Wasabi Wallet - Total Privacy For Bitcoin

[PrivacyG]

I'm surprised you didn't notice that o_e_l_e_o partnered with a blockchain surveillance company:

You still did not prove your claim that o_e_l_e_o stole data of innocent people which I was asking you to,

o_e_l_e_o's acts were inhumane, did you forget that he joined satoshi's forum to steal money and data of innocent people?

Where is the proof?

[Kruw]

You still did not prove your claim that o_e_l_e_o stole data of innocent people which I was asking you to,

Where is the proof?

As I said before, I posted all the proof in this thread, feel free to read it and reply directly there: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5482198

[JollyGood]

Whether any other forum member or ex-member promoted a blockchain surveillance company (or partnered with them) is not really an issue in this thread. You are the OP that created this thread to promote Wasabi Wallet and you were promoting them while they were justifying using blockchain analysis.

I am surprised you forgot that it was you that was happy to partner with Wasabi Wallet and a blockchain analysis company in order for their users to have their transactions analysed (and literally surveilled).

Why did you promote and support blockchain analysis through Wasabi Wallet?

I'm surprised you didn't notice that o_e_l_e_o partnered with a blockchain surveillance company:

[Kruw]

Whether any other forum member or ex-member promoted a blockchain surveillance company (or partnered with them) is not really an issue in this thread. You are the OP that created this thread to promote Wasabi Wallet and you were promoting them while they were justifying using blockchain analysis.

I am surprised you forgot that it was you that was happy to partner with Wasabi Wallet and a blockchain analysis company in order for their users to have their transactions analysed (and literally surveilled).

Why did you promote and support blockchain analysis through Wasabi Wallet?

I don't support blockchain analysis and never have. I acknowledge that blockchain analysis is extremely easy, hence, the necessity of privacy tools such as Wasabi Wallet.

[JollyGood]

You seem to have forgotten you promoted and propagated the use of Wasabi Wallet while they updated their terms and conditions to include the use of at least one blockchain analysis company. Instead of jumping ship when they quietly slipped in the blockchain surveillance caveat, you stayed with the Contributor to Wasabi Wallet tag because you wanted to.

Where were your morals and ethics when they would really have mattered? You did not take a stand against blockchain analysis at that time when it was important to demonstrate leadership therefore you have no right to attack others just because you think they did not take a stand.

I don't support blockchain analysis and never have. I acknowledge that blockchain analysis is extremely easy, hence, the necessity of privacy tools such as Wasabi Wallet.

[Kruw]

You promoted and propagated the use of Wasabi Wallet while they updated their terms and conditions to include the use of at least one blockchain analysis company. Instead of jumping ship when they quietly slipped in the blockchain surveillance caveat, you stayed with the Contributor to Wasabi Wallet tag because you wanted to. Where were your morals and ethics when they would really have mattered? You did not take a stand against blockchain analysis at that time when it was important to demonstrate leadership therefore you have no right to attack others just because you think they did not take a stand.

I already addressed this:

You are using the terms "partnership" and "cooperation" to describe a relationship between a customer and a business, which is misleading.  There are companies whose business model involves aggregating reports of coins being stolen, and zkSNACKs buys those reports in order to avoid accepting those stolen coins.  If zkSNACKs were to buy a McDonald's hamburger, that does not mean "zkSNACKs is partnering with McDonald's".

If you want to know what sort of cooperation and partnerships zkSNACKs is involved with, here's a short list:

- $2,500 monthly donation to the Tor project (https://zksnacks.com/)
- 1 BTC donation to the Human Rights Foundation Bitcoin Development Fund (https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2020/06/25/summer-2020-is-funding-season-for-open-source-bitcoin-development/)
- .86 BTC donation (along with Bull Bitcoin) to Bitcoin Knots developer Luke Dashjr (https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/bitcoin-knots-donation/)
- 1.11 BTC grant for privacy research on the Lightning Network (https://lightningprivacy.com)
- 3.4 million sats (so far) to the best bruteforcer in the community (https://www.huntingsats.com/)
- Sponsorships of Bitcoin educational podcasts such as What Bitcoin Did, Bitcoin Takeover, and What Is Money?
- Sponsorships of Bitcoin events such as BTCPrague, Bitcoin Amsterdam, Baltic Honeybadger (and others I'm sure I'm missing)

zkSNACKs made Wasabi completely open source software, so I insisted that anyone who opposed their blacklisting policy run their own coordinator and followed through by running my own:

Kruw from a few months ago would of called me a big time Scammer had I ran my own Uncensored Coordinator.

You're a liar. I couldn't have been more insistent that people run their own coordinators:

You can use any coordinator with Wasabi, including your own.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62810015#msg62810015

Since you already know you can run a Wasabi coinjoin coordinator and there's nothing zkSNACKs can do to stop you since they made their code open source, then why did you make this petition?  Why aren't you just running your own Wasabi coinjoin coordinator instead?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62811294#msg62811294

Since the coordinator code is all open source, you get to decide your own criteria yourself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62823189#msg62823189

Being open source means you can run your own coordinator.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62823635#msg62823635

Open source solves your problem which is why I keep suggesting it.  If your notes were censored by a Nostr relay, then I would tell you the same thing:  Run your own relay.  Your obsession about the reasons why some other Nostr relay isn't storing your notes is no longer your problem and not really interesting in the first place.  I do the same thing when opening Lightning channels:  Attempt a new peer if I am rejected by my first choice.  I don't open a petition against Lightning software development companies because they don't want to accept my channel, I can use simply use their software to connect to any node.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62823909#msg62823909

Why haven't you set up your own WabiSabi coinjoin coordinator yet?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62830686#msg62830686

BlackHatCoiner, why haven't you set up a WabiSabi coordinator yet?  Since no one on this thread is coordinating coinjoins themselves, it's proof that all the petitioners don't actually want to circumvent coinjoin censorship, they just want to harm the reputation of open source software.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62832629#msg62832629

Why would you participate in a petition to have open source privacy software removed from Bitcointalk since you can solve any problems of arbitrary censorship by running your own coordinator?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62835413#msg62835413

Stop doubting, start running: https://i.imgur.com/dA1YkUp.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62838641#msg62838641

Copy and paste zkSNACKs' open source coordinator code.  They literally did all the work for you, their business can be yours with CTRL + C, and instead, the losers on this thread are instructing people not to use Wasabi at all.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62845744#msg62845744

Go to your node and check the "Enable Coordinator" button on your BTCPay Server WabiSabi coinjoin plugin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg62846553#msg62846553

I am not being rhetorical, stop dodging the question over and over and over:  WHY DON'T YOU RUN YOUR OWN COORDINATOR?  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg63115339#msg63115339

You don't create coinjoins with yourself, other people can use your coordinator.  People are not stuck using the zkSNACKs coordinator.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457560.msg63116005#msg63116005

[Kruw]

Bumping this thread and reminding everyone not to fail in their duty to judge scammers:

The man who refuses to judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes and believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in the world.
...
There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist, who is willing to sit out the course of any battle, willing to cash in on the blood of the innocent or to crawl on his belly to the guilty, who dispenses justice by condemning both the robber and the robbed to jail, who solves conflicts by ordering the thinker and the fool to meet each other halfway.

[JollyGood]

You promoted and propagated the use of Wasabi Wallet while they updated their terms and conditions to include the use of at least one blockchain analysis company. Instead of jumping ship when they quietly slipped in the blockchain surveillance caveat, you stayed with the Contributor to Wasabi Wallet tag because you wanted to. Where were your morals and ethics when they would really have mattered? You did not take a stand against blockchain analysis at that time when it was important to demonstrate leadership therefore you have no right to attack others just because you think they did not take a stand.

I already addressed this:

And it was debunked:

You are using the terms "partnership" and "cooperation" to describe a relationship between a customer and a business, which is misleading.  There are companies whose business model involves aggregating reports of coins being stolen, and zkSNACKs buys those reports in order to avoid accepting those stolen coins.  If zkSNACKs were to buy a McDonald's hamburger, that does not mean "zkSNACKs is partnering with McDonald's".

Wasabi or zkSNACKs aren't private customers, though. They are businesses using the services of other business entities (blockchain analysis) whose version of the truth and estimation affects their own operations. In other words, you accept the decision of the blockchain analysis company's views regarding the cleanliness of my UTXOs. My participation in your coinjoins depends on the truth the blockchain analysis firm serves to you. I call that a partnership and cooperation. You are free to use any other terms you like.

How do you know stolen coins are getting rejected? You keep talking about open-source, where can we see these rules publicly?
According to whose criteria will certain UTXOs be added to whatever list is being used to determine naughtiness of coins?
Who made that list and in whose name? What entity or government agency is responsible to maintain it, make changes, and decide what's good and what's bad?
Who do I get in touch with if my UTXOs were rejected for reasons unknown to me?

Being in possession of stolen money or other means of payments doesn't necessarily make the owner a thief. You do understand that money and crypto circulate. As someone involved in the crypto business, you should know that those rules your blockchain partners present to you can't be applied to cash and fiat, otherwise a lot of it would have to be confiscated and taken out of circulation because many bills had contact or were used in illegal actions at one point in their past.

You seemed to have no problem back then and even now to the fact that zkSNACKs was using blockchain analysis without even explaining their process of implementation and what data was being retained by the third party analysis company.

Having said that, it raises a pertinent question. Are you making use of the same blockchain analysis for your Kruw coordinator as zkSNACKs did with their Wasabi Wallet?

[Kruw]

And it was debunked:

Keep going, I debunked the "debunking":

Since the coordinator code is all open source, you get to decide your own criteria yourself.

You seemed to have no problem back then and even now to the fact that zkSNACKs was using blockchain analysis without even explaining their process of implementation and what data was being retained by the third party analysis company.

Having said that, it raises a pertinent question. Are you making use of the same blockchain analysis for your Kruw coordinator as zkSNACKs did with their Wasabi Wallet?

No, I'm not buying any data from anyone.

[ABCbits]

It seems Wasabi blog is broken again. This time i received message "SSL handshake failed Error code 525" from CloudFlare. I've tried few browser and even asked archive.org to make an archive on https://web.archive.org/web/20241107102003/https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/ with same message.

[Kruw]

It seems Wasabi blog is broken again. This time i received message "SSL handshake failed Error code 525" from CloudFlare. I've tried few browser and even asked archive.org to make an archive on https://web.archive.org/web/20241107102003/https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/ with same message.

Thank you for reporting, I let the site maintainers know.

[JollyGood]

If you are not buying any data can you confirm if you are selling or sharing or giving away any data from users that use your coordinator? Specifically, are you harvesting any data from users that use your coordinator or are you backing up any information from when users visit your site including any coinjoin information such as addresses, amounts, date/time or even IP addresses etc?

No, I'm not buying any data from anyone.

[Kruw]

If you are not buying any data can you confirm if you are selling or sharing or giving away any data from users that use your coordinator?

Users never offer any data to coordinators, my answer doesn't matter since users verify this for themselves.

Specifically, are you harvesting any data from users that use your coordinator or are you backing up any information from when users visit your site including any coinjoin information such as addresses, amounts, date/time or even IP addresses etc

Of course, the date/time and amounts of coinjoin transactions are completely public, everyone who has a Bitcoin node is backing up this information. However, users never reveal their xpub address thanks to Wasabi's use of block filters, and never reveal their IP address thanks to all communications being performed over Tor by default. Here is the traffic analyzation for all connections to my domain:



If you want to discuss Wasabi generally, reply here, but if you want to discuss my coordinator service specifically, please do so on its own thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5498549

[Kruw]

Freesabi now tracks paid coordinators as well, they have rebranded to "Liquisabi" https://x.com/LiquiSabi

Liquisabi now has a web interface for their coinjoin explorer with a live feed of new transactions and a 30 day history chart: https://liquisabi.com

[Kruw]

On chain fees are below the monthly median, it's a great time to coinjoin if you haven't taken the opportunity yet!

[Wind_FURY]

On chain fees are below the monthly median, it's a great time to coinjoin if you haven't taken the opportunity yet!

I'm asking for a friend - If a person bought his/her Bitcoins from a centralized exchange, and he/she wants to maintain some privacy before sending his/her coins in cold-storage, are there some centralized coordinators that are currently filtering outputs to prevent their tainting their coordinator's pool?

He/she doesn't mind the filter, and he/she doesn't need complete privacy. He/she merely wants to disconnect his/her outputs from the centralized exchange.

[Kruw]

are there some centralized coordinators that are currently filtering outputs to prevent their tainting their coordinator's pool?

Ginger Wallet's coordinator has such a policy.

[Pmalek]

I'm asking for a friend - If a person bought his/her Bitcoins from a centralized exchange, and he/she wants to maintain some privacy before sending his/her coins in cold-storage, are there some centralized coordinators that are currently filtering outputs to prevent their tainting their coordinator's pool?

Even if you used a service that checks your coins for "taint" and "dirtiness" before allowing you to coinjoin, it's not going to trigger any red alarms if the bitcoin came from a known centralized exchange. However, when you do it the other way and coinjoin before depositing to a CEX, you might have to answer a few questions about the source of your coins, why you coinjoined them, etc. 

[Wind_FURY]

I'm asking for a friend - If a person bought his/her Bitcoins from a centralized exchange, and he/she wants to maintain some privacy before sending his/her coins in cold-storage, are there some centralized coordinators that are currently filtering outputs to prevent their tainting their coordinator's pool?

Even if you used a service that checks your coins for "taint" and "dirtiness" before allowing you to coinjoin, it's not going to trigger any red alarms if the bitcoin came from a known centralized exchange. However, when you do it the other way and coinjoin before depositing to a CEX, you might have to answer a few questions about the source of your coins, why you coinjoined them, etc. 

🤔

That's actually a good point. I'll just tell my friend to store them directly in cold-storage and worry about CoinJoins later if he decides to use his coins in those services that shouldn't he connected to his real identity.

Plus it's probably better to add a layer of privacy by first sending those outputs you want CoinJoined to yourself through the Lightning Network, no?

[Pmalek]

Plus it's probably better to add a layer of privacy by first sending those outputs you want CoinJoined to yourself through the Lightning Network, no?

That's one way of doing it. You can also opt to go the Monero way and avoid coinjoining altogether. If you have someone interested in swapping their monero for your bitcoin or a service that you don't deem to expensive, you can make that swap. Move that monero around a bit and exchange it back to bitcoin and into a wallet and address not connected to your identity.