What about a non-violent forum protest over the Ponzis?

[Micon]

like we make 20x threads of

"PONZI'S ARE NOT GAMBLING.  MODS PLEASE MAKE A NEW SUB.  LEGITIMATE BITCOIN GAMBLING SITES ARE BEING HURT"

and bump the everyliving nuts out of them and make intelligent discussion over in /meta and try and get the mods to see we are pissed and these ponzi sites, with so many threads, are doing nothing less than ruining what was once a very tightly run and important forum for legitimate bitcoin gambling sites.  A shame all those eyeballs see nothing but Ponzi scams for the past few weeks.  Prolly turned off a bunch of gamblers.  Legit sites are the big losers in this.  -1 bitcoin image too.

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[notserp]

yep we got to do something

[zolace]

Tried for weeks but The Mods dont care

[FUR11]

Tried for weeks but The Mods dont care

Perhaps then it's time to get new mods? 

[Vortuarackne]

Tried for weeks but The Mods dont care

Perhaps then it's time to get new mods?  

What's wrong with the current mods - they dont agree with you? Well that seems like a good reason to get new ones!

These are ponzi-type games, not ponzis. If you dont like that type of gambling, dont participate.

[FUR11]

Tried for weeks but The Mods dont care

Perhaps then it's time to get new mods?  

What's wrong with the current mods - they dont agree with you? Well that seems like a good reason to get new ones!

These are ponzi-type games, not ponzis. If you dont like that type of gambling, dont participate.

Anyone can see that having ponzis litter the gambling forum is detrimental to the community.  If people have been harassing the mods for weeks to try to help clean it up, and they are unwilling/unable to do so, then my suggestion would be that instead of asking them for the 15th time, maybe it needs to go higher?

And no, these are ponzi schemes.  Saying "this is a ponzi" doesn't not make it a ponzi.  Here's how you can tell that something is a ponzi scheme: IF THE PERSON RUNNING IT SAYS THAT IT IS A PONZI SCHEME!

[flower1024]

And no, these are ponzi schemes.  Saying "this is a ponzi" doesn't not make it a ponzi.  Here's how you can tell that something is a ponzi scheme: IF THE PERSON RUNNING IT SAYS THAT IT IS A PONZI SCHEME!

the definition of ponzi does not say anything about the customer knowing it is one or not.
but: i think ponzis which are advertising themselves as gambling are ok. i have a problem with ponzis marketed as an investment

[spixel]

like we make 20x threads of

"PONZI'S ARE NOT GAMBLING.  MODS PLEASE MAKE A NEW SUB.  LEGITIMATE BITCOIN GAMBLING SITES ARE BEING HURT"

and bump the everyliving nuts out of them and make intelligent discussion over in /meta and try and get the mods to see we are pissed and these ponzi sites, with so many threads, are doing nothing less than ruining what was once a very tightly run and important forum for legitimate bitcoin gambling sites.  A shame all those eyeballs see nothing but Ponzi scams for the past few weeks.  Prolly turned off a bunch of gamblers.  Legit sites are the big losers in this.  -1 bitcoin image too.

Great, you're complaining about the gambling forum being flooded with ponzi threads.

Solution =

"20x threads of

"PONZI'S ARE NOT GAMBLING.  MODS PLEASE MAKE A NEW SUB.  LEGITIMATE BITCOIN GAMBLING SITES ARE BEING HURT"

and bump the everyliving nuts out of them


See the conflict?

[Light]

Great, you're complaining about the gambling forum being flooded with ponzi threads.

Solution =

"20x threads of

"PONZI'S ARE NOT GAMBLING.  MODS PLEASE MAKE A NEW SUB.  LEGITIMATE BITCOIN GAMBLING SITES ARE BEING HURT"

and bump the everyliving nuts out of them


See the conflict?

Clearly you do not understand the irony of his post. This is exactly what is happening with the gambling forum, it's no longer gambling but the ponzi forum. I don't have a problem with idiots throwing money away - I do have a problem when they are flooding the board and making it hard to find actual gambling sites and news.

[TheEmperor]

What's wrong with the current mods - they dont agree with you? Well that seems like a good reason to get new ones!

These are ponzi-type games, not ponzis. If you dont like that type of gambling, dont participate.

This is BS and you know it. Weather it's an actual ponzi or, as another one of you ponzi lovers put it, a 'skilled gambling game', so fucking what. The fact of the matter is the whole forum is spammed up with the word PONZI. Great advertisement for new members looking to get into Bitcoin. Your just fuelling the media's detrimental portrayal of Bitcoin and the community.

May as well just change the name to 'Last person in loses all their money with additional probability of getting scammed, game'.

[spixel]

Great, you're complaining about the gambling forum being flooded with ponzi threads.

Solution =

"20x threads of

"PONZI'S ARE NOT GAMBLING.  MODS PLEASE MAKE A NEW SUB.  LEGITIMATE BITCOIN GAMBLING SITES ARE BEING HURT"

and bump the everyliving nuts out of them


See the conflict?

Clearly you do not understand the irony of his post. This is exactly what is happening with the gambling forum, it's no longer gambling but the ponzi forum. I don't have a problem with idiots throwing money away - I do have a problem when they are flooding the board and making it hard to find actual gambling sites and news.

I looked on the 1st page of the gambling forum and I see 7 ponzi threads out of about 35 topics. And 2 threads of people complaining about ponzis.

Nobody is forcing you to use them, all the other threads are still there, and there's plenty of them. I guarantee you the ratio of those who dont mind the ponzi threads far outweights the 5 or 6 people who don't like them.

Flooding the forum with threads complaining about something you don't like is not a good idea though.

[Light]

This is BS and you know it. Weather it's an actual ponzi or, as another one of you ponzi lovers put it, a 'skilled gambling game', so fucking what. The fact of the matter is the whole forum is spammed up with the word PONZI. Great advertisement for new members looking to get into Bitcoin. Your just fuelling the media's detrimental portrayal of Bitcoin and the community.

May as well just change the name to 'Last person in loses all their money with additional probability of getting scammed, game'.

Of course it's just complete crap. That guy is a ponzi operator - what else did you expect a guy who is greedily greasing his pockets with schemes that are generally considered to be at least unethical if not illegal depending on what country your in to be saying.

[Light]

I looked on the 1st page of the gambling forum and I see 7 ponzi threads out of about 35 topics. And 2 threads of people complaining about ponzis.

Nobody is forcing you to use them, all the other threads are still there, and there's plenty of them. I guarantee you the ratio of those who dont mind the ponzi threads far outweights the 5 or 6 people who don't like them.

Flooding the forum with threads complaining about something you don't like is not a good idea though.

I'm going to refute your argument point by point.

1. It is irrelevant how many ponzi posts there are if they shouldn't be here. Having one piece of spam still deserves to be deleted just as a hundred posts of spam do. However, it is the extent of this ponzi spamming that has exacerbated the problem.

2. Doesn't mean they belong in this sub. Stick them in their own sub for all I care, just not in the actual gambling sub. If your willing to guarantee, put me up for a bet as to whether I can or cannot find 6 people who do not believe ponzis should be here.

3. Don't associate my dismissal of ponzis being in this sub, with the proposed actions of others. Let them speak for themselves, but I am not representative of them.

[spixel]

I looked on the 1st page of the gambling forum and I see 7 ponzi threads out of about 35 topics. And 2 threads of people complaining about ponzis.

Nobody is forcing you to use them, all the other threads are still there, and there's plenty of them. I guarantee you the ratio of those who dont mind the ponzi threads far outweights the 5 or 6 people who don't like them.

Flooding the forum with threads complaining about something you don't like is not a good idea though.

I'm going to refute your argument point by point.

1. It is irrelevant how many ponzi posts there are if they shouldn't be here. Having one piece of spam still deserves to be deleted just as a hundred posts of spam do. However, it is the extent of this ponzi spamming that has exacerbated the problem.

2. Doesn't mean they belong in this sub. Stick them in their own sub for all I care, just not in the actual gambling sub. If your willing to guarantee, put me up for a bet as to whether I can or cannot find 6 people who do not believe ponzis should be here.

3. Don't associate my dismissal of ponzis being in this sub, with the proposed actions of others. Let them speak for themselves, but I am not representative of them.

1. You said this which is what prompted me to say how many ponzi threads are on the 1st page -  "I don't have a problem with idiots throwing money away - I do have a problem when they are flooding the board and making it hard to find actual gambling sites and news."

2. It's just your opinion they are not gambling. In my opinion (and many others) it is gambling and clearly the moderators of the gambling forum agree.

3. Okay I don't see you complaining about this thread though? Why is it in the gambling forum when its nothing but a complaint, taking up space where a legit gambling thread could be.

[Light]

1. Please learn to read.

However, it is the extent of this ponzi spamming that has exacerbated the problem.

2. Moot point. Truth is relative can be used for any argument you like. Does not prevent me from voicing my opinion. If you would be so kind as to provide an actual quote where the mods actually state that they think ponzi's belong in this forum. Inaction is not indicative of anything - for all you know they could be considering what options they have. Hence, once again moot point.

3. I'm more than happy for this thread to be moved, it's simply a place for me to express my views. I didn't create the topic so don't ask me why it's in the gambling forum.

[BadBear]

I don't really have much to say about the matter at hand, but for your idea specifically, spamming isn't a very appropriate reaction, you'll just get banned for it.

And yes, I've banned several of those operators for spamming as well, mostly the ones that continuously bump their threads or advertise in other threads. I added the bumping rules to the marketplace guidelines thread here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3629.msg5541656#msg5541656).

[FUR11]

I don't really have much to say about the matter at hand, but for your idea specifically, spamming isn't a very appropriate reaction, you'll just get banned for it.

And yes, I've banned several of those operators for spamming as well, mostly the ones that continuously bump their threads or advertise in other threads. I added the bumping rules to the marketplace guidelines thread here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3629.msg5541656#msg5541656).

That's not what we're saying, though.  Ponzi's aren't gambling.  They shouldn't be allowed in the gambling section.  Because they aren't gambling. 

A perfect example is this thread.  This is a thread ABOUT the gambling forum.  It was removed from the gambling forum in ~ an hour.  I just checked and in the gambling forum, out of the top 17 posts 12 of them are pyramid schemes, poinzi schemes, or discussing pyramid/ponzi schemes.  How is this thread (which was moved quickly) different from those threads?  If this thread (about the gambling forum) was removed, how in the world could those threads (which are not related to gambling) be permitted to stay?

[BadBear]

I wasn't talking about that, I was just warning that spamming isn't a good way to bring up problems.

I've stayed out of these discussions until now because I hadn't really decided about it, but as far as I can tell they aren't even really ponzis, people just get mad when they see the word ponzi and dismiss it out of hand. It's just a game like any other. I don't remember people getting this mad about those bitgem or hot potato type games which are exactly the same thing. They also died off pretty fast, much like these will soon enough.

As for posts about gambling services (assuming I believe the "ponzis" to be gambling services) or sites, would you guys rather they all be moved to service discussion? To be honest IDGAF, but I'm not going to apply rules to one specific type of thread/service/game whatever that I don't apply to all. If threads talking about ponzis need to be moved to service discussion, then so does every thread talking about x gambling site that isn't started by the operator.  

If those games are to be moved, what's the criteria that separates them? Ideally it would be more general than just "ponzis go here", cause a board for less than a dozen threads is pretty worthless.

[farlack]

I wasn't talking about that, I was just warning that spamming isn't a good way to bring up problems.

I've stayed out of these discussions until now because I hadn't really decided about it, but as far as I can tell they aren't even really ponzis, people just get mad when they see the word ponzi and dismiss it out of hand. It's just a game like any other. I don't remember people getting this mad about those bitgem or hot potato type games which are exactly the same thing. They also died off pretty fast, much like these will soon enough.

As for posts about gambling services (assuming I believe the "ponzis" to be gambling services) or sites, would you guys rather they all be moved to service discussion? To be honest IDGAF, but I'm not going to apply rules to one specific type of thread/service/game whatever that I don't apply to all. If threads talking about ponzis need to be moved to service discussion, then so does every thread talking about x gambling site that isn't started by the operator.  

If those games are to be moved, what's the criteria that separates them? Ideally it would be more general than just "ponzis go here", cause a board for less than a dozen threads is pretty worthless.

The thing about ponzis are someone always loses. They're not fair games. As you said they 'died off' pretty fast, the last people to play will 100% lose.

[BadBear]

The thing about ponzis are someone always loses. They're not fair games. As you said they 'died off' pretty fast, the last people to play will 100% lose.

But they know that risk up front, if they want to take that risk who the fuck am I to tell them differently? Besides, doesn't somebody always lose? There's always a loser (usually multiple) in poker, should we stop those as well?

[farlack]

The thing about ponzis are someone always loses. They're not fair games. As you said they 'died off' pretty fast, the last people to play will 100% lose.

But they know that risk up front, if they want to take that risk who the fuck am I to tell them differently? Besides, doesn't somebody always lose? There's always a loser (usually multiple) in poker, should we stop those as well?

How does everyone know the risk up front? Not everyone does. And poker is a game of skill, not a game of luck to be the first, and hopefully not the last to play the game.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29288271/ns/us_news-life/t/judge-rules-texas-hold-em-game-skill/#.Ux-Fz4W5HYg

[BadBear]

The thing about ponzis are someone always loses. They're not fair games. As you said they 'died off' pretty fast, the last people to play will 100% lose.

But they know that risk up front, if they want to take that risk who the fuck am I to tell them differently? Besides, doesn't somebody always lose? There's always a loser (usually multiple) in poker, should we stop those as well?

How does everyone know the risk up front? Not everyone does.

Then they're idiots for not doing their due diligence and figuring out how the game works before playing, I'm not a babysitter here to save people from their own stupidity.

And poker is a game of skill, not a game of luck to be the first, and hopefully not the last to play the game.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29288271/ns/us_news-life/t/judge-rules-texas-hold-em-game-skill/#.Ux-Fz4W5HYg

Nobody said a thing about it being a game of skill or luck. Your contention was that it isn't fair, because someone always loses, and what's what I was replying to.

[FUR11]

I wasn't talking about that, I was just warning that spamming isn't a good way to bring up problems.

I've stayed out of these discussions until now because I hadn't really decided about it, but as far as I can tell they aren't even really ponzis, people just get mad when they see the word ponzi and dismiss it out of hand. It's just a game like any other. I don't remember people getting this mad about those bitgem or hot potato type games which are exactly the same thing. They also died off pretty fast, much like these will soon enough.

As for posts about gambling services (assuming I believe the "ponzis" to be gambling services) or sites, would you guys rather they all be moved to service discussion? To be honest IDGAF, but I'm not going to apply rules to one specific type of thread/service/game whatever that I don't apply to all. If threads talking about ponzis need to be moved to service discussion, then so does every thread talking about x gambling site that isn't started by the operator.  

If those games are to be moved, what's the criteria that separates them? Ideally it would be more general than just "ponzis go here", cause a board for less than a dozen threads is pretty worthless.

I disagree.  Something like coinbomb is a poniz-like game, because it has very clearly, well defined rules, timers, ect.  It took a ponzi scheme and turned it into a game.

The ponzi's that are littering the gambling forum are NOT games.  They are ponzi schemes.  They are completely without rules, each run under the whim of one random 0-post count account.  When they want to pump up the ponzi with their sockpuppets and pay themselves first...they do.  When they want to run off with the money...they do.

The criteria that separates them is that they are schemes.  Create a new scheme section or sub section.

No matter what you decide to do, thank you for taking your time and looking into this.  

[FUR11]

Here's a different way of looking at it:

Do-dodo-dodo, whats this bitcoin stuff all about, I'm interested in getting into it, oooh gambling, I like that, let's see what my gambling options are with bitcoin, maybe some casinos, or poker, or a fun dice game




...oh.  I guess it's all ponzis and other such investment schemes. 

[farlack]

The thing about ponzis are someone always loses. They're not fair games. As you said they 'died off' pretty fast, the last people to play will 100% lose.

But they know that risk up front, if they want to take that risk who the fuck am I to tell them differently? Besides, doesn't somebody always lose? There's always a loser (usually multiple) in poker, should we stop those as well?

How does everyone know the risk up front? Not everyone does.

Then they're idiots for not doing their due diligence and figuring out how the game works before playing, I'm not a babysitter here to save people from their own stupidity.

And poker is a game of skill, not a game of luck to be the first, and hopefully not the last to play the game.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29288271/ns/us_news-life/t/judge-rules-texas-hold-em-game-skill/#.Ux-Fz4W5HYg

Nobody said a thing about it being a game of skill or luck. Your contention was that it isn't fair, because someone always loses, and what's what I was replying to.

First off, you're not a babysitter, but you're paid to do a job, and your job is to mod the forums and keep users safe. What you're saying is you're to lazy to do your job, but collect your paycheck anyway. That's fair I'm not your boss. Calling someone an idiot for not researching is really mod-like, users should not have to do research on something allowed by the forums, seriously people from Afghanistan have never heard of dinosaurs, how the fuck are they going to know a ponzi is bad?

And as for the someone always loses, its not the same shit, stop making it seem like it is, losing without the chance to win is not the same thing as being bad at cards.

P.S. requiring a ponzi to state the fact that the last to play, will lose, wont take any time out of your busy mod schedule to do.

[BadBear]

First off, you're not a babysitter, but you're paid to do a job, and your job is to mod the forums and keep users safe. What you're saying is you're to lazy to do your job, but collect your paycheck anyway. That's fair I'm not your boss. Calling someone an idiot for not researching is really mod-like, users should not have to do research on something allowed by the forums, seriously people from Afghanistan have never heard of dinosaurs, how the fuck are they going to know a ponzi is bad?

Users shouldn't have to do their research before giving an anonymous dude on the internet their money? Really? I guess this whole argument can stop right here and we'll just agree to disagree.

And as for the someone always loses, its not the same shit, stop making it seem like it is, losing without the chance to win is not the same thing as being bad at cards.

Okay then, how about roulette? Game of chance, and 99% of the people playing are going to lose, hell probably 100%. And how the hell are foreigners going to know what the word roulette means, I mean especially since in your world nobody should have to do any research before participating in these sorts of things.

Here's a different way of looking at it:

Do-dodo-dodo, whats this bitcoin stuff all about, I'm interested in getting into it, oooh gambling, I like that, let's see what my gambling options are with bitcoin, maybe some casinos, or poker, or a fun dice game

https://i.imgur.com/9byslFt.png


...oh.  I guess it's all ponzis and other such investment schemes.  

I agree with most of what you've said. Some of them certainly aren't games and are just schemes, but then again so are some of the gambling sites, but I digress. If we're going to do something there still needs to be specific criteria to distinguish them from the rest in order to keep moderation fair and equal.

[theMiracle]

@BadBear -- I have reported this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=506121.0 (Twelverized 12% Daily Profit For 12 Days On Bitcoins).
This thing claims to be an *investment*, paying 12% daily profit -- absolutely miscategorized in the Gambling section.
I'd like to report it again so that you could move it to whatever-section-12%-daily-profit-deals-belong-in.
Thx.

[FUR11]

I agree with most of what you've said. Some of them certainly aren't games and are just schemes, but then again so are some of the gambling sites, but I digress. If we're going to do something there still needs to be specific criteria to distinguish them from the rest in order to keep moderation fair and equal.

How about removing/relocating anything that doesn't have a "game" component or is not related to something that has a "game" component?  All of these ponzi/pyramids are just "give me some money, you might get some back".  There is no game component, and 'gambling' certainly implies if not out-rightly states that there is a game-based component.  The argument could certainly be made that ponzis and pyramids fit more into the investment forum then the gambling forum, but I believe that they need to be put into their own sub-section, some sort of "investment-gambling-scheme" forum.

[Arcas]

Just demand that Ponzi games stay inside the Games and Rounds subsection.

That's why it's there after all.

[BadBear]

I agree with most of what you've said. Some of them certainly aren't games and are just schemes, but then again so are some of the gambling sites, but I digress. If we're going to do something there still needs to be specific criteria to distinguish them from the rest in order to keep moderation fair and equal.

How about removing/relocating anything that doesn't have a "game" component or is not related to something that has a "game" component?  All of these ponzi/pyramids are just "give me some money, you might get some back".  There is no game component, and 'gambling' certainly implies if not out-rightly states that there is a game-based component.  The argument could certainly be made that ponzis and pyramids fit more into the investment forum then the gambling forum, but I believe that they need to be put into their own sub-section, some sort of "investment-gambling-scheme" forum.

Well that's the one part I disagree with you on, I do think they're a game. Only a ponzi in name. Though I do think they might be a better fit in games and rounds because of that. They literally do run rounds, though not necessarily forum based. It's a pretty specific game that caters to a specific audience, whereas the rest of gambling tends to be casino type places, which covers a large variety of games. Kind of like comparing a shell game to Hannah's Casino, bare basics are the same but they aren't really the same thing. 

[theMiracle]

How does this belong in the gambling forum?

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[FUR11]

It's a pretty specific game that caters to a specific audience, whereas the rest of gambling tends to be casino type places, which covers a large variety of games. Kind of like comparing a shell game to Hannah's Casino, bare basics are the same but they aren't really the same thing. 

And now you've proven to yourself that schemes don't belong in the gambling section.  

[BadBear]

I already moved that thread when it was posted, it belongs in games and rounds, as does the leancy thread. The ponzi games without a website that are forum based belong in games and rounds, this one for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=511355.0

As for the others, well the powers that be disagree.

[FUR11]

As for the others, well the powers that be disagree.

Just so that everyone is clear, are you saying that the official stance of bitcointalk is that ponzis that have their own website belong in the "gambling" section?

[theMiracle]

Not sure I understand.  The "Investment opportunity" that pays 12% daily was moved to Games and Rounds?  Not Securities?  

Aren't you trivializing "...English company formed by Mr. Farid Lee. Mr. Lee is an outstanding entrepreneur. He hired and formed a group of eight ( experts, who are responsible for managing investment funds in several investment tunnels"? (the smiley is actually numeral 8 after "eight" spelled out, just like in the Nigerian Prince investments)

This is no game.  Nowhere in the description is the word "game" even mentioned.  

What made you decide to put it in "Games and Rounds"?

[BadBear]

As for the others, well the powers that be disagree.

Just so that everyone is clear, are you saying that the official stance of bitcointalk is that ponzis that have their own website belong in the "gambling" section?

Yes.

Not sure I understand.  The "Investment opportunity" that pays 12% daily was moved to Games and Rounds?  Not Securities?  

Aren't you trivializing "...English company formed by Mr. Farid Lee. Mr. Lee is an outstanding entrepreneur. He hired and formed a group of eight ( experts, who are responsible for managing investment funds in several investment tunnels"? (the smiley is actually numeral 8 after "eight" spelled out, just like in the Nigerian Prince investments)

This is no game.  Nowhere in the description is the word "game" even mentioned.  

What made you decide to put it in "Games and Rounds"?

Because it's referral spam where he's paying people to sign up under him.

[malevolent]

Not sure I understand.  The "Investment opportunity" that pays 12% daily was moved to Games and Rounds?  Not Securities? 

Aren't you trivializing "...English company formed by Mr. Farid Lee. Mr. Lee is an outstanding entrepreneur. He hired and formed a group of eight ( experts, who are responsible for managing investment funds in several investment tunnels"? (the smiley is actually numeral 8 after "eight" spelled out, just like in the Nigerian Prince investments)

This is no game.  Nowhere in the description is the word "game" even mentioned. 

What made you decide to put it in "Games and Rounds"?

Check out the description of the Gambling section:

Gambling and all "investments" that are so risky they might as well be gambling (HYIPs, pyramid schemes, etc.)

[theMiracle]

^Thanks, both mods.  Couldn't find the description you mentioned, but I'm sure it's around.  Would be awesomer if the section was called something more descriptive, like "OMG GET in the fuckin' car it's a scam!!" but this way I still have goals and dreams...

[BadBear]

As for the others, well the powers that be disagree.

Just so that everyone is clear, are you saying that the official stance of bitcointalk is that ponzis that have their own website belong in the "gambling" section?

Also to clarify for anyone else that may be thinking the same thing you did, I am not the powers that be referenced there, I was talking with the admin at the time. If I were the powers that be, I certainly wouldn't call myself the powers that be, and I don't talk about myself in the third person either, that takes a special kind of asshole. I might be an asshole but I'm not that kind of asshole.

Also the answer isn't written in stone, he may still be swayed by reasonable arguments, but I don't really have a horse in this race, the extent of my gambling is hosting poker night at my place once in a while.

[Light]

Also the answer isn't written in stone, he may still be swayed by reasonable arguments, but I don't really have a horse in this race, the extent of my gambling is hosting poker night at my place once in a while.

I'm still hoping that theymos changes his mind. I don't mind having ponzis on the site, I just dislike them in the gambling sub. Is the creation of a new sub for ponzis an option even on the cards?

[BadBear]

Also the answer isn't written in stone, he may still be swayed by reasonable arguments, but I don't really have a horse in this race, the extent of my gambling is hosting poker night at my place once in a while.

I'm still hoping that theymos changes his mind. I don't mind having ponzis on the site, I just dislike them in the gambling sub. Is the creation of a new sub for ponzis an option even on the cards?

Yes, click the link at the top of the quote to be taken to the thread.

Ponzi owners say to users that is "120%" "LEGIT" "STABLE" and other shit. They do not say - you MIGHT lost lost your money.

When you place a bet @casino - you know what you are doing and you know before you place a bet that you can be a looser or a winner

that is main different between Ponzi and other gambling projects.

PonziCoin says "So, I could lose all my investment? -> Yes, that is the gamble you take when playing Ponzi games," and, "you should never deposit more than you can risk losing." Does this make PonziCoin not a ponzi?

If there are many people who like traditional gambling games and not Ponzis, then a category should probably be created, but I'm not sure where the line would be drawn between Ponzis and other games. Maybe traditional games must be based 100% on chance? But that'd eliminate many other games as well.

Are you serious?  Casino games can be provably fair.  You don't go in expecting to win.  It's a chance.

If you're good at poker, you might go into a poker game expecting to win in a high percentage of games. Similarly, people skilled at playing Ponzis might expect to win often enough to get ahead. In both cases, newbies are very likely to lose a lot.

I think that it might actually be possible to make a Ponzi game trustless using advanced Bitcoin features like LockTime.

[farlack]

Oh come on that's ignorant as fuck where do we draw the line at what is a ponzi?

Maybe the title of the thread PONZI PONZI 120% can help with the line. Or the send bitcoin here and when the next person sends me bitcoin I'll send you yours plus 20% of his. How about no algorithm being used to define terms of the game?

[BadBear]

Oh come on that's ignorant as fuck where do we draw the line at what is a ponzi?

Maybe the title of the thread PONZI PONZI 120% can help with the line. Or the send bitcoin here and when the next person sends me bitcoin I'll send you yours plus 20% of his. How about no algorithm being used to define terms of the game?

That's not what he said, read it again. He's asking for the same thing I've been asking for, a clearly defined set of criteria to separate those sorts of games from the rest. Ideally it would be something a bit more elegant than 'lol it says ponzi in the title so off to ponziboard it goes'. And to get around your second criteria they could just start up the BitGem type games again. As for your third, that would cover quite a few games that you wouldn't want.

Edit: Oh wait I remember where I recognize your name from, back on ignore you go.

[FUR11]

He's asking for the same thing I've been asking for, a clearly defined set of criteria to separate those sorts of games from the rest. Ideally it would be something a bit more elegant than 'lol it says ponzi in the title so off to ponziboard it goes'.

I suggested "there needs to be a game component" earlier.  Do you/him feel that this explanation is incomplete?  Inaccurate?  I'm sure that a couple of people thinking about "how to define a ponzi/pyramid scheme" can easily come up with some very comprehensive guidelines if you are suggesting that doing so will lead to their exclusion from the gambling section of this site.

[BadBear]

Easiest thing to do would be to just make a separate HYIP board. Would also serve as a place for the leancy, roinvest, and whatever crap people are peddling these days. HYIP and gambling don't really belong together anyway, it's probably time to separate them.

They are much more accurately described as HYIP than games, I think we're just getting caught up in what it isn't, and missing what it is. When faced with the argument, 'It's not gambling, it isn't a game', then we end up debating whether it's a game or not. A better argument would be, 'It's a HYIP, and it doesn't belong with traditional gambling, and neither do the other sites like leancy.'

[flower1024]

Easiest thing to do would be to just make a separate HYIP board. Would also serve as a place for the leancy, roinvest, and whatever crap people are peddling these days. HYIP and gambling don't really belong together anyway, it's probably time to separate them.

They are much more accurately described as HYIP than games, I think we're just getting caught up in what it isn't, and missing what it is. When faced with the argument, 'It's not gambling, it isn't a game', then we end up debating whether it's a game or not. A better argument would be, 'It's a HYIP, and it doesn't belong with traditional gambling, and neither do the other sites like leancy.'

i like that idea, because ponzi-like investments could be moved there easily.
if you add an disclaimer or stickied thread to remind people of self-responsability it would be perfect

[FUR11]

Easiest thing to do would be to just make a separate HYIP board. Would also serve as a place for the leancy, roinvest, and whatever crap people are peddling these days. HYIP and gambling don't really belong together anyway, it's probably time to separate them.

They are much more accurately described as HYIP than games, I think we're just getting caught up in what it isn't, and missing what it is. When faced with the argument, 'It's not gambling, it isn't a game', then we end up debating whether it's a game or not. A better argument would be, 'It's a HYIP, and it doesn't belong with traditional gambling, and neither do the other sites like leancy.'

[RichG]

Tried for weeks but The Mods dont care

Perhaps then it's time to get new mods? 

I have a crazy idea! Find another forum.

[farlack]

Easiest thing to do would be to just make a separate HYIP board. Would also serve as a place for the leancy, roinvest, and whatever crap people are peddling these days. HYIP and gambling don't really belong together anyway, it's probably time to separate them.

They are much more accurately described as HYIP than games, I think we're just getting caught up in what it isn't, and missing what it is. When faced with the argument, 'It's not gambling, it isn't a game', then we end up debating whether it's a game or not. A better argument would be, 'It's a HYIP, and it doesn't belong with traditional gambling, and neither do the other sites like leancy.'

/facepalm

HYIP/Ponzi... who gives a shit on the name? It's not gambling, and that's what people are stating. It doesn't belong in the gambling spot.

[CoinPayoff]

Can we please just get another category for hyip/ponzi "style" games.. and I say style because it's not a ponzi in the fact there is something being hidden on what's going on with your deposit or btc like most traditional ponzi's. Most of these games are completely 100% upfront and by the end of it it's simply another way of gambling. It's your choice if your decide to play or not and nothing is happening "behind close doors". Simply another game.

The war on the gambling thread between these type of games and casino owners is getting out of hand and becoming very immature to say the least. " I will report you, no I will report you!, you are doing this!"

Lets put a stop to this finally and just create another category to end this debate on what makes a site a "gambling site"

[BadBear]

No answer from theymos so I'd assume it isn't going to happen. Not sure why, it makes perfect sense.

[CoinPayoff]

No answer from theymos so I'd assume it isn't going to happen. Not sure why, it makes perfect sense.

thanks for the update.. hopefully they will implement a new category sometime

[Light]

No answer from theymos so I'd assume it isn't going to happen. Not sure why, it makes perfect sense.

Damn it, looks like I'm going to have to start ignoring a lot of stuff. I don't understand why he wouldn't allow a different section - everyone's happy. The real gambling doesn't have to mix with that crap, and those guys have a whole board to themselves to rip off newbies. Win - win .

[zeeshanblc]

If theymos does not nothing about it. Just ignore those threads. Nothing will happen what ever protest you do. This is no public forum this is Privately own Forum own by theymos.

[FUR11]

If theymos does not nothing about it. Just ignore those threads. Nothing will happen what ever protest you do. This is no public forum this is Privately own Forum own by theymos.

By protesting in the threads, board members are effectively shutting them down.  Eventually scheme owners will be requesting their own sub forum also and everyone will be on the same page.  Giving them their own forum now is win-win.

...well except for the people losing coins in these things.  They probably don't feel very winning.