monero was always seen as Boolberry's closest "competitor" or whatever, I think it's the most apt comparison, especially since this appears to be Boolberry_v2. What do you see as the more appropriate comparison? Anyway, I just think 20% is a lot, especially since I assume that 20% could then be compounded via staking, but I guess if you're going to do a premine you might as well not do it half-assed. |
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gigabyted
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April 23, 2019, 12:22:40 AM
Last edit: April 23, 2019, 01:35:15 AM by mprep |
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......
Lol so prickly. What is the argument for not just keeping 1:1 swap open for an indefinite or years long period? Also, I wish I lived under a rock - bat cave living sounds pretty nice, probably save a bundle on heating and cooling costs. Anyway, 20% premine is pretty bold move. You can say what you want about Monero, but they have managed to retain the top spot among privacy coins without any premine. Zcash has an effective 10% premine, maybe 13-18% depending how you weight their taking 20% in first four years. This isn't 2014 and I understand premines have become somewhat more acceptable in the age of ICO-scams and its aftermath, but I think there is probably a strong overlap between folks interested in privacy coins and those interested in a fair launch. Maybe I'm wrong, we shall see. Hi jwinterm! First of all - thank you for your interest to my work! Regarding premine just want to mention - you never know how the current leader of Monero would launch this project(if he had a chance), because as you know Monero was not launched by him. I mean - it was given without premine, and it was taken "as is" - with the running network, with the cryptography, with codebase, with the privacy philosophy. So, I wouldn't put this as good an example for comparing. Given that Monero was always seen as Boolberry's closest "competitor" or whatever, I think it's the most apt comparison, especially since this appears to be Boolberry_v2. What do you see as the more appropriate comparison? Anyway, I just think 20% is a lot, especially since I assume that 20% could then be compounded via staking, but I guess if you're going to do a premine you might as well not do it half-assed. Yeah i dont think he meant techwise thou, i believe he meant from a logistics perspective. Zano team worked for about 2 years over this code base, while monero inherited a tech that was already developped by another group. Also to me the percentage aint THAT important, its important based on what it represent. Lets compare a 10% of a coin that launch at a 50M$ and a 20% over another coin that launch at 5M$. From a sustainable perspective, team needs a % high enough to cover operation cost based on some hypothethical short/middle term valuation. I mean if team knew this would worth 50M$ in 6 months from now, im sure they wouldnt need 20% (10M$), its all about short/middle term valuation. Aim to low you gonna starve aim to high you gonna afraid investors and could also break trust if valuation is high and premine % is too high. I see it as a safe bet and im sure team could reconsider if this easily cover operation costs...
For me what is really wrong is a 4 team member project raising 10M$ at launch of mainnet, cought veriblock... Unless they wanted to last 15 years over that pile of cash! |
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