Institutional money into Crypto?

[BitHodler]

Most people here don't care about crypto vs the banks.  They just want their bags to be pumped so they can dump for fiat money.  There aren't many hardcore libertarian left in bitcoin.

let's be realistic,  liberation and financial freedom comes from owning way above average of whatever that majority of people accept as a method of payment one-way or the other. if you are a poor kid and you are not working on it, bitcoin won't help you.

if tomorrow we wake up and every bank out there closes their doors, and the whole world elect bitcoin to be the one and only measurement of wealth, are we all going to be liberated? indeed not, those with more bitcoin stacking will be liberated and happy while the rest will be just as miserable they are now.

financial freedom is always about the "quantity" , how you scale/measure it does not matter, bitcoin,gold,cash,sheep,cows, lands or anything for that matter.

bitcoin's major and probably only strength over traditional system  is "anonymity", and you will never be liberated with 0.1 btc hiding in your wallet.

It all depends on how you look at financial freedom, because it's very much subjective, but I think that you're describing it in the most effective way for most of the people living in well developed countries.

In third world countries people are satisfied with financial freedom in form of a fair and open economy, and where their payments can't be censored by oppressive regimes that don't want you to transact with whoever they don't like.

If you can blend in both, regardless of where you are in the world, it's much closer to a pure form of financial freedom. I think that's the main priority for a lot of people here. Some will get there eventually, most won't....

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[Pepe Lapiu]

Bitcoin is the solution to a problem.
And the big hurdle here is that if you don't recognize there is a problem, explaining it's solution to you would be in vain.

All of the G20 countries operate under a crushing debt that can never be repaid. How can it be that all of the 20 richest countries in the world are in debt?

To put it very simply, here in Canada, the government installed the central bank in the 1930's. And roughly around the same time, they started the income tax.

They told us that the income tax was going to be temporary and it was only to help pay for the war.
But that was a twofold lie. The income tax was never going to.be temporary, and it was never meant to pay for the war. In reality the income tax is a direct consequence of the central bank issuing worthless fiat paper backed by debt.

In fact not only the income tax was a result of the central bank, but the continuously increasing national debt is also directly caused by the central bank and it's fiat paper.

Most people believe their income taxes go to pay for the infrastructure and social services. That is an absolute myth. The income tax goes to service the national debt, which is created by the worthless fiat paper. Without the central bank and with an honest monetary policy, their would be no need for income taxes.

And this exact same story is repeated in the USA. In fact pretty much every country that instigated a central bank had to start the income tax and saw a rising national debt.

The central banking system and debt back fiat paper are the greatest scheme pulled upon the people on this planet.

Satoshi Nakamoto and tge early adopters of Bitcoin all understand the above. This is why any form of regulation and Wall Street involvement must be rejected and understood as destructive.

Today the average Canadian pays more than half of his income in taxes to various governments. In the USA it's around 40 cents on every dollar you earn. In Norway and Sweden it's a ridiculous 70-80% of their income going to taxes.

Still everyone around me professes they have economic freedom and they live in a free country. That's entirely false. You are a debt slave. And Bitcoin can be the key to your shakles. If we don't screw it up and demand government regulations and Wall Street money.

[deisik]

Most people here don't care about crypto vs the banks.  They just want their bags to be pumped so they can dump for fiat money.  There aren't many hardcore libertarian left in bitcoin.

let's be realistic,  liberation and financial freedom comes from owning way above average of whatever that majority of people accept as a method of payment one-way or the other. if you are a poor kid and you are not working on it, bitcoin won't help you

That looks to me as an inverted tautology

It is like saying that if you don't earn money (or generate income in some other way), you are going to remain poor. Or you are poor because you don't earn enough income. Indeed Bitcoin is not going to help you here as you are not earning enough of it. But in this case it is not different form any other means or venue for generating profits (fiat or otherwise)

Essentially, it is a truism, something like "buy low and sell high". Other than that, I agree with your point, for example, about financial freedom always being about the quantity ("size does matter after all")

[Burogh]

Look dude, I really don't feel like explaining to you how derivatives and paper gold/coin work and how corrupt and destructive the banking system and Wall Street really are

I don't care about how corrupt and destructive Wall Street is

It is enough for me to know that they can't corrupt Bitcoin, and that (as I explained above) is likely one of the reasons (if not the sole reason) why they have been staying away from it for so long. In this way, you may continue to make noise (like "it would take a few books to explain it to you"), but it still won't make Bitcoin more corruptible or destructible. Bitcoin is not gold (in this regard), and all your actions with it are public and can be pretty much considered set in stone (e.g. who paid whom and how much)

Master card recently propose patent for fractional reserve on bitcoin. This will makes master card creating their own bitcoin paper and as for i know this is not real bitcoin like in market. Maybe i am wrong but its the face how corrupt wall street is.

[Dodoymabs]

Bitcoin is the solution to a problem.
And the big hurdle here is that if you don't recognize there is a problem, explaining it's solution to you would be in vain.

All of the G20 countries operate under a crushing debt that can never be repaid. How can it be that all of the 20 richest countries in the world are in debt?

To put it very simply, here in Canada, the government installed the central bank in the 1930's. And roughly around the same time, they started the income tax.

They told us that the income tax was going to be temporary and it was only to help pay for the war.
But that was a twofold lie. The income tax was never going to.be temporary, and it was never meant to pay for the war. In reality the income tax is a direct consequence of the central bank issuing worthless fiat paper backed by debt.

In fact not only the income tax was a result of the central bank, but the continuously increasing national debt is also directly caused by the central bank and it's fiat paper.

Most people believe their income taxes go to pay for the infrastructure and social services. That is an absolute myth. The income tax goes to service the national debt, which is created by the worthless fiat paper. Without the central bank and with an honest monetary policy, their would be no need for income taxes.

And this exact same story is repeated in the USA. In fact pretty much every country that instigated a central bank had to start the income tax and saw a rising national debt.

The central banking system and debt back fiat paper are the greatest scheme pulled upon the people on this planet.

Satoshi Nakamoto and tge early adopters of Bitcoin all understand the above. This is why any form of regulation and Wall Street involvement must be rejected and understood as destructive.

Today the average Canadian pays more than half of his income in taxes to various governments. In the USA it's around 40 cents on every dollar you earn. In Norway and Sweden it's a ridiculous 70-80% of their income going to taxes.

Still everyone around me professes they have economic freedom and they live in a free country. That's entirely false. You are a debt slave. And Bitcoin can be the key to your shakles. If we don't screw it up and demand government regulations and Wall Street money.

You are definitely right, this is an eye opener to everyone but due to the power of the government, all we can do is to follow what has already been made in the past. We are still slaves working hard having an underpaid rates. We have been blind by the rules which we are assuming of their lies. This is why, they want to control the BTC to prevent our freedom of owning it in reality.

[Ranly123]

Hey guys. I'm very active on Quora. There a great many people are predicting tgat cryptos will get bigger soon as Wall Street is working to get invested in cryptos. They all think that once banks bring their massive funds into crypto, that the price will go sky high.

I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.

Your thoughts?

Bitcoin certificates? How could that be possible since even without institutions we can own our own bitcoin. With wallstreet money getting into crypto memans a lot to the progress of it. Not that bank will bring funds to crypto but they might adopt to make transactions using it.

[Pepe Lapiu]

Bitcoin certificates? How could that be possible since even without institutions we can own our own bitcoin.

I have no doubt that if you ever wanted to buy gold, you would buy the actual gold, and not a certificate. But the vast majority of people choose to buy worthless paper gold than actual gold. I even have a friend who lives not 5 blocks from a gold dealer, yet he prefers to buy gold derivatives and paper gold.

So people are already doing it with gold. What makes you think they won't do it with Bitcoin?

With wallstreet money getting into crypto memans a lot to the progress of it.

If by progress you mean certificates and other derivatives, than you are correct 100%.

Not that bank will bring funds to crypto but they might adopt to make transactions using it.

Think about this for a minute. We need the banks to buy just about anything. From paying your bills to buying on Amazon. And they get paid very handsomely to move that fiat paper around for us. Why on earth do you think they would move to something that takes the banks out of business?

That's as meaningless as a horse buggy maker thinking he can put pneumatic tires on his buggy to compete with cars.

Rest assured if a horse buggy maker gets to invest in cars, there is nothing good to come out of this.

[Pepe Lapiu]

Bitcoin certificates? How could that be possible since even without institutions we can own our own bitcoin.

You need to understand that the exact same thing can be said about gold. You don't need Wallstreet or your bank to buy real gold. Yet people line up to buy fake paper gold.
That is what banks and Wall Street will do to Bitcoin.
Your bank will not move to Bitcoin so that you can send and receive money without paying the bank. Why would they do that?
When you call your broker to invest 1000$ in Bitcoin, ge's not going to tell you to download a wallet and buy coin on Coinbase. Why would hr do that?

When you stop and think for a minute, Wall Street and banks are not good news to Bitcoin.

[deisik]

Look dude, I really don't feel like explaining to you how derivatives and paper gold/coin work and how corrupt and destructive the banking system and Wall Street really are

I don't care about how corrupt and destructive Wall Street is

It is enough for me to know that they can't corrupt Bitcoin, and that (as I explained above) is likely one of the reasons (if not the sole reason) why they have been staying away from it for so long. In this way, you may continue to make noise (like "it would take a few books to explain it to you"), but it still won't make Bitcoin more corruptible or destructible. Bitcoin is not gold (in this regard), and all your actions with it are public and can be pretty much considered set in stone (e.g. who paid whom and how much)

Master card recently propose patent for fractional reserve on bitcoin. This will makes master card creating their own bitcoin paper and as for i know this is not real bitcoin like in market. Maybe i am wrong but its the face how corrupt wall street is

It doesn't mean a shit

There are literally thousands of totally useless and pointless patents. You can patent something too because you can (but beware of prior art). Kidding aside, if MasterCard patents fractional reserve on bitcoin, it doesn't in the least mean that anyone will be using these paper bitcoins, and definitely not because of the royalties (just like with other such stupid inventions). All in all, it is an exercise in stupidity and futility

[eaLiTy]

You are definitely right, this is an eye opener to everyone but due to the power of the government, all we can do is to follow what has already been made in the past. We are still slaves working hard having an underpaid rates. We have been blind by the rules which we are assuming of their lies. This is why, they want to control the BTC to prevent our freedom of owning it in reality.

Governments are always powerful and they will do everything in their power to control each and every citizen and nothing can be done about it, if you are living in a country where you could vote for the next rules, make sure you choose the perfect person rather than skipping the entire electoral process.
Bitcoin will give you the freedom to trade beyond boundaries and right now it is seen as a store of value and eventually it will change. If there is regulations and clarity on each governments take on the current market, you might see institutional investments and it will boost the market without a doubt but not sure how it will be in the long run.

[Pepe Lapiu]

Governments are always powerful and they will do everything in their power to control each and every citizen and nothing can be done about it

I find your attitude to be rather defeatist. And I don't agree.

, if you are living in a country where you could vote for the next rules, make sure you choose the perfect person rather than skipping the entire electoral process.

If voting could change anything at all, it would be illegal. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Freedom is a well armed sheep demanding a vote recount.

Bitcoin will give you the freedom to trade beyond boundaries and right now it is seen as a store of value and eventually it will change. If there is regulations and clarity on each governments take on the current market, you might see institutional investments and it will boost the market without a doubt but not sure how it will be in the long run.

Government is involved in every aspect of your life. You can't point to a single thing they don't tax, regulate, standardize, license, permit, or subsidize. And you yourself wrote that governments are too powerful and there is nothing you can do about it. Well, for starters you could stop demanding more government involvement in every aspect of your life, and everyone else's. That would be a pretty good start, don't you think?

[Pepe Lapiu]

There are literally thousands of totally useless and pointless patents.

I don't think Mastercard is in the business of creating useless and pointless patents.

if MasterCard patents fractional reserve on bitcoin, it doesn't in the least mean that anyone will be using these paper bitcoins

You overestimate public stupidity. As I pointed out earlier, I invest in physical gold and silver (that's bullion I can hold in my hand). Yet I would say that the vast majority of people who invest in gold and silver know very well what woryhless paper gold looks like. Yet when I show them a gold 1 oz bar, they tell me they never saw that before.

In fact most people would prefer paper gold over actual real gold. So why do you assume nobody would want paper coin over real Bitcoin is behond me.

All in all, it is an exercise in stupidity and futility

Owning paper gold and worthless gold derivatives is also an exercise in stupidity and futility. But that doesn't stop people from buying it like hot cakes. What makes you think they will scuff at paper coin and coin derivatives?

[exstasie]

If you were reading my posts here carefully, I never mentioned the transfer of keys to the owners of bitcoins (Bitcoin certificates, more specifically). I meant that the funds should be interested in convincing people that they actually own the bitcoins they claim they have. If they do, then they wouldn't be able to create more paper bitcoins then there are real ones. On the other hand, if they fail to do that, investors will stay away from such funds

What evidence do you have for that?

Because it doesn't happen in other markets. Anyone can look up what's in the COMEX gold vaults and see outstanding contracts aren't fully deliverable. But nobody cares and everyone keeps trading. Very few traders care about the underlying trustability of markets or custodians, they just want to make profits. Why would that change with Bitcoin? Because "blockchain?" LOL. Most Bitcoin investors don't even know how to use a block explorer, and this will only get worse over time as more mainstream investors enter the market.

[deisik]

If you were reading my posts here carefully, I never mentioned the transfer of keys to the owners of bitcoins (Bitcoin certificates, more specifically). I meant that the funds should be interested in convincing people that they actually own the bitcoins they claim they have. If they do, then they wouldn't be able to create more paper bitcoins then there are real ones. On the other hand, if they fail to do that, investors will stay away from such funds

What evidence do you have for that?

It is pretty simple really. If these funds claim that the Bitcoin certificates they are going to issue are fully covered by Bitcoin reserves, you would expect them to actually provide a means of checking that (given that all relevant information about ownership is freely available on the blockchain anyway). If they don't do that, it will raise a lot of eyebrows and accusations of deliberate lies as well as misinformation (probably followed by lawsuits). On the other hand, just one fund actually proving they are what they claim to be will suffice as the rest will have to either do the same or go out of the business

So yes, because "blockchain"

Most Bitcoin investors don't even know how to use a block explorer, and this will only get worse over time as more mainstream investors enter the market

I really doubt that. I guess the next thing you are going to say is that the mainstream investors are illiterate

[cizatext]

Wall street investing they found in bitcoin will have the capacity to pump the price of bitcoin in the market but the fact is it can only have positive effect on bitcoin since bitcoin operate on the law of demands and supply but the wall street will not have the ability to control bitcoin because bitcoin is a decentralized institution.

[tonyja2017]

Hey guys. I'm very active on Quora. There a great many people are predicting tgat cryptos will get bigger soon as Wall Street is working to get invested in cryptos. They all think that once banks bring their massive funds into crypto, that the price will go sky high.

I'm not so optimist. I think Wall Street getting into Bitcoin can only mean bad things. Mainly rehypotecation and paper bitcoin allowing countless people to invest in Bitcoin 'certificates' rather than owning actual Bitcoin.

How do you guys feel about that?
You think Wall Street money getting pumped into Bitcoin can be a good thing?

I for one only see bad stuff down that road. Bitcoin  is supposed to be the death of Wall Street, not it's instrument.

Your thoughts?

I disagree with your point of view. It's not really as serious as you think. The crypto market is also a financial market. When our market has many new whales invading, it will have a lot of interesting things.
The whales will dispute the right to manipulate, pushing the price of coins high to gain possession. We will be profitable as more and more big investors join the crypto market.

[Crypdon]

The benefit wallstreet brings to bitcoin is not just financial, it is about marketing. Even if they don't directly pump the price it will hit the media and add more confidence for regular people to invest in it and start mainstream adoption

[Pepe Lapiu]

It is pretty simple really. If these funds claim that the Bitcoin certificates they are going to issue are fully covered by Bitcoin reserves, you would expect them to actually provide a means of checking that (given that all relevant information about ownership is freely available on the blockchain anyway).

You don't realise that the majority of people who invest in things like stocks and other investment vehicles don't really care if the paper they buy is backed by actual assets or not.

Those people who are buying gold certificates today are content with the the claim that it's backed by gold without any means of verifying it. They are equally happy to buy unallocated gold certificates, which don't even try to claim they are backed by actual gold.

So if the vast majority of people are fully happy with worthless paper gold, what makes you think they won't be happy with worthless paper Bitcoin?

If they don't do that, it will raise a lot of eyebrows and accusations of deliberate lies as well as misinformation (probably followed by lawsuits).

I strongly disagree. They are already openly doing just that with gold and only very very few people give a rat's ass about it.

[TheClownSong]

The benefit wallstreet brings to bitcoin is not just financial, it is about marketing. Even if they don't directly pump the price it will hit the media and add more confidence for regular people to invest in it and start mainstream adoption

If wall street bring bitcoin, its a great marketing for cryptocurrency. People and investor must be interesting and studying about bitcoin and invest on cryptocurrency market. People will thinking bitcoin is regulated investment and with limited supply, bitcoin price will increasing

[nur rochid]

The benefit wallstreet brings to bitcoin is not just financial, it is about marketing. Even if they don't directly pump the price it will hit the media and add more confidence for regular people to invest in it and start mainstream adoption

If wall street bring bitcoin, its a great marketing for cryptocurrency. People and investor must be interesting and studying about bitcoin and invest on cryptocurrency market. People will thinking bitcoin is regulated investment and with limited supply, bitcoin price will increasing

especially with the increasing number of bitcoin users, and what needs to be remembered is that at the moment the bitcoiner is still minimal, of course we can imagine if many countries legalize it.