The effect the mixer ban has had on the forum.

[dkbit98]

A few months or years from now, when most of the legitimate mixers have stopped business or shutdown. It's going to be so hard for an average user to discover and trustworthy mixer through honest reviews that have been a common thing on Bitcointalk. Scammers are going to take advantage of the void left by the forum to create fake reviews that list their scam sites.

It's not like bitcointalk forum was our only source of knowledge about mixers, so nothing much will change, and we can still warn people about suspicious mixers here.

You can help with that by adding backlinks to BitMixList on your site, to anyone whose reading this not specifically you.

There are a couple of websites that collect and list all bitcoin resources in a single website, something like crypto register.
I think it would be useful to get BitMixList listed there, and in other crypto forums.
Another idea is to create a free BitMixList signature campaigns, that is not against the rules I think

[NotATether]

I have figured out a long time ago that paying people for backlinks is a waste of time (and money), so this thing is going to have to grow organically.

I couldn't agree with you because I didn't think you were right. You said paying for backlinks to rank sites was a waste of time and wrong.
Good quality backlinks are on the first page of site results and look very good. If you go to a good SEO expert, he will give you a good direction for your site. Either way, your site will rank on Google and stay on the first page.
There are many categories of backlinks. If you can get backlinks organically, those links will be stubbled for a long time.

It is quite hard to convince people to backlink to me on social media.

Also I don't have thousands of dollars to spend on SEO... I am working within a budget. Likely that is the minimum amount you need to even get a decent DA these days. Even the mixers themselves used to pay Yahoo News for a sponsored article.

You can help with that by adding backlinks to BitMixList on your site, to anyone whose reading this not specifically you.

There are a couple of websites that collect and list all bitcoin resources in a single website, something like crypto register.
I think it would be useful to get BitMixList listed there, and in other crypto forums.
Another idea is to create a free BitMixList signature campaigns, that is not against the rules I think

I suck at designing signatures myself so I would have to shell out a few hundred to jayce if I want to make another set of signatures.

[Poker Player]

~snip

So how did you end up teleporting there? You didn't seem to think very highly of that forum at first, from what you said in this very thread. I imagine you got a good deal on your signature.

[dkbit98]

I suck at designing signatures myself so I would have to shell out a few hundred to jayce if I want to make another set of signatures.

You might want to talk with members who already have or had similar free signature campaigns in forum.
I don't think it's that much expensive to make simple signature and there are also members who can do this job for free, since you don't need anything complicated or fancy with many elements.

[Pmalek]

I have figured out a long time ago that paying people for backlinks is a waste of time (and money), so this thing is going to have to grow organically.

Anyone who writes content that is supposed to get a high rank on Google knows there is on-page and off-page optimization. Your on-page content has to answer the questions that led visitors to your site. Off-page optimization is backlinks and guest posts. I have heard of companies spending tens of thousands of dollars per month on backlinks. I would say they are absolutely necessary if you are creating content in an industry where it's very difficult to get organic backlinks. They can also backfire horribly and make Google punish your site and restrict it from appearing in search results if their algorithms conclude you paid for those links.

[bitmover]

You can help with that by adding backlinks to BitMixList on your site, to anyone whose reading this not specifically you.

Right now I am languishing somewhere on page 2 or 3 on Google Search results and its not pretty.

I have figured out a long time ago that paying people for backlinks is a waste of time (and money), so this thing is going to have to grow organically.

If you guys can do that, well, there is a huge table of trustworthy mixers on the front page, so I don't see anyone getting scammed by phishing sites anymore when they type "best bitcoin mixer" or something like that.

It is hard to climb up in Google searches, and it certainly takes time and some effort adding all stuff google requires.

I made a quick check a few months ago and saw you were doing most of basic SEO stuff already...

I was able to climb relatively high in some google searches in my domain, specifically in terms  "multiple address balances" and some stuff like that. But it takes time. My domain is already 4y old... I have thousands of Blacklinks from bitcointalk, some from mozzilla, github and even small news qebsite,... you will get some as the year passes..

[Poker Player]

Taking a look at the other forum, I see that there are a couple of mixer campaigns that have been "paused" but it looks like they are over for good. It seems that the pressure from the authorities is having an effect and that theymos was on the right track with this issue.

[pinggoki]

Taking a look at the other forum, I see that there are a couple of mixer campaigns that have been "paused" but it looks like they are over for good. It seems that the pressure from the authorities is having an effect and that theymos was on the right track with this issue.

I think that's the reasonable approach, it's the FBI that's on the tail of these mixers after all and I don't think that any campaign manager on their right mind would probably keep a campaign that's basically hot and dangerous lest they want to risk becoming a part of the investigation, might even become an accomplice because they willingly continued the promotion of those mixers just because there's money in it and it would be easily proven since there's evidences. It's a relief that there's not a lot of these campaign managers that decided to tempt fate and play games with the FBI because you can only imagine the headache that would be on other users.

[mindrust]

Taking a look at the other forum, I see that there are a couple of mixer campaigns that have been "paused" but it looks like they are over for good. It seems that the pressure from the authorities is having an effect and that theymos was on the right track with this issue.

I think that's the reasonable approach, it's the FBI that's on the tail of these mixers after all and I don't think that any campaign manager on their right mind would probably keep a campaign that's basically hot and dangerous lest they want to risk becoming a part of the investigation, might even become an accomplice because they willingly continued the promotion of those mixers just because there's money in it and it would be easily proven since there's evidences. It's a relief that there's not a lot of these campaign managers that decided to tempt fate and play games with the FBI because you can only imagine the headache that would be on other users.

Campaign managers don’t seem to care at all. Many campaign managers that are active here are also active in the shitcointalk forum and they only manage mixer campaigns there as far as I know since no other business (exchanges and casinos) use that forum for advertising.

It is like they think they can get away with it after all that happened and I can’t really blame them because money is worth fighting sometimes. Sometimes it pays to take risks. Sometimes you can really get away with it.

I am not saying these managers will or should get punished for promoting mixers but getting a call from the police is more than enough of a punishment most of the time. I just don’t want to see any government official’s face or their voice. It gives me goosebumps.

[DaveF]

...
Campaign managers don’t seem to care at all. Many campaign managers that are active here are also active in the shitcointalk forum and they only manage mixer campaigns there as far as I know since no other business (exchanges and casinos) use that forum for advertising....

There were (are?) a couple of casinos that were advertising there.

In the end it probably does not matter. What nobody talks about is that when you change your sig here, it changes your sig on every post you have ever made. When that happens all of a sudden when search engines go to look to make sure that links still exist and they are now gone it hurts your rank fast. At some point in time you have to have more then just here. If I change my sig that is 7500+ links that just went poof if you (mindrust) change yours that is 11000+ links. Which is why some other places don't want to use sig links.

-Dave

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

Ban on mixers on this forum has the most devastating attack on users privacy and i expect if such should even happened, that shouldn't have been from here, bitcoiners are feeling that the community which supposed to guide against every form of attacks on users privacy are now going by the government regulations on mixers clampdown, another one I've seen is the reduction from the numbers of post and active members on the forum, you can imagine if all the banned mixers were still very active till date, things could have been more fast increasing with the number of users and their post on the forum.

[examplens]

Campaign managers don’t seem to care at all. Many campaign managers that are active here are also active in the shitcointalk forum and they only manage mixer campaigns there as far as I know since no other business (exchanges and casinos) use that forum for advertising.

So we are still looking at the mixer ban through signature campaigns. Is the usefulness and quality of a service really seen through whether it has a signature campaign on the forum? The conclusion is that any service is not worth mentioning if it is not on Bitcointalk (without sig. cam.), also other forums if they do not have active sig. campaigns are completely irrelevant, right?

Isn't the bigger problem that a certain type of service is completely excluded from the forum? All for a reason, because there is no certainty as to how it will be legally interpreted and what the consequences could be. A possible scenario starts from the fact that everything is allowed, up to and including prosecution.
If someone here sees a problem only in signature campaigns, then, in fact, we don't have a problem, in the end, this forum can be complete without paid signatures.

[DaveF]

... in the end, this forum can be complete without paid signatures.

Yup, I have said it before at least for me I will post here even if I am not wearing a sig. But, so long as I can I might as well make some BTC
Not wanting to put words in peoples mouths, but I *think* most of the long time members who are still here and posting have the same thought.

I like this forum and enjoy engaging with people on it, and will not really change how I do things even if all signatures are removed.
It might also help the forum a bit since people who are 'posting to post to make $' will fade away.

Obviously, my view is a bit skewed since I am an American and the amount I make here posting is a very small percentage vs. what I make in my job.
In poorer countries the dynamic will be different, since $100 +/- a week can make a substantial difference in the quality of someones life.

-Dave

[examplens]

I like this forum and enjoy engaging with people on it, and will not really change how I do things even if all signatures are removed.
It might also help the forum a bit since people who are 'posting to post to make $' will fade away.

Activity on the forum would certainly decline. Believe me, no matter how much you enjoy the forum, it's much less fun when there are very few real discussions. Such is the case on Altcoinstalks, what is worth reading is written by (no more than) 10 people.

Obviously, my view is a bit skewed since I am an American and the amount I make here posting is a very small percentage vs. what I make in my job.
In poorer countries the dynamic will be different, since $100 +/- a week can make a substantial difference in the quality of someones life.

All campaigns together have no more than 1000 people. It is not a significant number that changes the economy, only a few individuals significantly improve life through them.

[mindrust]

Campaign managers don’t seem to care at all. Many campaign managers that are active here are also active in the shitcointalk forum and they only manage mixer campaigns there as far as I know since no other business (exchanges and casinos) use that forum for advertising.

So we are still looking at the mixer ban through signature campaigns. Is the usefulness and quality of a service really seen through whether it has a signature campaign on the forum?

Yeah? What else?

I said my thoughts on centralized mixing services many times in the past. They all are crap.

Do you see the code? Is it decentralized? No? Then it is useless.

Same goes for the VPN services too. Any centralized closed source service that promises to provide privacy is potentially running a scam so I can't comment on anything else other than their signature campaigns.

[philipma1957]

Campaign managers don’t seem to care at all. Many campaign managers that are active here are also active in the shitcointalk forum and they only manage mixer campaigns there as far as I know since no other business (exchanges and casinos) use that forum for advertising.

So we are still looking at the mixer ban through signature campaigns. Is the usefulness and quality of a service really seen through whether it has a signature campaign on the forum? The conclusion is that any service is not worth mentioning if it is not on Bitcointalk (without sig. cam.), also other forums if they do not have active sig. campaigns are completely irrelevant, right?

Isn't the bigger problem that a certain type of service is completely excluded from the forum? All for a reason, because there is no certainty as to how it will be legally interpreted and what the consequences could be. A possible scenario starts from the fact that everything is allowed, up to and including prosecution.
If someone here sees a problem only in signature campaigns, then, in fact, we don't have a problem, in the end, this forum can be complete without paid signatures.

So you want theymos to leave the USA and find a friendly country to run bitcointalk.

The USA claims mixers are used by terrorist groups to help fund terrorism.

The world trade center attacks on 911 will always be used to restrict freedoms in the USA.

it is what it is. 

[hd49728]

So you want theymos to leave the USA and find a friendly country to run bitcointalk.

If that friendly country turns their policy similarly to the USA. theymos will need to leave that country, find a new one, and the cycle will repeat.

It will not lead to a happy ending for theymos and the forum and the point is if theymos returns to the USA. or that friendly country, he will be arrested.

theymos will not do this and will not put his security at risk only because of bitcointalk and signature campaigns from mixers.

[NotATether]

The USA claims mixers are used by terrorist groups to help fund terrorism.

As I wrote a few posts ago, most criminals are amateurs who have zero understanding of how a mixer works. Or they do have an inkling of understanding about Bitcoin's anonymity and are using Monero because of that. But they are definitely not using a bitcoin mixer in most cases, either because they don't understand the concept of privacy or because they know Bitcoin is fundamentally not anonymous.

You only have a small percentage of the most skilled cybercriminals or terrorists using a bitcoin mixer in any case.

So much of what Congress and executive branches are saying is waffle, but they don't care because, you know, eroding freedoms is more important! (how ironic that is considering freedom is supposed to be a cornerstone here.)

[examplens]

So you want theymos to leave the USA and find a friendly country to run bitcointalk.

The USA claims mixers are used by terrorist groups to help fund terrorism.

The world trade center attacks on 911 will always be used to restrict freedoms in the USA.

it is what it is. 

It's not like I talked about that in the post you quoted, but I'll tell you.
Here you are expressing the attitude of the average American and what the government served him. The fight against terrorism has always existed and will always exist. Does every country need 9/11 to start the fight against terrorism? It's like a disease, you don't wait for someone to die and then decide to fight against that disease, you work to prevent it. And so it is in every part of the world, the US is nothing special in that regard.

Their claim as the reason for the pressure on Mixers & co is just a show to keep the semblance of freedom

As for the forum, and its management (including where it is located), theymos probably made the best decision according to the situation. But we can't pretend that we don't see the attitude of the US government towards Bitcoin (and cryptocurrencies), which is very similar to the communist regime. Some decisions and ways of acting are very reminiscent of China/Russia from an earlier time.
It is logical that ^crypto businesses move to where business conditions are more favourable.

btw check this discussion Crackdown on mixers and privacy tools is ineffective: it may even help criminals

[JollyGood]

So you want theymos to leave the USA and find a friendly country to run bitcointalk.

I cannot recall any member stating that they wanted (or suggested) theymos to move to a different country in order to run the forum but I recall reading the question being asked a couple of times.

The question should be dropped because theymos will never move to a different country in order to operate the forum from a different jurisdiction and furthermore, the forum is not doing anything illegal.

The USA claims mixers are used by terrorist groups to help fund terrorism.

Well, banks and other financial institutes were being used by all sorts of nefarious entities long before crypto was ever invented. It seems as though by associating crypto with crime some countries are blurring lines and it does not help.