We are all Hodlonaut

[o_e_l_e_o]

so if anyone wanted to argue CSW case about "moving 'bitcoin' to csw address. the solution is simple.. tell CSW to do it on the network he considers his true bitcoin..

He already did that: https://bitcoinassociation.net/bitcoin-association-for-bsv-tulip-trading-ltd-settlement-statement-and-faq/
Not much to be gained from stealing a million coins of a shitcoin which is worth 1/500th of what bitcoin is worth and has no real volume so couldn't be sold to anyone anyway. Which is why he needs to continue attacking real bitcoin.

I read that post, but I was interested in your opinion, considering that they all cited some completely different things as the reasons for their actions without publicly saying that the real reason is what Faketoshi is doing. However, some things are much clearer now, because Faketoshi knows exactly where to direct his attacks and they obviously bring results - only one more question remains, is he doing it alone or does he have some very powerful allies operating from the shadows?

I'm not 100% sure, but even if you think CSW has had no impact on any developers yet, it is easy to see how one or more developers could decide to protect themselves from his litigation by either reactively or preemptively cease their involvement with bitcoin. It is clear CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre, and therefore has the whole CoinGeek entity and its employees doing his bidding and repeating/publishing what they are told to.

[aoluain]

so if anyone wanted to argue CSW case about "moving 'bitcoin' to csw address. the solution is simple.. tell CSW to do it on the network he considers his true bitcoin..

He already did that: https://bitcoinassociation.net/bitcoin-association-for-bsv-tulip-trading-ltd-settlement-statement-and-faq/
Not much to be gained from stealing a million coins of a shitcoin which is worth 1/500th of what bitcoin is worth and has no real volume so couldn't be sold to anyone anyway. Which is why he needs to continue attacking real bitcoin.

I read that post, but I was interested in your opinion, considering that they all cited some completely different things as the reasons for their actions without publicly saying that the real reason is what Faketoshi is doing. However, some things are much clearer now, because Faketoshi knows exactly where to direct his attacks and they obviously bring results - only one more question remains, is he doing it alone or does he have some very powerful allies operating from the shadows?

I'm not 100% sure, but even if you think CSW has had no impact on any developers yet, it is easy to see how one or more developers could decide to protect themselves from his litigation by either reactively or preemptively cease their involvement with bitcoin. It is clear CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre, and therefore has the whole CoinGeek entity and its employees doing his bidding and repeating/publishing what they are told to.

TBH thats worrying, people ^{generally speaking} should be more worried about this
scenario rather than any of the other array of Bitcoin worries which seem to be discussed on
the forum.

Couldnt the Dev's quit working on the network and just start working on it "anonymously" ?

Really veering off topic now but in the case of Cobra, how do you file a legal notice on someone
who's identity is not known? how do you enforce it if that person ignores it?

[CryptSafe]

So I just stumbled across this post from Greg Maxwell on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ws8wfd/starting_september_12th_in_oslo_norway_hodlonaut/ikxqxoo/. Everyone with even a passing interest in bitcoin (which includes you, if you are reading this forum) should read this post. In fact, I would read the whole thread, because Greg has made a number of excellent posts.

Next month a pseudonymous individual by the handle of Hodlonaut will go to court in Norway to defend himself against known fraudster CSW. For anyone out of the loop, here is an update on the case: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/timeline-of-hodlonaut-craig-wright-case. The very abridged version is that Holdonaut posted on Twitter what everyone knows - that CSW is not Satoshi - and now there is a court case to determine whether these tweets are lawful and whether Hodlonaut has to pay damages to CSW.

This case doesn't just affect Hodlonaut; it affects all of us. Hodlonaut is not just defending himself; he is defending us all, as explained in Greg's post I linked to above.

So what can we do to help? Well, CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre and CoinGeek. Hodlonaut, on the other hand, is being bankrolled by nobody. Got some spare sats kicking around? I can think of no worthier cause than the defense of bitcoin itself.

https://www.defendingbtc.com/
https://nitter.it/defendingBTC

#WeAreAllHodlonaut

Hodling is part of the game. You want more profit you need to hodle. The more you hodle the more valuable it becomes. Hodlers are  high earners.

[Upgrade00]

This is a sad scenario. I remember once asking on the forum why everyone not just ignore CSW and the other people impersonating Satoshi. I got my answer in that thread, on how they can spread narratives and with enough back up from the media control those narratives.
This situation further proves how I was wrong and people like CSW should not be ignored.

Would be following up the case and donating to Hodlonaut defense cause.

Hodling is part of the game. You want more profit you need to hodle. The more you hodle the more valuable it becomes. Hodlers are  high earners.

There is no point mindlessly spamming around the forum. You are already a member ranked user and would need merits, not only activity to rank up. Try reading before you comment.

[franky1]

who's identity is not known? how do you enforce it if that person ignores it?

well by not identifying/turning up at court.. the case is deemed undefended and thus the claimant wins by default

there could have been many strategies to play eg transfer website ownership
and respond that the website is no longer in cobra's control. thus cobra cannot respond or be involved as the website is nothing to do with him.
thus causing CSW to have to re-file with the new owner..

and let CSW then try playing "catch a possum" trying to communicate with the next owner..
where the ownership changes hands faster than CSW can file claims..

but yea mentioning tactics after a verdict, becomes redundant for that case. but an idea for future cases


(this tactic is used alot in cases involving motor vehicles. where there is a risk of having to surrender a car.. people put their car in other peoples names.. or in most cases only ever use a hire car so the car is never the accused persons property to be seized)

[GeorgeJohn]

and now there is a court case to determine whether these tweets are lawful and whether Hodlonaut has to pay damages to CSW.

It is a funny world we live in, one in which an impersonator is suing for damages because reasonable people didn't take in his lies. This tweet and all the tweets and articles that expose the conman's lies should only be deemed unlawful and defamatory when he proves that he is Satoshi, which he cannot. Once he can prove to be Satoshi, whatever has been said against him becomes unlawful, but as he will never be able to prove that, they remain true and lawful to anybody with reason and understanding of what bitcoin is.

From the beginning i have comprehend your emphasis. But what i want to inform you, is that many people has made claims of been Satoshi Nakamoto in different occasions. No claim or evidence should make some of us to believe that this particular individual is a Satoshi Nakamoto.

[Z-tight]

and now there is a court case to determine whether these tweets are lawful and whether Hodlonaut has to pay damages to CSW.

It is a funny world we live in, one in which an impersonator is suing for damages because reasonable people didn't take in his lies. This tweet and all the tweets and articles that expose the conman's lies should only be deemed unlawful and defamatory when he proves that he is Satoshi, which he cannot. Once he can prove to be Satoshi, whatever has been said against him becomes unlawful, but as he will never be able to prove that, they remain true and lawful to anybody with reason and understanding of what bitcoin is.

From the beginning i have comprehend your emphasis. But what i want to inform you, is that many people has made claims of been Satoshi Nakamoto in different occasions. No claim or evidence should make some of us to believe that this particular individual is a Satoshi Nakamoto.

Bruh...that was what i thought before this thread, but thanks to o_e_l_e_o and franky1, i now know better and have an understanding of what CSW's motives are, it is not about CSW claiming to be Satoshi anymore, he isn't, he knows he isn't and he feels many people are finding about his many lies, so this is more about staying RELEVANT than proving anything to anybody. CSW doesn't even want anybody to believe anything anymore, he may have run out of lies, so he tries to stay in the news, and silence people from calling him out online by suing those that do, wasting their money on useless lawsuits, and if we are sincere, not many people have that financial power to withstand a lawsuit with the conman, read all the thread you'll understand. This is a snippet from a reddit post by Greg in the op that sums it all up:

he easily can drive trial costs into the millions or tens of millions of dollars. It creates a situation where the most rational course of action in court is arguably to just let him win as fast as possible in order to minimize cost, since you'd come out better that way then seeing it through and winning.

[ChiBitCTy]

I was actually going to post about this, thanks for sharing.  First off, I've made it no secret how much I appreciate GMaxwell.  We are beyond lucky to have him here on this forum.  He's right there with all the top cypherpunks  (ie all the guys who are way more likely to be satoshi then Craig Wright could ever imagine being).  So good on him for this.

If that scamming piece of shit were to actually win this lawsuit, man..I will lose all faith in humanity (not that I haven't already).  This has probably been posted in this thread, I've not had time to read all comments yet, but Michael Saylor I believe donated 1 million to his battle versus Wright (make me want to puke just typing his name).

[franky1]

so this is more about staying RELEVANT than proving anything to anybody. CSW doesn't even want anybody to believe anything anymore,

think of it more so as, he was, is and always shall be irrelevant. and there was, is and always will be nothing to believe about him

he always has been, is and will be a nobody.

we should not be trying to push his name into crypto media outlets, nor should those crypto outlets be trying to push him into mainstream media outlets.

but Michael Saylor I believe donated 1 million to his battle versus CSW(make me want to puke just typing his name).

Fixed that for you to ease your stomach
no one should speak his name, because he is irrelevant and not worth naming

the only moniker that is used is Compulsive Scammy Weasel
or any similar abbreviation that means the same thing

Convention Surfing Wannabe
Court S.l.a.p.ping Whore
Compost Slurping Worm
Copyright Stealing Wimp

you cannot defamate (defecate) his name if you never use his name
his reputation is based around his [self proclaimed profession title]+birth certified name, which no one mentions thus no reputational harm done

the smart plan is this
CSW is a pseudonym of a fraud, theif, criminal, scammer. trickster, idiot.. persona no one has or should meet
if anyone wants to name steal and want to associate themselves as being known as CSW so that they can try suing people for calling CSW a scammer, or[insert any insult]
they they are simply outting themselves as being a fraud/scammer by wanting to be known as being the scammer pseudonym CSW

[o_e_l_e_o]

Couldnt the Dev's quit working on the network and just start working on it "anonymously" ?

Another excellent comment from Greg on the Reddit thread has answered this question for you: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ws8wfd/starting_september_12th_in_oslo_norway_hodlonaut/il0gvgy/

Really veering off topic now but in the case of Cobra, how do you file a legal notice on someone who's identity is not known? how do you enforce it if that person ignores it?

You can still file charges against a pseudonymous individual, and you will win by default if they do not violate their privacy to defend themselves. Although you cannot enforce the rulings on that person, you can certainly enforce the rulings through third parties. In the Wright v Cobra case, this would have been in the form of all UK ISPs simply banning access to bitcoin.org. There is a statement made by Cobra after that judgement was passed available here, which answers this more thoroughly: https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/Bitcoin.org/issues/3698

I've not had time to read all comments yet, but Michael Saylor I believe donated 1 million

It's certainly suspected that he was in the individual behind that donation, but I don't think it has been confirmed. Given that that donation was made anonymously, then I'm not keen to go digging to try and expose the individual responsible. If they want to remain anonymous, then let them.

[Mauser]

So what can we do to help? Well, CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre and CoinGeek. Hodlonaut, on the other hand, is being bankrolled by nobody. Got some spare sats kicking around? I can think of no worthier cause than the defense of bitcoin itself.

What a sad world we live in, where one man has to defend his own word in court against a conman. Shouldn't his words be protected by freedom of speech? First of all we know that Satoshi never wanted to go public with his identity and profit from bitcoins through publicity. To all of us on the forum it seems like a no brainer that CSW is not Satoshi, but why is some media buying into this story even. Maybe it's more about the controversy that they like to report on and this lawsuit helps makes it even a bigger story for the media. I am glad the community is coming together to help Hodlonaut in these difficult times, he is not fighting for himself but for the integrity of the whole crypto community. We should not be giving in to conman and scammers. Hopefully this lawsuit will not be going on for too long and the judge will realise that there is merit for it and through it out.

[franky1]

To all of us on the forum it seems like a no brainer that CSW is not Satoshi, but why is some media buying into this story even.

though "drama sales papers"(old fashion clickbait)
if mainstream media call him a conman outright. they will see a court order to appear in their mailbox..
so they have to be more careful and say things like 'self appointed' or 'self proclaimed'

they dont really say "the proven and certified and honorary guy...X"
but saying the opposite leads to them being thrown into the legal hunting ground of the court system

this is why we should not promote the idiot to be worthy of a mainstream media story. not only so that main stream media have to use those careful words that make some people then think he might/must be who he claims to be.. but also by trying to keep his name out of media means he cant play his fame game for profit

if we keep him out of the public view, then the public wont find him interesting enough to want to learn more about him nor want to buy any tickets to hear his story, due to his irrelevance that no one cares about.

however by trying to spread awareness, heightens his fame and ends up encouraging people to want to learn his story, which means buying tickets to his conventions or his future book/movie deals.

we should support those fighting against him, but doing it in a way that does not stir more media drama in csw favour

[Doan9269]

so if anyone wanted to argue CSW case about "moving 'bitcoin' to csw address. the solution is simple.. tell CSW to do it on the network he considers his true bitcoin..

He already did that: https://bitcoinassociation.net/bitcoin-association-for-bsv-tulip-trading-ltd-settlement-statement-and-faq/
Not much to be gained from stealing a million coins of a shitcoin which is worth 1/500th of what bitcoin is worth and has no real volume so couldn't be sold to anyone anyway. Which is why he needs to continue attacking real bitcoin.

Another thing Craig has failed to understand in this whole situation is that he is not the first to be claiming Satoshi and all the terms giving for him to prove that he couldn't, am very sure of Satoshi has his account on the forum here which has been inactive for some while, he should make publication about it and just make it active for once, he didn't need to bother with the signing of message through his address.

I read that post, but I was interested in your opinion, considering that they all cited some completely different things as the reasons for their actions without publicly saying that the real reason is what Faketoshi is doing. However, some things are much clearer now, because Faketoshi knows exactly where to direct his attacks and they obviously bring results - only one more question remains, is he doing it alone or does he have some very powerful allies operating from the shadows?

I'm not 100% sure, but even if you think CSW has had no impact on any developers yet, it is easy to see how one or more developers could decide to protect themselves from his litigation by either reactively or preemptively cease their involvement with bitcoin. It is clear CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre, and therefore has the whole CoinGeek entity and its employees doing his bidding and repeating/publishing what they are told to.

The real Satoshi couldn't have gone this far relying on centralized system to defend himself, Craig will definitely regret some of his deals with CoinGeek later

This is a sad scenario. I remember once asking on the forum why everyone not just ignore CSW and the other people impersonating Satoshi. I got my answer in that thread, on how they can spread narratives and with enough back up from the media control those narratives.

The shame here is that he might actually want to back off the case but the nuisance he had started has gone beyond his control, but instead of staying mute about it all he keeps further displaying how curious his stupidity is, there must be a media advantage he possibly aimed at getting in doing this.

[Lucius]

I'm not 100% sure, but even if you think CSW has had no impact on any developers yet, it is easy to see how one or more developers could decide to protect themselves from his litigation by either reactively or preemptively cease their involvement with bitcoin. It is clear CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre, and therefore has the whole CoinGeek entity and its employees doing his bidding and repeating/publishing what they are told to.

It seems to me that Faketoshi is just a pawn in a much bigger game, and that someone else is making moves in an attempt to cause as much damage to Bitcoin as possible. Faketoshi has never seemed very intelligent to me, so sometimes I suspect that all this he is doing is not his idea. However, no matter how hard they try, they should be aware that by attacking any person who supports Bitcoin and the truth, they are attacking thousands or even millions of others who will not bow their heads and give up the fight.

Cobra perhaps best described how it will all end one day.

I believe at some point the COPA case will prove Wright perjured himself in obtaining this judgement and order. Hopefully in the next few years he'll be brought to justice. We live in a stupid world where people can get locked away for years for relatively minor offences like drug possession, however people like Wright can just continue on abusing the courts with no real consequences. It sucks that me, hodlonaut, McCormack, and various Bitcoin developers have to deal with this nonsense, but truth will prevail in the end and liars like him can never succeed in trying to stop Bitcoin's success no matter how hard they try.

I just checked @hodlonaut twitter and it looks like Faketoshi has started attacking some famous CEX as well.


https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1562364849199484928

[NotATether]

So what can we do to help?

One day I want to buy up the Bitcoin.org domain from Cobra so I can counter-sue Mr. Fake Wright to remove the injunction - exposing him for the impostor he is in the process.

Edit:

I read through the rest of the posts in this thread and observed that users who otherwise bicker with each other in other topic threads are coming together in solidarity for Hodlonaut. This is very pleasing to see, because it means everybody on this forum recognizes him for the fraud he is.

[o_e_l_e_o]

am very sure of Satoshi has his account on the forum here which has been inactive for some while, he should make publication about it and just make it active for once, he didn't need to bother with the signing of message through his address.

That's not a good statement to make for two reasons. First of all, the satoshi account on this forum is locked. No one can log in to it, even Satoshi themself, without theymos first unlocking it. Secondly, hacking in to a forum account is significantly easier than stealing a private key, and there are literally billions of online accounts which have been hacked in the past.

Signing a message from the genesis block address is necessary (but not sufficient) for Satoshi to begin to identify themself, if they so choose.

I just checked @hodlonaut twitter and it looks like Faketoshi has started attacking some famous CEX as well.

I'd mentioned before that a few exchanges host the whitepaper, and a quick test shows that those links are still available from a UK IP address. Wonder why CSW hasn't gone after them like he went after Cobra for hosting it?

It would certainly be good to see the likes of Coinbase step up here and actually support bitcoin for once, instead of always undermining it for the sake of their own profits. The more defeats CSW racks up then the better for their own legal teams, and it is good publicity for them to be seen to be supporting the community too.

[casinotester0001]

Signing a message from the genesis block address is necessary (but not sufficient) for Satoshi to begin to identify themself, if they so choose.

Or they can sign messages from the addresses of the list, then they can calculate Satoshi's block #0 private key.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5367558.0
One year ago OP posted a signature for the ECC sum of that list. Today we got the second signature.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Or they can sign messages from the addresses of the list, then they can calculate Satoshi's block #0 private key.

No, they can't.

One year ago OP posted a signature for the ECC sum of that list. Today we got the second signature.

Completely meaningless. Anyone can do this with some basic code, modest hardware, and a bit of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5368214.msg58303553#msg58303553

I want to see a signed message directly from the genesis block address or Satoshi's PGP key. Not signing from a sum of various keys, not having one person say that you definitely did it, not signing using your own laptop in a private room and not allowing anyone to independently verify the signature, or any other parlor tricks. If you have the key you can sign a message. Anything else is meaningless.

[NeuroticFish]

I find it nice and reassuring to see the support Hodlonaut has got. I've seen today on Twitter some lines on the matter, but I didn't know the background; thanks OP for this topic.

Wonder why CSW hasn't gone after them like he went after Cobra for hosting it?

If he would do this he would get - sooner or later - to fight somebody powerful enough and willing to defend himself.
If he would do this he would get even more websites hosting the whitepaper.

It would certainly be good to see the likes of Coinbase step up here and actually support bitcoin for once, instead of always undermining it for the sake of their own profits.

It would be interesting to see, but I don't have such high hopes...

Signing a message from the genesis block address is necessary (but not sufficient) for Satoshi to begin to identify themself, if they so choose.

That's correct. But we know that the chance for that to happen is slim. And this is also what Faketoshi is counting on...

Please don't pollute this thread with speculations already explained they're nonsense.

[coolcoinz]

I wish Hodlonaut all the best. It's time someone wiped the floor with CSW. What that guy Calvin has to gain from all of it? Maybe I'm wrong here, but I feel like CSW is losing money with every project. He has to fly to these court hearings, he pays lawyers, hotels, and he can't win anything. I'll consider him extremely lucky for not losing a case, like really losing, the way that he'd have to pay damages to the other party. His luck will eventually run out because that's all he's relying on. We all know he's not Satoshi but a master bullshitter.