[ANN][CATc] Cataloniacoin · Conference soon thanks to a Google dev · SCRYPT-N

[oriolpont]

please understand us too 

We are trying, but that's not very easy sometimes !

There are a lot of interesting points raised by people here. Especially the last one:
Is a Catalan a demonym  or/and ethnicity or/and nationality (i know that all the previous terms are themselves vaguely determined)? Can it be determined by blood or/and soil ? If so what are the current "rules"?

I mean, as our friend "CataloniaCoin" posed a supposedly "idiot-proof example" (i.e. something that doesn't need a lot of explanation and assumes that all the necessary assumptions, for the analysis of the statement, are common sense), of a Chinese guy in Catalonia, i would like to see a little bit clearer definition of a "Catalan" from the creators of the CataloniaCoin. If that even possible of course. 

There is little ambiguity (be it legal or in customary use) in what the definition of Catalan People is. As I mentioned in the previous page:

From the current Statue of Autonomy (regional constitution), article 7:

Spanish citizens legally resident in Catalonia benefit from the political status of Catalans or citizens of Catalonia.

(source: official English version http://www.parlament.cat/porteso/estatut/estatut_angles_100506.pdf)

See also https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condici%C3%B3_pol%C3%ADtica_de_catal%C3%A0 (in Catalan).

All these national crypos out there plan to distribute to citizens only. CataloniaCoin does not need to do the same, but I would not see why not.

[bacoinin]

Spanish citizens legally resident in Catalonia benefit from the political status of Catalans or citizens of Catalonia.

Is it possible for a foreigner to get the same status ? If yes, how long does it take ?

[franckuestein]

you're in a viral thing, lol  

As well, voted! https://www.mintpal.com/voting#CATc

[CataloniaCoin]

you're in a viral thing, lol  

As well, voted! https://www.mintpal.com/voting#CATc

Yes, it seems that Mintpal added this new voting URL that let you go directly to the coin
Thanks for voting! 

[jacob019]

WARNING MingoPool is a SCAM.
I highly suggest that you remove it from the OP.  Take a look over in the 365coin thread.  They stole hundreds of dollars worth of 365 coins.  First they stopped paying out, then a story about upgrades and insisted payouts would be restored on the first, it never happened.  There have been reports from many individuals, I myself lost 0.38 365, worth USD$352 as of this post.  Take a look at their 365 pool, it's full of fake miners from weeks ago, but if you dig past the dashboard and into the pool stats you'll see 0 hash rate.  I even chatted with him on IRC and he assured me that my coins are safe on the 29th.  I can't believe he is listed as the first pool here.  Please remove MingoPool from the OP

[whatsabitworth]

Great article that I just read about the state of Catalonia. Independence should be given to this region if they want it.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/scotland-referendum-catalonia-independence-from-spain

[oriolpont]

Spanish citizens legally resident in Catalonia benefit from the political status of Catalans or citizens of Catalonia.

Is it possible for a foreigner to get the same status ? If yes, how long does it take ?

Yes it is possible through Spanish naturalization, which requires 10-year residency in the most general case.

On the other hand, municipal registries (instead of the civil registry) will probably source the list of voters for November's independence referendum. This means that foreigners who can vote on local elections will be able to exercise their self-determination right and decide the future of Catalonia. Symbolically, this makes them members of the Catalan People by the very definition of popular sovereignty.

[CataloniaCoin]

Great article that I just read about the state of Catalonia. Independence should be given to this region if they want it.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/scotland-referendum-catalonia-independence-from-spain

Thanks for sharing It!  Catalonia wants freedom!

--
As well, jacob019 thanks for your advice! We're going to investigate it and send a message to the mingopool dev, thanks a lot! 

[jordixal]

Your are not alone,  no estàs sol, som molts els catalans interessats en les cryptomonedes i en CATc 

[oriolpont]

https://www.mintpal.com/voting#CATc

I feel i'm voting alone? come on !

----------

Em fa la sensació d'estar votant sol. Cal Espavilar una mica !  

Bon cop de Falç ! Jejeje !

Mintpal could very easily lose or "lose" our coins at any moment. I have nothing against Mintpal in particular, but this (exchanges suddenly disappearing) is happening all the time in cryptoworld.

What is absolutely important is that we concentrate all efforts in avoiding something as the Spaincoin fiasco. Cataloniacoin will only have any value if it reaches thousands of adopters in November's airdrop. For this, we need a POS service with SEPA transfers (thus zero-fee to most) accepting Cataloniacoin. We also need to fork Mycelium for local Cataloniacoin trades (which maybe merchants could use as a POS?).

Having miners outside Catalonia is not a bad idea - they secure the chain after all - but they will be more prominently dumping their minings. Mintpal/cryptsy etc. will only increase this effect.


===================
 Certificate-based generation
===================

A somewhat more radical approach to achieve mass adoption and fair distribution would be to avoid any airdrop at all. You could simply pre-assign an equal share of coins to every person (based on DNI or government-issued certificates): the monetary base will proportionally scale with coin adoption, i.e., no rational reason for speculative hoarding nor for dumping (guaranteed scarcity).

This can be made by relaunching without the premine and with a protocol modification instead: at any block, a coinbase can be generated through proof-of-identity, which is essentially showing an unseen ID number and its valid signature. Fraud is not possible as long as the ID issuer can re-issue certificates but always to the same ID number (yes, Spain is a tightly controlled police state). Theft is possible, but it implies stealing the certificate token and its passphrase (i.e., a full extent identity theft).

Most importantly, we do not need to check for expired or revoked certificates at mining time: we can let some nodes do the DB queries and let them issue proofs of revocation before the coinbase maturity for a small reward (to avoid spam, these proofs of revocation would need to burn some coins and be rewarded only if the miner confirms the revocation; also, blocks include only one such transaction per certificate - the rest are rejected without burning or reward).

Finally, since this already implies a hard fork, I would suggest that Cataloniacoin is relaunched as a Bitcoin sidechain.

edit: "proofs"

[tevayo]

https://www.mintpal.com/voting#CATc

I feel i'm voting alone? come on !

----------

Em fa la sensació d'estar votant sol. Cal Espavilar una mica !  

Bon cop de Falç ! Jejeje !

Mintpal could very easily lose or "lose" our coins at any moment. I have nothing against Mintpal in particular, but this (exchanges suddenly disappearing) is happening all the time in cryptoworld.

What is absolutely important is that we concentrate all efforts in avoiding something as the Spaincoin fiasco. Cataloniacoin will only have any value if it reaches thousands of adopters in November's airdrop. For this, we need a POS service with SEPA transfers (thus zero-fee to most) accepting Cataloniacoin. We also need to fork Mycelium for local Cataloniacoin trades (which maybe merchants could use as a POS?).

Having miners outside Catalonia is not a bad idea - they secure the chain after all - but they will be more prominently dumping their minings. Mintpal/cryptsy etc. will only increase this effect.


===================
 Certificate-based generation
===================

A somewhat more radical approach to achieve mass adoption and fair distribution would be to avoid any airdrop at all. You could simply pre-assign an equal share of coins to every person (based on DNI or government-issued certificates): the monetary base will proportionally scale with coin adoption, i.e., no rational reason for speculative hoarding nor for dumping (guaranteed scarcity).

This can be made by relaunching without the premine and with a protocol modification instead: at any block, a coinbase can be generated through proof-of-identity, which is essentially showing an unseen ID number and its valid signature. Fraud is not possible as long as the ID issuer can re-issue certificates but always to the same ID number (yes, Spain is a tightly controlled police state). Theft is possible, but it implies stealing the certificate token and its passphrase (i.e., a full extent identity theft).

Most importantly, we do not need to check for expired or revoked certificates at mining time: we can let some nodes do the DB queries and let them issue proofs of revocation before the coinbase maturity for a small reward (to avoid spam, these proofs of revocation would need to burn some coins and be rewarded only if the miner confirms the revocation; also, blocks include only one such transaction per certificate - the rest are rejected without burning or reward).

Finally, since this already implies a hard fork, I would suggest that Cataloniacoin is relaunched as a Bitcoin sidechain.

edit: "proofs"

All national altcoins ( auroracoin , spaincoin , greececoin , etc. ) have been a fiasco for the simple reason that when preminadas in full, any investor believes (rightly ) that the millions of coins that are not claimed , will be overturned by the developers. For CATC may have future, it is imperative that a good deal is made, however :
What will happen to the unclaimed you will surely millions ?
I think the only way to gain confidence could donate for safekeeping (not for sale in at least 2 years ) to any such association ANC.
ANC has every confidence the Catalans.
Moreover, it is imperative the adoption by businesses , but that should be listed somewhere ( a trader can not know the selling price of a product , if it has a price tag of some exchange ) .
Over 2 years ago and Altcoins BTCs trade groups, in Bitstamp , BTC -E, Cryptsy , Mintpal , Swiccex and CATC are not any better than me Mintpal exchange occurs .

[oriolpont]

(...)
A somewhat more radical approach to achieve mass adoption and fair distribution would be to avoid any airdrop at all. You could simply pre-assign an equal share of coins to every person (based on DNI or government-issued certificates): the monetary base will proportionally scale with coin adoption, i.e., no rational reason for speculative hoarding nor for dumping (guaranteed scarcity).
(...)

All national altcoins ( auroracoin , spaincoin , greececoin , etc. ) have been a fiasco for the simple reason that when preminadas in full, any investor believes (rightly ) that the millions of coins that are not claimed , will be overturned by the developers. For CATC may have future, it is imperative that a good deal is made, however :
What will happen to the unclaimed you will surely millions ?
I think the only way to gain confidence could donate for safekeeping (not for sale in at least 2 years ) to any such association ANC.
ANC has every confidence the Catalans.
Moreover, it is imperative the adoption by businesses , but that should be listed somewhere ( a trader can not know the selling price of a product , if it has a price tag of some exchange ) .
Over 2 years ago and Altcoins BTCs trade groups, in Bitstamp , BTC -E, Cryptsy , Mintpal , Swiccex and CATC are not any better than me Mintpal exchange occurs .

Apparently you agree with me: the premine (and its dumping in the market) is the issue. That is precisely what my proposal addresses; please read it again: coins will not be premined or airdropped, just issued to new IDs as people join the network. The number of coins per (Catalan-)user stays constant (there is only a slight per-user inflation in the fact that some will inherit coins from the deceased).

Of course, scarcity alone does not give coins any value. We need massive merchant adoption, or ability to exchange at least (that is why I propose a fork of mycelium with local trades). Also, we do not actually need any mining at all: we can secure the network through proof of stake or Bitcoin side-chain pegging.

These aspects lead to yet a further iteration of my proposal. CATc could be made a nationwide LETS using the ripple protocol (mastercoin, counterparty, if you prefer). We already have a police state with unique IDs: why not at least take advantage of it? This would be not different from the current CATc design: in any case, you surrender your anonymity when you claim your share of coins. The advantage with ripple (or the others) is that you have a decentralized exchange implemented in the protocol itself and this is the first step in making the coin valuable.

[crazycoin798]

may be the dev is good, but the coin should be let more pepole involed

[nuclearjoker]

Hi Everyone:

https://comkort.com/vote/#CATC

We can vote for CATC there now too 

[tevayo]

A more radical approach to achieving widespread adoption and equitable distribution would avoid any airdrop at all. You just can pre-allocate an equal share of coins for each person (based on certificates of ID or government issued): the monetary base proportionately scale by adopting the currency, ie, with no rational reason speculative or dumping (guaranteed scarcity) hoarding.

Right, sorry for the confusion.

Another issue on which I disagree, is to be distributed only among those born in Catalonia, I have many friends not born in Catalonia residing here for many years and want this land as much as we (most of them even are independence) and I can not seem discriminatory access CATC.
Greetings.

[deephouse]

Note: Don't mine with Mingopool.com

Mingopool Dev has been stealing coins on other alt currencies.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492311.1840

Op, remove his from the mining pool list if his pool has been added.

[PoolMingo]

Joder que asco de penya

[Amalker]

when distribution will starts!

[devvienuis]

may be the dev is good, but the coin should be let more pepole involed

Well it looks the Devs are not responding anymore... Look around; they dropped death quiet all of a sudden. Bounties yet to be payed, same for giveaway.

I wanna give them the benefits of the doubt, but it does not look good. RL emergencies set aside, this coin died already without the community knowing it yet.

@Cataloniacoin: hope you are healthy, please contradict my paranoia

http://twitter.com/devnullius

[niothor]

may be the dev is good, but the coin should be let more pepole involed

Well it looks the Devs are not responding anymore... Look around; they dropped death quiet all of a sudden. Bounties yet to be payed, same for giveaway.

I wanna give them the benefits of the doubt, but it does not look good. RL emergencies set aside, this coin died already without the community knowing it yet.

@Cataloniacoin: hope you are healthy, please contradict my paranoia

http://twitter.com/devnullius

No paranoia , 10 posts in 10 days in the coin thread .. it seems the enthusiasm is dying.
Also , all the nation coins are doing just as bad as this one.