Riots after Death of Man in Minneapolis Police Custody

[TwitchySeal]

It does seem like you, having been completely unable to present any kind of logical argument to counter facts

We agree on the facts.  I've said this many times, I'm not sure why you keep saying that.  I'm not countering any facts.

It's the WHY the facts are what they are that we're discussing.

I'm also honestly interested in your opinion.

When do you think black people were no longer affected by systemic racism?  Surely it had to be a gradual process right?

Here's the time line:
400 years ago the first slaves were brought over from Africa to Virginia
156 years ago they were no longer considered personal property that could be owned by White Men.
56 years ago the civil rights act was passed.

At what point did systemic racism completely phase out of America?

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[PopoJeff]

....
Yep.  There it is.  Popojeff is a white supremacist.  He had to preface it with about 3 paragraphs of fluff before backing into it, but it came right out.  Of course, he wrote the post in a way where he can back out of it, because he's a closet white supremacist.  

And BINGO, there it is. First the logical fallacy of the loaded questions - both you and Twitch, and now your attempt to entrap people that responded to your shit.

It does seem like popojeff thinks the reason for all the racial disparities is simply because black people are just naturally inferior compared to White people.  I've asked directly several times now: if the reason isn't systemic racism, than what is it?  Nobody seems to be able to come up with a rational explanation and instead resort to personal attacks and trolling.

I gave you a reasonable information, and said my "answer" is that there is no ONE answer
Here's the refresher if you've already convoluted the words in your brain.

I cant say I have the one answer to your question, and I doubt there is one answer.  There are so many exceptions to the rule, that it's really not a rule anymore.
   There are successful people of EVERY race and gender in every level of the economy and government. We're Sooooooo racist in the US that we had a black President. And we see failures from every race too.

I've seen scientific studies indicating darker pigmented mammals have higher levels of testosterone. Higher levels of testosterone decrease intelligence and increase propensity for violence. I've seen studies of increased breakdown of the family structure being a clue. Absentee fathers. Etc...

There are so any generalizations with shaky evidence, that I doubt most of the theories.

In my opinion, there's no ONE answer, but I put a lot of weight on individual responsibility and the lack of it in the poorer black neighborhoods. When the elitist liberals, entire Democratic Party, and the left-owned media tell you day after day that your life is someone else's fault, the government will pay/feed/save you, you are owed something for doing nothing, and white people hate you......  why the heck should you think any differently and take responsibility for your own life?  

You just dismiss it as racism.

We know systemic racism isn't the answer either. That's been proven an incorrect theory created for political influence.  

So if it's not systemic racism, and you think my input is racist. Then what's your theory ?

[Spendulus]

It does seem like you, having been completely unable to present any kind of logical argument to counter facts

We agree on the facts.  I've said this many times, I'm not sure why you keep saying that.  I'm not countering any facts.

It's the WHY the facts are what they are that we're discussing.

I'm also honestly interested in your opinion.

When do you think black people were no longer affected by systemic racism?  Surely it had to be a gradual process right?

Here's the time line:
400 years ago the first slaves were brought over from Africa to Virginia
156 years ago they were no longer considered personal property that could be owned by White Men.
56 years ago the civil rights act was passed.

At what point did systemic racism completely phase out of America?

It's not COMPLETELY phased out, Asian Americans are still facing blatant discrimination in college admissions. They have to have much better test scores than other racial groups such as Blacks to get into the better colleges. This is well known and is accepted method to liberals. Why?

Of course, "systemic racism" as you use it is largely imaginary. But the admissions policies are hard facts, and they actually do incorporate racism against Asians.

[PopoJeff]

I saw his juvenile loaded question.  I knew what he was hoping to hear.
 I didn't bite, and gave him a non-answer answer, and as expected from real racists like him, he believed the non-answer answer was racist, and accused me of white supremacy... literally assuming my skin color based on words written.

His parents must be so proud, he's able to microwave his own pizza rolls now.  

[coins4commies]

It does seem like you, having been completely unable to present any kind of logical argument to counter facts

We agree on the facts.  I've said this many times, I'm not sure why you keep saying that.  I'm not countering any facts.

It's the WHY the facts are what they are that we're discussing.

I'm also honestly interested in your opinion.

When do you think black people were no longer affected by systemic racism?  Surely it had to be a gradual process right?

Here's the time line:
400 years ago the first slaves were brought over from Africa to Virginia
156 years ago they were no longer considered personal property that could be owned by White Men.
56 years ago the civil rights act was passed.

At what point did systemic racism completely phase out of America?

It's not COMPLETELY phased out, Asian Americans are still facing blatant discrimination in college admissions. They have to have much better test scores than other racial groups such as Blacks to get into the better colleges. This is well known and is accepted method to liberals. Why?

Of course, "systemic racism" as you use it is largely imaginary. But the admissions policies are hard facts, and they actually do incorporate racism against Asians.

Dispelled

[Spendulus]

I saw his juvenile loaded question.  I knew what he was hoping to hear.
 I didn't bite, and gave him a non-answer answer, and as expected from real racists like him, he believed the non-answer answer was racist, and accused me of white supremacy... literally assuming my skin color based on words written.

His parents must be so proud, he's able to microwave his own pizza rolls now.  

Lol, he was just jumping at his puppet master's heels waiting to pop that accusation of "WHITE SUPREMICIST!" out. Yes, it's pretty obvious but these guys don't see it because they're too busy CRUSADING.

My friends in communist block countries just shake their heads and chuckle at how absolutely stupid idiotic, idealistic American "Socialists" are concerning how things actually work.

[TwitchySeal]

It does seem like you, having been completely unable to present any kind of logical argument to counter facts

We agree on the facts.  I've said this many times, I'm not sure why you keep saying that.  I'm not countering any facts.

It's the WHY the facts are what they are that we're discussing.

I'm also honestly interested in your opinion.

When do you think black people were no longer affected by systemic racism?  Surely it had to be a gradual process right?

Here's the time line:
400 years ago the first slaves were brought over from Africa to Virginia
156 years ago they were no longer considered personal property that could be owned by White Men.
56 years ago the civil rights act was passed.

At what point did systemic racism completely phase out of America?

It's not COMPLETELY phased out, Asian Americans are still facing blatant discrimination in college admissions. They have to have much better test scores than other racial groups such as Blacks to get into the better colleges. This is well known and is accepted method to liberals. Why?

Of course, "systemic racism" as you use it is largely imaginary. But the admissions policies are hard facts, and they actually do incorporate racism against Asians.

This reminds me of your 'global cooling is the greatest threat to the planet and global warming is a hoax' argument.

[Spendulus]

....

It's not COMPLETELY phased out, Asian Americans are still facing blatant discrimination in college admissions. They have to have much better test scores than other racial groups such as Blacks to get into the better colleges. This is well known and is accepted method to liberals. Why?

Of course, "systemic racism" as you use it is largely imaginary. But the admissions policies are hard facts, and they actually do incorporate racism against Asians.

This reminds me of your 'global cooling is the greatest threat to the planet and global warming is a hoax' argument.

So Asians (a race) are not systematically discriminated against in college admissions?

[coins4commies]

Affirmative action is only partially offsetting some of the privilege Asian and white students already have (built into the testing scores).  Affirmative action hasn't ended systemic racism but it has decelerated the growth in disparities caused by it.   You asked for solutions to increased crime. Well access to higher education is one of the best ways to offset the underlying causes of the problems we've been talking about.

From the same article as the graphic I posted above...If you interpreted that graph, you'd already see that Asains are now the most overrepresented group at our top colleges and rising.

Affirmative action increases the numbers of black and Hispanic students at many colleges and universities, but experts say that persistent underrepresentation often stems from equity issues that begin earlier.

Elementary and secondary schools with large numbers of black and Hispanic students are less likely to have experienced teachers, advanced courses, high-quality instructional materials and adequate facilities, according to the United States Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights.

“There’s such a distinct disadvantage to begin with,” said David Hawkins, an executive director at the National Association for College Admission Counseling. “A cascading set of obstacles all seem to contribute to a diminished representation of minority students in highly selective colleges.”

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/24/us/affirmative-action.html

[TwitchySeal]

....

It's not COMPLETELY phased out, Asian Americans are still facing blatant discrimination in college admissions. They have to have much better test scores than other racial groups such as Blacks to get into the better colleges. This is well known and is accepted method to liberals. Why?

Of course, "systemic racism" as you use it is largely imaginary. But the admissions policies are hard facts, and they actually do incorporate racism against Asians.

This reminds me of your 'global cooling is the greatest threat to the planet and global warming is a hoax' argument.

So Asians (a race) are not systematically discriminated against in college admissions?

Yes, they are and so are White people.  Education plays a major roll in systemic racism.  Black and Hispanic young adults go to college at a much lower rate than Whites and Asians, accepting more Black and Hispanic students has a long term affect on systemic racism.  Someone with a college education is less likely to live in poverty, commit crime, etc.  And the same goes for their children, grandchildren etc.

You asked me a direct question and I answered it.  Will you answer mine please?

Why do you think there's such a disparity between black and white people with regards to poverty, health and crime?

[Spendulus]

So Asians (a race) are not systematically discriminated against in college admissions?

Yes, they are and so are White people.  Education plays a major roll in systemic racism.  Black and Hispanic young adults go to college at a much lower rate than Whites and Asians, accepting more Black and Hispanic students has a long term affect on systemic racism.  Someone with a college education is less likely to live in poverty, commit crime, etc.  And the same goes for their children, grandchildren etc.

You asked me a direct question and I answered it.  Will you answer mine please?

Why do you think there's such a disparity between black and white people with regards to poverty, health and crime?

Anyone that thinks life is fair or can be made fair is a fucking idiot. Now let's start figuring out how to fix the systematic racism against asians at places like Harvard and Yale. Want a hint? It's not by rioting and violence.

[TwitchySeal]

Now let's start figuring out how to fix the systematic racism against asians at places like Harvard and Yale. Want a hint? It's not by rioting and violence.

Oh I know!  You think they should stop letting so many black people into good schools.

Their grandparents weren't allowed to go to school with White people at all, and their grandparents grandparents were literally slaves so they should appreciate what they have now and stfu about White people making more money and living longer.

Am I close?

[Spendulus]

Now let's start figuring out how to fix the systematic racism against asians at places like Harvard and Yale. Want a hint? It's not by rioting and violence.

Oh I know!  You think they should stop letting so many black people into good schools.

Their grandparents weren't allowed to go to school with White people at all, and their grandparents grandparents were literally slaves so they should appreciate what they have now and stfu about White people making more money and living longer.

Am I close?

What you are is explicitly racist, prejudiced, and operating with blatant stereotypes.

As others have pointed out.

[TwitchySeal]

Now let's start figuring out how to fix the systematic racism against asians at places like Harvard and Yale. Want a hint? It's not by rioting and violence.

Oh I know!  You think they should stop letting so many black people into good schools.

Their grandparents weren't allowed to go to school with White people at all, and their grandparents grandparents were literally slaves so they should appreciate what they have now and stfu about White people making more money and living longer.

Am I close?

What you are is explicitly racist, prejudiced, and operating with blatant stereotypes.

As others have pointed out.

Yeah, according to TECSHARE the KKKK are less racist than me.

I'm also both brainwashed and don't have a brain, suffer from TDS, a little bitch, and I would happily give a nazi a blow job should the opportunity arise.

[Spendulus]

Now let's start figuring out how to fix the systematic racism against asians at places like Harvard and Yale. Want a hint? It's not by rioting and violence.

Oh I know!  You think they should stop letting so many black people into good schools.

Their grandparents weren't allowed to go to school with White people at all, and their grandparents grandparents were literally slaves so they should appreciate what they have now and stfu about White people making more money and living longer.

Am I close?

What you are is explicitly racist, prejudiced, and operating with blatant stereotypes.

As others have pointed out.

Yeah, according to TECSHARE the KKKK are less racist than me.

I'm also both brainwashed and don't have a brain, suffer from TDS, a little bitch, and I would happily give a nazi a blow job should the opportunity arise.

Just to be clear, " explicitly racist, prejudiced, and operating with blatant stereotypes. " is not an an hominem argument, but purely descriptive of behavior based on your own words and concepts.

There would seem to be no way around this.

Techshare does not, by way of contrast, show " explicitly racist, prejudiced " viewpoints. Such labels applied to him are ad hominem logical arguments. More precisely though, they are part of your scripted dialectic, that which you've been handed and told to work with.

[TwitchySeal]

Since the Civil Rights Movement explicit racism has been less and less prevalent in America.

Cases of implicit racism seem to be on the rise recently, especially since the the BLM movement has gone global.

Stereotyping all BLM protesters as thugs and violent criminals, or stating racial crime statistics without any context as a rebuttal to the BLM movement are both examples of implicit racism.

[theymos]

if the reason isn't systemic racism, than what is it?

Blacks are much poorer than whites, are less likely to have stable families, are less likely to have high-quality educations, etc. This is caused mostly by past slavery, long-time government oppression, and past racism. A freed slave had no property or education, so they couldn't afford to educate their children or give them much property. Furthermore, they were often basically forced into a pseudo-slavery system by the government. Then due to poor education and racist laws, the next several generations found it very difficult to accumulate much wealth and very easy to have any wealth they did accumulate taken from them. Government, courts, and society were constantly pushing them back in an ever-deeper hole. Even a couple of generations ago, after most of the racism written into law was gone, societal racism was a drag on these people.

However, now the direct racism is mostly gone. There are still a small number of racist people in powerful positions, but IMO it's a minor factor. If you reformed every single one of these people, I don't think you'd see much difference in society. The problem is that many black families were pushed into a very deep hole, and they just haven't had time to dig themselves out yet, even though society is no longer still dragging them back into the hole very much. Generations of oppression isn't going to be undone immediately, even when the oppression stops.

The justice system, business, etc. is biased against poor and uneducated people, which disproportionately affects certain minorities, but this is because these groups are disproportionately poor and uneducated, due for example to the previously-mentioned factors. Poor and uneducated whites are also treated poorly by the justice system.

Blaming the racial inequality on "structural racism" is counter-productive: First, modern racism is IMO not actually a huge part of what's causing this inequality, so you're aiming at the wrong target. Second, a lot of conservatives see this stuff as you calling them racist even when they're not, which prevents you from ever getting their support. Third, policies which are designed to help one race over another (such as racial affirmative action or diversity quotas) in order to balance inequalities are themselves racist and unfair, and a lot of people despise such policies. Instead of complaining about "structural racism", it'd be more effective to support programs that help poor and uneducated people across the board. Since minorities are disproportionately poor and uneducated, any such programs will disproportionately help minorities; it's like affirmative action, but without pissing people off.

Many of the mainstream-left proposals are also simply ineffective: Affirmative action and diversity initiatives help a few individuals, but have little effect on the group as a whole. Many types of welfare encourage dependence on the government and discourage work, just making things worse. Government education sucks in general, and throwing more money at it rarely helps. IMO the solution probably has to do with ensuring stable family lives and good education. Ending the drug war and helping people addicted to drugs would be a good idea. Helping people relocate from inner cities without any good jobs to lower-population-density areas with decent jobs would be a good idea. Ensuring that children are going to good schools, have good nutrition, and are not distracted by home issues would be a good idea. (I'd ideally advocate doing all this through non-profits, not government.)

[Spendulus]

Since the Civil Rights Movement explicit racism has been less and less prevalent in America.

Cases of implicit racism seem to be on the rise recently, especially since the the BLM movement has gone global.

Stereotyping all BLM protesters as thugs and violent criminals, or stating racial crime statistics without any context as a rebuttal to the BLM movement are both examples of implicit racism.

The BLM "Platform" is explicitly racist.

I notice you are now trying to distinguish between "explicit" and "implicit."

"Implicit" is interesting because by way of this subterfuge you would assign to yourself the ability to judge such a thing.

But it's laughably easy to see through this ruse.

One problem with this "New Trend" which you are parroting is that it ignores many things that were well understood as causative to issues with American blacks. For example, it's been well documented that Johnson's (DEMOCRAT) "Great Society" initiative was a major factor in disintegration of black families, and the huge tracts of low income housing built were totally destined to become ghettos.

Learn from history, and move forward.

Ignore history, blame "implicit racism", see it everywhere, strive to adjudicate it's presence from your own assumed moral authority, and regress.

But taking the latter course assists the attempt to take over the Democratic Party, and the country or sections of it, with the new perverted, authoritarian and totalitarian Left. Facts don't matter, getting power does matter.

Right?

[PopoJeff]

   It's really getting funny how hypocritical the left is... point the finger... point the finger, and everyone looks over there. They pay no attention to what you are doing, just what you point at.
   Implicit racism, institutional racism, systemic racism, this racism, that racism..... they come out with a new type of racism whenever they run out of the last one.

  They keep talking in a circle, but always hit on one point....... poverty.   Now, in the Democrats eyes (yes, this is all political now), the poverty is caused by racism. (Look over there). Whatever type of racism they attribute it to is always disproved, so they'll create a new type of racism next election cycle.  But the poverty is actually caused by Liberal Democrat policies, in Democrat controlled cities, in Democrat controlled states.
    They'll show you propaganda films of black kids being unable to succeed because they couldn't go to a good rich school 2 blocks away because of imaginary lines. But when they'll leave out the part of school funding, and increased funding to poorer schools had ZERO effect. It's proven that throwing money at poverty doesnt work, it just creates dependency, and that's what the Democrats want.
    We see higher crime rates among the poor in every race. The black community fears racism, and when you can control someone's fear, you control them.  Just like their Democratic President LBJ said, they'll keep them voting Democrat for 200 years. The poor communities are being kept poor intentionally. The Democrats give the poor free money, free housing, free food. The poor have literally zero incentive to work, better their lives, or leave their free accommodations. And thats how the Democrats want it.
   And what' the next best voter base they can manipulate?  The young and naive. Shove propaganda down the throats of the young naive kids with feelings via Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and you can make someone born less than two decades ago think they are guilty for something that happened two centuries ago.

  Some of us have been on this earth long enough to see this happen EVERY election cycle. Theres a routine. Theres a pattern.

   But do not fret.... there is a cure for racism. And the Democrats have already found it. It's OPEN BORDERS.  They've already done studies on the Latino vs Black birth rates in the US. The black birth relate is dropping, and the Latino birth rate is rising. Open borders can expedite their plan, and once they feel they can manipulate the larger Latino vote, you will see the switch happen. All of a sudden, you'll see the political battle cry switch from black racism to Latino something. Racism will have been cured.

   Have you not noticed already, the change in the narrative from the last election cycle?   4 years ago, it was just RACISM, RACISM.   That didnt work, so now they want to scream it louder, come up with systemic racism, oh, and this time lets throw in some white supremacy to top it off.   Yes, one talking head in this thread actually called Candice Owes a white supremacist.  

On topic..... George Floyd was a career criminal with a much higher probability of dying while committing crime, than a non-criminal.  

[PrimeNumber7]

Here's a painting of Patriots tearing down a statue of King George in 1776.


[ing ]https://i.gyazo.com/70de29950b81495535e1b0a4aeb8d30c.png[/img]

Tearing down monuments is a part of history.

There is a major difference between tearing down a statue of someone who is currently imposing tyranny (or was just forcibly stopped from continuing doing so) upon a group of people, and a statute of a historical figure. The former is a sign that the tyrant's reign has stopped, and the former is destroying history. I actually suspect the intention of tearing down historical statues is going to lead to eventually (not long from now) rewriting history.

it'd be more effective to support programs that help poor and uneducated people across the board. Since minorities are disproportionately poor and uneducated, any such programs will disproportionately help minorities; it's like affirmative action, but without pissing people off.

The obvious solution would be to increase charter schools in poor areas.

Ineffective public schools have lead to horribly math and reading proficiency scores in poor areas of the country. Charter schools have consistently done a better job at educating students. In New York City, there were 28 classes in which charter schools shared buildings with public schools. Roughly 10% of public school students were proficient on statewide tests, while between 81 and 100% of students at charter schools received proficient scores on the same tests.

Ending the drug war and helping people addicted to drugs would be a good idea.

It would be difficult to do both. It would probably be a good idea to rethink the approach to the drug war. Leniency should be given to very low-level offenders first several offenses, but those who sell drugs should be punished. Drug dealers profit off of people getting addicted to the drugs they are selling, which causes real harm to both their customers and society as a whole. Due to the high-profit margins from selling drugs, drug dealers can afford to extend high-risk credit to their buyers and offer deep discounts to those who cannot afford to pay the full price, which makes it difficult to break addictions.