Both PoW and PoS algos are scams. Here's why.

[batang_bitcoin]

If that's what you think, ok then. But you can't replace these consensus with what you are believing but if you have a better proposal to change these algos into the consensus algorithm that you know which is safer and more secured, you can give that proposal or make it happen.

[FreeStreamer]

If that's what you think, ok then. But you can't replace these consensus with what you are believing but if you have a better proposal to change these algos into the consensus algorithm that you know which is safer and more secured, you can give that proposal or make it happen.

Yes, I actually have. A hybrid Proof-of-Replication, Proof-of-Retrieval and Proof-of-Stake would be better because Proof-of-Replication and Proof-of-Retrieval are used for validating any data. Not only value transactions.

[Fluttershy]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Mining top coins are not that cost-effective but mining a coin early which we believe will have a great future is a whole different game.
but in case of PoS you need money to make money.

[batang_bitcoin]

If that's what you think, ok then. But you can't replace these consensus with what you are believing but if you have a better proposal to change these algos into the consensus algorithm that you know which is safer and more secured, you can give that proposal or make it happen.

Yes, I actually have. A hybrid Proof-of-Replication, Proof-of-Retrieval and Proof-of-Stake would be better because Proof-of-Replication and Proof-of-Retrieval are used for validating any data. Not only value transactions.

Did you invented all of that? where can we find the description and explanation for those consensus'?

Mining top coins are not that cost-effective

Actually they are. Mine bitcoin, you'll need to spend a lot of money from thousands to tens of thousands for you to have a profitable mining experience.

mining a coin early which we believe will have a great future is a whole different game.
but in case of PoS you need money to make money.

The same with PoW, you can mine those worthless PoW coins but they don't have value but mining those profitable and worth it PoW coins, requires you decent capital.

[Bezobraznike]

   I didn't see anything here to convince me that PoW and PoS are scams! While some people are making good passive income,
while Ethereum goes PoS, how can anyone believe that these two are scams?
   I need much more evidences to convince me that these two are scams. For now this thread will be just a FUD for me, when I
see some evidences I will think about changing my mind.

[bitgolden]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Your arguments are seeming not enough to back your points? Did you start this topic out of rush or after facing frustrating mining experience?

If Proof-of-Work will be profitable then you will agree it is not a scam? It must be profitable otherwise how BTC blockchain network is guarded by this much hashes? I read all mining rewards are profitable with respect to future prices. In this way those miners might be selling their rewards which were belonging to prior to 2016 blocks which was 25BTC per block. If they manage to hold until today then they must be enjoying the power of long term holding. I guess that is the one of the right way to do BTC mining.

Proof-of-Stake is as well scam? Because we need initial investment to set it? Then what costs you zero to start with? If anything available for free of cost then you will agree that is not a scam? Honestly could not get your perspective; you must add more points to stand up with your arguments.

[bgaf]

So you are saying OP most or should I say majority of coins and tokens are scam including bitcoin and eth which utilize these protocols. I think you got it wrong and your reasoning is too shallow to be able to say its a scam. The invention of those mechanism served as building blocks for a succesful blockchain projects then your saying its a scam? I dont know know if you even know how these protocol works in blockchain. The holding statement is like a chilidish reasoning like a kid that been stolen some candy. Do some reading and analyze it.

[mu_enrico]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes.

Whooooahh, how dare you talk shit about PoW 

Something cost more than it makes is a scam? Not because of inefficiency aka obsolete mining rigs?
If you can't make money out of your mining activity, it is because:
- your mining rig sucks;
- your electricity cost sucks;
- you try to mine shitcoin.

But your conclusion: PoW is a scam. Yeah right.

[FreeStreamer]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes.

Whooooahh, how dare you talk shit about PoW 

Something cost more than it makes is a scam? Not because of inefficiency aka obsolete mining rigs?
If you can't make money out of your mining activity, it is because:
- your mining rig sucks;
- your electricity cost sucks;
- you try to mine shitcoin.

But your conclusion: PoW is a scam. Yeah right.

Yes. If something costs more than it makes. it's not an asset but a liability. It's not an investment. It's not a store of value. It's a liability. 

[pixie85]

Yes. If something costs more than it makes. it's not an asset but a liability. It's not an investment. It's not a store of value. It's a liability. 

So according to you miners who mine PoW Bitcoin are losing money? Last time I checked Bitcoin was worth more than it costed in fiat money to mine it.

Add that it also confirms transactions and that there are fees paid willingly for every confirmation and you'll see that the ecosystem is working well.

You pay for a transaction. What does it mean that your transaction costs more than it makes?

[FreeStreamer]

Yes. If something costs more than it makes. it's not an asset but a liability. It's not an investment. It's not a store of value. It's a liability. 

So according to you miners who mine PoW Bitcoin are losing money? Last time I checked Bitcoin was worth more than it costed in fiat money to mine it.

Add that it also confirms transactions and that there are fees paid willingly for every confirmation and you'll see that the ecosystem is working well.

You pay for a transaction. What does it mean that your transaction costs more than it makes?

That's not what I wrote. I'm talking about Bitcoin itself as a so called investment. Miners are the only ones who make money. They have not invested in Bitcoin. They have invested in mining hardware. They mine Bitcoin because people are still fooled into buying it. There is no other reason to mine it. It has no utility. It has value because people have put money in it, but it's still a liability. Liabilities cost money. They just don't make money.

[FreeStreamer]

So you are saying OP most or should I say majority of coins and tokens are scam including bitcoin and eth which utilize these protocols. I think you got it wrong and your reasoning is too shallow to be able to say its a scam. The invention of those mechanism served as building blocks for a succesful blockchain projects then your saying its a scam? I dont know know if you even know how these protocol works in blockchain. The holding statement is like a chilidish reasoning like a kid that been stolen some candy. Do some reading and analyze it.

Eth announced two years ago already that it's ditching PoW. The only reason they mine them is that people buy them as some kind of novelty item to possess. There is no real usage. Currency is mean to be used.

[FreeStreamer]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Hmm. What leads you to the statement?

Scam is scam. Does it matter that scam comes from banks, real estates, stocks, bitcoin or altcoins? There are good and bad projects in crypto. Among bad projects, there are scam projects that are created initially by scammers and initial purposes of scammers are only scam investors and get a fortune to run away.

From what I see, fiats are scam too.  

Collection of comprehensive guides on identify and avoid scam projects

Yes FIATs are a scam too, but that's not the topic here. But because the value of PoW and PoS are supported with just FIAT, they will also go down together with FIAT. The market correlation became very clear now with the dive that Dow Jones made this spring.

[FLHippy]

You need a consensus to verify transactions and to make it legit. Without verifiers around the world, you won´t have decentralization and you can forget about network credibility. PoW means that users need to spend energy to verify transactions, Pos means that users need to spend money to buy coins and after that they are authorized to verify transaction. This prevents cheating because who would cheat against his property.

[Ucy]

The current PoW model was an important solution to a problem of it's time. PoS brings it's own important solutions to current problems in consensus but not without potential consequences or disadvantages.
I think efficient hybrid would be good... maybe by mixing PoW with unique ID, reputation, rewards (esp coin rewards).
I will basically go for consensus algorithm that:
1. Is not hard to participate in
2. can choose the best
3. Reward all participants accordingly
4. Can't be exploited or abused
5. Is very decentralized
6. Can't be centralized
7. Is efficient
Etc...

[coinfinger]

Mining top coins are not that cost-effective but mining a coin early which we believe will have a great future is a whole different game.
but in case of PoS you need money to make money.

Actually I don't see any problem with PoS coins because in real world itself the principle works that real is supposed to be getting richer and the poorer will get poorer and while you like it or not that's how it works so I see no problem if the same applies to coins.

That's not what I wrote. I'm talking about Bitcoin itself as a so called investment. Miners are the only ones who make money. They have not invested in Bitcoin. They have invested in mining hardware. They mine Bitcoin because people are still fooled into buying it.

While you have a point but let me try and explain you, people use bitcoins for various tasks that can't be achieved otherwise so they buy bitcoins and miners are getting paid to mine those coins so everyone is at benefit and that is what the power of an ecosystem is and why it exists.

There is no other reason to mine it. It has no utility. It has value because people have put money in it, but it's still a liability. Liabilities cost money. They just don't make money.

But, if you look into most cryptos, they are lagging with utilities still they manage to have higher value due to speculative reasons. Based on speculations, investors and traders continuously pumping it. If people look for a coin with utility characteristics to mine, then probably they will be left with very few options which again goes against them as heavy competitions in mining leads to industry like mining which is exactly happening with BTC mining.

[pixie85]

Yes. If something costs more than it makes. it's not an asset but a liability. It's not an investment. It's not a store of value. It's a liability. 

So according to you miners who mine PoW Bitcoin are losing money? Last time I checked Bitcoin was worth more than it costed in fiat money to mine it.

Add that it also confirms transactions and that there are fees paid willingly for every confirmation and you'll see that the ecosystem is working well.

You pay for a transaction. What does it mean that your transaction costs more than it makes?

That's not what I wrote. I'm talking about Bitcoin itself as a so called investment. Miners are the only ones who make money. They have not invested in Bitcoin. They have invested in mining hardware. They mine Bitcoin because people are still fooled into buying it. There is no other reason to mine it. It has no utility. It has value because people have put money in it, but it's still a liability. Liabilities cost money. They just don't make money.

OK, so miners make money.

I bought Bitcoin a couple years ago and made money on my investment. I also know a bunch of people who made a lot of money on Bitcoin. If PoW is a scam, but miners made money and many investors made money, who was scammed?

From a different perspective, Bitcoin is money. Do we really have to keep making money from money? Is it really Bitcoin's purpose to bring you financial profit?
How about some financial freedom?

[FreeStreamer]

Yes. If something costs more than it makes. it's not an asset but a liability. It's not an investment. It's not a store of value. It's a liability. 

So according to you miners who mine PoW Bitcoin are losing money? Last time I checked Bitcoin was worth more than it costed in fiat money to mine it.

Add that it also confirms transactions and that there are fees paid willingly for every confirmation and you'll see that the ecosystem is working well.

You pay for a transaction. What does it mean that your transaction costs more than it makes?

That's not what I wrote. I'm talking about Bitcoin itself as a so called investment. Miners are the only ones who make money. They have not invested in Bitcoin. They have invested in mining hardware. They mine Bitcoin because people are still fooled into buying it. There is no other reason to mine it. It has no utility. It has value because people have put money in it, but it's still a liability. Liabilities cost money. They just don't make money.

OK, so miners make money.

I bought Bitcoin a couple years ago and made money on my investment. I also know a bunch of people who made a lot of money on Bitcoin. If PoW is a scam, but miners made money and many investors made money, who was scammed?

From a different perspective, Bitcoin is money. Do we really have to keep making money from money? Is it really Bitcoin's purpose to bring you financial profit?
How about some financial freedom?

Yeah I know everyone has just made a lot of money in Las Vegas too, an nobody has lost any money. I know.

[bitgoldpanther1978]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

This is no doubt definitely a technical matter, and to be honest I'm too weak for this type of conversation.
But anyway, even I don't have any idea about what you are talking about in POS and POW just all I know was
during 2017 this two became popular by that time I just don't know this time.

[MisO69]

Honestly I'm a bit disappointed about this your post OP, you need to do research on the power of demand and supply to really understand proof of work and proof of stake algorithm, calling Algorithms scam doesn't make sense

Can you please explain what exactly is the commodity that is in such high demand here?

Freedom.

In traditional FIAT currencies your money or time if you will is not controlled by you. Financial policies are not controlled by you. At any time the rules of the game can change, and have changed. Just recently we have observed this with the run-away printing of USD.