We are all Hodlonaut

[un_rank]

What's that guy Calvin has to gain from all of it? Maybe I'm wrong here, but I feel like CSW is losing money with every project.

It looks more like an elaborate scam plot between them both, where one funds the scam and the other is the public face.
They are both heavily invested into Bitcoin SV, controlling a good amount of the total hashrate(with Calvin owning far more) last time I checked. And also, they have tried to discredit bitcoin and prove that Bitcoin SV is the actual bitcoin.

The end plot as I see, is CSW hoodwinks everyone to accept him to be Satoshi, or at least gets a legal document proving him to be so. From there, I would imagine an attempt to usurp the bitcoin network and establish Bitcoin SV, which they already have large percentage of.
This is my limited knowledge on the case, from reading some thread about it.

- Jay -

[o_e_l_e_o]

If he would do this he would get - sooner or later - to fight somebody powerful enough and willing to defend himself.

True, but he's already going after the likes of Coinbase and Kraken for "misrepresenting bitcoin", as Lucius shared above. Wonder why he's not going after them for hosting the whitepaper like he did with Cobra.

That's correct. But we know that the chance for that to happen is slim. And this is also what Faketoshi is counting on...

But it shouldn't matter. The burden on proof is on him to sign a message, not on Satoshi to sign a message calling him a fraud. If you make a claim like "I am Satoshi" and provide absolutely no hard evidence to support it, then you can and should be ridiculed for such a ridiculous claim. It's Russell's teapot. You make the claim, you prove it. The fact that he has been allowed to get this far with absolutely no evidence or proof is shocking, and partly the fault of the all the crypto "media" which keep giving him the spotlight, repeating his nonsense, and not calling out his lies for what they are.

And on top of that, even although the onus is absolutely not on anyone else to disprove his unsupported claims, we still have screeds and screeds of evidence showing his lies for what they are, including not least a signed message from 145 addresses he claimed belonged to him calling him a liar and fraud. What more can we possibly need?

They are both heavily invested into Bitcoin SV, controlling a good amount of the total hashrate(with Calvin owning far more) last time I checked.

Perhaps they are each running one of the two BSV nodes which are actually at the chain tip. You read that right; a grand total of two nodes at the chain tip: https://nitter.it/hodlonaut/status/1562500694359539712

[Mpamaegbu]

I've been wondering what Craig Wright intends to prove if he can't sign a message from the vintage wallet that holds the >1 million BTC. Craig should just go and rest his head, except he's trying to tell us he knows the whereabouts of the real Satoshi Nakamoto. My support is to Hodlonaut. I've followed some of Hodlonaut's tweets and of a truth he deserves our collective support at a time like this.

If he would do this he would get - sooner or later - to fight somebody powerful enough and willing to defend himself.

True, but he's already going after the likes of Coinbase and Kraken for "misrepresenting bitcoin", as Lucius shared above.

He's obviously on a smear campaign. I'm still surprised Binance hasn't been tagged yet. You know what they say about a drowning soul, he will cling even at a straw for survival.

[Lucius]

I'd mentioned before that a few exchanges host the whitepaper, and a quick test shows that those links are still available from a UK IP address. Wonder why CSW hasn't gone after them like he went after Cobra for hosting it?

That question can only be answered by him or maybe by those who make real moves from the shadows and use Faketoshi as their main tool in this dirty game. Obviously, the time when a lawsuit will be filed is carefully chosen, and it seems that the time of the bear market is judged to be the best because then there is the least focus on Bitcoin, unlike the bull run.

It would certainly be good to see the likes of Coinbase step up here and actually support bitcoin for once, instead of always undermining it for the sake of their own profits. The more defeats CSW racks up then the better for their own legal teams, and it is good publicity for them to be seen to be supporting the community too.

It would be really nice if they did something, although like some others, I don't really have high hopes that they as a company care too much about Bitcoin in the sense that they would defend it from Faketoshi. Of course, profit always comes first, even if it means they have to enter into a pact with the devil - but let's hope that reason will prevail this time.

I'm still surprised Binance hasn't been tagged yet. You know what they say about a drowning soul, he will cling even at a straw for survival.

As far as I saw, CZ showed support for the @Hodlonaut, and even mentioned some kind of fund that could be established for cases like this, of course under the auspices of his company.

[Bitstar_coin]

I hope during the court proceedings Craig will be able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is actually satoshi nakomoto otherwise he should be properly charged for perjury. How can he file a case under something that is completely false! this guy has no limit it seems. Hodlonaut will definitely have the full support of the bitcoin community including me, there is no room for the likes of faketoshi to soil the beautiful creation and legacy of a genius in our generation.      

[franky1]

I just checked @hodlonaut twitter and it looks like Faketoshi has started attacking some famous CEX as well.

https://twitter.com/hodlonaut/status/1562364849199484928

such easy cases to win (for DCG (btc))
these cases are about exchanges representing BTC as bitcoin where Mr BVS(CSW) says his 2017 invention is bitcoin

response should be (in laymans terms*):
btc has been around since january 2009 (insert all evidence to prove)
the real bitcoin inventor of the 2009 code release actually allowed and gave permission for all things bitcoin to be published on bitcoin.org (including whitepaper)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=437.msg3807#msg3807
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=238.msg2004#msg2004

insert evidence that the real inventor called it BTC
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28715#msg28715
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25119#msg25119

evidence that the real bitcoin inventor helped services that only used the bitcoin(BTC) network  back then and now (blockexplorer)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2162.msg28533#msg28533
(slushpool)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25119#msg25119
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25207#msg25207
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg25207#msg25207

add in all evidence of the real inventor name dropping alot of devs, and then looking at the network which all of them devs where helping to code
(insert all the other services and devs that worked on bitcoin 2009+ to show time line that BTC is bitcoin and BSV is not bitcoin)

..
and the nail in the coffin the evidence that BSV only came into existance post 2017

*obviously the DCG lawyers(of bitmex,kraken,coinbase) can snazz up the legalese wording and be more precise and concise.
and hopefully spin the court claim into a case where CSW now needs to prove that he actually was 'satoshi' via actual signature proof

[KaliLinux]

Imagine this scenario :

Satoshi Nakamoto sends some of his coins to a trust or a person that needs the help with litigation cost against the fake Satoshi. That will be the ultimate justice for a guy like Craig Wright. The person or persons that he says he is.... spending his coins to prove that he is not Satoshi Nakamoto. (If it was me.... I would even sign that address with a big FU Faketoshi message) 

What people does not understand is this.... every court case or settlement he wins, adds more money to his pockets to file more lawsuits against more people.... "Will you be next?" ....

That would have been seriously hilarious but I don't suppose this will happen, however, reading through the Reddit post, this section also caught my attention,

And of course, Wright and his conspirators are actively lobby governments, schmoozing heads of state.

"Government, the usual suspects" just my thoughts though, is the Faketoshi another form of them trying to bring Bitcoin down? plus I would have thought this is the simplest case to close in any of the courts since he has not been able to prove that he is Satoshi at any one time which I believe should be a point to prove.

[aysg76]

I find it nice and reassuring to see the support Hodlonaut has got. I've seen today on Twitter some lines on the matter, but I didn't know the background; thanks OP for this topic.

There seems to extensive support for this fight as yesterday my twitter feed was full of such tweets and there are some collection also being sold for the fund raise to help the legal filings of @hodlonaut for the case and it is really amazing to see such support from the people who understand the reality.

It would be interesting to see, but I don't have such high hopes...

They are really concerned with their own profits and fighting for the cases on them for being anti privacy exchange to pay off the damages to the users.So don't think they will ever come across such open statement to defend themselves and carry on with their personal profit growth only.

But it shouldn't matter. The burden on proof is on him to sign a message, not on Satoshi to sign a message calling him a fraud. If you make a claim like "I am Satoshi" and provide absolutely no hard evidence to support it, then you can and should be ridiculed for such a ridiculous claim. It's Russell's teapot. You make the claim, you prove it. The fact that he has been allowed to get this far with absolutely no evidence or proof is shocking, and partly the fault of the all the crypto "media" which keep giving him the spotlight, repeating his nonsense, and not calling out his lies for what they are.

That's the thing as he can't even sign a message from the address of genisis block or his PGP key which is why he tries this media shit to prove himself but in reality he has proven himself the clown he is who is making false claims only and can't prove anything and will never gain access to the funds he is looking for.The case he won is well known that how our judicial system can be financially manipulated but what after he runs out of funds and he can't prove anything? He will be behind the bars then.

He can try these shits like having paid person spreading rumour and trying to convince people in the shit they believe and we all know they are paid fake actors like him:



Source

So he is trying to prove himself what he is not and the only one basic thing he can't do already denies all the facts he made in front of people and the world will know his reality those are in his side will also move on.

[Z-tight]

it is really amazing to see such support from the people who understand the reality.

Yes it is, and it is a support that should come from anybody who is at all passionate about bitcoin, ignoring CSW made him hold a stronger stance in the media and to people who are not informed about bitcoin, and the stronger he is, the better for him to easily spreak skewed information and misguide more people, that is why Greg said:

The world has been split into two groups: Ones that don't know any better and will repeat his claims with minimal skepticism and people who know that they don't want to go anywhere near it. As a result the first group sets the public narrative.

If the bitcoin community allows CSW and the people that assist him spread his lies to gain complete hold of the public narrative and media, then he can cause great damage, not to the network, but to people who love the network, to the developers who are working to ensure the endless growth and progress of the network. He has already started, as Greg said:

His actions have contributed to at least four of some of the most prolific and longest standing developers discontinuing or substantially curtailing their involvement with Bitcoin. (and I'm a target of both of these cases.)

So the support is necessary, and hopefully it increases.

So he is trying to prove himself what he is not and the only one basic thing he can't do already denies all the facts he made in front of people and the world will know his reality those are in his side will also move on.

He is not trying to prove anything, he wants to stay relevant so his lies remain fresh and in the "front pages and clicks".

[goldkingcoiner]

So I just stumbled across this post from Greg Maxwell on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/ws8wfd/starting_september_12th_in_oslo_norway_hodlonaut/ikxqxoo/. Everyone with even a passing interest in bitcoin (which includes you, if you are reading this forum) should read this post. In fact, I would read the whole thread, because Greg has made a number of excellent posts.

Next month a pseudonymous individual by the handle of Hodlonaut will go to court in Norway to defend himself against known fraudster CSW. For anyone out of the loop, here is an update on the case: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/timeline-of-hodlonaut-craig-wright-case. The very abridged version is that Holdonaut posted on Twitter what everyone knows - that CSW is not Satoshi - and now there is a court case to determine whether these tweets are lawful and whether Hodlonaut has to pay damages to CSW.

This case doesn't just affect Hodlonaut; it affects all of us. Hodlonaut is not just defending himself; he is defending us all, as explained in Greg's post I linked to above.

So what can we do to help? Well, CSW is being bankrolled by Calvin Ayre and CoinGeek. Hodlonaut, on the other hand, is being bankrolled by nobody. Got some spare sats kicking around? I can think of no worthier cause than the defense of bitcoin itself.

https://www.defendingbtc.com/
https://nitter.it/defendingBTC

#WeAreAllHodlonaut

I can't believe that a delusional scumbag like fake-toshi (aka Craig Wright) is still among us. Such disgusting people usually run afoul of the wrong people at some point in their life and either screw themselves legally to the point of imprisonment or worse.

I think he has mental problems which is why he is so starved for attention to the point of publically making a fool out of himself.

I am definitely on the side of the poor guy he is suing. But there's no way in hell fake-toshi will win. In fact, I hope he gets what's coming to him for putting someone through such emotional distress.

[NeuroticFish]

If he would do this he would get - sooner or later - to fight somebody powerful enough and willing to defend himself.

True, but he's already going after the likes of Coinbase and Kraken for "misrepresenting bitcoin", as Lucius shared above. Wonder why he's not going after them for hosting the whitepaper like he did with Cobra.

My guess would be thar "misrepresenting bitcoin" is vague enough and can be twisted around so nobody loses, while the whitepaper case is clearly a losing scenario, since Coinbase will defend themselves if they have to.

But it shouldn't matter. The burden on proof is on him to sign a message, not on Satoshi to sign a message calling him a fraud. If you make a claim like "I am Satoshi" and provide absolutely no hard evidence to support it, then you can and should be ridiculed for such a ridiculous claim. It's Russell's teapot. You make the claim, you prove it. The fact that he has been allowed to get this far with absolutely no evidence or proof is shocking, and partly the fault of the all the crypto "media" which keep giving him the spotlight, repeating his nonsense, and not calling out his lies for what they are.

And on top of that, even although the onus is absolutely not on anyone else to disprove his unsupported claims, we still have screeds and screeds of evidence showing his lies for what they are, including not least a signed message from 145 addresses he claimed belonged to him calling him a liar and fraud. What more can we possibly need?

Unfortunately people don't read much, people rely on news for getting informed and even learn something (they believe so). Unfortunately for many the advertising is more powerful than the hard facts because they don't get to find out about the hard facts. And on top of this comes the courts in various countries giving strange verdicts (see UK/Cobra case). And the cherry on top is that people were trained by the media to treat bitcoin and bitcoiners as scammers, hence the hard facts, even if it's math, get ignored.

They are both heavily invested into Bitcoin SV

Of course that one of their goals is to make people believe their (probably centralized) shitcoin deserves to get valued as highly as Bitcoin is. That would make them rich forever.

[rby]

An interesting read from op.
What thing about Bitcoin is that many of us see it as no man's business. If we can make a living or get rich by it we move one and don't mind much about it. That is why Bitcoin is always being bashed like an orphan. He is always guilty of all crimes since it has no single face of its own. If everyone could stand up and speak up, maybe we could tell all the scammers, imposters and spreaders of lie against Bitcoin to shut up in courts. If we do it for sometimes, everyone might have to behave well towards Bitcoin.

[dezoel]

--snip

I mean that type of messages are good enough to know that he is not. But why do we assume that we expect him to actually prove it? Or even have the fact that he doesn't even believe in it himself? Or doesn't want to convince you neither. The point is that we are talking about him don't we? I mean nobody talks about me, wish the world did talk about me as much as they did about him, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't.

So all in all, we are talking about something that shouldn't really be worrying us because his entire plan is to make sure that we are talking about him and that is why he is achieving what he really wants in the long run.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I've been wondering what Craig Wright intends to prove

He can't prove anything. His goal is to harass.

if he can't sign a message from the vintage wallet that holds the >1 million BTC.

There is no wallet which holds >1 million BTC. There are thousands of early coinbase addresses all holding 50 BTC. We do not know for sure which belong to Satoshi and which do not, as CSW discovered himself when he claimed that he owned a bunch of them which he thought were linked to Satoshi and therefore had a very low chance of being proved wrong, and the real owner immediately signed a message from them calling him a fraud.

As far as I saw, CZ showed support for the @Hodlonaut, and even mentioned some kind of fund that could be established for cases like this, of course under the auspices of his company.

Yeah, I saw McCormack retweeting a tweet from CZ back in 2019 talking about helping with legal fees: https://nitter.it/PeterMcCormack/status/1562362012017074176
I've not seen CZ mention Hodlonaut recently or donate anything though. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Speaking of, remember back in January when Jack Dorsey said he was setting up a fund for this reason too: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019741.html
Any word from him about a donation to Hodlonaut?

[Lucius]

I've not seen CZ mention Hodlonaut recently or donate anything though. Correct me if I'm wrong?

I think you're right, someone just posted that very old tweet as one of the comments on one of the recent hodlonaut tweets, apparently I missed the date. I looked at CZ's twitter and there are no posts in the last 10-15 days regarding the specific case, although his opinion about Faketosh was very clear in 2019, and I don't believe it has changed until today.

https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1116563034476957699

Speaking of, remember back in January when Jack Dorsey said he was setting up a fund for this reason too: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2022-January/019741.html
Any word from him about a donation to Hodlonaut?

All I saw was that Dorsey's last tweet was exactly a retweet from hodlonaut asking for help, so we can say that he gave him public support today as well as 3 years ago. We can only guess where the biggest donation came from, and Dorsey is certainly one of the potential candidates who could have sent it.

https://twitter.com/jack

[o_e_l_e_o]

I looked at CZ's twitter and there are no posts in the last 10-15 days regarding the specific case

As usual from the big exchanges - all talk, no action, and nothing which might mean they have to spend some of their precious profits. Very disappointing all round.

My guess would be thar "misrepresenting bitcoin" is vague enough and can be twisted around so nobody loses, while the whitepaper case is clearly a losing scenario, since Coinbase will defend themselves if they have to.

I really don't think they would, in terms of the whitepaper case. When faced with the choice of paying expensive legal fees versus simply taking down the .pdf of the whitepaper they host, I would fully expect them to choose the latter without any fight whatsoever. Coinbase supported every major attack on bitcoin, from Bitcoin XT to Bitcoin Unlimited to Segwit2x. They won't spend money to defend bitcoin - they will only spend money to defend themselves and their own profits.

[franky1]

Coinbase supported every major attack on bitcoin, from Bitcoin XT to Bitcoin Unlimited to Segwit2x. They won't spend money to defend bitcoin - they will only spend money to defend themselves and their own profits.

you do know that the DCG is all of these entities
coinbase, LN, blockstream(core, UASF), bloq(XT, segwit 2x), barry silberts NYA, plus lots more centralised services like chain analysis

which side are you on again?
are you pro
core/LN/blockstrema(segwit,UASF)

or are you anti
coinbase, chain analysisblocq(xt segwit2x)

because they are all funded by the same team

yes DCG dont really want to fund courtcases defending against the annoying social drama SLAPP suits of CSW
they dont want their business reputation publicised into silly court drama that has no positive benefit on their business

heck im even starting to wonder about the recent devs migrating out of blockstream in recent years and then once released suddenly on their own having to fight CSW claims. where it requires donations to cover the costs.

i too think coinbase, circle, blockchain.info, ftx, etc etc would rather not display the white paper. because there is no big fee/commission/profit in displaying it.

but as stated in a previous post i made. it would be an easy case to win to actually defend that the real inventor was calling btc bitcoin and was using bitcoin.org to supply the white paper and was linking btc to many services and exchanges and pools as bitcoin. .. thus defeating CSw arguments.

but it seems many websites/services  are shying away from that fight. where as individuals are left fighting it

[o_e_l_e_o]

you do know that the DCG is all of these entities

There is a difference between owning a company and investing in a company. DCG invest in dozens of bitcoin related companies. They also invested in Ripple and ZCash. That doesn't mean that Ripple "is" DCG, nor does it mean that Blockstream "is" DCG.

Regardless, such discussion is off topic here. If you want to discuss this, please take it somewhere else or open a new thread. I'd like to keep this thread about Hodlonaut.

but it seems many websites/services  are shying away from that fight. where as individuals are left fighting it

I agree with this, which is highly disappointing as I said above. The exchanges which made their millions billions because of bitcoin, which profited handsomely from Satoshi's creation and all the work of all the devs who have come since, won't put up a fight or even donate some money to those who are, and are quite happy to let CSW run rampant with his frivolous lawsuits. Meanwhile the individuals with nothing to personally gain but everything to lose are the ones left fighting CSW, with support from the community, while these exchanges continue to turn a blind eye.

I actually want CSW to start suing some big exchanges and force them to get involved, rather than letting other people fight their fights for them.

[franky1]

the reason i brought up the DCG group. is because although you want to separate them and NOT think of them as a big entity that could devastate CSW
.. you should think of them as a big entity that could devastate CSW

dont play coy defending DCG by saying its ok they are this and that, pretending they are not a controlling power house. then somehow end your post that you wish they were was some mystical other big fighter against CSW..
how about start by wanting THEM(DCG) to be a big entity.

plead your case for how exchanges and services should take up the fight. use your buddy echo chamber at its best to echo that message to your idol in many repeated messages over months poking the single entity into reacting.. (the same game you try playing against me).. take turns poking DCG.

if one fails.. jsut lie the games you play here, let the next buddy just happen to turn up to regurgitate the same narrative as if its a new topic. and poke again., repeat until bite and then push more.... you know the trick. you played it enough on the forum..

actually be more involved in your loyalty games and use them to your favour of contacting your idols and using your years of loyal outreach games to actually get your buddies to come together to push your idols

dont end your post with a wish. about hoping to find some other hero entity fly in to help the fight

..
businesses can claim that his actions are causing business losses and reputation losses because he is claiming that they are selling misrepresented product, or that [insert any claim]
and start slapping CSW before CSW slapps them

..
waiting for CSW to file claims against a company. is not helping.. and also being on a defence of a CSW claim where by not responding=instant win for CSW. is not good. and also defending whatever claim CSW makes and then alters in later responses is a never ending game in CSW favour..
being on the defence is not a good first foot to be on..

however if DCG got its many dozens of businesses to file many dozens of claims against CSW, then its then CSW that has to do the running around

[NeuroticFish]

which side are you on again?
are you pro
core/LN/blockstrema(segwit,UASF)

or are you anti
coinbase, chain analysisblocq(xt segwit2x)

because they are all funded by the same team

In all the countries you'll find businessmen funding politicians from all the parties (and maybe all the parties too). This ensures them a spot on the winning side, no matters who wins, but doesn't mean they believe in all of those (it would be absurd). They may not even care, as long as it's a good business and the invested money gets returned plus some extra (in a way or another).

I think that it may also be the case here, hence bringing DCG into discussion may not be actually relevant.

however if DCG got its many dozens of businesses to file many dozens of claims against CSW, then its then CSW that has to do the running around

Would this be a good business for them? Would it pay off?