Best Way to Carry Your Seed When Traveling Or Moving Abroad?

[nullius]

But you can divide, and separate the seeds words of your travelling wallet pasted to 3 or more text files,

That is not secure:  An attacker who obtains one or two pieces can then attempt to bruteforce the rest.  If you have a 12-word BIP 39 seed divided that way into 3 pieces, and the first two pieces^* are discovered or seized, then the remainder has only 40 bits of security (!).

* The order matters, because the last piece is partly just checksum material.

Shamir’s Secret Sharing is information-theoretically secure.  If you set it up with 3 shares where all 3 are required (3/3), then an attacker who obtains 2 pieces has zero information about the secret, and cannot bruteforce the rest.

More generally, in an M/N secret sharing setup, M-1 pieces give nothing; M pieces are required to reconstruct the secret, while you can set it up with N>M for redundancy.  If you lose one piece, you don’t want to lose access to the secret!

[jerry0]

You say they can brute force the rest.  Well how many words exposed would make you be very concerned then?


Imagine with a 24 word seed.  Let say you broke it in half.  If someone has half your seed, aren't you still safe from brute force?  Someone mentioned that someone having half of that is essentially like having 0 words of a l2 word electrum seed.


Or imagine you broke it into three parts.  How hard is it for someone to brute force if they have 8 words?  l6 words. 

[oktana]

well what if customs search through my stuff and then see a paper with my seed

How would customs search so deep that they find a piece of paper? Let's imagine the piece of paper is in a book (cause you definitely won't be holding it), how would the customs know you have a paper in the book? They're gonna search through every page? I doubt this. However, I actually speed my phrase online... I multiple places. Places that I believe no one can ever reach, and in ways that people cannot understand (if they found it).

[Wind_FURY]

But you can divide, and separate the seeds words of your travelling wallet pasted to 3 or more text files,

That is not secure:  An attacker who obtains one or two pieces can then attempt to bruteforce the rest.  If you have a 12-word BIP 39 seed divided that way into 3 pieces, and the first two pieces^* are discovered or seized, then the remainder has only 40 bits of security (!).

* The order matters, because the last piece is partly just checksum material.

Shamir’s Secret Sharing is information-theoretically secure.  If you set it up with 3 shares where all 3 are required (3/3), then an attacker who obtains 2 pieces has zero information about the secret, and cannot bruteforce the rest.

More generally, in an M/N secret sharing setup, M-1 pieces give nothing; M pieces are required to reconstruct the secret, while you can set it up with N>M for redundancy.  If you lose one piece, you don’t want to lose access to the secret!

It’s a compromise for convenience while traveling. What would be the success probability of an attacker to bruteforce the account of the file hosting service, bruteforce the tar/zip password, bruteforce the encryption password for one file, and do it again for another file with different file hoating service/tar/encryption passwords? I believe very tiny probability for success, and not worth for a few thousand U.S. Dollars.

[everydayjoe]

Your 24 word seed phrase, each word will be one of these 2048 words listed in BIP39:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt

Look up each of your "REAL" words in the list above, and write down the next "FAKE" word that comes AFTER each real word  (or what ever formula you choose that to easily calculate to the real word).  You will now have a list of 24 fake words.  Carry multiple copies of this fake 24 word list with you.  ALSO, password protect (or not, but less secure) your fake list file and email it to yourself, and post it elsewhere/everywhere on the internet.

When you get to your destination, just download the BIP39 word list, then substitute the fake words for the real words, reversing of course what ever formula you used.

The above is a completely secure, easy to use method, allowing you to either carry, or, not to carry anything physical with you.  You could wash up on the shore naked anywhere that has an internet connection, and re-get full access to your bitcoins.

[Ucy]

I don't think it's ever a good idea to have one key for all your funds. I think it should be possible to split your funds into many parts and have different keys to control them. The seed method would make this alittle difficult because of the length of the words

[bobyhodob]

maybe I have the means, if you travel far away, I can leave your important belongings with relatives you trust or friends you trust

[jerry0]

Your 24 word seed phrase, each word will be one of these 2048 words listed in BIP39:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt

Look up each of your "REAL" words in the list above, and write down the next "FAKE" word that comes AFTER each real word  (or what ever formula you choose that to easily calculate to the real word).  You will now have a list of 24 fake words.  Carry multiple copies of this fake 24 word list with you.  ALSO, password protect (or not, but less secure) your fake list file and email it to yourself, and post it elsewhere/everywhere on the internet.

When you get to your destination, just download the BIP39 word list, then substitute the fake words for the real words, reversing of course what ever formula you used.

The above is a completely secure, easy to use method, allowing you to either carry, or, not to carry anything physical with you.  You could wash up on the shore naked anywhere that has an internet connection, and re-get full access to your bitcoins.

Hmm that sounds very interesting.  Anyone have thoughts on this?  This does sound like a pretty good idea.


Is tht BIP word list always in that order?  If so, this might sound like a good idea.

[aesma]

To me there are two separate cases. Travelling or moving. If travelling, I don't necessarily want to bring all my wealth with me. If I plan on needing BTC I would take a small wallet simply installed on my PC, no need to complicate things.

If moving, or for backup seeds in general, then yeah, some kind of easy mnemonic way to encode it and hide it. The hide part : put it somewhere it's really unlikely to be found. Encode it : even if someone stumbles upon it, it wouldn't jump out as a seed phrase at all. For example it could look like a haiku.

The thing I haven't figured out yet is how to ensure it goes to someone if I were to suddenly die.

[AsongJosh]

I You can safely carry your seed about if it is made into a pictorial form. And that is if the seed is that type that can be so done.

[jerry0]

Anyone have opinion on this?  Again I did mention a while back i store it online as i encrypt it and store it in the cloud which many people seem to be against.  But that protects against fire and theft.



Also what about people who travel and basically don't have a home and like those travel vloggers?  I guess this question would fit them since you hear lot of people who travel and pay everything with crypto.  Where in the world are they storing their seed?  Do they have it with them in person?  That doesn't feel safe at all.  Do they store it in safe deposit boxes in their banks where they are from where they do visit it once a year or so?  But of course have their hardware wallets with them?



I mean of course you could put it in a family or relative place but again, you risk fire and theft or the small chance that person go and takes the coins.

[Rkss4]

I wrote my wallet password and security phases in my daily notebook and when I started to travel then I keep my notebook in my luggage. Though it's a dangerous because when I would lost my luggage them what would be happened?

[vapourminer]

I wrote my wallet password and security phases in my daily notebook and when I started to travel then I keep my notebook in my luggage. Though it's a dangerous because when I would lost my luggage them what would be happened?

important stuff like that goes on carry on luggage or your person only, never put it in checked baggage where TSA pokes around in it. as well as bags going missing of course.

[grabpopcorn536]

There are many ways to store the seeds, I send them to my friends in the email message box or social media. Before I send it I will change a few characters that only I know.
Another way is I send a message in the Saved section of my Telegram account.
If you don't need a cryptocurrency, you don't need to care about the seed chain.

[AniviaBtc]

Absolutely, the answer is through using hardware wallets where you can fully secure your coins without even getting anxious about it.

Instead of storing it in a software wallet like a digital wallet or exchange, it is not that hard to order Ledger Nano X like wallets online.

A hardware wallet is another form of investment but it is a tool that will enhance your security and comfort in a cryptocurrency investment.

[NelfiNovita]

So I'm from the US.  But i travel quite a bit and am outside the US majority of the time.  My seed is stored online.   I do have my hardware wallet nano ledger s with me though.  Now I didn't want to bring my seed with me when traveling because well imagine something happens at customs and my bags get searched... well what if customs search through my stuff and then see a paper with my seed.  And of course there is a chance they know what it is and can write it down etc.  I heard many examples of those workers stealing from luggage, so imagine a search and then they see piece of paper and its words and they know what crypto is.  But that is rare of course.  

I think it is very risky if we bring a piece of paper that says a list of hardware wallets abroad, if someone finds the paper then it will be likely to be subject to customs because it has brought it to a different country. I think it's safer to keep a list of your hardware wallets on the internet such as Google Drive, DropBox, MediaFire etc.

[vapourminer]

There are many ways to store the seeds, I send them to my friends in the email message box or social media. Before I send it I will change a few characters that only I know.
Another way is I send a message in the Saved section of my Telegram account.
If you don't need a cryptocurrency, you don't need to care about the seed chain.

this is the worst possible way to store the seed and the "change a few character that only i know" is next to worthless. might as well publish it on a billboard for all the security it gives.

[vapourminer]

I think it is very risky if we bring a piece of paper that says a list of hardware wallets abroad, if someone finds the paper then it will be likely to be subject to customs because it has brought it to a different country. I think it's safer to keep a list of your hardware wallets on the internet such as Google Drive, DropBox, MediaFire etc.

trezor has modes where you can use it like a yubikey for 2FA and as a password manager, so you could list them as that on your declaration form and technically not be lying.

of course anyone that sees the device itself would know what it is.

to send the hardware wallet itself i would probably have a friend mail it to me later. wipe it in case it gets confiscated and then just restore it (after reflashing the firmware in case it was compromised in transit)

[jerry0]

I heard about yubikey but what happens if its lost or stops working though?

[Gamerholic]

I don't see any problem in keeping a cold wallet with me. It cannot be cracked without a proper password. Taking a sheet of paper with a passphrase or a long, easy-to-copy password with you is not the best way to save your money. Ideally, keep such a sheet under lock and key or in a safe, and certainly not store it on a computer connected to the global network.