Giving out merit to people you know, acceptable or not?

[eternalgloom]

I'm having a bit of a conundrum here about giving a friend of mine's posts merit.

I'll explain the situation:

So, there's this person who joined Bitcointalk after I suggested it to him, the reason for that was because he wanted to learn more about Bitcoin & talk about the altcoins he's interested in. 
I've met him at least a year ago through Steemit and I know he's just someone who loves to write and have interesting discussions.
His Steemit blog is the complete opposite of spammy, so I thought he'd be a great addition to Bitcointalk.

Now, here's what I'm having trouble with:

I've given some of his posts a couple of merits here and there, not much, I think around 6 in total over a period of like 6 months.
Now, I'm kinda worried that this might be frowned upon.

What are your thoughts about this? I mean, I'd guess it would be okay, as long as I hold his posts to the same standard as other people's posts, right?
Though, it does feel a little bit like collusion to me. Idk, I'm obviously still a little bit biased, because I'm actively looking at his posts (when he's asking me for advice etc.).

I did disclose this when I gave merit to his thread in Beginners & Help:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5146091.msg51252956#msg51252956

I realize I might be a bit late to ask this, since some merits have already been given, but yeah, I hope it's not to late to fix this if it's really an issue.
Honestly, it's better to be honest about this sort of stuff before it comes back to bite me in the....

[suchmoon]

Sending merits to alts is where I draw the line. Meriting friends is fine as long as you're not doing this because they're friends. It might be tricky to avoid bias so make sure to ask yourself: "would I merit this post if it was made by quickhunter" (replace "quickhunter" with the most annoying troll you know).

[Quickseller]

The posts should be objectively good, and have a decent amount of effort put into them.

If you know someone from another place, don’t have any relationship that might be perceived as a conflict of interest, such as a family, romantic, close personal, business or financial relationship, I don’t see any issues with giving merit.

If you have any of the above types of relationships, I would generally avoid giving merit yourself, especially to family members, romantic partners and those you have a close personal relationship with (such as a roommate). For other relationships described above I would generally shy away from giving merit to these people, but if you do, I would hold these people to a higher standard.  

I don’t see an issue with reporting any of the above posts to others and others can make their own judgment on if a post deserves merit.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I mean, I'd guess it would be okay, as long as I hold his posts to the same standard as other people's posts, right?
<snip>
I'm obviously still a little bit biased, because I'm actively looking at his posts (when he's asking me for advice etc.).

Yeah, it's frowned upon but if the posts are actually good and you don't overdo it, I don't think anyone is going to tag you for it.  And yes, you will certainly have a bias since he's your friend, and that's not something you can eliminate entirely.  IMO I probably wouldn't do it if you want to be morally pure (by bitcointalk standards), but if you're worried about consequences I don't suspect there would be any.

Merit abusers rarely get tagged anymore, and if they do then they've usually distributed merits to a slew of alt accounts or friends/family, and it's done for the purpose of helping them rank up.  Or they'll get tagged for selling merits--and even with all of that, it's still hit or miss.  So I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Others might disagree with me, but that's just my opinion.

[akamit]

Meriting your friend's post is not prohibited here...
If your friend(s) make quality posts then I don't see a reason why you shouldn't merit.
But to merit your friend(s), just because they are your friends is unacceptable imo while their posts are shitty.

[hilariousetc]

There's friends and then there's "friends". The trouble is, people always claim it's their "friend" when they get caught sending merit to their alts. Either way, it can still be seen as a bit shady because it's impossible to be impartial and people are more likely to give merit to their friend even when they don't deserve it. Other users are also more likely go unmerited if people constantly give merits to their pals (especially if you're not a merit source). Obviously this situation is a grey area and I think it should be taken on a case by case basis, but personally I think it can still count as abuse if you continually give merit to someone you know personally, though there's no rules against it and knowing someone in real life doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't merit them, but I think there is a real problem with people just meriting their buddies they know in real life and there's been some quite large merit farming exposed by users just passing/laundering merit between their pals/schoolmates/cousins/next door neighbours and that's when it leads to problems and obviously that shouldn't be ok.

This also probably belongs more in Reputation as there aren't really any set in stone rules when giving merit and this sort of merit abuse (if it is indeed abuse) probably isn't going to be acted upon by the admins anyway.

[eternalgloom]

There's friends and then there's "friends". The trouble is, people always claim it's their "friend" when they get caught sending merit to their alts.

That's not an issue in this case, as I could provide public proof that this person definitely is not me. I mean, I'm in Belgium and he's somewhere in the state of Michigan, can't really fake that sorta stuff...

Proof:
me: https://steemit.com/@daan
Them: https://steemit.com/@bozz

Lots of personal blogs from them where their general location is clearly shown, same with my blog, but the more personal ones are further down.

Sending merits to alts is where I draw the line. Meriting friends is fine as long as you're not doing this because they're friends. It might be tricky to avoid bias so make sure to ask yourself: "would I merit this post if it was made by quickhunter" (replace "quickhunter" with the most annoying troll you know).

Yeah that's exactly where I'm stuck, I probably would give similar posts merit as well. Heck, I've given one or two merits for decent one-liner jokes once or twice.
That said, in reality I am probably a bit too biased, whether consciously or unconsciously, to give them any more merit in the future.

It's really what I needed to hear.

I mean, I'd guess it would be okay, as long as I hold his posts to the same standard as other people's posts, right?
<snip>
I'm obviously still a little bit biased, because I'm actively looking at his posts (when he's asking me for advice etc.).

Yeah, it's frowned upon but if the posts are actually good and you don't overdo it, I don't think anyone is going to tag you for it.  And yes, you will certainly have a bias since he's your friend, and that's not something you can eliminate entirely.  IMO I probably wouldn't do it if you want to be morally pure (by bitcointalk standards), but if you're worried about consequences I don't suspect there would be any.

Merit abusers rarely get tagged anymore, and if they do then they've usually distributed merits to a slew of alt accounts or friends/family, and it's done for the purpose of helping them rank up.  Or they'll get tagged for selling merits--and even with all of that, it's still hit or miss.  So I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Others might disagree with me, but that's just my opinion.

Yeah, It's not because of the possible tags that I ask, though that would certainly be bad as well.
It's more about the ethical implication and from what I've gathered, it's not a good idea to do this in the future.

The posts should be objectively good, and have a decent amount of effort put into them.

If you know someone from another place, don’t have any relationship that might be perceived as a conflict of interest, such as a family, romantic, close personal, business or financial relationship, I don’t see any issues with giving merit.

If you have any of the above types of relationships, I would generally avoid giving merit yourself, especially to family members, romantic partners and those you have a close personal relationship with (such as a roommate). For other relationships described above I would generally shy away from giving merit to these people, but if you do, I would hold these people to a higher standard.  

I don’t see an issue with reporting any of the above posts to others and others can make their own judgment on if a post deserves merit.

Well, when you talk about business relationships it gets kinda murky.
We do upvote each other posts on Steemit, so that could possibly be construed as a business relationship.

I don't think I overdid it in the past, but I've already explicitly mentioned (to him) that he's now off to get his own merit
I'm sure he will thrive here eventually without my help.

[DireWolfM14]

What are your thoughts about this? I mean, I'd guess it would be okay, as long as I hold his posts to the same standard as other people's posts, right?

As long as you hold to that philosophy I think you'll be alright.  You might even want to be a little more scrutinous since he's your friend.  Think of it as if you're a teacher and your child is one of your students, you wouldn't want to be accused of showing favoritism to your child.  This concern can lead a teacher to be especially hard on his own child, and expect more from him.  You might want to deploy that strategy with your friends.  If his posts are that good, he'll earn merit regardless, and you won't have to concern yourself with this matter.

Like hilariousetc mentioned, many merit abusers will use the "he's my friend" excuse when they are suspected of giving merit to their own alt accounts.  If someone suspects that you are giving merit to an alt, or even just giving excessive merit to your friends it could adversely affect your reputation.

Slightly off topic, but just a bit:
This reminds me of a scenario that unfolded several months ago where a wife was pissed at her husband because he would not give her merit so she could rank up to Jr.  I think it was right after de-rank-gate.  The way that husband handled the situation is commendable, although he may have had to spend a few nights on the couch.

[hilariousetc]

There's friends and then there's "friends". The trouble is, people always claim it's their "friend" when they get caught sending merit to their alts.

That's not an issue in this case

I'm not saying it is here, but it's where we start to have issues and that's usually the go-to excuse they use when caught. Let's look at this recent case. These two users were exposed as being likely alts and abusing merit:

Accounts connected: wwzsocki (uuid = 131333), crypto mania (uuid = 1774842)

Reason: using multiple accounts, trading merit, self-talking, account hacking, same ethereum addresses

Maybe they are real life friends or maybe they're just alts, but there is evidence tying them together that makes it look like they're alts, but it's certainly not conclusive. Either way this is clear abuse to me because they're just giving themselves merit back and forth for everything:

Merit summary for crypto mania

Merit: 92
Sent in the last 120 days

    May 23, 2019, 11:24:59 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][INV] iBItt - CRYPTO EXCHANGE, ATMs & MONEY Transfer 🌎..!
    May 16, 2019, 03:11:05 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][INV] iBItt - CRYPTO EXCHANGE, ATMs & MONEY Transfer 🌎..!
    May 16, 2019, 12:02:10 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][INV] iBItt - CRYPTO EXCHANGE, ATMs & MONEY Transfer 🌎..!
    May 12, 2019, 02:52:42 AM: 2 to wwzsocki for Virustotal shows threat in Github App for Windows!
    May 09, 2019, 12:39:54 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: [GUIDE]TWIENDS.COM - how to get countless followers on Twitter?
    May 08, 2019, 10:18:38 PM: 2 to wwzsocki for [GUIDE]TWIENDS.COM - get countless followers on Twitter (for Beginners).
    May 01, 2019, 08:31:36 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][INV] iBItt - CRYPTO EXCHANGE, ATMs & MONEY Transfer, CARDS 🌎..!
    April 23, 2019, 09:01:36 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for [GUIDE] Beginners Protect Yourself from Ransomware!!!
    April 17, 2019, 05:49:36 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: [GUIDE]TWIENDS.COM - how to get countless followers on Twitter?
    April 16, 2019, 11:57:03 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: Ice bucket challange ... meh ... Rank up challenge !
    April 09, 2019, 08:23:10 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.
    April 03, 2019, 12:21:28 AM: 1 to Sharon121212 for Re: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.
    April 02, 2019, 07:59:52 PM: 2 to wwzsocki for Re: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.
    March 27, 2019, 01:22:48 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: [Guide] How to stay safe when dealing with exchanges.
    March 24, 2019, 03:28:26 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 21, 2019, 02:12:09 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 15, 2019, 06:31:43 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for Bezpieczeństwo na giełdzie i rady dotyczące obsługi klienta.
    March 11, 2019, 07:07:43 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Bezpieczeństwo na giełdzie i rady dotyczące obsługi klienta.
    March 06, 2019, 09:28:49 PM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: Is Rippel a scam? Shocking Forbes article about XRP !!!
    March 05, 2019, 11:11:46 PM: 1 to forexhercules for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 03, 2019, 09:56:54 AM: 1 to wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform

Received in the last 120 days

    May 23, 2019, 11:12:26 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][INV] iBItt - CRYPTO EXCHANGE, ATMs & MONEY Transfer 🌎..!
    May 21, 2019, 06:25:43 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    May 16, 2019, 08:52:11 AM: 2 from wwzsocki for [Guide] Stay safe when dealing with Exchanges.
    May 15, 2019, 11:23:37 PM: 2 from wwzsocki for Re: [Guide] Stay safe when dealing with Exchanges.
    May 12, 2019, 02:11:28 AM: 2 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    May 10, 2019, 07:57:52 PM: 2 from Halab for Re: [Guide] How to stay safe when dealing with exchanges and their support managers.
    May 09, 2019, 07:46:16 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][INV] iBItt - CRYPTO EXCHANGE, ATMs & MONEY Transfer 🌎..!
    May 08, 2019, 07:10:25 PM: 2 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    May 08, 2019, 07:04:59 PM: 2 from wwzsocki for Re: Ice bucket challange ... meh ... Rank up challenge !
    May 02, 2019, 12:26:25 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [GUIDE]Beginners Protect Yourself from Ransomware!!!
    April 30, 2019, 10:39:50 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][INV] iBItt - CRYPTO EXCHANGE, ATMs & MONEY Transfer 🌎..!
    April 26, 2019, 03:18:03 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [ANN][DLBX] ☰ [ ICO 11|19|2017 - 01|19|2018] ☰ DealBox
    April 22, 2019, 10:13:57 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    April 18, 2019, 05:28:40 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: What next? What do You think about?
    April 17, 2019, 12:13:11 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: What next? What do You think about?
    April 17, 2019, 10:28:22 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: Ice bucket challange ... meh ... Rank up challenge !
    April 16, 2019, 11:31:37 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [Guide] How to stay safe when dealing with exchanges and their support managers.
    April 11, 2019, 01:08:47 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: 🌟🌟[ANN]ATLANT Real Estate Platform| 🌟🌟
    April 09, 2019, 12:05:11 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.
    April 05, 2019, 03:41:42 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: What is a node, full node, masternode and how to make money from it?
    April 02, 2019, 11:22:25 PM: 1 from Sharon121212 for Re: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.
    April 02, 2019, 09:01:30 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: Guide how stay safe on Cryptopia and other exchanges for beginners.
    April 02, 2019, 05:25:56 PM: 4 from dbshck for [Guide] Stay safe when dealing with Exchanges.
    March 27, 2019, 12:51:57 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.
    March 27, 2019, 05:28:52 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.
    March 24, 2019, 12:48:02 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [Guide] How to stay safe when dealing with exchanges and their support managers.
    March 23, 2019, 05:34:58 AM: 1 from forexhercules for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 21, 2019, 01:45:10 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: [Guide] How to stay safe when dealing with exchanges.
    March 20, 2019, 02:00:23 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: What are PoW and PoS mining? Introduction to the masternodes.
    March 15, 2019, 06:00:22 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for [Guide] Stay safe when dealing with Exchanges.
    March 13, 2019, 04:21:39 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 11, 2019, 05:24:41 PM: 1 from HODL2090 for [Guide] Stay safe when dealing with Exchanges.
    March 11, 2019, 08:53:53 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: Great news everywhere today and Bitcoin price goes vertically up, again!!!
    March 06, 2019, 09:04:40 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 06, 2019, 12:20:08 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for [Guide] Stay safe when dealing with Exchanges.
    March 05, 2019, 11:10:51 PM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 05, 2019, 11:50:47 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    March 03, 2019, 09:10:08 AM: 1 from wwzsocki for Re: ▉ANN▉ MTNC ▉▉▉▉░ Masternodecoin ░▉▉▉ Multiple Privacy Center Platform
    February 03, 2019, 02:49:04 PM: 1 from DdmrDdmr for [Guide] Stay safe when dealing with Exchanges.

Whether they are alts or just friends either way it's complete merit abuse in my eyes. I'd tend to just stay away from meriting "friends". If their posts are good or great then someone will likely merit them but doing so yourself is obviously a conflict of interest and can be seen as unfairly helping a friend out.

[wwzsocki]

...Whether they are alts or just friends either way it's complete merit abuse in my eyes...

I asked Crypto mania to not send merits to me at one time because he was sending me all the merits he got and I don't want to have problems like this.

After some time Theymos stated in the post that one can give merits to any post he wishes, so I stopped to take care of this.

I encourage everyone to read this posts which I merited and threads they are in, and you will see that I merit posts in Masternodecoin project because there are massive problems in this project and Crypto Mania is asking very good questions and don't let the dev team in peace.

Exactly like in Investa ANN thread, where there was distribution lately after ICO and listings, but the token is worth nothing and there is hard to get answers from the team and again Crypto mania asks many very good and detailed questions, which I really like.

I think one should look closer to posts, not only to summaries because there are more merits every day and amounts awarded will only keep growing. In small local communities is hard to not merit these same members, especially if they are good posters.

Additionally, I have never merited any shitpost.

[akamit]

@hilariousetc

Accounts connected: wwzsocki (uuid = 131333), crypto mania (uuid = 1774842)

Reason: using multiple accounts, trading merit, self-talking, account hacking, same ethereum addresses

I also wanted to give this example in my previous post but I skipped, not sure why.

The case got complicated because of the following things, not just for meriting each other. Still I'm trying to figure out the truth.

Sharing email, telegram, ethereum address, facebook, referral link, IP, sitting in wwsocki's house and surfing internet together, still, communicating via PM's.

Meriting a friend's post is not a bad thing in my eyes unless they merit shit posts for the sake of rank up which will be noticeable if got caught.

We are making things complicated here day by day, why should we discourage friendly things? A friend may like a friend's post, it's normal.

[mk4]

As long as the post is actually helpful/good, then whoever he/she is, it doesn't really matter if the person is your friend/relative/etc, as long as it isn't you.

I would tell you to think twice in sending your "friend" merit as you definitely could be accused of owning that account, but I don't think you really should think too much of it, as 6 merits in the spam of 6 months is nothing close to sort of "merit spam" at all.

Suchmoon has sent me 60 merits in total. But it doesn't automatically mean we're somewhat related. https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?to=mjglqw&from=suchmoon

[posi]

Honestly, every individuals of this forum have friends or someone which they like to give merit to special when the person done something which seems to be helpful to them (an example are campaign managers) but abusing the merit system where by ones give merit to post which seems pointless is something I dont agree with cause it may lead to controversy.

[philipma1957]

Interesting thread.

Everyone I know on Bitcointalk I found here or on anandtech or macrumors or  or 123macmini or  parts express forums.

Mostly found all my Bitcointalk buddies here.

Buysolar
Wheelz1200

live close by and I have meet with them more than once.

Generalt is also close by  maybe 40 minutes away.

I have done multiple deals with 2 of them and Buysolar and I are business partners in the Clifton NJ array

I never considered whether I should merit them. Or for that matter if it was wrong to do so.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Well just to point out, that post you linked in your OP was actually worth meriting irrespective of whether you know the OP or not. I did merit the post myself because it was a honest question that other users could relate to) so you didn't do anything wrong. 

About meriting friends, I don't see anything wrong with that, especially when you did find their post won't meriting although you shouldn't abuse that privileges in regards to meriting spam or posts you won't have merited if you didn't know that individual personally because if you do it'll come back to hurt you.

Merit are met for quality contributions therefore irrespective of who the posters are, (be it friends, trolls, members of ranks we presume don't need merit etc) you're free to send them smerits with exception to yourself (alts).

[LoyceMobile]

If you merit him because you know him, it's frowned upon.
However, if you read his posts because you know him, and merit them because they're good, I see no problem there.
LoyceV, check his posts, he doesn't look like a spammer, so merit shouldn't hold him back.

[wwzsocki]

The case got complicated because of the following things, not just for meriting each other. Still I'm trying to figure out the truth.

Sharing email, telegram, ethereum address, facebook, referral link, IP, sitting in wwsocki's house and surfing internet together, still, communicating via PM's.

Because of my work, I am sometimes not available for a few days and this is the time when I sent very rare PM"s to Crypto Mania and only related to Bitcointalk.

In two years I think that was 5 PMs.

[DireWolfM14]

~

There's already a thread relating to your situation, please stop derailing this one.

[wwzsocki]

~

There's already a thread relating to your situation, please stop derailing this one.

Yes, of course, I am very sorry. From two days I keep answering all questions and did it without thinking too much.

[The-One-Above-All]

Merit is meaningless garbage in its current form. However if ANY post is merit worthy. For example it made a positive contribution towards the optimal solution or outcome it should be seen as objectively deserving merit.

Since most people here have varying capacities for recognizing the TRUE value of a post then a true meritocracy is impossible with any kind of reliability or objective accuracy.

It is mostly a political weapon here, so giving it to people you are closely aligned with should be done so with extra consideration lest it comes under external scrutiny and you need to explain it.

Since it seems almost impossible to abuse merit unless to a PROVEN alt (which again is quite impossible) so I do not think you have much to worry about especially if the posts are of high value.

I would rather see people give merit to a true high value post of a friend than give merit to a clearly misleading or super low value post of someone they did not know. Although perhaps those that constantly merit the SAME people over a long period should have limits imposed upon the merit sharing.