Campaign to improve posting quality for local boards

[1miau]

I have shared compaign in my local Thread Pakistan and like to be added in your first page. I have double checked before posting and I believe that there is no mistake. You can check it and if you see any mistake, I will edit.

Pakistan پوسٹ کے معیار کو بڑھانے کے لیے مہمات

It's very nice to have a translation for our Pakistan local forum. I'm not a native speaker of your local language and it's a very different language from German / English, so it's very hard to check but it looks like you really put some effort into it. We like to see such effort and you made good points in your topic. 

Also added to my list. 


Someone requested to enlarge your font to make it more readable. I don't know if it's an issue but if it's helpful, maybe you can increase font size:

السلام علیکم دوستو، آج کے موضوع میں ہم پوسٹ کی معیار کی بات کریں گے۔ اس سے پہلے کئی پاکستان کے سینئر ممبرز اور دوسرے بورڈز جیسے میٹا میں  پوسٹ کی معیار پر کافی مباحثے ہو چکی ہیں اور مہم بھی  چلائی گئی ہے، مگر اس پوسٹ کا مقصد وہ تمام باتیں ہیں  جن سے ہمار پوسٹ کی معی ر کافی حد تک

Bro. I suggest that You should Enhance your font when you write something in Urdu for better visibility. 12 ya 13 number best hota hai. (Forum ka Default Font 10 hai)

Great Post Btw. Keep it up.

Thanks OP for bringing such a well minded compaign. Local Boards posts needed to be informative, well explained, well researched which useful for readers. Newbie generally started with very poor quality posting but your idea will help all local board to produce constructive posters. Bitcointalk is best forum for any crypto related information and its should be cleaned from junk and spam posts.

Of course, it's a very important point and teaching it to Newbies is very beneficial for Bitcointalk because many Newbies still don't know. 

[Etranger]

Of course, it's a very important point and teaching it to Newbies is very beneficial for Bitcointalk because many Newbies still don't know. 

Not only newbies, to be honest. Everyone keeps talking about newbies and how they break forum rules because of not knowing them or because of not paying decent attention to them. But I suppose many forget that those newbies eventually become members, full members and even higher, but they still don`t know a lot about forum policy and continue to write low quality posts even though they are not newbies any more, at least technically speaking. That is why I believe that advice for improving quality are useful for everyone despite forum rank and activity. If a person strive to learn he will always find something new to himself.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I have shared compaign in my local Thread Pakistan and like to be added in your first page. I have double checked before posting and I believe that there is no mistake. You can check it and if you see any mistake, I will edit.

Congrats for this translation, HONDACD125! I am more than glad to see another user which managed to realize this complex translation, which is, in fact, an adaptation to a local board. It's difficult to check thoroughy the Urdu translation but, from what I see, you added some important links in your post and I think they are valuable for Urdu users.

Apart from this, I have only one small request to you. Please edit your post title and change it from "Re: Pakistan پوسٹ کے معیار کو بڑھانے کے لیے مہمات" to "وسٹ کے معیار کو بڑھانے کے لیے مہمات". It will look more professional this way.


@1miau: please don't forget also to add to OP zasad@'s translation.

[1miau]

Of course, it's a very important point and teaching it to Newbies is very beneficial for Bitcointalk because many Newbies still don't know. 

Not only newbies, to be honest.
...
But I suppose many forget that those newbies eventually become members, full members and even higher, but they still don`t know a lot about forum policy and continue to write low quality posts even though they are not newbies any more, at least technically speaking. That is why I believe that advice for improving quality are useful for everyone despite forum rank and activity.

Very good comment and I totally agree here. Older members should know all the issues mentioned in our campaign and still we have many old members ingoring them. Mabye because older members are not aware and uneducated, maybe because it's more convenient for them to disregard common advice. For example, even old members engage in pyramid quoting, unnecessary Denglish, tons of spelling and punctuation errors.
You have written in our German loacal board as well and despite that you are not from Germany, your posting quality from a spelling perspective is often better than the average (old member) low-effort poster in our local section.
It is really a lot about willingness to lern, where many old members needs a reminder. Hopefully, our campaign will be the reminder. 

@1miau: please don't forget also to add to OP zasad@'s translation.

Looks like I've forgotten to add it. It's now included in our OP. 

[Etranger]

You have written in our German loacal board as well and despite that you are not from Germany, your posting quality from a spelling perspective is often better than the average (old member) low-effort poster in our local section.

Thank you, writing in your German Local is even more important to me in terms of the language, than crypto discussions, to be honest. Right now I don't have another opportunity to practice my German, and it was such a relief and pleasure, than the German community accepted me, even though I am not a native speaker.

Speaking about Denglisch, I was eager to ask for some time now, why do you consider it such a bad thing? I mean, in a modern world, we cannot escape the spread of English-speaking culture, and of course, each language will borrow words to one degree or another, especially if their meanings and subject components were originally invented in the English language field.

For example, I don't really know how to say Halving or Mining or Staking the way it would be correct in German. Moreover, I don't know which article I should use with this words, and this is not the kind of information you easily get from student`s language book. That is why I believe, than sometimes the usage of borrowed words are justified, especially when you don`t have an alternative and analogue in your mother tongue.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Speaking about Denglisch, I was eager to ask for some time now, why do you consider it such a bad thing? I mean, in a modern world, we cannot escape the spread of English-speaking culture, and of course, each language will borrow words to one degree or another, especially if their meanings and subject components were originally invented in the English language field.

Denglish is a bad thing because it alters your mother language. You as a nation and each individual of the nation should do everything is possible to preserve the mother language.

Think about a natural reservation. All visitors must keep that place clean and as unaltered as possible. And someone asks: why can't I throw garbage on the ground and leave it there? / Because this is how this reservation can be preserved, that's why.

Does it make sense?

For example, I don't really know how to say Halving or Mining or Staking the way it would be correct in German. [...] That is why I believe, than sometimes the usage of borrowed words are justified, especially when you don`t have an alternative and analogue in your mother tongue.

Your answer is here:

Denglisch bezieht sich also darauf, wenn es eine geläufige deutsche Übersetzung gibt, diese Übersetzung aber nicht verwendet wird, nicht unbedingt jedoch, wenn das Wort kryptospezifisch (wie z.B. Airdrop) oder überaus geläufig ist (z.B. Manager).

In English, it means this

Denglish therefore refers to when there is a common German translation but this translation is not used, but not necessarily when the word is crypto-specific (such as airdrop) or extremely common (e.g. manager).

In conclusion: words which can not be translated can be used as they are; words used worldwide ("manager") can also be used as they are. But words which can be translated must be used in their German form.

[DYING_S0UL]

Denglish is a bad thing because it alters your mother language. You as a nation and each individual of the nation should do everything is possible to preserve the mother language.

You and 1miau are absolutely right. Using Denglish is not advisable. For most of the languages, Denglish is not entirely necessary. But for some languages, I think we can pardon the use of Denglish.

Here is why I think that: I'm a Bangla speaker, which is my native language. But there are so many words in English that we don't use their translated meaning. Instead, we speak or write it as it is pronounced. Not that we don't know that meaning or anything. We know the real meaning, but people are used to speaking pronounced English. Like the words grammar, payment, sports, trading, admin, moderator, report, etc. These are all I can think of at this moment. I'm not saying everyone uses Denglish by default. But for most of us, if you check our local thread, those words are written as pronounced. We have the Bangla meaning. But we don't use that. We are not used to it, and sometimes it may sound funny.
 
I have an explanation why we use Denglish a lot. First of all, Bengla is a mixed language. Why mix? I'll give the reason. The land where we are located was ruled by different conquerors at different times. We have a vast history of war, fighting, battles, and rebellion. And every time we were ruled by a party, different cultural heritages were exchanged. That's why we have such a wide variety of words. If you compare from the very beginning, you'll see there are many, many words that didn't originally belong to the Bangla language source but somehow got added to it. People use different bangla in different parts of Bangladesh. Not totally different, but slightly. But if we look at English, it's almost everywhere universal.

In conclusion: words which can not be translated can be used as they are; words used worldwide ("manager") can also be used as they are. But words which can be translated must be used in their German form.

My side conclusion: We should avoid using Denglish. But we should use Denglish for most common words. As people are used to that Denglish. If we use translated meaning, some even might wonder what that word is. But the whole point of a translation was for the people to able to understand it.
 
Everything I wrote above is totally my own personal opinion, from my own perspective. So if you think I did anything wrong, feel free to correct me.

[1miau]

Here is why I think that: I'm a Bangla speaker, which is my native language.

That's a great explanation and Learn Bitcoin (who's also from our Bengali local board) told me the same, that Bangla language isn't really a historical native language because it originated from many sources, for example from England's rule in that part of the world and Bengali was heavily influenced from it. But you already did a great job here explaining it.
That's where German and the Bengali language are very different.

I'm judging "Denglish" or GazetaBitcoin "Romglish" (Romanian + English) from the following viewpoint:

In German, we have a lot of words, even many words for the same thing, sometimes a little bit different meaning (just nuances). So, in Germany we have these words but often, someone wants to be "cool" because he's using English words instead of German ones, while there ARE plenty of German words to express exactly, what he's wanting to say.


And if we don't apply these words, our original language might go extinct and get replaced by a horrible gibberish, where our native language gets less words every time because words are replaced by a different language all the time and it's a big pity for our native language.
As someone, who's well aware that in German, many people don't apply our native language correctly, I have "avoiding Denglish / applying our language properly" as my Merit criteria to make aware to avoid eroding our own language.
Because once a word is replaced, such words are lost in our language and it's very sad in my opinion


So, we can see, it seems to be really very different for our languages.  

[DYING_S0UL]

I understand your point about teaching people how to fish, and I support your efforts to make this forum less spammed, however I have doubts, reasonable as far as I can see, that everyone can be taught. I mean, users which light_warrior reports in the Plagiarism and AI report threads make regular copy past and apparently they don't see any problem with this, despite the existence of many training and quality improving initiatives and help in understanding the rules of the forum, as well as opportunities to turn to senior users for advice.

Just because you can't improve everyone's post quality/habits, doesn't automatically mean that what 1miau/GazetaBitcoin (and others) are trying to do is completely useless and waste of time. Sure, we all know that majority of members (especially new ones) are essentially shitposters who came for one reason only, but every once in a while promising new member appears who needs just a little bit of help to improve and change the bad habits.

Those who think it's useless are actually useless. They are just too lazy to accept the truth and start learning. I too am lacking in terms of knowledge and quality, but at least I'm not afraid to learn further. At first, everyone is a shitposter. Nobody is born a quality poster. But those who are constantly trying to improve their posts become quality posters. That's how I see it.

1miau and Gazeta they are doing a magnificent job at teaching the forum. When I first joined the forum, I didn't even knew what BBcodes were! I though it was some kind of HTML code. Later when I translated a post for Gazeta, then I realized what Bbcodes were, how they worked. After that I learned of PGP keys, what there were, what their purpose were. The same way before.

Just because one think its useless doesn't mean its useless to everyone. It could be harmful for one, it could be blessing for other.

[Etranger]

And if we don't apply these words, our original language might go extinct and get replaced by a horrible gibberish, where our native language gets less words every time because words are replaced by a different language all the time and it's a big pity for our native language.
As someone, who's well aware that in German, many people don't apply our native language correctly, I have "avoiding Denglish / applying our language properly" as my Merit criteria to make aware to avoid eroding our own language.
Because once a word is replaced, such words are lost in our language and it's very sad in my opinion

I totally agree with your point about the necessity to keep the language "clean". I believe that speakers of all languages sooner or later come to the realisation that their language became mixed with other ones and original native words are not longer used commonly. However, there are two different situations with that matter, as far as I can see.

The first one is worse for me, and it lies in Surzhyk, as we call it in Ukraine. When grammar rules, phonetic features, sentence construction structure from two or three different languages are mixed. When the words of one language are pronounced in the manner of another, with intonation, stress, characteristic of another language. It sounds terrible, unnatural, illiterate and disgusting. We have a lot of this in Ukraine, because the Russian language and culture were planted here for centuries, and people forgot their Ukrainian language because of this. I believe that what you mean by Denglisch is closer to Surzhyk, and I can not agree more that thees phenomena must be erased from any language.

However, I also can think about the second case. When some of the words from another language are "borrowed" and begin be used in other one. For example, such words as selfie, smartphone, like, laptop are commonly used in Ukrainian language. Of course, we have some linguistic initiatives to create Ukrainian analogies for thees words, but I personally find this unnecessary and unnatural, because these translations don't sound relevant and original, they sound fake. I don't use them, I am more comfortable with English words. And I don't see anything wrong with it, because I understand, that we live in a globalised world with dominant English-speaking culture. And it is impossible to stay aside, not for the separate person, nor cultures. There are no more separate, authentic, closed cultures and languages, because the impact of globalization is very visible and strong.

[1miau]

I totally agree with your point about the necessity to keep the language "clean".

My intention is not really about keeping it "clean", it's more like keeping it "sane" ( = a language which is nice to speak / write).
I've no problems with new words being derived from other languages if there's no common translation available (yet). This has happened in the past and will keep happening. The only thing we should avoid is any excessive influence, like English is currently the most dangerous language. I can remember that France has an official association in place to do this job to keep too many English words in check.

The first one is worse for me, and it lies in Surzhyk, as we call it in Ukraine. When grammar rules, phonetic features, sentence construction structure from two or three different languages are mixed. When the words of one language are pronounced in the manner of another, with intonation, stress, characteristic of another language. It sounds terrible, unnatural, illiterate and disgusting. We have a lot of this in Ukraine, because the Russian language and culture were planted here for centuries, and people forgot their Ukrainian language because of this. I believe that what you mean by Denglisch is closer to Surzhyk, and I can not agree more that thees phenomena must be erased from any language.

Okay, I don't know this for German maybe it's because Ukrainian and Russian are very similar.
But interesting story. 

However, I also can think about the second case. When some of the words from another language are "borrowed" and begin be used in other one. For example, such words as selfie, smartphone, like, laptop are commonly used in Ukrainian language.
...
And it is impossible to stay aside, not for the separate person, nor cultures. There are no more separate, authentic, closed cultures and languages, because the impact of globalization is very visible and strong.

This has happened in the past as well and for German, some words are derived from French, for example and also for words, where no German word existed before. This is totally acceptable, if there's no direct German translation possible, considered that these words are now pronounced in a German way, that they get common in our language and such cases are enriching our language because such a word didn't exist in our language before.
Like you've said: Selfie, Smartphone or Laptop (all words capitalized as we are writing German) are words, where we don't have an appropriate translation in German as well. Maybe there will be one at some point but there's no one yet.

So, a simple rule regarding unnecessary Denglish: if there's a (common) german word existing, we should choose it of course. If there's no (common) German word existing it might be appropriate to "borrow" a foreign word, if it's fitting into the German language and can't be translated in a common way. For example, for "Blockchain", we don't say "Blockkette" (which would be a currently non-existant translation, still people would understand it but it's not common).
It might change but I wouldn't call "Laptop", "Blockchain" etc. to be "unnecessary Denglish" right now. 

[Etranger]

The first one is worse for me, and it lies in Surzhyk, as we call it in Ukraine. When grammar rules, phonetic features, sentence construction structure from two or three different languages are mixed. When the words of one language are pronounced in the manner of another, with intonation, stress, characteristic of another language. It sounds terrible, unnatural, illiterate and disgusting. We have a lot of this in Ukraine, because the Russian language and culture were planted here for centuries, and people forgot their Ukrainian language because of this. I believe that what you mean by Denglisch is closer to Surzhyk, and I can not agree more that thees phenomena must be erased from any language.

Okay, I don't know this for German maybe it's because Ukrainian and Russian are very similar.
But interesting story. 

Actually, Ukrainian and Russian are not that similar, as it is commonly being thought. Especially by foreigners. They are different by sentence construction, by using Fall (I don`t know how to say it in English, but I mean Nominativ, Genitiv and the others, you have 4 in German, we have 7 in Ukrainian, and there are 6 in Russian), but mostly it is the  pronunciation that differs. The "melody" of these two languages vary a lot. And that is what being completely mixed up and abused in Surzhyk. That is why I hate it so much, because it destroys two authentic languages by creating something terribly disgusting and annoying for your ears.

[348Judah]

Thanks OP for bringing such a well minded compaign. Local Boards posts needed to be informative, well explained, well researched which useful for readers. Newbie generally started with very poor quality posting but your idea will help all local board to produce constructive posters.

Local board can also be seen as the main fundamental section of the forum everyone of us belongs because we all have our indigenous language we speak locally while English is just the general official language, members should take local boards as important as where they should be able to give their best because it has been made simplified for them to conveniently express their mind and contributions to the forum and this begins with every members of their local board getting one or two benefits from what they are posting, local board will make every get carried along with the use of bitcoin irrespective of their dialect or race since they have the opportunity to learn in their local dialects.

[Chilwell]

Today, Latviand has PMed me and reserved to create a translated version for our Filipino Local Board.
I've accepted his request and added him to my OP where I've listed all translations:

Reserved Translations

Bengali - roksana.hee
Filipino - Latviand

Looking forward to his work.  

With your permission I will like to translate this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language". Thank you.

[GazetaBitcoin]

With your permission I will like to translate this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language". Thank you.

Chilwell, before starting this translation, have you read what it implies? Have you read previous posts and OP? I mean parts like this:

Therefore, in order to have a proper translation -- meaning a proper content inside your translation, you should also add some topics / posts written in your language (either by you or by another Bengali user), thus the translation will not contain only resources in English or another language. You must add also resources written in Bengali. Obviously, these resources in Bengali should address issues present in Bengali board. We talked about the mix of Romanian with English, respectively about the mix of German with English. But only you should know the issues present in the Bengali board. (Obviously, you can consult about this with other Bengali users -- I would recommend to talk to Learn Bitcoin about this subject.)

I just want to make sure that you understand that this translation is not a "normal" one, but an adaptation to your local board needs / issues.

[Chilwell]

With your permission I will like to translate this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language". Thank you.

Chilwell, before starting this translation, have you read what it implies? Have you read previous posts and OP? I mean parts like this:

Therefore, in order to have a proper translation -- meaning a proper content inside your translation, you should also add some topics / posts written in your language (either by you or by another Bengali user), thus the translation will not contain only resources in English or another language. You must add also resources written in Bengali. Obviously, these resources in Bengali should address issues present in Bengali board. We talked about the mix of Romanian with English, respectively about the mix of German with English. But only you should know the issues present in the Bengali board. (Obviously, you can consult about this with other Bengali users -- I would recommend to talk to Learn Bitcoin about this subject.)

I just want to make sure that you understand that this translation is not a "normal" one, but an adaptation to your local board needs / issues.

Now I understood that it not normal translation which I thought it was, I first read it but didn't put much attention, now I understand the direction it heading to, I once come across this type of translation made by "fillippone" here is link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5156874.msg51545936#msg51545936 which i try my possible best to do it but I failed and now this one is similar to that of fillippone, if I will be guide, I will make sure I do the two.

Thanks for drawing my attention to this noticed, I will love it if you will be opportune to put me through because the is an interesting topic that our local need badly.

[Hatchy]

I would like to reserve my local language and post a translation in my local board
#Proof of JOIN
Language:pidgin
Bitcointalk Account:Hatchy

[GazetaBitcoin]

I would like to reserve my local language and post a translation in my local board
#Proof of JOIN
Language:pidgin

Have you read just a few posts above your that another Pidgin translator said he wants to make this translation?

With your permission I will like to translate this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language". Thank you.

[Hatchy]

Have you read just a few posts above your that another Pidgin translator said he wants to make this translation?

Sorry about that @GazetaBitcoin, I just taught he won't be doing the translation, since he said here that he failed in the last attempt translating a similar thread made by @ fillippone. I'm not saying he can't try but just dropped my application, just incase he is unable to finish his translation of this campaign. Because from my observations, he has reserved all 1miau's post,

< >

With your permission I will like to translate this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language". Thank you.

Today, Latviand has PMed me and reserved to create a translated version for our Filipino Local Board.
I've accepted his request and added him to my OP where I've listed all translations:

Reserved Translations

Bengali - roksana.hee
Filipino - Latviand

Looking forward to his work.  

With your permission I will like to translate this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language". Thank you.

After all images are inaccessible on imgur right now, all pictures are available again for this topic. 


In addition, I've added all known translations in my OP:


Translations

Language	translated by	Title
___________________________	_____________________	_______________________________________________________________________
Română (Romanian)	GazetaBitcoin	[GHID] Cum îți creezi o adresă Bitcoin personalizată (vanitygen) – pas cu pas
Deutsch (German)	1miau	So legt ihr euch eine persönliche Bitcoin-Adresse an (vanitygen)
中文 (Chinese)	ericz	一步步创建个性化BTC地址
Pilipinas	Wintersoldier	[Guide] Paaano bumuo ng customized Bitcoin-Address (vanitygen) – step by step
Polski	Tytanowy Janusz	[TUTORIAL] Spersonalizowany adres Bitcoina
العربية (Arabic)	khaled0111	كيفية الحصول على عنوان بيتكوين مميز

If I've missed any of your translations, please let me know. 

With your permission I will like to translate this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language". Thank you.

< >

If I will be permit I love to take this topic to my local board naija "pidgin language".

and I wonder how he intends on finishing all these translations by himself. There isn't supposed to be any competition when it comes to translation. I think his behaviors will soon raise an alarm on the reputation board soon.If you can't translate a post, you may as well let others do it. It won't be nice having reserve a post for you to translate and at the end, you still couldn't translate such post. I will just have to wait for a while, when I'm done with mine.

[GazetaBitcoin]

Hey Hatchy! Chilwell did not say that he is not doing the translation anymore. I believe it's best if you discuss with him about it.

However, the question remains, even if he steps down and you come up: do you think that you isolated some serious issues in your local board, which can be improved by translating this thread? If you isolated problems in your local board, then did you also find resources in your languages which address those problems? If there are no such resources already written, did you think about writing a topic addressing the existent issues from your local board?


@1miau: I'd suggest to update the application code sequence, thus it will be even more clear for applicants that this translation is not a regular one. At th moment, the application looks like this:

Code:

I would like to reserve my local language and post a translation in my local board
#Proof of JOIN
Language: 
Bitcointalk Account:

Perhaps we could add something like this:

Code:

I would like to reserve my local language and post a translation in my [name local board here].
I noticed the following issues inside this local board, which can be improved by translating this topic: issue 1, issue 2, issue 3 etc.
I have the following resources which I'll include in the translation and which address the problems from my local board: resource 1, resource 2, resource 3 etc.
(N.b. -- last sentence can look also like this: I did not find any existent topics which address the issues from my local board, but I will write a topic addressing these problems -- in this case the new topic should be ready before the translation is done.)
#Proof of JOIN
Language: 
Bitcointalk Account:

What do you think?