Taxless society idea

[South Park]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

But then, what do you think will be the situation with social guarantees for vulnerable sections of the population?  The fact is that today a fairly large number of citizens depend on state programs and it is not only in services or public places, like roads or bridges.

Then most likely the responsibility to help those in need will fall in the shoulders of charities, and while it is clear that charities do not receive enough support from the population, however most of the time this has to do with the fact that many people think that they are already paying too many taxes and they are not willing to part ways with even more of their money, but in a taxless society it should be expected that the population supports charities way more strongly.

[Blue_oxen]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

[Barbut]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

I don't have respect for the people that run my country, but I agree with you that taxless society is an unreasonable idea. We need to pay taxes to have roads, hospitals, schools, and other stuff, it should be free for all! The current tax system is abused by government officials, they are getting richer, now everything costs, we pay taxes but we pay for roads too, for hospitals too, we even pay for school. We pay for everything, but what we get from that? In my country the situation is chaotic.

[South Park]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

I don't have respect for the people that run my country, but I agree with you that taxless society is an unreasonable idea. We need to pay taxes to have roads, hospitals, schools, and other stuff, it should be free for all! The current tax system is abused by government officials, they are getting richer, now everything costs, we pay taxes but we pay for roads too, for hospitals too, we even pay for school. We pay for everything, but what we get from that? In my country the situation is chaotic.

The more you ask for the government to do, the more taxes they need to charge to you, the bigger the government becomes and at same time it becomes more inefficient, governments should charge as little taxes as possible just in order to function properly, but that is not what we see now, governments are charging you a huge amount of taxes and supposedly all of that money should go back to you in the form of services but that is not the case because politicians are stealing that money, while we need a society that pays taxes to the government, governments have abused that power and are stealing too much money from the population.

[Vishnu.Reang]

But then, what do you think will be the situation with social guarantees for vulnerable sections of the population?  The fact is that today a fairly large number of citizens depend on state programs and it is not only in services or public places, like roads or bridges.

IMO, more than 90% of the welfare recipients doesn't deserve the government funds. The welfare system is vastly misused, especially in the developed nations. In order to gain votes, the leftist parties (such as the Democrats in the United States) have made it possible for undeserving people to claim welfare payments. This needs to change.

[clickerz]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

Taxes are the lifeblood of the government, from this money the government can have projects like large scale infrastructures, or to spend on health, education, etc that is to give back to the people in terms of projects which is beneficial to constituents. The problem here is the elected officials if they are corrupt, dishonest and serving only their self-interest.

[STT]

It wouldnt be a question of deserves exactly, are those recipients of welfare also tax payers then to some extent its justified to make sure they survive another day to pay more tax in future, doesnt have to be about being nice at all just consider it some investment in a future resource.
   Of course if there is fraud of some kind then its another matter but a plain lack of job is comparable to private insure possible for gaps in employment so its not so unusual.   It does mean higher taxes though, I'd also argue in favour of heath care again because you want to look after people who pay tax so its justified imo.  I really prefer a small government and less tax on an economy but people are great investments also.

[DaftAjax]

<....>
The problem here is the elected officials if they are corrupt, dishonest and serving only their self-interest.

They're not the only ones to blame actually, people that are in the high society (elites) have their own ways of preventing, or should I say dodging on paying taxes. They could just literally hire a lawyer and that's it. That's is why people who are in the lower society (low~mid) are the ones suffering from paying high-cost taxes, that results of inflation--and the reason why inflations exists in an economy is that people that supposed to pay their taxes, don't pay and budgets that are supposed to be spent in the designated projects are being collected by politicians.

[STT]

I dont go with the elites idea and the 1% and how unfair it is, that is the whining culture and its not going to solve anything to go after the rich as if that can solve the overall economy of a country.   If I really believed it'd work I'd not object however silly but its not going to work in any case possible.  Confiscation,  taxation to the point of obstruction, red tape or outright royal/politcal charter however its phrased its not going to be a better system then open competitive capitalism.
   The reason is there in history, we have tried high taxes before and it gains less revenue then allowing the best economy possible and taxing all more evenly.  Ideally government should not be so giant that it requires to become a burden, then theres a problem like Greece had I guess was partly related to that.

They could just literally hire a lawyer

Totally right and before we even discuss any change the rich people already have a lawyer standing ready for their whole family.  Their companies if they own any employ lawyers and the bigger the company the more powerful this effect becomes.   This is where rich have the advantage over the poor, scales of economy can work against the very weakest in society as they become unable to fight the battles that a company or rich individual can.   I dont blame people for being rich, I blame the system for not serving the poorest people.
   The blame I find most easily apparent is in the smallest units of currency, it has to represent capitalism which is why I disagree with this idea of inflation being a harmless tax when its actually the very worst type almost.

[Karmakid]

If we are going to have a taxless system then it will just destroy our nation. Taxless means there will be no fund for the government to continue or start the concepts or ideas that they have to improve the current situation of a certain nation. Taxes are essential and without these, we will not attain all the things that we are currently enjoying.

[bettercrypto]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

[Gheka]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

Well, everyone can start analyzing and deducing like you, they can certainly find many reasons for paying taxes and what the money is being used for, and for a nation, tax is essential for the government to build a safe and strong place, without it, we would hardly have a peaceful and developed life, buildings and architecture, good medical conditions, it's all from our taxes, I don't understand why we want to deny this benefit. Sometimes, it may be too high, even some people think the government system is corrupt this money but very few, it cannot compare with the benefits we receive

[South Park]

I dont go with the elites idea and the 1% and how unfair it is, that is the whining culture and its not going to solve anything to go after the rich as if that can solve the overall economy of a country.   If I really believed it'd work I'd not object however silly but its not going to work in any case possible.  Confiscation,  taxation to the point of obstruction, red tape or outright royal/politcal charter however its phrased its not going to be a better system then open competitive capitalism.
   The reason is there in history, we have tried high taxes before and it gains less revenue then allowing the best economy possible and taxing all more evenly.  Ideally government should not be so giant that it requires to become a burden, then theres a problem like Greece had I guess was partly related to that.

snip

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

[DaftAjax]

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

I don't know if indiscriminately increasing tax is the best solution but, here in the Philippines, you see our country had a considerable amount of debt from the past, and right now the economy is facing inflation. Now like I said, I don't know if it's the wisest decision to make but the current president is doing everything he can to make the country great again. I also would like to mention that, I think he doesn't want to touch other funds just to pay these debts (unlike what the past presidents did) so maybe this is his alternative.

That aside, people who blame the rich because of their situation are stupid. No one should think that way. Instead, as mentioned, blame the system.

[South Park]

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

I don't know if indiscriminately increasing tax is the best solution but, here in the Philippines, you see our country had a considerable amount of debt from the past, and right now the economy is facing inflation. Now like I said, I don't know if it's the wisest decision to make but the current president is doing everything he can to make the country great again. I also would like to mention that, I think he doesn't want to touch other funds just to pay these debts (unlike what the past presidents did) so maybe this is his alternative.

That aside, people who blame the rich because of their situation are stupid. No one should think that way. Instead, as mentioned, blame the system.

I do not know much about the situation in the Philippines to have an informed opinion about it, but there are basically two ways to tax people, one way is to do it overtly and the other is to do it covertly, when governments decide to create a tax for something then they are charging you a tax in an overtly manner, but the second way in which they can do this is to inflate the currency, this way they can pay their debts by printing more money, the problem is that this reduces what you can buy with your money and as such reduces your wealth, that is just another form of tax but which is done in a covertly manner.

[HarmonyA]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

Taxless society would cause economy havoc. This will cause all manner of economic problems inclusive of inflation,  indirect tax on goods and services that would not be traced to any government agency. Making it possible for corruption on all sphere of governance.

[Kevondo]

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

I don't know if indiscriminately increasing tax is the best solution but, here in the Philippines, you see our country had a considerable amount of debt from the past, and right now the economy is facing inflation. Now like I said, I don't know if it's the wisest decision to make but the current president is doing everything he can to make the country great again. I also would like to mention that, I think he doesn't want to touch other funds just to pay these debts (unlike what the past presidents did) so maybe this is his alternative.

That aside, people who blame the rich because of their situation are stupid. No one should think that way. Instead, as mentioned, blame the system.

I never support the idea of increasing taxes for paying debts of your country. This is the most stupid and cruel mean of paying off debts. Increasing taxes is not showing the credibility of president. If president is there ruling the whole country it means he has something special that other people lack for ruling the country. he then definitely do something unique to get country out of debts like increasing means of investment, building opportunities for business etc.

[DaftAjax]

I do not know much about the situation in the Philippines to have an informed opinion about it, but there are basically two ways to tax people, one way is to do it overtly and the other is to do it covertly, when governments decide to create a tax for something then they are charging you a tax in an overtly manner, but the second way in which they can do this is to inflate the currency, this way they can pay their debts by printing more money, the problem is that this reduces what you can buy with your money and as such reduces your wealth, that is just another form of tax but which is done in a covertly manner.

I appreciate the information, I think what the government did was taxing overtly because I know that they didn't print more money, tho before we're like 50~55 PHP in exchange for USD but now it's like 60, then again there are other factors that affect exchange--outside the country that is. Tho I don't really have detailed information to share to portray the drastic change. Anyway, the government increased the tax for sin tax (i.e. tobacco and liquor products), they also did on confectionaries and other sugar-processed products (i.e. soft drinks). After that, other products start to get expensive as well, I don't know if it's the inflation or because of the other products that have been affected by the increased tax.

I never support the idea of increasing taxes for paying debts of your country. This is the most stupid and cruel mean of paying off debts. Increasing taxes is not showing the credibility of president. If president is there ruling the whole country it means he has something special that other people lack for ruling the country. he then definitely do something unique to get country out of debts like increasing means of investment, building opportunities for business etc.

I don't support it either but I don't really dive too much into details about it, there must be some kind of valid, practical reason for such heavy decision. Then again, I don't really like politics to really be fond of reading thru everything, I only mentioned it because it was really an interesting issue, and maybe I could get an idea of why they're doing such thing, because another thing is, I don't really trust journalist or the news in TVs that much.

[smyslov]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

I agree there is no way we can have a taxless society, although there are countries which has a very minimal taxes, and these countries are coming from oil rich country, they can do that because they have a very high revenues coming from oil, but for other countries they need taxes to support infrastructure and delivering basic goods.

[crisanto01]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

I agree there is no way we can have a taxless society, although there are countries which has a very minimal taxes, and these countries are coming from oil rich country, they can do that because they have a very high revenues coming from oil, but for other countries they need taxes to support infrastructure and delivering basic goods.

It's really impossible, just imagine the life we have if we don't have tax, do you think people can work without any compensation at all? Without tax, there is no government so it would be  hard if we will have a country which has no government at all, there will be no unity and no opportunity at all.