nullius abusing his DT powers? Share your thoughts here.

[Scam Exposey]

Recently nullius create this thread about tagging a bounty campaign shit posters

Thread is here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5285730.0

What do you think about this? Since seems nullius is over obsessive and triggered happy for doing such actions.

And I don't really trust his judgement here recently since seems he doesn't even think on what he is doing.

I believe the trust system is not intended for this activities.

And to deal with shit posters we can simply click the report to moderator button for deletion of the post, send a message to campaign manager and to contact the user to correct his post to improve.

Share your thoughts about this guy's since this kind of act is not really helping this community and it could lessen the interest of the users.

nullius seems obsess with red tagging the users here.

Note this is not moderated thread and everyone can share their opinion.

[1714093279]

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[1714093279]

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[suchmoon]

nullius is not in DT. He's jumped the shark big time so hopefully will never get to the point where those ratings are visible by default but you never know. He does have enough votes for DT1 because people can't see the difference between "uses a lot of words" and "has good judgement".

And yes, reporting shitposters is the right way to deal with it. Red trust is not. This has been discussed ad nauseam and it's one of the reasons why merit system exists.

[examplens]

nullius is not in DT. He's jumped the shark big time so hopefully will never get to the point where those ratings are visible by default but you never know. He does have enough votes for DT1 because people can't see the difference between "uses a lot of words" and "has good judgement".

And yes, reporting shitposters is the right way to deal with it. Red trust is not. This has been discussed ad nauseam and it's one of the reasons why merit system exists.

I am just checking whats happened here. I guess you were also guided by the information from BPIP but it seems nullius is on DT1 list if this is correct of the last DT update log by theymos.

To the OP. Usually, if any user abusing his DT power, it made a different effect and they going with ~ on many other DT members trust lists.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I believe the trust system is not intended for this activities.

And to deal with shit posters we can simply click the report to moderator button for deletion of the post, send a message to campaign manager and to contact the user to correct his post to improve.

Agreed, and that's why I excluded nullius from my trust list.  The only reason.  I think he's a brilliant writer, extremely intelligent....but he's not using the trust system correctly.  If a member chronically misuses the trust system, they should be excluded from your trust list--at least that's my policy.

And yes, shitposters should be reported to the mods.  That's the right way to handle that issue now that we have the merit system, which basically prevents them from ranking up and being incentivized to farm accounts and whatnot.  I'm not sure why nullius suddenly wants to start red-tagging shitposters again, because that basically ended in Jan. 2018.

[suchmoon]

I am just checking whats happened here. I guess you were also guided by the information from BPIP but it seems nullius is on DT1 list if this is correct of the last DT update log by theymos.

nullius won the lottery to get into DT1 but is excluded by DT1 peers, currently at -7, so his trust ratings don't have the DT visibility. So for the points raised in the OP - nullius is not in DT.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview

He can still do a "peloso" though (retaliate against other DT1 members by excluding them and otherwise screw around with the DT1 position, albeit "inactive").

[eddie13]

"Abuse" the DT system, I think these words are getting quite meaningless and getting old..
It's an algorithm, how do you abuse an algorithm? It's not like it has a clutch to burn out..

Nullius is doing what he thinks is right, most disagree with him, therefore he is excluded..
Algorithm works..

If most agreed with him then by definition the consensus would have changed.. Algorithm.. Works..

Their isn't really any "abuse" anymore.. (other than threats) The game rules are set, play your best match..
If you get excluded you get excluded, and the opposite..

I see no problem with anyone doing anything they like within the bounds of the DT system.. Just prepare to be excluded if you are against the majority, or included if you are with..
(even pen testers [evil!!], they are valuable too)

Even what theymos said he agrees or disagrees with doesn't matter much anymore, because he is only one voting account (unless he changes the game/rules/algorithm).. The only thing he has really done is blacklisted some alt accounts, and Lauda (lol).. In hindsight, maybe he shouldn't have..


Majority rules, algorithm rules..

[AB de Royse777]

I do not see him in the DT network with ";dt" which means his feedbacks are not making any difference in the trust scoring.

¬snip¬

It makes sense where you are coming from. And with this definition if every one of us starts making our own rules then how things will not mess up?

Let's say hypothetically:
nullius finds a way to tag users who shit-post
eddie13 finds a way to tag users for plagiarizing
suchmoon finds a way to tag users for not agreeing with them in an argument
The Pharmacist finds a way to tag users for multi accounting (even if the accounts are not abusing common rules)
examplens finds a way to tag users who he thinks are not leaving valid feedback
OgNasty finds a way to tag users who favour Vod
Vod finds a way to tag the users who favour OgNasty
Royse777 finds a way to tag a user who distrust them

How will we handle all these?
Clearly there will be no standard, no agreement with each others but a mess up all over.

Edit: I highlighted "hypothetically" to emphasize that all these are just imaginary situations that none of these users are really encouraged to do such.

[suchmoon]

How will we handle all these?
Clearly there will be no standard, no agreement with each others but a mess up all over.

Technically the sum of your inclusions/exclusions will tell you what the "standard" is. If you end up excluded from DT - you're probably non-compliant with the "standard".

The problem is that due to the lottery you can be compliant one month and non-compliant the next month with no change in what you do or how others perceive you. But still, the best you can really do is use a custom trust list and encourage others to do so.

[LoyceV]

I made this: Is nullius still on DT?

[AB de Royse777]

Technically the sum of your inclusions/exclusions will tell you what the "standard" is. If you end up excluded from DT - you're probably non-compliant with the "standard".

The problem is that due to the lottery you can be compliant one month and non-compliant the next month with no change in what you do or how others perceive you. But still, the best you can really do is use a custom trust list and encourage others to do so.

So we are going to see topics like the followings very often:

- #485285 “WhiteManWhite” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for insults
- #aaaaaa “aaaaaaa” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for shit-post
- #bbbbbbbbbbbb “bbbbbbbbbbbb” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for plagiarizing
- #ccccc c“cccccc” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for not agreeing with them in an argument
- #dddddddd “dddddddd” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for multi accounting
- #ccccccccc “ccccccccc” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for not leaving valid feedback
- #eeeeeeee “eeeeeeee” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for not favouring Vod
- #fffffff “fffffff” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for not favouring OgNasty
- #ggggggggg “ggggggggg” trust system abuse: Negative trust feedback for not entrusting him

You see my point?

[suchmoon]

You see my point?

Yes. Use ignore and don't feed the walls of text. Nullius is still excluded from DT so the system kinda sorta works.

[nullius]

Nullius is doing what he thinks is right, most disagree with him,

Indeed.  Anybody who supposes that I would prefer what is popular over what is right has not read even a single word that I have ever written, and probably doesn’t even know how to read.

Their isn't really any "abuse" anymore.. (other than threats) The game rules are set, play your best match..

By all available evidence, a part of the “game rules” is to accuse people of trust system abuse.  Sometimes, the accusations have a rational basis which can be explained with neither repetitious restatements of the labels on things, nor bare appeals to authority, nor chanting the “not related to a trading!!” mantra ad maximam nauseam.  —Sometimes, not.

Majority rules, algorithm rules..

Democracy is ochlocracy.

And yes, reporting shitposters is the right way to deal with it. Red trust is not. This has been discussed ad nauseam and it's one of the reasons why merit system exists.

• I am quite well aware of why the merit system was created.
• Spam and shitposters still exist, despite the merit system (albeit in lesser quantity).  I will make reasonable use of all tools at my disposal.  If you dislike that, please convey your precious opinion >/dev/null.
• As stated below, I also reported that user’s shitpost.  My report was marked as “Good”; and as you can verify for yourself, the post is gone.  For you see:  I do this and that, not this instead of that.  What a difficult concept!
• As stated below, this occurred in the tech forum.  Spammy shitposters SHALL NOT invade the tech forum.  nullius says so.  You wouldn’t understand.

Anyway, because you are a mature adult, and not a small-minded obsessive wrapped up in petty grudges, I must ask:  What are your Very Important Thoughts on negative trust feedback for “fuck you” style insults, made by a DT manipulator who has numerically more inclusions (and more importantly, fewer exclusions) than I do?  Please feel free to share.

nullius is not in DT. He's jumped the shark big time

Half of the reason why I am still here at all is some mild amusement:  Lo, this spectacle of a schoolyard social clique’s popular kids opining that a university professor has “jumped the shark”!  —Metaphorically speaking:  I am but an artist, and an amateur in the original sense of the word.

Alas, you cannot share in the joke other than to serve as its butt; for perforce, your perceptions cannot reach beyond your little world.

Why would I care about DT?

Almost immediately after I returned to the forum in January 2020, I predicted that democratic DT would be an horrific mess.  My contempt for DT is not sour grapes:  It is my response after my foresight proved correct.  And I have been consistently critical of democratic DT ever since then.

What do you think about this? Since seems nullius is over obsessive and triggered happy for doing such actions.

Just for context, that particular shitposter had invaded the Development & Technology forum.  I reported his post, and it was deleted by the moderators (together with my reply, as I myself requested).

Standards are higher in the tech forum.  The culture is quite different there than in Reputation.  And although I have not been very active there lately, I am quite defensive of that forum.  I report much more there, too—and I make my reports with a 100% accuracy score, knowing that the moderators are stricter there than anywhere else!

Although I reserve the right to issue unmoderated negative trust feedback to spammers and shitposters anywhere, I am unlikely to bother outside the tech forum.  Hell, if I were to apply the same standards everywhere, then I would need to tag at least 75% 99% of those who post to Off-topic, and at least 50% of those who post to Politics & Society.  Do I have time for that?  LOL.

Bottom line:  If you are an idiotic, spammy little shitposter, stay the out of the tech forum.

I believe the trust system is not intended for this activities.

Your opinions are duly noted, and filed under “taken under advisement”. 🗑️

Share your thoughts about this guy's

Yes, please share your thoughts about my Satanic reign of pure terror! 

[KaneVWE]

Nullius is not on DT.
It is undeniable that nullius does indeed attempt to abuse the trust system.

People can try to legitimise any reason to leave red trust. These says red tags are worthless.
However one thing that always keeps catching people out is clear double standards.

Double standards are a form of deception and scamming. The changed my mind phoney defense doesn't work since they have the option of undoing their prior actions to fit with their convenient change of mind where the trust system is concerned.

People that have a change of heart or mind that suddenly places them or their pals at an advantage over their prior stated views ....well lol we know all about those generally.

Nullius is dirty in numerous ways.
Doesn't matter if he makes it on to DT. Plenty more like him there.
Double standards pushed for personal gain is their mantra.

[mikeywith]

"Abuse" the DT system, I think these words are getting quite meaningless and getting old..
It's an algorithm, how do you abuse an algorithm? It's not like it has a clutch to burn out..

This would have been true if the existence of the trust system was based on consensus but this is not the case, this isn't BTC blockchain, this forum has admin/s with special privileges therefore it's no longer based on consensus, theymos alone can ban anyone, he can change the algorithm, he can pretty much do anything he wants, and he did set some guideline for the usage of the trust system. if somehow the bad actors become the majority and the trust system doesn't go in the way he wants - he can just change it all together at any given second.

• As stated below, I also reported that user’s shitpost.  My report was marked as “Good”; and as you can verify for yourself, the post is gone.  For you see:  I do this and that, not this instead of that.  What a difficult concept!
• As stated below, this occurred in the tech forum.  Spammy shitposters SHALL NOT invade the tech forum.  nullius says so.  You wouldn’t understand.

If you know reporting works what is the point of negative feedback then? as far as I can see, we have a problem (spam) and a solution (report) and this seems to me like (a problem solved), so where does the feedback fit in old wisdom which states "if there is no problem, don't create one"?.

Tagging spammers won't send them away, they probably don't even look at their own feedback, all it does is devalue the trust system, when almost everyone has red/negative feedback on their trust page, that feedback becomes something normal, hard to notice, and pretty much useless.

[Joel_Jantsen]

"Abuse" the DT system, I think these words are getting quite meaningless and getting old..
It's an algorithm, how do you abuse an algorithm? It's not like it has a clutch to burn out..

You can abuse an algorithm, can't you? Not literally abuse it but misuse it, break it or feed it unexpected inputs so the outputs are unexpected. I don't necessarily agree that the said user has abused the system but you know what OP intended to say.

I see no problem with anyone doing anything they like within the bounds of the DT system.. Just prepare to be excluded if you are against the majority, or included if you are with..
(even pen testers [evil!!], they are valuable too)

What or who defines the bounds of the DT system? Theymos? In that case, the algorithm can only function one way. There are no bounds as such I believe, and every case is handled individual basis.

[Slow death]

[Vod]

@Scam Exposey - you should edit the first post and change the title (nullius is not on DT). 

Or would you like me to help with my moderator powers?