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Author Topic: LTC CASINO Resolved.  (Read 20375 times)
bambolina (OP)
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May 11, 2022, 08:29:26 AM
 #241


Hello, esteemed player and forum members.

I apologize for not being able to answer every question and comment, so I will try to finally describe our position on this case in one post.

As we have repeatedly stated, we suspect the player of using vulnerabilities in the game provider's software to win. Among other reasons, our suspicions are reinforced by the following factors:

- The player's use of only one slot for all gaming activity over an extended period of time.

- The absence of pauses in the game.

- Ignoring by the game provider Wazdan our specific questions about the gaming activity of this player, including the possibility of winning such amounts using low volatility and so on and so forth.

- A recent case where Felix Gaming provider also had a vulnerability that allowed players to dishonestly win hundreds of thousands of euros and the similarity of this case to the current one.

Our suspicions are also reinforced by the player's past activity on specific forums - you can find many complaints opened by the player against the most different casinos on several forums. Including, a regular practice for the player was the use of blackmail, which he, among other things, tried to do with our casino. The simple trick was that the player would make a deposit, use a British IP address and withdraw the money if he won. In the case of a loss the player began to blackmail the casino with complaints to the law enforcement authorities in the UK to get his deposit back.

Our conviction, based on years of experience, led us to contact for further investigation the higher authorities - White Label Provider (SoftSwiss), which operates our casino. For your understanding, we do not interact with the provider directly, we interact with the provider through SoftSwiss.

We trust SoftSwiss and are convinced that they will involve both experts and the licensing authorities to investigate. We are ready to fully trust SoftSwiss decision on this case and we will comply with it no matter what it is.

If it is found that the player acted honestly - we will pay out the winnings, as we have already repeatedly paid out much larger amounts of winnings to other players.
[/b]



let me understand:

wazdan has already confirmed that the game has no issues. but you insisted that wazdan is lying

You are wrong. Wazdan DID NOT provide any confirmations of fairness of the winnings excepting words. They STILL DID NOT answer our questions, they just said "possibility to win those jackpots is XXX, so nothing wrong".

Now you've got another gambling company to look into the OP case? but this company you got is a competitor of wazdan, who guarantees that this new company will be impartial in the investigation?


They are not competitors. SoftSwiss is a big partner of Wazdan and they are interested in getting truth.


you disappeared for a long time, and then you come back with this new company?

No. We work since 2017 and paid even much bigger ammounts many times. As I said before we will pay this winning either if it was fair. But now there is no any proof of it's fairness and we are going to wait for the investigation results.
Thank you for posting in this thread with a detailed response but sadly it does not clarify basic fundamentals.

I think the issue here is with the action and inaction on your part. Let us say for a moment the OP has been exploiting a vulnerability in the game... the question arises why did you not pull the game since there was already a well known exploit out there according to your own comments? By allowing members to play a game that you knew had vulnerabilities shows you enticed them to play therefore you have to honour any winnings.

If the member was not aware of any vulnerabilities and did not exploit any vulnerabilities and simply "won" then you have no case against him because just suspecting him of foul-play on a game that you yourself made available on your website even though you knew it could be exploited is a pointless case to make.

Do not wait for SoftSwiss to get back to you with results after an investigation because Wazdan have already given their views. I would advise you to try to find a mutually acceptable solution with the OP.

I cannot speak for others but I think the best course of action now would be to engage privately with the OP and agree terms of payout. If the OP accepts an amount of less than 1496 LTC or wants his full 1496 LTC on the basis he kindly requests those that left negative tags on your account to remove them and at the same time you do not accept liability but the payment details are kept hidden from the public chat - then that outcome could suit both yourself and the OP.


Today LTC is trading at just $81 (x1496 = $121,000) but at the time they incidents took place LTC was worth substantially more. I hope you can negotiate a way out of this with the victim to find a solution that both of you find acceptable.

I had never heard of your casino before therefore I took a look. There are no ownership LTD/LLC details are listed, terms and conditions are as vague as can be... no company or personal name or address, nothing... but having said that scam allegations have not been made against your casino to my knowledge. You still have plenty of time to regain lost reputation therefore I hope you engage with the OP as soon as possible to resolve this.

Thanks for your comment. To be frank I honestly believe this people will never pay and probably would accuse softswiss of conjuring against them if softswiss investigation will turn up to be impartial and honest.
I have been feeling like I have been screaming in deaf ears for almost 3 months, not matter how much evidence one provides the casino keeps take time and not providing any evidence.
Beside the obvious theft the mental damage this casino has caused me can't be valued.
It is extremely hard to fight emotions when you know you have not cheated and the truth is out there and they keep lying against all the evidences.

Ltc casino should share my gameplay with bitcoitalk casino admin as that would be a real impartial third party.  They said they would have and again lied and did not delivered the promises.

@ltccasino  why don't you share my gameplay if you are so sure i have cheated? You don't because you know i haven't !!

IF I was the scammer i would fear the sharing of my gameplay, but i don't because i know i had breaks and my gameplay pattern will straightway prove that the use of a software was just unfounded accusation to don't pay me.

I am not longer the accused but iam the accuser because i was a victim of theft.
It is your time to prove the evidence that you are not another unlicensed casino that scam players and exploit them.
Many accusation on the net feed the narrative against your predatory ways of exploiting players, but i am here to fight for the money i have won honestly, for your predatory ways there will be karma ,because life will punish all the evils.

I want not pity, i want my won money and will not rest till you pay me.




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May 11, 2022, 10:22:07 AM
 #242


I think the issue here is with the action and inaction on your part. Let us say for a moment the OP has been exploiting a vulnerability in the game... the question arises why did you not pull the game since there was already a well known exploit out there according to your own comments? By allowing members to play a game that you knew had vulnerabilities shows you enticed them to play therefore you have to honour any winnings.


You are wrong. Of cource we have removed ALL games of this provider right after we got first suspicions.
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May 11, 2022, 11:10:04 AM
 #243




You are wrong. Of cource we have removed ALL games of this provider right after we got first suspicions.
It is you that is wrong. Read the post I made in context as a response to what you actually wrote.

A recent case where Felix Gaming provider also had a vulnerability that allowed players to dishonestly win hundreds of thousands of euros and the similarity of this case to the current one.

The questions arise:

1) At which specific date did you first get suspicious?

2) At which specific date did you remove all Felix games?

3) If the official letter from Felix is dated 26th January 2022 yet the OP first deposited and first won funds before that letter was even published, why are you mentioning the Felix vulnerability? At which specific date did you seize the funds owed to the OP?


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bambolina (OP)
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May 11, 2022, 12:35:22 PM
Last edit: May 11, 2022, 03:42:01 PM by bambolina
 #244


I think the issue here is with the action and inaction on your part. Let us say for a moment the OP has been exploiting a vulnerability in the game... the question arises why did you not pull the game since there was already a well known exploit out there according to your own comments? By allowing members to play a game that you knew had vulnerabilities shows you enticed them to play therefore you have to honour any winnings.


You are wrong. Of cource we have removed ALL games of this provider right after we got first suspicions.

Ltc casino kindly share my gameplay with the admin of bitcointalk as promised by you previously.

The truth is there, and people can see i took breaks and also when i have won i did not play at night both nights.
You make it sound like i played night and day without ever stopping and is not true.

hopefully softswiss will be impartial and can prove you wrong.
 


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May 11, 2022, 12:38:39 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #245

My advice to OP keep your messages short since it's same things you post nobody will read everything...
Post less with short messages. Or 1 message long better than 10 long messages.

I'm not blaming you as we talk about 100k$ plus
But people who follows the post I doubt they have time to read like 10 long messages a day.
I'm in your side btw.
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May 13, 2022, 09:11:31 AM
 #246

Ltc casino kindly share my gameplay with the admin of bitcointalk as promised by you previously.

The truth is there, and people can see i took breaks and also when i have won i did not play at night both nights.
You make it sound like i played night and day without ever stopping and is not true.

hopefully softswiss will be impartial and can prove you wrong.
I think you should wait for short while before asking them to share because they are waiting for a reply from Softswiss. LTC Casino have stated they will release the funds to you if Softswiss are unable to prove you cheated the game. They already dismissed what Wazdan had concluded but they said they will adhere to the Softswiss findings. Let that situation conclude before proceeding further.

We trust SoftSwiss and are convinced that they will involve both experts and the licensing authorities to investigate. We are ready to fully trust SoftSwiss decision on this case and we will comply with it no matter what it is.

If it is found that the player acted honestly - we will pay out the winnings, as we have already repeatedly paid out much larger amounts of winnings to other players.
What is the largest payout your casino has made? Was it made without issues where the winner was accused of fraud before being found innocent and having the funds returned?

How many other winners have had their funds seized and not returned to them as a result of your claims of cheating?

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May 14, 2022, 11:28:47 AM
Last edit: May 14, 2022, 11:49:23 PM by Mr. Big
 #247



The questions arise:

1) At which specific date did you first get suspicious?

2) At which specific date did you remove all Felix games?

3) If the official letter from Felix is dated 26th January 2022 yet the OP first deposited and first won funds before that letter was even published, why are you mentioning the Felix vulnerability? At which specific date did you seize the funds owed to the OP?



Do you know that Wazdan and Felix are different providers? Felix was returned to the casino after they confirmed their fault. Wazdan was removed right after OP won his jackpots.




How many other winners have had their funds seized and not returned to them as a result of your claims of cheating?

Not any. Not counting that proved Felix gaming cheater (here is a thread on the forum.




What is the largest payout your casino has made? Was it made without issues where the winner was accused of fraud before being found innocent and having the funds returned?

Not sure about the largest but I remember at least several 100-150k euros winnings last year. No any problems, they were withdrawn according to the limits successfully.
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May 14, 2022, 04:25:26 PM
Last edit: May 14, 2022, 04:36:19 PM by TwitchySeal
 #248

No. We work since 2017 and paid even much bigger ammounts many times. As I said before we will pay this winning either if it was fair. But now there is no any proof of it's fairness and we are going to wait for the investigation results.

That's not how it works.  The game isn't provably fair.   You pay unless there is proof the player somehow cheated.  There is no proof.  The provider investigated, they said there's no evidence of cheating.  It's been months.  Times up.  Look what you've done to your reputation.  Honestly I'm surprised you're still trying.  If you want any hope of fixing your mistakes, you need to pay the player immediately.  Even if there's a 95% chance the player cheated, you still need to pay them.  Otherwise you send the message this could happen to anyone, and think about how fucked up what you're doing is if you're wrong and the player is innocent.

By the way, Wazden is offered at several sites that offer instant cash outs.  As in, I could go hit the jackpot on the same game, for the same amount, and have the funds in my wallet in minutes.  Think about that.

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May 14, 2022, 04:36:13 PM
 #249

No. We work since 2017 and paid even much bigger ammounts many times. As I said before we will pay this winning either if it was fair. But now there is no any proof of it's fairness and we are going to wait for the investigation results.

That's not how it works.  The game isn't provably fair.   You pay unless there is proof the player somehow cheated.  There is no proof.  The provider investigated, they said there's no evidence of cheating.  It's been months.  Times up.  Look what you've done to your reputation.  Honestly I'm surprised you're still trying.  If you want any hope of fixing your mistakes, you need to pay the player immediately.


They pop in and always say the same things. By now even softswiss  would  have done with the investigation.
Meantime  what was an amazing  win is now considerably less as ltc when  down a lot ,yet not signs of evidence ,even by softswiss.

in 2 weeks even the 3 months  of their t&  will expire and yet not sign of evidences.

Is all so unreal that a casino can act this  way.
I
 ps "so far there is not prove of cheating "  they should say and not " there is not prove of fairness".
But i guess this is  how they run their casino : guilty till proven innocent!
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May 14, 2022, 06:49:51 PM
 #250

They pop in and always say the same things. By now even softswiss  would  have done with the investigation.
Meantime  what was an amazing  win is now considerably less as ltc when  down a lot ,yet not signs of evidence ,even by softswiss.

in 2 weeks even the 3 months  of their t&  will expire and yet not sign of evidences.

Is all so unreal that a casino can act this  way.
I
 ps "so far there is not prove of cheating "  they should say and not " there is not prove of fairness".
But i guess this is  how they run their casino : guilty till proven innocent!


Maybe they're still busy trying to find evidence that they can use as an excuse. I still don't understand why they haven't been able to provide any proof that this player has won after cheating. They haven't solved your problem yet which is not really a good signal. They should solve it because of this issue, the reputation of that casino is going bad. Reputation will be bad until the right solution is found.

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khaled0111
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May 14, 2022, 07:55:35 PM
 #251

^^
When OP created this topic, we all asked him to wait more and be patient because LTC Casino has the right to withhold his money for up to three whole months according to their ToS that he agreed to when registering.
Now that these three months have passed, which were more than enough time for them and all involved parties to complete their investigation, if they still can't prove he has cheated (even if he did), they must let him withdraw all his money then they can ban his account if they want.

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May 15, 2022, 08:33:08 PM
 #252

Not sure about the largest but I remember at least several 100-150k euros winnings last year. No any problems, they were withdrawn according to the limits successfully.

well this reminds me of what you said in a past post:

Due to egregious violations, we have made a decision to withhold the payout. The decision is final. We have also ceased all operations with Wazdan due to the loss of trust and their questionable business practices. In addition, we publicly urge other casino operators to pay special attention to Wazdan titles, including previous results, due to a potential vulnerability in their games.



P.S. We have no right to make privat correspondence public but we may provide it to the forum administration.

why did you put another company to investigate if you already said the decision to withhold OP funds is a final decision? why don't you just choose trusted members of this forum to analyze the data you found that served as a basis for accusing the OP? you just say that you have already paid a large amount of LTC but in this case you are not helping to discover the truth, on the contrary you are following a less transparent path so that in the end OP is the injured party and you come out as the guy who was right

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May 15, 2022, 09:49:27 PM
 #253


We trust SoftSwiss and are convinced that they will involve both experts and the licensing authorities to investigate. We are ready to fully trust SoftSwiss decision on this case and we will comply with it no matter what it is.

If it is found that the player acted honestly - we will pay out the winnings, as we have already repeatedly paid out much larger amounts of winnings to other players.[/b]

In my opinion, this is a very clear declaration and I hope that everything will be presented by SoftSwiss as it really happened.

However, there is no time frame for this actions. Is SoftSwiss already working on this case? How long will the investigation take?
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May 15, 2022, 10:34:37 PM
 #254

During the investigation, we encountered more uncertainties on top of the technical issues with the game. Specifically, they relate to how Wazdan communicates with us and the player, which only strengthened our suspicions.
So website such as yours that does not mention your ownership details in your Terms of Service and hides behind anonymity is to be taken seriously?

Which jurisdiction would any legal court would take place in if the victim wants to take LTC Casino to Court?

Which name address should be served if any litigation was to be started by the victim?

Do you know that Wazdan and Felix are different providers? Felix was returned to the casino after they confirmed their fault. Wazdan was removed right after OP won his jackpots.
Yes

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May 16, 2022, 06:31:33 AM
Last edit: May 22, 2022, 10:14:44 AM by bambolina
 #255

Hi everyone,

here is what casino guru ha wrote on my open complaint :

https://imgur.com/a/5VCVfOj


My question is how long does realistically take for a game provider to see if a game has a vulnerability or malfunction? LTC casino went silence since the 21/04/22 here in chat and accordingly to them was because softswiss told to stay on the side while they were investigating.

Apparently if there was a malfunction and i did not manipulate the game i will get my deposits back as the bets will be voided, which i don't get why i i should pay for a game malfunction.

Casino guru said that Softswiss is focusing to see if there was a malfunction or vulnerability  on the game an not on my gameplay  which makes me understand that softSwiss found not foul play too.


Casino guru wrote ;  "Please also consider how your messages look from a casino and 3rd party perspective. You are repeating over and over the same things, and it seems like you don't want to wait for the result of the investigation (which can completely clear all doubts), so the casino is even more suspicious about you".

My question is how long is long enough? how can i be suspicious  on wanting to know the truth asap? it is now almost 3 months!!! They also forget that i have won crypto and the amount i have won 3 months ago in considerably less and the more the wait the less it will be since litecoin has been going down a lot.

They said the same thing with wadzan and got rid of them once they were not happy with the result, i wonder if softwiss has ended the investigation and ltc casino is refusing to accept that too.
Does anyone knows how long should take to make such checks?
Funny how i get called suspicious when i feel the casino is acting suspicious.  



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May 16, 2022, 07:05:53 AM
 #256

here is what casino guru ha wrote on my open complaint :

https://imgur.com/a/e8Qtoa5
Assuming you can trust SoftSwiss, this sounds reasonable.
He also has a point that repeating the same thing over and over only makes your topic harder to read.

Quote
it is now almost 3 months!
That's the deadline according to the Terms. Only when the 3 months are over, you can complain about it taking too long.

Quote
They also forget that i have won crypto and the amount i have won 3 months ago in considerably less and the more the wait the less it will be since litecoin has been going down a lot.
That can go both ways: it can go up too. You can't hold that against the site, it's a risk you took when betting Litecoin.

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May 16, 2022, 07:56:55 AM
 #257

here is what casino guru ha wrote on my open complaint :

https://imgur.com/a/e8Qtoa5
Assuming you can trust SoftSwiss, this sounds reasonable.
He also has a point that repeating the same thing over and over only makes your topic harder to read.

Quote
it is now almost 3 months!
That's the deadline according to the Terms. Only when the 3 months are over, you can complain about it taking too long.

Quote
They also forget that i have won crypto and the amount i have won 3 months ago in considerably less and the more the wait the less it will be since litecoin has been going down a lot.
That can go both ways: it can go up too. You can't hold that against the site, it's a risk you took when betting Litecoin.

To be honest i trust nobody at this point but i have not choice, casino guru said they will check the authenticity of the report when Softswiss will finally pass it to them. Which makes me feel a bit more tranquil. 

3 months are almost over as they blocked my account in February.

True but i was never expecting this circus act , yet i was never expecting to win so i guess this is the price i have to pay for my mistake of choosing this casino.
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May 16, 2022, 10:11:32 PM
 #258

here is what casino guru ha wrote on my open complaint :

https://imgur.com/a/e8Qtoa5
Assuming you can trust SoftSwiss, this sounds reasonable.
He also has a point that repeating the same thing over and over only makes your topic harder to read.

Quote
it is now almost 3 months!
That's the deadline according to the Terms. Only when the 3 months are over, you can complain about it taking too long.

Quote
They also forget that i have won crypto and the amount i have won 3 months ago in considerably less and the more the wait the less it will be since litecoin has been going down a lot.
That can go both ways: it can go up too. You can't hold that against the site, it's a risk you took when betting Litecoin.

To be honest i trust nobody at this point but i have not choice, casino guru said they will check the authenticity of the report when Softswiss will finally pass it to them. Which makes me feel a bit more tranquil. 

3 months are almost over as they blocked my account in February.

True but i was never expecting this circus act , yet i was never expecting to win so i guess this is the price i have to pay for my mistake of choosing this casino.

With so much money, there are also huge emotions. However, the regulations that we agree to when using certain services are to fulfill a specific role. In this case, protect not only the casino but also you. I understand your excitement and nerves, but for everything to happen in accordance with the law, both parties must respect that law. Unfortunately, you can do nothing else but wait for the SoftSwiss report and then take the appropriate steps.
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May 19, 2022, 05:23:26 PM
 #259

LTC Casino has logged in but avoided answering the questions in my last post.

So website such as yours that does not mention your ownership details in your Terms of Service and hides behind anonymity is to be taken seriously?

Which jurisdiction would any legal court would take place in if the victim wants to take LTC Casino to Court?

Which name address should be served if any litigation was to be started by the victim?

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May 20, 2022, 09:39:21 AM
 #260

LTC Casino has logged in but avoided answering the questions in my last post.

So website such as yours that does not mention your ownership details in your Terms of Service and hides behind anonymity is to be taken seriously?

Which jurisdiction would any legal court would take place in if the victim wants to take LTC Casino to Court?

Which name address should be served if any litigation was to be started by the victim?


I'm  not surprised at all!
Tomorrow their time (again) expires in my complaint in casino guru.
Let's  see what they are going to say this time!!!
Their t&c 3  months are literally expiring on the 26t of May.
They had plenty  of time  to investigate.
I wonder  if casino guru will extend  their time again if they won't  be able  to produce  some evidences.
Unfortunately  I personally  holds zero hopes as in my eyes they way they are acting is extremely  suspicious
Also since Softswiss was called upon I wonder if their reps will  step  up as now Ltc casino has publicly  made them part of this case.
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