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Author Topic: Institutional money into Crypto?  (Read 5944 times)
deisik
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February 17, 2019, 07:20:27 AM
 #81

You don't realise that the majority of people who invest in things like stocks and other investment vehicles don't really care if the paper they buy is backed by actual assets or not

It doesn't matter what the majority of people do or not do, whether they care or not. A couple of lawsuits and a dozen of angry dudes (like Bitfinexd one) will do just wonders in this regard in this epoch. The rest will be history. Other than that, people who invest in stocks are buying stocks and they are what they are, even if these are trash stocks only. Obviously, you are confusing stocks with derivatives here, investors with speculators

While the former do care if they buy real value or paper shit

Those people who are buying gold certificates today are content with the the claim that it's backed by gold without any means of verifying it. They are equally happy to buy unallocated gold certificates, which don't even try to claim they are backed by actual gold.

So if the vast majority of people are fully happy with worthless paper gold, what makes you think they won't be happy with worthless paper Bitcoin?

Bitcoin is not gold (and I won't get tired repeating it)

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February 17, 2019, 03:39:35 PM
 #82

Big institutional money has been going to enter this market for a long time, but still can not be solved, there are too big risks and revenues, and maybe they are afraid of uncertainty...
Anyway, I don't see the good news that with the arrival of wall street, the price will go up. This price may just as well go down, as it is more likely that large amounts of money may play down to buy bitcoin at a better price first.
Warren Buffett and other influential people on wall street do not make a finger and know where to invest, so it's better to drop the price and then start buying.
As Buffett said, buy shares of companies when the companies are very bad..

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angel55
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February 17, 2019, 03:58:01 PM
 #83

Your late, wall street guys have already been in crypto for a long time.  Winklevoss twins have connections in all those circles and they have been in bitcoin for years now and are working on their additional crypto businesses.  The money needed to enter the market is the average joes who don't even know how to use bitcoin.
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February 17, 2019, 04:29:51 PM
 #84

The money needed to enter the market is the average joes who don't even know how to use bitcoin.
No. This is the exact type of "their" thinking.
We need those people to enter but only with knowledge. What good is there from speculators and opportunists?
Plummets and volatility, nothing more. We need stable adoption by those who care for their own and their kids freedom.

Agreed on all the rest you have written, "they" are already in, most likely playing dirty by now.

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February 17, 2019, 06:04:46 PM
 #85

Your late, wall street guys have already been in crypto for a long time.  Winklevoss twins have connections in all those circles and they have been in bitcoin for years now and are working on their additional crypto businesses.  The money needed to enter the market is the average joes who don't even know how to use bitcoin.
The Wall Street guys are in cryptocurrencies market and I strongly believe that some of them Own some projects.  Institutionalized investors like bank are waiting for some set up in cryptocurrencies market for them to started coming into the market.
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February 17, 2019, 08:05:50 PM
 #86

Your late, wall street guys have already been in crypto for a long time.  Winklevoss twins have connections in all those circles and they have been in bitcoin for years now and are working on their additional crypto businesses.  The money needed to enter the market is the average joes who don't even know how to use bitcoin.
The Wall Street guys are in cryptocurrencies market and I strongly believe that some of them Own some projects.  Institutionalized investors like bank are waiting for some set up in cryptocurrencies market for them to started coming into the market.
Any proofs? Wall Street is there for a concrete reasons which big percent of it depend on factors like power,money. Institutional money is smart money which never flows to financial assets that don't have any potential like return on the investment more than 50%. Speculation is root of all evil and crypto markets are strongly manipulated by big guys. Inside information is biggest advantage of them and we all know the power information in 21 century especially for financial markets.

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deisik
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February 17, 2019, 08:42:10 PM
 #87

Your late, wall street guys have already been in crypto for a long time.  Winklevoss twins have connections in all those circles and they have been in bitcoin for years now and are working on their additional crypto businesses.  The money needed to enter the market is the average joes who don't even know how to use bitcoin

The question is not about their money

Even if these guys have been in Bitcoin since its inception (which may well be the case). For this they don't need ETF's, SEC approvals and whatnot. The question is about managing someone else's money (preferably big money). Basically, ETF's and similar institutions (for example, pension funds) are investing the money of their clients. And their clients are these average Joe's who may not even have heard about crypto (let alone been using it)

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February 18, 2019, 01:56:01 AM
 #88

First, let us all agree that we are all on the same side here - on the Bitcoin side.

Secondly, when I talk about paper coin, I refer to coin derivatives and investments vehicles such as futures market, certificates, and others.

It doesn't matter what the majority of people do or not do, whether they care or not.

It does matter a great deal what the majority of people do. When some people invest in paper coin, they are essencially dilluting the price of coin. And I am going to provide a very simplistic example here.

Let's say I am a broker and I offer Bitcoin certificates. You buy my worthless certificate. You even see that I have more than just your coin, I have 20 coins on there.  And I even offer you to look on the blockchain to verify I do in fact have a coin to back that certificate. Than I sell an other 200 certificates to an other 200 guys on the forum. And I show each and everyone of them that I do have the coin on the blockchain to back that paper. But I only have 20 coins on the block chain to back the 200 certificates.

That sounds absurd and ridiculous. But that's exactly what they are doing with gold right now through variations of rehypotecation and fractional reserve banking. And it's all legal, albeit completely immoral.

The big problem with this is that my little scheme is creating the illusion that there are more coins in circulation than there really are. And the more paper coin I sell, the more negatively the bitcoin price is affected.

There are two ways this scam can ever end. Either everyone smartens up, or everyone decide to cash in their certificates. And neither ever happens in this day and age. And if it does happen, government will just bail me out. Cuz, ya know, I'm too big to fail, trickle down economics, and all that nonsense.

I understand that you think regulation and Wall Street money would bring awareness towards bitcoin, legitimize it, and act as publicity for Bitcoin.

But it won't. All it will do is legitimize paper coin. And that will have the same effect as what paper gold does to actual gold: divert potential gold investors towards paper gold.

For every guy buying an actual coin, there would likely be an other 20 guys buying paper coin.

Without Wall Street, everyone who invests ends up investing directly in Bitcoin. But Wall Street just steals some of that investment money via paper coin.

This is exactly how the gold market works right now. The price of gold is actually strictly engineered and controlled. Wall Street would do the same thing with Bitcoin.

Quote
A couple of lawsuits and a dozen of angry dudes (like Bitfinexd one) will do just wonders in this regard in this epoch.

I'm not aware of what event you are talking about here. So I can't speak to that.

Quote
Obviously, you are confusing stocks with derivatives here, investors with speculators

While the former do care if they buy real value or paper shit

It doesn't matter if some people care about having the keys when investing. All tgat matters is tgat some investors will be lured away from Bitcoin and into paper coin.

This is what Wall Street does best - offer fake investments, a.ka. derivatives. And that's how they collapsed the entire housing market in 2008 while reaping insane profits. But based on your logic, the 2008 housing bubble didn't happen because most people who invest in a home can see they hace an actual home to invest in.

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Bitcoin is not gold (and I won't get tired repeating it)

Thanx for the tip.

I'm not talking about gold. I'm talking about what Wall Street did to gold. And what they will do to Bitcoin.

I know the difference between a puppy and a kitten. But if your next door neighbor is strangling kittens for fun, it might not be a good idea to let him play with your dog.

The point here is this. Imagine that ten people are getting ready to invest in Bitcoin right now. All they can do is buy and sell bitcoin, or mine, or whatever they wish to do to aquire actual Bitcoin. Doesn't matter if 5 out of these ten people are retards willing to buy anything with a B on it instead of actual Bitcoin. All they can do is buy Bitcoin, period.

But once Wall Street is regulated and offering paper coin, some of these ten guys will be fooled by it. And even if only two of them are dumb enough to buy paper coin, that's still two investors taken away from Bitcoin, and two investors creating the illusion of an increased supply of Bitcoin.
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