Tracking the Trust System's Stupid Shit

[philipma1957]

I think that it is almost impossible to create a good trust system - look at the problems that Ebay has with theirs. One solution is to have a full time staff member to create and monitor a trust system. This would be rather like a credit rating, but there is a cost associated with this, and also the risk of legal action over some rankings. The other problem is that whilst account sales are allowed, then you cannot rely on the current trust rating for a sold account.

The best use of the trust system is for members to decide on a couple of members they respect, and to see who they trust in a trade or exchange.

You would need more then one staff member.

Two for English posts.

And some kind of setup for other languages.

I guess the English post guy or girl  could both be fluent in three languages .

So two full time would cover six languages.

[OgNasty]

Surely wasn't the type of talking you were doing in Slack the night of the extortion.  Almost comical how much your tune has changed.

Go on then laughing boy, what was the type of talking I was doing? Can you provide some examples? Or should people just believe you because you are the big great OgNasty, that no mere mortal should ever dare question?

You owe me & Zeroxal an apology for your role in supporting the failed extortion attempt as well as the lies you've repeated about me since and denials only show that you think your behavior is acceptable, which it isn't. 

I've never even had anything like extortion suggested with you, so not sure which crevice you're pulling that chestnut from.

I've given you an apology in the past, regarding the way I would personally insult you, which I stood by until you continuously tried to pin me as some sort of criminal or scammer - neither of which I am. Considering that you keep trying to personally disrespect me by spreading lies about me, I'm by no means going to give you any respect. That will be the last, and only apology you get from me.

To Zeroxal: I'm sorry. I'm sorry that the whole thing happened to you, and I'm sorry that you had to go through what you did. And I'm sorry for if I had any part of it. While I know you will never read this, but I hope that you accept my apology and we can put this whole thing (that you seem to have already moved on from, two years ago) behind us.

I appreciate your apology and I accept it Like you stated, I have moved on on this whole thing years ago.

Just bring some light to the whole case from my point of view:

Although minifrij wasn't directly involved with the whole case, he was pretty active on the side of the case. Instead of actively making subjective claims and accusations, he used information he gathered to come to his own conclusion, while still being very communicative with the ones who were directly involved. Hence the simultaneous actions being taken along with TMAN and Lauda within this forum (thread locking, ...). However, I cannot say for sure if he was assisting the others in their extortion attempt or not, but I can recall that while he tried to be as neutral as possible, his messages on slack were rather supportive to the "extortion ring" (might be because of peer pressure).

Although he never accused me directly, he did publish a thread in indirect efforts to ban my account with the reasoning of ban evasion, before locking it again after we tried to settle the case privately instead of making wild accusations throughout the forum... He reopened a thread requesting for me to be banned after I told him that theymos has cleared me of previous rule-breakings, just to have an official proof posted publicly.

Some could say that the possible threat of an account ban proposed by minifrij might be part of the whole extortion. But for me this whole thing has been settled years ago and in my eyes, minifrij has tried to be as neutral as possible in contrast to the others who just tried to hurt my reputation using their "witch hunt" method of scam accusations.

--

I can vouch for Og for being very supportive in such a situation while other people who trusted me previously were blinded by those fake accusations. He tried to be objective as possible and tried to cheer me up through the whole witch hunt. People who are still accusing Og for running a ponzi or being a trust abuser are like the witch hunters who tried to hurt me. There is a reason why his trust allows him to be a treasurer of this forum.

Ya, the crazy thing is that minifrij apologizes, and then continues his attacks if you don't obey his commands...  Do you know how many times he's pretended to apologize, removed feedback, and then replaced it with nonsense ratings like the most recent here:



It's this constant attacking of innocent people over a period of years for pointing out his misbehavior and lack of trustworthiness that honestly is more concerning than the half-witted attempts to silence an extortion victim.  He is clearly the guilty party in this situation, but yet it's my trust rating that is marked negative as he replaces his feedback regularly to give it more visibility.  This is the sort of behavior that is detrimental to the trust system and he should be removed from DT2 for it.  The trust system needs to be cleansed of users who do not follow it's intent and those who enable this behavior.

[minifrij]

I appreciate your apology and I accept it Like you stated, I have moved on on this whole thing years ago.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

Although minifrij wasn't directly involved with the whole case, he was pretty active on the side of the case. Instead of actively making subjective claims and accusations, he used information he gathered to come to his own conclusion, while still being very communicative with the ones who were directly involved. Hence the simultaneous actions being taken along with TMAN and Lauda within this forum (thread locking, ...). However, I cannot say for sure if he was assisting the others in their extortion attempt or not, but I can recall that while he tried to be as neutral as possible, his messages on slack were rather supportive to the "extortion ring" (might be because of peer pressure).

I must admit that I made judgement too quickly in your case (mostly because of being swept up in all the commotion). I can do nothing but apologize for this, and due to it I've not gone into the 'scam-hunter' area since.

Although he never accused me directly, he did publish a thread in indirect efforts to ban my account with the reasoning of ban evasion, before locking it again after we tried to settle the case privately instead of making wild accusations throughout the forum... He reopened a thread requesting for me to be banned after I told him that theymos has cleared me of previous rule-breakings, just to have an official proof posted publicly.

And, I still stand by making this thread as I did at the time (hence it being reopened once the whole thing had settled down, until there was a confirmation by a staff member). I hope that you know that it wasn't personal, and in the same situation - at the same time - I would've made the thread about anyone that openly admitted to such.


So, we now have the following people saying that I'm not guilty (if we take the 'innocent until proven guilty' route):

1. The person that was extorted:

However, I cannot say for sure if he was assisting the others in their extortion attempt or not

2. The extortionist:

The thread, especially the OP, contains highly incorrect information (e.g. minifrij) about the incident.

3: A neutral third party:

#3 I left no rating to minifrij because the connection is not strong enough for it. The timing is odd and Im wary, but its not enough for a rating IMHO.

And yet I am still painted as such. You can bitch about how I revoked my apology after you blatantly disrespected me multiple times, Og, but the rating by you on my profile is a lie and there is no solid proof to support it. The same cannot be said about mine on yours.


Edit - Just to give some proof of how my rating is accurate:

Ya, the crazy thing is that minifrij apologizes, and then continues his attacks if you don't obey his commands...  Do you know how many times he's pretended to apologize, removed feedback, and then replaced it with nonsense ratings like the most recent here:

Once. I sent you an apology once, for using personal insults when talking to you. I've never said that I take back any of the distrust, or actions I've taken towards you. You then continued to call me a scammer and a criminal, which is nothing but unwarranted lies, and so I revoked it.
"Do you know how many times he's pretended to apologize..." seems to imply that is more than once - twisted words to make me look bad.

but yet it's my trust rating that is marked negative as he replaces his feedback regularly to give it more visibility.

I replaced my neutral feedback - which had no effect on your trust score - twice. The negative currently on your profile is the first one that I have ever left you, and will stay there.
"he replaces his feedback regularly to give it more visibility" seems to imply that I am abusing the trust system by replacing a negative feedback - twisted words to make me look bad.

And yet again, you are trying to call on theymos to overrule a decentralized system because you personally dislike the result of it. Get over yourself, you're not special.

[OgNasty]

minifrij, your rating is a joke, and your constant removal/replacing of it because you think you’re special and your ratings should matter more than others show the delusions are all on your side buddy.

[minifrij]

minifrij, your rating is a joke, and your constant removal/replacing of it because you think you’re special and your ratings should matter more than others show the delusions are all on your side buddy.

Then provide proof of your claims, for once, so people actually believe you. It's not a difficult concept, and you might actually get somewhere if you did it.

There's a reason you were booted off of DT1, and it's not because the system is wrong.


Your obvious trolling is obvious. I'm a fool for thinking you could ever have the humility to admit you were wrong.

[Vod]

minifrij, your rating is a joke, and your constant removal/replacing of it because you think you’re special and your ratings should matter more than others show the delusions are all on your side buddy.

How many times have you added / removed Lauda from your abusive trust list, scammer?  

Your obvious trolling is obvious. I'm a fool for thinking you could ever have the humility to admit you were wrong.

He never will remove anyone willingly.  He will just lie about it. 

[OgNasty]

And that ladies and gentlemen is the Trust System’s Stupid Shit.

Thanks for playing.

[Vod]

And that ladies and gentlemen is the Trust System’s Stupid Shit.

Thanks for playing.

Now OG starts a new game... repeated threads and drama where he cherry picks words to cover his lies.

Since OG's trust abuse can't be noticed as easily, we decided to stop using trust and argue forever. 

[OgNasty]

And that ladies and gentlemen is the Trust System’s Stupid Shit.

Thanks for playing.

Now OG starts a new game... repeated threads and drama where he cherry picks words to cover his lies.

Since OG's trust abuse can't be noticed as easily, we decided to stop using trust and argue forever. 

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[marcotheminer]

Ok first off, thank you for being willing to consider. Though understand that most people on this forum can't formulate a genuine opinion/conclusion by themselves so they copy whatever person makes the first move ("oh yeah, that seems right, I second the notion" kind of bullshit). This is not directed to anyone, just a general observation I've made. Next, they stick to their opinions like glue - look into the history of some of my trust-leavers you'll see how arrogant some are (pots calling the kettle black? are we all in the wrong? probably..).

Quit lying marco. I have revised my feedback once as did some others. How many third, fourth, nth chances do you need? Had you stopped fucking around with exit-scam-sized loans you'd still have a positive trust rating. You know you lost your argument when your only defense is to make up an army of straw people. And yes, the overwhelming consensus is that you're wrong but as you said multiple times those ratings don't prevent you from getting loans so why don't you carry on with that and stop whining.

"Carry on", through bullshit? Yeah, I'm doing so thanks - still more ideal to have a proper reflection on here. It's basically a second chance and just because a handful of people after reading the opinions of the same handful of people let their Crypto paranoia overcome them doesn't mean there is "overwhelming consensus".

[The-One-Above-All]

minifrij, your rating is a joke, and your constant removal/replacing of it because you think you’re special and your ratings should matter more than others show the delusions are all on your side buddy.

How many times have you added / removed Lauda from your abusive trust list, scammer?  

Your obvious trolling is obvious. I'm a fool for thinking you could ever have the humility to admit you were wrong.

He never will remove anyone willingly.  He will just lie about it.  

The trust systems stupid shit = The trust system . Or rather the merit system which is now also the trust system.

What VOD says may be true in part, but it is not OGnasty's fault. I blame THEYMOS for this absolute mess. He sat on his hands for months watching OBSERVABLY untrustworthy scammers and liars gang up and gradually spoil the trust of  honest members that never scammed any person here. To the point now that a LARGE sign appears at the top of the page saying this thread is started by a SCAMMER? Also VOD is observably guilty of the same thing. VOD admits lauda or atriz have deserved red trust before but says he dare not give them red trust because he can not do so without them painting him red and ruining his own account. That is how it read to us anyway. So no double standards here VOD. The trust systems design prevents scammers getting tagged in some instances. Or forces removal of their tags once they get enough leverage on you. This is the problem with allowing scammers and their ass lickers on to DT1.

but this latest drama with Lauda has opened my eyes a bit...

Yeah, I've distanced myself with her.  What can you do?  You speak out and you get negative trust...

How do I defriend Lauda without getting negative trust from her and ruining five years?

Do you think it’s acceptable that Lauda hasn’t tagged aTriz yet? Do you think there is any reason why everyone shouldn’t tag aTriz for what he did?

Let me answer that this way - how can I leave negative trust for either of them without ruining my account?

As for your account being ruined if you tag one of them, I’m well aware. I guess the difference is that I do what I feel is right regardless of how it may effect me, and you appear to be having your true opinions silenced out of fear. So forgive me if I take your criticisms with a grain of salt.

Ognasty runs a business , he is likely responsible for others investments. He is trapped by these broken and shitty merit and trust systems and those that self enabled their own entrenchment in the DT network via the observably gamed and broken metric of the subjective misleading merit system.

So faced with being BRANDED a scammer and risking the investments of others by an observable bunch of scammers and liars and their ever growing bunch of "merit powered up" ass lickers and loyal dogs. I guess his only choice was to capitulate and say fuck it under these pseudo decentralized gamed systems with no single point of accountability, I can not beat them so I must join with them or appear to join with them for now.

That was perhaps the wise play with investors concerned, but it certainly now has left him open to criticism. One simply does not go from being adamant that a member is "filthy dirty" with observable multiple instances of lying, scamming, extortion, trust abuse, and shady escrow dealings to saying " oh well they said they will not do anything like that again" so I decided to leave the entire community vulnerable to WHEN they do do it again? rock and a hard place comes to mind. Do we believe ognasty believes Lauda is safe to the community and is not a scammer FUCK NO!!

POOR move by OgNasty. But what else could the poor wretch do?  Theymos was seemingly happy for months to watch OG's account get ruined in the name of some strange experiment in pseudo decentralizing trust whilst essentially handing it over to OBSERVABLY dirty and treacherous scum and their supporters that are only entrenching themselves deeper daily.  Someone that is guilty of ALL of those scamming, extorting, lying, shady escrow, flagrant trust abuse is glowing 300 green POSTIVE trust. WTF is this board doing? It is setting members up to GET SCAMMED.  

How many more times could OGnasty have indirectly pleaded for help from Theymos and complained that DT was infested with observably corrupt and scamming dirt bags??? He is partially to blame too. Being too much of an ass kisser to authority does not help authority "oh perhaps it will improve" "oh perhaps he has his own reasons"  "perhaps this is early teething problems" . It fails to help highlight obvious flaws. The creator of any system wants to give their systems a chance to work and will be unrealistic regarding its performance and potential. Better to hit them with the truth. Those systems can never work as they are and are completely dangerous and misleading and crush free speech with no single point of accountability. "meh all my buddies are getting away with it I will get away with it too" then if questioned we all stick together and win through force of numbers?? theymos won't do anything about it except make another post we can ignore. Lauda reads it and says fuck off. I will red trust who I like with no evidence other than they tried to mention things I want to remain hidden. LOL : "I have no need then to change ANY of my ratings"

Anyone telling the truth and presenting these observable instances is immediately painted red as a "scammer"??

Man up Theymos, tell these OBSERVABLE dirt bags : red trust only scammers and those you can present a STRONG case have scammed or intend to scam or you with be BLACKLISTED immediately.  Linking merit to trust was the most crazy thing I have witnessed on this board. You would have to have rocks in your head to think that was the single metric to represent trust here. I mean look at the results so far? people who greedily give all the merits to each other and all spamming gambling and mixing sigs for max payout are obviously the most trustworthy real enthusiasts who care about the community and not just self enriching themselves?? makes perfect sense OR DOES IT?

Theymos is ultimately responsible as the warden of this board and his decentralized experiment has FAILED. Merit is the carrot , red trust is the stick to create an echo chamber and a place for them to act as they wish with impunity . BOTH carrot and stick  mostly controlled by the same group of observable liars, scammers, trust abusers, and their supporters , total collusion no decentralization. BYE BYE free speech. The financial incentive to abuse the fragile systems is clear.

Everyone will eventually face the same choice as OGnasty you can not currently beat them they control the keys to DT1 via merit allocation which is subjective and can not be questioned, join with them for merits, join with them for paid2post, for trading, for an easy life, maybe even be one of their supporters on DT even if you only been here a few months if you really ass kiss and demonstrate you will back their actions,  Or see your account ruined, kiss goodbye to merits, paid2post and trading and an easy life here.

The only people that are free to speak the truth are those that don't care too much for red trust, no paid2post, no trading, no merits and a tough time here. Those are few and far between if any.

I am not anti theymos in that we feel he is not intentionally destroying the boards free speech. I am anti theymos's systems merit and DT creations. The long game is too long, the start was too poor. You start off on that fucked trajectory there is no pulling it back for a LONG time. DT selection process could work better if there was a more sensible metric or combination of metrics to base it on. Merit is broken and beyond help. Restrict it to snr rank and below after that decouple it from rank.

It is like a reasonably "fair" dictator saying " for the good of my kingdom I will now give over power to the very most observably dishonest, untrustworthy and greedy generals , they are free to select only those they feel best suited to help them govern you all, bye bye " err yes btw " generals please be good"  IF he had given power to his more fair and honest generals then perhaps things could have gone better. Still people will devolve to greed and self interest within a certain time frame regardless.

When you have one of the worst and most observably dangerous members glowing 300 green and honest members glowing -2000 red+ you know you fucked up.

Ognasty is not a scammer but he was forced into bed with one now and most others will red will gladly capitulate to get rid of "their own" red trust.  Soon only we willl remain honest and loyal to satoshi's vision. Pushing for transparent,fair and equal treatment of all members, where scammers are correctly called scammers and honest members are correctly recognized as honest members. We like red trust from abusers it serves our purpose. We like the hate of scammers,liars, extortionists and their ass kissers.

[OgNasty]

I wasn't forced into anything.  I'm trying to do my part to heal tensions around here.  Meanwhile idiots like minifrij are trying harder than ever to cause problems.  These users who can't get on board with the trust system being a system of trust and not an extortion or slander tool need to be removed from it.  It would be nice if that happened before another year of this nonsense.  If you've included users like TMAN, minifrij, Last of the V8's, into your trust network...  YOU ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE TRUST NETWORK.

[suchmoon]

If you've included users like TMAN, minifrij, Last of the V8's, into your trust network...  YOU ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE TRUST NETWORK.

Interesting criteria but you forgot owlcatz. He also posted a negative rating for you, therefore must be a very bad person.

Or it could be that you're the problem.

[OgNasty]

If you've included users like TMAN, minifrij, Last of the V8's, into your trust network...  YOU ARE THE PROBLEM WITH THE TRUST NETWORK.

Interesting criteria but you forgot owlcatz. He also posted a negative rating for you, therefore must be a very bad person.

Or it could be that you're the problem.

Oh ya, owlcatz should be on that list also.

I hope one day you stop being such a prick suchmoon, or if you're gonna be a prick, at least do SOMETHING for Bitcoin.  Anything.

I don't think I'm part of the problem, and I don't think the Administrators of this forum believe that, nor do a majority of users.  theymos has distrusted TMAN for god's sake and users like Last of the V8's are only in DT2 because of TMAN's inclusion, how much more guidance do you need?  Those users should clearly be excluded from DT.

[minifrij]

I hope one day you stop being such a prick suchmoon

Lead by example. Give some proof for the lies you spread about me.

I don't think I'm part of the problem

Of course you don't, trolls are rarely self aware.

theymos has distrusted TMAN for god's sake and users like Last of the V8's are only in DT2 because of TMAN's inclusion, how much more guidance do you need?  Those users should clearly be excluded from DT.

So essentially, you want a centralized system that relies entirely on one person's judgement? Why are you interested in Bitcoin again?

[suchmoon]

I hope one day you stop being such a prick suchmoon, or if you're gonna be a prick, at least do SOMETHING for Bitcoin.  Anything.

You do realize that not everyone feels the need to brag about their "doings"? Probably not.

I don't think I'm part of the problem, and I don't think the Administrators of this forum believe that, nor do a majority of users.  theymos has distrusted TMAN for god's sake and users like Last of the V8's are only in DT2 because of TMAN's inclusion, how much more guidance do you need?  Those users should clearly be excluded from DT.

Last of the V8s is not in TMAN's trust list. Kinda hard to take your lecturing seriously when you keep making shit up.

As far as theymos guidance - I don't think the intent is to make everyone's list exactly the same as his.

[Vod]

I wasn't forced into anything.  I'm trying to do my part to heal tensions around here.

no force.  You had as choice like everyone else to smarten up or lose DT1 lottery privileges.  If you want to be in DT someday, then yes, you were forced to remove your tags.  

you are attempting to twist words like everything else.

[TMAN]

I'm trying to do my part to heal tensions around here.

Then stop fucking posting my name, I dislike you with a passion, you are an egotistical trumpesque narcissist with very questionable business practices, but I have done my upmost to avoid you for a long time now and yet  you are mentioning me, fridj, Lauda and vod in every other post?

OG, grow the fuck up man. Like seriously fella move on, get off the high horse and go about your day, stick those you dislike on ignore and crack on with your club and all the other great things you do for bitcoin that you keep talking about. I know you wont, but ill tell you what I told my youngest kid "actions count louder than words"

so OG if you really believe this

I'm trying to do my part to heal tensions around here.

please leave me out of your mini midlife crisis

[bones261]

Last of the V8s is not in TMAN's trust list. Kinda hard to take your lecturing seriously when you keep making shit up.

     Yes, Last of the V8s happens to be one of the "stars" of the WO thread. I'm sure many of the people who have included him on their trust lists have absolutely nothing personal against Ognasty. In fact, I know of one person who has included him on the list that recently gave Ognasty a positive rating, after buying one of his coins.

[OgNasty]

I don't think I'm part of the problem, and I don't think the Administrators of this forum believe that, nor do a majority of users.  theymos has distrusted TMAN for god's sake and users like Last of the V8's are only in DT2 because of TMAN's inclusion, how much more guidance do you need?  Those users should clearly be excluded from DT.

Last of the V8s is not in TMAN's trust list. Kinda hard to take your lecturing seriously when you keep making shit up.

As far as theymos guidance - I don't think the intent is to make everyone's list exactly the same as his.

My apologies.  You are right, I mistyped.  I meant Hellot, who I caught trying to scam my escrow service: http://loyce.club/trust/2019-04-27_Sat_21.41h/351430.html

It's hard for me to keep all the trust abusers straight sometimes, especially when their lists change daily depending on who they're targeting that day.  Thank you for correcting me.

TMAN, I'm not going to go away.  I'm actually feeling more empowered than ever and fairly confident that your time on DT is nearing it's end.