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Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

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Nefario
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April 05, 2012, 05:48:48 PM
 #201

OK, I guess I'm defending Goat now...

I don't believe Goat is running a ponzi scheme.  He is running pass-thru operations to his First Pirate Savings & Trust account.  While that doesn't make him a scammer, it does make him a liar.  He's getting a higher % off his investor's BTC than he is paying out and since his operations are make believe, that can make tracking dividends and such difficult (what a tangled web we weave when we aspire to deceive).  I also don't believe he is in Thailand.  His avatar looks like a poorly photoshopped job (see black shirt on black background) and he appears to be selling honey using a 3rd party in Thailand to make it appear that he is located somewhere that he is not.  A simple 10 second video of him and his wife with some honey in Thailand would show me that I am wrong, but he doesn't want to do this for some reason.  That is why I worry about the potential of him disappearing.  He also has expressed fear in regards to Shakaru's situation of having a bounty hunter sent after him and refuses to provide the GLBSE with his identity documents.  Ask yourself this, would someone who is running an operation the size of Goat's claim, with multiple listings on the GLBSE and even larger outside projects, spend their time visiting bee farms in Thailand to sell honey for next to nothing to raise funds to be a donator?  It just doesn't add up.  Is Goat running a ponzi scheme?  I don't think so.  Is Goat a liar who cannot be trusted?  Yes.  That doesn't mean he will scam everyone, it just means he's a liar.  If you are comfortable doing business with a liar, buy his shares and enjoy the ride.  If not, don't.  I think it is that simple.

I haven't seen Goat's ID documents but Kluge has, and has told me that they all seem legit.

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April 05, 2012, 06:00:33 PM
 #202

I haven't seen Goat's ID documents but Kluge has, and has told me that they all seem legit.

Never understood why you allowed that to happen...
Also don't understand why Goat said you wanted to freeze his BTC and USD even outside GLBSE. Been waiting for you to say this is a lie, but given that you didn't I'm inclined to believe in Goat.


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April 05, 2012, 06:04:32 PM
 #203

I haven't seen Goat's ID documents but Kluge has, and has told me that they all seem legit.

Never understood why you allowed that to happen...
Also don't understand why Goat said you wanted to freeze his BTC and USD even outside GLBSE. Been waiting for you to say this is a lie, but given that you didn't I'm inclined to believe in Goat.


That's what the shareholders wanted, we wanted the situation to be solved quickly and that was the easiest way maybe not the best but it was at least solved. It has already been stated that Nefario can not be hold responsable for anything that happens after this, he has given the shareholders his warning we chose not to listen to him.
//DeaDTerra
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April 05, 2012, 06:09:20 PM
 #204

I haven't seen Goat's ID documents but Kluge has, and has told me that they all seem legit.

Never understood why you allowed that to happen...
Also don't understand why Goat said you wanted to freeze his BTC and USD even outside GLBSE. Been waiting for you to say this is a lie, but given that you didn't I'm inclined to believe in Goat.
I'd be more inclined to say that goat has forced me to change how I do things, especially what I say on the forums.

I will be making a statement on this later.

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April 05, 2012, 06:09:53 PM
 #205

I haven't seen Goat's ID documents but Kluge has, and has told me that they all seem legit.

Never understood why you allowed that to happen...
Also don't understand why Goat said you wanted to freeze his BTC and USD even outside GLBSE. Been waiting for you to say this is a lie, but given that you didn't I'm inclined to believe in Goat.


That's what the shareholders wanted, we wanted the situation to be solved quickly and that was the easiest way maybe not the best but it was at least solved. It has already been stated that Nefario can not be hold responsable for anything that happens after this, he has given the shareholders his warning we chose not to listen to him.
//DeaDTerra

That's still not a reasonable reason for Nefario to allow it... sorry...

I'd be more inclined to say that goat has forced me to change how I do things, especially what I say on the forums.

I will be making a statement on this later.

I can understand your lack of a statement on the matter.
I'm still finding very funny the fact that Goat never cared that GLBSE wasn't a registered company when he used it to collect funding but when you asked him for ID verification it suddenly started to be a huge problem Wink
EDIT: I hope you are ready for that argument to be brought to light every time you do the same thing...

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April 05, 2012, 06:16:06 PM
 #206

OK, I guess I'm defending Goat now...

I don't believe Goat is running a ponzi scheme.  He is running pass-thru operations to his First Pirate Savings & Trust account. While that doesn't make him a scammer, it does make him a liar.  He's getting a higher % off his investor's BTC than he is paying out and since his operations are make believe, that can make tracking dividends and such difficult (what a tangled web we weave when we aspire to deceive). 


That's a silly accusation. Most of the banks do that. What's the interest rate that savings pays now in US? 1%? LOL they invest into some muni bonds at 8% and pocket the 7% difference.

I also don't believe he is in Thailand.  His avatar looks like a poorly photoshopped job (see black shirt on black background) and he appears to be selling honey using a 3rd party in Thailand to make it appear that he is located somewhere that he is not.  A simple 10 second video of him and his wife with some honey in Thailand would show me that I am wrong, but he doesn't want to do this for some reason.  That is why I worry about the potential of him disappearing.  He also has expressed fear in regards to Shakaru's situation of having a bounty hunter sent after him and refuses to provide the GLBSE with his identity documents.  Ask yourself this, would someone who is running an operation the size of Goat's claim, with multiple listings on the GLBSE and even larger outside projects, spend their time visiting bee farms in Thailand to sell honey for next to nothing to raise funds to be a donator?  It just doesn't add up.  Is Goat running a ponzi scheme?  I don't think so.  Is Goat a liar who cannot be trusted?  Yes.  That doesn't mean he will scam everyone, it just means he's a liar.  If you are comfortable doing business with a liar, buy his shares and enjoy the ride.  If not, don't.  I think it is that simple.

Kluge has his ID,  and looks like it checked out... So it's a mute point.
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April 05, 2012, 06:20:02 PM
 #207

You saw all the math above about mining, right?  I guess you believe its all fake numbers

I believe Goat has admitted as much.
He didnt use the word fake though, I dont remember what he used, "theoretical", I believe? The dividends he pays for his mining company are not based on actual costs and revenue, as he said, he just uses an online mining calculator to calculate what it should earn in theory and bases his payout on that. So yeah, those numbers are indeed pretty fake.

Ill leave it to you to decide whether thats because:

A) His farm isnt making as much as what it should in theory, and he is paying shareholders out of his pocket to compensate them for downtime and so give them dividends they dont deserve, calculated on non existing profits (and costs?). I believe thats the official claim
B) he is using his mining rigs on his own Project 2 hopping proxy and GPUmax and is getting much more than what the mining calculator estimates and he just pockets the difference.
C) Ponzi.
D) something else

edit: link to goats statement:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52081.msg773315#msg773315

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April 05, 2012, 06:35:30 PM
 #208

Kluge has his ID,  and looks like it checked out... So it's a mute point.

Stop reeling me back in!  Kluge never stated the ID shows a Thai address.  Him saying "I've seen it" doesn't mean anything, a moot point. Mute point?  WTF is that?  If you are a TyGrr shareholder, see above, these are your peers...

What Kluge sent me...part of

Quote
I've received the ID documents from Goat (passport, work permit, student ID, some type of bill [I don't read uhhh... Thai -- it's called Thai, right?]). They all look legit, and I went a step further and did some snooping on my own. The dates on his documents match up

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April 05, 2012, 06:40:01 PM
 #209

I haven't seen Goat's ID documents but Kluge has, and has told me that they all seem legit.

Did Kluge say what address was on the documents?  Is it a Thai address or a US address?  Is Kluge a holder of shares in any of Goat's listings?
I hold ~1.3k BTC in Goat's various projects (Nef has verified this). The images are very high-res. His nationality is marked as "American" (in English), but holds a work permit for Thailand. His employer is probably in Thailand (give me a few minutes to convert the image to text, then to English -- I already did this with some of the info prior to giving the green light to Nefario). I will not be releasing the address unless Goat defaults or disappears for an extended period of time (instead, I'll give an "It's in Thailand" or "It's not in Thailand" answer). I only still have these files because I forgot to delete the non-encrypted email and retrieved it. After this, I'm deleting everything but the container which only Nefario will have the password for. However, I'll convert all the images to text, translate to English, include them in the encrypted container which Nefario has the password for, then delete everything of Goat's outside that encrypted container.

Cheers,

Ben

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April 05, 2012, 06:46:14 PM
 #210

SOMEBODY STOP ME!

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April 05, 2012, 06:47:37 PM
 #211

I hold ~1.3k BTC in Goat's various projects (Nef has verified this).

Thank you for being honest.  This conflict of interest should not be acceptable to anyone.  Why do I feel like I'm the only person here with any kind of experience trading public securities?

AND WHY CAN'T I LEAVE THIS THREAD ALONE AND IGNORE GOAT'S LIES?!?!  It's like I'm turning into the Bitcoin police or something.  Somebody stop me!
Hands up! The cake Goat is a lie! Grin

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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April 05, 2012, 06:53:11 PM
 #212

I hold ~1.3k BTC in Goat's various projects (Nef has verified this).

Thank you for being honest.  This conflict of interest should not be acceptable to anyone.  Why do I feel like I'm the only person here with any kind of experience trading public securities?

AND WHY CAN'T I LEAVE THIS THREAD ALONE AND IGNORE GOAT'S LIES?!?!  It's like I'm turning into the Bitcoin police or something.  Somebody stop me!
How is it a conflict of interest? I told Goat this prior to him accepting our agreement. If Goat were to release my PMs, you'd know I'm eager to see the price of his assets fall so I can purchase them. I live in the US and have given Nefario my own ID. I'm still investing fair sums of money in Goat. If you count a personal loan to him, I have about 1.5k BTC with him. With as much at stake as I have (contrary to what znort may think  Wink), I believe I'm one of the most interested people in whether or not he's legitimate. I believe he is, the money is going toward what he says it is (he does have an account with Pirate in excess of 2k BTC, though that was put in there a long time ago, and as we lenders know where everyone ranks as having the most deposited with Pirate, am pretty sure Goat hasn't been significantly increasing his stake).

Also worth noting Goat has proven he has the hashing power of TyGrr Tech (and implied equipment, though I guess he could just be redirecting hashes from "Project #2" -- I'm not sure which was created first).


ETA: And yes, after converting image to pdf, then running through an OCR reader which picks up Thai, it does seem Goat is employed in Thailand, and has a now-understandably good knowledge of local beaches. Wink -- I'll be converting the remaining documents to text, saving to the encrypted folder, then deleting them (less in the encrypted folder). If I find an address, I'll update to say I know which country he currently lives in.

ETA2: The OCR is not picking up the ID cards well. I'm having to edit a lot of the characters manually after trying to clean the image up so the OCR software can grab it more easily. This is taking a looooong time without a Thai keyboard. I suspect it will take multiple days to finish, though the OCR software has less problem with the work permit. That said, the Thai language has some nifty-looking characters. I especially like the ornate "u" with a taco over it.... safety pin, taco u, double cart-legs.... I really feel like I'm learning something here. ETA3: I'll be asking Goat to translate some of this for me. I'm having a Hell of a time locating a "u with a loop-de-loop over it on the right side" in the character map just for the transliteration.

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April 06, 2012, 12:36:51 AM
 #213

Quote from: OgNasty
The community was warned, Nefario tried his best to stop Goat from scamming everyone and alerted his shareholders.  No investor at this point can be angry when this goes bad.

I also have been given doxx by Goat, it is legit.

Was his address a Thai address or a US address?  Notice how nobody will answer this question because everything I have stated is true.  He is a liar with a photoshopped avatar and is selling honey using a 3rd party to convince people he is in Thailand so that when it goes bad he will feel safe in his Mom's basement.  

Edit:  I wish I could stop responding but I just have a thing for liars.

Why are you on such a crusade against Goat? Shouldn't a higher standard of proof be required before we start throwing the word "scam" around on this forum? Every other thread has one guy calling another guy a scammer on it. I know there are actually a lot of scams going on, but most of these scam accusations (not just yours) don't seem to have any evidence backing them.
That's exactly the kind of mindset a scammer would promote.... o.O

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April 06, 2012, 02:29:02 AM
 #214

Quote from: OgNasty
The community was warned, Nefario tried his best to stop Goat from scamming everyone and alerted his shareholders.  No investor at this point can be angry when this goes bad.

I also have been given doxx by Goat, it is legit.

Was his address a Thai address or a US address?  Notice how nobody will answer this question because everything I have stated is true.  He is a liar with a photoshopped avatar and is selling honey using a 3rd party to convince people he is in Thailand so that when it goes bad he will feel safe in his Mom's basement.  

Edit:  I wish I could stop responding but I just have a thing for liars.

Why are you on such a crusade against Goat? Shouldn't a higher standard of proof be required before we start throwing the word "scam" around on this forum? Every other thread has one guy calling another guy a scammer on it. I know there are actually a lot of scams going on, but most of these scam accusations (not just yours) don't seem to have any evidence backing them.

For full disclosure, I own none of Goat's stock, nor do I know him or have any interest in his success or failure. I'm just puzzled at how people can get so completely convinced of something with no real evidence backing it. I'm not saying Goat isn't a scammer, either. I just don't see why you care so much.

OgNasty also doesn't seem to be verified on GLBSE and mergedmining.  Has GLBSE just not been updated?  Also, unlike TyGrr, MergedMining does not release a balance sheet.  Which is fine if that is OK with the share holders.

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April 06, 2012, 03:11:41 AM
 #215

OgNasty also doesn't seem to be verified on GLBSE and mergedmining.  Has GLBSE just not been updated?  Also, unlike TyGrr, MergedMining does not release a balance sheet.  Which is fine if that is OK with the share holders.

Nope.  Not a case of the GLBSE not being updated.  The only evidence that I am not running a scam is the image showing the current hashing power of the company which is provided by a 3rd party (btcstats.net).  This is due to me being a financial analyst for a publicly traded company that covers financial instruments and legally not being able to confirm my identity as the issuer of shares in a company without risking the loss of my employment and barring of my securities licenses.  Let the tinfoil hats fall where they may.

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stochastic
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April 06, 2012, 03:59:58 AM
 #216

OgNasty also doesn't seem to be verified on GLBSE and mergedmining.  Has GLBSE just not been updated?  Also, unlike TyGrr, MergedMining does not release a balance sheet.  Which is fine if that is OK with the share holders.

Nope.  Not a case of the GLBSE not being updated.  The only evidence that I am not running a scam is the image showing the current hashing power of the company which is provided by a 3rd party (btcstats.net).  This is due to me being a financial analyst for a publicly traded company that covers financial instruments and legally not being able to confirm my identity as the issuer of shares in a company without risking the loss of my employment and barring of my securities licenses.  Let the tinfoil hats fall where they may.

Wow, you demand I post a video of myself with honey and send out my ID but you wont give out any ID? Seems fair I guess...   Once Nefario locks your account how will you resolve this? Will the share holders get anything back? Hmm...

Hey now, put that tin-foil hat away.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 06, 2012, 04:22:54 AM
 #217

Wow, you demand I post a video of myself with honey and send out my ID but you wont give out any ID? Seems fair I guess...   Once Nefario locks your account how will you resolve this? Will the share holders get anything back? Hmm...

I am not lying about my operations and I don't have multiple listings on the GLBSE.  Therefore, Nefario will not lock my account.  However, for the sake of addressing your genuine concern...  I am pushing Nefario to instate a 'bonded by the GLBSE' program that will allow me to put up funds that will be paid out to my investors in the event the worst case scenario were to occur.

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Nefario
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April 06, 2012, 04:26:19 AM
 #218

Wow, you demand I post a video of myself with honey and send out my ID but you wont give out any ID? Seems fair I guess...   Once Nefario locks your account how will you resolve this? Will the share holders get anything back? Hmm...

I am not lying about my operations, lying about where I live, lying about having a Thai wife, using a photoshopped avatar, and I don't have multiple listings on the GLBSE.  Therefore, Nefario will not lock my account.  However, for the sake of addressing your genuine concern...  I am pushing Nefario to instate a 'bonded by the GLBSE' program that will allow me to put up funds that will be paid out to my investors in the event the worst case scenario were to occur.

How about that video of you and your wife with some of your honey in Thailand?  I noticed you've been ignoring that request, but you are obviously aware of it now.  I said I would apologize to you once you did that.  Why the reservations?  Your picture is already in your avatar.  What are you hiding?


Give it a rest dude.

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To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
stochastic
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April 06, 2012, 04:32:06 AM
 #219

Wow, you demand I post a video of myself with honey and send out my ID but you wont give out any ID? Seems fair I guess...   Once Nefario locks your account how will you resolve this? Will the share holders get anything back? Hmm...

I am not lying about my operations, lying about where I live, lying about having a Thai wife, using a photoshopped avatar, and I don't have multiple listings on the GLBSE.  Therefore, Nefario will not lock my account.  However, for the sake of addressing your genuine concern...  I am pushing Nefario to instate a 'bonded by the GLBSE' program that will allow me to put up funds that will be paid out to my investors in the event the worst case scenario were to occur.

How about that video of you and your wife with some of your honey in Thailand?  I noticed you've been ignoring that request, but you are obviously aware of it now.  I said I would apologize to you once you did that.  Why the reservations?  Your picture is already in your avatar.  What are you hiding?


Give it a rest dude.

So for the bonding, a listed asset on GLBSE basically borrows money from investors and saves a portion of that to pay them back in case the asset creator fails?

I think nefario should request some personal verification from all people listing assets on GLBSE or use some third-party verifier.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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April 06, 2012, 04:36:17 AM
 #220

So for the bonding, a listed asset on GLBSE basically borrows money from investors and saves a portion of that to pay them back in case the asset creator fails?

The thought is that it wouldn't be invested funds used for the bond, but profits from operations.  I will "give it a rest" as Nefario has requested and stop responding to questions on this thread.

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