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Author Topic: DT1 with zero or neutral trust  (Read 828 times)
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August 17, 2019, 04:33:37 PM
 #1

I've not been keeping up with the latest changes to the trust system, but I'm having difficulty in understanding the justification for including a member without a positive trust entry in the DT1 rankings.

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August 17, 2019, 04:35:22 PM
 #2

I've not been keeping up with the latest changes to the trust system, but I'm having difficulty in understanding the justification for including a member without a positive trust entry in the DT1 rankings.
Is it really necessary to have a trust feedback to be in DT1?

Here everything explained to be in the DT1 however here are all the criteria to be in DT1:
#3
I will periodically (maybe every month) be reconstructing the default trust list to include everyone who matches these criteria:
 - If rank was determined solely using earned merit, then you must be of at least Member rank.
 - You must have been online sometime within the last 3 days.
 - Your trust list must include at least 10 users, not including ~distrust entries.
 - You must not be banned or manually blacklisted from selection.
 - You must have posted sometime within the last 30 days.
 - You must have at least 10 people directly trusting you each with an earned merit of at least 10, not including merit you yourself sent. These "votes" are limited.
 - You must have at least 2 people directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 250, not including merit you yourself sent. These "votes" are limited.

So, if you notice carefully then you will see there are no such criteria that someone has to have any feedback to be in DT1. And personally I do not think a feedback is necessary to be a DT. A DT should be the one who has good sense of judgement of the forum affairs.

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August 17, 2019, 04:57:38 PM
Merited by DaveF (2)
 #3

I didn't realise the 3 day activity requirement, that kills my point in another post - I'd better editit.

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.

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August 17, 2019, 05:01:24 PM
 #4

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.
I do not disagree with you but the reality here is that the forum policeman ranking gets most of the advantage* I think.

*Being in the DT network. Both DT1 and DT2

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August 17, 2019, 05:18:15 PM
Merited by malevolent (1)
 #5

Some Trust Selfscratchers create their own positive trust once they're on DT1.
It's far from perfect, but the volatility of DT makes that Trust ratings can change any moment. That makes it a bad criterion to use.

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August 17, 2019, 07:28:34 PM
 #6

I didn't realise the 3 day activity requirement, that kills my point in another post - I'd better editit.

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.

I posted about something similar:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5154576.msg

Trust for trades and nothing but trades.

Keep the other data points, just add one more for trading. Did not seem to gain much traction.

@LoyceV with all the data you have scraped, can you do a venn diagram with people who are active in meta with the people who are active in the marketplace (and the sub forums)?
Just wondering how many of us are active in both places.

If you are here but not there you don't care as much, and if you are there but not here, you never saw the thread.

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August 17, 2019, 08:50:56 PM
 #7

@LoyceV with all the data you have scraped, can you do a venn diagram with people who are active in meta with the people who are active in the marketplace (and the sub forums)?
Just wondering how many of us are active in both places.
Sorry, I can't do that without scraping all posts in those sections, and that's too much to quickly do.

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August 18, 2019, 02:01:33 AM
Merited by TMAN (2), NeuroticFish (1), Quickseller (1)
 #8

DefaultTrust membership should mean your Trust ratings are accurate, that's it. Someone can be a trustworthy person but their judgement may still be subpar. Or they might not trade much with other forum members but they may be good at spotting scammers.

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August 18, 2019, 02:39:36 AM
 #9

Some Trust Selfscratchers create their own positive trust once they're on DT1.
It's far from perfect, but the volatility of DT makes that Trust ratings can change any moment. That makes it a bad criterion to use.

I agree that it would just encourage trust rating abuse. People are already reluctant to give trading ratings due to perceived and actual abuse.
Trading is not monitored like on ebay so there is no real record of it other than what is posted.

None of the trades I have completed on the forum resulted in feedback - trading feedback has all come from trades on other platforms.

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August 19, 2019, 09:25:42 AM
 #10

Ehh, I think sometimes it's better to have no trust ratings at all, than low-value trust ratings such as for small transactions or whatever.
Don't think I've ever actively asked anyone to ever give me a trust rating, but I've done quite a few trades here on the forum.

I'd actually see myself as somewhat trustworthy for a DT position, just if you take all underlying factors into account. (long-time member, haven't scammed, vested interest in staying a member here, etc.)
For the record, I would not actually want that responsibility, I don't give that much trust ratings out myself, so it would be completely wasted on me Tongue

On the one hand, positive trust ratings can mean a lot, but they're really not the holy grail of proving trustworthiness.

Still, I do understand where you're coming from, seems pretty logical at first glance to require DT1 members to have positive trust.

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August 19, 2019, 01:16:49 PM
Merited by actmyname (1)
 #11

Still, I do understand where you're coming from, seems pretty logical at first glance to require DT1 members to have positive trust.
In that case, the requirement shouldn't bee based on positive trust from other DT-members, but from members with a certain amount of Merit or Activity, kinda like the current DT1-voting.
Ideally it should be based on feedback from DT-members, but those are too volatile. That's why Merit or Activity could work. However, if you're basing DT-status on feedback earned, negative feedback should get a vote too. And that makes DT vulnerable for manipulation. So it's probably best not to change anything. It's up to the users to trust/include users without feedback and put them on DT1.

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August 20, 2019, 03:52:15 AM
 #12

Some Trust Selfscratchers create their own positive trust once they're on DT1.
It's far from perfect, but the volatility of DT makes that Trust ratings can change any moment. That makes it a bad criterion to use.
I saw some people with one or two positive trust mostly got them from loan activities.
Can I ask that which are differences between DT1, DT2 members? I ask because I saw both DT1 and DT2 members can leave negative feedbacks on users, so what's the difference between them, especially the net-effects of trust feedbacks eliminated with Trust Flag ?

I saw theymos' updated trust list every month, does it mean that DT1 members are users added in Trust list of theymos?
While DT2 members are users added in Trust list of at least one DT1 member?



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LoyceV
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August 20, 2019, 06:01:51 AM
Merited by TalkStar (1), hd49728 (1)
 #13

Can I ask that which are differences between DT1, DT2 members?
DT1 members select DT2 members, just like DT2 members select DT3 members.

Quote
I ask because I saw both DT1 and DT2 members can leave negative feedbacks on users
All users can leave feedback, just not all of them are shown by default.

Quote
I saw theymos' updated trust list every month, does it mean that DT1 members are users added in Trust list of theymos?
No. This is theymos' Trust list:
Quote
Trust list for: theymos (Trust: +27 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (61) 5035 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2019-08-17_Sat_05.04h)
Back to index

theymos Trusts:
1. HostFat (Trust: +2 / =0 / -1) (DT1 (-4) 91 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. dooglus (Trust: +14 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (24) 143 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. Raize (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (8 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. Meni Rosenfeld (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (13 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. Maged (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (6 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. Raoul Duke (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. gmaxwell (Trust: +15 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (22) 1373 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. OgNasty (Trust: +82 / =3 / -6) (DT1! (4) 704 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. zvs (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. -ck (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (188 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. malevolent (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 132 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. John (John K.) (Trust: +19 / =0 / -0) (90 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. SaltySpitoon (Trust: +22 / =1 / -1) (920 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. ineededausername (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. DeaDTerra (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
16. BadBear (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (25 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
17. Blazr (Trust: +1 / =1 / -0) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. vgo (Trust: neutral) (12 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
19. BCB (Trust: +6 / =0 / -1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
20. Dabs (Trust: +42 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (2) 160 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
21. Benson Samuel (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
22. shiftybugger (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
23. Cyrus (Trust: +11 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (24) 123 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
24. ibminer (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (10) 348 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
25. Wardrick (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
26. dwdoc (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
27. Adriano (Trust: neutral) (20 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
28. Taras (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (34 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
29. EFS (Trust: +7 / =1 / -1) (192 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
30. dbshck (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (7) 281 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
31. hilariousandco (Trust: +19 / =2 / -0) (DT1! (44) 643 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
32. MadZ (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (157 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
33. shorena (Trust: +14 / =0 / -1) (319 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
34. mitzie (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (3 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
35. franckuestein (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (105 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
36. sapta (Trust: +10 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (6) 170 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
37. OmegaStarScream (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (395 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
38. xandry (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (172 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
39. Mr. Big (Trust: +4 / =1 / -0) (141 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
40. Barcode_ (Trust: neutral) (53 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
41. Anon11073 (Trust: neutral) (35 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
42. Halab (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (361 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
43. Xal0lex (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (735 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
44. chimk (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (564 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

theymos Distrusts:
1. ~CanaryInTheMine (Trust: +32 / =1 / -0) (21 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. ~Matthew N. Wright (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. ~Vod (Trust: +29 / =2 / -1) (DT1! (26) 1278 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. ~Tomatocage (Trust: +20 / =2 / -1) (202 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. ~El Cabron (Trust: +2 / =0 / -7) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. ~Xian01 (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (20 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. ~lophie (Trust: +3 / =1 / -2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. ~johnny5 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. ~TradeFortress &#127957; (Trust: !!!:  +4 / =0 / -14) (23 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. ~KWH (Trust: +7 / =1 / -0) (45 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. ~uhnonamiss (Trust: +0 / =0 / -2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. ~nubbins (Trust: +8 / =1 / -0) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
13. ~FullLife (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
14. ~Boelens (Trust: +1 / =4 / -2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
15. ~Rub3n (Trust: +4 / =0 / -2) (1 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
16. ~TMAN (Trust: +25 / =0 / -1) (DT1! (25) 1041 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
17. ~Lauda (Trust: +34 / =2 / -0) (1096 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
18. ~TomUnderSea (Trust: neutral) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
19. ~blackarrow (Trust: +1 / =0 / -5) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
20. ~MarkAz (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (11 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
21. ~nachius (Trust: +0 / =1 / -6) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
22. ~marcotheminer (Trust: +12 / =5 / -9) (13 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
23. ~artw1982 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -2) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
24. ~Jaaawsh (Trust: +0 / =0 / -1) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
25. ~LYCAN (Trust: +0 / =0 / -3) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
26. ~Spodermen (Trust: #  +0 / =0 / -3) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
27. ~Saint-loup (Trust: neutral) (400 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Trust list: backscratchers: users agree, they trust or distrust each other.
Trust list: backstabbers: users disagree, one user trust the other, while the other distrust him.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.
The users on DT1 are highlighted.

Quote
While DT2 members are users added in Trust list of at least one DT1 member?
Correct. You should probably read DefaultTrust changes.

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August 20, 2019, 08:07:52 AM
 #14

I am not getting any point why DT1 or DT2 should have positive feedback's in order to become part of DT network. If so then it will be like previous DT system. The  current voting system is almost fine and positive feedback's isn't required. If someone have 50 positive feedback's it doesn't mean he is more powerful DT. Even I am not enough trustworthy but my judgment could trustworthy. At this point anyone could be on DT network even they have no any positive feedback's. So feedback's just prove how a person trusted, it doesn't prove his judgment.

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August 20, 2019, 06:55:03 PM
 #15

I didn't realise the 3 day activity requirement, that kills my point in another post - I'd better editit.

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.

There was never supposed to be a forum policeman ranking...  Especially when people like Vod who are straight up liars are included in DT1.  I hope this forum can find it's way back to being more than a trollbox at some point.  It won't happen without strong leadership from honest people.

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August 20, 2019, 07:04:56 PM
 #16

I didn't realise the 3 day activity requirement, that kills my point in another post - I'd better editit.

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.

There was never supposed to be a forum policeman ranking...  Especially when people like Vod who are straight up liars are included in DT1.  I hope this forum can find it's way back to being more than a trollbox at some point.  It won't happen without strong leadership from honest people.
Anyone who opposes the gang have been trolls,are you a troll now OgNasty? because i am being called a troll by telling the abuses of these police wannabe buttholes.
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August 21, 2019, 04:13:37 AM
 #17

I didn't realise the 3 day activity requirement, that kills my point in another post - I'd better editit.

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.

There was never supposed to be a forum policeman ranking...  Especially when people like Vod who are straight up liars are included in DT1.  I hope this forum can find it's way back to being more than a trollbox at some point.  It won't happen without strong leadership from honest people.

OG, out of all the scammers I have busted, you seem to think the length of your scam entitles it to be forgotten.
  Not going to happen idiot - your only defense is been to call me a liar, when people can see I haven't.

To everyone else:  I am helping to build the strong leadership bitcoin needs.  Through transparency we will know who cheats on taxes, and who is just in it for themselves, like OG.  Smiley

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports
"Masturbation makes you feel good but doesn't do anything for the person you're thinking of.  Just like prayer."
TheNewAnon135246
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August 21, 2019, 07:13:04 AM
 #18

I didn't realise the 3 day activity requirement, that kills my point in another post - I'd better editit.

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.

There was never supposed to be a forum policeman ranking...  Especially when people like Vod who are straight up liars are included in DT1.  I hope this forum can find it's way back to being more than a trollbox at some point.  It won't happen without strong leadership from honest people.

What's the point of bringing up your opinion about Vod in every topic related to DT1? Your own topic is a perfect place to ventilate your frustration towards him. Derailing other topics is kinda getting old at this point.

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August 21, 2019, 08:03:23 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2), LoyceV (2)
 #19

I've only just noticed that there seems to be a move against Vod. He is the first entry in my trust list, and I made the entry because I think he is an interesting character ( not sure about the avatar though Smiley ), and I felt that he had the interests of the forum at heart. It seems that others disagree with me, but my entry is based on my ( limited ) interaction with him. There seems to be a similar problem with TMAN, my instinct is that I could trust him with a £10,000 deal, but I haven't traded with him to base that on experience. It's this diversity of opinion that makes it difficult to make productive use of the trust system. It seems that active and outspoken members can attract negative opinions, and this is probably understandable, but in my opinion, the forum needs such members to maintain healthy discussions about Bitcoin and world affairs.

I'd like to give the system more support, but I'm still having difficulty in deciding how I should evaluate people. Obviously members who support or promote scam projects, or who defraud other members, should receive negative ratings. I don't approve of account trading, or the meriting of your own alts, but some members seem to think this is acceptable. However, all of those are negatives, so how do you evaluate the positive morality of members? Posting behaviour isn't really relevant, although post content can be an indication of low moral fibre.

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August 21, 2019, 08:06:16 AM
 #20

I didn't realise the 3 day activity requirement, that kills my point in another post - I'd better editit.

I still think it would be handy to have a trading trust ranking, rather than a forum policeman ranking.

There was never supposed to be a forum policeman ranking...  Especially when people like Vod who are straight up liars are included in DT1.  I hope this forum can find it's way back to being more than a trollbox at some point.  It won't happen without strong leadership from honest people.

What's the point of bringing up your opinion about Vod in every topic related to DT1? Your own topic is a perfect place to ventilate your frustration towards him. Derailing other topics is kinda getting old at this point.
Whats the point of supporting Vod's lies? theymos himself has distrust this idiot,isnt that enough ?you wanna join the distrusted list of the forum owner? you're not helping fag let them fight if they want ! its none of your business freak.
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