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[Kluge]

Should TyGrr Tech hold 50% of income to invest in future hardware?   

Yea votes: 399
Nay votes: 73

Should TyGrr Tech create and sell 150 new shares at 3BTC each to raise capital for either FPGAs or 7990s. Second vote to be had later if this one is successful.

Yea votes: 430
Nay votes: 55


Looks like both have passed. I will start holding 50% of the dividends and I will start selling the 150 new shares ate 3BTC each.

If you would like to help fund the expansion please buy these directly from me. You will send me the BTC and then I will transfer them into your account.

Thank you.

Bump for GLBSE 2 being up and running. Just to re-enforce - aftermarket shares do not help expansion. Buying IPO shares from Goat helps expand, increasing dividends & "should" increase share price down the road.

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[brendio]

Just to re-enforce - aftermarket shares do not help expansion. Buying IPO shares from Goat helps expand, increasing dividends & "should" increase share price down the road.

But what rational investor pays more for shares than the price the market is offering? I'm not complaining if people do, because it increases the value backing of shares for existing shareholders, but it seems illogical.

[mila]

Just to re-enforce - aftermarket shares do not help expansion. Buying IPO shares from Goat helps expand, increasing dividends & "should" increase share price down the road.

But what rational investor pays more for shares than the price the market is offering? I'm not complaining if people do, because it increases the value backing of shares for existing shareholders, but it seems illogical.

from a (theoretical) fund manager point of view it might be almost a criminal offense to buy the same share at a much higher price than market offers (clause about effective management of trusted wealth) and the day GLBSE 2.0 went live there were a handful of trades in range 1.0-2.0 btc per share. illogical and moral dilemma. is the fund share owners best interest to get more shares for the same price or to sponsor the growth (and maybe diversification) of the operation and give free ride to others?
should not be the new shares offered at a discount? 2.60 maybe? goat wrote somewhere he would buy them back at 10 us$ each. I did not made up my mind yet, came here to discuss things. imho with current setup it would take either longer to raise the funds or I'm completely wrong and someone will buy 1500, 1200 or all 150 shares the day they will be offered. I don't have other practical experience with primary vs secondary market trading beside glbse.
goat also mentions that the rigs have high resell value as gaming pcs. if the trend says fpga mining is the new tulip mania, let's raise a motion to see if fpga boards could be purchased from gpu sales : ) if new shares @3.00 will not sell

[Kluge]

Just to re-enforce - aftermarket shares do not help expansion. Buying IPO shares from Goat helps expand, increasing dividends & "should" increase share price down the road.

But what rational investor pays more for shares than the price the market is offering? I'm not complaining if people do, because it increases the value backing of shares for existing shareholders, but it seems illogical.

It increases the value of what they purchase. If aftermarket shares cost ฿1.2 compared to an IPO share for ฿3, then yeah, that'd be pretty irrational. If aftermarket shares cost ฿2.9 or ฿2.8 (I think we were often @ ฿2.74 in the past few weeks) or something compared to ฿3 IPO shares, then I think it'd be pretty reasonable to assume that if you're making a large-ish buy, it makes sense to buy from Goat because the gains from increased dividends, and the increased share price from increased dividends, and the increased equity of the stock justifies spending a smidgen more up-front.

If the aftermarket shares are consistently and significantly below the price of IPO shares, then IPO shares are being sold for too much (or not enough effort is being put in drumming up demand).

[Nefario]

Just to re-enforce - aftermarket shares do not help expansion. Buying IPO shares from Goat helps expand, increasing dividends & "should" increase share price down the road.

But what rational investor pays more for shares than the price the market is offering? I'm not complaining if people do, because it increases the value backing of shares for existing shareholders, but it seems illogical.

Yup. I'm interested on your thoughts on how to solve this problem. So far no one has contacted me about wanting to buy. We might just have to wait until the stock price naturally moves up :/

This sort of thing happened before when GLBSE 1.0 started, the asset seller said "OK guys, now were selling shares for 1BTC each" (they had had a vote on deciding the new share price).

They put up their shares for sale, at 1BTC each, the result was others on the market put theirs up for sale at 0.99999BTC

The issuer wasn't happy, then said "OK contact me personally and I'll sell you the shares at 1BTC each, this stupid market thing keeps undermining me".  No one contacted him.

The reality is you can't MAKE people buy your shares for the price you want if others are willing to sell for less. You can try to sell outside the market but why would anyone want to buy from you when they can get it cheaper from the market?

This isn't a GLBSE specific issue, this is a market issue. You have a few choices

1)Don't sell any more shares, and just focus on paying out dividends, result - share price will go up (maybe sell more shares later)

2) Sell shares for less than what you sold before, this will piss off your shareholders who bought for higher prices.

3)Create a new class of share which gets higher dividends (you should also only sell a limited quantity of these).

Thats about it, market rules, end of story.

On a related note, GLBSE.com is back up, should have fixed the problems.

Nefario.

[nrd525]

If you want to see the share price go up, don't pay out dividends. 

Accumulate capital and the corporate value per share will increase.  This could be done as a short term measure (say for a month or two).

[stochastic]

If you want to see the share price go up, don't pay out dividends. 

Accumulate capital and the corporate value per share will increase.  This could be done as a short term measure (say for a month or two).

I voted yes to cut dividends to 50% and voted no to issue more shares, but someone bought me out and both motions passed.  I assumed they wanted to change the vote as I made enough to cover months of dividends.

[The00Dustin]

goat also mentions that the rigs have high resell value as gaming pcs. if the trend says fpga mining is the new tulip mania, let's raise a motion to see if fpga boards could be purchased from gpu sales : ) if new shares @3.00 will not sell

I also thought about suggesting this, but he doesn't seem to think that a 10 for 1 split would make sense or increase share value (and the assets I can suggest for comparison with lower per share value (but massive liquidity / demand) don't prove anything, as they are different [fpga.contract {fpga mining vs gpu mining} and tygrr-bank {weekly interest unheard of absent hyper-inflation}]), and I figure selling GPUs would be less logical than a split until they are unprofitable (at which point they may not be as valuable with more people selling GPUs), but perhaps I will be proving wrong.

[mila]

@The00Dustin I was thinking about swapping GPU rigs for FPGA only if they can be sold to gamers at a price close to fair, just as means of rising capital if new shares won't sell good. As long as they yield profit it would not make much sense to do anything with them other then keep them mining.
on the other hand swapping TyGrr stock 1:10 to ease liquidity could help keep the price less volatile (/me is noob investor, read with caution)

[The00Dustin]

@Mila: I was thinking the same thing, but didn't bother to suggest it because I don't think Goat will want to.  I was thinking this because he believes better FPGAs than the BFL singles will arrive quickly, but our brains (mine vs goats) could work in opposite ways, so there may be a motion on selling GPUs, we will see.  Selling GPUs and buying FPGAs with the income would decrease the earnings per share, but would also decrease electrical costs.  I don't know how this would affect the dividend, but if share price isn't preventing small investors from getting in (leaving large ones who want out undercutting one another because there aren't many large ones), then switching to FPGAs may not be a problem even if it lowered the dividend, as investors may see more long-term value in FPGAs (in spit of the fact that we don't know how quickly the FPGAs might fail).  My feeling is that investor logic won't do a lot of good in GLBSE yet, as very few people have that much faith in BTC, so, for instance, the passed motion to keep half of the dividend may drive prices down even faster in spite of the fact that the shares will have more intrinsic value, but that doesn't mean that treating the shares like a true investable security doesn't make sense and won't be beneficial in the long run.

[Kluge]

The group buy-in of Icarus boards had them pretty cheap, but it seems they were all snapped up within 24 hours of the thread being posted. 

I think the producer might still be willing to sell bulk orders of 30+ units... Probably would require at least $14k, though. His newer models are coming out in a few months. Dunno how they compare as far as $/MH.

[Red Emerald]

I think there will be something better than BFL in May and something maybe 100x better this summer. If we sell GPUs now and buy BFL we can't resell the BFL later. We will be stuck. Sooner or later we will need to convert but I do not think now is the right time. GPUs will keep most of their value so no need to rush.

I fully agree.

[JL421]

"Not enough bitcoin available, cancel some buy orders or deposit more"

I'm getting this error on GLBSE when I tired to pay you guys 10.4 BTC with over 100BTC in my account.

I was able to pay out TYGRR-BANK so I think I hit a bug. Let me e-mail GLBSE support.

You might want to read this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60489.msg820365#msg820365

and this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60489.msg820732#msg820732

[Nefario]

Yeah the process that processes deposits had died,all should be there now.

[gewure]

goat, can you do a evaluation of the approximate value, the company holds right now? (~hardware value, cash, bitcoin)

[Kluge]

Current Asset Liquidation (Very!)Rough Valuation:
GPUs
5770x2 = $150
5830x7 = $630
5850x16 = $2080
5970x1 = $300
6990x2 = $1160
7970sx3 = $1425
GPU total: $5,745

PSUs
Dunno make&model, so I'll assume they can all be sold @ roughly $50 each (less 250w). 8*50=$400

CPUs
555 = $90
955x5 = $500
2120x2 = $210
CPU total: $800

MoBos
Assuming $60 each. 8*60=$480

RAM
$15x16=$240

HDD
$75x8=$600

Case
$55x2=$110 -- non-HAF's excluded

DVD Drives
$10*8=$80

Misc
5x UPS systems (dunno make&model), $50*5=$250
10.4BTC = $50



Totals:
GPUs - $4,320
PSUs - $400
CPUs - $800
MoBos - $480
RAM - $240
HDDs - $600
Cases - $110
DVD drives - $80
Misc - $300

Grand Total: $8,755 (reasonable estimate: $6,750-$9,750)
Idunno current hardware beyond what's in the second post (might be in thread, too lazy to look through it).

Cheers.

[Kluge]

Yeah, that is a bit outdated and also, how could you forget the 3x 7970s!  lol.

Fixed!  Haven't had my coffee, yet.

[antirack]

You may want to put an inventory list / asset list on Google Docs or something, that can be updated in the future. Just sayin

[antirack]

You should hire a good looking personal assistant, as CEO you deserve one

[Kluge]

If ever implemented in GLBSE, a stock split would be nice. Triple the stocks out there, everyone's shares increase proportionally (3x what they currently hold). People can buy into GLBSE with less. As the purpose of GLBSE is to introduce investing opportunities to the public without extra overhead, it makes sense to make the stocks as accessible as possible, which includes pricing them low enough for the skeptical or BTC-poor to grab a share or two.