Both PoW and PoS algos are scams. Here's why.

[serjent05]

If that's what you think, ok then. But you can't replace these consensus with what you are believing but if you have a better proposal to change these algos into the consensus algorithm that you know which is safer and more secured, you can give that proposal or make it happen.

Yes, I actually have. A hybrid Proof-of-Replication, Proof-of-Retrieval and Proof-of-Stake would be better because Proof-of-Replication and Proof-of-Retrieval are used for validating any data. Not only value transactions.

That is kinda interesting concept.  Care to show us how can you secure the data around these concepts?  What method will you use?  How can you prevent hijackers and hackers from modifying the data?  Will you build a centralized panel to control the flaw and verify each transaction? Or will you be using POW or POS to support the security of these concepts?

[FreeStreamer]

If that's what you think, ok then. But you can't replace these consensus with what you are believing but if you have a better proposal to change these algos into the consensus algorithm that you know which is safer and more secured, you can give that proposal or make it happen.

Yes, I actually have. A hybrid Proof-of-Replication, Proof-of-Retrieval and Proof-of-Stake would be better because Proof-of-Replication and Proof-of-Retrieval are used for validating any data. Not only value transactions.

That is kinda interesting concept.  Care to show us how can you secure the data around these concepts?  What method will you use?  How can you prevent hijackers and hackers from modifying the data?  Will you build a centralized panel to control the flaw and verify each transaction? Or will you be using POW or POS to support the security of these concepts?

It's a peer-to-peer distributed permanent database just like a blockchain, but instead of a synchronizing the entire ledger with each transactions, it hashes the data and stores it in just few random anonymous nodes. This way hackers have no idea what to look for and where to look for it. The Proof-of-Replication algorithm replaces PoW as the validator of these events. Proof-of-Retrieval algorithm actually generates value by contributing bandwidth to the network.

[yazher]

Hey OP I think you need to check this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5120117.0 to get educated of what you are blabbering about. You need to understand it first before giving a nonsense judgement about the POS and POW. there are already a huge number of investors who earned a lot with these new coins and many more are gaining some profits with it by holding these coins. Of course, there is some bad side but when you called them all scam that's not really true at all.

[tbct_mt2]

Hey OP I think you need to check this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5120117.0 to get educated of what you are blabbering about. You need to understand it first before giving a nonsense judgement about the POS and POW. there are already a huge number of investors who earned a lot with these new coins and many more are gaining some profits with it by holding these coins. Of course, there is some bad side but when you called them all scam that's not really true at all.

(GUIDE) Masternode, Node, Full Node / Masternode setup with screens. is a good guide on Masternode coins and should be read by people who want to learn what PoS/ masternode coins are.

Let me say some facts about most common accusations of newbie crypto investors on projects they invest money in.

They accused projects are scam because their investments end with losses or worse with serious loses. Reasons behind can be: made wrong enter and exit prices; believe in technology evolutions; believe in promising words from the others; don't do own researches.

If you are in crypto long enough, you will see people called Bitcoin is scam, Ethereum is scam, Dash is scam, Monero is scam. All projects end with loses in their portfolios are scam in their accusations that are not true.

[justdimin]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS.

Are you sure on what you're talking about? Because, I'm not getting what exactly you are trying to emphasize here; probably you have not finished the as it seems only half of what you have thought has been presented here and the rest are yet to be added, it seems so. Am I right?

First you must learn what a scam and what is a system and any system does not need to be profitable but it must serve why it was designed/created and this is what those mining algorithms are doing. Regardless of profitable or not, people are mining cryptos for their own reasons and they are managing somehow to run it till date. (One common assumption is, they are saving mining rewards and selling for greater profits after some period of holding).

Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

[FreeStreamer]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS.

Are you sure on what you're talking about? Because, I'm not getting what exactly you are trying to emphasize here; probably you have not finished the as it seems only half of what you have thought has been presented here and the rest are yet to be added, it seems so. Am I right?

First you must learn what a scam and what is a system and any system does not need to be profitable but it must serve why it was designed/created and this is what those mining algorithms are doing. Regardless of profitable or not, people are mining cryptos for their own reasons and they are managing somehow to run it till date. (One common assumption is, they are saving mining rewards and selling for greater profits after some period of holding).

Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

[H1N1]

The Proof-of-Work algorithm and the Proof-of-Stake algorithms are scams. Proof-of-Work algorithm actually costs more than it makes. This is why every single Proof-of-Work algorithm crypto has to be supported with FIAT money, which honestly speaking makes them all hybrid PoW/PoS. Proof-of-Stake is a scam because it's just money backed with money.

If it is backed by fiat money, then why you say it is scam ? If it is backed by the fiat, then it is real isn't it ?
I think crypto is not a money from thin air, it is from people's money as well. Peoples buy the coin with their money, use the coin for things, creating demands and the coin will be more valuable, other peoples mining it with their miner (which they bought with their money as well).
We want to move from using fiat money to crypto by convert our fiat money to cryptocurrency, either it is from buying or mining.

[Mister.Satan]

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

So to you, anything that does have a self value is not a scam while anything that backed under fiat and nothing else is a scam? That's very simple thinking, akin to black and white and nothing else. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

[FreeStreamer]

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

So to you, anything that does have a self value is not a scam while anything that backed under fiat and nothing else is a scam? That's very simple thinking, akin to black and white and nothing else. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

Not only to me. It's an economic fact. It is very simple. It's not an investment if it does not have self value. It's a liability.

[FreeStreamer]

Everything is backed with money; could you please enlighten me on something which is not backed by money but still people are engaging into it by spending all their efforts and time (and money as well).

Food, energy and minerals are not backed with money. They are commodities with self value that can be bartered any time without money.

So to you, anything that does have a self value is not a scam while anything that backed under fiat and nothing else is a scam? That's very simple thinking, akin to black and white and nothing else. Sorry, I have to disagree with you.

You obviously think there is some magic money machine that can create money from nothing, right? There is not. Any such machine would be just forgery.

[miklesm]

In both of these ways of proof you need something (physycal or crypto resources) to participate in the Network build which is the way to protect blockchain from malicious users and make it unprofitable to try to scam the Network.

[FreeStreamer]

In both of these ways of proof you need something (physycal or crypto resources) to participate in the Network build which is the way to protect blockchain from malicious users and make it unprofitable to try to scam the Network.

Bitcoin is a new innovation. It's a secure P2P electronic payment system, but the network itself does not create any value. That's my point.

[pixie85]

Yeah I know everyone has just made a lot of money in Las Vegas too, an nobody has lost any money. I know.

In the absence of valid arguments all you're left with is sarcasm, I know.

Bitcoin is a new innovation. It's a secure P2P electronic payment system, but the network itself does not create any value. That's my point.

How an Internet network would create value, I'm curious. Is adding a few lines of code in the database creating value or not?

[FreeStreamer]

Yeah I know everyone has just made a lot of money in Las Vegas too, an nobody has lost any money. I know.

In the absence of valid arguments all you're left with is sarcasm, I know.

Bitcoin is a new innovation. It's a secure P2P electronic payment system, but the network itself does not create any value. That's my point.

How an Internet network would create value, I'm curious. Is adding a few lines of code in the database creating value or not?

It's a very valid argument to say that all people just talk about their gains and never about losses and they bullshit about the gains. So I don't believe people when they say that. Sure you might have been among those who who bough low and sold high, but my point is that, that is not a a real user case. It's no real utility to simply have virtual object that fluctuates in value. The Proof-of-Work algorithm just validates the transactions in peer-to-peer network, without the need of a 3rd party middle man as validator. This is indeed a great innovation, but it's just a system. The system itself does not create any value. It's just a tool.

[pixie85]

It's a very valid argument to say that all people just talk about their gains and never about losses and they bullshit about the gains. So I don't believe people when they say that. Sure you might have been among those who who bough low and sold high, but my point is that, that is not a a real user case. It's no real utility to simply have virtual object that fluctuates in value. The Proof-of-Work algorithm just validates the transactions in peer-to-peer network, without the need of a 3rd party middle man as validator. This is indeed a great innovation, but it's just a system.

I'm completely open about my investments and bought at many different levels in 2016 and 2017, most of it below 3000 dollars but some at 5 and 6 as well. I still have these coins so no selling for profit on my part. Holding something that makes me feel safe while being profitable is more than enough for me. I'm not going to chase profit around trading for a few dollars of profit every day. It's a waste of time.

You think those who bought early are not to be believed because those are the lucky few. Did I get it right? Bitcoin remained below 6000 dollars for more than 8 years. That's enough time to be among the lucky few. You underestimate hiw many people on this forum still hold Bitcoins bought for less tha 1000 USD. I can tell you it's a lot.

PayPal also only works as a middleman. A transaction validator. It does something a 1 person acting as escrow could do and its shares are worth 150 EUR a piece. Does it create any value?

The system itself does not create any value. It's just a tool.

A computer program or a domain also don't create value but have value.

[ATSgrowth]

Proof of Work algorithm is currently the most safest consensus what we have. I do not understand the hype around Proof of Stake - have you thought about the problem of PoS consensus? When you find out a bug in a protocol, you can easily destroy the whole history of the blockchain in few seconds!

[FreeStreamer]

Proof of Work algorithm is currently the most safest consensus what we have. I do not understand the hype around Proof of Stake - have you thought about the problem of PoS consensus? When you find out a bug in a protocol, you can easily destroy the whole history of the blockchain in few seconds!

Proof-of-Work is what makes a system independent and P2P unless it's hijacked and rigged like Bitcoin is. Bitcoin was the first and it had these design flaws such as increasing blocksize and transparent ledger that caused the scattered miners and devs to merger into a corporation. For example Monero has a dynamic blocksize and stealth ledger, and anonymous devs, which prevents the hijacking of the network.

[FreeStreamer]

It's a very valid argument to say that all people just talk about their gains and never about losses and they bullshit about the gains. So I don't believe people when they say that. Sure you might have been among those who who bough low and sold high, but my point is that, that is not a a real user case. It's no real utility to simply have virtual object that fluctuates in value. The Proof-of-Work algorithm just validates the transactions in peer-to-peer network, without the need of a 3rd party middle man as validator. This is indeed a great innovation, but it's just a system.

I'm completely open about my investments and bought at many different levels in 2016 and 2017, most of it below 3000 dollars but some at 5 and 6 as well. I still have these coins so no selling for profit on my part. Holding something that makes me feel safe while being profitable is more than enough for me. I'm not going to chase profit around trading for a few dollars of profit every day. It's a waste of time.

You think those who bought early are not to be believed because those are the lucky few. Did I get it right? Bitcoin remained below 6000 dollars for more than 8 years. That's enough time to be among the lucky few. You underestimate hiw many people on this forum still hold Bitcoins bought for less tha 1000 USD. I can tell you it's a lot.

PayPal also only works as a middleman. A transaction validator. It does something a 1 person acting as escrow could do and its shares are worth 150 EUR a piece. Does it create any value?

The system itself does not create any value. It's just a tool.

A computer program or a domain also don't create value but have value.

Ok that's very nice. Congratulations champ. I'm just saying that 2017 wont happen again. It's impossible with so many other projects surging right now.

[wozzek23]

In my eyes, OP is just counting posts and nothing more. I'm not seeing they are providing any valid points to support what is they are trying to argue here.

Bitcoin mining must be billion dollars worth of industry right now hence when if it is a scam, I am sure there cannot be these many people will be working on that. So, when something is existing with us for years and it is serving all its purposes then it is completely meaningless to call it a scam.

POW and POS cannot be scam for any reasons. If they are scam then people definitely will not risk their hard earned money on it. They are just algorithm so the chances for being scam is very very less as far as I am concerned.

[Thomas-s]

Proof of Work algorithm is currently the most safest consensus what we have. I do not understand the hype around Proof of Stake - have you thought about the problem of PoS consensus? When you find out a bug in a protocol, you can easily destroy the whole history of the blockchain in few seconds!

but POW has already been hacked by 51% attack many times and we all have seen how the double spending of coins happened. there is nothing really safety in the cryptocurrency. hackers will always find problem areas in the blockchain and algorithms