JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Obulis]

Many people think, "Let's invest first anyway" and then the expenses will be arranged, and this is where the problem begins. Bitcoin is a volatile asset, and any volatile asset has risks. But the biggest risk for Bitcoin is not the market, but rather cash flow and psychological stress. When the money is invested with money for rent, food, medicine or emergency family expenses, people get scared and sell at the slightest dump, because they have no other choice. So at least for me, budget first, then investment, this can be a good decision. From the monthly income

First of all, and above all too, people must organize and keep their lives safely before thinking of investment. Investment is only a safe choice, and helpful for their finance if they begin with solid financial foundation that does not need to be from rich people but must be organized well, and never like using all money for investment.

You don't need to be organized before getting started investing in bitcoin.  All you need to do to get started is figure out that you have discretionary income that is availabe.

Sure, you will likely do better to sustain your investment if you organize, yet you can do that as you go, it is not required in order to get started investing in bitcoin.

Honestly detailed organization can be on the go instead of trying to figure out every thing at once.
I have always used the phrase to paraphrase, "get the basics and get started with your Bitcoin investment journey". However, the point is what is defined as the basics and if I am to define basics I would say basics are the little things to know about Bitcoin investment that helps in giving the slightest idea about Bitcoin asset, like investment strategies, discretionary funds, long-term approach and few others. Other knowledges will unfold on the go.

[cocadalcan]

Many people think, "Let's invest first anyway" and then the expenses will be arranged, and this is where the problem begins. Bitcoin is a volatile asset, and any volatile asset has risks. But the biggest risk for Bitcoin is not the market, but rather cash flow and psychological stress. When the money is invested with money for rent, food, medicine or emergency family expenses, people get scared and sell at the slightest dump, because they have no other choice. So at least for me, budget first, then investment, this can be a good decision. From the monthly income

First of all, and above all too, people must organize and keep their lives safely before thinking of investment. Investment is only a safe choice, and helpful for their finance if they begin with solid financial foundation that does not need to be from rich people but must be organized well, and never like using all money for investment.

You don't need to be organized before getting started investing in bitcoin.  All you need to do to get started is figure out that you have discretionary income that is availabe.

Sure, you will likely do better to sustain your investment if you organize, yet you can do that as you go, it is not required in order to get started investing in bitcoin.

Honestly detailed organization can be on the go instead of trying to figure out every thing at once.
I have always used the phrase to paraphrase, "get the basics and get started with your Bitcoin investment journey". However, the point is what is defined as the basics and if I am to define basics I would say basics are the little things to know about Bitcoin investment that helps in giving the slightest idea about Bitcoin asset, like investment strategies, discretionary funds, long-term approach and few others. Other knowledges will unfold on the go.

Don't wait any longer to start investing in Bitcoin to gain more investment skills. Start with the amount of funds you have and go with the flow. You need a discretionary income to start. Spending extra time gathering all the materials to get organized at the same time will distract you from the main point. The main thing is to start investing in Bitcoin and maintain your position regularly. Starting the investment journey is not easy but accumulation Bitcoin regularly will be easier for you if you have a discretionary income.

[Gost ms]

Don't wait any longer to start investing in Bitcoin to gain more investment skills. Start with the amount of funds you have and go with the flow. You need a discretionary income to start. Spending extra time gathering all the materials to get organized at the same time will distract you from the main point. The main thing is to start investing in Bitcoin and maintain your position regularly. Starting the investment journey is not easy but accumulation Bitcoin regularly will be easier for you if you have a discretionary income.

Investing with all our funds or money can be harmful for us. That is, if someone invests with urgent money, then he may face losses. For example, if he needs that amount of money after some time of investment and at that time if the price of Bitcoin decreases or the investment continues to decline, then he may have to sell Bitcoin in the loss. Therefore, we need to invest with such an amount of money that even if you lose the amount of money, it does not create pressure on your financial situation and in the long run, you do not need that amount of money. It is very important for us to always manage our finances properly and through proper financial management, we will be able to find discretionary income. It is always necessary to invest with discretionary income

[JayJuanGee]

Many people think, "Let's invest first anyway" and then the expenses will be arranged, and this is where the problem begins. Bitcoin is a volatile asset, and any volatile asset has risks. But the biggest risk for Bitcoin is not the market, but rather cash flow and psychological stress. When the money is invested with money for rent, food, medicine or emergency family expenses, people get scared and sell at the slightest dump, because they have no other choice. So at least for me, budget first, then investment, this can be a good decision. From the monthly income

First of all, and above all too, people must organize and keep their lives safely before thinking of investment. Investment is only a safe choice, and helpful for their finance if they begin with solid financial foundation that does not need to be from rich people but must be organized well, and never like using all money for investment.

You don't need to be organized before getting started investing in bitcoin.  All you need to do to get started is figure out that you have discretionary income that is availabe.

Sure, you will likely do better to sustain your investment if you organize, yet you can do that as you go, it is not required in order to get started investing in bitcoin.

Honestly detailed organization can be on the go instead of trying to figure out every thing at once.

There is nothing wrong with being organized, yet there is also nothing wrong with newbies starting out from where they are at and then hopefully working on improving their organization status through their buying bitcoin and perhaps because of their buying bitcoin.

Some people are going to be more organized than others, and some people might have really screwed up financial situations including debts and loan payments, yet the main thing still remains if they can determine that they have discretionary funds, then they can get started.

Surely there are people who have such messed up finances and organizational skills that they cannot determine the extent to which they currently have discretionary income or that they would be able to put money into bitcoin to lock up for 10 years or longer, so they might not be in a position to get started - or maybe they can start out with $100  or $10 or some other amount, yet they might not be able to continue to buy more until they get their finances in order and/or their psychology.

Of course, the worst situation would be when people do not have common sense and/or abilities to learn, yet I personally believe that those are less than 2.5% of the population that have that issue.. so they need help from others...and sure some kids might not be mature enough to keep themselves from becoming emotional and/or rash. So those people have to try to identify their own limitations.. and so sure sometimes they are not able to figure out that they are in such a situation.

So one thing is getting started and another thing is continuing, and for sure guys who organize themselves, which includes creating and maintaining back up funds, they are going to be in a better position to both continue to invest in bitcoin on a weekly (or whatever basis) and perhaps also to increase their aggressiveness levels.  Aggressiveness should be applied based on the strength of ones cashflow management situation rather than based on the bitcoin price.

I have always used the phrase to paraphrase, "get the basics and get started with your Bitcoin investment journey". However, the point is what is defined as the basics and if I am to define basics I would say basics are the little things to know about Bitcoin investment that helps in giving the slightest idea about Bitcoin asset, like investment strategies, discretionary funds, long-term approach and few others. Other knowledges will unfold on the go.

I think that your basics might be a bit too much.. though I understand you are just mentioning them generally.  So investment strategies can be worked out as you go, since getting started is merely figuring out how much is going to be put in to start, whether $100 or $10 or some other amount, and then perhaps figuring out how much to put in each of the following weeks.. and then of course, if a person is getting started, he has to figure out how he is going to source his bitcoin.. Does he know someone or will he start with an exchange?  Are there fees, and does he feel comfortable holding those bitcoin on that exchange in the time that he is going to need to figure out self-custody.  I personally believe in self-custody, yet I believe that self-custody is not needed to be figured out prior to getting started.

Whether or not you have discretionary funds seems sufficiently clear, yet surely a person may well need to be comfortable that he has enough discretionary funds to get him to the next pay period.

Even though many of us recognize and appreciate that the commitment to bitcoin should be 4-10 years or longer, so a newbie should have that in mind, yet some newbies might not be willing to commit to 4-10 years or longer, yet I think that they can still get started and they can perhaps continue to consider the extent to which they can come around to making sure that they are committing to 4-10 years or longer, and especially 10 years or longer except for guys who have age and/or health issues that could limit their ability to commit to 10 years or longer.

One of my main points is that there should be a certain urgency in getting started no matter the price, so that systems can be put in place in order to facilitate later decisions regarding whether to change the amounts being invested.  The urgency is not FOMO, but rather a kind of self-preservation  to put systems in place so that a guy has a choice and abilities to buy bitcoin, whether he later choses to invest in whimpy ways (such as not very much and not very frequently) or more aggressive ways with higher levels of his discretionary income and on a regular basis and even perhaps considering reallocating any other investments that he has into bitcoin.

[edited out]

Don't wait any longer to start investing in Bitcoin to gain more investment skills. Start with the amount of funds you have and go with the flow. You need a discretionary income to start. Spending extra time gathering all the materials to get organized at the same time will distract you from the main point. The main thing is to start investing in Bitcoin and maintain your position regularly. Starting the investment journey is not easy but accumulation Bitcoin regularly will be easier for you if you have a discretionary income.

It can surely take time to build bitcoin investment skills and to strengthen cashflow management systems /practices, so in that regard, there still should not be any problem getting started as long as the person can figure out that he has discretionary funds, and surely a guy is not investing in bitcoin if he does not have discretionary funds, so having discretionary funds is a prerequisite in order to invest in bitcoin. - if someone uses money that is needed for expenses to buy bitcoin then that would  be trading and/or gambling which I personally consider to be a bad idea.

[Ryu_Ar1]

This might be a consideration (although not initially) because I feel that 10-15 % is still enough for me to be able to invest comfortably with enough consistency for me and I'm not too worried about my life and needs we have.

Maybe the downside here is that it will take me a little longer to invest because it is certain that the smaller your ratio in investing the longer it will take especially if we want to achieve a goal such as 1 year of income for investment and even more than that.

I get the sense that you (Ryu_Ar1) might be misunderstanding what is meant by 10% to 15% of income being invested into bitcoin, and in that regard, I don't understand why you  believe that investing 10-15% of your income into bitcoin is a small amount.   Relatively speaking and for many normal people, investing 10% to 15% of your income into bitcoin would be a very reasonable paced amount since it frequently is difficult for anyone to get above investing 15% or more of their income into bitcoin (or anything else for that matter), even though surely the higher that any of us is able to get in our bitcoin investment levels without overly discomforting ourselves (financially or psychologically), then the better progress that we make in terms of getting 1 or 2 years of our income invested into bitcoin, which surely gives us good potential to being able to get to fuck you status when we can get 1-2 or more years of our income put into bitcoin.

No, in context I'm not saying it's a small amount because in this case we must be aware it's a normal form or even I would consider this as ideal (if I compare to the income I currently have from monthly income) but because of the initial context that YUriy1991 and red4slash discussed which the stipulation level is 20-30 percent so I'm saying that the time to achieve will be a little longer for me because of making 10-15 percent as the initial stipulation especially if we really want to achieve 1 year of income or more.

On the one hand this is also a good thing because for me being and investing is not a race, as long as we are able to do the best for the future then we should do it even though it's definitely not easy because we have to manage income and expenses as much as possible but when we are disciplined I'm pretty sure that time will come and we can talk about the ideal financial freedom that we always discuss.

It is true that bitcoin's asymmetric bet characteristics allows for that even reasonably low levels of ongoing and consistent investing may well still end up resulting in considerable life improvements as long as the investment timeline is for longer periods such as 10 years or long.. .while at the same time appreciating that the mere fact that the investment is long, that does not increase the odds of the investment becoming guaranteed, even though longer term investing (and a longer term mindset) does at least help to mitigate concerns about stresses that can sometimes accompany bitcoin's ongoing and seemingly inevitable shorter term volatility dynamics.

From the beginning when we were in bitcoin I think the basic thing besides the knowledge that we have to understand from the start should be the word “guaranteed” not included in the mindset because in this case bitcoin does not guarantee anything even from the beginning bitcoin did not promise anything but because of our beliefs then we just try to keep believing that with long-term investment at least we can get a greater possibility to get an increase in the quality of life but obviously there is no guarantee whatsoever in it.
I agree with your words here where the long-term mindset and the form of realization that we do is only to help reduce worries and indeed things like this need to be emphasized from the start.

[alankasman]

It can surely take time to build bitcoin investment skills and to strengthen cashflow management systems /practices, so in that regard, there still should not be any problem getting started as long as the person can figure out that he has discretionary funds, and surely a guy is not investing in bitcoin if he does not have discretionary funds, so having discretionary funds is a prerequisite in order to invest in bitcoin. - if someone uses money that is needed for expenses to buy bitcoin then that would  be trading and/or gambling which I personally consider to be a bad idea.

This is certainly true and supportive because building Bitcoin investment skills and strengthening systems is how we manage our cash flow  as both of these things certainly take time. What we know why someone does not invest in Bitcoin may be due to not having available funds/or free funds so this illustrates that to invest in Bitcoin of course what we must have is available funds not to be spent because if we have funds but only to spend it of course this is very dangerous in investing in Bitcoin therefore when we have sufficient funds to spend of course we do it with the available funds is the right choice with the reason we invest in Bitcoin without disturbing the income to be spent so that it is one of the conditions that may be security for what we do in investing in Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

This might be a consideration (although not initially) because I feel that 10-15 % is still enough for me to be able to invest comfortably with enough consistency for me and I'm not too worried about my life and needs we have.

Maybe the downside here is that it will take me a little longer to invest because it is certain that the smaller your ratio in investing the longer it will take especially if we want to achieve a goal such as 1 year of income for investment and even more than that.

I get the sense that you (Ryu_Ar1) might be misunderstanding what is meant by 10% to 15% of income being invested into bitcoin, and in that regard, I don't understand why you  believe that investing 10-15% of your income into bitcoin is a small amount.   Relatively speaking and for many normal people, investing 10% to 15% of your income into bitcoin would be a very reasonable paced amount since it frequently is difficult for anyone to get above investing 15% or more of their income into bitcoin (or anything else for that matter), even though surely the higher that any of us is able to get in our bitcoin investment levels without overly discomforting ourselves (financially or psychologically), then the better progress that we make in terms of getting 1 or 2 years of our income invested into bitcoin, which surely gives us good potential to being able to get to fuck you status when we can get 1-2 or more years of our income put into bitcoin.

No, in context I'm not saying it's a small amount because in this case we must be aware it's a normal form or even I would consider this as ideal (if I compare to the income I currently have from monthly income) but because of the initial context that YUriy1991 and red4slash discussed which the stipulation level is 20-30 percent so I'm saying that the time to achieve will be a little longer for me because of making 10-15 percent as the initial stipulation especially if we really want to achieve 1 year of income or more.

10% is a normal aspiration level.. it is not really low, and yeah, at that rate, it will take nearly 10 years to get to 1 year's annual income invested into bitcoin, so of course, the more you are able to consistently put into bitcoin, then you end up getting your 1 year to 2 years annual income stake into bitcoin at a faster rate.. and yeah, your annual income might changed too, even though maybe in our examples we will try to keep some matters more consistent just to allow for it to be easier to talk about them. 

So 15% might get you to a whole year of your income invested in around 7 years, and 25% would get you to a whole year's income invested in merely 4 years.

The greater your bitcoin portfolio is prepared when you are able to put more into it, before it goes up more in price (in the event that it may well go up in price again at some unexpected point in time).. ..... which is also part of the rationale to reallocate from other assets that you might have, so there surely could be guys who are going through transitions in their life where they might sell a house or a business or other wise come across greater amounts of cash, or maybe some guys have a job that invests money for them, but then they lose their employment so then they are forced to move the money out of that investment into some other investment.
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Otherwise if guys had previously chosen other investments, they might not even want to reallocate out of the other investments and put that money into bitcoin, but instead they might end up choosing to start to allocate into bitcoin and stop allocating into their other investments, so their other assets might just stay at whatever investment amount that they had and then the focus is to get the bitcoin up to the allocation level that is targetted.

Let's say that a guy is in his mid to late 30s and he comes to bitcoin, yet over the previous 10 years, he had been investing into some stock funds through some kind of an investment (retirement) program that was sponsored by his employer, so maybe he put an amount that was equal to a years's income, yet the fund also grew by about 65%, so maybe if his income was $30k his investment fund was then equal to $50k.

So then when he heard about bitcoin, maybe he will divert what he had been investing into that other fund into bitcoin and then maybe he could choose to target geting his bitcoin to be at least in the ballpark of 15% to 20% the size of his other investments (which currently would be $7,500 to $10k, and so since he his a guy who already has resources, he will try to figure out how to accelerate his getting his bitcoin investment to be 15% to 20% of his other investment,  yet his bitcoin will grow and perhaps his overall wealth will grown so after 1.5 years, he might have $10k into bitcoin, and yet maybe his regular investment grew 10% over that period of time up to $55k, so between the two of them, he has a total of $65k.. and so he can reassess whether he wants to continue to invest in all of them or maybe just put new value into bitcoin, yet if he met his target level, then he might feel less urgent in terms of mostly meeting the allocation percentage that he wanted to get to, yet if he had been studying bitcoin for the past 1.5 years as he was investing into it, maybe he might want to figure out ways to mostly just allocate into bitcoin and to stop adding value to his other investments, so then the percentage of his bitcoin relative to his other assets become higher and higher with the passage of time, which surely is a good kind oa problem to have.

On the one hand this is also a good thing because for me being and investing is not a race, as long as we are able to do the best for the future then we should do it even though it's definitely not easy because we have to manage income and expenses as much as possible but when we are disciplined I'm pretty sure that time will come and we can talk about the ideal financial freedom that we always discuss.

It is true that bitcoin's asymmetric bet characteristics allows for that even reasonably low levels of ongoing and consistent investing may well still end up resulting in considerable life improvements as long as the investment timeline is for longer periods such as 10 years or long.. .while at the same time appreciating that the mere fact that the investment is long, that does not increase the odds of the investment becoming guaranteed, even though longer term investing (and a longer term mindset) does at least help to mitigate concerns about stresses that can sometimes accompany bitcoin's ongoing and seemingly inevitable shorter term volatility dynamics.

From the beginning when we were in bitcoin I think the basic thing besides the knowledge that we have to understand from the start should be the word “guaranteed” not included in the mindset because in this case bitcoin does not guarantee anything even from the beginning bitcoin did not promise anything but because of our beliefs then we just try to keep believing that with long-term investment at least we can get a greater possibility to get an increase in the quality of life but obviously there is no guarantee whatsoever in it.

Even though each of us understand that our bitcoin investment is not guaranteed, each of us still has to figure out the level of our aggressiveness in terms of our investing into bitcoin - so maybe the guy who could have had invested 20% into bitcoin, is kicking himself because he merely invested 10% of his income into bitcoin.  The guy with a 10% investment level would end up with half as many bitcoin as compared with the guy who had choosen to invest 20% of his income into bitcoin.   .. but yeah, we have to work within our limitation, yet sometimes we will make trade-offs, and then we might later regret the trade-offs that we had chosen to make.

[cyberninja2]

Even though each of us understand that our bitcoin investment is not guaranteed, each of us still has to figure out the level of our aggressiveness in terms of our investing into bitcoin - so maybe the guy who could have had invested 20% into bitcoin, is kicking himself because he merely invested 10% of his income into bitcoin.  The guy with a 10% investment level would end up with half as many bitcoin as compared with the guy who had choosen to invest 20% of his income into bitcoin.   .. but yeah, we have to work within our limitation, yet sometimes we will make trade-offs, and then we might later regret the trade-offs that we had chosen to make.

There's no need to listen to what many people say who obviously don't know what really happens in Bitcoin investing. Because if they understood what happens in Bitcoin they would do the same as we do and they say that investing in Bitcoin has no guarantees. What we need to ask people who say there are no guarantees in investing is what we can do to ensure our future.

I strongly disagree with what the person said about investing in Bitcoin having no guarantees. My experience differs from the person's thoughts. I've already received and enjoyed many benefits from investing in Bitcoin and the market price conditions strongly support my decision to buy more Bitcoin at the current price. The reason is that I continue investing long-term, which I should do. This is because I have funds saved, which increases my confidence in DCA. I'm confident that I'll have more assets in the next few years by investing in Bitcoin. Essentially, I don't want anyone to explain that investing in Bitcoin has no guarantees. In my opinion that's the most baseless idea anyone could have. I personally enjoy the convenience of investing by accumulating BTC even if it's a small amount but it's very meaningful in Bitcoin investment.

[cocadalcan]

It can surely take time to build bitcoin investment skills and to strengthen cashflow management systems /practices, so in that regard, there still should not be any problem getting started as long as the person can figure out that he has discretionary funds, and surely a guy is not investing in bitcoin if he does not have discretionary funds, so having discretionary funds is a prerequisite in order to invest in bitcoin. - if someone uses money that is needed for expenses to buy bitcoin then that would  be trading and/or gambling which I personally consider to be a bad idea.

You have simply given a very intelligent explanation. If someone does not have discretionary funds, they will buy Bitcoin with the funds allocated for themselves and their family, which will be a very bad decision. This kind of mental plan is not for long-term investment, it is a trading strategy. And trading is a risky gambling strategy. Allocate a part of discretionary income from cash flow to Bitcoin and consider this fund as locked up for you. The locked up period will be 4-10 years. Think of this fund as loseable and accumulate Bitcoin at regular break and every week.

[JayJuanGee]

Even though each of us understand that our bitcoin investment is not guaranteed, each of us still has to figure out the level of our aggressiveness in terms of our investing into bitcoin - so maybe the guy who could have had invested 20% into bitcoin, is kicking himself because he merely invested 10% of his income into bitcoin.  The guy with a 10% investment level would end up with half as many bitcoin as compared with the guy who had choosen to invest 20% of his income into bitcoin.   .. but yeah, we have to work within our limitation, yet sometimes we will make trade-offs, and then we might later regret the trade-offs that we had chosen to make.

There's no need to listen to what many people say who obviously don't know what really happens in Bitcoin investing. Because if they understood what happens in Bitcoin they would do the same as we do and they say that investing in Bitcoin has no guarantees. What we need to ask people who say there are no guarantees in investing is what we can do to ensure our future.

I strongly disagree with what the person said about investing in Bitcoin having no guarantees.

You are likely going to get yourself into trouble if you believe that bitcoin is guaranteed - so hopefully you know how to protect yourself, since there is nothing that is guaranteed, especially when it comes to the future.

My experience differs from the person's thoughts. I've already received and enjoyed many benefits from investing in Bitcoin and the market price conditions strongly support my decision to buy more Bitcoin at the current price.

Do you also tell other people that bitcoin is guaranteed?

No one is going to believe you if you are living in a fantasy land.

But, hey it is your choice how you choose to present yourself and how you choose to believe, or not believe.

I suppose that if you have been investing in bitcoin since around the time of your forum registration date (in November 2015), then bitcoin has been a very good investment, as long as you did not screw things up and you mostly errored on the side of accumulating bitcoin and holding onto your stash as you built it up.

The reason is that I continue investing long-term, which I should do. This is because I have funds saved, which increases my confidence in DCA. I'm confident that I'll have more assets in the next few years by investing in Bitcoin. Essentially, I don't want anyone to explain that investing in Bitcoin has no guarantees.

It does not have guarantees.

There are various execution risks and then there are also potential risks with the asset itself.  I think that you are living in a fantasy if you believe that some aspect of bitcoin is guaranteed.  And, you are also likely to be misleading others if you talk about bitcoin as if it is guaranteed, to the extent anyone will believe you in the event that you are talking like that.

In my opinion that's the most baseless idea anyone could have. I personally enjoy the convenience of investing by accumulating BTC even if it's a small amount but it's very meaningful in Bitcoin investment.

Well, perhaps your bitcoin investment has been working out for you, so far, which is good. 

It can surely take time to build bitcoin investment skills and to strengthen cashflow management systems /practices, so in that regard, there still should not be any problem getting started as long as the person can figure out that he has discretionary funds, and surely a guy is not investing in bitcoin if he does not have discretionary funds, so having discretionary funds is a prerequisite in order to invest in bitcoin. - if someone uses money that is needed for expenses to buy bitcoin then that would  be trading and/or gambling which I personally consider to be a bad idea.

You have simply given a very intelligent explanation. If someone does not have discretionary funds, they will buy Bitcoin with the funds allocated for themselves and their family, which will be a very bad decision. This kind of mental plan is not for long-term investment, it is a trading strategy. And trading is a risky gambling strategy. Allocate a part of discretionary income from cash flow to Bitcoin and consider this fund as locked up for you. The locked up period will be 4-10 years. Think of this fund as loseable and accumulate Bitcoin at regular break and every week.

Of course, the specifics of any investment into bitcoin should be tailored to the individual circumstances, including the need to have discretionary funds, so if a person is investing into bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, then a lot of things can happen during the investment period to potentially interfere with the bitcoin investment and/or to interfere with the cashflow management practices/systems.  I would think that guys who invest into bitcoin for such extended periods of time, they will be trying to learn as they go and adapting their strategy towards their learnings.. and yeah, various mistakes are likely to be made along the way, too.