Taxless society idea

[BitunaTeam]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

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[hatshepsut93]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes.

[BitunaTeam]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes.

Printing money specially for community purpose and specially for real business is taxless situation not "tax on owning money".
Why would no one want that money if it is a separate part that finances common interest and real business (money created at the time of need)?

Printing money for just community purpose will be no different from the current system where people are just looking at how to avoid or pay less taxes in different ways, which again that earnings from taxes does not end up 100% for the purposes it should go.

The inflation would be the same and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes and the real business sector gets true freedom.

Inflation could be controlled mathematically with issuing and with coin burning.

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

[exstasie]

Printing money specially for community purpose and specially for real business is taxless situation not "tax on owning money".
Why would no one want that money if it is a separate part that finances common interest and real business (money created at the time of need)?

Printing money makes it less scarce, decreasing its value. Whenever money is printed, those who already hold some are essentially being taxed because their holdings are being devalued. That's what hatshepsut93 is referring to.

Printing money for just community purpose will be no different from the current system where people are just looking at how to avoid or pay less taxes in different ways, which again that earnings from taxes does not end up 100% for the purposes it should go.

Yes, it's not really different from the current system. You're just paying taxes via monetary inflation rather than having it explicitly taken out of your paycheck.

Inflation could be controlled mathematically with issuing and with coin burning.

Inflation could only be reliably controlled in a decentralized cryptocurrency like Bitcoin, where the entire network enforces the inflation rate. If left up to central banks, they'll just do as they please.

[Distinctin]

TBH, I wasn't able to digest your idea, it seems so complicated to me.
Tax is the lifeblood of the government, so I don't think they will eliminate that to live in a taxless society with the idea that you propose.
Most of the countries are not yet incline with cryptocurrency, so they'll basically use their current tax system.

Actually if we can all adopt with digital currencies, thing will be more transparent, unlike now in our country where double taxation happens.
For example, the national government imposes tax already, while the municipalities are also doing their taxation to increase their collections for their area.

[Tylev]

How much humanity is developing, however, not a single state has been able to do without taxes. Taxes, as always, are sorely lacking to cover social needs and this periodically leads to shocks in almost all states.
The proposed measures are very difficult to understand, but in any case, they are not suitable for building a tax-free society. The advent of cryptocurrency will also not be able to solve this problem. Taxes are necessary in any society.

[NeuroticFish]

Inflation is the government tool to fine tune economy / budgeting / debt. Allowing (and forcing!) average Joe to store his money in a "store of value" manner will make the whole inflationary part useless.

Also, you wrote that "community funds" will be made in inflationary coin, with one year existence. How about multi-year investments? How about late payments? You won't like to see you've received inflationary money as payment for jobs done for the community services and the money you received is at the verge of expiration. How about the community services getting unable to pay because their funds have expired?

[romero121]

Taxes were the key tool that governments use to acquire the earnings of people. When the nation goes Taxless surely large investment flow will happen into the country as investment. Taxless society is possible only when basic needs of a citizen is fulfilled by the government. Even the richest economy of the world haven't fulfilled the needs of common people.

Here rises a question how would the government gets income, governments should avoid privatization. In several countries even the sectors that were under the control of governments were handed over to private networks. This will accumulate the fund in a single persons hand. If it is under the government control it gets to the hands of the common people through the government. Maybe this is impossible, but this seems to be the only way to go Taxless.

[bitbunnny]

The idea you presented sounds more like fiction than something that could function in reality. Printing money instead of taxes is disaster for any economy, that wouldn't work. Without taxes it wouldn't be possible to accumulate enough funds to cover all needs of local community or state in whole. And cryptocurrencies are not the solution, they can't replace taxation as well as they can't replace fiat money.

[jaocoincrypto18]

The idea you presented sounds more like fiction than something that could function in reality. Printing money instead of taxes is disaster for any economy, that wouldn't work. Without taxes it wouldn't be possible to accumulate enough funds to cover all needs of local community or state in whole. And cryptocurrencies are not the solution, they can't replace taxation as well as they can't replace fiat money.

I agree with you. No government will be able to survive if they will not rely on taxes that will use to sustain the government spending for the welfare of their people. Except if the certain government has lot of income generating properties that enough to support the people needs then Income  taxation will not be truly necessary.

[Kakmakr]

So you want to tell people what they have to do with their wealth and if they do not do that, you want to destroy that wealth? Is that really the kind of solution that you want to provide to people in an experiment like Bitcoin, where we try to promote freedom from centralized decision making on our personal finances?

Also what will happen if you destroyed <burnt> all the coins in circulation, will you influence or force people to add more coins to the current coin cap? <That is the one thing that gives Bitcoin it's value -- scarcity> 

[deisik]

What do you think is this can be done to work?

I seriously doubt about the "burn" part

Actually, this idea is nothing new as there were attempts in the past to implement it in practice. Quite naturally, not a single one succeeded because for money to be money it should keep up its purchasing power for long enough so that the loss of that power wouldn't be felt (too strong). But what you suggest is in stark contrast with the idea of money as such, the inference being that the whole scheme looks contrived and not natural (read, it is not viable unless forced)

[el kaka22]

That makes no sense at all, you are forcing people to spend their money and that won't fly in any sort of system at all, not communism not capitalism not socialism. There is really no system where we can tweak this and make it work. Hell the problem is not even taxes, its how the politicians do not use it.

You can see countries with hundreds of billions of dollars in tax income that go bankrupt because the politicians do not use the taxes for the good of people but only to better themselves. So, you need to build a system where people could actually get to see their taxes comeback to them. Right now, Americans have a problem with healthcare for example, they spend more money and pay more taxes on healthcare than 100+ countries yet they think having a free healthcare would be bad, they don't realize that they are already paying more than other countries in healthcare and think the taxes would be high.

[CryptoBry]

The idea of a taxless society seems good on the part of the millions of taxpayers annually sharing the burden but will it really work for the betterment, stability and development of the society in general? I highly doubt that but I do commend your sharing of the idea here as many of us are frankly wishing that one day we are not anymore obliged to pay our share but we know that taxes are necessary for the society to run otherwise we should eliminate the government all together but that can be the key to more problems rather than solutions. Right now, we are at the global economy already at the point of no return with all the mounting debts affecting everybody.

[audaciousbeing]

An economy without taxes is one that is bound to fail. It just cannot work no matter under the guise which its going to be entertained. From time immemorial even before the advent of money as a measure for the payment of taxes or the understanding of the complex economics terms such as the impact of the GDP or impact on inflation or deflation as the case may be, taxes has been something human being have also paid in one way or the other because its a fabric that hold the society together. Not only to create money for people running government but also to maintain stability in the social economic strata.

[rjbtc2017]

It depends, if there is a replacement for Tax- which is one of the sources of profits/fund of the Government to make their Departments function, then it will be okay, but the design of the current Government system is the one which actually worked, it's traditional and trusted by the mass.

[Febo]

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

That will not work. It is a premine or taxmine as zcash and dash have. It is stolen from miners and will never be approved by regulators.

[BitHodler]

No government will be able to survive if they will not rely on taxes that will use to sustain the government spending for the welfare of their people. Except if the certain government has lot of income generating properties that enough to support the people needs then Income  taxation will not be truly necessary.

I don't think we'll ever see governments be competitive enough in the world to not need taxation, but they actually can do a whole lot more to not subject us to insane taxation laws that are similar to theft.

Governments have become so lazy due to the printing of money, that they don't see the need to become more competitive as country. If you also have a secondary income through taxation, what more do they need?

Instead of getting taxed less throughout the years, we have been taxed more. We're nothing but walking bank accounts they can access whenever they think it's necessary. 

[Cemploon]

People will surely be pleased with no taxes, but whether this can happen live without taxes. Governments provide taxes as every country needs development.

Your idea I think its hard to be true. With the tax, everyone can get economic growth and not just development.

[btc_angela]

It's good in paper but it's more complex at it seems, you need full cooperation for public and private sector so most likely they will clash in the end. Plus will government allow that kind of setup? I don't think that they would allow old and traditional just run over by crypto is this is what you are trying to drive out here.

[RapTarX]

It's good in paper but it's more complex at it seems, you need full cooperation for public and private sector so most likely they will clash in the end. Plus will government allow that kind of setup? I don't think that they would allow old and traditional just run over by crypto is this is what you are trying to drive out here.

That's being said-
“Everyone can create money; the problem is to get it accepted“-- Hyman Minsky.

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

With or without transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

What if inflation/deflation arise in the economy? Can circulation of a single coin can be done both deflation or inflation? If not, the same of the current economy will be reflected again.

[acroman08]

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

this is what the OP suggested

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

it always makes me laugh when people talks about the possibility of tax-less society. it is easy to think up of an Idea about tax-less society but putting it into action is almost
impossible.

[guoyu78]

Sounds like a good idea but do you think that economist does not know this? The idea looks nice but have you ever thought of the effect of it on the society? And have you ever seen the effect of printing of too much money before and even if you suggest it gets burned, but in a lawless society, do you think they will be able to follow that rule strictly. I think the taxing system is better of that what you have here brother.

We  can only try to fight for a reduced tax on the society but not to fight against its policy, tax is also what is used to bring law also you know. Look at the use of electricity, the tax they pay on that would make anyone no to waste power, so that has also help to put order aside the development of the country you earlier mentioned.

[Betwrong]

~
What do you think is this can be done to work?

I'm sorry but I can't see the difference between what you proposed and what we already have with the fiat money printed by central banks. To me it looks like you suggest replacing the fiat with some crypto that has the same properties. Will it work? It can. But aren't we having that already?

[iMark]

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

this is what the OP suggested

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

it always makes me laugh when people talks about the possibility of tax-less society. it is easy to think up of an Idea about tax-less society but putting it into action is almost
impossible.

A rich country because of tax income, and people have the idea to erase it and convince many people that the country can survive from other income, That is the weirdest idea I hear the most, taxes have been around for hundreds of years, and tax income is very important for the country's development, arguably tax is one of the biggest contributors to the state budget, the country will surely collapse if it removes taxes.

[vintages]

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

I doubt it, not when we still have the government.
Even math can't help much here.
State governments live on tax, without tax a country won't be up to standard and guess what, the people will complain.
The only thing agreeable here is a transparent system for tax payment. This is where blockchain can come to play, if there is true transparency, every tax issued won't be as highly charged as it is now.

[deisik]

It's good in paper but it's more complex at it seems, you need full cooperation for public and private sector so most likely they will clash in the end. Plus will government allow that kind of setup? I don't think that they would allow old and traditional just run over by crypto is this is what you are trying to drive out here.

That's being said-
“Everyone can create money; the problem is to get it accepted“-- Hyman Minsky.

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

As this Minsky guy said, everyone can create money

But apart from everyone else, the central authority (otherwise known as government) can also force their money into acceptance by the local populace. That technically means they have a sufficient leeway in how much they can print and that basically answers your question. The government can fund their expenditures by simple money-printing (it is called an inflation tax, for the inquiring minds). Indeed, there are limits to this effort but any government at some point had been doing exactly that in the past, and there is no reason to believe that they won't in the future. Such is life and then they start the printing press

[Theb]

The idea in it sense looks good but if you dig deeper you will see a big hole in your plan. First of all how will you get everything financed from a taxless society? You mentioned about healthcare, pensions, and other projects but how do you this things can be accomplish if the government doesn't even have any income coming from taxes? What will be the other alternative for them to have income? Because I don't see how the government will just be dependent on their citizens' contributions since it will be a slow development waiting for donations just to start a project. And of course a taxless society would only be a center of abuse for the top 1% in this kind of society the rich would be more richer and they'll be more powerful than the government running the society.

[Schirer]

I am not sure if i understand your idea as you intended.

So all the government expenses would made of thin air and would amount to crypto currencies value decrease?

I dont think that any taxless society can exist , if there is no other source of income like oil .

[Ucy]

I'd go for multiple sources of income for a Blockchain society. People wouldn't bother about taxes as long as they are living  comfortable lives and is tax transparently spent on things they choose by themselves. If you can guarantee basic needs of life without straining a Blockchain economy, people will  happily and proudly pay their taxes.

[Tylev]

In general, the idea of ​​a tax-free society is stupid and practically impracticable. No society without taxes will last long. I am from Ukraine and a good example of this is our army. It seemed that we were among friendly states and therefore reduced our nuclear arsenal, abandoned the status of a nuclear power, and went on a sharp reduction in the army. As a result, the state, which we considered closest to us, took advantage of this: Russia. Now she has invaded our territory, captured part of it and is killing our citizens. Only thanks to volunteer battalions we defended our independence and now we are building the most powerful army in Europe. And for this we introduced additional taxes.
There has long been a true saying - if the people do not want to feed their army, they will inevitably feed someone else's. Such an example can be given in any industry.

[RealMalatesta]

I have an idea of exact opposite. Moneyless country, nobody makes any money and there is no money involved, there is no tax, nothing costs money at all. Considering there is wealth hoarding all around the world right now and rich people are making sure they get all the money in the world while keeping others poor, its obvious that our current monetary system doesn't work.

So, it will be first come first serve type of world, everyone will work somewhere, governments job will be putting everyone into works they can work unless people can find their own job of course in which case people can work wherever they want. In return government will make sure everything gets done, there is no money so there is no reason not to fix the problems countries have since they won't face budget problems.

[Betwrong]

I have an idea of exact opposite. Moneyless country, nobody makes any money and there is no money involved, there is no tax, nothing costs money at all. Considering there is wealth hoarding all around the world right now and rich people are making sure they get all the money in the world while keeping others poor, its obvious that our current monetary system doesn't work.

So, it will be first come first serve type of world, everyone will work somewhere, governments job will be putting everyone into works they can work unless people can find their own job of course in which case people can work wherever they want. In return government will make sure everything gets done, there is no money so there is no reason not to fix the problems countries have since they won't face budget problems.

Moneyless societies existed thousands years ago, but they all failed. Many people don't want to work, but they want to eat and be entertained. So they gather in groups and rob those who work, raping the sh*t out of them, male and female. That's how barbarians used to live, but they were eventually defeated by more cultured and sophisticated societies, who, btw, used money already.

But I'm not trying to say that current economic system is perfect. It has some big flaws, and it should be replaced by something new and more effective, but by something entirely new, not by something from the distant past.

[deisik]

I have an idea of exact opposite. Moneyless country, nobody makes any money and there is no money involved, there is no tax, nothing costs money at all. Considering there is wealth hoarding all around the world right now and rich people are making sure they get all the money in the world while keeping others poor, its obvious that our current monetary system doesn't work

No money no honey

Inventing money was a huge step ahead for humanity, quite comparable to control of fire by early humans. Without money (whatever form it may take or however inefficient it may be), we would still be mostly hunter-gatherers. Without money, the division of labor wouldn't be possible, which is at the basis of all wealth created in the past and that which is to be created in the future (even though it is not straightforward to grasp). Conceptually, money removes the factor of time as well as space from the equation of the exchange of goods and services. This is a big deal

[acroman08]

If there's no tax, how do the central authority will develop the country? Who will fund them?

this is what the OP suggested

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

it always makes me laugh when people talks about the possibility of tax-less society. it is easy to think up of an Idea about tax-less society but putting it into action is almost
impossible.

A rich country because of tax income, and people have the idea to erase it and convince many people that the country can survive from other income, That is the weirdest idea I hear the most, taxes have been around for hundreds of years, and tax income is very important for the country's development, arguably tax is one of the biggest contributors to the state budget, the country will surely collapse if it removes taxes.

I know right! these people have no Idea how hard it is to develop a country or how to maintain it. they just think up of an idea and think it will work out.

[vixcious]

The government not only uses citizens' tax money to provide retirement pensions to retirees, they also have to build infrastructure, upgrade roads and do a lot of political stuff.
deflationary gaps will not bring too much money to the government so they can build the infrastructure.
Besides, the fact that many governments hold the same coins, they also face the problem of manipulation of institutions.
There are too many problems in this idea that need to be addressed.

[nightxglow]

Actually i can't really get what you're saying, it's really complicated for me to understand. But i don't agree with taxless society. Because i've experienced it that, even with such strict tax regulations, many people still find a way to manipulate their tax and even not pay them at all. And the government's budget is most likely always, if not often deficit because not many people pay tax, when it's the biggest income for our country. It will be hard for the government to fund everything, and what you stated above, i don't think it might work or will be any help. And also, it'll be hard for some people to accept changes, not to mention a country. It will take such a big effort and also time. And there's even no guarantee that it will work, or even better than today's tax system.

[barbara44]

You may not have a tax free world but you can certainly drop the tax rates a lot, you may just let the world be what it is and just not interfere with anything. How would a government make money? They can build roads, hospitals, do the governmental branch work for money like you get a drivers license but pay a ton of money for it, you get a new birth certificate but pay a lot for it, basically run the government like a business instead of doing free stuff and get it funded by taxes, so the people who need to do something about the government is actually the ones that pay for it and the ones that do not use government related stuff too much won't have to pay at all.

However, this creates a bigger wealth gap that poor will have hard time surviving since they need the help of our taxes to be able to live their lives.

[yoseph]

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

I doubt it, not when we still have the government.
Even math can't help much here.
State governments live on tax, without tax a country won't be up to standard and guess what, the people will complain.
The only thing agreeable here is a transparent system for tax payment. This is where blockchain can come to play, if there is true transparency, every tax issued won't be as highly charged as it is now.

And when it comes to transparency with how the taxes the people pay are going to be used then we should just forget it because it's not going to happen.

[BitunaTeam]

I see that many people here have not realized the point of my idea.

My taxless society idea is not about to stop financing common interest (roads, healthcare...) (see my first post).

I just want things to be sorted out so that the government takes FULL RESPONSIBILITY for financing common interest.

Financing common interest is a government task, but with almost no responsibility and with already proven large manipulation of public money with no consequences.

Central banks are already have a task to control and regulate inflation rates within the monetary area in which it operates.
This task obliges the central bank to limit the impact of inflation on economic activity in the country.
It does with the formation of base interest rates, which affects the level of market interest rates in commercial banks.

Goverments already plans a state budget for 1 year in further.
Tax money goes to the state budget.
We now have the situation that if the state budget is filled more than necessary it is only in the next period of time that taxes are reduced or if they reduced, which is UNFAIR for the real business sector.

Ideally, taxes should be reduced or enlarged in real time.
Also for real transparency and against corruption from politicians every state budget and transactions from that budget should be publicly available on a permanent blockchain record for all citizens.

With my idea and with math help, inflation can be controlled and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes (Goverment will take FULL RESPONSIBILITY with careful budget planning) and the real business sector will get true freedom without repercussions to the common interest.

Financing common interests and salaries would be directly from emission of digital currency with time limited usage period instead from collected taxes.

Because inflationary digital currency would have a time limit usage, some people would try to spend that money before expiration (the economy is growing) and others would turn it into a form of political and trade wars independent savings (bitcoin, gold ...).

Governments will not lose control (they will get more control on state budget).
Governments can still control businesses with penalties for ilicit activity.

Coruption will be less because of transparency state budget on blockchain and goverment will take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for planing and control state budget and in cooperation with central bank to keep normal inflation rate.

Goverment will also not have to worry about tax invasion.

[shield132]

Taxless society? Are you kidding? Let's forget bitcoin for a while and discuss.
Taxless society means no income from society which means no money is made from them. Now I want to remind you greatest scientist Nikola Tesla. Do you know that he was able to provide wireless electricity but this invention didn't find success because of commercial interests? Imagine how great it would be, how cost effective to receive electricity wireleslly without cables but no, it's not profitable for profit looking monsters who will never be able to spend that money during life but still can' get satisfied.
What about if we humans were pieceful creatures? We spend a lot, really a lot of money in military and for what? Why? Because we can't stand in piece and everytime we have to be ready for war.

[BitunaTeam]

Taxless society? Are you kidding? Let's forget bitcoin for a while and discuss.
Taxless society means no income from society which means no money is made from them. Now I want to remind you greatest scientist Nikola Tesla. Do you know that he was able to provide wireless electricity but this invention didn't find success because of commercial interests? Imagine how great it would be, how cost effective to receive electricity wireleslly without cables but no, it's not profitable for profit looking monsters who will never be able to spend that money during life but still can' get satisfied.
What about if we humans were pieceful creatures? We spend a lot, really a lot of money in military and for what? Why? Because we can't stand in piece and everytime we have to be ready for war.

You still do not read with the understanding the essential point of my idea.

When you pay taxes, your taxes just go to state budget for financing community interest. Nothing special happens.
That money should be spend for community interest.
With my idea, the way for fill state budget is just changing to goverment side.
Briefly:
My idea is to Goverment fill and spend state budget transparently with FULL RESPONSIBILITY.
Inflation can be cotroled with limited time usage digital currency from moment when you receive salary in that currency (example 1 year).
And this can be achieved easly with public blockchain.

[Pab]

Too much complicate for me and very much unreal
Divide money in two categories will not work
There is also no global money Countries has his own currencies and it has to stay like that because national currency is root of independence
Crypto is still not so much used like a money and  crypto is still too young and very much controlled by miners
Crypto can't replace fiat and national currencies
By my opinion best way for crypto is to stay like a alternative money

[RapTarX]

As this Minsky guy said, everyone can create money

But apart from everyone else, the central authority (otherwise known as government) can also force their money into acceptance by the local populace. That technically means they have a sufficient leeway in how much they can print and that basically answers your question. The government can fund their expenditures by simple money-printing (it is called an inflation tax, for the inquiring minds). Indeed, there are limits to this effort but any government at some point had been doing exactly that in the past, and there is no reason to believe that they won't in the future. Such is life and then they start the printing press

Govt currency acceptance is easily done. People need to pay a lot of money to govt, so, it has acceptance. People are forced to accept it. However, there's some exception as well. Look at Zimbabwe. Because of the inflation, govt decide to introduce new currency which also face the same. They weren't accepted by the people.
Govt can't print money if they need to fund expenditure. Money printing can affect the economy widely. For ex, if govt print more money than M0 (I'm not certain what's the denomination), economy will face a significant inflation.

[BitHodler]

Crypto is still not so much used like a money and  crypto is still too young and very much controlled by miners

Each pool people think controls a large chunk of Bitcoin's network, consists of thousands of smaller miners pointing their hashrate to them. It's not as centralized as it may seem by looking at the pie charts of the hashrate distribution.

Positive development is that there have been various proposals to further decentralize the network further by for example allowing the individual miners to choose which transactions they mine instead of the pool operator.

Even you as smaller miner with just a few thousand dollar worth of equipment will be able to contribute. Isn't that something to look forward to? We're here for the same reason, which is to see Bitcoin succeed.

[STT]

Goverment will also not have to worry about tax invasion.

Tax evasion is a common problem and if we say in general the government is easily viewed as inefficient in every task it performs and this forms a cost as well.  The best solution that I've heard of for this continual problem is the universal basic income where all citizens receive a very basic wage from the state regardless of their other factors or job income or assets or circumstances.   Then the tax extracted is mostly via a sales tax or scalable % based on non essential goods.   People who spend money to carry on living such as food should not be taxed as its not an optional activity but its fairly justifiable to tax luxury goods to service the state.   
   Also a direct tax like this makes the expenditure of the government far more clear as a burden upon the nation and the people.   This is an important feedback effect that should help control some of the endless spending and inefficiency in the government.

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money),

This is the status quo, its already true that governments are financing themselves by over producing currency and handing it to themselves via low interest debt.    The main reason this is a problem is it leads to confusion and distortion of the economy.   There is a negative and a cost to destabilizing the value of the nations currency, it will cause inefficiency and instability which is hard to measure but causes the risk of bubbles and crashes in asset prices from overly loose monetary policy.

[Daffadile]

A taxless society could work since the money can come from peoples shares/tokens in different companies. So there will be enough people to build roads and hospitals and things like that since the tax money people would ordinarily spend on giving to the government they would have the power where to buy tokens from and what to support. Even make a profit off of it.

[breathlessz]

Taxless society can only be appreciated through cryptocurrency, because it's decentralized and financially independent. When implementing taxable money, it's only for fiat currency economy which was governed by the law of the state. Regulation is strictly applied on centralized currency which is the traditional paper money.

That happened because the government had not legalized it, but if it was stipulated in the law, I think the government would look for loopholes to get state revenue, namely taxes. I don't think the country can prosper without a lot of state income. Even the developed countries have the largest tax revenue sector, but at present cryptocurrency has no tax levied

[slocker]

This is from some point of view not possible. Every society have his own politic and culture for example. Another thing to mentioned here tax is pay to state/government for one reason. That tax is to be used in next fiscal year to improve this/that society. That money is used by all soft of department in following year to improve everything in that/this state.

Without this tax nothing can work or function. If this is to be stopped then it could bring to global disaster or even worse. Tax is something that we use in some part of the life. When there is fire you will call fire department to put that fire down. This is one of many examples that tax money is distributed, also its for creating roads railways ..... Many thing are created from this tax money, also there are bad usage or better said misused fund.

Unfortunately this is how thing go around the globe. Sadly this is good idea or maybe good proposal but this is something hard to accomplish even on paper.

[jrrsparkles]

So everyone should be independent on their economical status and needs? Highly impossible though because things like health care or other infrastructure given by the governments are not possible to be done with the personal that is why tax system made.There are lot of corruptions on the taxes but still that thing managing the humanity to be working under some rule.

[carter34]

So everyone should be independent on their economical status and needs? Highly impossible though because things like health care or other infrastructure given by the governments are not possible to be done with the personal that is why tax system made.

I'm not supporting whether taxing can go off or not but looking at the above, remember we have private hospitals and different sectors of life are now managed by the private sector. Government will not totally hands off because, the fact that there is government is the reason that laws, rules and regulation control people's desires. Hence, if we don't have government, life will go back to being brutish.

[BitunaTeam]

Too much complicate for me and very much unreal
Divide money in two categories will not work
There is also no global money Countries has his own currencies and it has to stay like that because national currency is root of independence
Crypto is still not so much used like a money and  crypto is still too young and very much controlled by miners
Crypto can't replace fiat and national currencies
By my opinion best way for crypto is to stay like a alternative money

Money is already divided but today that is happens on the end (when you purchase something).
If you are merchant, when you sell some product you add VAT - Value Added Tax on your product price.
In that moment, you divide money on your earning and state income earning.
That tax is BACK to state income (Nothing special).

All money spent from the state budget has predetermined reasons for what is spent in next fiscal year.
Included average population growth, funds for possible natural disasters, etc.

With my idea we only change time when money is divided and the side that does.
The goods and services will get a clean price.
Price forming is already a free decision from merchants.
For me this is just technical and mathematical problem.
Transparent blockchain technology can realy help for realize this.
Governments will not lose control they can still control businesses with penalties for ilicit activity.

I have not write anywhere that cryptocurrency will replace the national currencies.
We can still use cryptocurrencies in combination with national currencies.

Deflationary currency does not jeopardize inflationary currency like dollar, euro....

[suzanne5223]

Taxless society can only be appreciated through cryptocurrency, because it's decentralized and financially independent. When implementing taxable money, it's only for fiat currency economy which was governed by the law of the state. Regulation is strictly applied on centralized currency which is the traditional paper money.

You maje your point but everything which is used as a medium exchange of value ought to be taxable and if we want cryptocurrency to be the mainstream of payment there's nothing bad in paying tax since some government gradually support Bitcoin.

Back to the OP question, I don't support your idea because excess fiat printed was also among what causes inflation.

[imstillthebest]

Taxless society can only be appreciated through cryptocurrency, because it's decentralized and financially independent.

You maje your point but everything which is used as a medium exchange of value ought to be taxable and if we want cryptocurrency to be the mainstream of payment there's nothing bad in paying tax since some government gradually support Bitcoin.

right . i heard somewhere that there are now  countries that are now taxing cryptos this is good because tax are helpful to one's economy but this does not mean that cryptos are being promoted or will now become a mainstream payment gateway . taxless society is i think not really possible at all  but its possible for some people to not pay for thier tax especially if they are really poor  , thats what i understand about how taxing works  .

[FlightyPouch]

Taxless society can only be appreciated through cryptocurrency, because it's decentralized and financially independent.

You maje your point but everything which is used as a medium exchange of value ought to be taxable and if we want cryptocurrency to be the mainstream of payment there's nothing bad in paying tax since some government gradually support Bitcoin.

right . i heard somewhere that there are now  countries that are now taxing cryptos this is good because tax are helpful to one's economy but this does not mean that cryptos are being promoted or will now become a mainstream payment gateway . taxless society is i think not really possible at all  but its possible for some people to not pay for thier tax especially if they are really poor  , thats what i understand about how taxing works  .

It is impossible to develop a country without tax, it is the blood of the country, as my teacher said in our taxation subject. Some of them might be corrupted by the government but most of them usually go to the country's need, infrastractures, programs, etc. Despite saying all of that, I don't support bitcoin being taxed since the reason I use it is because it is decentralized.

[sana54210]

The concept of taxation has been around since day one. It is a way for the government to actually exercise the income distribution concept. It is one the best ways to make lives easier and good as a result of the provision of health facilities and free education. Sweden is one of the most tax collecting countries and its life standard is super excellent.

That idea of having tax less society is really insane to me, it wild have been easier if we ourselves knows our let from right, but we live in a world where we have so many lawless people who does  not know the right thing to do except they force them to do it,  how would we be able to coordinate our self out of contribution to fix our environment.

In my vicinity, ordinary contribution to fix something that we use together to make our environment better becomes a problem to people around you, if not because of government and taxes, many beautiful cities and many things we enjoy today would not have been possible.

Government needs the tax for our own benefits and we know it, I understand that we have some countries that has so many useless leaders that all  they do with their tax money is to siphon it and use it for their personal consumption in creating luxuries for themselves, rather than making the lives of their citizens better and i know some countries like that in Africa which I would not mentioned for peace purpose.

[deisik]

As this Minsky guy said, everyone can create money

But apart from everyone else, the central authority (otherwise known as government) can also force their money into acceptance by the local populace. That technically means they have a sufficient leeway in how much they can print and that basically answers your question. The government can fund their expenditures by simple money-printing (it is called an inflation tax, for the inquiring minds). Indeed, there are limits to this effort but any government at some point had been doing exactly that in the past, and there is no reason to believe that they won't in the future. Such is life and then they start the printing press

Govt currency acceptance is easily done. People need to pay a lot of money to govt, so, it has acceptance. People are forced to accept it. However, there's some exception as well. Look at Zimbabwe. Because of the inflation, govt decide to introduce new currency which also face the same. They weren't accepted by the people.
Govt can't print money if they need to fund expenditure. Money printing can affect the economy widely. For ex, if govt print more money than M0 (I'm not certain what's the denomination), economy will face a significant inflation.

But what or who can stop them?

Yes, excessive money printing will cause inflation to soar but its burden is not on the government but on the ordinary people. Actually, this is what all governments do when they face things like an all-out war. They start financing their expenses through money printing as this is a sort of last-ditch recourse. The Zimbabwean government just lost touch with reality. Most other governments know better and use the inflation tax wisely as it is pretty much like the law of diminishing returns until the returns turns into real problems

[fiulpro]

Government can print money but the more they print money ...the more their own currency will suffer , you should understand that it never goes like this the fact that taxes are not 100% of your salary means we can more or so pay them , if we are earning this much , we will be the ones suffering if our Currency went down .. all the stocks , the banks will have a hard time.
This is not how it would go.

[trickyriky]

Sounds like a good idea but do you think that economist does not know this? The idea looks nice but have you ever thought of the effect of it on the society? And have you ever seen the effect of printing of too much money before and even if you suggest it gets burned, but in a lawless society, do you think they will be able to follow that rule strictly. I think the taxing system is better of that what you have here brother.

We  can only try to fight for a reduced tax on the society but not to fight against its policy, tax is also what is used to bring law also you know. Look at the use of electricity, the tax they pay on that would make anyone no to waste power, so that has also help to put order aside the development of the country you earlier mentioned.

To fulfill its functions, the state needs financial resources, which it receives through taxes. Therefore, the state cannot do without taxes. Economic management, defense, court, customs, law enforcement, free medical care, and education - this is not a complete list of those areas of the country's budget expenditures for which taxes must be collected.

Thus, since the advent of the state, taxes have become a necessary part of economic relations.

[Reid]

Yes it could work.
But who will do it?

You said taxless society right? So will there be a government to govern without money coming in?
They are leaning to that money and that is why a government is working because of tax. If there will be none then I suggest making another form of government.
But I tell you now, it will be ruthless and lawless. It will just be fear which will roam around.
When you think of a new way to live in this world then you should also think about other people.

Let us stay with cashless before we even go to taxless.

[hatshepsut93]

Printing money specially for community purpose and specially for real business is taxless situation not "tax on owning money".
Why would no one want that money if it is a separate part that finances common interest and real business (money created at the time of need)?

Printing money for just community purpose will be no different from the current system where people are just looking at how to avoid or pay less taxes in different ways, which again that earnings from taxes does not end up 100% for the purposes it should go.

The inflation would be the same and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes and the real business sector gets true freedom.

Inflation could be controlled mathematically with issuing and with coin burning.

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

Inflation wouldn't be the same, it would be much much higher, because you'd have to print much more money then now. And this whole system would be unfair, because everyone would be hit equally - both the poor and the rich will lose money. Currently someone who is unemployed and doesn't have an income is not paying many taxes, but in your world they'd have to deal with huge inflation, which is really hard for poor people, as they live from one payment to another.

[Betwrong]

I don't think that taxless society is a good idea, because people used to live like this in the past, thousands of years ago, and then they invented taxes, probably in Ancient Egypt, and this made them much more powerful than their taxless neighbors.

Thousands years later, Karl Marx suggested a taxless society in a form of Communism. And, indeed, in socialist economies governments don't need taxes because they own almost all forms of enterprises, and that's where their income comes from. But it hasn't worked, and in the confrontation between Eastern and Western blocs, countries with big taxes have won the Cold War.

[FIFA worldcup]

Sounds like a good idea but do you think that economist does not know this? The idea looks nice but have you ever thought of the effect of it on the society? And have you ever seen the effect of printing of too much money before and even if you suggest it gets burned, but in a lawless society, do you think they will be able to follow that rule strictly. I think the taxing system is better of that what you have here brother.

We  can only try to fight for a reduced tax on the society but not to fight against its policy, tax is also what is used to bring law also you know. Look at the use of electricity, the tax they pay on that would make anyone no to waste power, so that has also help to put order aside the development of the country you earlier mentioned.

To fulfill its functions, the state needs financial resources, which it receives through taxes. Therefore, the state cannot do without taxes. Economic management, defense, court, customs, law enforcement, free medical care, and education - this is not a complete list of those areas of the country's budget expenditures for which taxes must be collected.

Thus, since the advent of the state, taxes have become a necessary part of economic relations.

I am unable to understand how will the government run if they are unable to collect taxes from the people.  There is no revenue generation for the government and  the only thing which comes to them is the taxes which they collect from the people and then spent it on the people.
The only  exception to this that if they do not deduct any taxes and therefore they will not provide any facilities like medical benefits, education facilities and everything will have to be borne by the citizens.

[silversurfer1958]

This idea is quite ridiculous. without a tax-free society, people would have no incentive to grow further and the government could not do much with the meager balance of inflation and the part of that emission.
This is unreasonable, this is a mechanism that depends heavily on the people. If the people do not have good consciousness and their business is ineffective, then the whole country must be greatly affected and without adjustment.

[davinchi]

Karl Marx didn't suggested a taxless society in the form of communism. He suggested a country with no tax but no income and no money, everything you do is just pure your job and everyone lived in the same life style. That is not exactly "taxless", I will give you that it has no tax in it which is correct but taxless and communism is not the same thing, hell it could be considered 100% taxed instead of whatever tax you pay right now, you get paid nothing for doing your job but you pay for nothing neither.

It can't sustain right now, maybe 2000 years ago it would have been a great idea but right now the simple questions like "what if everyone wants a lambo" type of situations will still exists hence we can't have that. Karl Marx version was good for his time, not today.

[coolcoinz]

This idea is quite ridiculous. without a tax-free society, people would have no incentive to grow further and the government could not do much with the meager balance of inflation and the part of that emission.
This is unreasonable, this is a mechanism that depends heavily on the people. If the people do not have good consciousness and their business is ineffective, then the whole country must be greatly affected and without adjustment.

Of course, the government will not get more income to run their programs for the welfare of its people. Even large countries like the United States have worst penalties for people who do not pay taxes, it proves that taxes are very important for the functioning of government systems around the world

Fine, but do we need governments in the same form? Maybe they could be reduced to 1% of its current size? Don't you think that the number of MPs in most countries is ridiculously high? Personally I'm against any welfare system and high taxation. Governments have land they can rent out and sell, natural resources for trade, their own factories that produce product for export, they make you pay duty and handle energy production for large parts of the country. Every time you get some paperwork done or documents issued you pay for it and that's how governments make money. They certainly don't need to tax your income to exist.

[stomachgrowls]

Taxless society? A hard part for a certain economy to grow yet we know that its part of the progress where a certain country can step up in terms or industries,infrastructure and other sectors with the help of these funds.This is also possible with centralized funds though but wont really be that effective
rather than on having a tax generation from into its citizens.Too hard to think of when you do exclude out this kind of system if we do talk about progression of such country.

[abhiseshakana]

Yes it could work.
But who will do it?

You said taxless society right? So will there be a government to govern without money coming in?
They are leaning to that money and that is why a government is working because of tax. If there will be none then I suggest making another form of government.
But I tell you now, it will be ruthless and lawless. It will just be fear which will roam around.
When you think of a new way to live in this world then you should also think about other people.

Let us stay with cashless before we even go to taxless.

Previously the countries in the Middle East were countries that were tax-free. This tax-free policy is the implication of the ideology that taxation is oppression and prohibited by religion. In addition, the majority of Middle Eastern countries are rich in their abundant natural oil resources until the country always subsidizes its people with cheap fuel oil. Crude oil exports contribute more than 80% of the country's income.

This is the background of Middle Eastern countries do not need to collect taxes until world oil prices are down. Now they applying taxes for some sector although the amount is small compared to other countries. In my opinion, the application of taxes is not only aimed at increasing state revenue, but also a lot of strategic interests.

[leftgirly]

This proposal is too complex for the ordinary person to have patience for. Tax is very important and taxation has been with humans since ancient days. Revenues obtained are used to undertake many developmental projects in the society. I stand to be corrected though but I don't know if there is any country in the world where taxation is not in place.

[Reid]

Yes it could work.
But who will do it?

You said taxless society right? So will there be a government to govern without money coming in?
They are leaning to that money and that is why a government is working because of tax. If there will be none then I suggest making another form of government.
But I tell you now, it will be ruthless and lawless. It will just be fear which will roam around.
When you think of a new way to live in this world then you should also think about other people.

Let us stay with cashless before we even go to taxless.

Previously the countries in the Middle East were countries that were tax-free. This tax-free policy is the implication of the ideology that taxation is oppression and prohibited by religion. In addition, the majority of Middle Eastern countries are rich in their abundant natural oil resources until the country always subsidizes its people with cheap fuel oil. Crude oil exports contribute more than 80% of the country's income.

This is the background of Middle Eastern countries do not need to collect taxes until world oil prices are down. Now they applying taxes for some sector although the amount is small compared to other countries. In my opinion, the application of taxes is not only aimed at increasing state revenue, but also a lot of strategic interests.

Yes, but they have oil. Which is what? The number 1 selling commodity in this world.
Hell, they could even increase the price and people will still buy it.
There have been a lot of option as an alternative for oil but no one supports it in wide invesments. Looks like they are being stopped by big oil companies.
Same with tobacco companies against the vaping industry.
They keep on pinning down those who are health friendly just so their money keeps on coming in.

Back to taxes, not all country have that kind of specialty and still it would rely on the government.

[abhiseshakana]

Yes, but they have oil. Which is what? The number 1 selling commodity in this world.
Hell, they could even increase the price and people will still buy it.
There have been a lot of option as an alternative for oil but no one supports it in wide invesments. Looks like they are being stopped by big oil companies.
Same with tobacco companies against the vaping industry.
They keep on pinning down those who are health friendly just so their money keeps on coming in.

Back to taxes, not all country have that kind of specialty and still it would rely on the government.

In fact, the world oil price tends to decrease every year, and to several countries agreed to reduce crude oil production to curb falling prices.it is not easy to raise world oil prices because it is not only determined by one main actor, many interests, the coalition and conspiration on this oil business. Middle Eastern countries have a high degree of dependence on other countries, while some countries have begun to reduce their dependence on oil import.

FYI, in 2019, The world's biggest oil-producing country is America, not the Middle Eastern country as previously. (ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production)
 
This circumstances,  make they began to consider the application of taxes as an alternative to increase revenue and reduce the deficit.

Taxless is almost impossible, why? as I explained previously .. Taxes not only policy to increase income. Taxes are a tool to achieve goals by stakeholders.

[Harpreetkaur]

I think this is the great idea. If anyone pay income tax the. This is the responsibility of government don't pay any tax to that guy like food, on shopping etc.  In India this is a huge problem..

[Betwrong]

Karl Marx didn't suggested a taxless society in the form of communism. He suggested a country with no tax but no income and no money, everything you do is just pure your job and everyone lived in the same life style. That is not exactly "taxless", I will give you that it has no tax in it which is correct but taxless and communism is not the same thing, hell it could be considered 100% taxed instead of whatever tax you pay right now, you get paid nothing for doing your job but you pay for nothing neither.

It can't sustain right now, maybe 2000 years ago it would have been a great idea but right now the simple questions like "what if everyone wants a lambo" type of situations will still exists hence we can't have that. Karl Marx version was good for his time, not today.

Exactly. It was proved that you can't build a functional society solely on Marxism, but , at the same time, you can't completely discard the the idea. Modern capitalist societies take Marx's ideas into account when setting a minimum wage for workers, for example, and in many other fields.

Applying Marx's ideas to this topic, we can say that although a taxless society is impossible nowadays, it would be good if people with low income had to pay little to no taxes.

[carter34]

If we extricate tax from the society, that means we are trying to severe the bond between government or governance and the people. The tax is a means that governance work because generation of revenue come partly from taxing which entities the people to some rights when the government is not keeping to promise made to the people.

[BitunaTeam]

If we extricate tax from the society, that means we are trying to severe the bond between government or governance and the people. The tax is a means that governance work because generation of revenue come partly from taxing which entities the people to some rights when the government is not keeping to promise made to the people.

I think just the opposite.
Government should be connected to the people because it serves the quality of people's life as a state management service and not the other way.
People now have no any rights if the government does not keep its promises.
They have only the right to vote every 4 years in non-transparent and easily manipulated elections.

My idea is not about to stop financing common interest (roads, healthcare...) (see my first post)
With math help inflation can be controlled and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes.

On blockchain everything is transparent and even the amount of "printed" digital money.

State management is government job so government must take FULL RESPONSIBILITY and TRANSPARENCY.

[Betwrong]

If we extricate tax from the society, that means we are trying to severe the bond between government or governance and the people. The tax is a means that governance work because generation of revenue come partly from taxing which entities the people to some rights when the government is not keeping to promise made to the people.

I think just the opposite.
Government should be connected to the people because it serves the quality of people's life as a state management service and not the other way.
People now have no any rights if the government does not keep its promises.
They have only the right to vote every 4 years in non-transparent and easily manipulated elections.

My idea is not about to stop financing common interest (roads, healthcare...) (see my first post)
With math help inflation can be controlled and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes.

On blockchain everything is transparent and even the amount of "printed" digital money.

State management is government job so government must take FULL RESPONSIBILITY and TRANSPARENCY.

The idea of putting tax-collecting operations on the blockchain has been discussed for quite some time already, but the governments are in no rush to implement it. That is so because they fear transparency. Unfortunately, a big part (and in many countries the most part) of government representatives are corrupt, and the only thing they care about is their personal gain, rather than prosperity of their citizens.

[shield132]

Taxless society? Are you kidding? Let's forget bitcoin for a while and discuss.
Taxless society means no income from society which means no money is made from them. Now I want to remind you greatest scientist Nikola Tesla. Do you know that he was able to provide wireless electricity but this invention didn't find success because of commercial interests? Imagine how great it would be, how cost effective to receive electricity wireleslly without cables but no, it's not profitable for profit looking monsters who will never be able to spend that money during life but still can' get satisfied.
What about if we humans were pieceful creatures? We spend a lot, really a lot of money in military and for what? Why? Because we can't stand in piece and everytime we have to be ready for war.

You still do not read with the understanding the essential point of my idea.

When you pay taxes, your taxes just go to state budget for financing community interest. Nothing special happens.
That money should be spend for community interest.
With my idea, the way for fill state budget is just changing to goverment side.
Briefly:
My idea is to Goverment fill and spend state budget transparently with FULL RESPONSIBILITY.
Inflation can be cotroled with limited time usage digital currency from moment when you receive salary in that currency (example 1 year).
And this can be achieved easly with public blockchain.

Well, I took discussion on whole different thing, I know.
I agree with you, money should be spend for community interest but how can we make sure that whole process will be transparent? What if they won't include all transaction in public blockchain? And limited time usage digital currency doesn't seem a good idea, can't understand the point of this. Are you able to exchange that limited time digital currency? If yes, then how can it protect us from inflation? Doesn't it mean instead of creating 100 orange, you are creating 100 apple that will turn into orange?
Sorry if I misunderstood what you mean but it's not very clear for me.

[lixer]

You can't make a fully Marxists society but just like every single big thinker he did provided with some good stuff as well.

There is stuff you can take from it from socialist approach but there are stuff he lacks as well. For example, Marxist society is purely economical, when it comes to social justice it lacks many many things, just like the Arabic migrants right now all around Europe creating a surge of nationalistic politic parties to get more attention.

Hence, there are stuff you can take like high taxes and than spending it to cover education and healthcare, those are good stuff however when it comes to high taxes enough to make it full blown communism than it turns not so well. Even china is not full blown communist anymore, they are more right than left these days.

[Ucy]

The idea you presented sounds more like fiction than something that could function in reality. Printing money instead of taxes is disaster for any economy, that wouldn't work. Without taxes it wouldn't be possible to accumulate enough funds to cover all needs of local community or state in whole. And cryptocurrencies are not the solution, they can't replace taxation as well as they can't replace fiat money.

Not totally fiction. It could be done somehow.

Another way this could work aside my previous suggestion is by getting everything privately run in that country. And focus more on getting people well educated plus provide them with excellent healthcare to increase the quality of the country's human resources. It is important to pay good wages also, to increase the citizens spending power.
I think one of the best ways inflation can be controlled is by making it mandatory for  companies to use a big part of each citizens salary/wages to fund their basic needs like healthcare, education, mortgage etc through companies that provide the basic needs. Consumption of local goods & services must be well encouraged.
 I believe this model would be experimented on a Blockchain-based Country one day.

[STT]

Not totally fiction. It could be done somehow.

You are right its not fiction, its a reality and its a disaster all the same.    We are living inside this bubble of money printing, in Japan, USA and Europe.   Because they all print money and consult each other they think this is a system that will not collapse but likely it will anyway.    

by making it mandatory for  companies to use

This is not capitalism and its not democracy imo.   Its a failure to be forcing companies to follow your particular fiscal policy, we live in a global economy and the most competitive environment is where we should expect the productivity, jobs, the population to do best.   Force is a poor alternative to a system that works naturally and does not require a big rule book to hit people over the head with fines and punishments because natural economics does not agree with your forced ideas.

  I love beautiful design and natural dynamics because humans despite their amazing achievements and potential are still a natural phenomena especially en masse such as an economy and the system of trade between countries across great distances.   Anything that works well reflects current trade and enables to perform better, inflation undermines and destabilizes an economy and especially the people who cannot create new currency.

The world's biggest oil-producing country is America, not the Middle Eastern country as previously.

Its debatable as production will vary by price and also efficiency.  Russia could be the worlds largest producer if it did so in an efficient way.
    Venezuela has the worlds largest proven oil reserves, witness the mess they have made of that great wealth.   The problem is they needed great refinement of their particular oil type, it had to be done carefully and in an adjusted way accounting for price vs costs.   What they got was massive government burden forcing laws on price controls etc and destroying or seizing private companies.    Oil is a great demonstration for how easy it is to screw over what could be wealth and power for a nation.

[BitunaTeam]

"the Republic of the Marshall Islands has used the US dollar as money. Today we are progressing with our plan to issue a sovereign currency in digital form – using blockchain technology.
...
Our money supply will grow at a sustainable 4% each year, following Milton Friedman’s k% rule. New SOV will be automatically distributed to the currency holders and the decentralized entities securing the network. THIS MEANS THAT WE IN GOVERNMENT CANNOT MODIFY THE MONEY SUPPLY, AND WE CANNOT MANIPULATE THE VALUE OF OUR CURRENCY BY PRINTING MORE MONEY."

Source:
https://www.coindesk.com/why-the-marshall-islands-is-issuing-its-own-cryptocurrency


This is how all states should do and my idea would be achievable.

[guoyu78]

I think this is the great idea. If anyone pay income tax the. This is the responsibility of government don't pay any tax to that guy like food, on shopping etc.  In India this is a huge problem..

There are already established systems in many countries that can understand who pays taxes and who doesn't.
It is about corruption which government doesn't make the necessary checks and provide services for "free" to those who don't pay taxes at all...

Taxation is many countries differs, we have some very high developed countries that pays tax virtually on everything., although they are highly developed, but the burden of tax on most of their citizens is highly expensive and sometime could be unbearable for them, if as they were even paying heavy tax, the government is not corrupt and not milking their tax, they would still have been encourage to continue to do it for the love of their country, but many of the government offices are corrupt that they are the ones that mostly eat the tax that those people pay.

In my own country, our own tax is still quite flexible, but development rate is very slow, and this is why we cannot overrule tax at all, if our taxes was on everything, I am sure our development would have been more than this.

[atjiat]

One way or another, I believe that taxation in the state should be, because all state structures exist at the expense of taxes.  But at the same time, most of the taxes that fall into the state budget must be paid by entrepreneurs and enterprises, and not by a simple citizen.  In any case, all taxes should remain in local budgets.

[coolcoinz]

One way or another, I believe that taxation in the state should be, because all state structures exist at the expense of taxes.  But at the same time, most of the taxes that fall into the state budget must be paid by entrepreneurs and enterprises, and not by a simple citizen.  In any case, all taxes should remain in local budgets.

You're blindly repeating the mantra that the government is putting in your mind through media and compulsory education. Taxation is a very wide subject and there's a saying that the more you have the more you spend. Spending a lot and wasting money is where most governments excel and if you cut some of their tax money flow it wouldn't make them disappear, but make them rethink some policies.

[STT]

I dont see that government has to be the one who builds a bridge, it can be financed privately and operated by toll charges.   This has worked for hundreds of years and did not prevent the industrial revolution and general society advancement   Theres no rule that has government doing this job best, that is determined by the people around that bridge and its users.  
   We could say the government has the place of maintaining law and order, that the bridge must be operated safely and fairly for society to benefit from even private operation.   All of modern society has a fairly large bias towards the left wing thinking of large government and enforced operation by government.   The problem is governments are inefficient, we do better as a society to have a mix of solutions and a free market that promotes efficiency and even profitability.   Governments typically lose money constantly, are not profitable or efficient hence I do not want large government as it costs me alot.  

   When we get failed government, I do not want my nation to fail also.   Politics is a dirty business often and full of large egos of people who speak too long too often and say little of use compared to plain industry which is productive and useful or fails and costs those who had backed it only, not an entire country.
   Look at Venezuela as a warning if we can do that much, those people who suffer there did not do so in vain but as an example to save us all from loss.     Venezuela dominates their industry, their people and country as an entire asset all is controlled by politics, the military and ultimately it falls to violence and the threat of a massive government crushes the people.  
   The largest greatest fastest growth and most resilient the world over comes from the smallest people and operations in an economy, Bitcoin as a tiny resource should always respect the smallest holders and I hope it will benefit all economies in world trade because of that.

[NavI_027]

One way or another, I believe that taxation in the state should be, because all state structures exist at the expense of taxes.  But at the same time, most of the taxes that fall into the state budget must be paid by entrepreneurs and enterprises, and not by a simple citizen.  In any case, all taxes should remain in local budgets.

I do believe in the same thing, tax is not so harmful than what you think because this is the main source of budget of our government. Who needs a taxless country? IMHO no one as long as there's no anomaly happening! What we need the most are public servants which have outstanding credibilities and don't have bad intentions, these kind of officials are what we need for handling such huge funds and not those corrupt ones. But the problem is how can we assure that a certain official cannot be blinded by money? Well, I hope they must first undergo extreme tests like secret orgs. do when picking their secret agents — only the purest will remain.

[bryant.coleman]

In many countries, if you combine the direct and indirect taxes, they take away 50% to 75% of the net income. I am currently paying close to 30% of my income as personal income tax, and a similar amount in the form of various indirect taxes such as GST and VAT. And after contributing for so much, what I am getting in return? None of the taxpayers would be complaining if the tax revenue is being spent on productive activities.

Rather than spending the tax collections on infrastructure development, education and healthcare, many of the governments around the world wastes them on freebies and bureaucratic expenses. This is counter-productive, as effectively you are taking money from the hard working people and then distributing it to the lazy welfare rats. It discourages people to work hard.

[Polo7]

It's good in paper but it's more complex at it seems, you need full cooperation for public and private sector so most likely they will clash in the end. Plus will government allow that kind of setup? I don't think that they would allow old and traditional just run over by crypto is this is what you are trying to drive out here.

Taxless, Right look at the Examples:
Monaco_Rich People, Even workers who serve rich People Get Good salary. (The little% saved by Not paying taxes goes to workers from rich)

Now Other Example: Finland and Norway they have heavy taxes.
But Country is well developed government have strong social security system.


Now look at the countries where taxes are not high and not low, they have problems!


So the best way is either no Taxes at all or high taxes like Finland.


You look at the countries like Moldova, ukraine... Baltic countries, those countries the tax is not high but its not low... Its something between, Are they doing fine?  No! 

If the taxes are high then the government must be strong to make sure the tax payers money goes for benefits of citizens!


Me personally will prefer no taxes, we should privatize everything  just   Some% for insurance funding in Case Something goes Wrong the all Country have insurance!

If something is privatized it means someone will have responsebility When someone have responsebility its a thing what Can be Functional.


When Everything is owned by Everybody then nobody will not care about Nothing nobody seems to not have responsebility/liability so that Kind of system Can not last long!

[Ozero]

Our society and obligatory fees to finance its common needs have been formed over millennia. With the advent of cryptocurrency, nothing changes in this matter. Cryptocurrency can not do anything new to optimize taxation in the state. Since this activity brings cryptocurrency holders a certain income, it is subject to taxation on a common basis in accordance with the established rules.
We can’t live in a society and do without mandatory tax fees, that is, a tax-free society is impossible.

[leexhin]

I can't get what you are trying to impose, tax is the source of many. We can't live with our own hands at our own expense taxation is the blood of the government to work, its community projects, government employees even the road you drive is product of taxation. There will be substantial deficits if we don't have taxes and worst case scenario there will be more crimes.

[Greed Dev]

Maybe your idea is great, but I still can't understand it. Taxes are a government revenue and expenditure operating in a country and tax exemptions are unlikely. A tax-free society happens when the government meets all the basic needs of citizens, but even if the richest economy still cannot meet the needs of the people, cryptocurrency is born and thrives is a great thing for our future but it's not a solution. Taxes are an important part of every nation, and without that social taxation hardly exists.

[Linkkoin]

Maybe your idea is great, but I still can't understand it. Taxes are a government revenue and expenditure operating in a country and tax exemptions are unlikely. A tax-free society happens when the government meets all the basic needs of citizens, but even if the richest economy still cannot meet the needs of the people, cryptocurrency is born and thrives is a great thing for our future but it's not a solution. Taxes are an important part of every nation, and without that social taxation hardly exists.

The only way the State could avoid taxes as far as possible goes back to the feudalism idea of the monopoly of specific services/goods, so then the revenues were a huge part of the budget. 

[Vishnu.Reang]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes.

I agree. A better idea would be to remove the direct taxes (income tax, corporate tax.etc) and replace them with higher indirect taxes (Value Added Tax, Goods and Service Tax.etc). This will make sure that the richest category can't use loopholes to avoid paying taxes. Also, the tax base will cover the entire population, rather than those who earn above a certain threshold.

[teosanru]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

This is not only complicated but pretty foolish too. If we have two currencies among which one of them is inflationary and other is deflationary. What people will do is hoard the deflationary currency which means they will immediately convert their receipt into bitcoin, litecoin which would make the inflationary currency value rip apart to rock bottom. Everyday the exchange rate would increase and increase. Moreover, this is hypothetical situation as if the private sector is paid by the clients in deflationary currency how would they pay their stakeholders in inflationary money?? Community Interest too would not get any funding as the inflationary currency would take a large dip every other day. So this idea is absolute rubbish.

[doomistake]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes.

I agree with this, the taxes that we are paying plays a huge role in our everyday lives, without it, there would be no hospitals, public transportations, malls, markets, and so on. The taxes makes this society alive everyday, it is kind sad since we all see tax as a not so needed thing in our daily lives, that is why some of us are refusing to pay it even if we are obligated to do so.

Even if we will have a cashless society, there will be still taxes which is the transaction fee of every transaction that we are going to make when we are paying someone or buying something. It is all about give and take to make everything works perfectly.

[micher143]

simply using bitcoin is taxless, so I think that is enough. Bitcoin is decentralized and the Government can't keep a record into your crypto holdings so you don't need to pay tax at all. we just need a mass adoption to became a cashless society.

[darewaller]

Our society and obligatory fees to finance its common needs have been formed over millennia. With the advent of cryptocurrency, nothing changes in this matter. Cryptocurrency can not do anything new to optimize taxation in the state. Since this activity brings cryptocurrency holders a certain income, it is subject to taxation on a common basis in accordance with the established rules.
We can’t live in a society and do without mandatory tax fees, that is, a tax-free society is impossible.

Government are really interested so much in this cryptocurrency trading because of the tax involved and the money that they can get, the united states is already doing everything possible to regulate all exchanges, and then be able to have access to some data that will enable them to tax the traders.

The United Kingdom is also doing exactly same as US is doing too and I must confess to you that I am not really against that because as a citizen, we also have our own obligation if we really want to see our country continue to move forward. I don’t see much reason why people should be evading tax when they are earning because of the infrastructures and something that the government of the country has already put in place for such citizen.

[marcuslong]

I think it's not possible to have a taxless society. Tax of the society helps our community to build a project to help our community to grow.

If this Taxless Society Idea will happen if there is no government in your country. And that's impossible.

[magneto]

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

Why would there be any reason for anyone to hold or use the inflationary money issued by central banks in your hypothetical scenario?

The classic economic theory of "good money drives out bad money" can be applied here. Financing collective interests from your hypothetical inflationary money base is just going to make the demand for these funds go to zero. Everyone is going to rush to the decentralised, deflationary alternative, and no one is going to use the inflationary one at all.

So no, the whole system is going to implode on itself.

I don't think that taxation itself is something that needs to be rid of, but rather unfair, and double taxation, especially in the treatment of cryptos.

[Silberman]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

The problem with the system that you are proposing is that one of the main characteristics of money must be to be a store of value, this is the main reason why the fiat system that is currently in place is failing and it will be the main reason why gold will probably make a comeback and bitcoin will grow exponentially, but in your system not only you have some sort of fiat but that fiat will stop having value after a certain amount of time so no one will want to hold it or to keep it for longer than necessary.

[Brunus]

As annoying as it may be to admit it, the idea of a society without taxes is a contradiction in terms: a society has by definition common parts, which interest everyone, and which must be maintained with the cooperation of all citizens.
With or without bitcoins.

[STT]

Governments are always a tax on society, they arent productive enterprise like companies and people have to be.   The main question is how justified is their expenditure, in the worst countries and economies we see governments which operate without any control or feedback from the population on their spending and in the end their existence becomes self beneficial to a ruling elite.
   The reason we dont want a inflationary method of funding government is because the idea is centralized and without control or resistance from a population, the idea might start off with 1% or some inflation idea in the low percentage but when the going gets tough the government supported by the military and armed police have no reason not to increase inflation as far as they require money.    Every other part of an economy must provide a service, utility or goods in exchange for their profits and in competition to others.   Inflation is especially deceptive method as it causes all prices to inflate and the use of that national is enforced not justified so even as a starting idea it will tend towards failure and ruin of a country.

[Kaller]

Governments are always a tax on society, they arent productive enterprise like companies and people have to be.   The main question is how justified is their expenditure, in the worst countries and economies we see governments which operate without any control or feedback from the population on their spending and in the end their existence becomes self beneficial to a ruling elite.
   The reason we dont want a inflationary method of funding government is because the idea is centralized and without control or resistance from a population, the idea might start off with 1% or some inflation idea in the low percentage but when the going gets tough the government supported by the military and armed police have no reason not to increase inflation as far as they require money.    Every other part of an economy must provide a service, utility or goods in exchange for their profits and in competition to others.   Inflation is especially deceptive method as it causes all prices to inflate and the use of that national is enforced not justified so even as a starting idea it will tend towards failure and ruin of a country.

the government serves the purpose but the question is, where does our tax money go? many countries are corrupt, and instead of tax money going to public infrastructure, it goes to government workers who steal from the taxpayers. It's a shame, because these countries native element, and instead they live in poverty because of corruption.

[eaLiTy]

I don't think that taxation itself is something that needs to be rid of, but rather unfair, and double taxation, especially in the treatment of cryptos.

There is no way that anyone could get rid of taxation but each and every tax payer should know what the government is doing with the money they are collecting and with the help of blockchain we can come up with solutions that will make things transparent and we need to have transparency on the money we pay as tax. I am from a democratic country but i do not think that the government will make anything transparent because there wont be any corruption if everything is transparent.

many countries are corrupt, and instead of tax money going to public infrastructure, it goes to government workers who steal from the taxpayers.

This will be the main reason why some countries will oppose the introduction of blockchain  .

[Heimer]

I don't think that taxation itself is something that needs to be rid of, but rather unfair, and double taxation, especially in the treatment of cryptos.

There is no way that anyone could get rid of taxation but each and every tax payer should know what the government is doing with the money they are collecting and with the help of blockchain we can come up with solutions that will make things transparent and we need to have transparency on the money we pay as tax. I am from a democratic country but i do not think that the government will make anything transparent because there wont be any corruption if everything is transparent.

many countries are corrupt, and instead of tax money going to public infrastructure, it goes to government workers who steal from the taxpayers.

This will be the main reason why some countries will oppose the introduction of blockchain  .

Yeah, exactly... Blockchain is able to eliminate fraud and corruption and this is the sole reason why there are so many rich people and government agencies against cryptocurrencies.

[samcrypto]

One way or another, I believe that taxation in the state should be, because all state structures exist at the expense of taxes.  But at the same time, most of the taxes that fall into the state budget must be paid by entrepreneurs and enterprises, and not by a simple citizen.  In any case, all taxes should remain in local budgets.

Normal people should not pay any taxes or even lower the rate of taxes, i have to agree on this that businesses should be the one to pay higher taxes because they make more money. If we all use cryptocurrency to evade the taxes then I am sure that the government will make regulations that you have to declare your income on cryptomarmet so they can ask you to pay the tax.

[meliodas]

I don't think that a taxless society will work because the tax is the like the heart of any country since that is where they get their fund in order to make new projects and continuously progress their economy. It will be a dumb idea for any country to just turn into a taxless society since they will no longer get any money and their economy will just collapse.

[chirannew22]

my idea is the taxless society is not good. because a goverment cant run the without tax. most of the country largly depend on the tax.

[tenakha]

I don't think that taxation itself is something that needs to be rid of, but rather unfair, and double taxation, especially in the treatment of cryptos.

There is no way that anyone could get rid of taxation but each and every tax payer should know what the government is doing with the money they are collecting and with the help of blockchain we can come up with solutions that will make things transparent and we need to have transparency on the money we pay as tax. I am from a democratic country but i do not think that the government will make anything transparent because there wont be any corruption if everything is transparent.

many countries are corrupt, and instead of tax money going to public infrastructure, it goes to government workers who steal from the taxpayers.

This will be the main reason why some countries will oppose the introduction of blockchain  .

Yeah, exactly... Blockchain is able to eliminate fraud and corruption and this is the sole reason why there are so many rich people and government agencies against cryptocurrencies.

Blockchain and cryptocurrency are different things. I did not hear about the any government against Blockchain (Maybe North Korea?). This system is the best unless better will be created and it is possible to implement it in the future. Nowadays there are governments that test it but suddenly it is not as easy as you think to apply it to the whole world.

[Heimer]

my idea is the taxless society is not good. because a goverment cant run the without tax. most of the country largly depend on the tax.

Why on earth would you need government that can't even run without taxpayers money. Most countries have some sort of businesses in which they own shares and this should be enough for them

[$Andreyka$]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

I think this is utopia. See how hard cryptocurrencies are conquering the world. Now imagine how many agreements you need to reach in order to launch what you are talking about.
Most rulers in the world are not honest. The principle of transparency is not beneficial for them. Perhaps when something like this is possible in the future, but only when humanity faces the threat of extinction.

[Magkirap]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

This was hard actually. Tax has benefits to the people and to the whole country. Maybe it will not be worth it if there is corruption in the government but all in all tax are made for a purpose. To sustain the country's expenses and serve as an allowance for healthcare, education, transportation etc. Also, I dont think there are countries that are living without taxpayer's money. Can you state some countries?

[beej]

It would be like the ancient times, but would also be a bit chaotic. No government
to protect or impose laws. Tax money is the lifeblood of the government, like it
or not we need the government and what it provides.

Though problems tends to surface and arise when it comes to taxes, but on the positive
side of things, if tax money is well spent on projects and services that benefits the people
and nation there should be no problem at all. People have a right to know the whereabouts
and how tax money is spent by the government annually.

[Oilacris]

This was hard actually. Tax has benefits to the people and to the whole country. Maybe it will not be worth it if there is corruption in the government but all in all tax are made for a purpose. To sustain the country's expenses and serve as an allowance for healthcare, education, transportation etc. Also, I dont think there are countries that are living without taxpayer's money. Can you state some countries?

You are right and its hard to think up for a country which doesn't depend on tax or does produce their own money for development and other sectors.

Most people do hate up those tax deductions but as said this is needed for a countries economy to grow and improve and its hard to believe that theres a taxless society.
Even I don't have the idea or knowledge if these countries do exist.

[Heimer]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

This was hard actually. Tax has benefits to the people and to the whole country. Maybe it will not be worth it if there is corruption in the government but all in all tax are made for a purpose. To sustain the country's expenses and serve as an allowance for healthcare, education, transportation etc. Also, I dont think there are countries that are living without taxpayer's money. Can you state some countries?

From what I've experienced I can absolutely say that public are worse than private. Public healthcare - you have to wait very long time to see your doctor and when you finally see him it could be too late to help you. Public education - poor teaching ethic and bullying young people. Public transportation - delays and unpleasant buses, etc...

[Pinkris128]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

From our country which is Philippines, there are some good and very well services at the public establishment and government but there are also a lot has a poor and low quality services like hospitals, healthcare, transportation and many more. If we do the taxless society, how about the maintenance of the public? How about now will maintain the good of education in public schools? if all of them runs with the taxes.

[DaftAjax]

For normal citizens, this probably portrays, angel's singing in the background just because they've heard "taxless society". But what about those people who are knowledgeable about how tax really works. And how it saved/developed/enriched mankind from ever-growing. If you compare it to a human being, tax is like "oxygen/food/water", it's the catalysts that lets you live. Imagine tax hasn't been implemented since then? What do you think our society would be like? or does even a society will ever exist.

I'm sure you're having thoughts on the negative part of taxes, but hey, the good part about it is essential to mankind now and removing/replacing it will lead to crisis, not only an economic crisis but as a whole.

[akirasendo17]

taxless society , I think its a bit unfair in crypto world there is no such thing as tax, if you can see every transactions you made in crypto there is a fee, as you can see if there is no fee's being paid
there will be no miners , same with bank and other institutions they need this to run the network without it there will be no existence of crypto,

[timerland]

I believe this is known as a market economy (a economy where the government doesn't exist, so there are no regulations, taxs, etc).

It would never work. The government is still very important to us, helps with education, public transport, and even though they do over-regulate sometimes, and are sometimes corrupt, they are usually great for us.

[Plecet Bank]

A community without taxes and applied in the country I can not. Taxes are revenue for the government so that taxes cannot be removed. Earnings from Bitcoin indeed in my country have not been exposed to government taxes. But if later the government can legalize Bitcoin, I think the income from Bitcoin will be taxable.

Life if there is no tax like dreaming and living without tax it can only be done in a rich country. Because everybody has a life assurance from the government.

[deisik]

For normal citizens, this probably portrays, angel's singing in the background just because they've heard "taxless society". But what about those people who are knowledgeable about how tax really works. And how it saved/developed/enriched mankind from ever-growing. If you compare it to a human being, tax is like "oxygen/food/water", it's the catalysts that lets you live. Imagine tax hasn't been implemented since then? What do you think our society would be like? or does even a society will ever exist

But aren't humans social beings?

Doesn't it mean that human society can exist with neither government sticking around nor taxes being levied? In my opinion, this is a pretty solid assumption with the conclusion being that it is impossible for the government (the state) to exist without taxes. But society can do pretty well on its own since quite a few had existed long before both governments and taxes came about

Indeed, it is valid to ask that we may in fact need a form of government at a certain point in the development of human civilization, but given that we didn't have such a need before (in prehistorical times), there is no plausible reason to think that we will always need it in the future (along with taxes)

I'm sure you're having thoughts on the negative part of taxes, but hey, the good part about it is essential to mankind now and removing/replacing it will lead to crisis, not only an economic crisis but as a whole

It is not the taxes themselves which are at the root of the evil but rather how they are collected and spent that people disagree with

[Silberman]

As annoying as it may be to admit it, the idea of a society without taxes is a contradiction in terms: a society has by definition common parts, which interest everyone, and which must be maintained with the cooperation of all citizens.
With or without bitcoins.

A certain level of taxation is needed since there are some services that the government needs to provide for the benefit of everyone, the problem comes from the fact that governments begin to abuse the power given to them by the people and begin to charge more taxes so they can become bigger, this creates dependency on the government and they know it but they encourage it since this makes easier to charge even more taxes with the excuse of taxing the rich but eventually a breaking point is reached and the money they get through taxes goes down and that is the first indication of a deep problem for that particular government as they do not know how to function with less money available to them.

[nydiacaskey01]

How it could work Taxless society:

Tax works for us if spent wisely by the government.  We try to pay tax the lowest possible amount legally that's why we keep receipts of everything we think that can reduce our tax. Now if it will be a taxless society and a minimum tax will be taken from an annual basis that government has no control since its Crypto, what will happen to government projects, infrastructure? It will take more time for it to finish because of funding.

[pereira4]

I've always had this idea of a ying-yang system where ying is a deflationary money strictly limited in amount that cannot be counterfeit, shielded from falsification and easy to settle value with and that's Bitcoin. Then you could have the yang, which are inflationary bank notes based upon this reserve asset. Those could be the second layers of Bitcoin, and banks would compete with each other to deliver the best rates. Hal Finney had this idea back in 2009.

As far as taxes goes, as far as there is a government, there will be a need for taxes. Corruption is the problem, but with a system like Bitcoin + second layers for credit, it would be way more morally correct than the hyperinflation unsustainable insanity. Blockchain also allows to know where your tax money goes. Im all about helping the less fortunate through taxes, I just hate being ripped off.

[Btcvilla]

What have to pay taxless but using for other way by government, many country have trouble with Taxless society where taxless money using for not all of people, many person who working in government excatly on taxless using is for their self. Make many people low trusted for paying taxless in some country.

[ivakar]

back to 2002. I was in Dubai, that was the golden time there. I was working in a company situated at Jebel Free Zone and we literally pay no taxes at all.
you have to pay once per year a licence fee for company registration and that's all.
but those times are over, now Dubai also have VAT and other taxes. that means that without taxes a government can't survive

[carlfebz2]

How it could work Taxless society:

Tax works for us if spent wisely by the government.  We try to pay tax the lowest possible amount legally that's why we keep receipts of everything we think that can reduce our tax. Now if it will be a taxless society and a minimum tax will be taken from an annual basis that government has no control since its Crypto, what will happen to government projects, infrastructure? It will take more time for it to finish because of funding.

This is the side effect on having the idea of taxless or minimal tax society where it do mainly affects infrastructure and other development matters and gov't services.
Why people hate tax too much? If you do live on a corrupt country then this one might be a valid reason but if not and if we do saw that our country does progress then
it shouldnt really be an issue.These funds are crucial on countries development it will just depend on how those officials would use it on a proper way.

[AicecreaME]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes.

Printing money specially for community purpose and specially for real business is taxless situation not "tax on owning money".
Why would no one want that money if it is a separate part that finances common interest and real business (money created at the time of need)?

Printing money for just community purpose will be no different from the current system where people are just looking at how to avoid or pay less taxes in different ways, which again that earnings from taxes does not end up 100% for the purposes it should go.

The inflation would be the same and value of money would remain the same with the same monetary policy, only the way of financing common interest will changes and the real business sector gets true freedom.

Inflation could be controlled mathematically with issuing and with coin burning.

Printing money is indeed for the community purpose, depending on how much the economy needs, but, we can't print money whenever we feel to do it, it will just increase the inflation rate, believe it or not.

I think that taxless society can be possible with just more transparency and with more math.

Sad to say this but the world economy can't survive without taxes, taxes are the oxygen of the society, without it, we won't have any building structures like cell sites, companies, shopping malls, public transportation, roads, hospitals, you could see it all in the public places, without all of that, we are like living on the stone age because of our greediness about money. Taxes have its own purpose, we just have to understand what is it really for so we won't look like an idiot.

[Argoo]

Our society has been developing for a very long time and not one of them could exist for a long time without fees for common needs, called tax. The idea of ​​a tax-free society is unrealistic. This has long been proven by the history of human development. Society must build roads, pay doctors, teachers and other people who do not produce wealth for their work, maintain their army and much more. Without this, there will be chaos; such a society will easily be swallowed up by a stronger organization in terms of allocating funds for general expenses.

[DaftAjax]

1) But aren't humans social beings?.... But society can do pretty well on its own since quite a few had existed long before both governments and taxes came about

2) Indeed, it is valid to ask that we may in fact need a form of government at a certain point in the development of human civilization, but given that we didn't have such a need before (in prehistorical times), there is no plausible reason to think that we will always need it in the future (along with taxes)

3) It is not the taxes themselves which are at the root of the evil but rather how they are collected and spent that people disagree with

1) I might've mixed up things, what I meant to say is that the country as a whole. But isn't it given that a society is being led by someone(?), thus making it a government(?)

2) So you're saying that in the future, government and tax will not matter in the future(?) How so? Are we talking about Post-Apocalypse here?
    OR you're just saying that there's gonna be a system that surpasses government and tax and that everyone isn't at neither advantage nor disadvantage?

3) Agreed, and the government doesn't have any plans on being transparent either.

[deisik]

1) But aren't humans social beings?.... But society can do pretty well on its own since quite a few had existed long before both governments and taxes came about

2) Indeed, it is valid to ask that we may in fact need a form of government at a certain point in the development of human civilization, but given that we didn't have such a need before (in prehistorical times), there is no plausible reason to think that we will always need it in the future (along with taxes)

3) It is not the taxes themselves which are at the root of the evil but rather how they are collected and spent that people disagree with

1) I might've mixed up things, what I meant to say is that the country as a whole. But isn't it given that a society is being led by someone(?), thus making it a government(?)

Actually, you could say that

And call it a proto-government, leadership, or whatever. But it naturally (as opposed to being forced) comes about only when there is a need for that, i.e. when a certain society becomes too big and complex, making solving issues directly by the consensus prohibitively expensive in terms of effort and time. Thus, they are solved by a group of selected individuals ("government") who are delegated such authority by the consensus. I don't consider the case when this authority is taken by force as we have assumed that it should be natural ("self-inflicted"), not imposed

2) So you're saying that in the future, government and tax will not matter in the future(?) How so? Are we talking about Post-Apocalypse here?

No, I definitely didn't mean the Mad Max scenario

What I meant could be loosely construed as a government-less society, technically, a form of anarchy (but without the lawlessness of the latter). This is mostly a theoretical construct still. No government means no taxes, i.e. what counts as taxes now could then be just a regular price for a service just like any other service out there

[mamahdedeh]

Our society has been developing for a very long time and not one of them could exist for a long time without fees for common needs, called tax. The idea of ​​a tax-free society is unrealistic. This has long been proven by the history of human development. Society must build roads, pay doctors, teachers and other people who do not produce wealth for their work, maintain their army and much more. Without this, there will be chaos; such a society will easily be swallowed up by a stronger organization in terms of allocating funds for general expenses.

tax will be very useful for the justice of a country against its people. with taxes the weak economic community can feel the development of a country, so hopefully they can also develop in their respective fields, so this is inevitable to achieve tax exemption. because a country's biggest financing is in the taxes we pay

[abhiseshakana]

back to 2002. I was in Dubai, that was the golden time there. I was working in a company situated at Jebel Free Zone and we literally pay no taxes at all.
you have to pay once per year a licence fee for company registration and that's all.
but those times are over, now Dubai also have VAT and other taxes. that means that without taxes a government can't survive

It is not quite right to say that the state cannot survive without taxes. A country can survive without tax as long as natural resources can sustain the lives of its people and if the level of dependence on other countries is small. Dubai applies taxes after oil prices fall which causes income to decrease, taxes are applied to overcome the budget deficit because the state subsidizes so that its people enjoy cheap oil. So the application of tax in Dubai is not the only way to overcome the deficit and once the tax application policy was revoked to encourage investment into Dubai.

Diversification of income through taxes is not necessarily effective in every country. With taxes, the state can maintain its independence. Rich or poor countries still need taxes to encourage development and equitable distribution of welfare. Besides that, as I explained before, taxes are loaded with state interests and are used as instruments.

[Silberman]

How it could work Taxless society:

Tax works for us if spent wisely by the government.  We try to pay tax the lowest possible amount legally that's why we keep receipts of everything we think that can reduce our tax. Now if it will be a taxless society and a minimum tax will be taken from an annual basis that government has no control since its Crypto, what will happen to government projects, infrastructure? It will take more time for it to finish because of funding.

It is my opinion that most governments are simply too big, most governments are getting a lot more taxes than what they need to pay for things like infrastructure or services like the police or firefighters, right now governments are trying to redistribute the wealth, but that is a futile exercise because their attempt to do so is really inefficient since most of the money that they get for that purpose is consumed by the government itself and the infrastructure they have created to redistribute that wealth.

[Pearls Before Swine]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations.

And that isn't the only problem.  Not that I entirely understand op's proposal, but I don't think any crypto regardless of how its structured, can do away with tax funded state services.  There's a good reason why this model has been around for centuries, and I am a firm believer that citizens are overtaxed in general.  The taxes we pay are used to pay for a wide variety of things that would not get paid for otherwise.  Roads, schools, the military, etc.

On top of all that, gov'ts haven't exactly been overly enthusiastic about the blockchain revolution or even of bitcoin.  They aren't likely to adopt a crypto model in order to do away with taxes.  Sorry to pop your bubble, op, but it isn't going to happen in your lifetime and probably not at all, ever.

[ecnalubma]

Taxless society will result to chaos and printing more money is not a solution to consider. "Tax is thief" yet but if spend in a proper way by the government we will experience convenience in our society. Taxes cannot be remove, a country depends on it to build infrastructures, schools and hospitals etc. Taxes are only burden if it takes huge percentage of your income but if the government is earning enough through its controlled companies then they will take less from you.

[Genemind]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

[matchi2011]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

[Silberman]

Taxless society will result to chaos and printing more money is not a solution to consider. "Tax is thief" yet but if spend in a proper way by the government we will experience convenience in our society. Taxes cannot be remove, a country depends on it to build infrastructures, schools and hospitals etc. Taxes are only burden if it takes huge percentage of your income but if the government is earning enough through its controlled companies then they will take less from you.

Personally I do not subscribe to the taxation is theft theory, some level of taxation is needed to maintain the services we all need, but there are currently two huge problems, the first one is that the level of taxation is too high and this is slowing down the economy and the second is that the laws in place are too complex, paying your taxes is too difficult and there are too many exceptions, in my opinion the system needs to be simplified and governments needs to get smaller for the economy to recover.

[DaftAjax]

And call it a proto-government, leadership, or whatever. But it naturally (as opposed to being forced) comes about only when there is a need for that, i.e. when a certain society becomes too big and complex, making solving issues directly by the consensus prohibitively expensive in terms of effort and time. Thus, they are solved by a group of selected individuals ("government") who are delegated such authority by the consensus. I don't consider the case when this authority is taken by force as we have assumed that it should be natural ("self-inflicted"), not imposed

So, what you're saying is, when it comes to "proto-government, leadership", and ("self-inflicted"), we will rely on trust? So you believe that since a ("government") is unavoidable such as this case, it'll come out naturally? Well, technically, forming a government needs (trust) even if its delegated, but I am not worried about the leader, government whatever ('cause they are "the selected" people) but the other members of the society (the common people). Do you honestly think a society could be as "organized" or even better without an acting "government"?

What I meant could be loosely construed as a government-less society, technically, a form of anarchy (but without the lawlessness of the latter). This is mostly a theoretical construct still. No government means no taxes, i.e. what counts as taxes now could then be just a regular price for a service just like any other service out there

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of, the lawlessness of this "type" of government.

You might think that I may be against the idea but actually, no. I'm having thoughts on the consequences if this would ever happen. I genuinely think that this could only work if the "society" is comprised of people who respected and trusted everyone, which in case of a human being is quite impossible.

[bryant.coleman]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

Most of the citizens are having a false impression that the taxes are mostly being used for infrastructure projects, education and healthcare. In reality that is not the case. In countries such as the US, most of the tax collected is being used for waging wars and for administrative expenses. The Iraq war alone cost the American taxpayers around $2 trillion (and the bill is still climbing).

Take a look at this chart, and it will be clear:

[kayvie]

Taxless society will result to chaos and printing more money is not a solution to consider. "Tax is thief" yet but if spend in a proper way by the government we will experience convenience in our society. Taxes cannot be remove, a country depends on it to build infrastructures, schools and hospitals etc. Taxes are only burden if it takes huge percentage of your income but if the government is earning enough through its controlled companies then they will take less from you.

Personally I do not subscribe to the taxation is theft theory, some level of taxation is needed to maintain the services we all need, but there are currently two huge problems, the first one is that the level of taxation is too high and this is slowing down the economy and the second is that the laws in place are too complex, paying your taxes is too difficult and there are too many exceptions, in my opinion the system needs to be simplified and governments needs to get smaller for the economy to recover.

Taxation service has already been done even before. It is the fund that the government will used to fund the needs of the country, including the road repair, maintaining the peace from the help of our police,soldiers, navy and so on. Without the taxation, there will be no law, and without law, every country will be doomed.

[STT]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes.

Holy moly I feel ill, I know so many people believe this because propaganda works but still on this forum to see it written    
   Taxes are for government, the economy is an entirely different ecosystem to politics and business will always continue without politics because it is necessary and because society demands and is willing to pay for it.    The more taxes you have, the greater the burden on the real economy.   Sure people will argue well government employs some people and so more government is more employment but look where government took the money from and its the real productive economy.    Government loses money on everything it does and almost anything a government can do it will do less well then a company that must be competitive, efficient and profit making or it will cease to exist.   At what point does government operations cease, sometimes never because they have the backing of military and very little justification is required for them to continue forever.
   One of the few things to restrict governments are fiscal budgets and the ability to raise debt, we are living in the end game of a system without limit currently and the debt has been endless.   Its part of the story of what is causing FIAT to fail and likely crypto to take over from that failure.   Its quite inevitable unfortunately, the debts on many places in many nations cannot be repaid ever.

The statement above is quite close to the opposite of the truth and I dont blame anyone for saying it because alot maybe the majority believe it but this how far we are from the truth and the how painful its going to be to walk back to the road to prosperity from this viewpoint that more and more government is how to win.   I dont know if we go full socialism or not, I hope not because people can starve to death.   China had famine within my living memory and I aint that old, they boom now in comparison but we dont want to swap places with what they did so often.
   Only things I think of for government, is defence of the nation which is military but domestic not foreign campaigns and I wont argue with healthcare as people are a great investment.  If you can at least get them to survive to adulthood, people give exponential returns so even if healthcare costs a fortune its at least got some justification behind it, waging wars, many other big spends by government are just failures and it doesnt make us stronger to divert GDP to taxes.

[Rodeo02]

Taxless society will result to chaos and printing more money is not a solution to consider. "Tax is thief" yet but if spend in a proper way by the government we will experience convenience in our society. Taxes cannot be remove, a country depends on it to build infrastructures, schools and hospitals etc. Taxes are only burden if it takes huge percentage of your income but if the government is earning enough through its controlled companies then they will take less from you.

Personally I do not subscribe to the taxation is theft theory, some level of taxation is needed to maintain the services we all need, but there are currently two huge problems, the first one is that the level of taxation is too high and this is slowing down the economy and the second is that the laws in place are too complex, paying your taxes is too difficult and there are too many exceptions, in my opinion the system needs to be simplified and governments needs to get smaller for the economy to recover.

Taxation service has already been done even before. It is the fund that the government will used to fund the needs of the country, including the road repair, maintaining the peace from the help of our police,soldiers, navy and so on. Without the taxation, there will be no law, and without law, every country will be doomed.

And crime rate will increase without tax . The tax is needed by the government not only for insfrastructure , but mostly to help people who cant afford to pay for health services  ,piece tax use for  as payment for soldier and police .  Education for  public teacher government will also pay for thier salary.

[DaftAjax]

~snip

Holy moly what a roller coaster.

I don't know what grudge you have for the government but at least here, keep it professional. As bad the image of the government is to the public, I'm quite certain that, in this era, we still need an acting government. I'm not saying that I'm pro to them, I'm just saying that all the services they provide are still needed by the citizens, well the majority of people at least.

Can you provide me insights about why does the government (and its taxes) does not correlate/connected to the economic system? Because I'm skeptical about it, even if politics and businesses cannot mix ever, politics is still essential for businesses, imo at least.

[deisik]

And call it a proto-government, leadership, or whatever. But it naturally (as opposed to being forced) comes about only when there is a need for that, i.e. when a certain society becomes too big and complex, making solving issues directly by the consensus prohibitively expensive in terms of effort and time. Thus, they are solved by a group of selected individuals ("government") who are delegated such authority by the consensus. I don't consider the case when this authority is taken by force as we have assumed that it should be natural ("self-inflicted"), not imposed

So, what you're saying is, when it comes to "proto-government, leadership", and ("self-inflicted"), we will rely on trust? So you believe that since a ("government") is unavoidable such as this case, it'll come out naturally? Well, technically, forming a government needs (trust) even if its delegated, but I am not worried about the leader, government whatever ('cause they are "the selected" people) but the other members of the society (the common people). Do you honestly think a society could be as "organized" or even better without an acting "government"?

Could you please rephrase your thought?

You speak in so vague terms that it is hard to get what you are actually trying to say. Anyway, if something is unavoidable, the issue of trust becomes kinda irrelevant as what is unavoidable will inevitably come about in a "natural way", trust or no trust. Regarding a society being as "organized" or even better without an acting "government", that obviously depends on your understanding of "organized"

You might think that I may be against the idea but actually, no. I'm having thoughts on the consequences if this would ever happen. I genuinely think that this could only work if the "society" is comprised of people who respected and trusted everyone, which in case of a human being is quite impossible

That's not necessarily so

And we don't need to change a human animal in certain ways (think eugenics here). As I'm inclined to think, we could get there when we have a certain level of integration between people as a whole that would allow to have a form of distributed government but without the typical drawbacks as well as overheads of a regular one (think taxes here). Indeed, some things should remain centralized but more and more could be taken and re-delegated back to "people". And it can also be a natural process (read, more or less inevitable and unavoidable)

[Janation]

And crime rate will increase without tax . The tax is needed by the government not only for insfrastructure , but mostly to help people who cant afford to pay for health services  ,piece tax use for  as payment for soldier and police .  Education for  public teacher government will also pay for thier salary.

I don't think the crime rate will be increasing, the chaos might be.

People would be really happen without tax, don't you think?

But without tax, then it is a dead country since they said that Tax is the blood of the country, without it, the country will die. A lot of companies will be earning a lot of money especially companies managing, for example, tobacco and alcohol drinks.

[meliodas]

And crime rate will increase without tax . The tax is needed by the government not only for insfrastructure , but mostly to help people who cant afford to pay for health services  ,piece tax use for  as payment for soldier and police .  Education for  public teacher government will also pay for thier salary.

I don't think the crime rate will be increasing, the chaos might be.

People would be really happen without tax, don't you think?

But without tax, then it is a dead country since they said that Tax is the blood of the country, without it, the country will die. A lot of companies will be earning a lot of money especially companies managing, for example, tobacco and alcohol drinks.

Tax is very essential and it is the reason why a country is running and progressing. It is impossible for a country to survive long term without a tax collection because they will not be able to continue their activities since they can't handle the expenses. On the other hand, people might just throw the government away since the government doesn't have any power over the people because they got no money.

[EdvinZ]

The additional issue of coins instead of taxes is essentially equivalent to inflation and will devalue citizens ' money. I think that we need to improve the existing tax system, and not try to completely dramatically change the tax economy to a tax-free one. This can lead to unpredictable consequences and a big financial crisis.

[deisik]

And crime rate will increase without tax . The tax is needed by the government not only for insfrastructure , but mostly to help people who cant afford to pay for health services  ,piece tax use for  as payment for soldier and police .  Education for  public teacher government will also pay for thier salary.

I don't think the crime rate will be increasing, the chaos might be

Chaos is what makes crimes take over society

Whenever there is failure of authority and ensuing lack of law enforcement people quickly turn into beasts (Mad Max scenario), so if the reduction of taxes leads to less effective law enforcement, criminals of all sorts will definitely take advantage of this opportunity to get away unscathed with their criminal activities. But overall, it is a complex issue as more law enforcement (read, more taxes) doesn't necessarily lead to more law and order. There should be a balance, middle ground or golden mean of sorts

[STT]

I don't know what grudge you have for the government but at least here, keep it professional. As bad the image of the government is to the public, I'm quite certain that, in this era, we still need an acting government.

I dont have a grudge against any government but we have an uncontrolled situation presently where government is able to spend far past their means and also the means of the country to support the spending and the debt they are accumulating.     Iam allergic to being horribly poor and unfortunately bad governments can quite easily make everyone in a country poor.
  The very richest people will be just fine as they can straddle multiple countries, store wealth where they choose and their income is not bound to local prospects.   The very well educated can move to another country and use their skills that are in demand globally.   The very poorest people have no choice, no capital to leave their country when its ruined by a government that consumes over 50% of GDP.
  Acting government is just fine, act on the peoples requests but we have governments so large they dominate the whole of the country.   Right now we dont find thats a problem but quite a few countries have over 50,000 in debt per person in their nation.   This is my problem, Im not that rich to pay that off and most people I know cannot pay back that debt that wasnt even spent by me.
  Compared to new spending programs and campaigns its boring and tiresome to mention but in future it'll be a problem we lament and sadly I have no yacht to sail away from these problems so I know I'm going to end up poorer from excessive government, its no grudge just serious apprehension that we have a failed situation here just as serious the problems Greece faced.  

https://usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

 I should quote many sources but none of this is a secret just the varied point of view is 'government (over)spending is necessary' or similar, it will fail and then it doesnt matter the opinion as we wont have the capital to spend.   The correct route right now is to run a budget surplus, please tell if any prospective candidate in any election of any nation says those words.
 The OP is seriously misguided in thinking inflation counts as taxless or even that governments should ever be funded in this way but in the current context its normal which will make the abrupt stop all the worse.

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

Time dated money has been issued in China many years ago apparently.   After a certain date all these notes would no longer be honoured.   Our current QE programs however have come nowhere close to being neutralised and likely never will, if you have any dollar based pension it likely wont be worth alot and probably similarly true in many currencies.

[doomistake]

And crime rate will increase without tax . The tax is needed by the government not only for insfrastructure , but mostly to help people who cant afford to pay for health services  ,piece tax use for  as payment for soldier and police .  Education for  public teacher government will also pay for thier salary.

I don't think the crime rate will be increasing, the chaos might be

Chaos is what makes crimes take over society

Whenever there is failure of authority and ensuing lack of law enforcement people quickly turn into beasts (Mad Max scenario), so if the reduction of taxes leads to less effective law enforcement, criminals of all sorts will definitely take advantage of this opportunity to get away unscathed with their criminal activities. But overall, it is a complex issue as more law enforcement (read, more taxes) doesn't necessarily lead to more law and order. There should be a balance, middle ground or golden mean of sorts

I agree, this tax less society that we're thinking is a society that is blind and has no purpose at all, it's too much freedom, in my opinion. Tax less society is like we're saying that Government should be annihilated and we're just going to act individually without any law and restrictions, with this kind of society, therefore I am sure that this humanity and mother earth last hope is going to be a dream that's not going to become a reality anymore.

Being greedy this much doesn't make sense at all, we worship money too much and it's the reason why everyone of us will be dead in the future, the greediness, selfishness, and not having a unity.

[DaftAjax]

~snip....that obviously depends on your understanding of "organized"

My apologies, I tend to blabber a lot, I should just be direct.

Exactly! That's what I'm trying to explain. It will depend on the understanding of every member of the "society", the meaning of "organized" as a "society". AFAIK, every person has their own point of view on things. Since there's no "law", as there's no acting "government", e.g. if one member doesn't agree on the decision of the majority, the said person will tend to do either commit a crime or just accept the situation whatever it may be.

And we don't need to change a human animal in certain ways (think eugenics here). As I'm inclined to think, we could get there when we have a certain level of integration between people as a whole that would allow to have a form of distributed government but without the typical drawbacks as well as overheads of a regular one (think taxes here). Indeed, some things should remain centralized but more and more could be taken and re-delegated back to "people". And it can also be a natural process (read, more or less inevitable and unavoidable)

After reading this, I must admit, I'm speechless and enlightened at the same time.

This will be possible. But it will only be applicable to very selective-people--people who are as sympathetic as you are, I guess. If these conditions are met, then this "society" will exist.

[DabsPoorVersion]

And crime rate will increase without tax . The tax is needed by the government not only for insfrastructure , but mostly to help people who cant afford to pay for health services  ,piece tax use for  as payment for soldier and police .  Education for  public teacher government will also pay for thier salary.

I don't think the crime rate will be increasing, the chaos might be

Chaos is what makes crimes take over society

Whenever there is failure of authority and ensuing lack of law enforcement people quickly turn into beasts (Mad Max scenario), so if the reduction of taxes leads to less effective law enforcement, criminals of all sorts will definitely take advantage of this opportunity to get away unscathed with their criminal activities. But overall, it is a complex issue as more law enforcement (read, more taxes) doesn't necessarily lead to more law and order. There should be a balance, middle ground or golden mean of sorts

I agree, this tax less society that we're thinking is a society that is blind and has no purpose at all, it's too much freedom, in my opinion. Tax less society is like we're saying that Government should be annihilated and we're just going to act individually without any law and restrictions, with this kind of society, therefore I am sure that this humanity and mother earth last hope is going to be a dream that's not going to become a reality anymore.

Being greedy this much doesn't make sense at all, we worship money too much and it's the reason why everyone of us will be dead in the future, the greediness, selfishness, and not having a unity.

Taxless society is just an idea for those people who thinks that without government regulation there will be a better life. Taxless society will just give our life a chaos, illegal activities will increase and there will be no development that will occur in our county. People will only think about money and its not good to praise money than freedom.

[DaftAjax]

~snip

~snip...1) Iam allergic to being horribly poor and unfortunately bad governments can quite easily make everyone in a country poor.
  a) The very richest people will be just fine as they can straddle multiple countries, store wealth where they choose and their income is not bound to local prospects. 
  b) The very well educated can move to another country and use their skills that are in demand globally. 
  c) The very poorest people have no choice, no capital to leave their country when its ruined by a government that consumes over 50% of GDP.
  2) Acting government is just fine, act on the peoples requests but we have governments so large they dominate the whole of the country.   Right now we dont find thats a problem but quite a few countries have over 50,000 in debt per person in their nation.   This is my problem, Im not that rich to pay that off and most people I know cannot pay back that debt that wasnt even spent by me.
  Compared to new spending programs and campaigns its boring and tiresome to mention but in future it'll be a problem we lament and sadly I have no yacht to sail away from these problems so I know I'm going to end up poorer from excessive government, its no grudge just serious apprehension that we have a failed situation here just as serious the problems Greece faced.   

https://usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

3) I should quote many sources but none of this is a secret just the varied point of view is 'government (over)spending is necessary' or similar, it will fail and then it doesnt matter the opinion as we wont have the capital to spend.   The correct route right now is to run a budget surplus, please tell if any prospective candidate in any election of any nation says those words.
 a) The OP is seriously misguided in thinking inflation counts as taxless or even that governments should ever be funded in this way but in the current context its normal which will make the abrupt stop all the worse.

That's quite informative, props to you my friend.

1) I can sympathize with this one. This applies mostly to 2nd ~ 3rd-world-countries, well, 1st-world-countries have poor people but it's not as inferior as the others.
  a) Rich people know how to "manage" their wealth, they have financial freedom. That's a given.
  b) Educated people know how to gain wealth. That's also a given.
  c) No, poor people can have a choice. It has been proven many times over, those who strive and persevere through hardships will be successful. But that will depend on your understanding of "successful". The government isn't always responsible for this.

2) I'm about to say "we can't blame them..." but I'm just gonna say, well they are "the government". (read) Depending on the "type of government", their decisions are absolute. Someone said, "we were 35 years late", it has always been a problem for almost every country, my friend.

3) Some candidates/delegated politicians mention it on their agendas--some acts on it, but fails; some just said so, just to gain supporters.
  a) I don't think he's misguided, he's naive, and lacks knowledge about the subject at hand.

[SquallLeonhart]

It is not quite right to say that the state cannot survive without taxes. A country can survive without tax as long as natural resources can sustain the lives of its people and if the level of dependence on other countries is small. Dubai applies taxes after oil prices fall which causes income to decrease, taxes are applied to overcome the budget deficit because the state subsidizes so that its people enjoy cheap oil. So the application of tax in Dubai is not the only way to overcome the deficit and once the tax application policy was revoked to encourage investment into Dubai.

Diversification of income through taxes is not necessarily effective in every country. With taxes, the state can maintain its independence. Rich or poor countries still need taxes to encourage development and equitable distribution of welfare. Besides that, as I explained before, taxes are loaded with state interests and are used as instruments.

The function of tax is not only to put money in the purse of the government for them to spend, but it is also good for them to be able to control some certain things in the country, if you look at the issue of Electricity, the reason why electricity is stable in some countries is because the citizens knows how to control their gadget, and the reason for that is that they pay tax, if they don’t pay tax, they will have nonchalant attitude over managing power which will put more load on what the country can generate.

I know that we have natural resources but these natural resources, government would not make use of it themselves, they still have to engage the citizens, and you know that the proceeds from it cannot be taken completely from them, so it would still have to come in form of tax.

[Colt81]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

[tungaqhd]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

Some people always think that the government will be corrupt, the money we pay taxes will be in vain, it only serves some individuals in the government apparatus, this thinking is not wrong when the corruption in the government is always exposed in the news every year. However, we should not just look at such a bad side, we need to look at the positives of the tax payment process, facilities, equipment, everything around us are upgraded, evils and robberies will decrease with a high educational level, no taxes, no one is responsible for these issues

[Zeke_23]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

[jmigdlc99]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes.

Well said. A taxless society simply would not work in this day and age. Radical ideas like this, although they sound beautiful and rosy, are just idealistic adventures that have no place in a free and democratic society. I'd be more agreeable if we lived in a tyrannical communistic society, but luckily we don't.

A wise man once said, "nothing is permanent except death and taxes."

[deisik]

Exactly! That's what I'm trying to explain. It will depend on the understanding of every member of the "society", the meaning of "organized" as a "society". AFAIK, every person has their own point of view on things. Since there's no "law", as there's no acting "government", e.g. if one member doesn't agree on the decision of the majority, the said person will tend to do either commit a crime or just accept the situation whatever it may be

In fact, there is law

And it has always been there. The codified law you implicitly refer to in your post is only a subset of a wider system of unwritten laws and traditions existing in society. So it is not the lack of law as such which would be at the root of potential problems that a society without government would likely encounter but rather the lack of law enforcement, which is part of the government (and therefore, part of the problem). In other words, as soon as we are able to solve this little hindrance, we can happily live without any government and don't sink into lawlessness and chaos soon thereafter

This will be possible. But it will only be applicable to very selective-people--people who are as sympathetic as you are, I guess. If these conditions are met, then this "society" will exist

We can hope for that, even if it would require a quantum leap of sorts. But at least we don't need evolution for this leap anyway (read, we don't have to wait another few million years)

[DaftAjax]

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

Not quite true.

Scientific researches and discoveries can be done by the government themselves, they're called government-funded researches; or non-government, and even private companies, e.g. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is an independent agency of the United States Federal Government, provides space discoveries; Elon Musk's SpaceX and Tesla provides various new technologies to improve life, essentially. So it is not bound to the government, even back then some discoveries and researches are not backed-up by the government, in fact, discoveries and researches are directly presented to the authorities(the government), to gain their approval for the public.

I think you might want to "discover" and "research" about what the government really does with tax (no pun intended).

[DaftAjax]

~snip

In fact, there is law

And it has always been there. The codified law you implicitly refer to in your post is only a subset of a wider system of unwritten laws and traditions existing in society. So it is not the lack of law as such which would be at the root of potential problems that a society without government would likely encounter but rather the lack of law enforcement, which is part of the government (and therefore, part of the problem). In other words, as soon as we are able to solve this little hindrance, we can happily live without any government and don't sink into lawlessness and chaos soon thereafter

Hmm, all this time I was confused about what "law" really implies. I always thought that the governement "created" the "law". And tbh, I haven't thought about traditions to have innate "law", but there's always has been. AFAIK, these "unwritten laws", I reckon they're subjective to "moral conducts". I say that because if a "society" is to follow traditions, which are embedded with "unwritten laws", "moral conducts" are the only things to be considered--no need for the government (no need for law enforcement); no need for taxes.

~snip

We can hope for that, even if it would require a quantum leap of sorts. But at least we don't need evolution for this leap anyway (read, we don't have to wait another few million years)

Agreed. (What I'm about to say is based on how I understand "being human") If ever we achieved such circumstances, do you think we are still considered as "human beings"? Because I'm so fixated on humans being violent(or kind), irrational(or rational).

[ifinta]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

The idea is very interesting. It would be fine to try it. I have some "taxless" society ideas also. i.e. 'No' Republica, Vortexledger... Other one is Charm. 100 Charm are a Kiss, 1111 Charm are a Thank. And Curtly - but there the community will be get fees from the transactions and the from long run don't used (stolen? or loosed?) coins.

[deisik]

If you'll try to replace taxes with printing money (which is effectively a tax on owning money), you'll just destroy your economy, because no one would want to own money and the inflation would be much higher than what would you expect from simple calculations. Taxes can be very complex, there are tons of rules that can increase, decrease or even remove taxes for certain situation, meanwhile printing money just affects everyone the same, so this idea is much worse than taxes

The so-called inflation tax is most harmful to those who receive the new money the last

And since the government printing money has this money before anyone else, they can easily abuse the purchasing power which they essentially receive for free at the expense of the whole society (real, simple people). In fact, that's what all governments do whenever their very existence is threatened (for example, in war or economic collapse)

Well said. A taxless society simply would not work in this day and age. Radical ideas like this, although they sound beautiful and rosy, are just idealistic adventures that have no place in a free and democratic society. I'd be more agreeable if we lived in a tyrannical communistic society, but luckily we don't

If taxes can be paid directly, i.e. as a price for services and goods offered, a taxless society would become a reality. Moreover, it would be a better reality due to less corruption and inefficiency caused by the tax system itself (read, we could safely dismantle it altogether)

[serjent05]

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

Not quite true.

Scientific researches and discoveries can be done by the government themselves, they're called government-funded researches; or non-government, and even private companies, e.g. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is an independent agency of the United States Federal Government, provides space discoveries; Elon Musk's SpaceX and Tesla provides various new technologies to improve life, essentially. So it is not bound to the government, even back then some discoveries and researches are not backed-up by the government, in fact, discoveries and researches are directly presented to the authorities(the government), to gain their approval for the public.

I think you might want to "discover" and "research" about what the government really does with tax (no pun intended).

Well, government expenses is not limited to researches alone, they have to do maintenance and development of country's infrastructure.   We can remove science research out of the budget of the government as you said, it was funded privately, but things like employees salary, infrastructure development and maintenance, penal colony maintenance and other stuff needs fund.  And  one of the government major source of fund is tax. 

with this I believe a taxless society idea is delusional because it is impossible to happen.

[STT]

c) No, poor people can have a choice. It has been proven many times over, those who strive and persevere through hardships will be successful. But that will depend on your understanding of "successful". The government isn't always responsible for this.

Thats capitalism, I respect the ordinary people as being the bulk of a countrys wealth in that the fastest growth can come from the very smallest of productive enterprises.  100% growth for someone who starts a business is possible and if we consider the millions across the country taking on this task then we have a great wealth of production possible.    However we have to allow the people to operate, excessive taxes restrict and even stop them.  The burden of red tape is disproportionate, the largest companies can devote a cadre of lawyers to navigate the legal minefield that government leaves in its wake where as a solo trader only knows the skills they do best and must consult others at great cost to avoid becoming illegal in their honest trade.    Large government quite often criminalizes their population by the clumsy moves and endless laws passed.   I love that opportunity for all but its not a given in even democracies now.
    Inflation as a tax undermines the smallest operations also, again they are bound to the local economy where as large companies have international arbitrage.  Inflation erodes value with little given in exchange, the largest companies will deliberately borrow to benefit from loose money policy of government with large debt.  Microsoft maybe the richest company in the world borrows to pay their share dividends because the yield on the debt is below the yield on the shares and even below the rate of inflation so debt is a negative cost to them.  The common person is worse off with large government and inflation attacks the smallest participants in an economy most aggressively.

[DaftAjax]

~snip

~snip

Well, government expenses is not limited to researches alone, they have to do maintenance and development of country's infrastructure.   We can remove science research out of the budget of the government as you said, it was funded privately, but things like employees salary, infrastructure development and maintenance, penal colony maintenance and other stuff needs fund.  And  one of the government major source of fund is tax. 

with this I believe a taxless society idea is delusional because it is impossible to happen.

Labor, Development, and Maintenance--intriguing. Definitely, most of the taxes went to these three things.

Labor is probably the most "paid" (not paid by 'how much', but paid by 'how many'), considering how big and clunky the government is. Besides, no one works for free now. Inflation is good for the economy, but not for the people. Further inflation could lead to unemployment which eventually affects the economy. Deflation, on the other hand, is probably one of the keys to having a taxless society. Maintenance is also needy, not only it requires funds from the government it also needs "labor". Probably the one thing that needs most of the attention from the government. Development, this one also requires funds and labor, but I think this is on the downside. But the government should consider it because development means less labor.

A taxless society isn't delusional at all. Way before the government and tax becomes relevant, groups of people (a society) exists. The government and tax only helped us to become a civilization we are today, but in a (or one) sense a society can exist without it.

[blckhawk]

I don't think it would be good and I don't agree on implementing it. A taxless society is a society without government, without enforcers of the law, everything would be chaos. No one would follow anyone. As much as we hate taxes, we cannot avoid them and we should not. The problem arises when the people on the government has corrupted ideas. We cannot live on a perfect society since we, ourselves, the people aren't perfect. The government maintains order, we still need to use these centralized currencies and pay our part or else we would only live for ourselves.

[deisik]

~snip

In fact, there is law

And it has always been there. The codified law you implicitly refer to in your post is only a subset of a wider system of unwritten laws and traditions existing in society. So it is not the lack of law as such which would be at the root of potential problems that a society without government would likely encounter but rather the lack of law enforcement, which is part of the government (and therefore, part of the problem). In other words, as soon as we are able to solve this little hindrance, we can happily live without any government and don't sink into lawlessness and chaos soon thereafter

Hmm, all this time I was confused about what "law" really implies. I always thought that the governement "created" the "law". And tbh, I haven't thought about traditions to have innate "law", but there's always has been. AFAIK, these "unwritten laws", I reckon they're subjective to "moral conducts". I say that because if a "society" is to follow traditions, which are embedded with "unwritten laws", "moral conducts" are the only things to be considered--no need for the government (no need for law enforcement); no need for taxes

The codified law of a country typically reflects the already existing rules of "moral conduct"

If it stops doing that, and the law system is not adapted accordingly and on time, this may lead to a revolution (or a coup). That takes long years since the society doesn't change overnight. Nonetheless, these changes are objective and they are prone to accumulate over time, so they can and do have such grave consequences. But we would still need law enforcement anyway, at least as long as something else doesn't take its place

For example, the term ostracism has its roots in the Athenian democracy of Ancient Greece, where someone breaking the law would be expelled (ostracized) from Athens by the local citizenry. In the same way, if a criminal or wrongdoer could be quickly and effectively isolated from the society (to the extent of the gravity of his crime or delinquency), there would be no need for special law enforcement bodies

We can hope for that, even if it would require a quantum leap of sorts. But at least we don't need evolution for this leap anyway (read, we don't have to wait another few million years)

Agreed. (What I'm about to say is based on how I understand "being human") If ever we achieved such circumstances, do you think we are still considered as "human beings"? Because I'm so fixated on humans being violent(or kind), irrational(or rational)

I think that technically (or rather, physiologically), we would still remain same human beings as before. It is our environment that we operate within that should change dramatically for us to stop being "human beings" in the most casual sense of the word

[DaftAjax]

Hmm, all this time I was confused about what "law" really implies. I always thought that the governement "created" the "law". And tbh, I haven't thought about traditions to have innate "law", but there's always has been. AFAIK, these "unwritten laws", I reckon they're subjective to "moral conducts". I say that because if a "society" is to follow traditions, which are embedded with "unwritten laws", "moral conducts" are the only things to be considered--no need for the government (no need for law enforcement); no need for taxes

The codified law of a country typically reflects the already existing rules of "moral conduct"

If it stops doing that, and the law system is not adapted accordingly and on time, this may lead to a revolution (or a coup). That takes long years since the society doesn't change overnight. Nonetheless, these changes are objective and they are prone to accumulate over time, so they can and do have such grave consequences. But we would still need law enforcement anyway, at least as long as something else doesn't take its place

For example, the term ostracism has its roots in the Athenian democracy of Ancient Greece, where someone breaking the law would be expelled (ostracized) from Athens by the local citizenry. In the same way, if a criminal or wrongdoer could be quickly and effectively isolated from the society (to the extent of the gravity of his crime or delinquency), there would be no need for special law enforcement bodies

So, in short, until we reach such goal (society) we're still going to need "law enforcement", to make sure that "adaptation" is accordingly received. Instead of "taxless society", which the OP wants to call it, would you consider this one as "free society"? (This "society" we're discussing reminds of a movie called "The Giver", but that's for another topic)

Assuming that all members of this society are already well aware, that If we were to implement ostracism, would it still be appropriate(?), justifiable(?) whatever that person has done, in this current era?

Agreed. (What I'm about to say is based on how I understand "being human") If ever we achieved such circumstances, do you think we are still considered as "human beings"? Because I'm so fixated on humans being violent(or kind), irrational(or rational)

I think that technically (or rather, physiologically), we would still remain same human beings as before. It is our environment that we operate within that should change dramatically for us to stop being "human beings" in the most casual sense of the word

Do you mean a cyberpunk-esque environment? (I apologize in advance, I am engrossed to sci-fi genre)

[deisik]

For example, the term ostracism has its roots in the Athenian democracy of Ancient Greece, where someone breaking the law would be expelled (ostracized) from Athens by the local citizenry. In the same way, if a criminal or wrongdoer could be quickly and effectively isolated from the society (to the extent of the gravity of his crime or delinquency), there would be no need for special law enforcement bodies

So, in short, until we reach such goal (society) we're still going to need "law enforcement", to make sure that "adaptation" is accordingly received. Instead of "taxless society", which the OP wants to call it, would you consider this one as "free society"? (This "society" we're discussing reminds of a movie called "The Giver", but that's for another topic)

Assuming that all members of this society are already well aware, that If we were to implement ostracism, would it still be appropriate(?), justifiable(?) whatever that person has done, in this current era?

Humans are social beings

And not to go mad they need to connect and bond with other people. So if you did something wrong, the rest of the pack may choose to ignore you until you have redeemed your wrongdoing. Obviously, the level of such "ignorance" is going to depend on the gravity of your "crime". This is not possible right now because we have not yet reached this level of integration (but we are well on our way)
 
But there are pitfalls with this idea too as someone may be ostracized for the entirely wrong reasons. So, on the one hand, we need an extremely tightly-knit society for this to work in the first place, but then, on the other hand, for this to work properly everyone should be totally responsible for his own actions and decisions to avoid what is called the herd instinct (otherwise known as the mob effect)

I think that technically (or rather, physiologically), we would still remain same human beings as before. It is our environment that we operate within that should change dramatically for us to stop being "human beings" in the most casual sense of the word

Do you mean a cyberpunk-esque environment? (I apologize in advance, I am engrossed to sci-fi genre)

Actually, no, I don't mean anything such. To get an idea, think of the world as one large village where everyone knows everyone else on the societal level (and what he is potentially up to). This doesn't mean losing personal privacy, though. It should probably be valued and maintained even higher and stricter than ever in history

[DaftAjax]

~snip

This is not possible right now because we have not yet reached this level of integration (but we are well on our way)
 
But there are pitfalls with this idea too as someone may be ostracized for the entirely wrong reasons. So, on the one hand, we need an extremely tightly-knit society for this to work in the first place, but then, on the other hand, for this to work properly everyone should be totally responsible for his own actions and decisions to avoid what is called the herd instinct (otherwise known as the mob effect)

TBH, it could happen right now, but I also think that you don't like the idea of "selection", as this suggestion would only impose people to submit in the said society. And when I think about it, this would also arise hierarchical supremacy, some would think highly of such "society", and some members would probably discriminate those who aren't. So I guess "selection" won't cut it.

Exactly, what if it's a result of false accusations--defamation. If every member "acknowledges" the responsibility of such actions/decisions (I was gonna say, 'should we include thoughts?' but I think that's getting overboard), then it could be avoided.

~snip

Actually, no, I don't mean anything such. To get an idea, think of the world as one large village where everyone knows everyone else on the societal level (and what he is potentially up to). This doesn't mean losing personal privacy, though. It should probably be valued and maintained even higher and stricter than ever in history

I see the possibility, it will surely be valued (be the first as well) in history, but doubt comes into mind, would I ever live that long to see this day?

[deisik]

Exactly, what if it's a result of false accusations--defamation. If every member "acknowledges" the responsibility of such actions/decisions (I was gonna say, 'should we include thoughts?' but I think that's getting overboard), then it could be avoided

But that's what already happens (and has been happening all this time)

People are often stigmatized and labeled for just being different from the rest of the pack, and I don't necessarily mean some difference sort of carved in stone, so to speak. You can just have an opinion somewhat different from the party line, and already be a target for communal disdain and contempt. On the other hand, if you gain support and bring in enough people, you can do the same thing against those who so foolishly chose to disrespect you

In other words, the balance is still going to be mostly the same, i.e. more power means more responsibility, but on average it will level out to what we have right now. As you can see, we can change the variables (or the limits) in pretty wide range here but without dramatically affecting the bottom line, which basically means we do not need to "enhance" the human being itself as it all revolves around environment (which we can change)

Actually, no, I don't mean anything such. To get an idea, think of the world as one large village where everyone knows everyone else on the societal level (and what he is potentially up to). This doesn't mean losing personal privacy, though. It should probably be valued and maintained even higher and stricter than ever in history

I see the possibility, it will surely be valued (be the first as well) in history, but doubt comes into mind, would I ever live that long to see this day?

It is still a difference of degree, not of kind or substance (read, it will be a gradual change)

[Aying]

I don't think it would be good and I don't agree on implementing it. A taxless society is a society without government, without enforcers of the law, everything would be chaos. No one would follow anyone. As much as we hate taxes, we cannot avoid them and we should not. The problem arises when the people on the government has corrupted ideas. We cannot live on a perfect society since we, ourselves, the people aren't perfect. The government maintains order, we still need to use these centralized currencies and pay our part or else we would only live for ourselves.

I agree with you.. taxless society won't be easy. everyone has its own freedom but with tax society its limited. without it how people will live with neutral way? Crypto society with our wanted freedom, if this implemented without any study it maybe cause any trouble. we know that this will have advantage but we didn't know yet how percentage we can get. so we need to analyze it more.

[Edraket31]

I don't think it would be good and I don't agree on implementing it. A taxless society is a society without government, without enforcers of the law, everything would be chaos. No one would follow anyone. As much as we hate taxes, we cannot avoid them and we should not. The problem arises when the people on the government has corrupted ideas. We cannot live on a perfect society since we, ourselves, the people aren't perfect. The government maintains order, we still need to use these centralized currencies and pay our part or else we would only live for ourselves.

Exactly, we don't need to implement such thing, we need to have a government and if will remove taxation then how are we going to rule the world. Without the fund that came from taxation no one would like to be a leader as we don't have fund to implement rules and make a project. Right now, what we need is to lessen the tax so that it won't be a big burden for those who are just earning small amount.

[GreenStox]

indeed at this time seems to have started to develop digital currency and there are many platforms that use payments using cash, meaning that now has begun to reduce payments using cash, all of them prefer to make payments more easily by digital currency.

[Silberman]

indeed at this time seems to have started to develop digital currency and there are many platforms that use payments using cash, meaning that now has begun to reduce payments using cash, all of them prefer to make payments more easily by digital currency.

But I think the government will impose a tax on everyone who gets money from online including from Crypto. Although later they set Crypto as one the methods of payment but they will also impose tax with it. And we as citizens who obey the law, of course we must obey it.

Governments can create laws to tax cryptocurrencies, that is correct, what they cannot do is to impose a tax on cryptocurrencies, that is precisely what it is driving them crazy, they have no way to force people to pay taxes from their activities on cryptocurrencies because they have no control of the bitcoin network and even if at some point they achieve control of the bitcoin network those that are smart will see it coming and will just move to another cryptocurrency that is not controlled by the government.

[BChydro]

Governments can create laws to tax cryptocurrencies, that is correct, what they cannot do is to impose a tax on cryptocurrencies, that is precisely what it is driving them crazy, they have no way to force people to pay taxes

Why would any government force people to pay taxes if they are not getting any profit out of it, if the concept of tax can be tweaked then all these issues will be sorted, if people are converting their bitcoin to fiat currency and if they are doing it through the proper channel then they will naturally pay the tax.

from their activities on cryptocurrencies because they have no control of the bitcoin network and even if at some point they achieve control of the bitcoin network those that are smart will see it coming and will just move to another cryptocurrency that is not controlled by the government.

No government can control the bitcoin network and hence it is a truly decentralized network and if not for bitcoin which coin you can trust .

[Lanatsa]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

People will not hesitate to pay taxes if they have surety that they are being used for the welfare of people or humanity on the whole. Most of the taxes we pay are used for security and developing war materials. We shall never ever completely trust governments in regard of taxes because all governments are led by few violent people who want common people to obey them.

It should be on balance where those taxes would be utilized which is on development and security.It will really vary on the government that would handle and managed up those funds.Yes, we cant trust them completely because there would always be corruption or misused of funds and it will really be justified most likely on countries which
do have slow progress.

Taxless society idea is somewhat a dumb one because these funds do play out a major role on a countries development and progress.
The only problem here is the governing bodies that would handle and manage these funds carefully.

[darewaller]

People will not hesitate to pay taxes if they have surety that they are being used for the welfare of people or humanity on the whole. Most of the taxes we pay are used for security and developing war materials. We shall never ever completely trust governments in regard of taxes because all governments are led by few violent people who want common people to obey them.

They might be using it for some of the interest that you stated here, but the government are still not as bad as not using it for what will benefit their citizens, if you look at developed countries like the America, people like to travel over there for tourism from their own country, and the reason why they do so is because the government is really spending money to develop their country which the citizen are enjoying.

The pride alone that it brings to the citizen is much more than enough, let us take a look at DUBAI  also, how would they have been able to build the city to that taste before they turned it to an entrepreneur country if not that they were also able to get some taxes from their citizens also to do so, so not matter what we think, it is better we pay for tax and we get some good things we can get even if they use it to build those war things sometimes, than not to pay tax.

[DaftAjax]

~snip

But that's what already happens (and has been happening all this time)

People are often stigmatized and labeled for just being different from the rest of the pack, and I don't necessarily mean some difference sort of carved in stone, so to speak. You can just have an opinion somewhat different from the party line, and already be a target for communal disdain and contempt. On the other hand, if you gain support and bring in enough people, you can do the same thing against those who so foolishly chose to disrespect you

In other words, the balance is still going to be mostly the same, i.e. more power means more responsibility, but on average it will level out to what we have right now. As you can see, we can change the variables (or the limits) in pretty wide range here but without dramatically affecting the bottom line, which basically means we do not need to "enhance" the human being itself as it all revolves around environment (which we can change)

I despise that kind of mentality. Just because the majority of people does it, doesn't mean everybody should. That's what I hate about the Media, most of their (so-called) information isn't relevant at all, I even consider it as propaganda. I apologize, it's a bit of a sidetrack there.

Right. But its gonna be hard. This is gonna be ironic, but my suggestion is to use the media (we can't deny how powerful it is). But I doubt the government would just sit idly.

~snip

It is still a difference of degree, not of kind or substance (read, it will be a gradual change)

Maybe, but in order to reach such a degree, time is still essential.

[doomistake]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

People will not hesitate to pay taxes if they have surety that they are being used for the welfare of people or humanity on the whole. Most of the taxes we pay are used for security and developing war materials. We shall never ever completely trust governments in regard of taxes because all governments are led by few violent people who want common people to obey them.

Our power is limitless as a citizen who pays taxes, we can't assure ourselves if the taxes that we are paying to the government is being use on its true purpose, it is exasperating because we want to do something about it to make it right but we can't do a thing since we are just normal citizens that is under the authority of the Government, we could shout our opinions and emotions about the taxes that are being stolen by the corrupt government official by rallying, however we can't make them to do the right thing if they are fools and trying to play being deaf.

[wxxyrqa]

I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people.  It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes.  Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant.  But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security.  Any utilities also depend on taxpayers.  Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

[DaftAjax]

Our power is limitless as a citizen who pays taxes, we can't assure ourselves if the taxes that we are paying to the government is being use on its true purpose, it is exasperating because we want to do something about it to make it right but we can't do a thing since we are just normal citizens that is under the authority of the Government, we could shout our opinions and emotions about the taxes that are being stolen by the corrupt government official by rallying, however we can't make them to do the right thing if they are fools and trying to play being deaf.

I don't agree to what you said that we cannot do anything about it. We can really do something to the government officials to avoid experiencing the same thing from corrupt officials and that is to not vote them in the next election. It is us who put them on their position and for the next voting, we should be wise and just vote the candidates that are responsible enough to get the position and that is how we are going to make sure that everything will be alright.

I don't think that's going to be that simple. I would argue/doubt that other citizens will agree to you, just because you said something. Don't forget that politicians are not the only corrupt, sometimes (most of the time) the citizens are the ones who corrupt themselves by voting a corrupt candidate in exchange for money. How ironic isn't it? The change you seek doesn't have to be by the government or the officials, but by citizens, like it or not we're half responsible on this one.

[Bustart]

Our power is limitless as a citizen who pays taxes, we can't assure ourselves if the taxes that we are paying to the government is being use on its true purpose, it is exasperating because we want to do something about it to make it right but we can't do a thing since we are just normal citizens that is under the authority of the Government, we could shout our opinions and emotions about the taxes that are being stolen by the corrupt government official by rallying, however we can't make them to do the right thing if they are fools and trying to play being deaf.

I don't agree to what you said that we cannot do anything about it. We can really do something to the government officials to avoid experiencing the same thing from corrupt officials and that is to not vote them in the next election. It is us who put them on their position and for the next voting, we should be wise and just vote the candidates that are responsible enough to get the position and that is how we are going to make sure that everything will be alright.

I don't think that's going to be that simple. I would argue/doubt that other citizens will agree to you, just because you said something. Don't forget that politicians are not the only corrupt, sometimes (most of the time) the citizens are the ones who corrupt themselves by voting a corrupt candidate in exchange for money. How ironic isn't it? The change you seek doesn't have to be by the government or the officials, but by citizens, like it or not we're half responsible on this one.

But that's for sure politician has the desire to steal people's money, and if taxless society would benefit this platform it would bring a lot of opportunity. Government funds will only be used for basic commodities like implementing taxes on local purchased goods, and not the hard earnings of the individuals

[DaftAjax]

But that's for sure politician has the desire to steal people's money, and if taxless society would benefit this platform it would bring a lot of opportunity.

You could say that. But the government is dependent on tax. All of their operations, services provided are being funded by the tax. That's why I would argue that citizens should be the ones to change. Only then, righteous people are to be elected/appointed. We can't really do anything about corrupt politicians, the government themselves deal with them.

Government funds will only be used for basic commodities like implementing taxes on local purchased goods, and not the hard earnings of the individuals

What are you talking about? The government funds came from tax, if there's no tax, the government will not move. They cannot provide services, no more public hospitals, public schools, public transportation, etc. they also cannot provide maintenance and order. It will affect the economy horribly as well.

[Kambal2000]

I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people.  It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes.  Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant.  But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security.  Any utilities also depend on taxpayers.  Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

Here in our country, we do have some salary bracket in paying taxes, those who are earning minimum salary are not required to pay income taxes, and many more, the bad thing is that seems like those who are earning higher don't have much take out money since they are oblige to pay high tax, so for me, it is not fair at all. Still, in the end we need to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole nation.

[jakoylantern]

I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people.  It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes.  Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant.  But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security.  Any utilities also depend on taxpayers.  Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

Here in our country, we do have some salary bracket in paying taxes, those who are earning minimum salary are not required to pay income taxes, and many more, the bad thing is that seems like those who are earning higher don't have much take out money since they are oblige to pay high tax, so for me, it is not fair at all. Still, in the end we need to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole nation.

For me, it's fair because we have a minimum salary wage, and if you are in the minimum wage and paying almost the same amount of income taxes to those ppl that have above that minimum salary grade ( 20k up), it's quite an unfair right. The government conducts the study and the reason why those ppl are not required to pay some income taxes anymore because the minimum salary wage that there are earning is just sufficient to there daily bills/ cost of living. Take note that your salary wage is depending on what salary grade you are, and also, we have provincial rates and national rates.

[bitzizzix]

In my opinion, the government policy to provide tax to those who meet the requirements is reasonable, because workers who have a minimum wage are required to pay taxes according to the salary received as a certain percentage and tax to facilitate our needs such as distribution of transportation facilities, health, social sector, operational costs of the state apparatus or other services for the benefit of the state and society.
and those who don't have jobs don't need to be taxed, because they don't have income, so I think community tax is important because it comes from the community and for the community.

[nasipadang]

In my opinion it will not work fully, tax is the biggest contributor in the country's economic order. In the ideas that you convey, it feels very complicated. First we are in a world where there are leaders in several regions, your idea is good for areas where the country's resources are abundant, taxes are the biggest source of problems for them. Besides, I'm not sure we can use inflationary the way you say.

[SummerBliss]

We cannot have tax free society which is for sure because tax are basis of every economic system and binds each other and its absence social welfare will be vanished and people will not have to pay for it.Those who earn have a to pay a part of it to the government as they utilize facilities provided to them.We cannot evade the biggest revenue earning source of governmemt.

[Sithara007]

What are you talking about? The government funds came from tax, if there's no tax, the government will not move. They cannot provide services, no more public hospitals, public schools, public transportation, etc. they also cannot provide maintenance and order. It will affect the economy horribly as well.

Why do the government need to provide free education and healthcare? Here in India, hardly anyone from the middle class depends on the government hospitals and schools (because the quality is so horrible). Those who can afford, always go for private healthcare and education. And these are the people who pay the taxes to the government without any break.

I am not for the abolishment of tax. But taxes should be kept at a tolerable limit. Here in India, those at the highest tax slab pays almost 42% of their income as tax. On top of that, there are indirect taxes on all goods and services ranging from 5% to 28%. And on top of all these, there is excise duty, capital gains tax and dozens of other types of taxes.

[canovan25]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

I dont know, maybe someone talked this phrase, but I think, its will not work. Why? Yes, im suported idea separate money for change and money for preserving. But neither intelligence(nature, synthetic) not be a control money supply so that its a ideal. Its unreal. But money for change may has a inflation rate a 100% or biggest. Total supply of money for change dont have reason for control. But money for preserving... If people has a 21 miillion btc, 84 ltc and other. And I receive ukrainian gryvnia equivalent 5 btc. I want a change this money. But people dont want a change. And I change price btc for buying(price growth). And after month, I will want buy bitcoin yet. Yet growth price.

[canovan25]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

Country can exist without taxes. Its really. But if you dont have a income, you dont have a comsumption. If you dont have a taxes, you dont have a goverment programs for free education for children and teenagers, medicine, dont have costs for build road, bridge and other. Seniorage income - its a very bed invention people. Who use this method - please, burn in hell. We support a currency with fix supply (fix on GDP, maybe).

[canovan25]

In my opinion, the government policy to provide tax to those who meet the requirements is reasonable, because workers who have a minimum wage are required to pay taxes according to the salary received as a certain percentage and tax to facilitate our needs such as distribution of transportation facilities, health, social sector, operational costs of the state apparatus or other services for the benefit of the state and society.
and those who don't have jobs don't need to be taxed, because they don't have income, so I think community tax is important because it comes from the community and for the community.

Correct, but the complaints of the most of us are the broken promises of the corrupt politicians who are stealing the taxes we've been paying and expecting to be use on those field that you have mentioned earlier, making people to not trust them and thinking that paying taxes is not worth it because of that. We can't change their mindset because they are already tired of it and want a change for good

I think corrupt politicans is sh*t centalised system. In 21 centure people has a synthetic mind, it can a regulate processes in country. Taxes its a root of problems, because taxes = money and free money its a opiate.

[doomistake]

Our economy would definitely die without taxes. Honestly, it's really a burden for most of us to pay taxes but we can't just eliminate it for our own good. Our taxes are allocated in a lot of departments which would benefit the economy and society. It's a burden yet a part of the circulation of the economic needs so we got no choice but to be responsible to do it as our duties. Everything must be put into balance, the taxes, the printing of money and the role of cryptocurrency.

A country can't survive without having this, Taxes are the life of the country it's need to pay your obligations so the government can act and perform things that's needed around their jurisdictions. Implemented taxes is design to returned the favor to the citizens by providing the needs of the entire communities. Without collecting this obligations we also will not see any improvements from the society.

I strongly agree that taxes is very important in a country because it is a contribution of every citizen in their country. The reason why we pay taxes to our government because it provides the needs of every citizen in their country which they can also use it to build establishments like public schools, hospitals, highways, centers and many more, that is why without paying taxes it will be difficult for us to build such establishment and improve a certain country. People just don't want to pay taxes due to corruption that they don't trust their government that they will use it for good.

It is truly important, taxes are not only used for the development of the country itself, but also to fund new discovery and upgrades we need in life. We have technology today because of our tax, tax is being used to buy goods and services from other country, and services from government officials/public sectors. If tax does not exist, a county won't be called a country anymore.

People will not hesitate to pay taxes if they have surety that they are being used for the welfare of people or humanity on the whole. Most of the taxes we pay are used for security and developing war materials. We shall never ever completely trust governments in regard of taxes because all governments are led by few violent people who want common people to obey them.

Our power is limitless as a citizen who pays taxes, we can't assure ourselves if the taxes that we are paying to the government is being use on its true purpose, it is exasperating because we want to do something about it to make it right but we can't do a thing since we are just normal citizens that is under the authority of the Government, we could shout our opinions and emotions about the taxes that are being stolen by the corrupt government official by rallying, however we can't make them to do the right thing if they are fools and trying to play being deaf.

I don't agree to what you said that we cannot do anything about it. We can really do something to the government officials to avoid experiencing the same thing from corrupt officials and that is to not vote them in the next election. It is us who put them on their position and for the next voting, we should be wise and just vote the candidates that are responsible enough to get the position and that is how we are going to make sure that everything will be alright.

How I wish most of the people have the same mindset with you, but what are you going to do to those money worshiper people, who are always being blinded by the corrupt politicians to mask their fake promises, and since it is about money, they are willing to vote those corrupt politicians again, yes, there are many people who are idiots to the same mistake twice or even more, I just want you to know that.

Let's say the 30% of the population of a certain country have the same mindset as yours, do you think it will make a change if you are up against 70% of the remaining voters of a certain country, good luck for that.

[bitbunnny]

Taxless society it's utopia. I would like to know how does domene think that public interests like health and education could be financed or co-financed without taxes. Or maybe some here think that citizens don't have to contribute to anything that serves the community.
The problem is not in taxes but the way how the funds from taxes are spend, or better to say misused. So citizens needs to fight for better insight and control how their funds are spent.

[DaftAjax]

~snip

Why do the government need to provide free education and healthcare? Here in India, hardly anyone from the middle class depends on the government hospitals and schools (because the quality is so horrible). Those who can afford, always go for private healthcare and education. And these are the people who pay the taxes to the government without any break.

I am not for the abolishment of tax. But taxes should be kept at a tolerable limit. Here in India, those at the highest tax slab pays almost 42% of their income as tax. On top of that, there are indirect taxes on all goods and services ranging from 5% to 28%. And on top of all these, there is excise duty, capital gains tax and dozens of other types of taxes.

Again, another very informative reply, much appreciated.

Here in the Philippines, there are public schools that are basically free of tuition fees (besides from scholarships), this can range from High Schools to State Universities/Colleges. The government's plan was, to provide education to people who can't afford it. People who are knowledgeable, skilled, competitive--it's a long term plan actually. They believe that it could help the "economy" of the country by the next 5~10+ years. As for healthcare, here also they provide some "free" services every now and then I don't really know the details but public hospitals also provide insurances, especially for those people who can't afford a big one-time-payment, e.g. surgeries.

That's a lot of taxes; again, even I am not really familiar with the taxes here in my country but I'm pretty sure it's somewhat identical--the "items" that are taxed at least, not sure about the numbers.

[RapTarX]

I think corrupt politicans is sh*t centalised system. In 21 centure people has a synthetic mind, it can a regulate processes in country. Taxes its a root of problems, because taxes = money and free money its a opiate.

Taxes are being used in the welfare of the people. We all are consuming the benefit from paying taxes. Everyone don't pay taxes on their income but everyone pay taxes on what they are consuming. The benefits are also there. We are having roads, hospital, etc. Even on your home, numbering the house is a part of the utiliazation of the taxes.
So, in every way, we are consuming what we are paying.

[inthelongrun]

Why do the government need to provide free education and healthcare? Here in India, hardly anyone from the middle class depends on the government hospitals and schools (because the quality is so horrible). Those who can afford, always go for private healthcare and education. And these are the people who pay the taxes to the government without any break.

I am not for the abolishment of tax. But taxes should be kept at a tolerable limit. Here in India, those at the highest tax slab pays almost 42% of their income as tax. On top of that, there are indirect taxes on all goods and services ranging from 5% to 28%. And on top of all these, there is excise duty, capital gains tax and dozens of other types of taxes.

Again, another very informative reply, much appreciated.

Here in the Philippines, there are public schools that are basically free of tuition fees (besides from scholarships), this can range from High Schools to State Universities/Colleges. The government's plan was, to provide education to people who can't afford it. People who are knowledgeable, skilled, competitive--it's a long term plan actually. They believe that it could help the "economy" of the country by the next 5~10+ years. As for healthcare, here also they provide some "free" services every now and then I don't really know the details but public hospitals also provide insurances, especially for those people who can't afford a big one-time-payment, e.g. surgeries.

That's a lot of taxes; again, even I am not really familiar with the taxes here in my country but I'm pretty sure it's somewhat identical--the "items" that are taxed at least, not sure about the numbers.

Our country is still full of corrupt leaders and politicians. From the lowest level up to the highest level.

Public health care and education services may vary from places to places. Some places have good services down to the worst ones where politics matters most.

The tax system is not fair. Philippines 97% wealth is by owned by 3% of the population. Our lawmakers, officials and leaders are under the wallet of our tycoons. Our laws are not for us but for the 3%. We have high salary tax and another minimum of 12% additional tax on our goods. Purchasing our first vehicle should not be taxed this high as it is becoming a necessity, instead they should enforce this very high luxury tax the second time (or more) we buy another vehicle.

Taxless society is applicable to nations with very rich resources but with small population. But this is impossible to nations with high population with limited resources.     

[Sithara007]

Again, another very informative reply, much appreciated.

Here in the Philippines, there are public schools that are basically free of tuition fees (besides from scholarships), this can range from High Schools to State Universities/Colleges. The government's plan was, to provide education to people who can't afford it. People who are knowledgeable, skilled, competitive--it's a long term plan actually. They believe that it could help the "economy" of the country by the next 5~10+ years. As for healthcare, here also they provide some "free" services every now and then I don't really know the details but public hospitals also provide insurances, especially for those people who can't afford a big one-time-payment, e.g. surgeries.

That's a lot of taxes; again, even I am not really familiar with the taxes here in my country but I'm pretty sure it's somewhat identical--the "items" that are taxed at least, not sure about the numbers.

Well.. here in India, we have public schools that give free education, but the quality tends to be very low. In most of the cases, the teachers are not qualified enough and they are not punctual. Education levels are rising, thanks to private institutions. And for college education, some of the government institutions are good. But recently they have increased the tuition fees and now there is not much difference in the fees between government colleges and private colleges.

Another initiative launched by the government is that they are providing free mediclaim up to a certain threshold to the poor people. This means that in case of medical emergency, they can afford to go to the private hospitals rather than the poorly run government hospitals. But even then, this spending represents a small fraction of the government expenses. The majority goes to paying salaries and pension for the government employees.

[deisik]

What are you talking about? The government funds came from tax, if there's no tax, the government will not move. They cannot provide services, no more public hospitals, public schools, public transportation, etc. they also cannot provide maintenance and order. It will affect the economy horribly as well.

Why do the government need to provide free education and healthcare?

Maybe, because it pays back, eventually?

If we postulate that the government can't exist without taxes (which seems to be a widely accepted point here), it should be interested in the steady and consistent flow of this money, right? But if the government doesn't support public schools and the healthcare system, it will be shooting itself in the foot over the long run. Indeed, the law of diminishing returns is fully applicable here (as elsewhere), so you wouldn't actually expect these areas to be of top-notch quality, but it is not like the government should disengage altogether, either

[DaftAjax]

~snip

~snip

Our country is still full of corrupt leaders and politicians. From the lowest level up to the highest level.

Public health care and education services may vary from places to places. Some places have good services down to the worst ones where politics matters most.

The tax system is not fair. Philippines 97% wealth is by owned by 3% of the population. Our lawmakers, officials and leaders are under the wallet of our tycoons. Our laws are not for us but for the 3%. We have high salary tax and another minimum of 12% additional tax on our goods. Purchasing our first vehicle should not be taxed this high as it is becoming a necessity, instead they should enforce this very high luxury tax the second time (or more) we buy another vehicle.

Taxless society is applicable to nations with very rich resources but with small population. But this is impossible to nations with high population with limited resources.     

I think any Democratic type of Government has corrupt officials/politicians. Well, that is because these officials/leaders consider public schools, hospitals, etc. as "business"--their "business".

I think most of the increase of tax is because of our "past" debts--that issued by the past "few" presidents. Our economy is currently under the influence of Inflation--this is probably their "solution" for paying up these debts.

All in all, I think our country, Philippines, doesn't make good use of its people--for further development in numerous fields: technology, business, etc.  A lot of citizens would rather work abroad than here in the Philippines, though I can't really blame them as the exchange rates compare to our PHP is quite significant. Also what I don't like about citizens here is that products that are made locally are not considered as "quality-made-products", they would prefer products from other countries instead. These are just some points, now you would say that it's not that significant but the fact that people here have the mentally like that won't make this country's economy any good. Another thing is, we have so much "imports" than "exports". I can talk about a lot of issues about our country but it's just going to be repetitive, so I'm just gonna leave it at that.

Believe me, the Philippines have a lot of "resources", people just don't know how to use them, or rather people choose not to use them.

Well.. here in India, we have public schools that give free education, but the quality tends to be very low. In most of the cases, the teachers are not qualified enough and they are not punctual. Education levels are rising, thanks to private institutions. And for college education, some of the government institutions are good. But recently they have increased the tuition fees and now there is not much difference in the fees between government colleges and private colleges.

Another initiative launched by the government is that they are providing free mediclaim up to a certain threshold to the poor people. This means that in case of medical emergency, they can afford to go to the private hospitals rather than the poorly run government hospitals. But even then, this spending represents a small fraction of the government expenses. The majority goes to paying salaries and pension for the government employees.

I apologize, I didn't get into the details about what I said in my last reply--and it turned out to be very positive than expected. Well, I just want to point out the good things about it, rather than its problems. But after reading your statement, I can conclude that our countries situations are pretty similar. Yes, I've said good things about it, but mostly the things that you've mentioned are the flaws of our country as well. Huh, curious, what a coincidence (*cough* capitalism *cough).

[Silberman]

I don't agree to what you said that we cannot do anything about it. We can really do something to the government officials to avoid experiencing the same thing from corrupt officials and that is to not vote them in the next election. It is us who put them on their position and for the next voting, we should be wise and just vote the candidates that are responsible enough to get the position and that is how we are going to make sure that everything will be alright.

And what are you going to do when all the candidates for which you can vote are corrupt? Corruption among government officials is incredibly common, this is why there is a very common belief that there is no politician that is honest, whatever change that you want to achieve in your life or in the life of others that requires the participation of the government will probably never happen or it will take a lot of time so it is better to try to change things with your own means.

[craZyLovE0916]

paxillus societies a tricky subject because the government needs to raise funds somehow. However, maybe it would be possible if our government were talented with money management.

[DaftAjax]

paxillus societies a tricky subject because the government needs to raise funds somehow. However, maybe it would be possible if our government were talented with money management.

*chuckle*, they are "talented" indeed.

They are so "talented" they could money launder without anyone finding out (initially of course--pre-investigation). They are so "talented" some would call, extra money, that is designated into a supposedly "government projects" would end up in their pockets. I could give you a lot of legitimate examples of how "talented" they are, but that would only bore you. I am not saying that there is no one in the government who uses the funds the way it should be, but as long as officials/politicians like these exist(?) people will always generalize them.

[Clement Kaliyar]

Taxless society it's utopia. I would like to know how does domene think that public interests like health and education could be financed or co-financed without taxes.

There are places that have not taxes and if you look at the citizens of Dubai they do not have to pay any tax and still they will give subsidy to their citizens and even for the expats population there was no taxation, so it is possible to be a tax less society if the government is making money from other resources.

The problem is not in taxes but the way how the funds from taxes are spend, or better to say misused. So citizens needs to fight for better insight and control how their funds are spent.

It is difficult to understand what a government is doing with all the funds and they are not public nor the government wants that to be a public knowledge and if someone wants to raise that matter then all the political parties will join hands to make everything secret.

[Triffin]

I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people.  It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes.  Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant.  But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security.  Any utilities also depend on taxpayers.  Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

Here in our country, we do have some salary bracket in paying taxes, those who are earning minimum salary are not required to pay income taxes, and many more, the bad thing is that seems like those who are earning higher don't have much take out money since they are oblige to pay high tax, so for me, it is not fair at all. Still, in the end we need to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole nation.

For me, it's fair because we have a minimum salary wage, and if you are in the minimum wage and paying almost the same amount of income taxes to those ppl that have above that minimum salary grade ( 20k up), it's quite an unfair right. The government conducts the study and the reason why those ppl are not required to pay some income taxes anymore because the minimum salary wage that there are earning is just sufficient to there daily bills/ cost of living. Take note that your salary wage is depending on what salary grade you are, and also, we have provincial rates and national rates.

Taxes are good for common people as far as that money gets utilized for facilitating them with education, health and shelter stuff but what for those country where government does not spend the taxation money for the betterment of public. This is one of the reason why I am in favor of bitcoin because that way no one can really control my money and I do not have to pay any tax because no one really knows how much of it I have. Anonymity.

Same reason actually I have for supporting the concept of tax free society because there are majority of the countries where rich people don’t pay due taxes and the whole burden falls on the shoulders of job holders who are already making both ends meet hardly. They still pay taxes which are then not used on them or for them. So it’s better to boycott taxes. 

[desticy]

Money rules the world - it's true. Values of private property and private accumulation.
To change the world, you first need to change the values of people, they must live for each other and not for themselves,
in this case the course will be dominated by the development of a society that does not know diseases, hunger, local crises associated with local culture, and so on.

[DaftAjax]

Same reason actually I have for supporting the concept of tax free society because there are majority of the countries where rich people don’t pay due taxes and the whole burden falls on the shoulders of job holders who are already making both ends meet hardly. They still pay taxes which are then not used on them or for them. So it’s better to boycott taxes. 

Not paying taxes is illegal, a crime even. So are you saying that all "rich" people do such a thing? Do you really think they don't pay their taxes because they're still "rich". They are "rich" because they know how to manage their money, and how to earn more money. That's their mentality, they don't have the same mentality as an ordinary citizen. I know that ordinary citizens are the majority of a country's population, but "rich" people are the ones who bring business/companies that help the economy and provide jobs/work. Do you really think the government is the one who provides the jobs?

Money rules the world - it's true. Values of private property and private accumulation.
To change the world, you first need to change the values of people, they must live for each other and not for themselves,
in this case the course will be dominated by the development of a society that does not know diseases, hunger, local crises associated with local culture, and so on.

I want to believe you, and I also want that to happen. BUT that's the very definition of naivety. Believe me, many people already tried, they tried so hard but to no avail. I know people are still trying. But the thing is, you can't really impose your ideals to everyone, just because you think that way doesn't mean everyone should, or rather everyone should are convinced on the way you think, just because you said so.

[deisik]

Same reason actually I have for supporting the concept of tax free society because there are majority of the countries where rich people don’t pay due taxes and the whole burden falls on the shoulders of job holders who are already making both ends meet hardly. They still pay taxes which are then not used on them or for them. So it’s better to boycott taxes. 

Not paying taxes is illegal, a crime even. So are you saying that all "rich" people do such a thing? Do you really think they don't pay their taxes because they're still "rich". They are "rich" because they know how to manage their money, and how to earn more money

He probably meant something different

Rich people can hire expert tax lawyers so that they can avoid paying taxes in a quasilegal way by exploiting loopholes their lawyers find. Obviously, common people have neither experience (and time) to do that on their own nor money to hire someone who can do that on their behalf. In other words, rich people have way more options in this regard, and given their mentality (as you correctly point out), they won't have any scruples about using these options and tactics to their advantage whenever possible

That's their mentality, they don't have the same mentality as an ordinary citizen

Let's call it a capitalist mentality

[STT]

Do you really think they don't pay their taxes because they're still "rich". They are "rich" because they know how to manage their money,

The point is that taxes hurt the poorest people most and for a variety of reasons.   Somebody rich can place their money anywhere in the world quite easily.    Just considering the scale of being rich means you can in many cases literally hire a manager, an accountant and various other measures to best address any tax regime.   The poorest people can barely afford to pay the bus driver for the trip nevermind have a proper capital management system.    High taxes dont work, if they at any point attempt to throw the majority of tax on the richest people then it will also fail as the richest are most able to divert capital over seas or to whatever method best avoids the tax.   
  I'd hope its not too far for people to realise taxes are always going to be paid off by the majority, almost nothing can stop that being the case.     Attempts at extreme confiscation of capital also fail and deprive a country of its most talented labour and so on.   The best economy is a competitive market place available to all, at least people are given the opportunity to thrive.

[huige007]

I think that everyone deep down understands the importance of taxes for the country, but he will always resist this, because there are a lot of points why I like taxes to many people.  It can be either small salaries, or maybe too much taxes.  Someone can be very greedy and therefore taxes are indignant.  But we must understand that the state exists not only thanks to state enterprises, but also due to taxes, through which there are social guarantees in the country, there are various structures, including medicine, the police, and security.  Any utilities also depend on taxpayers.  Therefore, before expressing our dissatisfaction with taxes, we can think about the real existence of our country.

Here in our country, we do have some salary bracket in paying taxes, those who are earning minimum salary are not required to pay income taxes, and many more, the bad thing is that seems like those who are earning higher don't have much take out money since they are oblige to pay high tax, so for me, it is not fair at all. Still, in the end we need to pay taxes for the benefit of the whole nation.

For me, it's fair because we have a minimum salary wage, and if you are in the minimum wage and paying almost the same amount of income taxes to those ppl that have above that minimum salary grade ( 20k up), it's quite an unfair right. The government conducts the study and the reason why those ppl are not required to pay some income taxes anymore because the minimum salary wage that there are earning is just sufficient to there daily bills/ cost of living. Take note that your salary wage is depending on what salary grade you are, and also, we have provincial rates and national rates.

Taxes are good for common people as far as that money gets utilized for facilitating them with education, health and shelter stuff but what for those country where government does not spend the taxation money for the betterment of public. This is one of the reason why I am in favor of bitcoin because that way no one can really control my money and I do not have to pay any tax because no one really knows how much of it I have. Anonymity.

Same reason actually I have for supporting the concept of tax free society because there are majority of the countries where rich people don’t pay due taxes and the whole burden falls on the shoulders of job holders who are already making both ends meet hardly. They still pay taxes which are then not used on them or for them. So it’s better to boycott taxes. 

I guess this is the time when working class shall hold government accountable for all the useless taxes that are imposed on them and are not even used for their welfare. I am happy that crypto currencies are decentralized and governments are unable to put taxes on them. Bitcoin is setting people free from this headache so soon whole world be supporting it.

[DaftAjax]

Not paying taxes is illegal, a crime even. So are you saying that all "rich" people do such a thing? Do you really think they don't pay their taxes because they're still "rich". They are "rich" because they know how to manage their money, and how to earn more money

He probably meant something different

Rich people can hire expert tax lawyers so that they can avoid paying taxes in a quasilegal way by exploiting loopholes their lawyers find. Obviously, common people have neither experience (and time) to do that on their own nor money to hire someone who can do that on their behalf. In other words, rich people have way more options in this regard, and given their mentality (as you correctly point out), they won't have any scruples about using these options and tactics to their advantage whenever possible

Do you really think they don't pay their taxes because they're still "rich". They are "rich" because they know how to manage their money,

The point is that taxes hurt the poorest people most and for a variety of reasons.   Somebody rich can place their money anywhere in the world quite easily.    Just considering the scale of being rich means you can in many cases literally hire a manager, an accountant and various other measures to best address any tax regime.   The poorest people can barely afford to pay the bus driver for the trip nevermind have a proper capital management system.    High taxes dont work, if they at any point attempt to throw the majority of tax on the richest people then it will also fail as the richest are most able to divert capital over seas or to whatever method best avoids the tax.   
  I'd hope its not too far for people to realise taxes are always going to be paid off by the majority, almost nothing can stop that being the case.     Attempts at extreme confiscation of capital also fail and deprive a country of its most talented labour and so on.   The best economy is a competitive market place available to all, at least people are given the opportunity to thrive.

I appreciate the thorough explanation from both of you. And I also apologize if my statement is quite misleading. Because that is also what I really meant when I said, 'They are "rich" because they know how to manage their money'. But what I really want to point out is that, however rich people "dodge" tax by hiring tax-lawyers, managers and such--in the end they will still pay taxes, but as both of you mention, they will find a way just to reduce the amount they ought to pay, which is, the majority of people would say is unjust/unfair.

That's their mentality, they don't have the same mentality as an ordinary citizen

Let's call it a capitalist mentality

I guess that's the right term.

[Google+]

I think the idea of no tax is very lucrative for all countries because people do not need to give money anymore to the government and do not need to pay wealth tax, but I think if the country does not have tax payments then the country cannot develop, usually money from taxes will be used for development the country.

[deisik]

But what I really want to point out is that, however rich people "dodge" tax by hiring tax-lawyers, managers and such--in the end they will still pay taxes, but as both of you mention, they will find a way just to reduce the amount they ought to pay, which is, the majority of people would say is unjust/unfair

In today's world this "reduction" can easily turn negative

And you heard it right, and I'm not kidding. First of all, global corporations can easily earn money in one place and pay taxes in a completely different one, different as in another country on a different continent. See where I'm getting at? In this fashion, the reduction is not about paying less as it is more about not paying anything at all in the given jurisdiction. The financial papers will only show losses according to local law

Further, this approach lets you not only evade taxes but actually ask for subsidies from the local government as you can hide your real income in another jurisdiction and show losses in the one where you find it instrumental for your business. This is a real thing and an annoying problem with multinational corporations. As you can see, they can easily turn from cash cows into vampires by sucking blood from national economies

[BonfireBob]

The first thing I thought about when saw this topic, is that no taxes means more money, yes, maybe, but from the other side, there will be no social wellness anywhere. In job, at the supermarket, at any place you will have no social wellness. If now you get hurt and/or need to go to a doctor you can do that very easily without paying most of the times because we have many free offers from the government. When paying taxes you kind of pay for your social and all the other kinds of wellness. Of course, when taxes are too high it's not good too.

[Silberman]

Money rules the world - it's true. Values of private property and private accumulation.
To change the world, you first need to change the values of people, they must live for each other and not for themselves,
in this case the course will be dominated by the development of a society that does not know diseases, hunger, local crises associated with local culture, and so on.

You cannot change human nature, it may seem easy to try to make people more charitable and to worry about others instead of themselves, but that is never going to work, everyone can see the benefits of working hard in order to obtain some money so you could spend it in whatever you want, but very few can see the benefits of working hard getting that money and then giving that money to someone else, this is one of the reasons of why communism will never work.

[tambok]

Money rules the world - it's true. Values of private property and private accumulation.
To change the world, you first need to change the values of people, they must live for each other and not for themselves,
in this case the course will be dominated by the development of a society that does not know diseases, hunger, local crises associated with local culture, and so on.

You cannot change human nature, it may seem easy to try to make people more charitable and to worry about others instead of themselves, but that is never going to work, everyone can see the benefits of working hard in order to obtain some money so you could spend it in whatever you want, but very few can see the benefits of working hard getting that money and then giving that money to someone else, this is one of the reasons of why communism will never work.

I agree, you should think of yourself first before trying to help others, I have learned from some financial experts stating that, it is okay to help people, but don't help them by giving them fish, but by giving them tools that they will use to fish. Also based on my experience, when I do have nothing at all, and no one helps me, that's my motivation to work harder and not to just seek help from other people.

[error08]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

[DaftAjax]

But what I really want to point out is that, however rich people "dodge" tax by hiring tax-lawyers, managers and such--in the end they will still pay taxes, but as both of you mention, they will find a way just to reduce the amount they ought to pay, which is, the majority of people would say is unjust/unfair

In today's world this "reduction" can easily turn negative

And you heard it right, and I'm not kidding. First of all, global corporations can easily earn money in one place and pay taxes in a completely different one, different as in another country on a different continent. See where I'm getting at? In this fashion, the reduction is not about paying less as it is more about not paying anything at all in the given jurisdiction. The financial papers will only show losses according to local law

Further, this approach lets you not only evade taxes but actually ask for subsidies from the local government as you can hide your real income in another jurisdiction and show losses in the one where you find it instrumental for your business. This is a real thing and an annoying problem with multinational corporations. As you can see, they can easily turn from cash cows into vampires by sucking blood from national economies

I already know this was possible but didn't know that it is actually happening and that it exceeds what I've always known. In the end, tax laws weren't fair at all(well, I guess it's not fair from the very beginning). I actually thought that corporations/companies contribute much more to the economy(at least for international corporations/companies), I guess they only contribute what their products/services could provide. But isn't this also an example of money-laundering(with respect to tax that is)?

[deisik]

But what I really want to point out is that, however rich people "dodge" tax by hiring tax-lawyers, managers and such--in the end they will still pay taxes, but as both of you mention, they will find a way just to reduce the amount they ought to pay, which is, the majority of people would say is unjust/unfair

In today's world this "reduction" can easily turn negative

And you heard it right, and I'm not kidding. First of all, global corporations can easily earn money in one place and pay taxes in a completely different one, different as in another country on a different continent. See where I'm getting at? In this fashion, the reduction is not about paying less as it is more about not paying anything at all in the given jurisdiction. The financial papers will only show losses according to local law

Further, this approach lets you not only evade taxes but actually ask for subsidies from the local government as you can hide your real income in another jurisdiction and show losses in the one where you find it instrumental for your business. This is a real thing and an annoying problem with multinational corporations. As you can see, they can easily turn from cash cows into vampires by sucking blood from national economies

I already know this was possible but didn't know that it is actually happening and that it exceeds what I've always known. In the end, tax laws weren't fair at all(well, I guess it's not fair from the very beginning). I actually thought that corporations/companies contribute much more to the economy(at least for international corporations/companies), I guess they only contribute what their products/services could provide. But isn't this also an example of money-laundering(with respect to tax that is)?

Well, technically, they don't do anything illegal

At least, not until they get caught and found guilty in the court of law. These corporations (for example, so-called Big Pharma) can hire the best tax lawyers (or just best lawyers in general), and since it is assumed (and rightfully, I must add) that governments are not very efficient and effective overall (apart from being hostile to each other, which severely complicates things for them), we can plausibly expect the corporations to be a few steps ahead of any effort to bring them to justice, so to speak. If they can change whole governments in some countries, the question of money laundering becomes kinda irrelevant since who is to define what is money laundering and what is not?

[xSkylarx]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

I think having no tax is a problem, taxes are being used and spent in many ways, such as making an infrastructure, providing free education and healthcare and many more, if tax will be remove I dont know where the funds will might be get. Tax is essential for a country development. Laws can legal cryptocurrency but I think with tax also, government funds are based on how much they get in taxes.

[meliodas]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

I think having no tax is a problem, taxes are being used and spent in many ways, such as making an infrastructure, providing free education and healthcare and many more, if tax will be remove I dont know where the funds will might be get. Tax is essential for a country development. Laws can legal cryptocurrency but I think with tax also, government funds are based on how much they get in taxes.

I agree. Tax is a must in every country because that is how one country will progress overtime. It is true that there will be also a tax for the cryptocurrency and we are just waiting for the regulation of the government. If there is no tax then we will be left behind by the advancement of the technology and our world will be still be poor.

[bitzizzix]

The only problem with the idea is there is no way of any government in the world that could rely on cryptocurrency which they do not control like mentioned. For them, it's better to create their own digital cryptocurrency or digital fiat currency on the blockchain.

I think having no tax is a problem, taxes are being used and spent in many ways, such as making an infrastructure, providing free education and healthcare and many more, if tax will be remove I dont know where the funds will might be get. Tax is essential for a country development. Laws can legal cryptocurrency but I think with tax also, government funds are based on how much they get in taxes.

I agree. Tax is a must in every country because that is how one country will progress overtime. It is true that there will be also a tax for the cryptocurrency and we are just waiting for the regulation of the government. If there is no tax then we will be left behind by the advancement of the technology and our world will be still be poor.

In my opinion tax is a mandatory right and for the benefit of the people and for the progress of the country,
and if Cryptocurrency will be taxed it must be in a legalized position.
and I will obediently pay taxes because everything aims at the progress and interests of the country so that it develops well in technology.

[Eugenar]

I think the idea of no tax is very lucrative for all countries because people do not need to give money anymore to the government and do not need to pay wealth tax, but I think if the country does not have tax payments then the country cannot develop, usually money from taxes will be used for development the country.

Basically, what is needed is a precise and regulated tax calculation, most of the time, we think of cryptocurrency and taxes, it is somehow difficult to have our products be sell with tax, but if we can develop an automatic tax calculating system, bitcoin and other cryptocurrency can be attached with tax, so government can still operate with funds needed to create and implement projects that the sole purpose is for the betterment of our selves and community.

[DaftAjax]

<....>

<....>

<....>

Well, technically, they don't do anything illegal

At least, not until they get caught and found guilty in the court of law. These corporations (for example, so-called Big Pharma) can hire the best tax lawyers (or just best lawyers in general), and since it is assumed (and rightfully, I must add) that governments are not very efficient and effective overall (apart from being hostile to each other, which severely complicates things for them), we can plausibly expect the corporations to be a few steps ahead of any effort to bring them to justice, so to speak. If they can change whole governments in some countries, the question of money laundering becomes kinda irrelevant since who is to define what is money laundering and what is not?

So who is to blame, the government? the corporations? or the law?

How ironic that just because lawyers know how the laws work on different countries, they can easily twist the law between their fingers, and to make it worse, it's their profession-- a lawyer. I just can't believe that this is happening right now. I understand that they want to make money (revenue) and make their investors smile and all that jazz, but isn't that just going to worsen the economy of a country (assuming all corporations actually do this)? Sure they provide jobs/services/products but if their entire goal is to just keep on making more money--that's just straight up capitalism.

[deisik]

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Well, technically, they don't do anything illegal

At least, not until they get caught and found guilty in the court of law. These corporations (for example, so-called Big Pharma) can hire the best tax lawyers (or just best lawyers in general), and since it is assumed (and rightfully, I must add) that governments are not very efficient and effective overall (apart from being hostile to each other, which severely complicates things for them), we can plausibly expect the corporations to be a few steps ahead of any effort to bring them to justice, so to speak. If they can change whole governments in some countries, the question of money laundering becomes kinda irrelevant since who is to define what is money laundering and what is not?

So who is to blame, the government? the corporations? or the law?

Let's just admit that it is a very complex and hard to tackle problem. To keep things more specific, let's consider a real-life example which repeats itself in many countries with astonishing regularity. A big multinational retail corporation operating a chain of hypermarkets (think Walmart here) comes to town one day. Since it is huge, has a lot of suppliers in different parts of the world and highly efficient logistics, it can make prices very cheap and still book profits for itself (not even speaking of deliberate dumping)

Obviously, the local stores are quickly forced out of business, and people living in this town who were somehow involved in these small businesses, that is almost every adult there, are now jobless. So whose fault is this? People want to buy better and cheaper goods, which is understandable. But by doing that they are effectively destroying their local economy since the money that the Walmart-like retailer receives goes elsewhere and doesn't get reinvested locally simply because it makes no economic sense

And it works in essentially the same way on a country as well as international level

[BChydro]

In my opinion tax is a mandatory right and for the benefit of the people and for the progress of the country

What happens if it is a corrupted country and why is there much progress in third world countries, people not paying their taxes  .

and if Cryptocurrency will be taxed it must be in a legalized position.

Even if it is not legalized you have to pay your taxes if you are earning the profits according to the rule of the land.

and I will obediently pay taxes because everything aims at the progress and interests of the country so that it develops well in technology.

I highly doubt that all the tax money is used for the progress and development of a country. The amount of money wasted in warfare is far higher and the debt the nation holds because of these will be higher than serving and uplifting every citizen and it is the same everywhere.

[DaftAjax]

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And it works in essentially the same way on a country as well as international level

So everyone has a part on it, I guess we can't point fingers on just one. As you said, it is a very complex problem to tackle--indeed it is, yet to even have a solution.

Well, guess what, a somewhat the same situation happened here in my area. A company (so-called PureGold, a large grocery store) just had a branch here like 2 years ago. But what they did was, the building they are currently on was the same building that a local grocery store was occupied. They "bought" the place. That local store doesn't really have expensive items, in fact, a lot of locals buy there. But when this company bought the place it was renovated (to their company design), then they had an "opening" of some sort and had lots of discounts. The store was very alive, the items were even cheaper (even after the discount event), heck even people from other towns go there now. And as you said, since they're so big, they have a lot of suppliers and a very efficient logistics. So now, other grocery stores are a bit endangered, well they still have (old) customers but newcomers(?), I don't think so. It was like, it's the only large grocery store in the area.

AFAIK, isn't competition good for the economy?

[deisik]

Well, guess what, a somewhat the same situation happened here in my area

It's not surprising at all

I've seen that same situation repeat itself countless times in different places. Small stores and shops can only survive if they can offer some unique product or service. In my place many such stores had been closed a few years ago after big retailers showed up in the area

And it is not just about groceries as almost every industry gets severely affected in this manner. It is the same not only on the local level, but on the regional and national levels as well as previously successful companies are now unable to compete with multinational corporations going to smaller regional markets

AFAIK, isn't competition good for the economy?

I wouldn't call that competition as to me it looks more the "slaughter of the innocents" and weeding out all possible competition (what monopolies habitually do all the time)

[DaftAjax]

Small stores and shops can only survive if they can offer some unique product or service.

That's a thing with our society now, they feed mostly on what is unique--new things. But it does not last long as after months or years they move on to other things, well, (normally) people will never be satisfied. Another thing is that whenever bigger companies saw something unique that sells very well they will do anything in their power to buy it or rather take over its ownership.

And it is not just about groceries as almost every industry gets severely affected in this manner. It is the same not only on the local level, but on the regional and national levels as well as previously successful companies are now unable to compete with multinational corporations going to smaller regional markets

I've seen something like this happen. Their solution is either focus only on specific areas and shutdown other branches or spread as much as possible.

I wouldn't call that competition as to me it looks more the "slaughter of the innocents" and weeding out all possible competition (what monopolies habitually do all the time)

A monopoly doesn't help anyone except for themselves.

[tadpole_bitfrog]

How much humanity is developing, however, not a single state has been able to do without taxes. Taxes, as always, are sorely lacking to cover social needs and this periodically leads to shocks in almost all states.
The proposed measures are very difficult to understand, but in any case, they are not suitable for building a tax-free society. The advent of cryptocurrency will also not be able to solve this problem. Taxes are necessary in any society.

I agree with your point of view that no society can exist without taxes, which is very unlikely, because it will make it difficult for the government to solve domestic problems, cryptocurrencies up to this point, it is growing and expanding but it still cannot replace flat money or create a tax-free society.

[tambok]

How much humanity is developing, however, not a single state has been able to do without taxes. Taxes, as always, are sorely lacking to cover social needs and this periodically leads to shocks in almost all states.
The proposed measures are very difficult to understand, but in any case, they are not suitable for building a tax-free society. The advent of cryptocurrency will also not be able to solve this problem. Taxes are necessary in any society.

I agree with your point of view that no society can exist without taxes, which is very unlikely, because it will make it difficult for the government to solve domestic problems, cryptocurrencies up to this point, it is growing and expanding but it still cannot replace flat money or create a tax-free society.

I am not in favor with tax that they are imposing too expensive tax but I understand that we need it. We need tax in our government for us to be able to secure our country, health, and to have unity, if there is no tax, how can we be able to pay government officials, if there is no official appointed then we will have a poor country and we'll have financial crisis.

[mdgabrielzim]

I think the idea is valid but in my view taxes are a necessary evil for the welfare of society. Unfortunately today a lot of mismanagement and amateurism in managing this money.

[inanilujimi]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

[Duzter]

I think the idea is valid but in my view taxes are a necessary evil for the welfare of society. Unfortunately today a lot of mismanagement and amateurism in managing this money.

What's been mentioned is all about the need and the errors that cause the taxation go entirely wrong and not beneficial to the common people. Very few countries does the taxation in a perfect way keeping the common people in mind. Through our blockchain technology the taxless society idea can be made to be effective and functional. For this the benefits needs to be directly send to the people eliminating the intermediary governments who just eat up everything.

[DaftAjax]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

I don't know where are you getting on about this. Tax is the spirit of a country? Are you serious? People are the spirit of a country, don't forget that.

And yes it is (supposedly) being used to facilitate, but not our activities and our daily lives entirely, even without facilitation, we can go on about our day.

What's been mentioned is all about the need and the errors that cause the taxation go entirely wrong and not beneficial to the common people. Very few countries does the taxation in a perfect way keeping the common people in mind.

Nope! Tax is mandatory, that is why you think that it is the "perfect" way to keep the common people in mind, though there are people who get away with it, by means of manipulating laws and such, by their managers and lawyers that is, and it's completely "legal" (believe it or not).

[sapnu]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

[STT]

tax is the spirit of a country,

Honest business, production and enterprise is the spirit of a country.   The money paid to the paperwork of various laws that charge whether you did anything incorrect or not, this is not productive or the definition of a nation.     Mutual benefit from society through trade and shared costs doesn't have to be anything to do with a centralised government.   Switzerland probably has the best idea on this as they split government up more locally, people are not administered remotely by people they will never be close in any possible contact.

   The OP idea isn't even new, the idea of taxing a population by undermining diluting constantly the unit of currency goes all the way back to the Roman empire and it made slaves of their people.   Even the citizens who formerly fought to become part of the empire now were trapped by enforced laws of a remote and unfair empire.   People should never be forced to use one particular currency, that is what gives the game away if there remains any confusion when large government issues no choice or freedom of movement personally, financially to organise as an individual then the person or citizen no longer exists.

Everytime I see a thread anywhere by people saying why haven't wages kept up with costs, we're poorer now in our skilled employment then decades ago; the reason is the money that became worthless.   We still use all the major currencies but they are cents on the dollar compared to their former value, thats why your wages don't go as far and costs outweigh wage growth so some people are actually struggling while being fully employed; in a rich country in peacetime that should not be happening.

[bananacue]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

[gabmen]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

It's not the tax that needs to be looked into but the people in power utilizing the taxes that people are paying for. It's obvious that we can't go taxless. It's logical of course. What needs to be done is to have people up there who can take their personal agendas behind them and think of what's good for the people paying tax. That's the hard part of it. These people who are supposed to be responsible for making any community or country better, almost always think of getting their share of the money.

[makolz26]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

It's not the tax that needs to be looked into but the people in power utilizing the taxes that people are paying for. It's obvious that we can't go taxless. It's logical of course. What needs to be done is to have people up there who can take their personal agendas behind them and think of what's good for the people paying tax. That's the hard part of it. These people who are supposed to be responsible for making any community or country better, almost always think of getting their share of the money.

We have nothing to control regarding our government as they are the ones controlling the fund of the country, they are the one controlling the citizens, and it is very hard to find a leader which is loyal and has integrity to do what is right to protect and serve their country righteously. Having a taxless society is not the solution but it depends on us how we will choose the right leader.

[GideonGono]

I think it is impossible, for taxes are lifeblood of the socuety. It is a means for the government to carry out their functions so it is necessary for the existence of the government. Without it, the government cannot continue, as it need to pay expenses too. What can a lifeless government do? I think it will also affect us. Though taxes are often corrupted or use in personal gain, I think it is not ideal to remove taxes. Maybe better to reduce it.

It's not the tax that needs to be looked into but the people in power utilizing the taxes that people are paying for. It's obvious that we can't go taxless. It's logical of course. What needs to be done is to have people up there who can take their personal agendas behind them and think of what's good for the people paying tax. That's the hard part of it. These people who are supposed to be responsible for making any community or country better, almost always think of getting their share of the money.

That’s the challenging part really. Since taxes are needed to run a country and provide opportunities to the people then I also do believe that it is impossible for a taxless society to foster. It would eventually weaken the security and the welfare of the people. The thing about choosing a leader is that these politicians would try to sell themselves with good promises but when put on the post they would not be able to uphold it. And sometimes to select a leader is quiet limited like in the US where there are only two partylist and two running president and you would have no choice but to choose which is less worse than the other.

[darkangel11]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

[DaftAjax]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

Because 300 years ago, the Kingdom does not provide incentives to its citizens and employees (no healthcare to the majority of citizens, the security sucks, etc.). We can all agree that taxes are running the government now, without it the "system" would probably collapse, along with the country as a whole. Another thing, the government tax that much because back then the labor, the employment, the businesses aren't as prosperous as the present. And I should also include that, Fiat money is getting worse and worse in exchange for whatever it's worth for products and services.

They can say that they can tax the "rich people" but still gets away with it.

[atjiat]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

I think that in this case we are talking about the freedom of each person in the literal and figurative sense, and not about taxes.  In my opinion, it is thanks to taxes that all states exist, and not just the state administration apparatus.  All that you said primarily depends on the government, which is elected by the people themselves and therefore whom we have chosen, so will be the decisions of the chosen "Servants of the People."  Nevertheless, I would significantly reduce the tax burden on ordinary citizens, and would increase taxes for all sorts of businesses, where billionaires are born every year.

[darkangel11]

Because 300 years ago, the Kingdom does not provide incentives to its citizens and employees (no healthcare to the majority of citizens, the security sucks, etc.). We can all agree that taxes are running the government now, without it the "system" would probably collapse, along with the country as a whole.

Healthcare is covered by healthcare tax. I'm talking about income tax.

It would have to cut spending but it wouldn't collapse. Back in the Roman days being an MP was an honour. They weren't getting crazy wages 3 times higher than average citizen. A US senator gets $174,000 a year. That's 14,5 k a month while you're working your ass off in a corporation to get $2k. 5k a month is already a very good wage and those leeches are getting raises! They used to get 150k a year but that wasn't enough, now they're getting 174.  It's the same everywhere.

In the EU MPs are getting €8k a month! In most parts of the eu the average is 2k and if you're getting 3k you're considered wealthy. They are getting 8, because their hard work of rising their hand and speaking their mind once in a while is worth more than that of a surgeon or a pilot.

Another thing, the government tax that much because back then the labor, the employment, the businesses aren't as prosperous as the present. And I should also include that, Fiat money is getting worse and worse in exchange for whatever it's worth for products and services.

They can say that they can tax the "rich people" but still gets away with it.

The work of a man was always paid accordingly and you might think the businesses weren't big back then because there was no industry and everything was being built by hand, but people had nice businesses, but making simple things like candles, wine, furnaces, bells. It doesn't matter how big their companies were they were always paid for their time.

[Oneandpure]

did you know that the tax you pay to the government is useful to facilitate our activities and our daily lives.
tax is the spirit of a country, not a tax that is eliminated but corruptors or incompetent officials are eliminated.

If you talk about the local government than it's true. Otherwise, it's not, because an average taxpayer is not affected by things like military budget, space research, other government agencies like the CIA, ETF. On the contrary, the average taxpayer is affected negatively by these agencies stealing their property and putting them in jail for smoking a joint or exercising the right to free speech.

It is really impossible for society to be taxless because as a responsible citizen of a particular country or region, we should pay taxes unless there are no laws that make you dont pay taxes. But I think there are no government that has no law about taxes because taxes is what they need to produce or build particular project like infrastructure and any other building or project that is helpful to its citizens. But in terms of cryptocurrency, I think the government cannot do that because since cryptocurrency is decentralized they do not know who to give taxes, they can do that in banks.

It looks like said that it's possible to minimize federal taxes and focus on local state taxes. A country can function this way.
At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist. The governments are getting more greedy by day and trying to decide what you can or can't buy, what you can produce, what you can say, what you can invest in.
Sometimes I feel like one of the last sane people on earth because almost nobody finds this strange and wants to openly oppose it.

They take your freedom to bear arms, freedom to travel, freedom to take your possessions with you when you move to another country (like they do in China), and then tax you 75% like France did to the richest people.

I think that in this case we are talking about the freedom of each person in the literal and figurative sense, and not about taxes.  In my opinion, it is thanks to taxes that all states exist, and not just the state administration apparatus.  All that you said primarily depends on the government, which is elected by the people themselves and therefore whom we have chosen, so will be the decisions of the chosen "Servants of the People."  Nevertheless, I would significantly reduce the tax burden on ordinary citizens, and would increase taxes for all sorts of businesses, where billionaires are born every year.

Bitcoin become good source income for government if allowed as legal currency payment with tax way system, I think when government have adopt bitcoin as legal payment there are many way to help country for increase economic become better, but government still not have good way how to adopt bitcoin and how to get tax way by bitcoin become legal currency payment for the future.

[deisik]

At this point most governments are taking 30-50% of your income. 300 years ago kings would only take 10-20% of your income every year and countries did exist

I don't know about 300 years ago but in the Medieval Europe (more specifically, in England) you had to pay a certain amount of gold coin irrespective of your income. In other words, even if you had no income, you still had got to pay a tax. It was called a poll tax, otherwise known as head tax, since it was levied as a fixed sum on every person. And if you couldn't pay this tax, you had your property confiscated and yourself turned into a beggar. It was a pretty ruthless system for simple folks which had been causing social unrest and rebellions

So much for 10-20% of your income

[Vishnu.Reang]

A taxless society is only possible if we expect no spending from the government. Also, all the government employees need to be volunteers (including administrators, policemen, soldiers, teachers.etc). And do you think that it is practical? It is possible to eradicate income tax and take care of the government expenses using the indirect taxes (GST, VAT.etc). But at present, I don't think that it is possible to eliminate all types of tax. 

[int03h]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.
Paying taxes helps contribute everyone's money to create the society you live in today.
The economy of a country is being effectively spent and regulated by the state. The capitalist will become monopoly because there is no state control. The capitalists will find a way to make more money. The most disadvantageous one is us. The idea of ​​a country without taxes is crazy. People are not as good as you think.

[abhiseshakana]

A taxless society is only possible if we expect no spending from the government. Also, all the government employees need to be volunteers (including administrators, policemen, soldiers, teachers.etc). And do you think that it is practical? It is possible to eradicate income tax and take care of the government expenses using the indirect taxes (GST, VAT.etc). But at present, I don't think that it is possible to eliminate all types of tax. 

The state was created to provide basic services to society. In providing services, of course, the state requires funds for its operations. To support the state budget, the government usually relies on income from taxes and foreign debt. if the state cannot collect taxes and owe debts, the state must do business to meet the state budget.

The first condition for tax-exempt people is the availability of basic services for the community equally and without inequality. The second country must be a business entity for its services. If the state is not allowed to collect taxes, it means that citizens must work together to finance the country's interests. Taken an example of the construction of irrigation channels in the village using mutual funds from residents.

The loss of state revenues from taxes must be covered by increased non-tax revenues and mutual assistance funds from citizens.

[Sithara007]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

[ampu]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary.
No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary.

[deisik]

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary

You seem to have messed up with quoting

So I fixed it for you in my reply and advise you to do the same in yours lest you should be accused for plagiarizing your own comment. Regarding the poor and the homeless, the solution seems to be straightforward and kind of intuitive. It is these unlucky ones which should provide these services (some part thereof). Obviously, not the high-end services which require skill and expertise, but simple and easy ones. The problem solved

It fact, this is pretty much how it happens now. The rich pay the taxes, and through these taxes the lowest strata of society get their support and sustenance. In this way, the removal of taxes could actually make the lives of these people better by encouraging them to be productive and useful to the society as a whole (instead of being parasites)

[Vishnu.Reang]

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

As you say, they will pay as a service.  If this happens, people with income can benefit from these services in the most professional way.  What about the poor, the homeless, who will protect them and provide services to them?  If what you say happens, that country is scary

You seem to have messed up with quoting

So I fixed it for you in my reply and advise you to do the same in yours lest you should be accused for plagiarizing your own comment. Regarding the poor and the homeless, the solution seems to be straightforward and kind of intuitive. It is these unlucky ones which should provide these services (some part thereof). Obviously, not the high-end services which require skill and expertise, but simple and easy ones. The problem solved

You are absolutely right. The so called "poor and homeless" can't expect the more well off citizens to take care of them for eternity. Eventually, they need to contribute to the society in some form. They can provide manpower for various infra-structure projects, such as the construction of roads, bridges, railway lines.etc, or they can contribute in the law enforcement department.

[Spaffin]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

But then, what do you think will be the situation with social guarantees for vulnerable sections of the population?  The fact is that today a fairly large number of citizens depend on state programs and it is not only in services or public places, like roads or bridges.

[DaftAjax]

I'm talking about income tax.

The work of a man was always paid accordingly and you might think the businesses weren't big back then because there was no industry and everything was being built by hand, but people had nice businesses, but making simple things like candles, wine, furnaces, bells. It doesn't matter how big their companies were they were always paid for their time.

If so, what I'm pointing out really is the "amount", well, not literally the amount being paid but the number of things to work on. As you mentioned, back then it's only as simple as weaving, making wine (tho there still is), but what my point is, it's not the same as now.

I guess what I really want to point out is that there are many things to consider now, compared to back then.

[South Park]

A tax-free society is one without any social security, no free roads, no social services, no laws, no police, no police. There is a leader of the country.

No. You are wrong here. A taxless society means that you will not get these services for free. You need to pay in order to qualify for these services. For example, it won't be the state or the federal government which handles the law enforcement. That job will be left to the residents' associations. They will hire private security personal for law enforcement and the members will pay a fixed amount in order to avail the services. The same with infra-structure projects such as roads and bridges. Those residents' associations which benefit from these projects will take care of the expenses, by collecting a fixed contribution from the members. And know what? IMO, this is a much better option than giving all the power to the federal government.

But then, what do you think will be the situation with social guarantees for vulnerable sections of the population?  The fact is that today a fairly large number of citizens depend on state programs and it is not only in services or public places, like roads or bridges.

Then most likely the responsibility to help those in need will fall in the shoulders of charities, and while it is clear that charities do not receive enough support from the population, however most of the time this has to do with the fact that many people think that they are already paying too many taxes and they are not willing to part ways with even more of their money, but in a taxless society it should be expected that the population supports charities way more strongly.

[Blue_oxen]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

[Barbut]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

I don't have respect for the people that run my country, but I agree with you that taxless society is an unreasonable idea. We need to pay taxes to have roads, hospitals, schools, and other stuff, it should be free for all! The current tax system is abused by government officials, they are getting richer, now everything costs, we pay taxes but we pay for roads too, for hospitals too, we even pay for school. We pay for everything, but what we get from that? In my country the situation is chaotic.

[South Park]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

I don't have respect for the people that run my country, but I agree with you that taxless society is an unreasonable idea. We need to pay taxes to have roads, hospitals, schools, and other stuff, it should be free for all! The current tax system is abused by government officials, they are getting richer, now everything costs, we pay taxes but we pay for roads too, for hospitals too, we even pay for school. We pay for everything, but what we get from that? In my country the situation is chaotic.

The more you ask for the government to do, the more taxes they need to charge to you, the bigger the government becomes and at same time it becomes more inefficient, governments should charge as little taxes as possible just in order to function properly, but that is not what we see now, governments are charging you a huge amount of taxes and supposedly all of that money should go back to you in the form of services but that is not the case because politicians are stealing that money, while we need a society that pays taxes to the government, governments have abused that power and are stealing too much money from the population.

[Vishnu.Reang]

But then, what do you think will be the situation with social guarantees for vulnerable sections of the population?  The fact is that today a fairly large number of citizens depend on state programs and it is not only in services or public places, like roads or bridges.

IMO, more than 90% of the welfare recipients doesn't deserve the government funds. The welfare system is vastly misused, especially in the developed nations. In order to gain votes, the leftist parties (such as the Democrats in the United States) have made it possible for undeserving people to claim welfare payments. This needs to change.

[clickerz]

I think this is unreasonable. You are just thinking about your personality and not respecting the people who run the country. Do you think each individual can build a beautiful country? No, it should have a good leader.
I am in favor of regular tax payments because it can help the government build roads and things that make our country better. Despite many conclusions that the political system is corrupt, I still don't care, when a country has no leader, our country will soon be chaotic. I consider corrupt money to be the cost of running the country. What do you think ?

Taxes are the lifeblood of the government, from this money the government can have projects like large scale infrastructures, or to spend on health, education, etc that is to give back to the people in terms of projects which is beneficial to constituents. The problem here is the elected officials if they are corrupt, dishonest and serving only their self-interest.

[STT]

It wouldnt be a question of deserves exactly, are those recipients of welfare also tax payers then to some extent its justified to make sure they survive another day to pay more tax in future, doesnt have to be about being nice at all just consider it some investment in a future resource.
   Of course if there is fraud of some kind then its another matter but a plain lack of job is comparable to private insure possible for gaps in employment so its not so unusual.   It does mean higher taxes though, I'd also argue in favour of heath care again because you want to look after people who pay tax so its justified imo.  I really prefer a small government and less tax on an economy but people are great investments also.

[DaftAjax]

<....>
The problem here is the elected officials if they are corrupt, dishonest and serving only their self-interest.

They're not the only ones to blame actually, people that are in the high society (elites) have their own ways of preventing, or should I say dodging on paying taxes. They could just literally hire a lawyer and that's it. That's is why people who are in the lower society (low~mid) are the ones suffering from paying high-cost taxes, that results of inflation--and the reason why inflations exists in an economy is that people that supposed to pay their taxes, don't pay and budgets that are supposed to be spent in the designated projects are being collected by politicians.

[STT]

I dont go with the elites idea and the 1% and how unfair it is, that is the whining culture and its not going to solve anything to go after the rich as if that can solve the overall economy of a country.   If I really believed it'd work I'd not object however silly but its not going to work in any case possible.  Confiscation,  taxation to the point of obstruction, red tape or outright royal/politcal charter however its phrased its not going to be a better system then open competitive capitalism.
   The reason is there in history, we have tried high taxes before and it gains less revenue then allowing the best economy possible and taxing all more evenly.  Ideally government should not be so giant that it requires to become a burden, then theres a problem like Greece had I guess was partly related to that.

They could just literally hire a lawyer

Totally right and before we even discuss any change the rich people already have a lawyer standing ready for their whole family.  Their companies if they own any employ lawyers and the bigger the company the more powerful this effect becomes.   This is where rich have the advantage over the poor, scales of economy can work against the very weakest in society as they become unable to fight the battles that a company or rich individual can.   I dont blame people for being rich, I blame the system for not serving the poorest people.
   The blame I find most easily apparent is in the smallest units of currency, it has to represent capitalism which is why I disagree with this idea of inflation being a harmless tax when its actually the very worst type almost.

[Karmakid]

If we are going to have a taxless system then it will just destroy our nation. Taxless means there will be no fund for the government to continue or start the concepts or ideas that they have to improve the current situation of a certain nation. Taxes are essential and without these, we will not attain all the things that we are currently enjoying.

[bettercrypto]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

[Gheka]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

Well, everyone can start analyzing and deducing like you, they can certainly find many reasons for paying taxes and what the money is being used for, and for a nation, tax is essential for the government to build a safe and strong place, without it, we would hardly have a peaceful and developed life, buildings and architecture, good medical conditions, it's all from our taxes, I don't understand why we want to deny this benefit. Sometimes, it may be too high, even some people think the government system is corrupt this money but very few, it cannot compare with the benefits we receive

[South Park]

I dont go with the elites idea and the 1% and how unfair it is, that is the whining culture and its not going to solve anything to go after the rich as if that can solve the overall economy of a country.   If I really believed it'd work I'd not object however silly but its not going to work in any case possible.  Confiscation,  taxation to the point of obstruction, red tape or outright royal/politcal charter however its phrased its not going to be a better system then open competitive capitalism.
   The reason is there in history, we have tried high taxes before and it gains less revenue then allowing the best economy possible and taxing all more evenly.  Ideally government should not be so giant that it requires to become a burden, then theres a problem like Greece had I guess was partly related to that.

snip

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

[DaftAjax]

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

I don't know if indiscriminately increasing tax is the best solution but, here in the Philippines, you see our country had a considerable amount of debt from the past, and right now the economy is facing inflation. Now like I said, I don't know if it's the wisest decision to make but the current president is doing everything he can to make the country great again. I also would like to mention that, I think he doesn't want to touch other funds just to pay these debts (unlike what the past presidents did) so maybe this is his alternative.

That aside, people who blame the rich because of their situation are stupid. No one should think that way. Instead, as mentioned, blame the system.

[South Park]

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

I don't know if indiscriminately increasing tax is the best solution but, here in the Philippines, you see our country had a considerable amount of debt from the past, and right now the economy is facing inflation. Now like I said, I don't know if it's the wisest decision to make but the current president is doing everything he can to make the country great again. I also would like to mention that, I think he doesn't want to touch other funds just to pay these debts (unlike what the past presidents did) so maybe this is his alternative.

That aside, people who blame the rich because of their situation are stupid. No one should think that way. Instead, as mentioned, blame the system.

I do not know much about the situation in the Philippines to have an informed opinion about it, but there are basically two ways to tax people, one way is to do it overtly and the other is to do it covertly, when governments decide to create a tax for something then they are charging you a tax in an overtly manner, but the second way in which they can do this is to inflate the currency, this way they can pay their debts by printing more money, the problem is that this reduces what you can buy with your money and as such reduces your wealth, that is just another form of tax but which is done in a covertly manner.

[HarmonyA]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

Taxless society would cause economy havoc. This will cause all manner of economic problems inclusive of inflation,  indirect tax on goods and services that would not be traced to any government agency. Making it possible for corruption on all sphere of governance.

[Kevondo]

The truth is that there are no easy solutions for this, a level of taxation is necessary but as demonstrated by the Laffer curve there comes a point in which increasing taxes will not bring greater revenue for the government, but governments are always arguing that they can keep increasing taxes indiscriminately and still get more money to get even bigger, and while many blame the rich it is incorrect to do so, many of those that achieved great wealth began as middle class individuals that just became successful and are generating wealth for themselves as well as goods, services and jobs, so confiscating their wealth may bring some temporal profit to the government but in the long term it will be detrimental to the economy as we see in countries that did this like Venezuela.

I don't know if indiscriminately increasing tax is the best solution but, here in the Philippines, you see our country had a considerable amount of debt from the past, and right now the economy is facing inflation. Now like I said, I don't know if it's the wisest decision to make but the current president is doing everything he can to make the country great again. I also would like to mention that, I think he doesn't want to touch other funds just to pay these debts (unlike what the past presidents did) so maybe this is his alternative.

That aside, people who blame the rich because of their situation are stupid. No one should think that way. Instead, as mentioned, blame the system.

I never support the idea of increasing taxes for paying debts of your country. This is the most stupid and cruel mean of paying off debts. Increasing taxes is not showing the credibility of president. If president is there ruling the whole country it means he has something special that other people lack for ruling the country. he then definitely do something unique to get country out of debts like increasing means of investment, building opportunities for business etc.

[DaftAjax]

I do not know much about the situation in the Philippines to have an informed opinion about it, but there are basically two ways to tax people, one way is to do it overtly and the other is to do it covertly, when governments decide to create a tax for something then they are charging you a tax in an overtly manner, but the second way in which they can do this is to inflate the currency, this way they can pay their debts by printing more money, the problem is that this reduces what you can buy with your money and as such reduces your wealth, that is just another form of tax but which is done in a covertly manner.

I appreciate the information, I think what the government did was taxing overtly because I know that they didn't print more money, tho before we're like 50~55 PHP in exchange for USD but now it's like 60, then again there are other factors that affect exchange--outside the country that is. Tho I don't really have detailed information to share to portray the drastic change. Anyway, the government increased the tax for sin tax (i.e. tobacco and liquor products), they also did on confectionaries and other sugar-processed products (i.e. soft drinks). After that, other products start to get expensive as well, I don't know if it's the inflation or because of the other products that have been affected by the increased tax.

I never support the idea of increasing taxes for paying debts of your country. This is the most stupid and cruel mean of paying off debts. Increasing taxes is not showing the credibility of president. If president is there ruling the whole country it means he has something special that other people lack for ruling the country. he then definitely do something unique to get country out of debts like increasing means of investment, building opportunities for business etc.

I don't support it either but I don't really dive too much into details about it, there must be some kind of valid, practical reason for such heavy decision. Then again, I don't really like politics to really be fond of reading thru everything, I only mentioned it because it was really an interesting issue, and maybe I could get an idea of why they're doing such thing, because another thing is, I don't really trust journalist or the news in TVs that much.

[smyslov]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

I agree there is no way we can have a taxless society, although there are countries which has a very minimal taxes, and these countries are coming from oil rich country, they can do that because they have a very high revenues coming from oil, but for other countries they need taxes to support infrastructure and delivering basic goods.

[crisanto01]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

I agree there is no way we can have a taxless society, although there are countries which has a very minimal taxes, and these countries are coming from oil rich country, they can do that because they have a very high revenues coming from oil, but for other countries they need taxes to support infrastructure and delivering basic goods.

It's really impossible, just imagine the life we have if we don't have tax, do you think people can work without any compensation at all? Without tax, there is no government so it would be  hard if we will have a country which has no government at all, there will be no unity and no opportunity at all.

[Vishnu.Reang]

It's really impossible, just imagine the life we have if we don't have tax, do you think people can work without any compensation at all? Without tax, there is no government so it would be  hard if we will have a country which has no government at all, there will be no unity and no opportunity at all.

I don't believe that it is possible to eliminate tax 100%. But we can keep it down to tolerable levels, given that the government cuts down on wasteful spending. Nowadays, large parts of the tax revenues are being used for providing salaries to the government employees. And another large fraction is being used for maintaining armies and waging wars. An even bigger portion gets eaten up by the welfare rates. If we can cut down on these sectors, then it will be possible to keep the tax rates to a minimal level.

[BChydro]

It's really impossible, just imagine the life we have if we don't have tax, do you think people can work without any compensation at all? Without tax, there is no government so it would be  hard if we will have a country which has no government at all, there will be no unity and no opportunity at all.

You really cannot under estimate countries like GCC countries who are oil rich and they do not impose any tax on their citizens as well as the expats living over there, yes they have the oil money and hence they do not need to tax anyone and yet they are prospering and they have turned the deserted lands into man made marvels. If the government is able to make their own money then you can think about a tax less society and it is really possible as there are countries like that .

[DaftAjax]

You really cannot under estimate countries like GCC countries who are oil rich and they do not impose any tax on their citizens as well as the expats living over there, yes they have the oil money and hence they do not need to tax anyone and yet they are prospering and they have turned the deserted lands into man made marvels. If the government is able to make their own money then you can think about a tax less society and it is really possible as there are countries like that .

Where did you get this information about "not needing to tax the citizens", care to share? I'm pretty sure even if a country is prospering it doesn't mean you don't have to tax people, you are living in that country, after all, you're a citizen. Besides, taxes have their utilization--maintenance, government infrastructures, etc.

And about that Oil, I'm certain that private companies (corporations) handle those precious resources, they don't necessesarily answer directly to the government, after all its business.

[Webetcoins]

Before we dream to have taxless society. Let us first define the tax.
In my own understanding, it is a burden that shoulders by citizen in order for the state to have funds. The government collects it and return back to the people in form of infrastructure, budget for different agencies and other projects.
Therefore, how does the state grows up if there is no tax? Let us always go back to basic before we wish to have a taxless society.

I agree there is no way we can have a taxless society, although there are countries which has a very minimal taxes, and these countries are coming from oil rich country, they can do that because they have a very high revenues coming from oil, but for other countries they need taxes to support infrastructure and delivering basic goods.

It's really impossible, just imagine the life we have if we don't have tax, do you think people can work without any compensation at all? Without tax, there is no government so it would be  hard if we will have a country which has no government at all, there will be no unity and no opportunity at all.

Taxless society is a concept given probably by those who are fed up paying taxes and the government is not investing tax money on them. There are countries that are still suffering from corruption and their governments are not loyal to them. But if we look at this concept form your perspective, of course the society will become chaotic if there is no one to monitor their economical state. They shall simply make crypto legal and let people experience full authority.

[abhiseshakana]

It's really impossible, just imagine the life we have if we don't have tax, do you think people can work without any compensation at all? Without tax, there is no government so it would be  hard if we will have a country which has no government at all, there will be no unity and no opportunity at all.

Tax has a very important role in the life of the state, especially in the implementation of development because the tax is a source of state revenue to finance all expenses including development expenses. There are several countries that rely on fiscal policy to finance state expenditure, these costs can be obtained from tax revenue. Nowadays tax is used for routine financing such as personnel expenditure, goods expenditure, maintenance, and so forth.

We take the example in Argentina, to reduce the budget deficit, the Argentine government applies an increase in export taxes for grains. For developing countries and poor countries, tax revenue contributes significantly to gross domestic product.

The tax function is different in some rich countries (middle eastern countries) because the tax is used as an instrument to reach the destination. In the context of leading investment, both domestically and abroad, various tax relief facilities are provided. In order to protect domestic production, the government sets high import duties on foreign products. (For example, Qatar imposes a 100% excise tax on alcoholic drinks with the aim that consumption of these health-damaging drinks is limited).

With the tax, the government has the funds to carry out policies related to price stability so that inflation can be controlled. This can be done, among others, by regulating the circulation of money in the community, tax collection, effective and efficient use of taxes.

So it is not always the tax that is applied to increase state revenue, the tax is used to achieve certain interests.

[drlukacs]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

It seems that you are just talking about taxes and the convenience of paying with crypto. So for those households who don't know the technology and they never even know about crypto? how do they face new society? Besides, you only talk about annual inflation, but in an economy where there is never only inflation, we still have deflation and deflation. If inflation did not occur, then the whole economy would collapse?
I think this plan is not feasible and our fiat money is still the best.

[Polar91]

Where did you get this information about "not needing to tax the citizens", care to share? I'm pretty sure even if a country is prospering it doesn't mean you don't have to tax people, you are living in that country, after all, you're a citizen. Besides, taxes have their utilization--maintenance, government infrastructures, etc.

And about that Oil, I'm certain that private companies (corporations) handle those precious resources, they don't necessesarily answer directly to the government, after all its business.

There's actually no way we could escape paying taxes and no way paying taxes becomes better than not complying with it. It is our duty to pay taxes and the government's duty to make the taxes productive by implementing better rules, regulations, building infrastructures and making the country better. Taxes for me is what unifies the government and the people, without taxes, there will be no gas to fuel the innovation and development so in terms of cryptocurrency, the taxless society isn't a good idea for us to come up with.

[xen1oph]

I like this positive, but I'm afraid it will not work. Many people have said here before me why. If this idea is modified and improved, then perhaps it will still have a chance.

[shoreno]

I like this positive, but I'm afraid it will not work. Many people have said here before me why.

your right and that is also what i think about that a taxless society might be nearly impossible to happen because all countries have a government and being control by them . i think its the law of every government to assign a tax for those who are working in a government related work or if you have a public business   .

If this idea is modified and improved, then perhaps it will still have a chance.

yes is does  . modified in a way of decreasing the incured tax seems to be possible than removing the tax at all  . that should improve the taxing system and many people will love it if it approved.

[Janation]

I like this positive, but I'm afraid it will not work. Many people have said here before me why. If this idea is modified and improved, then perhaps it will still have a chance.

I do agree, it will not work.

Without tax there will be a lot of chaos since there will be no money to be used on project to help the poor, to improve the country, just imagine how bad a country is without tax. It is favorable for people who have big business and they can take their profits as a whole but what about the country?

[awik p]

I like this positive, but I'm afraid it will not work. Many people have said here before me why. If this idea is modified and improved, then perhaps it will still have a chance.

I do agree, it will not work.

Without tax there will be a lot of chaos since there will be no money to be used on project to help the poor, to improve the country, just imagine how bad a country is without tax. It is favorable for people who have big business and they can take their profits as a whole but what about the country?

Developed countries certainly have a large tax revenue, and the money is managed for the country's progress. if cryptocurrency is legalized throughout the world, I think tax regulations will be established, even though we don't know yet what it looks like. and the government certainly does not want their tax revenues to decline

[deisik]

It's really impossible, just imagine the life we have if we don't have tax, do you think people can work without any compensation at all? Without tax, there is no government so it would be  hard if we will have a country which has no government at all, there will be no unity and no opportunity at all.

I don't believe that it is possible to eliminate tax 100%

It may be technically impossible for now

But from an economic point of view, taxes are not a thing unto itself (read, they are utilitarian), and something which can be implemented in different ways. Taxes are the payment that some or all members of society have to pay for public services which should be equally available to all members of this society (like roads, education, etc)

And it just happens that a government levies and collects these taxes (that's basically why these mandatory payments are called taxes in the first place). In other words, if we can remove the government from the equation without affecting the financial support for the public good, we won't need taxes as we currently perceive them

[kotik085]

And what is there to watch. Today, many traders and investors live in an unsecured society and this does not interfere with human development.

[DaftAjax]

<....>

There's actually no way we could escape paying taxes and no way paying taxes becomes better than not complying with it. It is our duty to pay taxes and the government's duty to make the taxes productive by implementing better rules, regulations, building infrastructures and making the country better. Taxes for me is what unifies the government and the people, without taxes, there will be no gas to fuel the innovation and development so in terms of cryptocurrency, the taxless society isn't a good idea for us to come up with.

But there is a way to escape tax, or more like, there is a way to manipulate how you pay tax to absolutely nothing. Disclaimer, research by your own risk.

The problem here is that the tax we ought to pay does not give the expected result from the government, that's why people complain about it. But it's also not good to just remove the tax, possible, but it isn't right--to the governing perspective (tho I don't know anything about politics).

Taxes don't really unite the people and the government. The definition of tax (read) is: People pay taxes to the Government to serve the people. But now it turns out to be: People pay taxes to the Government to manipulate the people to pay more taxes.

[DaftAjax]

<....>

<....>

It may be technically impossible for now

But from an economic point of view, taxes are not a thing unto itself (read, they are utilitarian), and something which can be implemented in different ways. Taxes are the payment that some or all members of society have to pay for public services which should be equally available to all members of this society (like roads, education, etc)

And it just happens that a government levies and collects these taxes (that's basically why these mandatory payments are called taxes in the first place). In other words, if we can remove the government from the equation without affecting the financial support for the public good, we won't need taxes as we currently perceive them

As long as people believe that we need a government nothing is going to change. As long as the government says what the people wanted to hear, people will still pay taxes. And the government implemented a law against those who don't (sketchy). Rallying doesn't help, even impeachment doesn't help. Politicians can be replaced, even if people successfully convince the congress to impeach someone, someone would just replace that person and the show will still go on. People don't realize that the root of it all was the system, the whole government itself. People are being manipulated by the government into thinking that we can't be a society without a governing body, as if it was a part of society. People forget that the government should serve the people, not the other way around just because of the tax.

[huige007]

And what is there to watch. Today, many traders and investors live in an unsecured society and this does not interfere with human development.

Unsecured like how? Unsecure financially or physically? Well there is no doubt in this that people are living at the mercy of cruel and corrupt politicians which enjoy making people unsecure financially so they cannot stand against them. We humans always figure out ways of progressing and continuous development no matter what conditions we are facing. Technological development is the one that never stops.

[bitbunnny]

Taxless society is utopia. Governments and local communities need to financed by citizens and if you ask me citizens need to contribute to wellfare of community they live.
So to my opinion the problem is not in taxation but in the way that money is spent and that taxation is fair and reasonable. In some countries there are cases where that money ends in private pockets or is spent on totaly wrong projects and not for the benefit of citizens and community and that is the reason where people have the reason to be angry and not to support taxation.
Honestly, I don't see how development of technologies can contribute for taxation not to be implemented. Maybe through blockchain it can help to become more transparent

[shield132]

Taxless society is utopia. Governments and local communities need to financed by citizens and if you ask me citizens need to contribute to wellfare of community they live.
So to my opinion the problem is not in taxation but in the way that money is spent and that taxation is fair and reasonable. In some countries there are cases where that money ends in private pockets or is spent on totaly wrong projects and not for the benefit of citizens and community and that is the reason where people have the reason to be angry and not to support taxation.
Honestly, I don't see how development of technologies can contribute for taxation not to be implemented. Maybe through blockchain it can help to become more transparent

I agree with you cause you mentioned correctly, problem is the way money is spent. In a lot of countries it's spend in some people's pocket and I have no idea why do they need so much money, are they eating it instead of real food? No one cares about poor people, only rich ones are prioritized and at the same time no one acts like an alarm to escape from this bad situation, they just adapt on it and continue their life in working of growing someone's pocket.
Also technologies aren't escape from this situation, it can even turn into opposite and make things harder for us.

[FlightyPouch]

And what is there to watch. Today, many traders and investors live in an unsecured society and this does not interfere with human development.

We are always at risk and that is not just traders and investors but everyone since I don't understand if you are talking about being unsecured in the real world or being in the internet unsecured. Everything could happen and crimes is not always happening offline. I think I agree that when crypto currencies are legalized all over the world, maybe not, government might find a way to tax users.

[senin]

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

[Shimmiry]

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

I think taxless society can happen because today of the way how does the country earn is by the tax they collected to the people and use those tax to build a lot of things that the people needed to live well. Today we have a different job and a different salary, the fee depends on our status in life and our salary, the more salary we have, the more taxes we pay. Like in cryptocurrency if we hold a lot of coins, it has a huge payment too because those transactions fee is a payment for using their website or platform to transfer or get your funds. If the country becomes rich, I think this is a possibility that can be taxless now.

[go1lo2va3]

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

I think taxless society can happen because today of the way how does the country earn is by the tax they collected to the people and use those tax to build a lot of things that the people needed to live well. Today we have a different job and a different salary, the fee depends on our status in life and our salary, the more salary we have, the more taxes we pay. Like in cryptocurrency if we hold a lot of coins, it has a huge payment too because those transactions fee is a payment for using their website or platform to transfer or get your funds. If the country becomes rich, I think this is a possibility that can be taxless now.

Imo taxless country (how you described it) is possible, but it won't last long.
I mean imagine rich country pay for everything society needs. And where do the govs get money from anyway?
They will spend any savings they've had and taxes would be back soon.

[huige007]

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

Most of the people are in favor of taxes but the issue is they don’t trust governments most of the times with their money as corrupt politicians use them for their own purposes and needs. This is important for running a society that rich people pay some money or give it to poor to help them meeting their basic human needs and this is what taxes are supposed to do. Everybody would like to pays taxes if they know where they are being used.

[DaftAjax]

Taxless society is utopia. Governments and local communities need to financed by citizens and if you ask me citizens need to contribute to wellfare of community they live.
Honestly, I don't see how development of technologies can contribute for taxation not to be implemented. Maybe through blockchain it can help to become more transparent

If we are really planning on having a taxless society, we have to eliminate the root of it all--money. But you could imagine what would happen by then. Basically, the tax is a form of "combined" effort, so the government could do something for the country and its people. You may not realize this but people are driven by personal gains. Whatever their goals may be, mostly it's for their own good. So when people gain power, they tend to do things that is beyond, or should I say, it's not in their position anymore to execute such actions.

Transparency has its own disadvantages, and trust me its not a good thing. Even if the government implements blockchain technology, it still does not assure the people if the government doesn't commit any illegal actions.

[aiguy]

it is good idea to be a taxless society, through this, society will be rich, there will be lot if job, poverty will be eresed, but one thing will be weak, that the government

[Mauser]

it is good idea to be a taxless society, through this, society will be rich, there will be lot if job, poverty will be eresed, but one thing will be weak, that the government

Not sure if poverty will be erased when there is are no taxes. In times of crisis like we have at the moment a lot of people rely on government support. If you receive the minimum wage you are getting benefits from the government. Without taxes the government has no income to support families. Who will help out if you lose your job? Without the government in place we would need other forms of support. Saying that everything will be better without taxes seems a bit unrealistic to me. Also what about police or firefighters? They are all being paid by taxes through the government. I think we would be worse off without taxes completely.

[FlightyPouch]

In the history of mankind there have been many cases when people tried to create, as it seemed to them, a more just society without taxes. All of them were defeated, because financing of common needs is necessary in any society. Another thing is how to effectively use taxes, but this is another matter.

Most of the people are in favor of taxes but the issue is they don’t trust governments most of the times with their money as corrupt politicians use them for their own purposes and needs. This is important for running a society that rich people pay some money or give it to poor to help them meeting their basic human needs and this is what taxes are supposed to do. Everybody would like to pays taxes if they know where they are being used.

Well, it is not that we don't trust the government but the thing is that they are giving us something as proof that they are corrupt government officials. Instead of using that for the country, they are putting it in their pockets for their personal needs. As far as I know, they also show where they spend the money of the people but sometimes there are trivial things being paid there. well not actually the item but the paid money is just hilarious.

[Ozero]

Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance.  Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion.  All of them were able to exist for a very short time.  The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience.  To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes.  There is no other way yet.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance.  Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion.  All of them were able to exist for a very short time.  The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience.  To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes.  There is no other way yet.

The government can't function without taxes. If direct taxes are not there, then indirect taxes are required. Only a very few countries have managed to phase out taxes completely. Examples are oil rich countries such as United Arab Emirates, and island nations such as Bermuda and Bahamas. But these countries have other sources of income, and therefore tax revenue is not necessary.

[Mauser]

Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance.  Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion.  All of them were able to exist for a very short time.  The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience.  To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes.  There is no other way yet.

Taxes have been a part of western culture for thousands of years. The weren't called taxes but had different names with the same meaning. You had to give away a part of your production to the lord or king of your area, and in return he offers you protection. In todays world security and protection comes more in a financial form that with soldiers, but police is still an important part of society. Without taxes all these services couldn't be afforded.

[Vaskiy]

Tax-less Society idea won't get implemented in the near future or after long years. Each and every country government function with the tax revenue through different sectors. To the paid tax, there is no proper return or development support from the government. This is where people refuse to pay taxes and prefer the possible ways to overcome the taxation.

[Ucy]

Throughout its historical development, mankind has repeatedly tried to establish a more just model of building social governance.  Many rebellious masses of people and their organizers tried to establish a more just society without taxes and means of coercion.  All of them were able to exist for a very short time.  The current structure of society is the result of thousands of years of accumulated experience.  To finance public needs, able-bodied citizens must contribute in taxes.  There is no other way yet.

I normally see tax as a form of contributions (especially financially) by people for the well-being of their society. It's Just if done and used right. It gives you a sense of belonging knowing that your contributions is used to develop your society and that the society is not owned by people or companies that do all the contributions. 
Tax should be fair though and shouldn't be imposed on people who don't deserve to be taxed.

[Xinarae*]

Since historical times the govt has been imposing taxes on the people. the govt cannot function without taxes. The people are motivated by the budget on the idea of adequate taxes. The damage done to the country by the govt alone can never be recovered. government revenue has decreased, expenditure has increased for this reason, the govt is taking the foremost loans from the banking industry. the govt will spend money on loans by increasing the quantity of interest and VAT.

[Smartprofit]

I have idea for discussion.

How it could work Taxless society:

Independent world deflationary money for storing value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in combination with inflationary digital money from central banks valid only limited time to directly spend (buying goods and services) or you can change to deflationary money (store of value).

With transparent view of circulating supply on blockchain for each country (inflation based on growing population, number of new pensions... in last year or some other time period).

Community interests (healthcare, roads, pensions...) can be financed directly from the part of that emission with limited valid time inflationary money on annual base.

The salary received in inflationary digital money from the moment of receipt must be spent or exchanged for some store of value (bitcoin, litecoin...) in 1 year or will be automaticly exchanged for some independent world "store of value" (bitcoin, litecoin...) upon expiration of time (just example).

After expiration inflatory money would not be worth (will be "burned").

What do you think is this can be done to work?

Can a social society function without taxes?  Probably yes.  

However, for this it is necessary to change the mechanism of distribution of public goods.  Now in most countries the social system is capitalism.  The basis of capitalism is surplus value and credit.  Capitalism needs inflationary money.  

Under capitalism, it is necessary to redistribute public goods from more successful participants in social relations to less successful ones.  This requires a developed tax collection system.

However, capitalism is not the only possible social order.  There is socialism, feudalism, slave society, communism, etc. Some of them allow deflationary assets to be used as the main legal tender.  

It could be Bitcoin, Litecoin, or (for example) gold.

[Josefjix]

Since historical times the govt has been imposing taxes on the people. the govt cannot function without taxes. The people are motivated by the budget on the idea of adequate taxes. The damage done to the country by the govt alone can never be recovered. government revenue has decreased, expenditure has increased for this reason, the govt is taking the foremost loans from the banking industry. the govt will spend money on loans by increasing the quantity of interest and VAT.

This is what I was going to say. The government creates wealth for themselves through the loan and increase VAT for the national populace to pay for deregulation and the OP is hellbent on how taxes should be eliminated from the society? It is actually very impossible. Without the taxes the government can't function by maintaining the expensive lifestyles of a particular place that generates revenue either by tourism or by direct taxations. We'd still be thrilled when cryptocurrencies someday eliminates taxes.

[raidarksword]

Government runs on taxes on people and business entities that also provide contributions that serves as a collective funds for the development of the road and highways, building public schools, hospitals and any government facilities that will give free services to people and it's also needed for calamity funds if any disasters happened in the country. So, I don't think we can have a taxless society because it is necessities and really important on how government can govern the people's needs.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

Government runs on taxes on people and business entities that also provide contributions that serves as a collective funds for the development of the road and highways, building public schools, hospitals and any government facilities that will give free services to people and it's also needed for calamity funds if any disasters happened in the country. So, I don't think we can have a taxless society because it is necessities and really important on how government can govern the people's needs.

Indeed. There is no way for the government to approve or let a taxless society be implemented because without taxes, there will be no free education, free medication in public establishments, and to provide goods and services for the citizens' benefit in a country. Even there are issues about governments stealing from taxes; taxes are still important for every person's daily needs that it is impossible for everyone to live without it.

[iamsheikhadil]

The idea is nice but I don't think it's feasible. Because with inflation, even if the extra amount is used as tax, it will just not be worth as one would not find their output equaling to the input they are giving, as in the economy will go downwards at an individual level. Hence I think the present system of taxation is quite good even if the tax isn't really used in an efficient way which if it was done would have been great.

[STT]

If left up to central banks, they'll just do as they please.

In theory a FIAT standard can hold good for decades but invariably times change and the easiest path is to devalue currency in order to pay bills.    The best bet when in this situation is to rate those most able to pay, a country with a good trade balance and natural assets is more likely to order debts and currency value.   Also its natural for a country that exports alot to have good currency value as there is high demand for that currency in order to take part in trade.    Its very often the case that a country unable to export in equal measure to their imports suffers greatly in the currency and holding that currency or debt denominated in that currency is a bad bet.
   Bitcoin has no backing in this way and its why many doubt and rate it to fail long term but it hasnt happened yet due to excessive failure elsewhere.   If we had harsh competition it would drastically alter the pricing for Bitcoin I think, as the world is in transition now and probably for decades I imagine BTC will be required and do well but its still a fair criticism to say it has no direct link to trade from any particular country but online business is still expanding so Im not as concerned for now.

[BuNga_cute]

It sounds good if we live in a country without taxes, but the reality is that it is difficult to carry out the idea. Because surely the country
must be prosperous and have a large income. So the price of food and goods can be very expensive, so the government can exempt taxes
on its residents. Very rarely countries that do not impose taxes, because indeed tax is an important instrument in advancing the country.
So in my opinion it is appropriate for the country to impose taxes, but its use must be improved, because most countries do not use taxes
efficiently and correctly.

[manfredmann]

Cryptocurrency is not an exemption of being taxless but it could save you from tax compared to using fiat currency. FYI, cryptocurrency still take some deductions every time you make transactions. Well, that is part of the transaction paying service of the miners to confirm transaction making it in accordance with how the transaction will be made that will be agreed to everyone. We know that cryptocurrency is using a certain network which makes it a peer to peer network.

[Firefox07]

Taxless society is just a dream. How can government run a place without tax. How can they support the people's needs and do infrastructure projects. If there is no tax no projects will run.

[oHnK]

Taxless society is just a dream. How can government run a place without tax. How can they support the people's needs and do infrastructure projects. If there is no tax no projects will run.

The idea of a public life without taxes is very often discussed and even becomes the desire of many people, this is also a very old idea. Some people consider taxes to be only a form of extortion from the government, because the government by its policies forms regulations that oblige all citizens to pay taxes. However, without taxes. How can the state be built? OP put forward an idea that looks simple in his writing, but his life is real, it's even very complex. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can save your fortune from taxes for now, maybe it is. However, crypto will not be able to remove worldwide taxes. It's just an impossible dream.

[Nhor1011]

Taxless society is just a dream. How can government run a place without tax. How can they support the people's needs and do infrastructure projects. If there is no tax no projects will run.

Yeah, government is always after the taxes they can get from the people.  So, I will not be surprised if one day bitcoin or cryptocurrency will also be taxed in any way that the government knows.

[inoes]

will that solve the problem? from what I observed you will change your money from fiat to crypto so that it is not taxed. It's not that easy, if you depend your money on crypto assets, what happens if you choose the wrong coin so that the impact of the price drop is greater than the cost of taxes? you will lose. as a good citizen, you should still pay taxes in order to advance the country
CMIIW

[FlightyPouch]

Taxless society is just a dream. How can government run a place without tax. How can they support the people's needs and do infrastructure projects. If there is no tax no projects will run.

It is an essential need of a country, without it, it will never run and develop. It is true that we are using crypto currencies here but I don't think that also means that we don't pay taxes, I have a job and the government are getting taxes from me. I am buying goods which have VAT, all I'm saying is that it is already everywhere, the reason why it is like bitcoin and crypto currencies are the only ones where we can earn freely.

[Sithara007]

Yeah, government is always after the taxes they can get from the people.  So, I will not be surprised if one day bitcoin or cryptocurrency will also be taxed in any way that the government knows.

Apart from a handful of countries, everywhere else you need to pay taxes on their gains from various investments. Cryptocurrency is no different from the other assets, and in case you are profiting form investments in crypto, then you need to pay taxes on those gains, as specified by the tax authority. In this way, the government also benefits from Bitcoin.

[jaysabi]

Taxless society is just a dream. How can government run a place without tax. How can they support the people's needs and do infrastructure projects. If there is no tax no projects will run.

You can't have a taxless society because you can't have an anarchistic society. There are too many people who are inherently mal-intented to rely on the good nature of large groups of people to get along without a government to mete out consequences to the bad actors. Humankind started in a state of anarchy (no government) and government evolved as a necessary part of a stable society.  Without government, you wouldn't have societal stability, and you can't have government without taxes.  Therefore, a taxless society isn't possible in any practical sense.

[pankowri]

Taxless society can be implemented whenever the country fulfill their all the needs. I just want to say that it is just a dream which will never be seen in real life. Because government needs taxes otherwise the operations from government can't work. Government has different ministry and they work for the people. So have need to pay them and they will get it from taxes. Many works rather than this are happening from taxes. Many development works run from taxes money.

[whyrqa]

Despite the fact that This is an old topic, the question is very relevant even today and I would like users to express their opinion on this issue as much as possible.
How the state budget will be filled, as well as at what expense all social guarantees will be carried out, as well as how structures and government services will work if no one are not taxed. Although, ideally, the tax should be paid by businessmen who have bought all strategic enterprises  and use the country's energy resources.

[Spaffin]

Despite the fact that This is an old topic, the question is very relevant even today and I would like users to express their opinion on this issue as much as possible.
How the state budget will be filled, as well as at what expense all social guarantees will be carried out, as well as how structures and government services will work if no one are not taxed. Although, ideally, the tax should be paid by businessmen who have bought all strategic enterprises  and use the country's energy resources.

I believe that this issue requires a fairly serious and thorough discussion. Of course, we all don't like the taxes the government has imposed on us. But most of all, those who are dissatisfied with taxes are those people who live in countries that are still just developing, because people live in poverty, and the state demands to pay for anything and it really infuriates. But there is another side of the coin and As an example, we can cite several countries where taxes are very high, but at the same time social guarantees are at a high level, and wages allow people not only to pay taxes, but also to live like a "real well-off person."

[Mauser]

Despite the fact that This is an old topic, the question is very relevant even today and I would like users to express their opinion on this issue as much as possible.
How the state budget will be filled, as well as at what expense all social guarantees will be carried out, as well as how structures and government services will work if no one are not taxed. Although, ideally, the tax should be paid by businessmen who have bought all strategic enterprises  and use the country's energy resources.

I believe that this issue requires a fairly serious and thorough discussion. Of course, we all don't like the taxes the government has imposed on us. But most of all, those who are dissatisfied with taxes are those people who live in countries that are still just developing, because people live in poverty, and the state demands to pay for anything and it really infuriates. But there is another side of the coin and As an example, we can cite several countries where taxes are very high, but at the same time social guarantees are at a high level, and wages allow people not only to pay taxes, but also to live like a "real well-off person."

Also we need to notice that more and more countries are transforming into socialst countries these days. In a social country the government is getting more and more power, not less at the moment. Even though it sounds nice at first if there will be more benefits for everybody, these benefits don't come for free. Without taxes the government wouldn't really be able to afford all the benefits. This is the main reason why I don't think it is very realistic at the moment to see taxless societies. It might work for a small rich country, but not for everybody.

[Tstar]

Forced spending on government-controlled inflated money is just another form of taxation.

I find it even worse than the current because now you still have places with low or zero taxation.

[DrBeer]

The author's idea is "holy". Just one question - what does the author dislike about the taxation system? There are no ideal models and never will be. The ideal community is UTOPIA. Read works on this topic from Thomas More (Libellus vere aureus, nec minus salutaris quam festivus, de optimo rei publicae statu deque nova insula Utopia) to Marx, Engels, Bloch, Marcuse, Popper ...