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molecular
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June 26, 2013, 02:49:13 PM
 #441


thanks for the update!

  • Added warning when sending funds to a read-only address in your wallet

this doesn't seem to work. to reproduce:

  • update to 0.5.3
  • make new random key
  • delete private key
  • open the key
  • send money to the key
  • answer "no" to "do you want to specify amount?"
  • => qr-code is displayed. no warning was displayed

The warning is shown in red on the send summary page just before you sign and send the transaction.
Here are my steps to reproduce:
  • Install 0.5.3
  • import key with funds
  • import bitcoin address (or create random key + address, then delete key)
  • open bitcoin address, click QR code, copy to clipboard
  • open key with funds
  • send -> Clipboard-> enter amount -> Warning shown on summary page

Warning: You are monitoring this address, but you cannot spend coins from it unless you have the private key elsewhere.

ah, ok. a misunderstanding. I wanted the user to be warned when he uses the "receive" button on a address mycelium doesn't have the key to.

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molecular
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June 26, 2013, 02:52:09 PM
 #442

I guess I know why it is the way it is but from a user perspective it is annoying to have a list of "wallets" without balances on them. I wouldn't want to have to hit all of my 20 wallets, hit open, wait for a balance to load from the server, swipe left, scroll down searching for where I was last to find a suiting wallet to pay whatever I'm about to pay now.

I fully agree.

Neither do I like that I have to click twice to open a wallet. This should be the default behavior when clicking wallets.
Alternatively add buttons to "update balance", "open", etc.

how to get to the context-menu (delete key, delete address,...) then? long-press? would make sense.

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June 26, 2013, 03:01:02 PM
 #443

your concerns about wallet management are heard. we will find a simple solution for that.
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June 26, 2013, 04:19:47 PM
 #444

Neither do I like that I have to click twice to open a wallet. This should be the default behavior when clicking wallets.
Alternatively add buttons to "update balance", "open", etc.
how to get to the context-menu (delete key, delete address,...) then? long-press? would make sense.
[/quote]

Long press is common but 50% of your users will not find the config button if you make it red and occupy 50% of the space, so long press will reach about 5% of the users without watching the how-to videos on youtube. Seriously, I know what I'm talking about. 20% of customers contacting me request features that exist in fluxcards. They just didn't find the context menu even after I added a menu button right in front of their noses. The screen of my app that you use 90% of the time, has a dedicated menu button and people don't press it. (granted it is not the best design for a button but still I thought people assuming it not to be a button, would hit it accidentally anyways)

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June 26, 2013, 06:32:33 PM
 #445

...
ah, ok. a misunderstanding. I wanted the user to be warned when he uses the "receive" button on a address mycelium doesn't have the key to.

I see.
For some reason I was certain that you sent it to the address in your clipboard.
I'll add a warning for the other use-case as well. I am going on vacation Friday morning, but will see if I can get it in before that. If Andreas spins a release while I am gone it will appear there.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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June 27, 2013, 11:56:37 AM
 #446

How to export your private key to paper without using a virus infected computer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7V2myIwAuE

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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June 27, 2013, 09:28:35 PM
 #447

I have a quick question.

Can BitcoinSpinner sign messages using the user's private keys?

If so, how?  And if not, what is the easiest way for a BitcoinSpinner user to prove to me that he sent a particular transaction?

Edit: to answer my own question, it appears that BitcoinSpinner uses the same address for all transactions, so I can simply ask the user to send a particular specific amount to himself to prove he controls the wallet.  I guess that's not great, because I could still be talking to a man-in-the-middle who then makes up a reason to ask the real owner of the wallet to send that same amount to himself.  But it's close.

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June 28, 2013, 08:44:32 AM
 #448

I have a quick question.

Can BitcoinSpinner sign messages using the user's private keys?

If so, how?  And if not, what is the easiest way for a BitcoinSpinner user to prove to me that he sent a particular transaction?

Edit: to answer my own question, it appears that BitcoinSpinner uses the same address for all transactions, so I can simply ask the user to send a particular specific amount to himself to prove he controls the wallet.  I guess that's not great, because I could still be talking to a man-in-the-middle who then makes up a reason to ask the real owner of the wallet to send that same amount to himself.  But it's close.

Workaround: export the private key, use another client (like bitcoin-qt) to sign the message. Sucks, but that's the only thing I can think of.

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July 01, 2013, 09:53:54 AM
 #449

I've been using the Mycelium Wallet now, and I'm loving it. There are a few things that I noticed. First of all, the program seems to label itself as "Barcode Scanner". Secondly, I'd really like the possibility to sign messages with this wallet.

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July 01, 2013, 12:30:34 PM
 #450

I've been using the Mycelium Wallet now, and I'm loving it. There are a few things that I noticed. First of all, the program seems to label itself as "Barcode Scanner". Secondly, I'd really like the possibility to sign messages with this wallet.

thanks for bringing this to my attention. this should definitely not happen, and the reason is a name collision between the bundled barcode scanner.
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July 03, 2013, 06:27:38 PM
 #451

I just tested Mycelium. Here are my immediate thoughts about it:

Most surprising is the application name, "Barcode scanner", which is unexpected to say the least? Did you perhaps fork that project to get started and forgot to change the manifest?

Functionality-wise I think everything is there. It is however a bit unclear what happends when you add more keys. Do transactions affect only one key at a time? If I had half a bitcoin on each of two addresses, could I send one bitcoin in a transaction? This is not explained nor clearly reflected in the UI. Would deleting a key make the corresponding funds inaccessible? How is this reflected in the main screen? Is it even allowed (didn't dare to test this).

On to the user interface: The gradients look a bit out of place in an Android GUI. There are some Holo guidelines which may help here. Swiping is discoverable because of the animated arrows in the main screen but is otherwise quite unexpected.

There are some visual incosistencies. "Keys & Addresses" is monospace for no reason, "Transaction history" centered and larger(!) for no reason, "No Transaction Records" is big and slanted which looks strange. It is probably to make an interface consistent from the start than plan a redesign (for which there is often never a good time).

What does "Set Label" in the main screen menu do, as opposed to setting a label in the Keys & Addresses screen? Why is "Address Book" the only screen which you access via the menu, while the other screens are accesses by swiping?

I couldn't understand how to use the address book at all. It opened empty and there is no obvious way to add an entry.

Payments could not be entered manually, only entered in another program and transferred via the clipboard. I understand it is not the most user friendly way to do payments but sometimes it is necessary. It's not nice to be stuck if you promise to sell someone a bitcoin and they show their address on a small piece of paper.

Thanks for writing the software. I don't think it's completely ready for general use just yet but it's promising. I'd be happy to write more about it after I had a chance to really use it for payments (sadly, those opportunities are far in between where I live).
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July 04, 2013, 08:00:43 AM
 #452

The successor of BitcoinSpinner is now available for open beta on Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mycelium.wallet
The sources are published here: https://github.com/mycelium-com/wallet
Apart from a total rewrite the wallet has a new name: Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet
The security model of the Mycelium wallet is the same as for BitcoinSpinner: Your private key only leaves your device if you choose to export it.

In addition to having all the features of BitcoinSpinner it boasts an impressive set of new features, many of which were asked for in this thread:
  • Private key import (also Casascius private keys)
  • Manage multiple keys/addresses
  • Redundant backend servers with client side load balancing
  • Uses new fee rules (0.0001 pr 1000 bytes, etc)
  • Switch between BTC/fiat when sending coins
  • Switch between BTC/fiat amount when making a payment request
  • Export private key to SD card (allows printing without intermediary computer)
  • Change Bitcoin denomination: BTC, mBTC, uBTC
  • Integrated QR scanner
  • Landscape mode
  • Improved transaction history
  • View transaction details: tx hash, block#, inputs/outputs

apetersson and I have been working really hard on developing this. We hope you like it and leave a 5 star review on Google Play.

Our thanks go to Jethro, who has done an astounding job testing all the corners of the wallet on many devices.
The new client is just awesome! Fast, easy to use, easy to backup! Exactly what is needed to pay for something in the real world (like my drink at the bar yesterday).

To backup I simply scanned a private key from one of these http://bitaddress.org / https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43496   Everything was done in seconds.

Quote
The Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet deserves its own thread, but we would like to announce it in this thread first and let the hard-core BitcoinSpinner users give us some feedback.
Please start the new thread, I would like to link to it.



Notes:

When scanning a private key it should warn the user that anyone with access to that key can steal the coins on it (e.g. do not give that piece of paper out of hand!), maybe give an option to swipe and throw away the privkey.

The zero was missing from the PIN enter dialog on horizontal screen.


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Jan
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July 04, 2013, 08:49:29 AM
 #453

Thanks for the through feedback. Much appreciated. This is vacation week for me. I'll get to work on your suggestions next week.

I just tested Mycelium. Here are my immediate thoughts about it:

Most surprising is the application name, "Barcode scanner", which is unexpected to say the least? Did you perhaps fork that project to get started and forgot to change the manifest?

This is the case on some phones, I haven't seen it myself though. Initially the barcode scanner was external, but for security reasons (and ease of installation) we have embedded the Zxing barcode scanner. For some reason the app claims the name of the barcode scanner instead of Mycelium. Will investigate and fix. Is the app icon on your phone that of the barcode scanner or is it the Mycelium logo?

Functionality-wise I think everything is there. It is however a bit unclear what happends when you add more keys. Do transactions affect only one key at a time? If I had half a bitcoin on each of two addresses, could I send one bitcoin in a transaction? This is not explained nor clearly reflected in the UI. Would deleting a key make the corresponding funds inaccessible? How is this reflected in the main screen? Is it even allowed (didn't dare to test this).

Right now you are working on one key at a time, and we are changing that. Many users have requested an aggregated view of all keys, and this is also what you see in other wallets. We are still in beta and collecting feedback Wink

On to the user interface: The gradients look a bit out of place in an Android GUI. There are some Holo guidelines which may help here.
Link?
Swiping is discoverable because of the animated arrows in the main screen but is otherwise quite unexpected.

There has been much tweaking and fiddling with swiping to make it visually apparent. Still nobody (except me) like the way it works now. I'll give it another stab.
 

There are some visual incosistencies. "Keys & Addresses" is monospace for no reason, "Transaction history" centered and larger(!) for no reason, "No Transaction Records" is big and slanted which looks strange. It is probably to make an interface consistent from the start than plan a redesign (for which there is often never a good time).

Will fix.

What does "Set Label" in the main screen menu do, as opposed to setting a label in the Keys & Addresses screen?

"Set Label" sets the label of the currently selected key or address. Will get refactored once we go to "aggregated key view".

Why is "Address Book" the only screen which you access via the menu, while the other screens are accesses by swiping?

Will add the others

I couldn't understand how to use the address book at all. It opened empty and there is no obvious way to add an entry.

I have been working on adding an "Add" button, which allows you to add an address by scanning or from clipboard. Will make it for next release.
 
Payments could not be entered manually, only entered in another program and transferred via the clipboard. I understand it is not the most user friendly way to do payments but sometimes it is necessary. It's not nice to be stuck if you promise to sell someone a bitcoin and they show their address on a small piece of paper.
By payments I guess you mean the address.
Have you really ever entered an address manually? How long time did it take to do it right? I haven't, and it is bound to be a huge pain, especially on an android device.
Andreas and I have discussed this quite a few times. His thinking is that we should allow for firstbits and address shorteners such as http://payb.tc/
It will probably not be in the next few releases.
Thanks for writing the software. I don't think it's completely ready for general use just yet but it's promising. I'd be happy to write more about it after I had a chance to really use it for payments (sadly, those opportunities are far in between where I live).
Great feedback, keep it coming  Smiley

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July 04, 2013, 08:55:33 AM
 #454

...
The new client is just awesome! Fast, easy to use, easy to backup! Exactly what is needed to pay for something in the real world (like my drink at the bar yesterday).

To backup I simply scanned a private key from one of these http://bitaddress.org / https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=43496   Everything was done in seconds.

Quote
The Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet deserves its own thread, but we would like to announce it in this thread first and let the hard-core BitcoinSpinner users give us some feedback.
Please start the new thread, I would like to link to it.



Notes:

When scanning a private key it should warn the user that anyone with access to that key can steal the coins on it (e.g. do not give that piece of paper out of hand!), maybe give an option to swipe and throw away the privkey.
We are warning when exporting a key (not when importing), which I think is the right place...
We are going to add a special "cold storage spending" wizard, which will not store the key on the phone (no more add-key + spend + delete-key). The key will only be in memory while making the transaction.

The zero was missing from the PIN enter dialog on horizontal screen.
I see. Will add a scrollbar or find another solution when entering pin in horizontal mode.

Thanks for the feedback

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July 04, 2013, 11:32:15 AM
 #455

Noticed that I didn't post the complete list of 0.5.4 features:
- Added add-to-address-book button on send summary
- Displaying name of receiver in send summary if the receiving address is in the address book
- Made back-button in Keys & Addresses take you to balance view instead of quitting
- Fixed an issue that made the app appear sluggish in most views (you will notice that one)
- Properly centering of "Show to Sender" text when receiving coins
- Displaying a warning if you request to receive coins to an address which is not associated with a private key
- Keys & Addresses: Smaller address font size, and showing showing partial one-liner address for records with labels

Andreas just published version 0.5.5:
- Fixed issue where app name appears as Barcode Scanner on some devices
- No longer asking user whether to export keys as PNG/JPG when exporting to SD card. Always using JPG

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July 04, 2013, 04:38:43 PM
 #456

Jan, for a vacation week, you're posting quite a lot Wink

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July 04, 2013, 05:44:37 PM
 #457

Right now you are working on one key at a time, and we are changing that. Many users have requested an aggregated view of all keys, and this is also what you see in other wallets. We are still in beta and collecting feedback Wink
Nooo!!! Please don't! The privacy implications of having control not to mix keys when sending is quite valuable. Sure, getting the change back to the same key is a privacy drawback but please think up something that solves both issues.

http://bluebox.com/corporate-blog/bluebox-uncovers-android-master-key/
Mycelium user affected? What would the attack scenario be? Some guy at google tampering with mycelium.apk? Some guy at Verizon tampering with the "Standard-Verizon-clock-widget"? shady.com offering mycelium.apk with a "good" signature? Some guy at Rovio updating angrybirds.apk with a hidden permission?

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July 04, 2013, 06:21:43 PM
 #458

Jan, for a vacation week, you're posting quite a lot Wink
Woops... Guilty. I am not coding, posting is different  Grin

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July 04, 2013, 06:29:23 PM
 #459

Is the app icon on your phone that of the barcode scanner or is it the Mycelium logo?

The icon is the correct Mycelium one (but perhaps you knew that already, seeing there is already a fix out).

Right now you are working on one key at a time, and we are changing that. Many users have requested an aggregated view of all keys, and this is also what you see in other wallets.

Yeah, that would be useful, but it is also extremely hard to get the user interface right. Deleting keys would perhaps change the total in unexpected ways and change addresses could quickly get confusing unless it is really apparent what is happening. (Which in turn may be way too much information for some users.)

That's probably why Bitcoin-Qt is designed the way it is and also why the Schildbach Wallet avoided the same problem in another way. It's tricky to get right.

On to the user interface: The gradients look a bit out of place in an Android GUI. There are some Holo guidelines which may help here.
Link?

I believe they are on developer.android.org. It might be a tad much to read, but there is information about which color palette is standard in Holo UI's, which could be a simple way to make it look more consistent with the rest of the phone.

There has been much tweaking and fiddling with swiping to make it visually apparent. Still nobody (except me) like the way it works now. I'll give it another stab.

Yeah, sorry, I'm far from a professional here. I am also more proficient with code than user experience so I can't give advice worth anything. I can just say that it feels slightly out of place (especially with the address book available elsewhere). Sorry that I can't be more specific. Perhaps someone else with more experience can pitch in here?
 
"Set Label" sets the label of the currently selected key or address. Will get refactored once we go to "aggregated key view".

This would also need to change for an aggregated view to be understandable, yes. Not an easy problem, it is (to quote the great Yoda).

By payments I guess you mean the address. Have you really ever entered an address manually? How long time did it take to do it right? I haven't, and it is bound to be a huge pain, especially on an android device. Andreas and I have discussed this quite a few times. His thinking is that we should allow for firstbits and address shorteners

Yes, yes, it took a minute or two of nervous double checking, and yes it is indeed a pain. But when someone presents you with a hand written address, what else is there to do? (I have also brought a hand written note. Thanks for having the patience, you know who you are.) I think it is best to at least offer the opportunity to type manually, otherwise you are put in an even more complicated situation where you need to utilize the clipboard and another application.
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July 04, 2013, 06:37:08 PM
 #460

Nooo!!! Please don't! The privacy implications of having control not to mix keys when sending is quite valuable. Sure, getting the change back to the same key is a privacy drawback but please think up something that solves both issues.

please bring forth your suggestions on how to solve this.

regarding the new akp attack: obviously it is neccessary to patch it. BUT
the way i see it currently the following can happen:

user downloads an apk. any MITM could now alter the apk. with "regular" apps this is also not a problem, except if they use other exploits.

it is a problem if the user downloads a "system" apk and installs it. for example an update to HTC sense. if an attacker now manages to modify the apk before it is installed - for example via malware on the server, a router or an intermediary PC - he can execute whatever code he likes with the access privileges of the original app.

i still don't know why play store is unaffected - it is kind of hard to MITM play store downloads and additionally the play store installer might do some more checksum checking.
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