Athiest are the ultimate free thinker?

[michaelkelly8798]

Someone needs some science classes. Posting formulas won't make you look clever, eveyone knows Einstein's formula. Understand you can't get 1 as a result from adding just zeros. No matter how many zeros you add the result is going to be always ZERO. You can't create something from nothing. Math is strictly attached to reality when will you realize that?

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John 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.>>

[michaelkelly8798]

Thousands of years ago written and no inconsistencies found. Your science is wrong, real science doesn't contradict science.

[michaelkelly8798]

BTW I was not talking about thermodynamics but mass conservation LAW.

[ATMD]

Well, the Big Bang was a singularity of sorts, if not in space then certainly in time.

"Space" had no meaning at that moment. Let's say a way to understand it is that there were no dimensions. Length, width, height had no meaning.

In scientific phrases, that's not INCONSISTANT with your comment, if it is revised to the correct form, including both matter and energy thusly...

E=MC^2

PS: I shouldn't have cut you that much slack, sitting her watching a b grade movie about aliens taking over and humans fighting, and giving you about 1% of my attention. You are just plain wrong.

It's energy that's never created or destroyed. Not matter. The proof is in the equation. But it could run considerably deeper than that, and energy may not be conserved.

But what's all that to a good Christian?

Please continue this proof of the big bang, I would like to read it.

Yes, this world did come from pretty much nothing. It was all compressed into pretty much nothing before the Big Bang.

I agree that this world used to be nothing, but I find it difficult to believe that it could spontaneously come into existence by itself. I believe that God created it from nothing.

[tvbcof]

I'm an atheist and many of my friends and family are also.  I can assure you that very very few of them are 'free thinkers', though it is not uncommon for them to believe they are, and sometimes by virtue of their atheism itself.
...

Hi tvbcof, I'm honored to read a comment like yours, you are someone who is very honest, and able to admit reality even when it is not playing on his side. I respect you are an atheist even though I don't approve it. I was born with a different religion, but I was bold enough to recognize what I believed was wrong. But man, I'm curious, how did you become an atheist? Were you born an atheist or did you come to the conclusion yourself there was no God? Because I can tell you I have 100% certainty there is a God. I'm not telling this just out of faith don't get me wrong. We can have a friendly discussion you can pm me if you like.

I don't mind doing up publicly if anyone cares.

I'm probably an atheist for several main reasons.  1) brain wiring, and 2) I was from an 'atheist family' so to speak.

What I've come to believe rather recently is that even if someone is an atheist they still grew up an environment shaped by the prominent religion there-of, and usually it had a significant influence on them.  Shrieks to the contrary, the U.S. actually is, or at least until recently was, a 'Christian Nation' for all intents and purposes, and my own ethics were to a noticeable degree shaped by this fact.  That suites me fine because as I study things I come to the conclusion that many of the messages ascribed to the teachings of Jesus Christ were among the most noble devised by mankind anywhere.  It's fun to troll the modern American peeps with such a message since it really gets under some of their skin, but it also happens to be the truth...as I currently see it.  And as I always say, it's almost impossible to do a good troll without saying the truth since that is what makes it good.  And effective.

I would also say that some people call themselves 'atheist' because they don't fit into one of the 'big [int]' religions.  When they say 'but I am spiritual', they are not 'atheist' in my opinion.  Not even 'agnostic'.  In the West at least they are usually kabbalahists/luciferians more closely related to modern Judaism than anything else, but usually the don't know it.  That's what all this new-age weirdness is all about as I see it.  Molding the masses in anticipation of a hoped-for 'turning.'  And doing a bang-up job of it to my consternation.

[Spendulus]

....

Abbreviated to actual content.

You've so far, said four or five things that were untrue, dodged real issues a number of times, and topped it off with a bunch of emotional and juvenile attempts at insults.

This is not the behavior of one who should imitate Christ.

How about let's have a real miracle here, and you see the light?

[michaelkelly8798]

I'm an atheist and many of my friends and family are also.  I can assure you that very very few of them are 'free thinkers', though it is not uncommon for them to believe they are, and sometimes by virtue of their atheism itself.
...

Hi tvbcof, I'm honored to read a comment like yours, you are someone who is very honest, and able to admit reality even when it is not playing on his side. I respect you are an atheist even though I don't approve it. I was born with a different religion, but I was bold enough to recognize what I believed was wrong. But man, I'm curious, how did you become an atheist? Were you born an atheist or did you come to the conclusion yourself there was no God? Because I can tell you I have 100% certainty there is a God. I'm not telling this just out of faith don't get me wrong. We can have a friendly discussion you can pm me if you like.

I don't mind doing up publicly if anyone cares.

I'm probably an atheist for several main reasons.  1) brain wiring, and 2) I was from an 'atheist family' so to speak.

What I've come to believe rather recently is that even if someone is an atheist they still grew up an environment shaped by the prominent religion there-of, and usually it had a significant influence on them.  Shrieks to the contrary, the U.S. actually is, or at least until recently was, a 'Christian Nation' for all intents and purposes, and my own ethics were to a noticeable degree shaped by this fact.  That suites me fine because as I study things I come to the conclusion that many of the messages ascribed to the teachings of Jesus Christ were among the most noble devised by mankind anywhere.  It's fun to troll the modern American peeps with such a message since it really gets under some of their skin, but it also happens to be the truth...as I currently see it.  And as I always say, it's almost impossible to do a good troll without saying the truth since that is what makes it good.  And effective.

I would also say that some people call themselves 'atheist' because they don't fit into one of the 'big [int]' religions.  When they say 'but I am spiritual', they are not 'atheist' in my opinion.  Not even 'agnostic'.  In the West at least they are usually kabbalahists/luciferians more closely related to modern Judaism than anything else, but usually the don't know it.  That's what all this new-age weirdness is all about as I see it.  Molding the masses in anticipation of a hoped-for 'turning.'  And doing a bang-up job of it to my consternation.

You seem like a person who's read a lot, what you say makes a lot of sense. The teachings of Jesus definitely were definitely very noble, the prophets of the Jews prophesized and described Jesus death and life but most of Jews don't know that. Read Psalm 22 as an example and you will see how mind blowing it is. Today's Jews believe the book of Psalms is real yet don't believe in Jesus. Please read it yourself and tell me if you think that can be faked. Jesus is more than just the representation of righteousness and a good ideology, He really was the son of God. Read Isaias 53. This will blow your mind.

[michaelkelly8798]

....

Abbreviated to actual content.

You've so far, said four or five things that were untrue, dodged real issues a number of times, and topped it off with a bunch of emotional and juvenile attempts at insults.

This is not the behavior of one who should imitate Christ.

How about let's have a real miracle here, and you see the light?

Christ himself spoke like that against pharisees, I'm very sorry if I sounded too rude while defending a point but I in anyway have insulted you. I ask you for an apology though.

[michaelkelly8798]

I recognize conversation tone got a little out of control, my bad.

[Spendulus]

BTW I was not talking about thermodynamics but mass conservation LAW.

Well, what does it matter to you what the facts are? We're not debating whether the Earth is six thousand years old, or other crackpot stuff. You simply didn't know the subject when I commented on things reducing to "pretty much nothing," and sought to change the subject and so forth.

There's no need to bring thermo in, or mass conservation, they have little relation to this subject. It would take some study to get it. It's easier just to toss out a few quotes from the Tower of Biblical, right?

[michaelkelly8798]

We can debate both the Bible or science, I'm just saying matter cant be created or destroyed that's all that;s a law of physics. What do you mean I didn't know the subject?

[bones261]

We can debate both the Bible or science, I'm just saying matter cant be created or destroyed that's all that;s a law of physics. What do you mean I didn't know the subject?

Matter is created and destroyed all of the time. A highly energetic photon can create a matter/antimatter pair. Likewise a matter/antimatter pair can annihilate each other to create a photon. Furthermore, a proton can be converted into a neutron by emitting a positron and a neutrino via the weak force. The positron is then usually annihilated quickly by encountering a electron. This creates a gamma ray photon. The latter process that I explained is what is keeping the sun going.. In the end, the mass of a alpha particle (which is basically the nucleus of a helium 4 atom) is actually less than the four protons that were fused to create it and the two electrons annihilated. The mass is converted into the energy of the two gamma photons created when two of the protons were converted to the neutrons.


Edit:It appears the proton-proton chain is a little more complicated than I inferred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction  However, in the end, you do get matter/antimatter being created and destroyed and mass being converted into energy.

[Spendulus]

We can debate both the Bible or science, I'm just saying matter cant be created or destroyed that's all that;s a law of physics. What do you mean I didn't know the subject?

I mean what I said, no big deal. It's not really the thing you came to discuss, although it's not exactly a detour.

For example, the Big Bang was not a gigantic version of a black hole, rather all space simultaneously shrinking to a singularity. Whether that was infinite space or finite, but that's a side issue. The reason is that at the moment the universe shrunk to a singularity, measurements could not exist. Terms like length and width did not exist and could not. Therefore, I summarized in the prior post "pretty much nothing." There's also an issue of time.

So you see? It was "pretty much nothing."



Certainly a religious person could attribute that to the creation of everything from nothing. Science does not ATTRIBUTE causation, it's unnecessary. Also there is zero ability to prove such causation, if you think about it.

But as I previously noted, religion is about belief/faith, not facts and evidence. This is laid out explicitly in your bible. That is why I criticized the searching and posting of miracles and made note of how many times they are simply scams.

[tvbcof]

...

I would also say that some people call themselves 'atheist' because they don't fit into one of the 'big [int]' religions.  When they say 'but I am spiritual', they are not 'atheist' in my opinion.  Not even 'agnostic'.  In the West at least they are usually kabbalahists/luciferians more closely related to modern Judaism than anything else, but usually the don't know it.  That's what all this new-age weirdness is all about as I see it.  Molding the masses in anticipation of a hoped-for 'turning.'  And doing a bang-up job of it to my consternation.

You seem like a person who's read a lot, what you say makes a lot of sense. The teachings of Jesus definitely were definitely very noble, the prophets of the Jews prophesized and described Jesus death and life but most of Jews don't know that. Read Psalm 22 as an example and you will see how mind blowing it is. Today's Jews believe the book of Psalms is real yet don't believe in Jesus. Please read it yourself and tell me if you think that can be faked. Jesus is more than just the representation of righteousness and a good ideology, He really was the son of God. Read Isaias 53. This will blow your mind.

I've yet to sit down and actually study the Bible or any other religious text of antiquity.  It's on my list of things to do, but it's a fairly big undertaking...and I don't read to good.

I will say that people do pull some jaw-dropping things out of both the Bible and the Talmud on regular basis.  I enjoy these things a lot.  The reason the Babylonian Talmud stuff interests me is because it is clearly a driving force in my country (the U.S.) at the moment.  We will probably have Kushner as president fairly soon, and that husband/wife team are Chabad-Lubavitch who take the most objectionable things out of the Talmud and run with them.  Run hard.  The unabashed ethnic supremacy of these folks is staggering and as a goy I'm not real comfortable being under their thumb.  Did you know that all of us goyim who ever lived are not even as valuable as the fingernail of any Jew?   The last Lubavitcher Rebbe, who's grave Jared and Ivanka went to pray for the Donald to win POTUS at, said as much.

Rabbinical Jews will say that it is impossible to read the Talmud as a non-believing Goyim and one needs a lifetime of study to understand it.  Bullshit!  The stuff is as clear as a bell (if it is not invented of whole cloth by anti-semites) and it is also clear why Jesus stood up against them and why some of the Jews hold a grudge against the guy to this day.

There are a lot of itemized excuses for this and that in the Babylonian Talmud.  Trouble is, the concepts outlined in the Talmud explain the behavior of the zionists toward Palestinians (and every other group of goyim for that matter) that we see every day to a tee.  The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Turns out that being distinctly NOT an ethic supremacist is a good way to gain a world-wide following which is what happened with Christ and Christianity by the looks of things.  Who would have thunk it?  Only some real idiot goyim will follow these ethnic supremacists with their '7 Noahide laws' and the rest of their bullshit.  That's the evangelical flock these days.  Not the mega-church pastors of course.  They are obviously on the dole and are very likely hard-core Lucifarians anyway.

[Initscri]

TBH, I think most atheists are probably more agnostic than atheist.

Atheism is a firm belief that no god exists (it's almost a belief in itself), where-as agnostic is sort of undecided/uncaring/not knowing. I feel like most people get those confused.

[michaelkelly8798]

We can debate both the Bible or science, I'm just saying matter cant be created or destroyed that's all that;s a law of physics. What do you mean I didn't know the subject?

Matter is created and destroyed all of the time. A highly energetic photon can create a matter/antimatter pair. Likewise a matter/antimatter pair can annihilate each other to create a photon. Furthermore, a proton can be converted into a neutron by emitting a positron and a neutrino via the weak force. The positron is then usually annihilated quickly by encountering a electron. This creates a gamma ray photon. The latter process that I explained is what is keeping the sun going.. In the end, the mass of a alpha particle (which is basically the nucleus of a helium 4 atom) is actually less than the four protons that were fused to create it and the two electrons annihilated. The mass is converted into the energy of the two gamma photons created when two of the protons were converted to the neutrons.


Edit:It appears the proton-proton chain is a little more complicated than I inferred. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction  However, in the end, you do get matter/antimatter being created and destroyed and mass being converted into energy.

"The law of conservation of matter or principle of matter conservation states that the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes over time, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves.

The mass can neither be created nor destroyed."

[michaelkelly8798]

...

I would also say that some people call themselves 'atheist' because they don't fit into one of the 'big [int]' religions.  When they say 'but I am spiritual', they are not 'atheist' in my opinion.  Not even 'agnostic'.  In the West at least they are usually kabbalahists/luciferians more closely related to modern Judaism than anything else, but usually the don't know it.  That's what all this new-age weirdness is all about as I see it.  Molding the masses in anticipation of a hoped-for 'turning.'  And doing a bang-up job of it to my consternation.

You seem like a person who's read a lot, what you say makes a lot of sense. The teachings of Jesus definitely were definitely very noble, the prophets of the Jews prophesized and described Jesus death and life but most of Jews don't know that. Read Psalm 22 as an example and you will see how mind blowing it is. Today's Jews believe the book of Psalms is real yet don't believe in Jesus. Please read it yourself and tell me if you think that can be faked. Jesus is more than just the representation of righteousness and a good ideology, He really was the son of God. Read Isaias 53. This will blow your mind.

I've yet to sit down and actually study the Bible or any other religious text of antiquity.  It's on my list of things to do, but it's a fairly big undertaking...and I don't read to good.

I will say that people do pull some jaw-dropping things out of both the Bible and the Talmud on regular basis.  I enjoy these things a lot.  The reason the Babylonian Talmud stuff interests me is because it is clearly a driving force in my country (the U.S.) at the moment.  We will probably have Kushner as president fairly soon, and that husband/wife team are Chabad-Lubavitch who take the most objectionable things out of the Talmud and run with them.  Run hard.  The unabashed ethnic supremacy of these folks is staggering and as a goy I'm not real comfortable being under their thumb.  Did you know that all of us goyim who ever lived are not even as valuable as the fingernail of any Jew?   The last Lubavitcher Rebbe, who's grave Jared and Ivanka went to pray for the Donald to win POTUS at, said as much.

Rabbinical Jews will say that it is impossible to read the Talmud as a non-believing Goyim and one needs a lifetime of study to understand it.  Bullshit!  The stuff is as clear as a bell (if it is not invented of whole cloth by anti-semites) and it is also clear why Jesus stood up against them and why some of the Jews hold a grudge against the guy to this day.

There are a lot of itemized excuses for this and that in the Babylonian Talmud.  Trouble is, the concepts outlined in the Talmud explain the behavior of the zionists toward Palestinians (and every other group of goyim for that matter) that we see every day to a tee.  The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Turns out that being distinctly NOT an ethic supremacist is a good way to gain a world-wide following which is what happened with Christ and Christianity by the looks of things.  Who would have thunk it?  Only some real idiot goyim will follow these ethnic supremacists with their '7 Noahide laws' and the rest of their bullshit.  That's the evangelical flock these days.  Not the mega-church pastors of course.  They are obviously on the dole and are very likely hard-core Lucifarians anyway.

I haven't read the talmud, as far as I'm concerned there's diabolic stuff in there, other gods other than the God of the Bible, I wouldn't bother reading something like that. Did you read the verses I pointed out to you? This will prove Christianity was more than a new doctrine. It proves the Bible is more than just a book because it predicts events in the future that happen exactly as described. It describes events that were out of the hands of Jesus himself to fulfill in case you are believing the books of the new testament are just inventions. This is prophesied in the books of the Jews (Torah) even though most of them don't consider Jesus as the Messiah.

[Spendulus]

... "The law of conservation of matter or principle of matter conservation states that the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes over time, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves.

The mass can neither be created nor destroyed."

That's from classical physics. You must account today for general relativity and quantum physics, resulting a the e=mc^2 equation and hold that the sum of mass and energy are thus related and bound in a closed system.

[ATMD]

... "The law of conservation of matter or principle of matter conservation states that the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes over time, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves.

The mass can neither be created nor destroyed."

That's from classical physics. You must account today for general relativity and quantum physics, resulting a the e=mc^2 equation and hold that the sum of mass and energy are thus related and bound in a closed system.

In the beginning there was no energy, no mass, no matter etc. Where did all this energy come from?

[Spendulus]

... "The law of conservation of matter or principle of matter conservation states that the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes over time, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves.

The mass can neither be created nor destroyed."

That's from classical physics. You must account today for general relativity and quantum physics, resulting a the e=mc^2 equation and hold that the sum of mass and energy are thus related and bound in a closed system.

In the beginning there was no energy, no mass, no matter etc. Where did all this energy come from?

This is not what the "Big Bang theory" asserts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe#Planck_epoch

Rather it considers there to be a transition from such things being "undefined" to their being "defined as energy, mass, etc."

"Undefined" is not "no energy, no mass." It is different than say the quantity 0. "Time" does not exist either, so there is no "before" and no "after."

Science does not have questions to ask of "undefined." As an example, take the case where the universe has shrunk to a single point, a singularity, and ask, "How big is that point?"

That is nonsense, of course. Science would ignore that issue (although as I have noted the words used in your question formulate a cause and effect scenario that has no meaning when "undefined" is taken into account. Thus, science may influence religious thought by improving phraseology, but excepting that it will not address the question you pose of "original causation."