Craig "Faketoshi" Wright saga continues. His team turns against him.

[pawel7777]

No idea if anyone is still interested in the adventures of our good friend, Dr Craig Wright, who, for those who got into Bitcoin recently, claims to be the real Satoshi Nakamoto, but I'm glad to hear that his biggest backer, Calvin Ayre, finally lost a fate and is turning his back on him.
Hopefully this will indicate the end of Wright's strange endeavors. Many found him a good laughing stock, but he did cause a lot of troubles to many individuals, including some Bitcoin developers, with his nonsensical lawsuits.

More on the story:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/10/02/shocking-leak-blows-up-mystery-of-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto/

https://twitter.com/agerhanssen/status/1708628458404708850

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[dunfida]

Do still the community remind of him? I guess not anymore. We dont care and we do know its shit reputation.
Its not shocking that people around him would really turned their backs and they wont really be continuing on playing blind and believing that he's the real Satoshi.

[Odohu]

In my opinion, the court cases, arguments and all the unnecessary and boring discussions are not necessarily. Satoshi have Bitcoin wallets and account in this forum. If Craig claimes to be Satoshi, he should login his account in this forum and make a post to convince the Bitcoin community. On the other hand, let him make a transaction from Satoshi's wallet. If he fails to do any of the above, I will gladly join the group that see him as a laughing stock.

[DooMAD]

The entire "team" (read: crime syndicate) are all too far beyond redemption whether they stop supporting Faketoshi or not.  What do they think they're going to do after they abandon him?  None of them will ever be seen as reputable again.  They can't regain credibility by admitting that they've been lying for all these years whilst funding Wright's war on this community.  They will always be the crooked stooges that propped up the charlatan.

It will be nice to see the pantomime finally come to an end, but if any of these morally-bankrupt vultures think they're going to attempt some manner of redemption arc because they're now trying to distance themselves from the sleaze, they can think again.  They're forever tarnished by this.  The fact that they're going to constantly divide into ever smaller schisms doesn't detract from the stench.  Don't let them forget it.

[taufik123]

The entire "team" (read: crime syndicate) all too far beyond redemption whether they stop supporting Faketoshi or not.  What do they think they're going to do after they abandon him?  None of them will ever be seen as reputable again.  They can't regain credibility by admitting that they've been lying for all these years whilst funding Wright's war on this community.  They will always be the crooked stooges that propped up the charlatan.

It will be nice to see the pantomime finally come to an end, but if any of these morally-bankrupt vultures think they're going to attempt some manner of redemption arc because they're now trying to distance themselves from the sleaze, they can think again.  They're forever tarnished by this.  The fact that they're going to constantly divide into ever smaller schisms doesn't detract from the stench.  Don't let them forget it.

Yes, they will eventually continue to be tagged as minions who continue to support Craig's crazy claims which also affects his credibility.
But when they turn against their boss, it even looks ridiculous.

Has Craig's superhero power perished so much that the team that continued to support him is now turning against him?
These people may also be under pressure after all the drama, but no one believes them.

But it's good news when the team turns against Craig and realizes that it was a mistake.
A penance might clear their names, but not completely as the past records will remain and can never be erased.

[franky1]

ayres funding was on the bases of him getting ROI from court cases they win. where he can add  costs the loser has to pay.. however CSW has lost a few cases recently and ayres has only had returns of $1..

ayres wants to de-fund the cases but still wants to kiss CSW ass because CSW also promised ayres returns on media revenue from selling his autobiography and movie rights of the drama, so ayres has not cut ties with CSW

the nchain CEO was just a name plate on a door and only signed on 10 months ago, so although he didnt do due diligence before signing on as a paper CEO he finally looked behind the door and seen the farce

[The Long Run]

No idea if anyone is still interested in the adventures of our good friend, Dr Craig Wright, who, for those who got into Bitcoin recently, claims to be the real Satoshi Nakamoto, but I'm glad to hear that his biggest backer, Calvin Ayre, finally lost a fate and is turning his back on him.
Hopefully this will indicate the end of Wright's strange endeavors. Many found him a good laughing stock, but he did cause a lot of troubles to many individuals, including some Bitcoin developers, with his nonsensical lawsuits.

More on the story:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/10/02/shocking-leak-blows-up-mystery-of-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto/

https://twitter.com/agerhanssen/status/1708628458404708850

"...our good friend, Dr Craig Wright." When I saw him discussed on Reddit it was always just "Craig Wright", is he a real Dr, or is that fake too?

[OcTradism]

We know Craig Wright is a Faketoshi, not Satoshi Nakamoto. It's clearly and has been proven by many proofs and people in Bitcoin community.

Is it enough to add Craig Wright to your ignore list?

I did it and I don't waste my time to read drama about Craig Wright because a Faketoshi can not become Satoshi Nakamoto, by anyway and at any time in future.

I gathered every Satoshi Nakamoto thread. Another version of that topic, to something like "I gathered every Faketoshi Craig Wright thread." would be interesting and save time of newbies to understand about that Faketoshi.

[adaseb]

Wasn’t he the cause of the crash of Nov 2018. I remember there was heated debate between BSV and BCH and Fake satoshi was saying he is going to start dumping 1 million of his BTC and cause a crash.

And for some reason his threats actually came true and bitcoin lost almost half its value very quickly. Wasn’t until April 2019 before it finally closed above $6K again.

But he has done nothing but negative for bitcoin.

[franky1]

Wasn’t he the cause of the crash of Nov 2018. I remember there was heated debate between BSV and BCH and Fake satoshi was saying he is going to start dumping 1 million of his BTC and cause a crash.

no his drama was not the cause
just like each cycle there is a halving. and then a year later a ATH and then the price corrects back down
2016 halving 2017 ATH 2018 correction period. then 2019 slow rise
much the same as
2020 halving 2021 ATH 2022 correction period. then 2023 slow rise

so expect
2024 halving 2025 ATH 2026 correction period. then 2027 slow rise

[o_e_l_e_o]

That email from Ayre that CAH has leaked is pretty damning. Especially since Ayre now seems to have confirmed that it is indeed real: https://nitter.cz/CalvinAyre/status/1708715551999074457#m

Another interesting tweet: https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1708995452551446751#m. Wonder how CSW will continue to fund all his sham trials now that Ayre has pulled all his funding?

Let's hope this really is the beginning of the end for this serial fraudster.

When I saw him discussed on Reddit it was always just "Craig Wright", is he a real Dr, or is that fake too?

He has a doctorate, but given the whole thing is plagiarized, he shouldn't be called doctor: https://medium.com/@paintedfrog/craig-wright-plagiarized-significant-portions-of-his-phd-thesis-and-tried-to-hide-it-80cd8f01459

[NotATether]

More on the story:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/10/02/shocking-leak-blows-up-mystery-of-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto/

Of course Forbes would write trashy articles like this that still talk in terms of "Satoshi Nakamoto", because it smells like a user-submitted piece.

That email from Ayre that CAH has leaked is pretty damning. Especially since Ayre now seems to have confirmed that it is indeed real: https://nitter.cz/CalvinAyre/status/1708715551999074457#m

Another interesting tweet: https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1708995452551446751#m. Wonder how CSW will continue to fund all his sham trials now that Ayre has pulled all his funding?

Let's hope this really is the beginning of the end for this serial fraudster.

When I saw him discussed on Reddit it was always just "Craig Wright", is he a real Dr, or is that fake too?

He has a doctorate, but given the whole thing is plagiarized, he shouldn't be called doctor: https://medium.com/@paintedfrog/craig-wright-plagiarized-significant-portions-of-his-phd-thesis-and-tried-to-hide-it-80cd8f01459

Next up is to challenge the UK court ruling in an appeal, though I don't think that can happen as long as Cobra owns the website because he does not want to reveal his identity for CSW to abuse.

[DapanasFruit]

I am not anymore looking at anything related to Craig Wright as really serious and rightly so he has no more clout and influence in the cryptocurrency industry - just like before. Right now, he is definitely a laughing stock, a "moron" with all the cases he filed just to prove that he is the real Satoshi. Anyway, let's take any news about him as just entertainment and on this aspect I think he can be a successful - like a comedian type. Craig Wright is 100% Wrong.

[Beerwizzard]

More on the story:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/10/02/shocking-leak-blows-up-mystery-of-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto/

Of course Forbes would write trashy articles like this that still talk in terms of "Satoshi Nakamoto", because it smells like a user-submitted piece.

Indeed. On the website it is said that the article was provided by the contributor and this is his own opinion.
I clearly remember that some years ago here on BTT Services section people offered paid Forbes article writing. Now the situation is different, but it seems like such service is still available for the ones who have enough money or influence.

[pawel7777]

"...our good friend, Dr Craig Wright." When I saw him discussed on Reddit it was always just "Craig Wright", is he a real Dr, or is that fake too?

Good question. I remember at the beginning there was a lot of media coverage labeling him as Doctor, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that turned out a lie too, or even if the title is real, he probably cheated to earn it.

I did it and I don't waste my time to read drama about Craig Wright because a Faketoshi can not become Satoshi Nakamoto, by anyway and at any time in future.

Unfortunately not all in the Bitcoin community could afford to ignore him. He did make a lot of legal threats and started quite a few lawsuits. I think Greg Maxwell mentioned how much of annoyance it could cause to affected Bitcoin developers, so good to see that (hopefully) he would run out of financial support to carry on.

[DaveF]

Does this really surprise anyone. The grift has run it's course, there is not a lot of new money coming in time to start a new altcoin / shitcoin / scamcoin whatever.
Coming soon, SatoshisNewVision coin. With guaranteed super duper stuff. Just send money now, we will give you something later.

Replace BSV with DITC

Coming just after Dave's Itchy Testicle Coin. Send money now and get your coins.
Dave scratces the itch.
Oops. No more itchy testicle coins to be had. So sorry, but we will keep your money.

-Dave

[franky1]

if CSW is truly no longer having a sugar daddy funding his lawsuits.. maybe now is the time that our general community now sue CSW for a multitude of reasons.

the other part about the ayres defunding is CSW lawsuits involved CSW's time, travel and accommodation expenses being funded by ayres win or lose upfront. so if CSW cant sue people and claim expenses upfront(another reason CSW was soo slapp happy), im sure CSW is gonna take a hit on his income

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Lol, I remember that whole thing and was kinda-sorta paying attention to it when it was happening, and then suddenly it seemed like nobody was talking about it anymore--so it just dropped right off my radar.  Or maybe I just had this section on ignore for too long and missed the chatter.

I'm glad to hear that his biggest backer, Calvin Ayre, finally lost a fate and is turning his back on him.

From what I saw, nobody really believed CW is Satoshi and just saw all of his claims and behavior as a spectacle.  If he lost a supporter, perhaps that supporter is starting to think rationally.  Good job, Calvin!

[avikz]

Lol! Is he still fighting to get recognised as original Satoshi Nakamoto? I thought he has gone back to Australia to start farming. His activities used to bring us comic reliefs. It was hilarious to see his attention seeking behaviour.

It's a good thing that this joker has lost a supporter. It's probably because CW promised them a good amount of money if he was able to establish himself as Satoshi Nakamoto in front of the world. But now his team is realising the reality.

[pooya87]

Malicious people usually don't tend to work with anybody, even equally malicious people like them. Specially when their "cooperation" was based on pure profit, their interests and goals align for a short time but it is bound to fall apart as they turn on each other.

[Kakmakr]

In my opinion, the court cases, arguments and all the unnecessary and boring discussions are not necessarily. Satoshi have Bitcoin wallets and account in this forum. If Craig claimes to be Satoshi, he should login his account in this forum and make a post to convince the Bitcoin community. On the other hand, let him make a transaction from Satoshi's wallet. If he fails to do any of the above, I will gladly join the group that see him as a laughing stock.

Nope, simply signing into his forum account is not enough verification that he is the real Satoshi Nakamoto. I think Satoshi's account was accessed before, so it is compromised already. (Hackers might also find ways to access his account)

The person or group who can sign an address that was known to be one of Satoshi's early addresses, will have the key to the title of being the real Satoshi... not some fake attempt that were exposed by experts, like CW has done in the past. 

[cryptoaddictchie]

This is funny. I am browsing on tiktok and saw a post about a certain content regarding the real Satoshi and the poser said it was literally Craig Wright due to some of these bullshit evidence he is seeing. Sincr its social media I am indeed explained to him about forum and Satoshi, but guess what? He didnt believed me and more favor for Craig as Satoshi, so I stopped the arguement cause I know it will be nonstop and not worth my time.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Good question. I remember at the beginning there was a lot of media coverage labeling him as Doctor, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if that turned out a lie too, or even if the title is real, he probably cheated to earn it.

As I mentioned above, his doctoral thesis was mostly plagiarized: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5468951.msg62938501#msg62938501

Nope, simply signing into his forum account is not enough verification that he is the real Satoshi Nakamoto. I think Satoshi's account was accessed before, so it is compromised already. (Hackers might also find ways to access his account)

The account is locked, so no one can log in to it unless theymos manually unlocks it (or they hack the forum).

The person or group who can sign an address that was known to be one of Satoshi's early addresses, will have the key to the title of being the real Satoshi...

Disagree. Signing a message from an early Satoshi-linked private key is necessary but not sufficient to prove you are Satoshi. That is to say, anyone who can't sign a message (such as CSW) can be ignored, but even if someone can sign a message it does not prove they are Satoshi. Signing a message would be enough to start a wider discussion and examination of the individual in question to see if they have the same knowledge, ability, ethics, etc., as Satoshi did (which CSW has none of).

Even if CSW managed to sign a message today, I still wouldn't think he is Satoshi, given the years of proven lies, forgeries, fraud, basic technical incompetence, contradictions, and outright stupidity. It would be far more likely he had somehow stumbled upon or stolen a private key.

[franky1]

Malicious people usually don't tend to work with anybody, even equally malicious people like them. Specially when their "cooperation" was based on pure profit, their interests and goals align for a short time but it is bound to fall apart as they turn on each other.

you would be surprised, there are many examples of corrupt people that find and then befriend each other to then reinforce their immoral practices and use each other to hold each other up and continue their silly crap. the only time they tend to turn on each other is when they get caught and its time to protect themselves. just look at the FTX saga when right up until bankruptcy day scammers worked together and then within days of being caught scamming they turn on each other to make immunity deals

when you start seeing people move away, turn on each other.. the jig is up and trouble is coming for them

[Woodie]

Finally people are seeing the bS coming from these Fakes!!
Btw, such people are toxic characters for the crypto market and these shouldn't be entertained anywhere near any media house for gear of spreading lies!! Am saying this because he can easily bluff about dumping coins to cause a crash, or throw something in the public like I will pull the plug on Bitcoin and markets will go down because not everyone is privileged with information on how BTC works and people are so naive to believe such a bluff.  Craig your days of milk and honey are over...

[panganib999]

Thing is that no amount of convincing at this point will make the whole bitcoin community think that Craig Wright is Satoshi Nakamoto. And it's quite easy too. It's not like they had to prove the Riemann Hypothesis to confirm they are Satoshi Nakamoto. All they need to do is login to this forum using Satoshi's account, make a post confirming that they are who they claim to be, and from there we'd relinquish all doubts and skepticisms about Satoshi's identity. It's super easy and they still couldn't do it for some reason.

The real Satoshi has made a point of never revealing who he is, or ever touching bitcoin after his work is done. Let's just be thankful to him and let this thing die already. it's a curious and interesting topic but it's come to a point where people are waiting so much time and money finding who Satoshi Nakamoto.

[pooya87]

Malicious people usually don't tend to work with anybody, even equally malicious people like them. Specially when their "cooperation" was based on pure profit, their interests and goals align for a short time but it is bound to fall apart as they turn on each other.

you would be surprised, there are many examples of corrupt people that find and then befriend each other to then reinforce their immoral practices and use each other to hold each other up and continue their silly crap. the only time they tend to turn on each other is when they get caught and its time to protect themselves. just look at the FTX saga when right up until bankruptcy day scammers worked together and then within days of being caught scamming they turn on each other to make immunity deals

when you start seeing people move away, turn on each other.. the jig is up and trouble is coming for them

I disagree with saying "it only falls apart when they get caught". Getting caught is like the catalyst that pushes them over to show their true faces. After all we aren't talking about normal people; being malicious, betraying other people, etc. are like the personality traits of the malicious scumbags. They are guaranteed to turn on each other even without being caught. After all Wright is not yet caught or punished that the "honeymoon phase" with his "buddies" is ending!

[Wind_FURY]

Does this really surprise anyone. The grift has run it's course, there is not a lot of new money coming in

Plus isn't Calvin Ayre the owner of the internet casino Bodog, and the company called Ayre Group? He probably invested large amounts of money in Craig Wright's fraudulent activites and scams, especially the fork of the shitcoin BCash called BCash SV, AND LOST a part of that investment. How can they be so stupid if it's true. Play stupid games, win stupid prices.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nassim Taleb will be the next rat that will leave Ship Faketoshi.

time to start a new altcoin / shitcoin / scamcoin whatever.
Coming soon, SatoshisNewVision coin. With guaranteed super duper stuff. Just send money now, we will give you something later.

Replace BSV with DITC

Coming just after Dave's Itchy Testicle Coin. Send money now and get your coins.
Dave scratces the itch.
Oops. No more itchy testicle coins to be had. So sorry, but we will keep your money.

-Dave

Craig Wright made BCash BSV HODLers/community look so stupid, that they won't follow him to his next shitcoin. They're might just be pretending to support that shitcoin to wait for the next bull cycle's surge, THEN DUMP.

[cheezcarls]

I think he is also the chief scientist of NChain under BSV, which they’ve inked a deal with the government of Bataan last time.

Critics say that the government did not do a background check on Craig Wright first before sealing their own partnership. I just don’t know what the govermnent of Bataan is thinking right now after they knew these allegations whether they stand with him or not.

This is really crazy right now especially these latest turn of events.

[DooMAD]

This is really crazy right now especially these latest turn of events.

It's really not.  It was only a matter of time before Wright ran out of excuses for why his benefactors aren't getting their promised returns.  Even malicious actors like Ayre and Co aren't immune to the 'sunk cost fallacy'.

It's beginning to dawn on them that they've been backing the wrong scammer.  Wright is good at making a nuisance and causing headaches for innocent users and devs, but he clearly isn't very effective at generating money for his supporters.

[DaveF]

Not going to post links but if you take a look at the various other social media places that BSV was pumped and discussed the meltdown people are having is somewhat amusing.

I don't think this is the end of the entire BSV / CSW show but I think this is the final few chapters. I'm sure more lawsuits will start flying and other things will be said and other documents will be faked.

But for now it's a fun show to watch.

-Dave

[franky1]

I don't think this is the end of the entire BSV / CSW show but I think this is the final few chapters. I'm sure more lawsuits will start flying and other things will be said and other documents will be faked.

the way i see it:
if ayres is truly defunding CSW lawsuits then they will dry up. but there will still be other social media drama chapters to fill his biography where he will re-do his media promotion ploy he done 8 years ago. by sending stories to news media trying to whistle blow himself and pretend someone else is trying to out him. he will do a few more speaking tour paid conferences/interviews. and then try to sell his story to production/publishing companies

i dont think there are many more people wiling to be his sugar daddy, so it will be time he gets a real job when his book/movie deals fail

[o_e_l_e_o]

Looks like CSW is doubling down with his usual bullshit:
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710026384326734324#m
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710031786145669512#m

What a coincidence he just so happened to find some more drives filled with proof he is Satoshi! Half of the proof is clearly forgeries and the other half is encrypted, but never mind that! No doubt the forgeries are because he is so smart he was deliberately making them seem fake or something and the password for the encrypted files is in a trust and he'll gain access to it in 10 years' time.

However, looks like CSW has threatened Ayre with something, and so Ayre is maybe still funding him for now?
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710035713394147582#m

[DooMAD]

Looks like CSW is doubling down with his usual bullshit:
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710026384326734324#m
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710031786145669512#m

What a coincidence he just so happened to find some more drives filled with proof he is Satoshi! Half of the proof is clearly forgeries and the other half is encrypted, but never mind that!

If you're going to lie, go big or go home, heh.  Wright's thought process goes:

"I need to convince someone I have a decent amount of evidence to support my lie.  What would be a sensible amount?  4 million pages?  Yeah, that sounds reasonable".   What in the actual fuck is going on in that man's head? 

I find the issue with the phrase "doubling down" is, if you do it repeatedly, the context and level of severity is lost.  At this point, Faketoshi is order-of-magnitude-ing down.  How anyone could still buy this farce is beyond my comprehension.

[franky1]

after seeing a few tweets it seems Christen Ager-Hanssen is just publicising his exit just to promote a book he wrote before he left..
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710215569226576164#m
maybe it is wrote in the style of a whistleblower report to board members, but we all know the content is the standard scam drama we all known for years
funny part is i bet all board members already knew of CSW scams but were promised riches if they suck up and play along
what would be revealing is now stuff from insiders is becoming public. if the others do not react and distance themselves they become wilful accomplices if they stick with CSW's charade

[pawel7777]

What a coincidence he just so happened to find some more drives filled with proof he is Satoshi! Half of the proof is clearly forgeries and the other half is encrypted, but never mind that! No doubt the forgeries are because he is so smart he was deliberately making them seem fake or something and the password for the encrypted files is in a trust and he'll gain access to it in 10 years' time.

This is getting so ridiculous I'm starting to think he might have some sort of syndrome. I'm not sure if there's a clinical term for this, but I think we've all encountered a type of people that would just make up incredible stories for no good reason. Maybe they lied a lot as children and never got caught so their brains got wired that way.
I could feel sorry for him if not for all the lawsuits and all. I feel sorry for his kids though, unless it's a lie too.

[apogio]

Disagree. Signing a message from an early Satoshi-linked private key is necessary but not sufficient to prove you are Satoshi. That is to say, anyone who can't sign a message (such as CSW) can be ignored, but even if someone can sign a message it does not prove they are Satoshi. Signing a message would be enough to start a wider discussion and examination of the individual in question to see if they have the same knowledge, ability, ethics, etc., as Satoshi did (which CSW has none of).

Even if CSW managed to sign a message today, I still wouldn't think he is Satoshi, given the years of proven lies, forgeries, fraud, basic technical incompetence, contradictions, and outright stupidity. It would be far more likely he had somehow stumbled upon or stolen a private key.

Even though I believe he is not Satoshi, how would it be possible to sign a message without being satoshi?

The only way I can think is that he "somehow" obtained the private key.

Is there anything I am missing here?

[o_e_l_e_o]

"I need to convince someone I have a decent amount of evidence to support my lie.  What would be a sensible amount?  4 million pages?  Yeah, that sounds reasonable".   What in the actual fuck is going on in that man's head? 

It's wild. What exactly is he proposing? That he generated 1,000 pages of text/code related to bitcoin every day for 10 years?

Was this at the same time of his claims that he was enrolled in 19 universities simultaneously, writing 3 university papers in a single night, sleeping for 4 hours a night, and listening to audio books at triple speed while asleep: https://nitter.cz/CalvinAyre/status/1460349867340050436

Anything but signing a message, eh?

The only way I can think is that he "somehow" obtained the private key.

Is there anything I am missing here?

You're not missing anything, and that's my point.

Should CSW finally produce a signed message from the genesis block public key, then there is one of three possibilities - he has broken the ECDLP, he is Satoshi, or he has stumbled across or stolen one of Satoshi's key. Of those three possibilities, the first is essentially impossible, the second is only marginally more likely than the first, and the last is exponentially more likely than the other two.

[apogio]

You're not missing anything, and that's my point.

Should CSW finally produce a signed message from the genesis block public key, then there is one of three possibilities - he has broken the ECDLP, he is Satoshi, or he has stumbled across or stolen one of Satoshi's key. Of those three possibilities, the first is essentially impossible, the second is only marginally more likely than the first, and the last is exponentially more likely than the other two.

The question is, if he really was satoshi, why would he create such a bad image around him. I mean why make everyone believe he is a scammer?

And I personally believe that CSW is a complete fraud. The real satoshi never seeked recognition. He didn't want to be known. And he was hiding in an astonishing way, that requires lots of experience in Privacy and Cryptography. Someone who used cryptography to hide that well, how can he be unable to use cryptography to re-appear?

[pooya87]

The question is, if he really was satoshi, why would he create such a bad image around him. I mean why make everyone believe he is a scammer?
And I personally believe that CSW is a complete fraud. The real satoshi never seeked recognition.

Exactly, also it is not just about seeking recognition. Even if Satoshi were to reveal his true identity he would never do it like this. For example why would Satoshi even sue bitcoin.org owner for hosting the whitepaper that he released under MIT license for free and in public?! The scammer has poked, harassed and sued a lot of people involved in bitcoin like bitcoin core developers too. That's not something the real Satoshi would do. Heck that's not even something a normal person would do

[apogio]

Exactly, also it is not just about seeking recognition. Even if Satoshi were to reveal his true identity he would never do it like this. For example why would Satoshi even sue bitcoin.org owner for hosting the whitepaper that he released under MIT license for free and in public?! The scammer has poked, harassed and sued a lot of people involved in bitcoin like bitcoin core developers too. That's not something the real Satoshi would do. Heck that's not even something a normal person would do

Hahah now that you mention it, I sincerely find it difficult to believe that people believe he is satoshi. I am convinced that we will never know who satoshi was. I believe it was a pseudocharacter created by a bunch of cypherpunks that were dedicated in developing bitcoin and had arranged in advance that they will never say it. In fact, there is no need to know.

A technical question I always had was whether it would be possible (if satoshi was a group of people) that they all need to sign. And it is not only one person who need to sign to prove he is satoshi.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The question is, if he really was satoshi, why would he create such a bad image around him. I mean why make everyone believe he is a scammer?

As pooya says, everything CSW has ever said or done is at complete odds with the knowledge and ethos that Satoshi expressed via their emails, mailing list posts, and forum posts.

Here's a great example of some of CSW's stupidest moments, where he has outright contradicted things Satoshi has written: https://nitter.cz/Arthur_van_Pelt/status/1587117094130356232

A technical question I always had was whether it would be possible (if satoshi was a group of people) that they all need to sign. And it is not only one person who need to sign to prove he is satoshi.

The coinbase transaction of the genesis block and all Satoshi linked blocks pay to a single public key, so whoever owns that private key would be able to sign a message as "Satoshi". So unless a group of people had set up a system where they each hold a set of partial private keys which need to be combined in a trustless manner to form the final private key (which I think is highly unlikely), then only a single person is needed to sign.

[OgNasty]

The only thing I don’t really understand about this development is why now? Everyone has been aware of the fake evidence used by Craig Wright for years now. Literally everyone has known he was a fraud. So why now is everyone positioning themselves against him. Were they just pretending to go along with the scam to get a paycheck?

[Hamza2424]

I thought this might be over, but it seems not. These cases will continue until the community stops paying attention to these idiots. After exposing their leader, I don't think the community cares about them anymore. They were liars, and they admitted it, but they're still liars.

Simply put, why did Satoshi choose privacy if he wanted to make a comeback later? These fake Satoshis don't even have common sense. I would advise CSW to go for a rest, it really not his ground, can he spell Bitcoin  .

[pawel7777]

The only thing I don’t really understand about this development is why now? Everyone has been aware of the fake evidence used by Craig Wright for years now. Literally everyone has known he was a fraud. So why now is everyone positioning themselves against him. Were they just pretending to go along with the scam to get a paycheck?

It's not like "everyone" turned against him recently, most have done it long time ago, and the recent events is just his scammy group falling apart.

I thought this might be over, but it seems not. These cases will continue until the community stops paying attention to these idiots.

Not everything revolves about public image and not all problems go away if you just stop paying attention. There were a lot of people that he dragged through courts (or threaten to) and that's not a kind of problem you can just ignore when that happens to you.

[Hamza2424]

Not everything revolves about public image and not all problems go away if you just stop paying attention. There were a lot of people that he dragged through courts (or threaten to) and that's not a kind of problem you can just ignore when that happens to you.

Hmm, yes dear I'm a little bit aware of what he did as NotATether created a topic a couple of days ago, Bitcoin.org indefinitely forbidden from serving whitepaper and client to UK At that time I did a background search on him because I've heard of his name a couple of times in the ruling. After that, I came to know how freaking stupid he is and what the shit he's bringing constantly.

Hmm, well for his karma I think, he'll definitely pay for the credibility already paying but seems like it has not affected him sooner or later he'll find himself in a quagmire. What he's expecting (a clean paycheck) defiantly impossible.

[serveria.com]

No idea if anyone is still interested in the adventures of our good friend, Dr Craig Wright, who, for those who got into Bitcoin recently, claims to be the real Satoshi Nakamoto, but I'm glad to hear that his biggest backer, Calvin Ayre, finally lost a fate and is turning his back on him.
Hopefully this will indicate the end of Wright's strange endeavors. Many found him a good laughing stock, but he did cause a lot of troubles to many individuals, including some Bitcoin developers, with his nonsensical lawsuits.

More on the story:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/10/02/shocking-leak-blows-up-mystery-of-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto/

https://twitter.com/agerhanssen/status/1708628458404708850

Wasn't Calvin Ayre one of the persons behind BSV? In all this story I only regret I can't find such a gullible billionaire who would sponsor me! I'd tell him that I'm Jesus and I'll solve his aging issue. Interesting, would he buy that? 

I guess it would be pretty hard to find anyone here on this forum (let alone a billionaire) who would believe that Craig Wright is Satoshi. 

[Sophokles]

Exactly, also it is not just about seeking recognition. Even if Satoshi were to reveal his true identity he would never do it like this. For example why would Satoshi even sue bitcoin.org owner for hosting the whitepaper that he released under MIT license for free and in public?! The scammer has poked, harassed and sued a lot of people involved in bitcoin like bitcoin core developers too. That's not something the real Satoshi would do. Heck that's not even something a normal person would do

Hahah now that you mention it, I sincerely find it difficult to believe that people believe he is satoshi. I am convinced that we will never know who satoshi was. I believe it was a pseudocharacter created by a bunch of cypherpunks that were dedicated in developing bitcoin and had arranged in advance that they will never say it. In fact, there is no need to know.

A technical question I always had was whether it would be possible (if satoshi was a group of people) that they all need to sign. And it is not only one person who need to sign to prove he is satoshi.

Is there any fanbase for Satoshi? Many people can like him because of his innovation but most of the bitcoin holder doesn't care much. What these fake satoshi want is media attention. I like your idea about Satoshi existence. We know satoshi Nakamoto is the creator of bitcoin network but there can be a group of people who have created the whole thing. At this point, I think it should be kept a secret.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The only thing I don’t really understand about this development is why now?

Probably because of the legal concerns. I was completely ignoring all this clown show, while it did concern me that a few people were really taking him seriously all along, but when I heard he was going to sue Bitcoin developers and saw established people like Maxwell posting wall writeups, I felt he deserves more than ignorance. Fortunately he lost the case, but it is absolutely ridiculous and concerning that in UK, for example, this mentally ill person succeeded on removing the Bitcoin whitepaper from bitcoin.org.

True Bitcoiners know we are all Satoshi (except that scumbag).

[darkangel11]

Great news. You can only be a liar for so long.
I mean, let's be honest here. If your friend, who you really like, told you that he's the best chess player in the world, you'd want to see him play, right?
Time and time again you and all your friends would ask him to play with you but he'd always decline, hiding behind stupid excuses, like he's hungry, or has to clean the bathroom, or has a headache... You'd eventually know he's bullshitting you. That's Craig in a nutshell.

He can't even prove that he was around, doing something in the bitcoin network in 2010. How can he be Satoshi if he wasn't even around when White Paper was published?
He's so full of shit he shouldn't be given any time and attention.

[apogio]

Is there any fanbase for Satoshi? Many people can like him because of his innovation but most of the bitcoin holder doesn't care much. What these fake satoshi want is media attention. I like your idea about Satoshi existence. We know satoshi Nakamoto is the creator of bitcoin network but there can be a group of people who have created the whole thing. At this point, I think it should be kept a secret.

Yes. Personally  I will gain nothing at all if I learn who satoshi is. I assume bitcoin is not going to be benefited from such revelation. Bitcoin is a commodity as I said. It is not a security. There is no CEO here

[Sophokles]

Is there any fanbase for Satoshi? Many people can like him because of his innovation but most of the bitcoin holder doesn't care much. What these fake satoshi want is media attention. I like your idea about Satoshi existence. We know satoshi Nakamoto is the creator of bitcoin network but there can be a group of people who have created the whole thing. At this point, I think it should be kept a secret.

Yes. Personally  I will gain nothing at all if I learn who satoshi is. I assume bitcoin is not going to be benefited from such revelation. Bitcoin is a commodity as I said. It is not a security. There is no CEO here

I agree with your statement that there is no CEO for bitcoin. If Satoshi comes forward suddenly it will lead to increased scrutiny. The government can put charges against him to lock him up for their own agenda. I don't think Satoshi has any interest in revealing his identity if he is still alive. If he had, he would have done that long ago to sell his bitcoin holdings or do something with them.

[The Cryptovator]

This isn't shocking news to me since I never believed him. He proved himself as Faketoshi numerous times. He just tried to be a famous and public figure by claiming to be a Bitcoin creator. It's just one more time he proves to be Faketoshi. He is kind of mental since he constantly claims to be Satoshi Nakamoto. I don't want to waste my time reading his history.

[BigBos]

In the end everything will remain the same where Faketoshi will still be Faketoshi who will only be regarded as a joke with his bragging that he is Satoshi, As for those whose eyes have been opened because they are no longer on Craig's side it will not change anything because after all they have supported from the beginning but when they are now on the opposite side then it is good but trust in them is clearly still very lacking because in the end some of the people who left will definitely still be remembered as former people who believed in Faketoshi and supported as a form of manipulation in order to gain personal benefits.

[goldkingcoiner]

No idea if anyone is still interested in the adventures of our good friend, Dr Craig Wright, who, for those who got into Bitcoin recently, claims to be the real Satoshi Nakamoto, but I'm glad to hear that his biggest backer, Calvin Ayre, finally lost a fate and is turning his back on him.
Hopefully this will indicate the end of Wright's strange endeavors. Many found him a good laughing stock, but he did cause a lot of troubles to many individuals, including some Bitcoin developers, with his nonsensical lawsuits.

More on the story:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/10/02/shocking-leak-blows-up-mystery-of-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto/

https://twitter.com/agerhanssen/status/1708628458404708850

I used to be completely outraged by this faketoshis actions. But slowly I am realizing that he is only a mentally ill guy and instead of getting help, we are fueling his delusions. He is a clown that the entire world is laughing at. He needs to be locked up in a mental health facility and treated. He is either doing this for the attention or he truly believes his own lies.

Either way, I think its a symptom of some kind of neurological or psychological problem. We should stop giving him so much attention.

[icalical]

Actually I have never heard of the name before someone made a thread about fake Satoshi's tweet few days ago, then I dig more about him and to be honest he wasn't so good to do his fraud, lol.
Even some people who aren't really following crypto community (people who only knows Bitcoin) most of them do not believe that Craig is Satoshi, and I think no one on this forum will believe him. Previously his CEO even callout on him being a fraud,
https://www.theblock.co/post/253741/nchain-ceo-departs-asserts-craig-wright-is-not-satoshi

[o_e_l_e_o]

These cases will continue until the community stops paying attention to these idiots.

We should stop giving him so much attention.

That's not how it works. If we all ignore him en masse, then he can run more and more bullshit lawsuits. These lawsuits can do things like prevent certain websites from hosting the whitepaper or letting users download Bitcoin Core, which isn't exactly great for the community. And even if he loses these lawsuits, they can be financially devastating for the other party, which at the moment include a whole host of Bitcoin Core devs. We don't want people to be scared to contribute to Bitcoin for fear of being sued by a scammer.

Rather than ignore him, we need to be loud and vocal in showing the world just how much of a fraud he is, and supporting those who are fighting him in court.

Looks like CSW is doubling down with his usual bullshit:
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710026384326734324#m
https://nitter.cz/agerhanssen/status/1710031786145669512#m

Also, it hasn't exactly taken long for this most recent forgery to be exposed: https://nitter.cz/Arthur_van_Pelt/status/1710144384899932574#m 

[apogio]

That's not how it works. If we all ignore him en masse, then he can run more and more bullshit lawsuits. These lawsuits can do things like prevent certain websites from hosting the whitepaper or letting users download Bitcoin Core, which isn't exactly great for the community. And even if he loses these lawsuits, they can be financially devastating for the other party, which at the moment include a whole host of Bitcoin Core devs. We don't want people to be scared to contribute to Bitcoin for fear of being sued by a scammer.

Rather than ignore him, we need to be loud and vocal in showing the world just how much of a fraud he is, and supporting those who are fighting him in court.

Which court are you referring to? I mean, I don't know the specific legislation in the countries where he went to court against the Devs. It is clearly different and of course the legal expenses are different.

Let me say something though to add to your context. Being loud against him is obvious. What we could also do, is to keep developing new software on Bitcoin. Perhaps not Bitcoin core, but the area still needs lot of development. Especially in regards to the Lightning Network.

Finally, I can't really see how any court could make him win a case against the Devs, without him being able to prove he is who he says he is. So it all comes down to the ability of the Devs to cover legal expenses in a never ending case.

[gmaxwell]

Either way, I think its a symptom of some kind of neurological or psychological problem. We should stop giving him so much attention.

The Bitcoin community essentially ignored him from half way through 2016 until 2018.  In the darkness he was able to assemble a scamming crew of well over a hundred people, including a marketing firm, a media company, acquired an altcoin factory, and the services of four law firms on different continents.  I've heard credible estimates of around 300 people working in service of the greater scheme there, not including the attorneys.  His representatives are lobbying governments all over the world, meeting with state and federal congress people in the US.

From this position they've launched numerous harassment lawsuits, making much of the media either afraid to cover him at all or do so with washy washy language that furthers the impression that his claims are at least credible when they're actually anything but.  The sheer numbers and the lack of normie accessible contradicting information makes it easier to pull others on to enable him.  Because of this most of the OG bitcoin developers have been saddled by this clowns lawsuits for years.

Ignoring him didn't create the problem but it let it grow much worse, so now there are numerous people stuck working full time holding back his attacks in court, attacks that simply can't be ignored.

without him being able to prove he is who he says he is.

His first lawsuit against varrious Bitcoin devs doesn't even depend on his claim to be Satoshi.  He's suing us to force us to publish (and somehow make effective) backdoored bitcoin code to grant him control of 111k BTC that he claims to have purchased long ago, but pretty obviously never owned (the 1feex and the 12ib7 coins).

So it all comes down to the ability of the Devs to cover legal expenses in a never ending case.

No, it doesn't.  That's certainly a major factor, but the litigation is a major imposition even when the costs is covered (and ours are, for the time being at least, thanks to the Bitcoin legal defense fund).  It takes up time and attention, and even in the strongest and best run case there is a chance of losing because courts are far from infallible.  Along the way your privacy is invaded, your schedule constrained.  So why would anyone want to work on Bitcoin when there is a serious risk of this?  There are plenty of other things to do out there.  Funding the legal costs is just table stakes that prevent an immediate loss.

Because the other costs can't easily be solved by money this can't really be continued forever, something has to get him to stop.  Key to that is getting off the position where lots of the public (including the professionals working in the law) are left with a false impression that his claims are at least credible as a result of his successful censorship in the media via chilling effects.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Which court are you referring to?

Most of CSW's bullshit lawsuits so far have been in the UK. The big case moving through the UK courts at the moment which involves several bitcoin devs is the case of COPA v CSW.

Finally, I can't really see how any court could make him win a case against the Devs, without him being able to prove he is who he says he is. So it all comes down to the ability of the Devs to cover legal expenses in a never ending case.

Exactly my point. He doesn't need to win. Holdonaut's legal defense cost over $2 million, even though he won the case. Hodlonaut is/was a teacher, who had nowhere near that kind of money. Cobra has been served with a bill of $640,000 despite not even mounting a defense. And these were relatively short and straightforward trials. The COPA trail referenced above has been going on for years, will be going on for several more years, and involves a lot more time, effort, money, paperwork, stress, etc, for all involved than his other sham lawsuits, even if he eventually loses.

[apogio]

His first lawsuit against varrious Bitcoin devs doesn't even depend on his claim to be Satoshi.  He's suing us to force us to publish (and somehow make effective) backdoored bitcoin code to grant him control of 111k BTC that he claims to have purchased long ago, but pretty obviously never owned (the 1feex and the 12ib7 coins).

I really need to find more information. I don't know if it's my lack of experience in regards to cryptography, but I really don't understand how you can write code to give him access to any Bitcoin Address. In fact, I even hate the idea. All of us live with the idea that we must make sure our seed is secured, otherwise we lose our coins. How exactly is he supposed to be better than us. Besides, why does he want BTC since he loves BSV more?

Exactly my point. He doesn't need to win. Holdonaut's legal defense cost over $2 million, even though he won the case. Hodlonaut is/was a teacher, who had nowhere near that kind of money. Cobra has been served with a bill of $640,000 despite not even mounting a defense. And these were relatively short and straightforward trials. The COPA trail referenced above has been going on for years, will be going on for several more years, and involves a lot more time, effort, money, paperwork, stress, etc, for all involved than his other sham lawsuits, even if he eventually loses.

No comment man, really... Unethical attack...

[franky1]

he doesnt care about winning or losing, he personally didnt pay when there were loses, his entourage of scammers and dupes did.
all of this drama win or lose is just more content for his fame story which he thinks he can sell for hundreds of millions to publishers and movie producers and repeat it by having one story of becoming famous, one story of becoming infamous. then other stories of how he stepped between the two and so on (hoping for near billions in all life movie rights deals)
and its these promises of hundreds of millions that end up keeping his entourage of scammers and dupes to keep funding his campaigns

yes these lawsuits are SLAPP(frivolous) and yes it affects many people involved and many not involved. but even in a frivolous lawsuit if there is even a grain of salt of one valid dispute in the claim that needs judgement it wont just be dismissed as frivolous, so the only way to stop him would be if his entourage/dupes stop funding his campaigns

[BlackHatCoiner]

I really need to find more information.

You should check out these threads from last year:

- Hodlonaut Trial.
- So, you want to get sued by a scammer?.
- BSV subforum.

I think they pretty much sum up what happened in the last years with this pathetic liar.

I don't know if it's my lack of experience in regards to cryptography, but I really don't understand how you can write code to give him access to any Bitcoin Address.

You can't, it'd require to fork the client and specify that particular transaction outputs can be spent without a cryptographic signature, which would obviously not be accepted by the Bitcoin network. Nonetheless, he surely has ruled that small detail out in BSV clown network by implementing on-chain censorship: https://twitter.com/BobSummerwill/status/1577714409618931713 (the tweeted link is archived in here).

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Happy that i was here when the whole saga started and to me, Craig wright was a man i followed back then because he sure knows how to make people like me have a good laugh, he was simply a comedian.
I used the word "was" because i think that all his claims about being the real Satoshi Nakamoto is now in the past, He himself right from time knew that no body believed him and neither will people ever believe him, he has the money, all he was doing is what we call over here "publicity stunt", A way to get himself famous and known worldwide.

And he did achieve that, at least today, he's or his name is not written in the book of history, as one the men who once claimed to be Satoshi Nakamoto.

[franky1]

You can't, it'd require to fork the client and specify that particular transaction outputs can be spent without a cryptographic signature, which would obviously not be accepted by the Bitcoin network. Nonetheless, he surely has ruled that small detail out in BSV clown network by implementing on-chain censorship: https://twitter.com/BobSummerwill/status/1577714409618931713 (the tweeted link is archived in here).

yes it would have to be a hard fork breaking many rules.. but also having to get the economic nodes of services/exchanges and merchants to accept the fork as "bitcoin"..
however CSW could just fork it himself,(he already done it 2017/8) it does not need core devs to fork and produce a chain that allows funds to be moved without private key signing.
but again it still requires the economic nodes of major services to treat the fork as "bitcoin" and no longer service the natural bitcoin consensus we use today
CSW knows that trying to sue core devs wont get him "access to bitcoin" it would just be another altcoin airdrop of some ignored fork no service caters to. so ultimately he just wants to poke at core devs for publicity and malice knowing he wont get the claimed demands he wants

[gmaxwell]

I really need to find more information. I don't know if it's my lack of experience in regards to cryptography, but I really don't understand how you can write code to give him access to any Bitcoin Address.

Anyone who can program can write a backdoored version of the Bitcoin software that lets someone bypass the authentication-- go comment out the signature checks, to give a simplified example.  This wouldn't actually *work* because obviously users wouldn't adopt the backdoored version and any that did (presumably Wright) would just form a separate independent currency as their blocks would be rejected by everyone without the backdoored software.  If his position was that people would adopt it, because it were somehow desirable he wouldn't need any of us to do it.

But it doesn't have to work form him to claim it does and tie people up in court-- it just has to be not blindingly obvious to a judge that knows relatively little about Bitcoin.

[apogio]

Anyone who can program can write a backdoored version of the Bitcoin software that lets someone bypass the authentication-- go comment out the signature checks, to give a simplified example.  This wouldn't actually *work* because obviously users wouldn't adopt the backdoored version and any that did (presumably Wright) would just form a separate independent currency as their blocks would be rejected by everyone without the backdoored software.  If his position was that people would adopt it, because it were somehow desirable he wouldn't need any of us to do it.

But it doesn't have to work form him to claim it does and tie people up in court-- it just has to be not blindly obvious to a judge that knows relatively little about Bitcoin.

Exactly my point. There is no way, no matter what changes you decide to make, that all other users (miners, nodes) will accept them. In my opinion, CSW only does that in order to disturb and lead you to money loss in legal expenses. I may be wrong though.

[gmaxwell]

Exactly my point. There is no way, no matter what changes you decide to make, that all other users (miners, nodes) will accept them. In my opinion, CSW only does that in order to disturb and lead you to money loss in legal expenses. I may be wrong though.

Also, and likely foremost, because he has sponsors that believe him that it would work and finance him as a result.

This doesn't make anything any better however.  The targets of the lawsuit are no more able to ignore it-- and if Wright bamboozles the court as he's bamboozled so many others and he wins they'll be facing bankruptcy and potentially even arrest when they're unable to do the impossible.  And if they don't fight him vigorously and competently he'll win by default.  Being in the right doesn't make you win in court if you don't fight any more than it lets you win in a duel when you fail to raise your gun. While Bitcoin users are safe from the backdoor itself, if he's able to disincentivize participating Bitcoin will be much more vulnerable to other issues and attacks.

The fact that he's demanding an impossibility just makes the public under-react because they wrongly think it's not a serious threat.  But it's not the thing he's demand for that is the threat, it's the nature of the demand.

Consider this: What would people say if the UK government banned Bitcoin.org from distributing Bitcoin, instead leaving people to go find more dubious alternative sources or malicious ones?  I think they'd be outraged and there would be vigorous opposition to this act of censorship.  But guess what?  It already happened!  But because it happened through Wright getting a judgement against the person operating Bitcoin.org it gets treated as just as much an irrelevant joke as Wright himself is.  But the effect is the same: the UK government has banned Bitcoin.org from distributing bitcoin.  The fact that some fking scammer clown was the proximal cause isn't relevant in terms of the seriousness of the effect, it's only relevant in terms of the actions needed to put a stop to it.

So likewise, we have the power of the UK government being used to intimidate and harass open source developers working on Bitcoin, making people afraid to participate, and making it clearly against their rational self interest to participate.  That's whats happening.  That ought to be basis for evaluating the seriousness and impact.  If it were the scammer clown alone or just with the help of some bought and paid for promoters that could well be addressed by ignoring it or an occasional editorial making fun of his antics.  He's not relevant when it comes to the seriousness of the issue, he's only relevant because his fraud is the causative factor and shutting it down is the shortest path to ending the abuse.

[apogio]

.............

Thanks for the response. Could you tell me what's his argument concerning the UTXOs that you mentioned above (1Feex etc)? He claims he owned the private keys that derive those addresses, but he lost them somehow? If so, how? And again, why does this have anything to do with the bitcoin Devs? I am curious to know and of course any relevant link is well accepted.

There are some links above from some users but I haven't been able to read them today. I probably will do so tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for the info you have provided. Much appreciated.

[gmaxwell]

Thanks for the response. Could you tell me what's his argument concerning the UTXOs that you mentioned above (1Feex etc)? He claims he owned the private keys that derive those addresses, but he lost them somehow? If so, how? And again, why does this have anything to do with the bitcoin Devs? I am curious to know and of course any relevant link is well accepted.

He claims that he purchased the coins 1feex and 12ib7 in 2011/2010. He has claimed that in February 2020 "hackers" hid a wireless access point in his home behind a TV and used it to compromise his computer and erase the keys.  This is conveniently right after the date he was supposed to get access to his bitcoin fortune via a 'bonded courier'.  He claims that the coins were also stored in one drive and google drive and that they were 'synchronized' and erased too (so much for backups...).  He claims that after discovering the hack and the loss he wiped his own computers to be sure they were free of hackers.

The coins have not moved since 2011/2010, wright explains the "hackers" failing to move the coins-- unlike any hacker previously known to man-- by claiming the coins were protected by unspecified "algorithmic masking" (the precise meaning of which which he never explains, I would suggest that people refrain from making up things it could mean because he'll just adopt your explanations as people here are likely to be significantly more clue-full than he is).

The 1feex coins were well known to be coins that belonged to mtgox customers which were stolen long before Wright came on the scene back in March 2011 when they last moved.  Wright had previously included the 1feex and 12ib7 addresses on lists of addresses he claimed to own to the Australian Tax Office as part of R&D tax credit and GST rebate fraud.  The ATO concluded he didn't own the claimed coins, because (among other reasons) he couldn't sign with their keys when challenged.  After the lists became public the real owners of some of the addresses on his lists were identified. One even signed a message calling Wright a liar and a fraud.  I believe 1feex and 12ib7 were the only large addresses from the lists that hadn't been moved away by the time he started the lawsuits.

Wright provided a few records to demonstrate his ownership.  They are obvious forgeries (some apparently created to support the GST rebate fraud, some apparently newly created for case), but even if they weren't they wouldn't be particularly persuasive as they'd still just be his assertion-- they aren't third party verifiable.

You can read in detail in the documents at https://bitcoindefense.org/our-work/ under "tulip trading".

Particularly, our preliminary issue application goes into some detail about Wright's "evidence" being junk: https://bitcoindefense.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/2023.07.11-Elliss-1-Preliminary-Issue-Application-FINAL.pdf and after that was filed we gained access to prove even more of it was forged, which is described starting at paragraph 40 in https://bitcoindefense.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/BL-2021-000313-Tulip-Trading-Ltd-D2-12s-skeleton-argument-for-3-October-2023.pdf  

And again, why does this have anything to do with the bitcoin Devs?

Wright has asserted that the people he's suing in that case have both the ability to introduce changes into the bitcoin protocol bypassing its authentication to allow him to seize these coins (the backdoor I referred to up-thread), and that we owe him a fiduciary duty under the law to do so.  A fiduciary duty is a duty of single minded loyalty, pretty much the strongest and most rare duty in the law.  We reply that he has not proved the coins are his, which is unsurprising because they're pretty obviously not his, that we don't have any duty to help anyone recover coins, much less write or publish backdoors, that we don't have the ability to grant him access to these coins. (and if we did, there are coins the defendants have lost that we'd have have recovered for ourselves first!)  While anyone could make a backdoored version of bitcoin, including presumably us, no one would run it because it would expressly defeat the purpose of the system as clearly explained by Satoshi (who wright claims to be!) and so it would have no effect (except perhaps creating another altcoin like BSV that no one but Wright wants, and destroying the authors reputations which I'm sure would suit him fine).

The argument that contributors to MIT licensed open source software owe fiduciary duties to rescue users of the software, in spite of the clear license language to the contrary is extremely concerning.  In both the US and the UK a police officer standing next to you with a life preserver has no duty to try to save you if you start drowning... yet Wright wants uncompensated volunteer open source contributors to be exposed to billions of dollars in damages if they don't rescue users from misfortune which the contributors had nothing to do with except having contributed to the software the user was using.  It's hard to imaging how open source could exist in a world with that kind of liability.

It would be a large scale disaster far outside of Bitcoin if he were able to establish that precedent that the MIT license waver of liability were insufficient.

As to why he's doing this when it plainly won't work:  Some of the defendants, like myself, had previously spoken out against Wright's obviously false claims of being Satoshi (as experts on Bitcoin related tech and first hand witnesses of its history).  Wright made numerous tweets saying that he intended to destroy the lives of the Bitcoin developers, making it pretty clear that retaliation is at least part of his motivation.  Wright's litigation (and lifestyle) is being funded by a wealthy sucker who may believe Wright's claims that the coins could be taken this way-- expecting a multi-billion dollar windfall.  Suing almost all the still visible "OG" bitcoin developers may have also been a strategic move to undermine our value as witnesses in litigation over his claims to be Satoshi and certainly has discouraged other people from stepping forward and speaking out against him.  It also explains his choice of defendants-- and it includes many people who stopped working on Bitcoin prior to his supposed theft but whom had attracted his attention by calling out his fraud (like me!).

Fortunately the Bitcoin legal defense fund was created to make sure that the outcome wouldn't be Wright "winning" by bankrupting his targets before the case even reached a resolution. (As happened in his lawsuit against podcaster Peter McCormack; though Wright seized defeat from the jaws of victory by getting caught lying about his damages.)

The legal tradition common to the US and UK torts makes some fairly strong assumptions that the participants are incrementally mostly honest because being dishonest will make you lose if you're caught (and potentially receive worse sanctions, though that's rare). But when you never had a real prospect of success and were only litigating to harass or for some collateral benefit (e.g. to keep getting funded) these incentives don't work well.  In the US we have widespread anti-slapp laws that are a basic attempt to try to address this weakness, but the UK is behind on these sorts of protections.  His willingness to tell arbitrary lies, forge documents, etc. makes it difficult and costly deal with this litigation even though it should be an easy slam dunk.

[dansus021]

In my opinion, the court cases, arguments and all the unnecessary and boring discussions are not necessarily. Satoshi have Bitcoin wallets and account in this forum. If Craig claimes to be Satoshi, he should login his account in this forum and make a post to convince the Bitcoin community. On the other hand, let him make a transaction from Satoshi's wallet. If he fails to do any of the above, I will gladly join the group that see him as a laughing stock.

True at least just sign some message from the address  If Craig can do that then he real satoshi and doesn't need this ongoing drama for a couple of years. Neither he nor his friend still talked about Bitcoin Satoshi Vision that pretty much community didnt accept it

[Wind_FURY]

Either way, I think its a symptom of some kind of neurological or psychological problem. We should stop giving him so much attention.

The Bitcoin community essentially ignored him from half way through 2016 until 2018.  

I believe 2015 was when Faketoshi was first "introduced" to the community when he joined Nick Szabo and other Bitcoiners in a panel through live stream. There were some people, the big blockers, who insist that it was Nick Szabo who introduced him as Satoshi, which is simply not true.

Plus was the community ignoring him from 2016 to 2018? It was a nocoiner friend of mine that texted me that "Satoshi's real identity was discovered" after early news of Gavin Andresen and Faketoshi's "private signing sessions" was everywhere during 2016. That's probably when the community started talking about him.

In the darkness he was able to assemble a scamming crew of well over a hundred people, including a marketing firm, a media company, acquired an altcoin factory, and the services of four law firms on different continents.  I've heard credible estimates of around 300 people working in service of the greater scheme there, not including the attorneys.  His representatives are lobbying governments all over the world, meeting with state and federal congress people in the US.

The name that never gets mentioned is, Jon Matonis. How important is he in the anti-Bitcoin apparatus launched by Faketoshi?

[apogio]

....

I will return to this post once I have some merit to send. Thanks, very well explained.

[tygeade]

No idea if anyone is still interested in the adventures of our good friend, Dr Craig Wright, who, for those who got into Bitcoin recently, claims to be the real Satoshi Nakamoto, but I'm glad to hear that his biggest backer, Calvin Ayre, finally lost a fate and is turning his back on him.

Not really shocking considering how long could someone stay with a person who claims to be someone they are not? I mean at first you may try to help him, hell at first you may even believe him, but slowly you will realize that this is going to a point where he might literally hurt himself trying to prove to the world that he is someone who he is not and that is going to end up being a bigger trouble.

I believe that he should be doing something else, give his time to something that will benefit the world, and he could even start a charity at this point. That way, people who still trust him and believes in his cause could donate to him, and he will spend his time helping someone, which would rebuild his entire reputation as well. It's really a smart move.

[gmaxwell]

Plus was the community ignoring him from 2016 to 2018? It was a nocoiner friend of mine that texted me that "Satoshi's real identity was discovered" after early news of Gavin Andresen and Faketoshi's "private signing sessions" was everywhere during 2016. That's probably when the community started talking about him.

That's why I said half way though 2016, by June his claims were well and truly debunked and dead in the Bitcoin community.  He went on to sucker bcashers for a while.

The name that never gets mentioned is, Jon Matonis. How important is he in the anti-Bitcoin apparatus launched by Faketoshi?

He was briefly nChain's CEO but dropped out. I tried contacting him several times after trying to see if he had changed his position, including forwarding him posts by Wright fraudulently claiming to be involved in the formation of the Bitcoin foundation (which Jon would have known first hand was a lie) but I heard nothing in response.

If he's still involved he's in deep cover.

Last I heard he was backing Samurai Wallet.  I hope they wouldn't accept funding from/through someone involved with faketoshi.

[apogio]

Last I heard he was backing Samurai Wallet.  I hope they wouldn't accept funding from/through someone involved with faketoshi.

I hope so too, otherwise I will stop using Samourai, Sentinel and Dojo server, which, so far, I like a lot.

- Hodlonaut Trial.

I read all of it, including the reddit posts by gmaxwell as o_e_l_e_o suggested. Good information and I am glad CSW lost the case.

By the way, I think you can find the whole trial on YouTube in case anyone wants to.

Finally, I kinda like this https://cryptocloaks.com/product/space-cat-figurine/ and I will order it. I saw that the seller sent 50% of the sales to support hodlonaut's trial back then. Pretty cool figurine.

To all of you:
I am curious to know all your thoughts on Gavin Andresen who claimed that CSW signed in front of him But he was given the chance to be a core developer by satoshi himself.

[DooMAD]

By the way, I think you can find the whole trial on YouTube in case anyone wants to.

The thing you have to be slightly careful of is who the video is made by.  Ayre's propaganda outlet, CoinGeek, have uploaded videos to YouTube to cover that trial (along with other subjects), which are full of misrepresentations and spin.  Avoid these ones unless you enjoy being lied to. 

[Wind_FURY]

Plus was the community ignoring him from 2016 to 2018? It was a nocoiner friend of mine that texted me that "Satoshi's real identity was discovered" after early news of Gavin Andresen and Faketoshi's "private signing sessions" was everywhere during 2016. That's probably when the community started talking about him.

That's why I said half way though 2016, by June his claims were well and truly debunked and dead in the Bitcoin community.  He went on to sucker bcashers for a while.

The name that never gets mentioned is, Jon Matonis. How important is he in the anti-Bitcoin apparatus launched by Faketoshi?

He was briefly nChain's CEO but dropped out. I tried contacting him several times after trying to see if he had changed his position, including forwarding him posts by Wright fraudulently claiming to be involved in the formation of the Bitcoin foundation (which Jon would have known first hand was a lie) but I heard nothing in response.

If he's still involved he's in deep cover.

Last I heard he was backing Samurai Wallet.  I hope they wouldn't accept funding from/through someone involved with faketoshi.

I hope not to weaponize one of Bitcoin's most popular CoinJoin apps against it. Tin-foil hat on, but knowing what the BCash SV people's Modus Operandi, they will probably try to co-opt the Samourai developers. I believe they successfully did it to Nassim Taleb, because why would a smart man like him join Craig Wright? 🤔

Plus, Craig Wright likes to sue people that have admin control/own webservers' that host the Bitcoin white-paper for "intellectual rights violations", no? He should sue Patrick McHenry.

https://mchenry.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bitcoin.pdf

Policymakers should be on the side of innovation and ingenuity, which are vital to American competitiveness. I hope others in US govt join me. #Bitcoin

https://twitter.com/patrickmchenry/status/1354195437520084992

Breaking down political barriers.

 

[o_e_l_e_o]

So, looks like CSW has changed his legal team yet again, now moving to a firm called "Shoosmiths". Not clear if this is because Ayre pulled the funding from Travers Smith, or perhaps they (like multiple previous legal teams) realized that CSW is a fraud and all his "evidence" is forgeries. Or perhaps CSW fired them since they were unwilling to lie in court. Who knows?

Congrats to @Shoosmiths. So we have:

-Clayton Utz
-Rivero Mestre
-ONTIER
-Wikborg Rein
-Schjødt (were also replaced by Travers Smith, right?)
-Travers Smith
-Shoosmiths

This is so expensive, I'm sure I forgot a few... 🤭

Meanwhile none of his opponents ever changed counsel.

Note that this is for the Coinbase case and not the COPA case. As far as I know, there has been no word yet if Travers Smith are also dropping out of the COPA case. I guess time will tell.

[DeathAngel]

There are still people who blindly believe his nonsense, that he is Satoshi. I see BSV maxis on Twitter who believe him, so weird. Maybe they don’t but it suits the narrative to protect their shitcoin value. He is losing court cases regularly now, it won’t be long before he is a mere blip on the radar of bitcoins illustrious history & soon future. There have been many fraudsters & snake oil salesmen since bitcoin was created, there aren’t many more conniving & devious, maybe even desperate as Craig Wright. He’s irrelevant but soon will just be a distajt bar memory.

[apogio]

As far as I know, there has been no word yet if Travers Smith are also dropping out of the COPA case. I guess time will tell.

Wasn't the COPA case closed? That's what I thought, that COPA have officially won the case.

I see BSV maxis on Twitter who believe him, so weird.

Why weird? Twitter (or X) is a place where anyone (literally anyone) can say anything (literally anything) they want. The level of misinformation on Twitter is phenomenal. I don't talk about inaccurate info, but rather about huge lies that can have severe consequences which are much more serious. Personally I closed Twitter due to the fact that I was seeing how easy it was to lie and gain followers based on lies. This is a very serious problem in general.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Wasn't the COPA case closed? That's what I thought, that COPA have officially won the case.

No, not at all.

The most recent development in the COPA case was a judgement on various application passed last week, viewable here: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2023/2408.html

If you scroll right to the end of that judgement, the judge lays out a revised timetable for the rest of the trial. The main hearings aren't due to start until January.

[apogio]

The most recent development in the COPA case was a judgement on various application passed last week, viewable here: https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2023/2408.html

I have read that, thanks. Is it true that CSW claims he proved G. Andresen and J. Matonis that he can sign with the PK linked to the addresses of the first bitcoin blocks (aka Satoshi's PK)?

[BlackHatCoiner]

Is it true that CSW claims he proved G. Andresen and J. Matonis that he can sign with the PK linked to the addresses of the first bitcoin blocks (aka Satoshi's PK)?

I don't know about J. Matonis, but he did claim he proved it to Gavin. But, the worse part is that Gavin himself claimed he saw the evidence: https://piped.video/watch?v=W1f5Ms5heMM. "I think that for me, he proved it beyond reasonable doubt". Gavin also wrote it in a blog post in 2016 that he trusts CSW: http://gavinandresen.ninja/satoshi. In both the video and his page, he claims he was shown cryptographic evidence. I thought the private keys were compromised by a hacker, or lost. How could he do that? And even if he did, why not showing to everybody out there a signed message?  

As you can view from the page update, he's now believing the opposite and he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Seems like someone got bribed to outright lie.  

His reputation is was worth as much as he was paid for this. Now more? Zero.

[apogio]

As you can view from the page update, he's now believing the opposite and he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Seems like someone got bribed to outright lie.  

I have missed this part. Yeah it makes sense, having got bribed. However, sometimes, when I feel like something is definetely wrong, I try to think about it from the other ones' perspective. Having said that, there is a strong question in my mind. "Can someone be so arrogant and stupid, to try to convince people he is someone who he isn't ?" . Apparently and evidently yes, but... It feels so wrong, if you get what I mean.

Now, to the more technical aspect of the conversation. I can't imagine how a software engineer like G. Andresen could simply lie like that. Apart from it being unethical, it also insults our knowledge and common sense. If Craig Wright had access to Satoshi's PK, he would simply sign in front of everyone. Period! Everything else is for morons. (Forgive my lang).

[o_e_l_e_o]

Now, to the more technical aspect of the conversation. I can't imagine how a software engineer like G. Andresen could simply lie like that. Apart from it being unethical, it also insults our knowledge and common sense. If Craig Wright had access to Satoshi's PK, he would simply sign in front of everyone. Period! Everything else is for morons. (Forgive my lang).

I'm not defending Andresen by any means, but if you read the emails between him and CSW prior to their meeting in London, it is clear that Gavin already believes at that point that CSW is Satoshi. The meeting in London is not to convince a non-believer, but rather to seal the deal for someone who is already 99% of the way there. Given that every human on Earth suffers from confirmation bias to some degree, perhaps Gavin simply saw what he wanted to see. That doesn't excuse his complete failure of critical thinking, however.

If you want to read the emails in question, they were submitted as evidence during the Hodlonaut trial in Norway. The evidence pack is available as a zip file Greg Maxwell archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20221001141835/https://nt4tn.net/scammer-craig-wright/3qqpv3.zip. The emails are in Appendix 15 (Bilag 15.pdf in Norwegian). You might also be interested in the NDA CSW made Gavin sign about the signing session in Bilag 13.

The signing session itself was an absolute sham. Here are the two very trivial lines of code which you need to add to Electrum to make it produce fake valid signatures for any key pair you like. Then all CSW had to do was get this fake version of Electrum on the laptop they were using to verify his signature. Now, instead of using the laptop Gavin had brought with him, CSW used a laptop produced by a member of his team, in a location he had chosen and previously had access to, to download Electrum and perform the verification. I'm sure I don't need to point out the dozen or so problems with that process. Why was CSW allowed to control the device being used? Why not use Gavin's laptop? Why was CSW allowed to choose which wallet software to use? Why not use Bitcoin Core? Why was Electrum downloaded over an untrusted network which CSW had access to (and therefore trivial to perform a man-in-the-middle attack and download his fake Electrum client)? Why wasn't the Electrum download verified? Why did the setting up of this laptop take, in Gavin's words, "many hours, I don’t recall how many hours, but it took much longer than expected"? Why, when Gavin asked to perform the verification on his own laptop, did CSW refuse and make stupid excuses?

Well, we all know why. But why didn't Gavin? I mean, we tell newbies on this forum not to trust any downloads and verify everything themselves. Gavin is supposed to be an expert.

[OgNasty]

Gavin made a mistake. He has come out several times in the years since that mistake and stated that he does NOT believe Craig Wright is satoshi but for some reason people just keep pointing out his mistake and making  him out to be a villain for it. It’s really weird to watch. Without Gavin, Bitcoin wouldn’t have been as successful as early on as it was. He’s a legend and should really be acknowledged as such.

[apogio]

The signing session itself was an absolute sham. Here are the two very trivial lines of code which you need to add to Electrum to make it produce fake valid signatures for any key pair you like.

So I can be Satoshi too. This is fantastic, I always wanted fame.

Then all CSW had to do was get this fake version of Electrum on the laptop they were using to verify his signature. Now, instead of using the laptop Gavin had brought with him, CSW used a laptop produced by a member of his team, in a location he had chosen and previously had access to, to download Electrum and perform the verification. I'm sure I don't need to point out the dozen or so problems with that process. Why was CSW allowed to control the device being used? Why not use Gavin's laptop? Why was CSW allowed to choose which wallet software to use? Why not use Bitcoin Core? Why was Electrum downloaded over an untrusted network which CSW had access to (and therefore trivial to perform a man-in-the-middle attack and download his fake Electrum client)? Why wasn't the Electrum download verified? Why did the setting up this laptop take, in Gavin's words, "many hours, I don’t recall how many hours, but it took much longer than expected"? Why, when Gavin asked to perform the verification on his own laptop, did CSW refuse and make stupid excuses?

Well, we all know why. But why didn't Gavin? I mean, we tell newbies on this forum not to trust any downloads and verify everything themselves.

I like the way you put those arguments. I don't know why it is not so obvious to all the people who believe him. In fact, I don't know how Gavin was convinced. Seriously! In times like this I keep asking myself if there is something I don't understand, because things go out of my common sense. But, I have come to conclusion that as BlackHatCoiner said, being bribed seems a good excuse.

Gavin made a mistake. He has come out several times in the years since that mistake and stated that he does NOT believe Craig Wright is satoshi but for some reason people just keep pointing out his mistake and making  him out to be a villain for it. It’s really weird to watch. Without Gavin, Bitcoin wouldn’t have been as successful as early on as it was. He’s a legend and should really be acknowledged as such.

We have all made mistakes. If he has sincerely changed his mind, it is good for him and I respect that.

But! This is not a mistake that can be easily forgotten. As o_e_l_e_o stated above, all those questions prove that there is something deeper that we ignore. He was, in my opinion and I may be wrong, very easily convinced that CSW was Satoshi. He didn't even seem to be suspicious at all. I mean, we know that Gavin took the leading development role from Satoshi himself (via email). Did CSW do anything (anything at all), to prove that he was the person that gave Bitcoin's development to Gavin? Did he provide any proof of having talked to him back in 2010? If not, then how was he convinced so easily?

Let me repeat though. If he has sincerely changed his mind, it is good for him and I respect that. But id doesn't change the past.

[Wind_FURY]

Gavin made a mistake. He has come out several times in the years since that mistake and stated that he does NOT believe Craig Wright is satoshi but for some reason people just keep pointing out his mistake and making  him out to be a villain for it. It’s really weird to watch. Without Gavin, Bitcoin wouldn’t have been as successful as early on as it was. He’s a legend and should really be acknowledged as such.

He's definitely NOT a villain, merely unpopular and generally unliked by some people or sub-groups within the Bitcoin community, not only because he announced that Craig Wright "is Satoshi Nakamoto", but also because,

- He went to the C.I.A. headquarters in Langley, which might have scared Satoshi. Why did he go there?

- He proposed that Bitcoin hard fork to bigger blocks with Bitcoin-XT. The community was split on that proposal, which the people who supported bigger blocks left to join the altcoins BCash and its fork BCash SV.

[BlackHatCoiner]

"Can someone be so arrogant and stupid, to try to convince people he is someone who he isn't ?" . Apparently and evidently yes, but... It feels so wrong, if you get what I mean.

To me the question is rather: "Can there be a sane person who is convinced he is Satoshi?". We often see cases like Craig, as there are too much to gain by being such a liar. This guy requested to receive the 1fee coins, just because he made up a story and fought tooth and nail to force that view on the protocol using the law.

But, there really isn't anything to gain by believing this trash. I'm genuinely curious how some were convinced.

Gavin made a mistake.

Getting bribed is an important mistake. You can't trust someone who is getting paid to lie. And if he wasn't really paid to say that crap, and was honestly convinced, then you can't trust him either as he's lacking technical expertise severely.

[DooMAD]

Gavin made a mistake. He has come out several times in the years since that mistake and stated that he does NOT believe Craig Wright is satoshi but for some reason people just keep pointing out his mistake and making  him out to be a villain for it. It’s really weird to watch.

I feel like we've had this conversation before.  Gavin alludes to the notion that Faketoshi isn't satoshi, but never seems to say it outright. 

Even the update on his own blog feels like a cop-out:

Feb 2023: I don’t believe in rewriting history, so I’m going to leave this post up. But in the seven years since I wrote it, a lot has happened, and I now know it was a mistake to trust Craig Wright as much as I did. I regret getting sucked into the “who is (or isn’t) Satoshi” game, and I refuse to play that game any more.

He can't seem to bring himself to say "Craig Wright is not satoshi".  Is that not weird?

[ChiBitCTy]

I was watching a couple YoutTube videos over the weekend having to do with bitcoin and Craig Wrights name was brought up.  I was shocked to see in the comments section that there are still so many people who support this utter moron.  He's so clearly not Satoshi, and Satoshi didn't spend all that time and effort hiding his identity to then one day come out as the creator.  I mean it just makes no sense at all.

[Wind_FURY]

Gavin made a mistake.

Getting bribed is an important mistake. You can't trust someone who is getting paid to lie. And if he wasn't really paid to say that crap, and was honestly convinced, then you can't trust him either as he's lacking technical expertise severely.

Was Gavin Andresen really bribed, or is that just a presumption from some people? "Tin-foil hats on", yes it's very possible, BUT is there confirmation that he was bribed?

Gavin made a mistake. He has come out several times in the years since that mistake and stated that he does NOT believe Craig Wright is satoshi but for some reason people just keep pointing out his mistake and making  him out to be a villain for it. It’s really weird to watch.

I feel like we've had this conversation before.  Gavin alludes to the notion that Faketoshi isn't satoshi, but never seems to say it outright.  

Even the update on his own blog feels like a cop-out:

Feb 2023: I don’t believe in rewriting history, so I’m going to leave this post up. But in the seven years since I wrote it, a lot has happened, and I now know it was a mistake to trust Craig Wright as much as I did. I regret getting sucked into the “who is (or isn’t) Satoshi” game, and I refuse to play that game any more.

He can't seem to bring himself to say "Craig Wright is not satoshi".  Is that not weird?

He probably doesn't want any legal action from Craig Wright, just a shower thought.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But didn't Gavin also say he was "bamboozled" by Craig Wright and Jon Matonis? That would be enough evidence for me to believe that Gavin does not think Craig Wright to be Satoshi Nakamoto.

[franky1]

Was Gavin Andresen really bribed, or is that just a presumption from some people? "Tin-foil hats on", yes it's very possible, BUT is there confirmation that he was bribed?

gavin didnt just travel to the UK for just a free lunch
having to sign NDA's and such there is usually and commonly some form of compensation involved.
gavin in early years already mentioned he was going to retire around the time he did so its obviously a selling out of his reputation for a pay day

i see it the same situation as the native americans that thought no one can own the land so when some colonials invaded and were offering money to be declared the rightful owners. the natives just laughed and thought "free money", not thinking anything would come of it due to how they experienced their land having no owner before. thinking even after taking the money people cant claim to be a owner, thus no harm in taking a pay day

[BlackHatCoiner]

Was Gavin Andresen really bribed, or is that just a presumption from some people? "Tin-foil hats on", yes it's very possible, BUT is there confirmation that he was bribed?

Merely an assumption I have made. We obviously don't have evidence when bribing happens, but it seems extremely likely to be the case here, IMO.

I mean, we have a Bitcoin developer who is known to having technical expertise with Bitcoin in general, publicly stating he thinks CSW could be Satoshi, because... He was invited in his place to get shown cryptographic evidence privately from altered software? Didn't it cross his mind to request digital signature over the Internet? What kind of desire to do this privately is that, if Craig doesn't mind Gavin publicly stating he was shown cryptographic evidence? Can the rest of us confirm? Wild conspiracy, but they might have exchanged more than "digital signatures".  

BTW, needless to say he must have got mountains of evidence that CSW is not Satoshi, just like everyone else here. And as an icing in the cake, he still hasn't convinced us he really regret getting involved in all that shit, for if he did, it would be easy to just state the obvious; "I believe Craig is a scam".

[pawel7777]

Merely an assumption I have made. We obviously don't have evidence when bribing happens, but it seems extremely likely to be the case here, IMO.

I mean, we have a Bitcoin developer who is known to having technical expertise with Bitcoin in general, publicly stating he thinks CSW could be Satoshi, because... He was invited in his place to get shown cryptographic evidence privately from altered software? Didn't it cross his mind to request digital signature over the Internet? What kind of desire to do this privately is that, if Craig doesn't mind Gavin publicly stating he was shown cryptographic evidence? Can the rest of us confirm? Wild conspiracy, but they might have exchanged more than "digital signatures".  

BTW, needless to say he must have got mountains of evidence that CSW is not Satoshi, just like everyone else here. And as an icing in the cake, he still hasn't convinced us he really regret getting involved in all that shit, for if he did, it would be easy to just state the obvious; "I believe Craig is a scam".

To cut GA some slack, back then, Wright had a lot of positive press and was often pictured as a humble, modest genius which kind of fit in with many people's expectations of the real-life Satoshi. No one really knew what kind of psycho he would turn out to be.

And GA did admit that he regrets getting involved in it in the below statement, although he has never explicitly acknowledged that he has been duped nor called CW a fraud.

http://gavinandresen.ninja/satoshi

Feb 2023: I don’t believe in rewriting history, so I’m going to leave this post up. But in the seven years since I wrote it, a lot has happened, and I now know it was a mistake to trust Craig Wright as much as I did. I regret getting sucked into the “who is (or isn’t) Satoshi” game, and I refuse to play that game any more.

Anyhow, he did pay a big price and went from the single most influential person in the Bitcoin space to someone almost completely forgotten.

[gmaxwell]

To cut GA some slack, back then, Wright had a lot of positive press and was often pictured as a humble, modest genius which kind of fit in with many people's expectations of the real-life Satoshi. No one really knew what kind of psycho he would turn out to be.

It's funny how polarized the community is on this. One one hand you have people being extremely damning and just failing to comprehend the psychology of someone who was victimized by a conman making really strong assumptions that there was a big conspiracy, on the other hand you have people making all kinds of excuses.  Upthread someone linked to the archive with the email chain between Gavin and Wright.  I really recommend reading it.  In particular, it has Gavin pointing to reddit posts basically explaining Wright's fraud, in one message he even says that Craig is making himself sound like a fraud!  You simply cannot say that he had no warning.  And, in fact, Wright tried to get other people to witness for him like Andreas who were prudent enough to not put themselves into an easily compromised position.

I think the thread undermines both most of the apologia but also most of the conspiracy theories.

The fact is that conmen exploit vulnerabilities in the human psyche just like a buffer overflow attack exploits a piece of vulnerable software.  If you're not the target, if you don't have a vulnerability in the same place it's going to just seem inexplicable to you.   You could imagine some anthropomorphized mailer daemons hanging out someone walks up to one says a bit of nonsense and then the target empties his wallets, takes of his clothes, and gives everything he had to the person who just babbled at him and everyone else sitting around watching is going what the actual f*ck just happened?  Humans aren't quite so fragile as software, but they're also not the entire opposite of that.

Falling for a con is something that could happen to anyone.  Now, true, you might never fall for Wright but there is probably some other con that you could fall for. The only people who are even somewhat safe are people who both admit that they're at risk and have studied cons.  Upthread apogio express incredulity that anyone could be so audacious ("Can someone be so arrogant and stupid"?)-- and that sentiment is one of the ones conmen exploit: they actually make themselves look more unreasonable to make people doubt that anyone would tell a lie that big.

Gavin long criticized other Bitcoin contributors like Peter Todd and myself of being *too paranoid* and concerned about fringe vulnerabilities, that most of the time no one attacking, most of the time most people were nice, etc.  And most of the time he would be right. But only most.  And that's the issue with security: most of the time it's a waste of effort/time/money because most of the time you aren't being attacked.  But if you don't have enough...... watch out!  I don't say this to say his position is objectively wrong: if Gavin had been as paranoid as Peter Todd perhaps he would have never encouraged other people to contribute to Bitcoin and things would have developed far more slowly and it's not hard to make a case that early in Bitcoin's life that is exactly the attitude that was needed: after all Bitcoin was worth very little in the beginning, so there was little to protect.  Different perspectives have different costs and different benefits.  One of the costs of being less cynical is increased vulnerability to attacks like Wright's.

Given the politics at the time it's easy to see how Gavin probably had a particular vulnerability.  He was already somewhat ostracized from the tech community, his position in the blocksize war drama wasn't the leading one.  Then out of the blue "Satoshi" swings in on a vine to seize victory from the jaws of defeat.  It's a very human mistake to not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Gavin has suffered greatly for his error here.  And make no mistake, it was a serious one: many people trusted him to apply the kind of expert scrutiny that they couldn't apply themselves and he simply didn't.  Unfortunately, his mistake didn't just harm himself-- it greatly harmed a lot of other people (including people who lost money on BCH and BSV as a result as well as the people Wright has been suing) and that harm is continuing to this day which is why people are still unhappy with him for it.  If you look at the footage from the Norway trial Wright still leans heavily on Gavin's endorsement and current relative silence, he'll almost certainly do so again in the UK trial.  Gavin could still improve the situation but he chooses not to, presumably because he has reasoned that he's better off being additionally disrespected by the Bitcoin community than he is drawing Wrights ire.  (Something which is probably true, but is made less true by the public pressure).  So I think we don't have to adopt either of the extreme positions:  It's both an understandable error and it's also not unreasonable for people to blame him both for the original error and his handling subsequently (including today).

But the most important thing to take away from it is skepticism. You could fall for something like this or someone you trust and listen to could be falling for someone elses scam.

[BlackHatCoiner]

To cut GA some slack, back then, Wright had a lot of positive press and was often pictured as a humble, modest genius which kind of fit in with many people's expectations of the real-life Satoshi.

Anyone who claims he's Satoshi without providing cryptographic evidence is instantly pictured as a lying scum to me. I'd question anyone who claimed the same with cryptographic evidence, let alone without. Anyone who claimed to own the private key of the genesis block without publishing a signed message for everyone to see, would do even worse impression to me. Now add that this person had also told everyone that he lost access to his private keys, and requested from Gavin to see his "evidence" privately.

You either have an extremely naive Bitcoin developer, or a bribed one; honestly, I don't know what's worse, but in both cases he can't be trusted.

But the most important thing to take away from it is skepticism. You could fall for something like this or someone you trust and listen to could be falling for someone elses scam.

Could he be afraid to go out and admit the truth (that CSW is a liar) because he might get himself a lawsuit?

[gmaxwell]

Now add that this person had also told everyone that he lost access to his private keys

The lost access story came later.

Could he be afraid to go out and admit the truth (that CSW is a liar) because he might get himself a lawsuit?

From Craig?  It's a very realistic concern. OTOH, in his shoes I'd feel honor bound to do the right thing in spite of the risk.  That said, I'm saddled under a pair of bullshit lawsuits by Wright, which I guess shows the price of principle.  But if you're just going to let bullies determine your life why bother living at all?  What kind of message is someone lets themselves be cowed like that sending to their community, their children, and prospective bullies?

If you meant from other people-- I think not.  There is a big gap between a moral wrong and a legal one, his diligance failure violated the trust of others but it isn't like he had a formal duty.  If someone were going to start lobbing lawsuits there the media that promoted Wright would be more obvious targets. Of course, frivolous lawsuits can be brought at any time for any reason, but he doesn't need to admit an error there for other people to go after him.  Though keeping a low profile and not appearing to have any significant wealth is generally protective against frivolous lawsuits.  If he were really concerned there I'd expect him to have deleted his twitter and disappeared entirely.

[Wind_FURY]

To cut GA some slack, back then, Wright had a lot of positive press and was often pictured as a humble, modest genius which kind of fit in with many people's expectations of the real-life Satoshi. No one really knew what kind of psycho he would turn out to be.

It's funny how polarized the community is on this. On one hand you have people being extremely damning and just failing to comprehend the psychology of someone who was victimized by a conman making really strong assumptions that there was a big conspiracy, on the other hand you have people making all kinds of excuses.  Upthread someone linked to the archive with the email chain between Gavin and Wright.  I really recommend reading it.  In particular, it has Gavin pointing to reddit posts basically explaining Wright's fraud, in one message he even says that Craig is making himself sound like a fraud!  You simply cannot say that he had no warning.  And, in fact, Wright tried to get other people to witness for him like Andreas who were prudent enough to not put themselves into an easily compromised position.

I think the thread undermines both most of the apologia but also most of the conspiracy theories.

It's always the better path to give someone the benefit of the doubt, although I believe Gavin Andresen cannot redeem himself anymore after trying to co-opt the network through Bitcoin-XT and after vouching for a con-artist. It's obviously the same for Roger Ver, Jihan Wu, and it should be the same for Barry Silbert for leading the New York Agreement, which also tried to co-opt the network away from the Core Developers.

Gavin has suffered greatly for his error here.  Unfortunately, his mistake didn't just harm himself-- it greatly harmed a lot of other people (including people who lost money on BCH and BSV as a result as well as the people Wright has been suing) and that harm is continuing to this day which is why people are still unhappy with him for it.  If you look at the footage from the Norway trial Wright still leans heavily on Gavin's endorsement and current relative silence, he'll almost certainly do so again in the UK trial.  Gavin could still improve the situation but he chooses not to, presumably because he has reasoned that he's better off being additionally disrespected by the Bitcoin community than he is drawing Wrights ire.  (Something which is probably true, but is made less true by the public pressure).  So I think we don't have to adopt either of the extreme positions:  It's both an understandable error and it's also not unreasonable for people to blame him both for the original error and his handling subsequently (including today).

How high would be the probability that Gavin Andresen was bribed by Craig Wright? Perhaps he was, but I refuse to believe that a person like him would easily be persuaded by money.

[BlackHatCoiner]

From Craig?

Yes.

But if you're just going to let bullies determine your life why bother living at all?

I mean, absolutely correct. In addition, you guys are more or less the inventors of Bitcoin. Satoshi (the real one) trusted Gavin the project. He was entitled as the main Bitcoin maintainer for a while, and he was chief scientist of the Bitcoin Foundation (which was to promote Bitcoin back in 2012). If I were him, I'd feel pissed off if someone (who I would knew is a liar, don't fool ourselves) confidently going out and suing the people I'd worked with, attempting to steal coins he doesn't own via the court, and ruin Bitcoin development's reputation in general.

I have read he left the project in 2014, so I guess you weren't going well together. Hardforks and the like. I can't have a complete opinion on this matter, as I wasn't into Bitcoin around then.

[apogio]

Satoshi (the real one) trusted Gavin the project.

I have asked before, but I will ask again, in case anyone knows. Did CSW provide evidence that he was talking to Gavin via email, or at least, anything that can prove that he gave him the project?

If CSW = Satoshi, then CSW was the guy who was talking to Gavin via email and gave him the project.

[gmaxwell]

How high would be the probability that Gavin Andresen was bribed by Craig Wright?

The now published discussion isn't very consistent with that theory.  It's not impossible that there were messages removed or agreements made over the phone or in person, but I think it's an excessively powerful explanation.

The main arguments for it is that it's just so outrageous to imagine he actually believed Wright, but that really is the power of conmen.  As of recently we do know that that group has offered substantial payments (e.g. reporting that a KC was offered $100 million to secure Wright a victory) but if some agreement like that were to have existed there are reasonable odds that it would have been indicated by their private communication and it simply isn't there.

I think someone who wasn't paranoid enough falling for a skilled con would be explanation enough, but we also have the background bitcoin drama to supercharge the situation.  And the continued position is explainable because Wright has legitimately frightened many people (you don't exactly see most of the Bitcoin media seriously covering this nonsense).  All of those points are indisputable. No more explanation is required.

Is it impossible for there to have been greater plots?  No. But there is no end to the speculation-- why assume a bribe when it could have been a sekret deep state black operation to embarass bitcoin? Maybe space aliens don't want us to have P2P money. etc.  We should use the simplest explanation that explains the facts, failing to do so is among the errors people who still believe Wright are themselves making.

I have asked before, but I will ask again, in case anyone knows. Did CSW provide evidence that he was talking to Gavin via email, or at least, anything that can prove that he gave him the project?

He didn't.  You can read Gavin's email discussions with Wright in the archive linked above.

In fact, it's pretty clear today that Wright was not aware of Gavin's discussions with Satoshi.  OTOH, Gavin's discussions with Satoshi weren't actually all that extensive, at least outside of highly to-the-point functional discussions. Satoshi didn't share anything really in the way of personal opinions. Gavin tried to pry a little into Satoshi's identity and Satoshi ignored it.  Ironically Gavin may have perceived a similarity between Satoshi's privacy protection and Wright's evasion-- but Satoshi wasn't being evasive, Gavin was being intrusive.  With Wright the situation was flipped, he was trying to establish his identity and probing questions would have been entitled to straight answers.

In Gavin's email dialog with Wright Gavin didn't challenge Wright's knowledge of Bitcoin in any meaningful way, it's a real shame because any detailed discussion about Bitcoin's programming should have exposed Wright or at least forced him to start suggesting the parts Gavin discussed with him were written by other people.  It's telling that Roger Ver-- who also fell for Wright for a while-- ultimately saw the light when he realized that Wright didn't know Bitcoin addresses had a checksum.  Roger's not an entirely non-technical guy but he's not a serious programmer... but given enough exposure to Wright they eventually stumbled into a subject where Roger knew enough to see through him.

Aside, "gave him the project" is perhaps a bit of an overstatement.  Satoshi gave a number of people access, including Gavin, and then quietly stepped back.  Satoshi's last message to Gavin was wagging is finger at him telling him to give more credit to the other contributors.  It's more accurate to say that Satoshi handed bitcoin over to public collaboration which at the time was being substantially organized by Gavin but the whole point of Bitcoin really depends on there being no one ultimately controlling it. Not even Satoshi.

[o_e_l_e_o]

From Craig?  It's a very realistic concern. OTOH, in his shoes I'd feel honor bound to do the right thing in spite of the risk.

Here's a question, and much like Satoshi I am not a lawyer:

When Gavin was being deposed during the Kleiman trial back in 2020, and therefore both under oath and permitted to break his NDA if required, could he not have said at some point during the deposition "I do not believe CSW is Satoshi" and be protected from any future frivolous retaliation from CSW?

I think the closest he got during the deposition was when he said "Yeah, I've learned things after that give me doubts", referring to things he had learned since the "signing session" which make him now doubt that CSW is Satoshi.

[apogio]

He didn't.  You can read Gavin's email discussions with Wright in the archive linked above.

In fact, it's pretty clear today that Wright was not aware of Gavin's discussions with Satoshi.

In Gavin's email dialog with Wright Gavin didn't challenge Wright's knowledge of Bitcoin in any meaningful way, it's a real shame because any detailed discussion about Bitcoin's programming should have exposed Wright or at least forced him to start suggesting the parts Gavin discussed with him were written by other people.  It's telling that Roger Ver-- who also fell for Wright for a while-- ultimately saw the light when he realized that Wright didn't know Bitcoin addresses had a checksum.  Roger's not an entirely non-technical guy but he's not a serious programmer... but given enough exposure to Wright they eventually stumbled into a subject where Roger knew enough to see through him.

Exactly. I think this can also be a contributing factor to the evidence against CSW claims that he is Satoshi. I mean, I can imagine that writing Bitcoin's code is something that the original developer would remember. Personally, I work as a dev and I can remember lots of code things I 've written in the past 5 years. At least I can easily understand it and why I wrote it - and realise the mistakes I have made. But if I had written something so important like Bitcoin, and having been engaged for multiple years in this project, I would definetely remember it and of course, I would definetely understand every single aspect of it. How fees work, how keys and addresses work, how signatures work, how mining works etc.

[gmaxwell]

When Gavin was being deposed during the Kleiman trial back in 2020, and therefore both under oath and permitted to break his NDA if required, could he not have said at some point during the deposition "I do not believe CSW is Satoshi" and be protected from any future frivolous retaliation from CSW?

I think the closest he got during the deposition was when he said "Yeah, I've learned things after that give me doubts", referring to things he had learned since the "signing session" which make him now doubt that CSW is Satoshi.

Indeed, he was pretty wishy washy in the deposition.

So he would have been protected from being accused of breaching an NDA but that doesn't protect you from someone's ire.  Example, when Wright later sued 'developers' half the defendants hadn't worked on Bitcoin in years (myself included).  Wright just as well could have included Gavin in that lawsuit-- there would be more logic for including Gavin than Eric Lombrozo or Peter Todd (for example)-- at least Gavin had been a committer at one point.   Wright is willing to lie so if he wants to target you he can make something up, and that's just assuming his retaliation would come in the form of a lawsuit and not some other form.  Wright's already willing to ignore the law, ignore ethical behavior, so what might he do if you become a target of his?

Right now Gavin is protected from Wright: other than nChain insiders and Wright's wife no one else is better positioned to mess up Wright's plans.  At any point Gavin could go review all the evidence made public since the ceremony and put out a statement explaining how confident he is that Wright tricked him (which I'm sure he would be if he reviewed the stuff Wright has been putting out), detailed how he was probably tricked, etc.  It would be a mortal wound to Wright's schemes, might even stop him completely if it caused Ayre to realize he was had.  I think that the only reason it wouldn't stop Ayre entirely is that Ayre might dismiss him as having been bribed, especially since Ayre clearly will bribe and coerce people (see the leaked emails re: Lynn Wright).  I'm sure this leverage protect Gavin a lot, but it comes at a cost to everyone else who doesn't benefit from the protection, would really benefit from the truth, and is exposed in part because that endorsement gave Wright an incredible credibility boost.  But if Gavin does too much to undermine Wright then then that protection is gone.

[franky1]

Was Gavin Andresen really bribed, or is that just a presumption from some people? "Tin-foil hats on", yes it's very possible, BUT is there confirmation that he was bribed?

Merely an assumption I have made. We obviously don't have evidence when bribing happens, but it seems extremely likely to be the case here, IMO.

I mean, we have a Bitcoin developer who is known to having technical expertise with Bitcoin in general, publicly stating he thinks CSW could be Satoshi, because... He was invited in his place to get shown cryptographic evidence privately from altered software? Didn't it cross his mind to request digital signature over the Internet? What kind of desire to do this privately is that, if Craig doesn't mind Gavin publicly stating he was shown cryptographic evidence? Can the rest of us confirm? Wild conspiracy, but they might have exchanged more than "digital signatures".  

gavins main point of initial approval. was that CSW read the public messages of satoshi and the emails and then wrote emails to gavin in that satoshi style mentioning things mentioned in early satoshi messages. which intrigued gavins curiosity

Andresen had been in touch with Satoshi in the early days and would have records of their conversations. He would presumably be able to ask Wright questions that only Satoshi could answer. In December, after Wired published the story about Wright possibly being Satoshi, Andresen told the magazine he’d never heard of Craig Wright. But he began to believe in Wright once he started corresponding with him by email in early April. At one point, Wright sent him two emails, one written in his own Craig Wright way, and another one, with essentially the same content, written as Satoshi would have written it. They discussed maths and the history of the invention and the problems it had faced.

^ gavin also tweeted/blogged the same sentiments

Within a week, Andresen was sufficiently convinced to get on a plane to London. He was ready to see Wright sign a message to him using the original Satoshi cryptographic keys.

^gavin revealed they signed NDA and paid for gavins time and costs for the session

gavin was invited to do the "signing proof" engagement but the session the proof was not for bitcoiners it was for CSW's investors to see someone approve CSW. with all the NDA's there is always some compensation arrangement to stay quiet. no one ever signs something just offering threats if you speak, because they just wont get involved in the first place. you only get involved if there is some payment to accept the terms

Andresen crossed the Atlantic overnight, arriving at the Covent Garden Hotel at 11 a.m. on 7 April. He went to his room – which had been booked, as had his flight, by nCrypt –
..
MacGregor and Matthews turned up. ‘They gave me a lot of the background and explained their involvement,’ Andresen told me. When Wright turned up at the hotel, Andresen found it easy to talk to him, ‘although I was so jet-lagged at one point,’ he wrote, ‘I had to stop him from diving deep into a mathematical proof he’d worked out related to how blocks are validated in bitcoin.’
Matthews had booked a conference room in the basement, and MacGregor could see that Wright was very emotional when he entered the room. ‘He knew this was it,’ MacGregor said to me. ‘It’s one thing to prove his identity to you and me, but the bitcoin community is something else. He knew that they would believe Gavin. He knew this was it – that he would have no plausible deniability after he’d talked to Gavin and shown him the keys.’ Before the meeting in the basement properly started, Andresen said to MacGregor – as he said to me – that some of the phrases Wright had used in their email exchange had been ‘familiar’ to him; he sounded like the Satoshi he had been in contact with before. Andresen asked MacGregor and Matthews a few questions about what nCrypt hoped to achieve with this in the future. They didn’t go into detail about the company’s business plans, but they spoke about the future of bitcoin and alternative projects. Wright and Andresen quickly started scribbling on pieces of paper.

so as you can see the signing session was not about proving to the community but to prove to ncrypt investors MacGregor and Matthews
which.. invested $15m into CSW to set up in london, with the proof to gain ncrypts confidence would release further money to CSW
whereby matthews and macgregor paid gavin for his time and costs
'scribling on pieces of paper' = more NDA's wrote to benefit matthews and macgregor
gavin in other communications admitted there were several NDA signing sessions before during and after the 'proof' session

Within a few months, according to evidence later given to me by Matthews and MacGregor, the deal would cost MacGregor’s company $15 million. ‘That’s right,’ Matthews said in February this year. ‘When we signed the deal, $1.5 million was given to Wright’s lawyers. But my main job was to set up an engagement with the new lawyers … and transfer Wright’s intellectual property to nCrypt’ – a newly formed subsidiary of nTrust. ‘The deal had the following components: clear the outstanding debts that were preventing Wright’s business from getting back on its feet, and work with the new lawyers on getting the agreements in place for the transfer of any non-corporate intellectual property, and work with the lawyers to get Craig’s story rights.’ From that point on, the ‘Satoshi revelation’ would be part of the deal. ‘It was the cornerstone of the commercialisation plan,’ Matthews said, ‘with about ten million sunk into the Australian debts and setting up in London.’

all of this drama is to fake proof. to the pretend to offer "rights" of satoshi to his investors
book rights: O’Hagan
movie rights: ayres and stevens
IP rights mathews and macgregor

[Isuru_]

The defection of Craig Wright's team is a major setback for his claims to be Satoshi Nakamoto. This comes at a time when he is already facing significant legal challenges. It remains to be seen whether he will be able to maintain his credibility in the face of this new evidence.

Wright has been involved in a number of lawsuits related to his Bitcoin claims. He has also been accused of plagiarizing the work of others. In 2019, he was sued by Dave Kleiman, the estate of his former business partner. The lawsuit alleged that Wright had stolen billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin from Kleiman.

In January 2023, a Florida jury found in favor of Kleiman's estate, awarding them $100 million in damages. Wright has appealed the verdict.

What about his next steps 

[gmaxwell]

and then wrote emails to gavin in that satoshi style mentioning things mentioned in early satoshi messages.

Some people thought that-- and indeed Gavin implied it--, but we now have Gavin's communication w/ Wright (it was made public as a result of the Norway trial).  I don't think it supports that description.

At one point, Wright sent him two emails, one written in his own Craig Wright way, and another one, with essentially the same content, written as Satoshi would have written it.
 

Read the messages yourself and see if you agree with that description.

Wright has appealed the verdict.

No he didn't. To appeal he would have had to post the >$100 million (actually over $140 million due to interest).  The *estate* appealed.

[apogio]

I may sound silly but, wouldn't it be great if satoshi appeared, just once, to sign a message saying that CSW is fraud? Of course the main point behind this action would be to save Core Devs from paying absurd money in legal expenses

[pawel7777]

I may sound silly but, wouldn't it be great if satoshi appeared, just once, to sign a message saying that CSW is fraud? Of course the main point behind this action would be to save Core Devs from paying absurd money in legal expenses

Nah. I don't think that would really make much difference in terms of CSW's ability to drag people through the courts. It would be a solid proof for the community (not that we really need it) and maybe it could be used in a court as a proof, but they'd still have to go through trials and therefore incur legal costs.
And of course, crashing the market would be an undesirable side effect.

[apogio]

And of course, crashing the market would be an undesirable side effect.

What do you mean by that? How would the market crash?

[BlackHatCoiner]

I may sound silly but, wouldn't it be great if satoshi appeared, just once, to sign a message saying that CSW is fraud? Of course the main point behind this action would be to save Core Devs from paying absurd money in legal expenses

It wouldn't help, because Craig has made it abundantly clear "his" keys were compromised. So, essentially, he's trying to nullify the validity of any real Satoshi evidence, as proving you're Satoshi requires cryptographic proof, and he's revoked their keys with the excuse they're compromised.

But, he does have claimed ownership of addresses which were funded in the early days. If that doesn't serve as evidence he's a fraud, I don't know what does.  

Code:

"Craig Steven Wright is a liar and a fraud. He doesn't have the keys used to sign this message.

The Lightning Network is a significant achievement. However, we need to continue work on improving on-chain capacity.

Unfortunately, the solution is not to just change a constant in the code or to allow powerful participants to force out others.

We are all Satoshi"



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[apogio]

But, he does have claimed ownership of addresses which were funded in the early days. If that doesn't serve as evidence he's a fraud, I don't know what does.  

Code:

"Craig Steven Wright is a liar and a fraud. He doesn't have the keys used to sign this message.

The Lightning Network is a significant achievement. However, we need to continue work on improving on-chain capacity.

Unfortunately, the solution is not to just change a constant in the code or to allow powerful participants to force out others.

We are all Satoshi"



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Why the hell can't this be used as strong evidence? I mean what else is needed? Anyway...

[Doan9269]

And of course, crashing the market would be an undesirable side effect.

What do you mean by that? How would the market crash?

I guess from his context, what he meant was the market bear and not that the bitcoin network crashing as the thought might have shown in his expression, though we all have different ways of expressing ourselves but crashing in this regard could either mean the price crashing or the network completely going down crashing, which i believe that was not his intention on that.

As for Craig Wright and his fake teams, the table is turning around already by the table shaker, preys are now hunting after their hunter, law of karma.

[apogio]

Aside from what other member already said, each Satoshi action in public could be used to de-anonymize Satoshi.

Yeah you have a strong point here. Although satoshi knows well how to hide.

I also don't understand. If such action could affect the market, what might happen is further BSV crash.

Anyway, I don't see how this action could affect bitcoins price. But it's such an unrealistic scenario, so ...

[o_e_l_e_o]

Many people operate under the mistaken premise that any coins which have not moved in x number of years are permanently lost, and therefore removed from the supply. Many people also assume that Satoshi owns in excess of 1 million bitcoin. A message signed from the genesis block public key would lead many people to realize that assuming coins are lost with zero proof is a mistake, and worry that in excess of a million coins could be about to be sold, leading to them selling their own coins for fear of the price falling. I don't agree with this logic, but many people do.

I believe this is what pawel is referring to above.

[apogio]

Many people operate under the mistaken premise that any coins which have not moved in x number of years are permanently lost, and therefore removed from the supply. Many people also assume that Satoshi owns in excess of 1 million bitcoin. A message signed from the genesis block public key would lead many people to realize that assuming coins are lost with zero proof is a mistake, and worry that in excess of a million coins could be about to be sold, leading to them selling their own coins for fear of the price falling. I don't agree with this logic, but many people do.

I believe this is what pawel is referring to above.

I don't think so. Permanently lost means permanently lost. As long as there is a possibility higher than 0 to retrieve the PK that derives those addresses, then they are not permanently lost, if we wanna be accurate

[pawel7777]

Many people operate under the mistaken premise that any coins which have not moved in x number of years are permanently lost, and therefore removed from the supply. Many people also assume that Satoshi owns in excess of 1 million bitcoin. A message signed from the genesis block public key would lead many people to realize that assuming coins are lost with zero proof is a mistake, and worry that in excess of a million coins could be about to be sold, leading to them selling their own coins for fear of the price falling. I don't agree with this logic, but many people do.

I believe this is what pawel is referring to above.

Precisely. BTC price is decided by buy and sell orders. If, all of a sudden, a risk appears that an additional 1 million bitcoins can be dumped on the market, that would cause a panic.
And if you're money motivated, you not only have to consider what is likely to happen, but also what other traders think would happen and how will they react.

However, on second thought, I think that such event would reflect negatively on the price, but it wouldn't necessarily trigger a proper crash. After all, if someone had access to that 1 mil btc and didn't sell for all those years, what is the likelihood of them selling now all at once?

[o_e_l_e_o]

I don't think so. Permanently lost means permanently lost. As long as there is a possibility higher than 0 to retrieve the PK that derives those addresses, then they are not permanently lost, if we wanna be accurate

Correct. The number of provably lost bitcoins, such as those sent to OP_RETURN outputs, those sent to invalid locking scripts, those which miners failed to claim in the first place, etc., is very small, and numbers around 2,828 BTC. But we frequently see the figure of around 4 million "lost" bitcoin be thrown around on this forum, on Reddit, on Twitter, on various crypto blogs and clickbait sites, and so on. It is a widely held belief, even if it is completely incorrect.

And so I have no doubt that if a signed message appeared from the genesis block public key which included a recent date, lots of people would panic sell and the price would indeed fall.

[apogio]

And so I have no doubt that if a signed message appeared from the genesis block public key which included a recent date, lots of people would panic sell and the price would indeed fall.

Do you really think that? I doubt.

Bitcoin has a total supply of 21M BTC. Let's assume there are 4M BTC that can be unlocked by "lost / forgotten" private keys. Let's also assume that suddenly someone claims ownership of all those coins (not just the 1M that is assumed to belong to Satoshi)

What difference does it make to the average BTC owner? My question is genuine.

Let me express my thoughts on this.

If someone owned 4M BTC, I wouldn't even care. Bitcoin works with PoW so it doesn't matter how many coins you own, only how much energy you use, which is attached to how much computing power you have. So I don't care.

If they sold all of that BTC, it would cause a price collapse for BTC. In that case I would run as fast as possible to buy as much as I can, because the total supply will never change!

In fact, those two arguments above is EXACTLY why Bitcoin is valuable to me.

[Z-tight]

What difference does it make to the average BTC owner? My question is genuine.

It makes no difference to a Bitcoiner who understands the market and who knows what they are doing, take note that there are a lot of weak hands in the market who only think profit all the time, they sell whenever there is fud and a possibility of the price falling and they fomo buy when BTC price is rising, and make no mistake, the number who do this are so much.

People even react to fud and panic-sell for events of a lesser degree, some even panic and sell if some public figure spreads fud in the internet, surely they'll sell if they know millions of coins they thought was a donation to the network is now available to be spent, and they could send the price crashing down temporarily.

[franky1]

And so I have no doubt that if a signed message appeared from the genesis block public key which included a recent date, lots of people would panic sell and the price would indeed fall.

Do you really think that? I doubt.

Bitcoin has a total supply of 21M BTC. Let's assume there are 4M BTC that can be unlocked by "lost / forgotten" private keys. Let's also assume that suddenly someone claims ownership of all those coins (not just the 1M that is assumed to belong to Satoshi)

What difference does it make to the average BTC owner? My question is genuine.

Let me express my thoughts on this.

If someone owned 4M BTC, I wouldn't even care. Bitcoin works with PoW so it doesn't matter how many coins you own, only how much energy you use, which is attached to how much computing power you have. So I don't care.

If they sold all of that BTC, it would cause a price collapse for BTC. In that case I would run as fast as possible to buy as much as I can, because the total supply will never change!

In fact, those two arguments above is EXACTLY why Bitcoin is valuable to me.

id be more worried about microstrategy/blackrock/grayscale doing a mass sell off
each of their keys has thousands of coin per key..
the real satoshi had separate key per 50btc reward. meaning if someone brute forced a key, its only 50btc at market risk..
same goes for the supposed 4m lost, there are not hoarded on a single key..
 however its the top 5 "bitcoin richlist" people should be wary of, more so than the thousands of addresses of smaller amounts

in short, dont expect the 'lost coins' spread over thousands of addresses to cause a dump.. even if a significant address gets recently signed.
satoshis 18btc in the well known address (satoshi->hal interactions), wont cause market chaos

[apogio]

id be more worried about microstrategy/blackrock/grayscale doing a mass sell off
each of their keys has thousands of coin per key..
the real satoshi had separate key per 50btc. meaning if someone brute forced a key, its the top 5 "bitcoin richlist" people should be wary of, more so than the thousands of addresses of smaller amounts

I think binance also holds huge amounts of BTC

It makes no difference to a Bitcoiner who understands the market and who knows what they are doing, take note that there are a lot of weak hands in the market who only think profit all the time, they sell whenever there is fud and a possibility of the price falling and they fomo buy when BTC price is rising, and make no mistake, the number who do this are so much.

People even react to fud and panic-sell for events of a lesser degree, some even panic and sell if some public figure spreads fud in the internet, surely they'll sell if they know millions of coins they thought was a donation to the network is now available to be spent, and they could send the price crashing down temporarily.

Exactly. People don't know what they buy. That's obvious.

[BlackHatCoiner]

What difference does it make to the average BTC owner? My question is genuine.

I mean, it will neither matter to the average Bitcoin user, but let's not forget that the average user follows Twitter accounts (some of which are "whale alert bots"), reads crypto articles and the like. Hell, some even gamble based on "blockchain analysis". It wouldn't impress me if there was suddenly more trading volume because of the information that there is someone with that pile of cash. (who isn't known to be selling coins)

I'd agree, though, that Satoshi appearing out of nowhere selling all his coins would be a little weird. Not concerning necessarily, but surely weird.

[Z-tight]

however its the top 5 "bitcoin richlist" people should be wary of, more so than the thousands of addresses of smaller amounts

That is what it is and i don't think people should be wary of any of these particular scenarios, you can't stop people from buying BTC's, neither can you stop them from selling, so there should be no need to worry over what you cannot control. People react to too many events that happen in the network, especially when it has to do with coins moving or being sold, as a bitcoiner you have to accept that there are a lot of weak hands and manipulators in the network, and they can really influence the price; you should ignore it all when such movements are happening if you truly believe in BTC.

[AmoreJaz]

What difference does it make to the average BTC owner? My question is genuine.

I mean, it will neither matter to the average Bitcoin user, but let's not forget that the average user follows Twitter accounts (some of which are "whale alert bots"), reads crypto articles and the like. Hell, some even gamble based on "blockchain analysis". It wouldn't impress me if there was suddenly more trading volume because of the information that there is someone with that pile of cash. (who isn't known to be selling coins)

I'd agree, though, that Satoshi appearing out of nowhere selling all his coins would be a little weird. Not concerning necessarily, but surely weird.

i don't think that would happen though. in any case, what we can do in this market is just keep ourself updated and educate what's going on. if we are moving our funds blindly, then no one is to blame but ourself if we failed with our action.
 we are all observers in this market, and we react depending on what we think will favour our stash. there may be fomo, fud or whatever it is. but it all boils down to the fact that we make decisions depending if it will benefit our vaults.

[o_e_l_e_o]

COPA have filed a document containing their analysis of CSW's "evidence", with explanations of why almost everything he submitted is a blatant forgery.

You can find the document here: https://bitcoindefense.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/AmendedPOCandSchedule.pdf

Here are just a couple of my favorite parts:

2. The document has been backdated. The document contains hidden, embedded Grammarly timestamps indicating its true date to be later than 18 August 2019 at 9:10am (UTC). [PM25 at 8-13]

3. Searching online revealed the presence of a very similar document uploaded by Dr Wright to the website SSRN which was created just a few hours after the Grammarly timestamp of ID_000199, on the same date 18 August 2019. That uploaded document (the “SSRN Upload”) was created with software that did not yet exist in 2007. [PM25 at 40-46]

So not only is CSW completely unaware that computer files contain metadata which include such information as to when they were created and modified, but he also used software which didn't exist at the time he is claiming to have written these documents. Even his forgeries are utterly incompetent. Plenty more of the same sort of thing over a variety of his other documents:

3. The document contains embedded references to fonts including Calibri Light and Nirmala UI [PM25 at 20]. Those fonts were not yet published in 2008 [Madden Report at 165]. Further, the designers of those fonts have given evidence relied on by COPA in these proceedings that the fonts were not yet conceived of or designed by the purported date of this document.

3. Equations within ID_000227 were created with MathType software v6.9, a version dating from February 2013 which did not exist in 2008. [PM40 at 32, 42]

5. The hidden embedded text within the document includes references to a web page URL which did not exist until on or after 11 April 2019. [PM26 at 21]

But then it seems at some point CSW does become aware of metadata, and thinks that changing his computer clock will be enough to fool it:

4. ID_000504 records an impossible edit time in excess of 41 days. In percentage terms, the recorded MS Word Edit Time equates to more than 100% of the time difference between the Created and Last Saved dates. This is consistent with the use of clock manipulation techniques. [PM28 at 5-6]

4. The document contains an impossible edit time of minus 13 years, 7 months and 4 days [PM9 at 70].

There is plenty of more evidence if you want to read through it, from CSW referencing events which hadn't happened yet, sending emails from domains he hadn't registered yet, linking to websites which didn't exist yet, and more. COPA even got the manufacturer of a physical notepad that CSW supposedly hand wrote notes on to provide evidence that they did not manufacture that notepad at the time CSW claims he used it.

[joker_josue]

Another funny thing is the timeline he establishes about the “Original Bitcoin”.

It says that BTC deviated from the original white paper in 2017 and BCH was created.
Then it says that BCH deviated from the original white paper in 2018, and then the current BSV emerged, which is the original.

In short, for 10 years he has been diverted from his alleged creation. He's very bad at holding things back. 


https://bitcoinsv.com/ ^{(If possible, avoid touching this link, Craig "Faketoshi" Wright could accuse you of something!)}

[o_e_l_e_o]

-snip-

Funny you should mention that, since the BCash fork is also used to prove yet another back dated forgery in CSW's documents:

4. The hidden, embedded content of previous edits additionally refers to the fork between BTC and BCH, two versions of Bitcoin, an event which took place in 2017. [PM34 at 25-26]

And here's another great part of COPA's submission:

g. Following, and in evident response to, the service of the Madden Report, Dr Wright has acted as follows:

i. He has sought to disclaim responsibility for the documents previously designated by him as Reliance Documents, including through his provision of extended chain of custody information (information he had previously refused to supply even in more basic form) in which he has for the first time suggested that the documents were handled by many unidentified further persons. He has thus sought to distance himself from documents only once their veracity has been called into question.

...

iii. He has sought to replace his Reliance Documents with versions he has supposedly “discovered” in hard drives and which he claims to be preferable versions.

How convenient for CSW! As soon as COPA revealed that the documents he's been using in multiple trials over multiple years are complete forgeries, he discovered a few old hard drives containing better copies! What a coincidence! And what bad luck for CSW that he just can't seem to find a few old hard drives containing Satoshi's private keys.