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Author Topic: Massive abuse in the Russian section.  (Read 4099 times)
MaoChao
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January 17, 2019, 02:16:26 PM
 #41

snip
Distrust all users only because they posts in thread that you can't even read properly? Well done.
I never include or exclude from my trust-network only because someone advise me that.

Meanwhile nobody (who can change trust to red) cares about hundreds of russian farmers who make tons of shitposting and send merit each other.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5052292.msg49246205#msg49246205
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095568.msg49229368#msg49229368
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095568.msg49179640#msg49179640
etc.
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January 17, 2019, 02:18:32 PM
 #42

Indeed. I think he meant that xandry as a somewhat more reputable member and staff member should have pointed this out to the rest of us.
Post in Meta or talk to other mods those are expected actions of a person of responsibility. I do think the ~Defaulttrust user should of been banned and post removed though - that is shoddy as hell leaving that there - what if It actually worked?
Indeed. I've confirmed with theymos that it can't work and that you need to escape the exclusion character to trust a prefixed (~) username. The account should have been nuked and the registration of such accounts disabled.

snip
Distrust all users only because they posts in thread that you can't even read properly? Well done.
We had a good approximation of what was actually written in there. I don't need to be able to read the original if the approximation is good.

Right, and you've contacted people about this how many times? Tagging zero merit newbies that are only shitposters is pointless because:
1) DT members try to avoid tagging someone solely because they are a shitposter (theymoses 'rule').
2) It's a waste of time.

People who make these reports should separately report groups where there is no merit and where merit is being abused.

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January 17, 2019, 02:19:22 PM
 #43

~snip~

not all users - please do not deflect as it is a shitty tactic

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January 17, 2019, 02:24:10 PM
 #44

no you didn't do what you should - and you read in detail as you quoted a post then added your thoughts.
stop lying about this, there is obvious blatant collusion after the 14th when your "comrade" was excluded - then mob rule came along, some scammer tried to break the whole of DT with ~defaulttrust and I still see that now - why no ban? why no tag?
you are not suitable to do this job, god knows what else goes on in that section. And no I am not racist or whatever else you want to say, I was one of the members who added Alex_SR onto DT.
TBH I wouldn't want moderators to start removing posts on topics like that or otherwise interfering in trust system matters. We're supposed to police ourselves. I'll be excluding some of the obviously unsuitable members, even if they're not malicious but merely misguided. That's all we really need to do. The attempts to game the system are fully expected and even if that thread didn't exist it could still happen via PMs, telegram, etc so we better be ready and check and re-check those DT1/2 newbie lists.
Indeed. I think he meant that xandry as a somewhat more reputable member and staff member should have pointed this out to the rest of us.
This was my translation too. Well done brother TMAN

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January 17, 2019, 02:28:47 PM
 #45

Hey, look at our profiles. There is no shitposting, no bounty, no pyramids of Cheops. We came here for knowledge.

Knowledge comrade, once you have the knowledge you have the power?

Merit farming, Trust farming and collusion to disrupt DT..

but that's ok, as you don't start pyramid schemes and you don't shitpost? listen here Ivan it don't work like that.

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January 17, 2019, 02:44:58 PM
 #46

Hey, look at our profiles. There is no shitposting, no bounty, no pyramids of Cheops. We came here for knowledge.

Knowledge comrade, once you have the knowledge you have the power?

Merit farming, Trust farming and collusion to disrupt DT..

but that's ok, as you don't start pyramid schemes and you don't shitpost? listen here Ivan it don't work like that.
there's no collusion, you idiots Grin. We just responded to the call for help so that we have a representative with specific knowledge of the Russian locale. Your tantrum reminds me of this trial. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYJZqJezjz4

do you recognize yourself as a Prosecutor?

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January 17, 2019, 02:45:03 PM
 #47

(work in progress)

They are all cool at the start, skip to the 14th to experience the sand in vagina quotes

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January 17, 2019, 02:45:57 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2019, 03:01:43 PM by peloso
 #48


He's willing to overthrow several thousand ratings on scammers in order to get "strength". If that isn't a sign of malice and collusion, I don't know what is. Naturally, he's also a (caught) merit abuser. So far I have only tagged him, but it is likely that more users deserve it.


LOOOL Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy lauda you so stupid  Grin Grin and your dogs also stupid tman and other dogs)
you tagged me))) i so happy
SCAMMER lauda tagged me Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin that do funny

hey lauda! i didnt abused trust system Smiley i abused your ass Cheesy
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January 17, 2019, 02:46:21 PM
 #49

xenon131 - seems to think that anyone not explicitly trusted by theymos is a "manipulator":
By the way, if you want to see whom theymos trusts, remove the DefaultTrust entry from your field and add only theymos and nothing more. Click Update. (this can be done with respect to any member of the community) Then Depth 1 will show a list of people he trusts himself. And there is NO one of his algorithm. This means that the existing DT1 is created (by an algorithm) by manipulating a certain group of the community, while all others are / are in the dark.
And this "manipulation" sentiment is echoed throughout the thread as one of the reasons to vote Russians into DT1.

We are not abusing anything. Just spreading the word about changes in trust system.

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January 17, 2019, 03:05:43 PM
 #50

(work in progress)

They are all cool at the start, skip to the 14th to experience the sand in vagina quotes

I only read russian with google translate but have to admit there is something shitty in the thread.

They do seem to talk like a mafia.
"What do we do now that we have a DT1"
"Let's all team up to get those ones down"
"Let's all trust this one so he reaches DT1"

But is it against the rules? Not so sure...
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January 17, 2019, 03:10:56 PM
Merited by TheNewAnon135246 (10), xenon131 (10), Foxpup (4), EFS (3), PuertoLibre (3), bones261 (2), xandry (1), LoyceV (1), TheFuzzStone (1), madnessteat (1), DabLjat (1)
 #51

TMAN, you're coming across as a real asshole here. AFAICT, that topic is highly analogous to the English discussions. The main addition is that they're looking to get more local representation in DT1, which is very reasonable. I'd prefer if people not treat trust lists as an election, but if I had wanted nobody to ever think/talk/strategize about how trust lists affect DT1 selection, I would've kept the DT1 criteria secret.

They quickly found a quote from me where I previously documented that usernames starting with tildes are handled:
"If you want to trust someone whose name begins with a tilde, prefix their name with a backslash."   тe ecли вы xoтитe выcкaзaть дoвepиe юзepy ~XXX  в cвoй cпиcoк пpямoгo дoвepия зaпишитe \~XXX, ecли жe вы xoтитe выcкaзaть eмy нeдoвepиe зaпишитe ~\~XXX.
So they knew right away that the ~DefaultTrust account was harmless.

I see nothing concerning with xandry's actions there. Nothing there comes close to warranting deletion. Even if someone was openly talking about trying to form a strategic DT1 manipulation group for the express purpose of undermining the system, such a topic should not be deleted; rather, I'd look to handle this within the DT1 selection criteria.

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January 17, 2019, 03:14:15 PM
 #52

not all users - please do not deflect as it is a shitty tactic
Sorry, I mean all users who participated in thread. Bad English.

People who make these reports should separately report groups where there is no merit and where merit is being abused.
okay, but it is not obvious for user who just try to make local board a little cleaner, isn't it? Merit abuse and hundreds of posts with low value from farmers it's same shit for me.

We had a good approximation of what was actually written in there.
According what you did, you had not.


So far I'm just on page 2 and it seems that there is a lack of understanding (to put it mildly) as to what the trust system is supposed to do.
У пoльзoвaтeлeй явнo пpocлeживaютcя paзличныe интepпpeтaции тpacтa. Пoдeлюcь cвoeй.
Tpacт ≠ peпyтaция ≠ лaйки
У пoльзoвaтeля мoжeт oтcyтcтвoвaть фopyмнaя peпyтaция, нo вы мoжeтe eмy дoвepять (нaпpимep y вac бoльшaя иcтopия cдeлoк c ним). Фaктичecки, ecли я кpaшy пoльзoвaтeлю тpacт в зeлeный цвeт, тo пoлoжитeльнo oтвeчaю нa yтвepждeниe "Я дoвepяю этoмy пoльзoвaтeлю финaнcoвыe cpeдcтвa (мoгy внecти пpeдoплaтy/oплaтy), пepeд тeм кaк пoлyчить oт нeгo пpoдyкт или ycлyгy".
Translation:
As I see users have different interpretations of the trust system. My interpretation:
Trust ≠ reputation ≠ likes
The user may not have a forum reputation, but you can trust him (for example, you have a large history of finance deals with him). In fact, if I paint user trust to green, I respond positively to the statement “I trust this user my finance (I send money first) before I receive a product or service from him”.

Now tell me what's wrong with my interpretation?

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January 17, 2019, 03:15:05 PM
 #53

TMAN, you're coming across as a real asshole here.

Fair point, but I feel as I had added Alex to my trust list (aware he was Russian and those guys needed rep) I was pretty pissed at that thread and the blatant manipulation going on there.

and I didn't ask for the thread to be deleted - please quote me where I did? I asked for action by the Mod - none has happened as he has admitted, if you think that is cool - then who am I to say, its your show fella

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mdayonliner
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January 17, 2019, 03:17:56 PM
 #54

TMAN, you're coming across as a real asshole here.
Ops! Language LOL

Good to see that you do leave your comment is in forum politics. I thought you never cared unless there are any direct interest for you like Alia LOL


its your show fella
And we are the puppets?

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January 17, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3)
 #55

Now tell me what's wrong with my interpretation?

I wasn't referring to you specifically but to stuff like this:

I also have a personal list of pleasant people (I have no enemies), and the other day, I will leave all of them with trust + comments, why I left such a trust.

This behavior will NOT be considered a violation of the rules.

I'm also concerned by the lack of distinction between trust ratings and trust lists. This needs to be understood very well by DT1 members in particular so I'll be excluding users who don't seem to get it.

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January 17, 2019, 03:40:38 PM
 #56

~snip~

Dear TMAN, I'm curious why did you decide that I am with someone in collusion? In this topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.0 we just share our DT0 lists. Who do you think I can trust, if most of the information I get from the Russian thread? I believe that you made a mistake with your knowledge of the Russian language!

Here is the translation of my messages, sorry for my English:

Added to my list of theymos and you, because I think what do you bring to the forum a favor. Later I will add some more users, there is still need to think. Thanks for the clarification.

I'm a loner here and I don't want any war, and I don't want its consequences to affect me. Never copy-paste someone else posts (or interpretation or attached link), but shakes every written post, because the forum is very centralized. And" pull the tongue " can anyone who interferes.  Radically changed his attitude to the forum over the past few months. I think that the recent changes that allow everyone to configure their trust list, and thus affect the DT1 list, should have a positive impact on the forum.
Here is my list confidence (supplement gradually):
Code:
theymos
minerjones
MaoChao
LoyceV
TheFuzzStone
xenon131
Xal0lex
chimk
Alex_Sr
taikuri13

While most forum users will not remove DefaultTrust from your DT0 and will not be your own, it will be difficult to change the list of DT1. Users with a rank below Member, having configured their DT0, are not able to affect the DT1 list in any way.

If we take the algorithm that works now-I can not understand how many users at the moment will affect these lists.
I mean, what if most of the participants of the forum will remain in the old system, i.e. will not remove DefaultTrust and will not create their lists DT0, the priority by the number of votes will receive the old members of the DT1, which is selected by default. Please correct if I misunderstand something.



One there is a list of DT1 and DT2 on 08.01.2019 year?
Put it here, please. Want to count

Found only for December 5, 2018 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5080581.0

I was removed from DT1 list
Now Lauda's company will be there for a long time. They understand that if they do not stick together, they may lose their "spray paint".

As I expected, I also fell under the knives of this meat grinder. On the one hand it scares me a little, but on the other it pleases me. Please note that I have not added anyone to my list of DT0 with ~.  Grin

 
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January 17, 2019, 03:52:32 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2019, 05:15:28 PM by suchmoon
Merited by xenon131 (2), xtraelv (1), madnessteat (1), Kriptopsina (1)
 #57

I'm going through the Russian thread and checking users who posted or have been mentioned there. It seems that there is a lack of understanding (to put it mildly) as to what the trust system is supposed to do, particularly the differences between trust ratings and trust lists.



DabLjat (the OP) - on Jan 14 briefly appeared in DT2 and immediately sent a number of positive trusts to the members of own trust list. On Jan 16 sent many negatives to an account farm. Wants a Russian person in DT1 for unknown/unspecified reason.



xenon131 - seems to think that anyone not explicitly trusted by theymos is a "manipulator":
By the way, if you want to see whom theymos trusts, remove the DefaultTrust entry from your field and add only theymos and nothing more. Click Update. (this can be done with respect to any member of the community) Then Depth 1 will show a list of people he trusts himself. And there is NO one of his algorithm. This means that the existing DT1 is created (by an algorithm) by manipulating a certain group of the community, while all others are / are in the dark.
And this "manipulation" sentiment is echoed throughout the thread as one of the reasons to vote Russians into DT1.



TheFuzzStone - less than a week didn't have a clue about the trust system and DT and how it works. This was also reflected in the thread this user later created in Meta.
I also have a personal list of pleasant people (I have no enemies), and the other day, I will leave all of them with trust + comments, why I left such a trust.

This behavior will NOT be considered a violation of the rules.



taikuri13 -  on Jan 14 briefly appeared in DT2 and immediately sent a number of positive trusts without references. Appears to have a better grasp of the trust system and DT1 selection than most other users in that thread. This is post #31 and probably the first mention of what xandry was referring to.
People said that it would be good to have the Russian-speaking person in DT to tag known scammers, account sellers and merit sellers, because many of victims don't speak English and they can't explain to DT them problems.
Therefore, of course, my hand does not rise to call this procedure “election”, because trust is a personal choice, everyone decides for himself whom he wants to trust and no one has the right to ask for your choice.

But just think, in the whole locale there are different people, with completely different goals. And to decide what kind of "color" will be, for example, a Russian-speaking cheater, or, on the contrary, a good and decent person - there will be people who know Russian using Google Translate.



peloso - appears to have cheated bounties - see favdesu's feedback. Appears to have traded trust and merits with alts or close acquaintances - see actmyname's feedback. Campaigning in DT1 voting.



chimk - seems to have a measured approach to the topic. Seems to think spammers need red trust. Has not left a single trust rating but there is talk of voting this user into DT1.



esmanthra - has not sent any trust ratings. Understands the trust system quite well and has posted a detailed explanation of it. A minor error I spotted:
In other words, if, for example, users in an amicable rush begin to make ~ Lauda records in their DT0, this will affect the position of Lauda in the DT1 list only if these users have a sufficient number of Merits (and that only after the next re-forming the list, for now the re-formation is not automatic).
AFAIK merits have no effect on exclusions.



(work in progress)



I would caution against judging these users on their tone or their rhetoric. Cultural difference is a real thing, and important nuances can get lost in translation. Let's focus more on the facts.

Overall it seems that the Russian board quickly went from having no DT members to voting someone into DT1 to having them excluded so there's some resentment but they still have a few DT2 members for the stated purpose of tagging local scammers etc. It doesn't look like they have a mature candidate for DT1 though. That's just my personal opinion.

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January 17, 2019, 04:03:31 PM
 #58

TMAN, you're coming across as a real asshole here.
RIP TMAN; but this is something that we all knew. Cheesy

People who make these reports should separately report groups where there is no merit and where merit is being abused.
okay, but it is not obvious for user who just try to make local board a little cleaner, isn't it? Merit abuse and hundreds of posts with low value from farmers it's same shit for me.
It isn't for you, which is why you should not be part of DT. I've tried suggesting that we should start tagging excessive spammers a long time ago, but it was ultimately rejected by theymos despite the support from many DT members.

We had a good approximation of what was actually written in there.
According what you did, you had not.
I do, and I stand by my tags (which were handed out only to two users that I've spotted in that thread).

It doesn't look like they have a mature candidate for DT1 though. That's just my personal opinion.
Given how hard it was to get added into DT2 up until recently, I'd even state that they almost have no mature candidates for that layer either. Nice analysis though.

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January 17, 2019, 04:03:35 PM
 #59


 
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January 17, 2019, 04:06:06 PM
 #60


peloso - appears to have cheated bounties - see favdesu's feedback. Appears to have traded trust and merits with alts or close acquaintances - see actmyname's feedback. Campaigning in DT1 voting.



you are dog of lauda you are lie
actmyname liye and favdesu use drugs ( hard drugs as lauda) lies too
all of you is liar mafia
may be i  cheat your mother's ass but  not remember
you say about boutny )) where ? and when?

why my exluded (~) lists is so stuped?
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