[BFL] List of Lies

[cedivad]

Don't feed the troll... They must be working in 24h shifts.
Posted from Bitcointa.lk - #oyjKTFht0rlEe1sx

[1714122377]

1714122377

[1714122377]

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[k9quaint]

In addition, if you want to be technical (and I know you guys love being technical), Bitmain initially promised 0.68 J/GH on chip, which is meaningless.  Joules is an energy measurement and is usually referenced over time, and there's no time measuement included.  ANY manufacturer out there could make the same claim and it would not be a lie.  While it might take 1 manufacturer .5 sec to reach .68J/GH, it might take another manufacturer 3 seconds.  But that's only misleading, so you'd probably discount it being an untruth.

That is simply not how it works.

1 Joule = 1 Watt/second

You should keep facts away from bcp19. The two tend to react violently when mixed together.   

[Bicknellski]

In addition, if you want to be technical (and I know you guys love being technical), Bitmain initially promised 0.68 J/GH on chip, which is meaningless.  Joules is an energy measurement and is usually referenced over time, and there's no time measuement included.  ANY manufacturer out there could make the same claim and it would not be a lie.  While it might take 1 manufacturer .5 sec to reach .68J/GH, it might take another manufacturer 3 seconds.  But that's only misleading, so you'd probably discount it being an untruth.

That is simply not how it works.

1 Joule = 1 Watt/second

[Syke]

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

Oct: "November / December    Initial Shipping"

Dec: "With that in mind, our current schedule is on track for shippments to begin towards end of year."

Jan: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in January 2014."

Feb: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in February, 2014."

These aren't just some quotes printed in some obscure website they have no control over. This is straight from their product page which is used to sell their products. They regularly update the webpage, yet they chose to not update some issues which no longer are true. That places them firmly in "lie" territory.

[Bicknellski]

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

Oct: "November / December    Initial Shipping"

Dec: "With that in mind, our current schedule is on track for shippments to begin towards end of year."

Jan: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in January 2014."

Feb: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in February, 2014."

These aren't just some quotes printed in some obscure website they have no control over. This is straight from their product page which is used to sell their products. They regularly update the webpage, yet they chose to not update some issues which no longer are true. That places them firmly in "lie" territory.

[Xian01]

Let us not forget that "he who shall not be named" has the unmitigated gall to publicly call those of us that have been historically critical of their poor business practices, and bringing them to light as "liars" despite the facts presented here. Remember that 10 BTC bribe to silence a certain forums luminary ?

Thank God for Bitmain is all I have to say, and it's so incredibly sad that every OEM Bitcoin ASIC venture that has tried to launch off US soil has been fraught with problems, delays, and questionable business practices while Europe and China flood the market with attractive and timely options.

[YipYip]

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

Oct: "November / December    Initial Shipping"

Dec: "With that in mind, our current schedule is on track for shippments to begin towards end of year."

Jan: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in January 2014."

Feb: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in February, 2014."

These aren't just some quotes printed in some obscure website they have no control over. This is straight from their product page which is used to sell their products. They regularly update the webpage, yet they chose to not update some issues which no longer are true. That places them firmly in "lie" territory.

OMG the moron is still pushing the lie wagon around for BFL

BCP you are complicit in fraud ....

I have no energy for con men and their lackys anymore ..as it is plain to see what is  .... look in the mirror as you think its all fun and games ...these are peoples & families lifes you are messing with

May you rot in hell for the crimes you are committing against families and children as they prey on easy targets.... Is this your life BCP to help conmen by running diversionary/intaferance tactics so they can ripp innocent people off

Go play golf you retard ...you as a human disgust me... GET HELP

[RoadStress]

So, you're saying KnC shipped in mid-August?  Damn, I must have missed that in all the Avalon whining in the KnC thread.

Deceit is intentional, meaning it was originally posted with the intent to deceive.  Procrastination/laziness is a more accurate description and is hardly deceit.  It is a bad business model, but you and so many others seem to think everything needs to be perfect.

KnC shipped first week of September if i recall correctly so it's not such a big deceit. It's surely not as big as BFL's and retard Inaba aka Josh Zerlan who is a tard because he likes tards and he lives likes tards Inaba=tard

bcp19=shill for tards

[bcp19]

In addition, if you want to be technical (and I know you guys love being technical), Bitmain initially promised 0.68 J/GH on chip, which is meaningless.  Joules is an energy measurement and is usually referenced over time, and there's no time measuement included.  ANY manufacturer out there could make the same claim and it would not be a lie.  While it might take 1 manufacturer .5 sec to reach .68J/GH, it might take another manufacturer 3 seconds.  But that's only misleading, so you'd probably discount it being an untruth.

That is simply not how it works.

1 Joule = 1 Watt/second

How sad, you still don't understand how it works, it's WATTS * TIME = JOULES.  Joules as a reference in itself is meaningless without the time factor.

50 watts for .25 seconds = 12.5 joules

50 watts for 2 seconds = 100 joules

How to convert watts to joules

How to convert electric power in watts (W) to energy in joules (J).

You can calculate joules from watts and seconds, but you can't convert watts to joules since watt and joule units represent different quantities.

Watts to joules calculation formula

The energy E in joules (J) is equal to the power P in watts (W), times the time period t in seconds (s):

E(J) = P(W) × t(s)

So

joules = watts × seconds

or

J = W × s

Example

What is the energy consumption of an electrical circuit that has power consumption of 30 watts for time duration of 3 seconds?

E(J) = 30W × 3s = 90J

[bcp19]

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

Oct: "November / December    Initial Shipping"

Dec: "With that in mind, our current schedule is on track for shippments to begin towards end of year."

Jan: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in January 2014."

Feb: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in February, 2014."

These aren't just some quotes printed in some obscure website they have no control over. This is straight from their product page which is used to sell their products. They regularly update the webpage, yet they chose to not update some issues which no longer are true. That places them firmly in "lie" territory.

OMG the moron is still pushing the lie wagon around for BFL

BCP you are complicit in fraud ....

I have no energy for con men and their lackys anymore ..as it is plain to see what is  .... look in the mirror as you think its all fun and games ...these are peoples & families lifes you are messing with

May you rot in hell for the crimes you are committing against families and children as they prey on easy targets.... Is this your life BCP to help conmen by running diversionary/intaferance tactics so they can ripp innocent people off

Go play golf you retard ...you as a human disgust me... GET HELP

How am I complicit in fraud?  Can you point to a single instance where I advised people to buy from them?  I can point to several where I told people NOT to buy due to the money spent never making a positive ROI.  You and the other fail-trolls fail at understanding just exactly WHAT it is I am saying (Bickski, this means you above all others).

You guys basically spend your time and energy going after "Number one on the ten most hated list" while ignoring numbers 2-10.  Every ASIC manufacturer has presented themselves in the best possible light, yet they aren't No. 1, so it's ok for them to get away with it.

Maybe you are the one who needs to play golf, actually, on second thought don't... you sure get bent over minor stuff on these forums, I hate to see you get bent over hitting a golf ball into the woods, you'd paint the whole community in a bad light.

[Syke]

How sad, you still don't understand how it works, it's WATTS * TIME = JOULES.  Joules as a reference in itself is meaningless without the time factor.

You make correcting you so much fun, I just can't resist. The "fime factor" is missing because it cancels itself out. The two terms use miners love to reference are "watts" and "gigahashes per second". Look what happens when you combine them.

.68 W / (GH/s)

multiple both numerator and denominator by s

.68 Ws / (GHs/s)

simplify (Ws) and (s/s)

.68 J / GH

Tada!

[RoadStress]

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

Oct: "November / December    Initial Shipping"

Dec: "With that in mind, our current schedule is on track for shippments to begin towards end of year."

Jan: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in January 2014."

Feb: "However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in February, 2014."

These aren't just some quotes printed in some obscure website they have no control over. This is straight from their product page which is used to sell their products. They regularly update the webpage, yet they chose to not update some issues which no longer are true. That places them firmly in "lie" territory.

But Inaba NEVER lies...   

[Bicknellski]

How sad, you still don't understand how it works, it's WATTS * TIME = JOULES.  Joules as a reference in itself is meaningless without the time factor.

You make correcting you so much fun, I just can't resist. The "fime factor" is missing because it cancels itself out. The two terms use miners love to reference are "watts" and "gigahashes per second". Look what happens when you combine them.

.68 W / (GH/s)

multiple both numerator and denominator by s

.68 Ws / (GHs/s)

simplify (Ws) and (s/s)

.68 J / GH

Tada!

BURNAGE AGAIN!



Maybe you need some bandages...

[Starlightbreaker]

In addition, if you want to be technical (and I know you guys love being technical), Bitmain initially promised 0.68 J/GH on chip, which is meaningless.  Joules is an energy measurement and is usually referenced over time, and there's no time measuement included.  ANY manufacturer out there could make the same claim and it would not be a lie.  While it might take 1 manufacturer .5 sec to reach .68J/GH, it might take another manufacturer 3 seconds.  But that's only misleading, so you'd probably discount it being an untruth.

sup cocksucker.

your lips' not on josh's dick?                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

[augustocroppo]

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

I challenge the OP with this:  Show me an ASIC company that has not told ANY lies.  Let's not focus on one, let's put them all on the table.  Otherwise, this is simply another hate thread intended to incite riot because the OP is just another troll.

KnCminer and ASICMiner had hidden the truth, but so far I am aware they never produced blatant deceptions like BFL to sell products.

Your "everyone lie so it is fine to lie" argument is pretty much pathetic.

[Unacceptable]

There's one major thing missing from this list... a timeline as to when each comment was written.  The OP seriously seems to think that these are current claims, when several of them were made months ago.  Call it was it really is, a lack of updating the website with current information.

A timeline is irrelevant because most of these statements were made after KNC shipped and began working on their next gen chip.

Please don't pretend the lack of updating the site with accurate information is anything but deceit. They seem to have no problem updating other parts of the site and are incredibly active on these forums and their own.

I challenge the OP with this:  Show me an ASIC company that has not told ANY lies.  Let's not focus on one, let's put them all on the table.  Otherwise, this is simply another hate thread intended to incite riot because the OP is just another troll.

Challenge accepted and completed: Bitmain.

We don't need to put them all on the table because this is a thread to focus on BFL. I am not going to argue that every asic manufacturer is perfect in fact most are the complete opposite.

I think just about everyone would agree BFL is competing for worst asic manufacturer. (tied with hashfast currently)

So, you're saying KnC shipped in mid-August?  Damn, I must have missed that in all the Avalon whining in the KnC thread.

Deceit is intentional, meaning it was originally posted with the intent to deceive.  Procrastination/laziness is a more accurate description and is hardly deceit.  It is a bad business model, but you and so many others seem to think everything needs to be perfect.

Yes, I can see it's 'purpose' is to focus on BFL, couldn't use one of the 50+ threads already out there, had to create another to add to the mess.

As to the trolling part, #1 This one is a tough call, as your examples didn't have existing product (except for Avalon) when it was made, but the problem comes about with companies underpowering chips to reach those power specs.  Until there is a fully working Monarch in hand running at the stated 600GH to see actualy power specs, you technically cannot claim this a lie.  They were shooting for .7W/GH at the time of conception and now it looks like they will beat that, but you nitpick other statements to call it a lie.

#2, I can technically give this to you as ASICMiner had thousands of those little USB stick toys they sold.  Considering they were pfft for hashing power and vastly overpriced (2BTC back in May and would have earned less than .7BTC as of today.)  Discounting AM though, the statement was true when made.

#3, On one of my visits to KC, I noticed their board noting a record 1 day shipping of over 1000 units and the weekly record was over 4000.  At that point in time, there was NO other ASIC manufacturer that had that much production capability, and unless you again count the little USB sticks, which wouldn't be put together in a workplace like BFL has but in a much bigger/vastly automated place, it's doubtful any of the current companies could match this output.

#4.  Your failing to account for time means that you think this is still accurate to this day, but Bitmain was not around posting about a $3/GH claim back in August.  What was true in August is no longer true today, if the statement had read: "The Competition at least $ 17.50 /GH, AND WILL NEVER GET LOWER", then you could indeed say it was a lie.

#5, back in August, 65nm technology WAS powering the majority of the bitcoin network.

#6, So, back in August KnC had a working 1st gen ASIC was was developing a 2nd Gen?

#7, AM, really?!?  Wow.  You love to throw Bitmain out there, but you can only point to Nov when they started posting on the forums.  Considering they were 'founded in 1Q 2013' and nothing was heard until November, you cannot in truth say they had no delay, you can only state that they worked out their delays BEFORE announcing anything.

#8, Technically a lie because they were overly optimistic about their foundry/testing timeline.

#9, You missed the word plan.  True, they suck at timelines, but that isn't lying.

#10, Until you have a fully working 600GH monarch in hand, you cannot call this a lie.  While you pulled the .6 number from their product page, their forum posting says:

Power & Performance better than expected
The initial power consumption numbers for Monarch are in and they're about 20% better than anticipated, meaning we expect the Monarch to consume 0.45W/GH at the chip level. This translates to about 300W per 600GH at the wall. Chip performance of all systems is as good as or better than predicted. To put this in perspective, this makes the Monarch chip nearly twice as power efficient as compared to our 28nm competition whose products operate between 0.9 and 1.0w per GH at the wall.

.45 at chip level = 270 watts which leaves 80 watts available to reach their 350W listing on the product page.  So much for your 'chips alone are .6w' statement.

I think Avalon wins as worst myself, but that's a judgement call due to the 800k chip fiasco.  

I challenge you to argue that any specific point I made was inaccurate. Otherwise it is you who is the troll.

 
Challenge accepted and completed.

[Todamont]

BFL told me straight up that upgrading from Jala to Single would not delay my order. Then, people with Jala orders 8 months after mine got their devices before I did. Needless to say, I didn't ROI.

[fran2k]

Once I meet some BFL guys in a convention.

I would like to hit one of them, seriously.

They were pre-selling the Monarchs.

Such liers.

[Todamont]

I saw Zerlan at the conference in Austin. I wanted to heckle him, but it would have reflected badly on my organization. I was amazed he had the balls to show his face there, though. They had a table with some half-fabbed circuitboards, I didn't see anyone show interest.

[Searing]

Well I have an email from BFL that I WILL get a refund for my april 2013 orders (ie 65mm bricks would have arrived thanksgiving nov 25th or so ) that due to no refunds i forced upgraded....thought until this email that was without a doubt the dumbest thing I ever did had to give them 2K to pull that off..anyway out to BFL more or less 8k if they give me back 5k for this 1st batch monarch and/or i get the 2nd 300gh unit and sell it asap on ebay...I may only be in the hole for 2k more or less (most of that was the 10% bullsh*t on upgrading fees of various notes on the products as they strung me along..

yeah i got took i admit it (i was  a noob thou my only defense)

So anyway here is the email i got below

Hello,
We're sorry you do not wish to remain in the Monarch order queue. Due to our recent delays you qualify for a refund. ​​This refund process will take from 30-45 days since we are offering your position in the queue to potential buyers. ​We appreciate your understanding for ​the extra time​ this takes. If we are unable to sell your order we will, nevertheless, refund your money.  Thank you for sending us your repayment information.

Dennis
The BF Labs Customer Service Team​​

Why do when I read that get the impression if EVERYONE asks for a refund and they don't sell my order (or others) as stated above....I"m gonna get screwed...

but this is the LEAST wishy washy email I've ever gotten from them if that means anything.

knock wood

anyway for you alls info FYI

Searing