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Author Topic: BitcoinSpinner  (Read 51203 times)
jago25_98
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May 13, 2012, 11:12:03 PM
 #201


 Do you guys think it's more secure to use this than a XP machine with a load of pirated software installed?

I mean, perhaps it's easier to keep an Android phone locked down than it is to keep a laptop secure.

- If you use whole disk encryption on Android ICS and a pin code... does that protect the wallet?
- where does Bitcoinspinner store the wallet file in case we want to work with it manually? (encrypt it manually or back it up)

 Just to remind, if you use this be sure to note the private key because many people have a habit of updating to a custom ROM and then wiping everything.

 I was thinking of having a phone purely for secure applications with open source stuff only on it. Having this separte sandbox like system of a separate phone could be more secure than trying to keep a whole O/S secure...

 Note that you can generate QR codes online for easy backup restore too
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Jan
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May 14, 2012, 12:00:47 AM
 #202


 Do you guys think it's more secure to use this than a XP machine with a load of pirated software installed?

I mean, perhaps it's easier to keep an Android phone locked down than it is to keep a laptop secure.

- If you use whole disk encryption on Android ICS and a pin code... does that protect the wallet?
- where does Bitcoinspinner store the wallet file in case we want to work with it manually? (encrypt it manually or back it up)

 Just to remind, if you use this be sure to note the private key because many people have a habit of updating to a custom ROM and then wiping everything.

 I was thinking of having a phone purely for secure applications with open source stuff only on it. Having this separte sandbox like system of a separate phone could be more secure than trying to keep a whole O/S secure...

 Note that you can generate QR codes online for easy backup restore too
If you use a dedicated Android device and keep it in a safe location I would argue that it is a lot more secure than a Windows XP machine.
The private key is derived from a long seed which is stored in app-private data. Each app has its own user identity, and they cannot "touch each others private parts". To get to the file you need to have root privileges on the device.
Regarding backup, BitcoinSpinner has backup/restore functionality that allows you to backup the seed file on a QR-code (You can also copy it to clipboard). This allows you to keep a paper copy that you can restore onto another BitcoinSpinner instance on another Andriod device.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
jago25_98
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May 14, 2012, 01:17:50 PM
 #203

To me BCSpinner feels more reliable than any other client so I was thinking of using it as my main client. Being on a phone it seems to me like a better place to work with coins than even the desktop. I'm actually saying that I think I prefer this to the official client.

The only thing is that this would mean carrying round a wallet.dat unencrypted, which is no good.

2 ways round this I can think of:

1) Have a balance of zero on the phone most of the time and when I want to use it, restore a private key from a source that requires a password. This could be somewhere remote, like a ssh server, or things locally encrypted. This would work. Perhaps the process could be intregrated with APG.

2) Encrypt the wallet.dat locally. The only thing is that I can't find a wallet.dat file on the phone. This is a shame because I could automate this with tasker. Should the wallet.dat be stored on the sdcard or is it best on the data partition?

or

3) Try to secure the whole phone. Seems like a lot of work... may not even be possible...
4) Use app protector apps. Haven't seen a very convincing one so far.
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May 14, 2012, 05:02:54 PM
 #204

To me BCSpinner feels more reliable than any other client so I was thinking of using it as my main client. Being on a phone it seems to me like a better place to work with coins than even the desktop. I'm actually saying that I think I prefer this to the official client.

The only thing is that this would mean carrying round a wallet.dat unencrypted, which is no good.

2 ways round this I can think of:

1) Have a balance of zero on the phone most of the time and when I want to use it, restore a private key from a source that requires a password. This could be somewhere remote, like a ssh server, or things locally encrypted. This would work. Perhaps the process could be intregrated with APG.

2) Encrypt the wallet.dat locally. The only thing is that I can't find a wallet.dat file on the phone. This is a shame because I could automate this with tasker. Should the wallet.dat be stored on the sdcard or is it best on the data partition?

or

3) Try to secure the whole phone. Seems like a lot of work... may not even be possible...
4) Use app protector apps. Haven't seen a very convincing one so far.

BitcoinSpinner has no wallet.dat file as you know it from the Satoshi client, but a seed file containing the random seed used for generating your keys. The seed file is the one that you can backup/restore using a QR-code.

How about this:
You have two laminated pieces of paper each containing a QR-code backup of a wallet. One wallet is for your small change, and another is for your vault. Whenever you need to access your vault:
1. you restore the vault wallet from the vault QR-code backup
2. do your spending, which could be to send coins to your small change account
3. you restore your small change wallet from the small change QR-code backup.

Combine this with having the both bitcoin addresses in your address book, and the process should take less then a minute.

Once you have completed step 3 the "vault" is overwritten with the "small change" wallet, so if you loose the phone only your "small change" wallet is at risk.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
marty_mc_fly
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May 16, 2012, 03:14:07 AM
 #205

Jan,
Love the client.

I'd like to be able to import any private key into BitcoinSpinnner.
I keep a handful of paper wallets with QR codes that I generated using bitaddress.org.

When I scan the QR code for the private key I get a pop-open that says "Invalid QR-code!".
I'm guessing this is because BitcoinSpinner is looking for the seed not the private key itself.

Is there a way to import a private key into BitcoinSpinner?  If not, could there be?

TIA
-marty

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Jan
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May 16, 2012, 01:57:27 PM
 #206

Jan,
Love the client.

I'd like to be able to import any private key into BitcoinSpinnner.
I keep a handful of paper wallets with QR codes that I generated using bitaddress.org.

When I scan the QR code for the private key I get a pop-open that says "Invalid QR-code!".
I'm guessing this is because BitcoinSpinner is looking for the seed not the private key itself.

Is there a way to import a private key into BitcoinSpinner?  If not, could there be?

TIA
-marty

Thanks.

BitcoinSpinner uses a deterministic wallet where keys are generated from a large random seed, and this is what you backup/restore in a QR-code. This allows you to generate as many keys as you like and still have simple and elegant backup/restore functionality.
Because of this you cannot import arbitrary keys, as they would not fit into the stream of deterministically generated keys.
Furthermore, the sever backend is only tracking transactions sent to known public keys. In other words, the server needs to know the public key before a transaction to it occurs in the block chain. This limitation greatly reduces the memory footprint and price of running the service, which is provided for free.

Note: The current version only allows you to generate/manage one key at a time. This is a simplification that allows BitcoinSpinner to have a simpler UI and be easier to use, and puts less pressure on the server side.  I may change this in the future, however the paramount design principles for BitcoinSpinner are security and simplicity.


Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
pazor
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May 16, 2012, 11:41:26 PM
 #207

i like the bitcoin client Bitcoin Spinner

it is fast with easy handling and it has nice backup/restore functions !

thank you!

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June 27, 2012, 04:42:21 AM
 #208

Jan,

in your app, the bottom half of the screen (Send Bitcoins and Transaction History) is greyed out.  I've force-stopped the app twice and even completely rebooted my phone.  What does tihs mean?

0.6.0b

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Jan
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June 27, 2012, 05:13:20 AM
 #209

Jan,

in your app, the bottom half of the screen (Send Bitcoins and Transaction History) is greyed out.  I've force-stopped the app twice and even completely rebooted my phone.  What does tihs mean?

0.6.0b

Tony

Hi Tony,
It means that I am reloading the block chain due to a software update on the server side ;-)
I should probably have announced this in advance. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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June 27, 2012, 05:50:00 AM
 #210

Hi Tony,
It means that I am reloading the block chain due to a software update on the server side ;-)
I should probably have announced this in advance. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem, we had to do the same thing earlier this month.  i'll check again in the morning.

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June 27, 2012, 05:55:14 AM
 #211

Hi Tony,
It means that I am reloading the block chain due to a software update on the server side ;-)
I should probably have announced this in advance. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem, we had to do the same thing earlier this month.  i'll check again in the morning.
Done, up and running again.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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June 28, 2012, 06:46:21 AM
 #212

Upgrading server side (again). ETA <2 hours. Sorry for the inconvenience.

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July 10, 2012, 09:38:57 AM
 #213

Still really need to be able to send/receive amount of Bitcoins based on value x in currency y.
Its cruzial to get mom and pops to use and accept Bitcoin.

And would also be great if you could make the current value based on more than mtgox.
Since its a liability that everywhere the value is based on a single point of failure.

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July 10, 2012, 03:59:49 PM
 #214

Still really need to be able to send/receive amount of Bitcoins based on value x in currency y.
Its cruzial to get mom and pops to use and accept Bitcoin.

And would also be great if you could make the current value based on more than mtgox.
Since its a liability that everywhere the value is based on a single point of failure.


What recommendations would you make regarding how to determine the value?

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July 10, 2012, 04:59:44 PM
 #215

Still really need to be able to send/receive amount of Bitcoins based on value x in currency y.
Its cruzial to get mom and pops to use and accept Bitcoin.

And would also be great if you could make the current value based on more than mtgox.
Since its a liability that everywhere the value is based on a single point of failure.


What recommendations would you make regarding how to determine the value?


BitcoinSpinner could use the XChange project, which is designed to give a unified object model across multiple exchanges. It serves up Mt Gox data at the moment but I am sure there will be more in time. This would minimise the single point of failure as you could look up exchange rates at multiple exchanges.

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Jan
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July 10, 2012, 05:26:26 PM
 #216

Still really need to be able to send/receive amount of Bitcoins based on value x in currency y.
Its cruzial to get mom and pops to use and accept Bitcoin.

And would also be great if you could make the current value based on more than mtgox.
Since its a liability that everywhere the value is based on a single point of failure.


What recommendations would you make regarding how to determine the value?


BitcoinSpinner could use the XChange project, which is designed to give a unified object model across multiple exchanges. It serves up Mt Gox data at the moment but I am sure there will be more in time. This would minimise the single point of failure as you could look up exchange rates at multiple exchanges.

Interesting, do you have a link? Is MultiBit using the XChange project?

On single point of failure: If MtGox is down BitcoinSpinner will still work. The amount in your local currency will simply not show. I wouldn't call this a failure.
Right now MtGox is defining the market price as they have more business than the rest of the exchanges combined. I am not saying that I won't look into this, but there are other features that are higher on my list.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
jim618
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July 10, 2012, 06:26:03 PM
 #217

Hi Jan,

The project is here:
https://github.com/timmolter/XChange

Yes I use it for the currency ticker in MultiBit. You quite a nice object model to use. I have a timer that runs every 20 seconds here:
https://github.com/jim618/multibit/blob/v0.4/src/main/java/org/multibit/exchange/TickerTimerTask.java

There is also quite a lot of market data (that could be used for depth charts) but I have not delved into that.

I think Tim Molter (the lead dev) has been working on a Intersango module but the MtGox was the first one done (as everyone uses that).

It is in the same repo as bitcoinj so you just need something like:
    <repository>
     <id>xchange-snapshot</id>
     <snapshots/>
     <url>http://nexus.bitcoinj.org/content/repositories/snapshots</url>
   </repository>

and
  <dependency>
      <groupId>com.xeiam.xchange</groupId>
      <artifactId>xchange</artifactId>
      <version>1.0.1</version>
      <scope>compile</scope>
    </dependency>

in your pom.

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July 11, 2012, 12:29:55 AM
 #218

On single point of failure: If MtGox is down BitcoinSpinner will still work. The amount in your local currency will simply not show. I wouldn't call this a failure.
Right now MtGox is defining the market price as they have more business than the rest of the exchanges combined. I am not saying that I won't look into this, but there are other features that are higher on my list.

Having actually used BitcoinSpinner in real life to pay for real physical goods in a very hectic fast-paced environment, I would strongly urge you to make this a high priority. The amount of time it takes me to open Calculator and figure out how many bitcoins to spend, and then go back to BitcoinSpinner to enter in the amount, makes it difficult to justify using Bitcoins with this app. Not to mention it's also very unfriendly, which will put off people less enthusiastic about Bitcoin as I am.

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Jan
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July 11, 2012, 01:11:17 AM
 #219

On single point of failure: If MtGox is down BitcoinSpinner will still work. The amount in your local currency will simply not show. I wouldn't call this a failure.
Right now MtGox is defining the market price as they have more business than the rest of the exchanges combined. I am not saying that I won't look into this, but there are other features that are higher on my list.

Having actually used BitcoinSpinner in real life to pay for real physical goods in a very hectic fast-paced environment, I would strongly urge you to make this a high priority. The amount of time it takes me to open Calculator and figure out how many bitcoins to spend, and then go back to BitcoinSpinner to enter in the amount, makes it difficult to justify using Bitcoins with this app. Not to mention it's also very unfriendly, which will put off people less enthusiastic about Bitcoin as I am.
Please don't get me wrong. Allowing you to enter an amount in for instance USD instead of BTC is a very relavant feature, which I am going to add. However, taking exchange rates from multiple exchanges into consideration is not high on my list.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
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July 11, 2012, 01:22:16 AM
 #220

Please don't get me wrong. Allowing you to enter an amount in for instance USD instead of BTC is a very relavant feature, which I am going to add. However, taking exchange rates from multiple exchanges into consideration is not high on my list.

OK, sorry, I somehow missed that part. I agree that looking at multiple exchanges probably isn't very high priority. But being able to enter an amount in local fiat currency and have it automatically converted is (in my opinion).

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