Taxless society idea

[hatshepsut93]

Printing money specially for community purpose and specially for real business is taxless situation not "tax on owning money".
Why would no one want that money if it is a separate part that finances common interest and real business (money created at the time of need)?

Printing money for just community purpose will be no different from the current system where people are just looking at how to avoid or pay less taxes in different ways, which again that earnings from taxes does not end up 100% for the purposes it should go.

The inflation would be the same and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes and the real business sector gets true freedom.

Inflation could be controlled mathematically with issuing and with coin burning.

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

Inflation wouldn't be the same, it would be much much higher, because you'd have to print much more money then now. And this whole system would be unfair, because everyone would be hit equally - both the poor and the rich will lose money. Currently someone who is unemployed and doesn't have an income is not paying many taxes, but in your world they'd have to deal with huge inflation, which is really hard for poor people, as they live from one payment to another.

[Betwrong]

I don't think that taxless society is a good idea, because people used to live like this in the past, thousands of years ago, and then they invented taxes, probably in Ancient Egypt, and this made them much more powerful than their taxless neighbors.

Thousands years later, Karl Marx suggested a taxless society in a form of Communism. And, indeed, in socialist economies governments don't need taxes because they own almost all forms of enterprises, and that's where their income comes from. But it hasn't worked, and in the confrontation between Eastern and Western blocs, countries with big taxes have won the Cold War.

[FIFA worldcup]

Sounds like a good idea but do you think that economist does not know this? The idea looks nice but have you ever thought of the effect of it on the society? And have you ever seen the effect of printing of too much money before and even if you suggest it gets burned, but in a lawless society, do you think they will be able to follow that rule strictly. I think the taxing system is better of that what you have here brother.

We  can only try to fight for a reduced tax on the society but not to fight against its policy, tax is also what is used to bring law also you know. Look at the use of electricity, the tax they pay on that would make anyone no to waste power, so that has also help to put order aside the development of the country you earlier mentioned.

To fulfill its functions, the state needs financial resources, which it receives through taxes. Therefore, the state cannot do without taxes. Economic management, defense, court, customs, law enforcement, free medical care, and education - this is not a complete list of those areas of the country's budget expenditures for which taxes must be collected.

Thus, since the advent of the state, taxes have become a necessary part of economic relations.

I am unable to understand how will the government run if they are unable to collect taxes from the people.  There is no revenue generation for the government and  the only thing which comes to them is the taxes which they collect from the people and then spent it on the people.
The only  exception to this that if they do not deduct any taxes and therefore they will not provide any facilities like medical benefits, education facilities and everything will have to be borne by the citizens.

[silversurfer1958]

This idea is quite ridiculous. without a tax-free society, people would have no incentive to grow further and the government could not do much with the meager balance of inflation and the part of that emission.
This is unreasonable, this is a mechanism that depends heavily on the people. If the people do not have good consciousness and their business is ineffective, then the whole country must be greatly affected and without adjustment.

[davinchi]

Karl Marx didn't suggested a taxless society in the form of communism. He suggested a country with no tax but no income and no money, everything you do is just pure your job and everyone lived in the same life style. That is not exactly "taxless", I will give you that it has no tax in it which is correct but taxless and communism is not the same thing, hell it could be considered 100% taxed instead of whatever tax you pay right now, you get paid nothing for doing your job but you pay for nothing neither.

It can't sustain right now, maybe 2000 years ago it would have been a great idea but right now the simple questions like "what if everyone wants a lambo" type of situations will still exists hence we can't have that. Karl Marx version was good for his time, not today.

[coolcoinz]

This idea is quite ridiculous. without a tax-free society, people would have no incentive to grow further and the government could not do much with the meager balance of inflation and the part of that emission.
This is unreasonable, this is a mechanism that depends heavily on the people. If the people do not have good consciousness and their business is ineffective, then the whole country must be greatly affected and without adjustment.

Of course, the government will not get more income to run their programs for the welfare of its people. Even large countries like the United States have worst penalties for people who do not pay taxes, it proves that taxes are very important for the functioning of government systems around the world

Fine, but do we need governments in the same form? Maybe they could be reduced to 1% of its current size? Don't you think that the number of MPs in most countries is ridiculously high? Personally I'm against any welfare system and high taxation. Governments have land they can rent out and sell, natural resources for trade, their own factories that produce product for export, they make you pay duty and handle energy production for large parts of the country. Every time you get some paperwork done or documents issued you pay for it and that's how governments make money. They certainly don't need to tax your income to exist.

[stomachgrowls]

Taxless society? A hard part for a certain economy to grow yet we know that its part of the progress where a certain country can step up in terms or industries,infrastructure and other sectors with the help of these funds.This is also possible with centralized funds though but wont really be that effective
rather than on having a tax generation from into its citizens.Too hard to think of when you do exclude out this kind of system if we do talk about progression of such country.

[abhiseshakana]

Yes it could work.
But who will do it?

You said taxless society right? So will there be a government to govern without money coming in?
They are leaning to that money and that is why a government is working because of tax. If there will be none then I suggest making another form of government.
But I tell you now, it will be ruthless and lawless. It will just be fear which will roam around.
When you think of a new way to live in this world then you should also think about other people.

Let us stay with cashless before we even go to taxless.

Previously the countries in the Middle East were countries that were tax-free. This tax-free policy is the implication of the ideology that taxation is oppression and prohibited by religion. In addition, the majority of Middle Eastern countries are rich in their abundant natural oil resources until the country always subsidizes its people with cheap fuel oil. Crude oil exports contribute more than 80% of the country's income.

This is the background of Middle Eastern countries do not need to collect taxes until world oil prices are down. Now they applying taxes for some sector although the amount is small compared to other countries. In my opinion, the application of taxes is not only aimed at increasing state revenue, but also a lot of strategic interests.

[leftgirly]

This proposal is too complex for the ordinary person to have patience for. Tax is very important and taxation has been with humans since ancient days. Revenues obtained are used to undertake many developmental projects in the society. I stand to be corrected though but I don't know if there is any country in the world where taxation is not in place.

[Reid]

Yes it could work.
But who will do it?

You said taxless society right? So will there be a government to govern without money coming in?
They are leaning to that money and that is why a government is working because of tax. If there will be none then I suggest making another form of government.
But I tell you now, it will be ruthless and lawless. It will just be fear which will roam around.
When you think of a new way to live in this world then you should also think about other people.

Let us stay with cashless before we even go to taxless.

Previously the countries in the Middle East were countries that were tax-free. This tax-free policy is the implication of the ideology that taxation is oppression and prohibited by religion. In addition, the majority of Middle Eastern countries are rich in their abundant natural oil resources until the country always subsidizes its people with cheap fuel oil. Crude oil exports contribute more than 80% of the country's income.

This is the background of Middle Eastern countries do not need to collect taxes until world oil prices are down. Now they applying taxes for some sector although the amount is small compared to other countries. In my opinion, the application of taxes is not only aimed at increasing state revenue, but also a lot of strategic interests.

Yes, but they have oil. Which is what? The number 1 selling commodity in this world.
Hell, they could even increase the price and people will still buy it.
There have been a lot of option as an alternative for oil but no one supports it in wide invesments. Looks like they are being stopped by big oil companies.
Same with tobacco companies against the vaping industry.
They keep on pinning down those who are health friendly just so their money keeps on coming in.

Back to taxes, not all country have that kind of specialty and still it would rely on the government.

[abhiseshakana]

Yes, but they have oil. Which is what? The number 1 selling commodity in this world.
Hell, they could even increase the price and people will still buy it.
There have been a lot of option as an alternative for oil but no one supports it in wide invesments. Looks like they are being stopped by big oil companies.
Same with tobacco companies against the vaping industry.
They keep on pinning down those who are health friendly just so their money keeps on coming in.

Back to taxes, not all country have that kind of specialty and still it would rely on the government.

In fact, the world oil price tends to decrease every year, and to several countries agreed to reduce crude oil production to curb falling prices.it is not easy to raise world oil prices because it is not only determined by one main actor, many interests, the coalition and conspiration on this oil business. Middle Eastern countries have a high degree of dependence on other countries, while some countries have begun to reduce their dependence on oil import.

FYI, in 2019, The world's biggest oil-producing country is America, not the Middle Eastern country as previously. (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production)
 
This circumstances,  make they began to consider the application of taxes as an alternative to increase revenue and reduce the deficit.

Taxless is almost impossible, why? as I explained previously .. Taxes not only policy to increase income. Taxes are a tool to achieve goals by stakeholders.

[Harpreetkaur]

I think this is the great idea. If anyone pay income tax the. This is the responsibility of government don't pay any tax to that guy like food, on shopping etc.  In India this is a huge problem..

[Betwrong]

Karl Marx didn't suggested a taxless society in the form of communism. He suggested a country with no tax but no income and no money, everything you do is just pure your job and everyone lived in the same life style. That is not exactly "taxless", I will give you that it has no tax in it which is correct but taxless and communism is not the same thing, hell it could be considered 100% taxed instead of whatever tax you pay right now, you get paid nothing for doing your job but you pay for nothing neither.

It can't sustain right now, maybe 2000 years ago it would have been a great idea but right now the simple questions like "what if everyone wants a lambo" type of situations will still exists hence we can't have that. Karl Marx version was good for his time, not today.

Exactly. It was proved that you can't build a functional society solely on Marxism, but , at the same time, you can't completely discard the the idea. Modern capitalist societies take Marx's ideas into account when setting a minimum wage for workers, for example, and in many other fields.

Applying Marx's ideas to this topic, we can say that although a taxless society is impossible nowadays, it would be good if people with low income had to pay little to no taxes.

[carter34]

If we extricate tax from the society, that means we are trying to severe the bond between government or governance and the people. The tax is a means that governance work because generation of revenue come partly from taxing which entities the people to some rights when the government is not keeping to promise made to the people.

[BitunaTeam]

If we extricate tax from the society, that means we are trying to severe the bond between government or governance and the people. The tax is a means that governance work because generation of revenue come partly from taxing which entities the people to some rights when the government is not keeping to promise made to the people.

I think just the opposite.
Government should be connected to the people because it serves the quality of people's life as a state management service and not the other way.
People now have no any rights if the government does not keep its promises.
They have only the right to vote every 4 years in non-transparent and easily manipulated elections.

My idea is not about to stop financing common interest (roads, healthcare...) (see my first post)
With math help inflation can be controlled and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes.

On blockchain everything is transparent and even the amount of "printed" digital money.

State management is government job so government must take FULL RESPONSIBILITY and TRANSPARENCY.

[Betwrong]

If we extricate tax from the society, that means we are trying to severe the bond between government or governance and the people. The tax is a means that governance work because generation of revenue come partly from taxing which entities the people to some rights when the government is not keeping to promise made to the people.

I think just the opposite.
Government should be connected to the people because it serves the quality of people's life as a state management service and not the other way.
People now have no any rights if the government does not keep its promises.
They have only the right to vote every 4 years in non-transparent and easily manipulated elections.

My idea is not about to stop financing common interest (roads, healthcare...) (see my first post)
With math help inflation can be controlled and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes.

On blockchain everything is transparent and even the amount of "printed" digital money.

State management is government job so government must take FULL RESPONSIBILITY and TRANSPARENCY.

The idea of putting tax-collecting operations on the blockchain has been discussed for quite some time already, but the governments are in no rush to implement it. That is so because they fear transparency. Unfortunately, a big part (and in many countries the most part) of government representatives are corrupt, and the only thing they care about is their personal gain, rather than prosperity of their citizens.

[shield132]

Taxless society? Are you kidding? Let's forget bitcoin for a while and discuss.
Taxless society means no income from society which means no money is made from them. Now I want to remind you greatest scientist Nikola Tesla. Do you know that he was able to provide wireless electricity but this invention didn't find success because of commercial interests? Imagine how great it would be, how cost effective to receive electricity wireleslly without cables but no, it's not profitable for profit looking monsters who will never be able to spend that money during life but still can' get satisfied.
What about if we humans were pieceful creatures? We spend a lot, really a lot of money in military and for what? Why? Because we can't stand in piece and everytime we have to be ready for war.

You still do not read with the understanding the essential point of my idea.

When you pay taxes, your taxes just go to state budget for financing community interest. Nothing special happens.
That money should be spend for community interest.
With my idea, the way for fill state budget is just changing to goverment side.
Briefly:
My idea is to Goverment fill and spend state budget transparently with FULL RESPONSIBILITY.
Inflation can be cotroled with limited time usage digital currency from moment when you receive salary in that currency (example 1 year).
And this can be achieved easly with public blockchain.

Well, I took discussion on whole different thing, I know.
I agree with you, money should be spend for community interest but how can we make sure that whole process will be transparent? What if they won't include all transaction in public blockchain? And limited time usage digital currency doesn't seem a good idea, can't understand the point of this. Are you able to exchange that limited time digital currency? If yes, then how can it protect us from inflation? Doesn't it mean instead of creating 100 orange, you are creating 100 apple that will turn into orange?
Sorry if I misunderstood what you mean but it's not very clear for me.

[lixer]

You can't make a fully Marxists society but just like every single big thinker he did provided with some good stuff as well.

There is stuff you can take from it from socialist approach but there are stuff he lacks as well. For example, Marxist society is purely economical, when it comes to social justice it lacks many many things, just like the Arabic migrants right now all around Europe creating a surge of nationalistic politic parties to get more attention.

Hence, there are stuff you can take like high taxes and than spending it to cover education and healthcare, those are good stuff however when it comes to high taxes enough to make it full blown communism than it turns not so well. Even china is not full blown communist anymore, they are more right than left these days.

[Ucy]

The idea you presented sounds more like fiction than something that could function in reality. Printing money instead of taxes is disaster for any economy, that wouldn't work. Without taxes it wouldn't be possible to accumulate enough funds to cover all needs of local community or state in whole. And cryptocurrencies are not the solution, they can't replace taxation as well as they can't replace fiat money.

Not totally fiction. It could be done somehow.

Another way this could work aside my previous suggestion is by getting everything privately run in that country. And focus more on getting people well educated plus provide them with excellent healthcare to increase the quality of the country's human resources. It is important to pay good wages also, to increase the citizens spending power.
I think one of the best ways inflation can be controlled is by making it mandatory for  companies to use a big part of each citizens salary/wages to fund their basic needs like healthcare, education, mortgage etc through companies that provide the basic needs. Consumption of local goods & services must be well encouraged.
 I believe this model would be experimented on a Blockchain-based Country one day.

[STT]

Not totally fiction. It could be done somehow.

You are right its not fiction, its a reality and its a disaster all the same.    We are living inside this bubble of money printing, in Japan, USA and Europe.   Because they all print money and consult each other they think this is a system that will not collapse but likely it will anyway.    

by making it mandatory for  companies to use

This is not capitalism and its not democracy imo.   Its a failure to be forcing companies to follow your particular fiscal policy, we live in a global economy and the most competitive environment is where we should expect the productivity, jobs, the population to do best.   Force is a poor alternative to a system that works naturally and does not require a big rule book to hit people over the head with fines and punishments because natural economics does not agree with your forced ideas.

  I love beautiful design and natural dynamics because humans despite their amazing achievements and potential are still a natural phenomena especially en masse such as an economy and the system of trade between countries across great distances.   Anything that works well reflects current trade and enables to perform better, inflation undermines and destabilizes an economy and especially the people who cannot create new currency.

The world's biggest oil-producing country is America, not the Middle Eastern country as previously.

Its debatable as production will vary by price and also efficiency.  Russia could be the worlds largest producer if it did so in an efficient way.
    Venezuela has the worlds largest proven oil reserves, witness the mess they have made of that great wealth.   The problem is they needed great refinement of their particular oil type, it had to be done carefully and in an adjusted way accounting for price vs costs.   What they got was massive government burden forcing laws on price controls etc and destroying or seizing private companies.    Oil is a great demonstration for how easy it is to screw over what could be wealth and power for a nation.