Why I wouldn't buy Ledger ever again?

[crwth]

I thought this was a new topic, so I read all of it, assuming it was recent. In my mind, it's like "Hmm, I know these drawbacks are really something to be improved upon", but seeing the date this was posted, and it seems like there's no resolution to them, it's non-improving. It still has the same cons, so purchasing a new one would be the case.

I recall reporting phishing emails that pretended to be from them, and I provided the necessary attachments, but they no longer responded. I tried following up, but to no avail.

[dkbit98]

I will get straight to the point, don't waste your money on this new money grab ''signer'' device from ledger called Nano Gen5! 
This has to be most boring release of hardware wallets I ever saw, boring name, plastic crap, closed source, and they are not offering anything new, except maybe e-paper screen.
After this new €179 device is released I have a feeling one of the older ledger devices could retire, maybe notorious nono X.


https://shop.ledger.com/pages/ledger-nano-gen5

[FinneysTrueVision]

I will get straight to the point, don't waste your money on this new money grab ''signer'' device from ledger called Nano Gen5! 
This has to be most boring release of hardware wallets I ever saw, boring name, plastic crap, closed source, and they are not offering anything new, except maybe e-paper screen.
After this new €179 device is released I have a feeling one of the older ledger devices could retire, maybe notorious nono X.

The timing seems like they are trying to upstage Trezor. They did not put much effort into this new product. Looking at it side by side with the Flex and Stax, they just keep releasing the same wallet but with a different outer shell with cheaper materials.

Without any innovative new features or an upgrade in its security, this is nothing more than a pure money grab.

[Pmalek]

I will get straight to the point, don't waste your money on this new money grab ''signer'' device from ledger called Nano Gen5! 
This has to be most boring release of hardware wallets I ever saw, boring name, plastic crap, closed source, and they are not offering anything new, except maybe e-paper screen.

Another touchscreen hardware wallet to add to their collection that includes the Stax and Flex. This one is cheaper than the first two. Regarding the specs, it really doesn't offer anything new or useful. Announcing it as "the most playful way to take control of your digital life" shows that they only released this device for the sake of releasing a new device because it was time. 

It ships with their Ledger Recovery Key, like Stax and Flex. Their target audience are meme coin and NFT collectors. There are options to change the lockscreen to badges that some graphic designer created. And yes, you have to purchase these badge collections separately. I think a pack costs €19. My God.    
In terms of connectivity, there is USB-C, NFC, and Bluetooth. The size of the display is 2.8”, the same as for the Flex but with no Gorilla Glass protection.

[SFR10]

This has to be most boring release of hardware wallets I ever saw, boring name, plastic crap, closed source, and they are not offering anything new, except maybe e-paper screen.

Technically, the e-ink screen is also not new since both of their previous so-called HWs also have it, but a representative mentioned in "this video ^{[skip to 0:22]}" that it has a big capacity for apps and I wonder if anyone knows the exact capacity.
^{- BTW, I wouldn't be surprised to see one day, Ledger releases a product for kids (they're already halfway there)!}

[FinneysTrueVision]

I saw this about their new Ledger Multisig product. They are charging a $10 flat fee for regular transactions and a 0.05% fee for token transfers. This isn’t even like Electrum’s TrustedCoin where TrustedCoin is co-signing your transactions, this is just a fee for using the multisig application with your own devices. Ledger is doing nothing besides providing an alternative interface to Safe Wallet, which is free to use.

[dkbit98]

Here is another reason why everyone should stay away from ledger devices.
Jameson Lopp just made a post on twitter X with screenshot showing swollen crap battery on ledger flex device.
Same as Jaemson, I don't like integrated batteries on hardware wallets that can't be removed easily.

This is why I'm skeptical of signing devices that have permanent batteries installed. Just pulled a Ledger Flex out of storage (in optimal cool & dry conditions) and the battery has swollen and burst out the back panel. Device still works but only when plugged in.

https://x.com/lopp/status/1995857959164018922

[tenant48]

Here is another reason why everyone should stay away from ledger devices.
Jameson Lopp just made a post on twitter X with screenshot showing swollen crap battery on ledger flex device.
Same as Jaemson, I don't like integrated batteries on hardware wallets that can't be removed easily.

Having battery problems with the previous Nano X model, failing to learn from them, and repeating the same mistakes in new wallets—that takes a special kind of skill.
I ask myself, are there any normal people working there?

[Pmalek]

Here is another reason why everyone should stay away from ledger devices.
Jameson Lopp just made a post on twitter X with screenshot showing swollen crap battery on ledger flex device.
Same as Jaemson, I don't like integrated batteries on hardware wallets that can't be removed easily.

So the Ledger battery drama continues, regardless how much devices cost. Do they have to go cheap on everything?!

I have had my issues with swollen batteries in my life. It's not that uncommon. Back in the days when smartphones just became a thing, I owned a Samsung phone and needed one or two spare batteries because of my work at the time. Some of them would also swell up and cause issues with closing the back cover. These things happen. But considering Ledger's history and the Nano X battery problems, I wonder if this is going to become another big issue.

[satscraper]

Here is another reason why everyone should stay away from ledger devices.
Jameson Lopp just made a post on twitter X with screenshot showing swollen crap battery on ledger flex device.
Same as Jaemson, I don't like integrated batteries on hardware wallets that can't be removed easily.

This is why I'm skeptical of signing devices that have permanent batteries installed. Just pulled a Ledger Flex out of storage (in optimal cool & dry conditions) and the battery has swollen and burst out the back panel. Device still works but only when plugged in.

https://x.com/lopp/status/1995857959164018922

He didn’t specify how long his device was kept unused. The chemistry of any Li‑ion cell, including the U242532PU used in the Ledger Flex, may degrade if the battery is left unused for some  period of time ^{depends on the battery}. To prevent swelling effects, it is recommended to use it on a regular basis. That said, I agree that hardware wallets without batteries are much better ^{no battery, no problems from this side.}


P.S, I don't like nonstandard Li-ion cells designed specifically for powering given devices. Standard one ^{like Nokia BL‑5C} is much better regarding quality.

[SFR10]

Jameson Lopp just made a post on twitter X with screenshot showing swollen crap battery on ledger flex device.

Did some digging on their subreddit and it appears that the scale of this issue is way more than I expected:
^{- They probably belong to different batches (in other words, so far, there has been no improvement on that front)!}

• Ledger Flex Battery Popped back plate
• Ledger Flex Battery Issues
• Ledger flex battery problem
• PSA: check your Ledger Flex battery
• Ledger Flex Battery swelling
• My Ledger Flex Battery got swollen unexpectedly

Same as Jaemson, I don't like integrated batteries on hardware wallets that can't be removed easily.

Same here... I'm surprised Trezor went with that route ^{[unfortunately]}, so I wonder if the slightly better battery of the Safe 7 will have similar issues as well or not.

[satscraper]

Jameson Lopp just made a post on twitter X with screenshot showing swollen crap battery on ledger flex device.

Did some digging on their subreddit and it appears that the scale of this issue is way more than I expected:
^{- They probably belong to different batches (in other words, so far, there has been no improvement on that front)!}

• Ledger Flex Battery Popped back plate
• Ledger Flex Battery Issues
• Ledger flex battery problem
• PSA: check your Ledger Flex battery
• Ledger Flex Battery swelling
• My Ledger Flex Battery got swollen unexpectedly

Same as Jaemson, I don't like integrated batteries on hardware wallets that can't be removed easily.

Same here... I'm surprised Trezor went with that route ^{[unfortunately]}, so I wonder if the slightly better battery of the Safe 7 will have similar issues as well or not.

Even standard lithium‑ion batteries like the BL‑5C may swell if not used for months. There are relevant discussions about this on Reddit.

So it is not the problem that can be said to be exclusively associated with Ledger, though their products deserve to be better.

My Passport Core uses  BL‑5C, and since I designated this wallet for long‑term storage, I periodically check the battery and recharge it, trying not to surpass the recommended 80% capacity level.

[dkbit98]

Having battery problems with the previous Nano X model, failing to learn from them, and repeating the same mistakes in new wallets—that takes a special kind of skill.
I ask myself, are there any normal people working there?

Sure there are some normal people at ledger and most of them are working in Donjon team.

So the Ledger battery drama continues, regardless how much devices cost. Do they have to go cheap on everything?!

Yes.
They only use cheapest crap from China for their devices, and it's not only batteries, it's the screen and everything else.

I have had my issues with swollen batteries in my life.

Sure, it can happen with lithium batteries more often than with other types.
I never once saw old Nokia phone batteries doing that, and they can last literally for decades.

Did some digging on their subreddit and it appears that the scale of this issue is way more than I expected

You can find only a fraction of reports on their reddit page, since that is heavily censored.
I am sure problem is much bigger in real life with all their devices that have integrated batteries.

Same here... I'm surprised Trezor went with that route ^{[unfortunately]}, so I wonder if the slightly better battery of the Safe 7 will have similar issues as well or not.

I did read about that and Trezor claims they used new type of batteries that are very high quality, but I can't find that article now.
This is LiFePO₄ battery that outlasts standard lithium batteries, it has 4× the charging cycles and retains power for years, even if not used for a long time.

[satscraper]

I did read about that and Trezor claims they used new type of batteries that are very high quality, but I can't find that article now.
This is LiFePO₄ battery that outlasts standard lithium batteries, it has 4× the charging cycles and retains power for years, even if not used for a long time.

You probably read this in their official guide on the Trezor Safe 7:

 LiFePO₄ batteries are known to have better specs compared with Li-ion ones but I would highlight only one of them that is their safety because they are less likely to self ignite and explode. I would not store wallets containing Li-ion battery outside the special bag designed to suppress fire.

[dkbit98]

You probably read this in their official guide on the Trezor Safe 7

I obviously didn't write it from my own head, but there was some blog or review that explained new Trezor batteries in details.
On their website we can only see basic stuff.

I would not store wallets containing Li-ion battery outside the special bag designed to suppress fire.

So you are telling me that you are storing your phone (or your laptop) in bag designed to suppress fire?
Give me a break please, it's not like bitcoins are going to explode with your hardware wallet

PS
I actually have fire resistant bag, and it's nothing special.

[satscraper]

You probably read this in their official guide on the Trezor Safe 7

I obviously didn't write it from my own head, but there was some blog or review that explained new Trezor batteries in details.
On their website we can only see basic stuff.

Opposite to Trezor you don’t really need any blog to learn about the battery specifications used in the Ledger Flex.

If you carefully look at the picture shared by Jaemson in their tweet, you will see that the battery is marked as U242532PU 3.8 V 200 mAh. This indicates it is Li-ion battery ^{more precisely a LiPo, since it is specifically shaped to fit the wallet compartment and therefore uses the polymer electrolyte instead of liquid one}.

The maximum charging current for Li-ion battery is typically 0.5C to 1C (with 0.5C recommended). Since the capacity here is 200 mAh, the recommended maximum charging current equals 100 mA


 

So you are telling me that you are storing your phone (or your laptop) in bag designed to suppress fire?

I'm not storing my cell phone. I'm using it and therefore recharging it on a daily basis.

[dkbit98]

Opposite to Trezor you don’t really need any blog to learn about the battery specifications used in the Ledger Flex.

I was talking about Trezor battery, and I don't care at all about ledger batteries because I already know they are crap.

I'm not storing my cell phone. I'm using it and therefore recharging it on a daily basis.

You obviously don't understand how lithium batteries work, and how they can catch fire.
Explosions or catching fire is usually happening when you are charging them, that means that you actually have hire chances of your phone battery getting on fire, since you are charging it all the time.
Another risk is exposing lithium batteries to water, that only feeds the fire and create chemical reaction with lithium.

[satscraper]

I'm not storing my cell phone. I'm using it and therefore recharging it on a daily basis.

You obviously don't understand how lithium batteries work, and how they can catch fire.
Explosions or catching fire is usually happening when you are charging them, that means that you actually have hire chances of your phone battery getting on fire, since you are charging it all the time.
Another risk is exposing lithium batteries to water, that only feeds the fire and create chemical reaction with lithium.

I wish I could have a battery that could run forever, but unfortunately all batteries lose their charge while powering cell phones, so they need to be recharged when their charge drops ^{(starting at around 40% is optimal to extend their lifetime)}. If you don’t overcharge them, fire or explosion are rare cases ^{though they can still happen}. I never charge my battery above 80%. My phone has option that allows me to set  80% charge limit.

Looks like I do understand how lithium batteries work.

[Pmalek]

They only use cheapest crap from China for their devices, and it's not only batteries, it's the screen and everything else.

Today I saw that Ledger partnered with Lamborghini to create an exclusive and custom version of their Ledger Stax hardware wallet. These types of partnerships don't help anyone to create better and safer products. They are just a way for Ledger to make more money. It's going to be the same wallet with the same hardware and specs, but with a custom cover and color, maybe made of more premium materials and a Lamborghini logo or something. Obviously, they will add $100 or $200 to the already expensive price of the Stax because it's a Lamborghini for God's sake.

[dkbit98]

Looks like I do understand how lithium batteries work.

But you clearly don't understand the math.
Let's stop with this offtopic, and keep to the subject please, this is my topic after all.

Today I saw that Ledger partnered with Lamborghini to create an exclusive and custom version of their Ledger Stax hardware wallet

Are you joking or is this a real deal?  
This sounds to me like a typical scammer who decided to spend a lot of money on promoting his pyramidal scheme.
Nobody can help someone who decides to buy ledger just because they partnered with Lambo or some other luxury brand.