Religion of Peace? Why Religion At All

[gabmen]

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.

God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Killing each other is not what God wanted, even when we don't know much about Him, or even recognize the same god as others believe in. Any killing has to do with getting rid of people who are so extremely evil that they are wrecking society for everyone. But we have governments to do this.

As for God creating mankind... We don't know much of the thinking of God. If God, for His own purposes, created mankind, say, to rule the universe, or to colonize other worlds, how would we know except if He made that knowledge available to us?

If people had remained in perfection (Garden of Eden) so that they never died, populating other planets is exactly the thing that God might have wanted. After all, when populations on Earth are so great that there is standing room only - and such is what would have happened if there were no sin and death, and especially if everything had remained as healthy as it was in the beginning, people would populate faster than rabbits - where would they go just to live?

God hasn't revealed the plan that He had for us at the beginning. Why not? Because we sinned, and death entered. The whole scene changed. Population no longer has to do with going to the stars. Rather, it has to do with finding a way out of death. And not out of death for those who are still alive, but out of death for all who have died, as well.

Take a look at Ancient Israel in Exodus in the Bible. Israel was going to the Promised Land. When they got to the borders, they rebelled, and didn't enter in like God wanted them to. So, God told them that they would have to spend some time (40 years) wandering around in the wilderness. But then they tried to go into the Promised Land anyway. And a bunch of them died for it.

Now, we are trying to go into space, to populate the moon and Mars. This might have been the plan in the beginning, but mankind changed the plan by sinning. It won't work... populating Mars. A bunch of people died trying for the Promised Land in the Exodus, and they will die trying for Mars.

The point? If there are aliens out there, they are only there to maintain the planets until mankind would get there. But we don't know that they are even there.

The thing we should be doing is working with God in His method for us to live forever, and to even bring back life to all those who have died. What is this method? Jesus salvation!

You're basing this from a book that was compiled less than 1500 years ago. And the final product was decided by people like you and me who actually had power at that time. This should clearly be something to be considered, right?


And again, I come to the scale I'm talking about. The universe. Believed to have started billions of years ago. If you have the power to create something of that scale, would you seriously focus on what a certain specie is doing, who they're worshipping, what they were thinking etc? Seems quite petty for someone who's that powerful, right?


And I don't think you're serious about aliens taking care of other planets for until such a time that humans can go there lol.

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[BADecker]

Killing each other is not what God wanted, even when we don't know much about Him, or even recognize the same god as others believe in. Any killing has to do with getting rid of people who are so extremely evil that they are wrecking society for everyone. But we have governments to do this.

As for God creating mankind... We don't know much of the thinking of God. If God, for His own purposes, created mankind, say, to rule the universe, or to colonize other worlds, how would we know except if He made that knowledge available to us?

If people had remained in perfection (Garden of Eden) so that they never died, populating other planets is exactly the thing that God might have wanted. After all, when populations on Earth are so great that there is standing room only - and such is what would have happened if there were no sin and death, and especially if everything had remained as healthy as it was in the beginning, people would populate faster than rabbits - where would they go just to live?

God hasn't revealed the plan that He had for us at the beginning. Why not? Because we sinned, and death entered. The whole scene changed. Population no longer has to do with going to the stars. Rather, it has to do with finding a way out of death. And not out of death for those who are still alive, but out of death for all who have died, as well.

Take a look at Ancient Israel in Exodus in the Bible. Israel was going to the Promised Land. When they got to the borders, they rebelled, and didn't enter in like God wanted them to. So, God told them that they would have to spend some time (40 years) wandering around in the wilderness. But then they tried to go into the Promised Land anyway. And a bunch of them died for it.

Now, we are trying to go into space, to populate the moon and Mars. This might have been the plan in the beginning, but mankind changed the plan by sinning. It won't work... populating Mars. A bunch of people died trying for the Promised Land in the Exodus, and they will die trying for Mars.

The point? If there are aliens out there, they are only there to maintain the planets until mankind would get there. But we don't know that they are even there.

The thing we should be doing is working with God in His method for us to live forever, and to even bring back life to all those who have died. What is this method? Jesus salvation!

You're basing this from a book that was compiled less than 1500 years ago. And the final product was decided by people like you and me who actually had power at that time. This should clearly be something to be considered, right?


And again, I come to the scale I'm talking about. The universe. Believed to have started billions of years ago. If you have the power to create something of that scale, would you seriously focus on what a certain specie is doing, who they're worshipping, what they were thinking etc? Seems quite petty for someone who's that powerful, right?


And I don't think you're serious about aliens taking care of other planets for until such a time that humans can go there lol.

But, try thinking a little more. Here's some more thoughts.

1. The book compilation had other writings considered. These other writings don't change the book regarding the way we are talking. In addition, the compilation was done to clarify what was the truth. It was done by comparing the basics of the Hebrew canon with the Books that would go into the New Testament, and with the Apocrypha. Books that added things that weren't supported by the canon were left out. Books that had items that weren't verified by other N.T. books were left out of the N.T.  The process was meticulously done.

2. The universe is believed to have started about 6,000 years ago by many. The fact that others believe it to have started billions of years ago, shows that they have a religious belief. Pick your religion.

3. If I have the power to create something on the scale of the universe, how in the world can something as tiny as you second guess me or what I have in mind? My thoughts would be way beyond yours... to say nothing about the fact that you can't even read the minds of your fellow humans.

4. God says in the writings he authorized, that His focus in creation was making and supporting mankind.

5. The Bible talks about 13 classes of angels. Some of them take care of the forces in the whole of outer space - the universe. --- Look in the Revelation for the part about the Dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky. The standard understanding is that these stars were angels. Satan, the Dragon, the Devil, whose name means Destroyer (in Revelation), thought that taking a third of the supporting angels out of the universe, would certainly destroy the universe. What He found out is that the whole universe is upheld by God... through the angels, or not through them.

6. The idea of humans going to space is my idea. But consider the context of it. If people had remained perfect, and never died, it wouldn't really take long for standing room only to be achieved on Earth... and faster than ever considering how healthy the earth was back then.

But thanks for giving me the chance to explain some of these things.

[af_newbie]

...

But, try thinking a little more. Here's some more thoughts.

1. The book compilation had other writings considered. These other writings don't change the book regarding the way we are talking. In addition, the compilation was done to clarify what was the truth. It was done by comparing the basics of the Hebrew canon with the Books that would go into the New Testament, and with the Apocrypha. Books that added things that weren't supported by the canon were left out. Books that had items that weren't verified by other N.T. books were left out of the N.T.  The process was meticulously done.

2. The universe is believed to have started about 6,000 years ago by many. The fact that others believe it to have started billions of years ago, shows that they have a religious belief. Pick your religion.

3. If I have the power to create something on the scale of the universe, how in the world can something as tiny as you second guess me or what I have in mind? My thoughts would be way beyond yours... to say nothing about the fact that you can't even read the minds of your fellow humans.

4. God says in the writings he authorized, that His focus in creation was making and supporting mankind.

5. The Bible talks about 13 classes of angels. Some of them take care of the forces in the whole of outer space - the universe. --- Look in the Revelation for the part about the Dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky. The standard understanding is that these stars were angels. Satan, the Dragon, the Devil, whose name means Destroyer (in Revelation), thought that taking a third of the supporting angels out of the universe, would certainly destroy the universe. What He found out is that the whole universe is upheld by God... through the angels, or not through them.

6. The idea of humans going to space is my idea. But consider the context of it. If people had remained perfect, and never died, it wouldn't really take long for standing room only to be achieved on Earth... and faster than ever considering how healthy the earth was back then.

But thanks for giving me the chance to explain some of these things.

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

[BADecker]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

[af_newbie]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

And we are back to mythological nonsense. 

[BADecker]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

And we are back to mythological nonsense.  

You carry your mythological nonsense with you wherever you go... that God doesn't exist.

(Btw, you didn't place a question mark at the end of your question.)

[af_newbie]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

And we are back to mythological nonsense.  

You carry your mythological nonsense with you wherever you go... that God doesn't exist.

(Btw, you didn't place a question mark at the end of your question.)

Your world view is really warped.  Satan? Satanist?  Denying that God exists?

I am speechless.  What is next, warlocks and witches?

I did not know that some Christians can be so demented.

Dude, I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "God" or "Satan". 
Those are mythological terms used by primitive people to describe unknowns in this world.
 
Are you this ignorant that you need ancient mythology to make sense of this world?

Truly unbelievable.

BTW, I don't believe any of the characters from your Bible exist in real life. 
It is all fiction, Gods, Satans, unicorns, and dragons included.

[DaftAjax]

<....>

Your world view is really warped.  Satan? Satanist?  Denying that God exists?

I am speechless.  What is next, warlocks and witches?

I did not know that some Christians can be so demented.

Dude, I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "God" or "Satan". 
Those are mythological terms used by primitive people to describe unknowns in this world.
 
Are you this ignorant that you need ancient mythology to make sense of this world?

Truly unbelievable.

BTW, I don't believe any of the characters from your Bible exist in real life. 
It is all fiction, Gods, Satans, unicorns, and dragons included.

Well, I guess my theory has been proven. BADecker, it's definitely "your" words, not "His".

Well, my friend af_newbie, it turns out that if you don't agree, or should I say, you're not aligned by their religion, you'll be branded as "anti-Christ". And if you talk against them you're considered as the "devil"--"satan" even.

On that note, who are you (BADecker) to judge? People are entitled to their own opinion, but then again most of what he said was facts actually.

[BADecker]

<....>

Your world view is really warped.  Satan? Satanist?  Denying that God exists?

I am speechless.  What is next, warlocks and witches?

I did not know that some Christians can be so demented.

Dude, I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "God" or "Satan". 
Those are mythological terms used by primitive people to describe unknowns in this world.
 
Are you this ignorant that you need ancient mythology to make sense of this world?

Truly unbelievable.

BTW, I don't believe any of the characters from your Bible exist in real life. 
It is all fiction, Gods, Satans, unicorns, and dragons included.

Well, I guess my theory has been proven. BADecker, it's definitely "your" words, not "His".

Well, my friend af_newbie, it turns out that if you don't agree, or should I say, you're not aligned by their religion, you'll be branded as "anti-Christ". And if you talk against them you're considered as the "devil"--"satan" even.

On that note, who are you (BADecker) to judge? People are entitled to their own opinion, but then again most of what he said was facts actually.

It's probably your hunt-and-peck typing ability that makes it so you can't express yourself very well through what you post.