[BCN] Bytecoin. Secure, private, untraceable since 2012

[knightcoin]

Any CPU only coin is useless.  Just a get rich quick scheme for botnet owners controlling 50,000 computers.  Either the algorithm has to be changed, or it has to go myriadcoin style somehow.

Nah ...people get scare too much about botnets (risk managent) ... I know many IPS networks operators that check for botnets on daily basis ... bit old but still a nice paper about it .. http://www.enisa.europa.eu/activities/Resilience-and-CIIP/critical-applications/botnets/botnets-measurement-detection-disinfection-and-defence

Botnets can be shutdown as soon as they discovered .. How can you shutdown a huge gpu/asic Farm

[eizh]

Any CPU only coin is useless.  Just a get rich quick scheme for botnet owners controlling 50,000 computers.  Either the algorithm has to be changed, or it has to go myriadcoin style somehow.

I mined BMR on day 2 and got 0.  God forbid someone tries to CPU mine it a month from now.  Coin is dead in the water until it's not CPU only.

That's called bad luck. I mined on day 2 with a stock CPU and found a couple blocks, which is about what's expected.

[x0rcist]

I am total noob and don't know anything about this, but maybe you all can play with this http://www.gematrix.org

This is funny lol:
135   I am
477   President Obama
340   Image of satan
9      I
1354773409
I am President Obama Image of satan I

i have another option:  

it is the epoch time of block 109176,

Code:

"timestamp": 1354773409,

you can add msgs to a block when you've found one
if you want to decode you should look at the github code
search for messages or extra_nonce

[the_darkness]

Any CPU only coin is useless.  Just a get rich quick scheme for botnet owners controlling 50,000 computers.  Either the algorithm has to be changed, or it has to go myriadcoin style somehow.

I mined BMR on day 2 and got 0.  God forbid someone tries to CPU mine it a month from now.  Coin is dead in the water until it's not CPU only.

What kind of setup are you using? I have a medium spec Sandy Bridge i5 and found two blocks today at current diff, so either you have terrible luck or bad equipment.

[knightcoin]

Any CPU only coin is useless.  Just a get rich quick scheme for botnet owners controlling 50,000 computers.  Either the algorithm has to be changed, or it has to go myriadcoin style somehow.

I mined BMR on day 2 and got 0.  God forbid someone tries to CPU mine it a month from now.  Coin is dead in the water until it's not CPU only.

That's called bad luck. I mined on day 2 with a stock CPU and found a couple blocks, which is about what's expected.

I like the idea of CPU mining sounds more fair to me although I don't have scientific data to prove my hypotheses. But Mining is a 24h a day job intensive CPU usage..., so if I have a 10000 nodes botnet I would not risk to loose it (except for a very valuable coin) ... much better sell or rent a botnet on black markert to ddos targets ...

[the_darkness]

Any CPU only coin is useless.  Just a get rich quick scheme for botnet owners controlling 50,000 computers.  Either the algorithm has to be changed, or it has to go myriadcoin style somehow.

I mined BMR on day 2 and got 0.  God forbid someone tries to CPU mine it a month from now.  Coin is dead in the water until it's not CPU only.

That's called bad luck. I mined on day 2 with a stock CPU and found a couple blocks, which is about what's expected.

I like the idea of CPU mining sounds more fair to me although I don't have scientific data to prove my hypotheses. But Mining is a 24h a day job intensive CPU usage..., so if I have a 10000 nodes botnet I would not risk to loose it (except for a very valuable coin) ... much better sell or rent a botnet on black markert to ddos targets ...

There's an interesting discussion of the merits of CPU mining in the Cryptonote whitepaper. They don't necessarily inherently support CPU only, but essentially wanted to return to the original proposal of Satoshi of one CPU = one vote. Their goal with the PoW was to minimize the relative advantage of any type (CPU, GPU, FPGA, ASIC) of hardware.

I agree with you re: botnets. It seems highly improbable to me that the botnets are sitting here monitoring a bitcoin forum waiting to flood into a week-old currency that currently has no method of exchange. As you've mentioned there are a lot more profitable ways a malevolent user can use a botnet. And if they did want to mine, why wouldn't they target something like DRK that can be profitably CPU mined and has direct exchange for BTC already in place?

[sweeppicking]

Any CPU only coin is useless.  Just a get rich quick scheme for botnet owners controlling 50,000 computers.  Either the algorithm has to be changed, or it has to go myriadcoin style somehow.

I mined BMR on day 2 and got 0.  God forbid someone tries to CPU mine it a month from now.  Coin is dead in the water until it's not CPU only.

That's called bad luck. I mined on day 2 with a stock CPU and found a couple blocks, which is about what's expected.

I like the idea of CPU mining sounds more fair to me although I don't have scientific data to prove my hypotheses. But Mining is a 24h a day job intensive CPU usage..., so if I have a 10000 nodes botnet I would not risk to loose it (except for a very valuable coin) ... much better sell or rent a botnet on black markert to ddos targets ...

Dude im using i7 4770k @3.9ghz and test it at 4600 ghz with my WC system. i think already foun like 4000 blocks, less than a day of mining.
Could it be posible or im wrong?

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Any CPU only coin is useless.  Just a get rich quick scheme for botnet owners controlling 50,000 computers.  Either the algorithm has to be changed, or it has to go myriadcoin style somehow.

I mined BMR on day 2 and got 0.  God forbid someone tries to CPU mine it a month from now.  Coin is dead in the water until it's not CPU only.

Do you think Bitcoin has good wealth distribution? Do you think it's a good thing that all newly minted coins are immediately distributed to the wealthy folks who own ASIC farms? Can you explain the economic theory that makes your statements even remotely believable?

"OMG botnets" seems to be the only argument anyone can ever devise against CPU-only coins, and frankly, it's tiring.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I'm not saying BCN is perfect. It's a great proof of concept for annonymous txs but I think big improvements can be made in terms of the economics.

I'm working on a BCN fork that will simplify and polish the coin's usage to better prepare it for long term use as an exchange medium. Don't expect anything revolutionary in terms of the tech, just a major improvement to the distribution method and miner payouts. Of course, no pre-mine or taxes or IPO. Also, it will launch with an easy GUI miner and wallet, and it will have a name that people can take seriously. Two people are working on it, but we'd like one more dev on board, so if anyone is interested, PM me.

[smooth]

I'm working on a BCN fork that will simplify and polish the coin's usage to better prepare it for long term use as an exchange medium. Don't expect anything revolutionary in terms of the tech, just a major improvement to the distribution method and miner payouts. Of course, no pre-mine or taxes or IPO. Also, it will launch with an easy GUI miner and wallet, and it will have a name that people can take seriously. Two people are working on it, but we'd like one more dev on board, so if anyone is interested, PM me.

Is is really wise to create Yet Another Fork? Bitmonero had a clean launch and has decent economics. True it didn't launch with a GUI but the reward schedule on it is so slow there is really no harm in releasing those soon. Less than 0.1% of the coin has been mined; it's essentially still in launch phase.

There are a few things I would tweak but its okay and not worth another fork. There are a few of us talking about renaming it and improving the marketing a bit without making any other changes. That has a better chance to overcome BCN's lead than throwing a million new forks out there (Honey Boo Boo coin, etc.).

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I'm working on a BCN fork that will simplify and polish the coin's usage to better prepare it for long term use as an exchange medium. Don't expect anything revolutionary in terms of the tech, just a major improvement to the distribution method and miner payouts. Of course, no pre-mine or taxes or IPO. Also, it will launch with an easy GUI miner and wallet, and it will have a name that people can take seriously. Two people are working on it, but we'd like one more dev on board, so if anyone is interested, PM me.

Is is really wise to create Yet Another Fork? Bitmonero had a clean launch and has decent economics. True it didn't launch with a GUI but the reward schedule on it is so slow there is really no harm in releasing those soon. Less than 0.1% of the coin has been mined; it's essentially still in launch phase.

There are a few things I would tweak but its okay and not worth another fork. There are a few of us talking about renaming it and improving the marketing a bit without making any other changes. That has a better chance to overcome BCN's lead than throwing a million new forks out there (Honey Boo Boo coin, etc.).

Regarding Bitmonero, I wouldn't consider Bitcoin style distribution to be "good economics." We've learned a lot in 5 years and should definitely be doing things differently to improve adoption and increase trade. Also, most coins (including BTC) have characteristics that favor treating them as investments rather than as a medium of exchange.

Do we need another fork? Absolutely. We need a coin that will be just as accessible in 50 years as it will be the day it launches. I don't think we've seen that yet, and even if we have, there's nothing wrong with letting the market decide what characteristics it wants in a currency. The more forks, the better. Let the cream rise to the top.

[eizh]

I'm working on a BCN fork that will simplify and polish the coin's usage to better prepare it for long term use as an exchange medium. Don't expect anything revolutionary in terms of the tech, just a major improvement to the distribution method and miner payouts. Of course, no pre-mine or taxes or IPO. Also, it will launch with an easy GUI miner and wallet, and it will have a name that people can take seriously. Two people are working on it, but we'd like one more dev on board, so if anyone is interested, PM me.

Is is really wise to create Yet Another Fork? Bitmonero had a clean launch and has decent economics. True it didn't launch with a GUI but the reward schedule on it is so slow there is really no harm in releasing those soon. Less than 0.1% of the coin has been mined; it's essentially still in launch phase.

There are a few things I would tweak but its okay and not worth another fork. There are a few of us talking about renaming it and improving the marketing a bit without making any other changes. That has a better chance to overcome BCN's lead than throwing a million new forks out there (Honey Boo Boo coin, etc.).

I've actually realized that the main reason bitcointalk has a culture that demands immediate GUI mining isn't from some egalitarian philosophy. It's so that everyone can solo instamine. This comes from the poor retargeting used by LTC, which it passed on to all of its clones. Even "fair" launches like Vertcoin had enormous numbers of coins mined in the first 24h (20% of current supply, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=572265.0). This all changed about 2 months ago when better retargeting algorithms started propagating. Is GUI important? Yes, particularly for regular sending/receiving use. For mining, less so. After all, most mining is done through cgminer 3.7.2 and its derivatives, which are command line, so that can't be much of a show stopper. Even all the total non-techies mining DOGE managed to learn how to use that.

This is all irrelevant with CryptoNote: you simply can't instamine it with the difficulty retargeting it uses. We even had someone actually complaining about this lack of ability to instamine. Mining is proceeding cleanly as the CryptoNote emission formula intended.

I welcome your CN clone because it spreads the word. But watch someone follow you with a "fairer" launch. And then a fairer^2 launch and then a fairer^3 launch. Beating the first-mover advantage is hard, but best of luck to you.

[eizh]

Regarding Bitmonero, I wouldn't consider Bitcoin style distribution to be "good economics." We've learned a lot in 5 years and should definitely be doing things differently to improve adoption and increase trade. Also, most coins (including BTC) have characteristics that favor treating them as investments rather than as a medium of exchange.

Do we need another fork? Absolutely. We need a coin that will be just as accessible in 50 years as it will be the day it launches. I don't think we've seen that yet, and even if we have, there's nothing wrong with letting the market decide what characteristics it wants in a currency. The more forks, the better. Let the cream rise to the top.

This is actually interesting. Do you mean a non-decreasing block reward? Or significant perpetual inflation of some other sort?

I definitely agree that the BTC model is more investment than exchange medium, although that's a major part of the reason it took off.

[smooth]

Regarding Bitmonero, I wouldn't consider Bitcoin style distribution to be "good economics." We've learned a lot in 5 years and should definitely be doing things differently to improve adoption and increase trade. Also, most coins (including BTC) have characteristics that favor treating them as investments rather than as a medium of exchange.

Do we need another fork? Absolutely. We need a coin that will be just as accessible in 50 years as it will be the day it launches. I don't think we've seen that yet, and even if we have, there's nothing wrong with letting the market decide what characteristics it wants in a currency. The more forks, the better. Let the cream rise to the top.

This is actually interesting. Do you mean a non-decreasing block reward? Or significant perpetual inflation of some other sort?

I definitely agree that the BTC model is more investment than exchange medium, although that's a major part of the reason it took off.

There are room for all kinds, as he said. That I agree with. I also agree with you that BTC's investment model is part of its success, and it should be self evident that its success far eclipses all others. Is that solely first-mover advantage or does it have something to do with the economics? I don't know. Let the best coin win. Every coin that dies makes the survivors stronger. In fact you can argue that's the only thing that makes them strong. We'll see how it works out.

EDIT: I'll add this though, which I mentioned in my previous post. The more the clones fight it out among themselves, the more it favors the original. It's already hard to overcome first-mover advantage. No coin has ever done that to Bitcoin, despite all trying a huge range of changes to economics, marketing, etc.  For that matter, no alt has surpassed Litecoin, which very nearly an exact Bitcoin clone. Most of them just have, at best, a flash of success and then slowly die. That's fine if you want to pump-and-dump. It's not fine if you want to actually accomplish something beyond that.

If what you are trying to do is help Bytecoin stay on top of the cryptonote-based coins, then more cryptonote clones is probably the way to go. If you don't want to do that, then you might consider the unintended consequences of more clones.

[pozmu]

Do not rename BMR, Bitmonero is much better than another "xxxcoin", "monero" is somewhat similar to "coin" in many languages and for sure it's less awkward to pronounce - remember, not everybody speaks English.

As for improvements GUI wallet is a must, but also better ANN posts are needed - current ANNs ignore the fact that 99% of readers have no idea about BCN (which makes me think they were written by CryptoNote guys).
Logo, website + some basic services, including places where you can actually spend your coins, should be created as well.

PS And if you want fair distribution, look at CounterParty and Proof of Burn - basically a honest version of IPO.

[CoinExpert]

Is it just me or doesn't it seem strange to release a coin that has been mined privately for 2 years and requires 1.50GB bootstrap for the blockchain???

[smooth]

I'm not really that strongly in favor of renaming it. I agree with you that not everyone speaks English and monero isn't bad globally.

But I do think the marketing of BMR from launch onward has been atrocious. No web site is inexcusable (I consider no GUI to be excusable because its actually somewhat hard to create a GUI but it is trivial to create a web site -- this is just a pure screwup), and now someone has domain squatted the bitmonero domain names. Those should have been registered before releasing the name, yet another bungle in the launch of this coin.

So I think this coin need a complete marketing revamp, and rebranding is a good way to do that.

Do not rename BMR, Bitmonero is much better than another "xxxcoin", "monero" is somewhat similar to "coin" in many languages and for sure it's less awkward to pronounce - remember, not everybody speaks English.

As for improvements GUI wallet is a must, but also better ANN posts are needed - current ANNs ignore the fact that 99% of readers have no idea about BCN (which makes me think they were written by CryptoNote guys).
Logo, website + some basic services, including places where you can actually spend your coins, should be created as well.

PS And if you want fair distribution, look at CounterParty and Proof of Burn - basically a honest version of IPO.

[knightcoin]

less than 12 hours on my old i7

but minergate asking for 10% ?? 10% 

anyways very easy to install on linux mint live just 2 clicks   ...

[smooth]

but minergate asking for 10% ?? 10% 

Just solo mine. Maybe you don't get coins every single day, but so what. Give it a few days and you'll get very likely get block for yourself (~120K), no 10%

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Regarding Bitmonero, I wouldn't consider Bitcoin style distribution to be "good economics." We've learned a lot in 5 years and should definitely be doing things differently to improve adoption and increase trade. Also, most coins (including BTC) have characteristics that favor treating them as investments rather than as a medium of exchange.

Do we need another fork? Absolutely. We need a coin that will be just as accessible in 50 years as it will be the day it launches. I don't think we've seen that yet, and even if we have, there's nothing wrong with letting the market decide what characteristics it wants in a currency. The more forks, the better. Let the cream rise to the top.

This is actually interesting. Do you mean a non-decreasing block reward? Or significant perpetual inflation of some other sort?

That is exactly what I mean. Wow. I thought I was being vague. You either took a random stab in the dark or you see the fundamental flaw of almost every cryptocurrency out there. A fixed money supply with a decreasing block reward is destined to fail. You can't have proof of work with infinite work and only finite proof. What happens when the proof runs out? Miners won't work for free, and transaction fees won't cut it by themselves. New work must yield new proof.

There are room for all kinds, as he said. That I agree with. I also agree with you that BTC's investment model is part of its success, and it should be self evident that its success far eclipses all others. Is that solely first-mover advantage or does it have something to do with the economics? I don't know. Let the best coin win. Every coin that dies makes the survivors stronger. In fact you can argue that's the only thing that makes them strong. We'll see how it works out.

I think the popularity growth of said coins has more to do with a lack of understanding of the economics than the long term implications of them. A decentralized, trustless system of exchange sounds great. A fixed money supply that absolutely cannot inflate sounds great... but it's not sustainable, and it definitely won't remain decentralized.

Everyone argues about how coins should be distributed at the beginning (BCN has been out for 2 years and noone knew? How unfair.)  We should be much more concerned with how a coin will be distributed 20 or 30 years from now. Here's a hint: if the difficulty is high and the block reward is low, then the currency is in deep shit.

Unfortunately, the type of coin that sees success in the exchanges is not the type of coin that will succeed long-term as a currency.  We also can't count on the masses to know what is good for them. The masses will always believe in simple logic and only follow what's popular or trending.  They will never engage in the critical thinking required to truly understand how these systems work.  This is why I believe we have a responsibility to know our domain inside and out... because the coins we choose to embrace will be the ones they eventually adopt.