Martingale revisited

[Haunebu]

You can imagine that I played a game with $1000 dollars just yesterday and it all went down within few hours on the site, not even a dime left and nothing won back in return. I feel very hurt and am just at the edge of quitting the game.

Invest only what you are willing to lose. Why would you gamble with such a big amount if you were afraid of losing it? Betting small amounts on accumulators regularly would have been more ideal in this case.

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

Not just professional poker players though. There are blackjack card counters out there who make a killing even now. There are many other strategies too(Arbitrage betting, taking advantage of a biased roulette wheel etc) which actually give players the edge.

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[cabalism13]

...and if it favors the player, the casino may suffer massive losses. These big-timers may be in for the money

And that's the reason why, on some other countries, casinos are owned by mafias, just to control the flow of money,... If their client wins big enough that is... Just like in the movies, it somewhat happens IRL too you know. I also know somebody who experienced that thing.

[MonsterV]

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

But can we think of gambling like that, I'm sure most people who come to gambling sites have a goal not entertainment but money, they think gambling is their business that they can do easily.

I still agree when I have to consider gambling as entertainment, at that time people will have more psychological calm when playing. When we are psychologically tense when gambling then that's when we only think of money. It's difficult, it's hard to think of gambling as entertainment.

Invest only what you are willing to lose. Why would you gamble with such a big amount if you were afraid of losing it? Betting small amounts on accumulators regularly would have been more ideal in this case.

Well, but this is not entirely his fault, because it is difficult for humans to hold back their emotions when experiencing successive losses. They will always catch up even though they have passed what he is able to bet. This is natural and often happens to me when experiencing losses in a row.

[Indamuck]

But for now I am still of the opinion that gambling is a game of fun and not a ground for money. If it was for money, majority of us here should be extremely rich by now but all we get is constant loses and this has pushed us to believing that the house edge only favors the site

I mostly agree with your view

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

These dudes are the ones that casinos fear the most as their bankroll is comparable to that of the casino (or even exceeding it), while with just a few bets pure luck can easily overcome the house edge, and if it favors the player, the casino may suffer massive losses. These big-timers may be in for the money

Problem is with the advertisements, they make it look like everyone will be a winner and a lot of stupid people believe that.  If you go in with realistic expectations and a good understand of probability you won't be setting your self up to be mentally traumatized.  

[judeafante]

Martingale is a good strategy if you have large funds to sustain your bets, and if you coupled it with control and right betting strategy, you can win, but it's not 100% guaranty, of course, there is no perfect strategy to bring down the house, just enjoy the game if you are here to bring down the house you are in big trouble.

[cabalism13]

But for now I am still of the opinion that gambling is a game of fun and not a ground for money. If it was for money, majority of us here should be extremely rich by now but all we get is constant loses and this has pushed us to believing that the house edge only favors the site

I mostly agree with your view

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

These dudes are the ones that casinos fear the most as their bankroll is comparable to that of the casino (or even exceeding it), while with just a few bets pure luck can easily overcome the house edge, and if it favors the player, the casino may suffer massive losses. These big-timers may be in for the money

Problem is with the advertisements, they make it look like everyone will be a winner and a lot of stupid people believe that.  If you go in with realistic expectations and a good understand of probability you won't be setting your self up to be mentally traumatized.  

It sounds confusing, then the problem is not on advertisements but the people itself together with their unrealistic fantasies that they could go well, exactly the same with on what they see, but still the reality is such a bad thing, it really goes different on what we expect. So all in all,we end up losing our moneys and much worst our families. And that one example is this martingale thing.

[deisik]

You can imagine that I played a game with $1000 dollars just yesterday and it all went down within few hours on the site, not even a dime left and nothing won back in return. I feel very hurt and am just at the edge of quitting the game.

Invest only what you are willing to lose. Why would you gamble with such a big amount if you were afraid of losing it? Betting small amounts on accumulators regularly would have been more ideal in this case.

As gambling should be considered not a source of income (apart from professional poker players and their likes) but a form of entertainment and amusement only. But we still can't discard those who play rare but always big time. If they lose after a few bets, they leave. If they win, they take the spoil and instantly leave as well

Not just professional poker players though. There are blackjack card counters out there who make a killing even now. There are many other strategies too(Arbitrage betting, taking advantage of a biased roulette wheel etc) which actually give players the edge

In fact, I don't doubt there are a lot of games involving not just luck alone but a certain set of skills as well

As this is what I meant by professional poker players and their likes. I don't know what these likes might be, but I know it for certain that you can beat the odds in some games and activities (like sports betting). This essentially means your result depends not only on luck but also on your skill which you can develop given enough time and practice. Poker just happens to be one of the most familiar and well-known examples of this kind

[redsun114]

Gambling is supposed to be an open source for people to make money not to extort from players but it seems it’s now the other way round and I can clearly say now that this site owner do not have the interest of players at heart. All they care about is their pockets

I'm not really sure that gambling is for people to make money unless we are talking about professional poker players and their likes, or any other games which apart from luck also involve a certain amount of skill. Chance games are about entertainment only, and if you somehow come to think differently, it may cost you dear. Regarding casino owners caring only about  their pockets, isn't that as true with respect to casino players who equally don't care about the pockets of casino owners?

If you are after money, gambling is the last thing you should be looking into

Since you are not sure, I think I should make you understand. You don’t have to be a professional before making money in gambling, irrespective of the game or the type of player, everyone deserves to make money no matter how small it maybe because right from when I was small and I knew how we played games, the aim was to make money.

The best is to understand that it is possible to play games without using strategies and yet make money, I feel strategies is really the problem with gambling and again, it is highly important to overcome greed since this is one thing that prevents gamblers from being successful but making money is definitely not restricted to professional gamblers alone.

[deisik]

Since you are not sure, I think I should make you understand. You don’t have to be a professional before making money in gambling, irrespective of the game or the type of player, everyone deserves to make money no matter how small it maybe because right from when I was small and I knew how we played games, the aim was to make money.

The best is to understand that it is possible to play games without using strategies and yet make money, I feel strategies is really the problem with gambling and again, it is highly important to overcome greed since this is one thing that prevents gamblers from being successful but making money is definitely not restricted to professional gamblers alone

You seem to be missing my point

Basically, there are two types of games. The first type, which is properly and rightfully referred to as gambling, involves only luck. In this type of the game, it is impossible to win if only through luck, but the longer you play, the higher are your odds of losing all simple because the house edge starts to prevail over luck. Indeed you can use martingale in the way described in this thread but most casinos won't let you do that thing as they are no fools, so we are back to square one, i.e. losing eventually

The second type of games, which poker is the most well-known example of, involves both luck and skill. You can't change your luck as it is beyond your powers and control (since otherwise it wouldn't be luck), but you can develop your skills and through that change the odds in your favor. It is the lack of enough skill that prevents people who are playing this kind of games from being successful. So with these games it is your knowledge and expertise combined that determine your success, but these are also what turns you into a pro

[Haunebu]

Well, but this is not entirely his fault, because it is difficult for humans to hold back their emotions when experiencing successive losses. They will always catch up even though they have passed what he is able to bet. This is natural and often happens to me when experiencing losses in a row.

How is it not his fault? He made a bad decision and he regrets it. Simple as that. I did the same in the past and I am not afraid to admit it. Majority cannot hold back as you stated, but the winners are the ones who can control themselves in such situations and make sensible decisions.

It comes down to your own individual decisions at the end of the day. This is why I like to behave like a robot when making these decisions so that the emotional impact is low.

[deisik]

Well, but this is not entirely his fault, because it is difficult for humans to hold back their emotions when experiencing successive losses. They will always catch up even though they have passed what he is able to bet. This is natural and often happens to me when experiencing losses in a row.

How is it not his fault? He made a bad decision and he regrets it. Simple as that. I did the same in the past and I am not afraid to admit it. Majority cannot hold back as you stated, but the winners are the ones who can control themselves in such situations and make sensible decisions

It is just human nature

No one should in fact be surprised at this or go too harsh on other people in such cases and under such circumstances. People rarely admit to owning their mistakes. They simply can't come to terms with the fact that most of their problems actually stem from their own bad behavior and misjudged actions. So they have to find someone or something to blame (e.g. their emotions or whatever). But there's an interesting consequence or sequel to refusing to own up one's mistakes and misdeeds. Ironically, refusing to accept responsibility for one's actions leads to making the same mistakes over and over again. In gambling (as well as in trading), it means losing money until there's nothing to lose

It comes down to your own individual decisions at the end of the day. This is why I like to behave like a robot when making these decisions so that the emotional impact is low

If it works for you, go for it. But a better alternative is to harness the power of your emotions and channel their energy in the direction of your conscious and deliberate choice. Thus, you will get more for a buck of your time and effort

[Haunebu]

If it works for you, go for it. But a better alternative is to harness the power of your emotions and funnel their energy into the right direction, the direction of your conscious and deliberate choice. Thus, you will get more for a buck of your time and energy

I agree with what you are saying here. I find it way easier to channel positive energy while placing sports bets since each bet usually takes time while casino game rolls happen very quickly giving me more time in this regard.

Also, it is way easier to channel positive energy with regards to sports betting due to the ability to do research and place smart value bets giving us an edge while we cannot do the same with casino games.

[serjent05]

Martingale is a good strategy if you have large funds to sustain your bets, and if you coupled it with control and right betting strategy, you can win, but it's not 100% guaranty, of course, there is no perfect strategy to bring down the house, just enjoy the game if you are here to bring down the house you are in big trouble.

Not only that, it is also a good strategy even if you have a small bankroll.   Aside from normal martingale, reverse martingale gives a huge winnings if we happen to win consecutively and  be able to stop before  suffering a loss.  Though the chance of doing this is quite slim since we do not know what will happen on the next roll.  If we win we double the money and if we lose, we lost all the winning.  But the good thing with this strategy is that if we lose, we only lose the initial bet.  So playing this kind of strategy does not need a huge bankroll  unlike the ordinary martingale since we double our bet whenever we lost which means we keep on increasing our bet and that really needs a huge bankroll.

[mirakal]

I would suggest you invest the money you use in gambling rather than risking it in something you have low percentage of making profits.

This is a correct suggestion but it's wrong if someone will use a money to gamble that he can't afford to lose.
I always allocate a portion from my income to gamble and I feel that is the right thing to do to be responsible as when I gamble I am not too confident that I can still have that money after because most likely I loss and that's based on my experience, and I'm talking here of different strategy.

[deisik]

Gambling is supposed to be an open source for people to make money not to extort from players but it seems it’s now the other way round and I can clearly say now that this site owner do not have the interest of players at heart. All they care about is their pockets

I'm not really sure that gambling is for people to make money unless we are talking about professional poker players and their likes, or any other games which apart from luck also involve a certain amount of skill. Chance games are about entertainment only, and if you somehow come to think differently, it may cost you dear. Regarding casino owners caring only about  their pockets, isn't that as true with respect to casino players who equally don't care about the pockets of casino owners?

If you are after money, gambling is the last thing you should be looking into

Exactly, most of the games in gambling aside from poker or card games are more on luck that is why it should only be for fun or entertainment unless if you are truly lucky but most of the time gamblers who risk in gambling only feels lucky but not really lucky in reality. I would suggest you invest the money you use in gambling rather than risking it in something you have low percentage of making profits

Personally, I'm playing with free money

And just want to see where that will take me (just in case, I'm still running my setup and have't lost my balance yet). So if you refer to me personally, I think I know where to draw the line as I lost a few bitcoins in the past and learned my lesson hard (even though Bitcoin was not that expensive back in the day but still)

Besides, I wouldn't quite agree with your point that most gamblers are not lucky. They are in fact as lucky as their odds are (minus the house edge), but after they try out their luck for the first time, they try it out again and again and this is where the house edge massively kicks in and starts to overwhelm luck until there's nothing left of it

[noormcs5]

Well the risk in martingale to me is that you have much space to believe you are doing good in trade but that's not true if eventually you keep losing but if you are always in winning side, you can't feel it.

Martingale is only suited to us if have a big balance in our account. If we have small balance then we may be liquidated after few consecutive loss.
The more the money we have in the balance (bankroll), the more longer we can take the Martingale strategy and avoid the loss.

[swogerino]

Well the risk in martingale to me is that you have much space to believe you are doing good in trade but that's not true if eventually you keep losing but if you are always in winning side, you can't feel it.

Martingale is only suited to us if have a big balance in our account. If we have small balance then we may be liquidated after few consecutive loss.
The more the money we have in the balance (bankroll), the more longer we can take the Martingale strategy and avoid the loss.

That is exactly what we should not do.If we have a really big balance it means we have enough money so why lose it on Martingale or any other non working gambling strategy.Martingale it doesn't work by default,you need an infinite balance which is not realistic.

[serjent05]

Well the risk in martingale to me is that you have much space to believe you are doing good in trade but that's not true if eventually you keep losing but if you are always in winning side, you can't feel it.

Martingale is only suited to us if have a big balance in our account. If we have small balance then we may be liquidated after few consecutive loss.
The more the money we have in the balance (bankroll), the more longer we can take the Martingale strategy and avoid the loss.

That is exactly what we should not do.If we have a really big balance it means we have enough money so why lose it on Martingale or any other non working gambling strategy.Martingale it doesn't work by default,you need an infinite balance which is not realistic.

I think the needed balance depends on how you will use martingale and when you are planning to stop.   Though it is said that Martingale is for someone who have unlimited bankroll, but the problem is no one have unlimited bankroll.  Even those who have huge fund is more probably to end losing since martingale bet grows exponentially every time we lose a roll.  Often times due to house edge, we suffer consecutive loses which can possibly exhaust our bankroll using the martingale method.


This is a good read from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system), which enable us to know that there is a 0% success in martingale if we play continuously.  Reason, limited bankroll plus exponential increase of bet when we lose.

[deisik]

Well the risk in martingale to me is that you have much space to believe you are doing good in trade but that's not true if eventually you keep losing but if you are always in winning side, you can't feel it.

Martingale is only suited to us if have a big balance in our account. If we have small balance then we may be liquidated after few consecutive loss.
The more the money we have in the balance (bankroll), the more longer we can take the Martingale strategy and avoid the loss.

That is exactly what we should not do.If we have a really big balance it means we have enough money so why lose it on Martingale or any other non working gambling strategy.Martingale it doesn't work by default,you need an infinite balance which is not realistic.

I think the needed balance depends on how you will use martingale and when you are planning to stop.   Though it is said that Martingale is for someone who have unlimited bankroll, but the problem is no one have unlimited bankroll.  Even those who have huge fund is more probably to end losing since martingale bet grows exponentially every time we lose a roll.  Often times due to house edge, we suffer consecutive loses which can possibly exhaust our bankroll using the martingale method.

This is a good read from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martingale_(betting_system), which enable us to know that there is a 0% success in martingale if we play continuously.  Reason, limited bankroll plus exponential increase of bet when we lose

This is not the whole story

If your balance grows fast enough, your losing streak will grow too (all other settings being the same obviously). The latter means that you don't in fact need an infinite balance, it just needs to be growing so that your chances of losing your balance are decreasing with time. Further, you are unlikely to bet indefinitely long and that also turns in your favor. It doesn't mean that you can't lose because whether you will actually lose or not cannot be known in advance

[Kasabus]

sometimes Martingale can give you a victory that is so big, but not always the strategy can provide good luck, even if we carry out the strategy continuously it is likely to suffer substantial losses. I think if we have a big enough balance you should avoid Martingale because it will have an impact on greed

The main purpose of why we are betting using the martingale strategy is not to win big, but to win all the time or most of the time.
However, if we are only focus on our greediness, we might not notice how risky this method is, once we experience our bankroll will be totally wipe out, I'm pretty sure we will realize that this is not a good strategy.