Cheap & silent mini PC for Bitcoin node & blockchain explorer?

[RickDeckard]

The price is attractive, but it's a shame company who make those mini PC rarely offer 2TB option which better for running full node in long term. You either have to buy bare-bone version (where you also buy and put RAM/SSD by yourself) or buy ready-to-use ones which have extra SSD slot.

2TB isn't very often found in these systems (that I'm aware) because most people that use them don't need that much space considering the market they are aiming for. However, as it was suggested before, just buying this machine, selling the 1TB SSD (which wouldn't be hard I believe) and then buying a 2TB one would make things a little bit even on the cost side.

[DaveF]

The price is attractive, but it's a shame company who make those mini PC rarely offer 2TB option which better for running full node in long term. You either have to buy bare-bone version (where you also buy and put RAM/SSD by yourself) or buy ready-to-use ones which have extra SSD slot.

At this point it's probably better to get the 1TB version and in a year clone it to a 2TB or 4TB drive and go from there.

External nvme m.2 cases are cheap enough (once again looking at the US pricing) and larger drives just keep dropping in price. So start with the 1TB, and then when it gets full get a larger one + external. Clone the 1TB to the larger one using the external case and then you have more space on your node and a handy 1TB external drive.

Some of the mini units do have a SATA + m.2 but not all and with the ever changing specs of these cheaper units it's tough to be sure till you get it and open it up.

-Dave

[odolvlobo]

I just bought a GMKtec NucBox G5, with N97 CPU, 12 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SATA SSD, and Win 11 Pro for $160. I plan to replace the SSD with 2TB and install Linux. It is very small -- about 7.25 cm x 7.25 cm x 4.5 cm.

There is also NucBox G3 for $150 with N100, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SSD and Win 11 Pro for $150 (or bare bones for $120). The advantage of this one over the G5 is that it has an additional NVME SSD slot.

[dkbit98]

I just bought a GMKtec NucBox G5, with N97 CPU, 12 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SATA SSD, and Win 11 Pro for $160. I plan to replace the SSD with 2TB and install Linux. It is very small -- about 7.25 cm x 7.25 cm x 4.5 cm.

Not bad for that price, and I found some sales online even cheaper for similar configuration.
I don't know if you heard about recent unfixable bugs found both in Intel and AMD processors, so better check if your processors are affected by this.

[ABCbits]

To those who own mini PC (especially cheap ones or from unpopular brand), have you ever check details of RAM and SSD included by the brand? Some time ago, i briefly helped my friend who have lag problem on his mini PC. Aside from removing some bloatware, i also find out his mini PC use very obscure SSD brand. That SSD seems to use QLC which become very slow on high write activity and also slow down whole system.

--snip--
I don't know if you heard about recent unfixable bugs found both in Intel and AMD processors, so better check if your processors are affected by this.

Which unfixable bugs you're talking about? I did quick search and only found about "Sinkclose" which affect AMD CPU and crashing on recent Intel CPU.

[LoyceV]

To those who own mini PC (especially cheap ones or from unpopular brand)

I've seen some very good offers (considering the price and specs) for mini-PCs from Wish or similar sites, but I'd never dare use them because I don't trust the hardware. What if it somehow shares my data by "calling home"? It's not worth the risk.

[RickDeckard]

To those who own mini PC (especially cheap ones or from unpopular brand)

I've seen some very good offers (considering the price and specs) for mini-PCs from Wish or similar sites, but I'd never dare use them because I don't trust the hardware. What if it somehow shares my data by "calling home"? It's not worth the risk.

I'm also very apprehensive of buying hardware of that nature from places like AliExpress, Gearbest and other alike. The price is most often than not very enticing but I can't for sure say that they are not compromised (no free lunches after all). Quite recently I have been fancying the idea of just gather up some parts and build it myself just for the joy of it, but at the moment I don't really have the time for it, so it's just a project that is currently sitting in the shelf...

[DaveF]

To those who own mini PC (especially cheap ones or from unpopular brand), have you ever check details of RAM and SSD included by the brand? Some time ago, i briefly helped my friend who have lag problem on his mini PC. Aside from removing some bloatware, i also find out his mini PC use very obscure SSD brand. That SSD seems to use QLC which become very slow on high write activity and also slow down whole system.

--snip--
I don't know if you heard about recent unfixable bugs found both in Intel and AMD processors, so better check if your processors are affected by this.

Which unfixable bugs you're talking about? I did quick search and only found about "Sinkclose" which affect AMD CPU and crashing on recent Intel CPU.

More or less this: https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/July-2024-Update-on-Instability-Reports-on-Intel-Core-13th-and/m-p/1617113

Does not really matter to these low speed / power machines as they are based on a different architecture AND as from what seems to be discussed is that it only hits the 65 Watt + CPUs.
There are a ton of youtube videos about this.

I have several of these PCs from Beelink and others. Some have drives from what I would call low price tier 2 makers and others have generic no name ones. All are QLC except for one.
RAM has been the same. Never a Crucial or Corsair but still a name I have heard of (i.e. TEAMGROUP)

But, when you are getting a complete mini PC for under $200 (usually under $175) what do you really expect.

I'm also very apprehensive of buying hardware of that nature from places like AliExpress, Gearbest and other alike. The price is most often than not very enticing but I can't for sure say that they are not compromised (no free lunches after all). Quite recently I have been fancying the idea of just gather up some parts and build it myself just for the joy of it, but at the moment I don't really have the time for it, so it's just a project that is currently sitting in the shelf...

Where are you based? You can get them cheap at Amazon and wipe the drive and re-install.


-Dave

[ABCbits]

I have several of these PCs from Beelink and others. Some have drives from what I would call low price tier 2 makers and others have generic no name ones. All are QLC except for one.
RAM has been the same. Never a Crucial or Corsair but still a name I have heard of (i.e. TEAMGROUP)

But, when you are getting a complete mini PC for under $200 (usually under $175) what do you really expect.

I see, i'll have to pay attention if i ever plan to buy one. And regarding to this thread topic, QLC would slow down node IBD or indexing either by Electrum server/block explorer once it's cache fully used.

I'm also very apprehensive of buying hardware of that nature from places like AliExpress, Gearbest and other alike. The price is most often than not very enticing but I can't for sure say that they are not compromised (no free lunches after all). Quite recently I have been fancying the idea of just gather up some parts and build it myself just for the joy of it, but at the moment I don't really have the time for it, so it's just a project that is currently sitting in the shelf...

Where are you based? You can get them cheap at Amazon and wipe the drive and re-install.


-Dave

Maybe LoyceV and RickDeckard worry about malicious stuff on hardware level or persistent malware which "live" on BIOS/UEFI.

[DaveF]

Maybe LoyceV and RickDeckard worry about malicious stuff on hardware level or persistent malware which "live" on BIOS/UEFI.

The catch with that being most of these mini PC makers *don't* make their boards. They are buying them from someone else. I own a few from a couple of brands and know people and have setup from others many others. The boards are all the same. Not close....the same. Looking at some of the places you can buy the bare board online they are all close enough to be coming from the same manufacturer.

So if you are worried about the BIOS / UEFI you are going to have to buy from one of the well known bigger OEMs. Which takes off the the 1st word in the subject of this topic. Cheap.

-Dave

[LoyceV]

So if you are worried about the BIOS / UEFI you are going to have to buy from one of the well known bigger OEMs. Which takes off the the 1st word in the subject of this topic. Cheap.

Hence my preference for old laptops I'm still looking for a "new" one

i also find out his mini PC use very obscure SSD brand. That SSD seems to use QLC which become very slow on high write activity and also slow down whole system.

Confirmed! This is a problem with HDDs and SSDs. After a certain threshold, most budget disks become very slow. The HDD slowness is of course several orders of magnitude worse than the SSD slowness, but it's still very noticeable even on the SSD. When writing a lot, cheap SSDs seem unable to multitask and read a few bytes in between. For most uses that's not a problem, but it may be annoying if you also want to be able to use the system during large writes (such as the IBD).

[dkbit98]

I've seen some very good offers (considering the price and specs) for mini-PCs from Wish or similar sites, but I'd never dare use them because I don't trust the hardware. What if it somehow shares my data by "calling home"? It's not worth the risk.

You could say the same thing for laptops and desktop computers, there is no difference at all.
All you can do is installing open source bios on supported machines and than installing fresh Linux OS.

Which unfixable bugs you're talking about? I did quick search and only found about "Sinkclose" which affect AMD CPU and crashing on recent Intel CPU.

I can't find the source article for AMD now, but I am sure g00gle knows better than me. 
I think that all Intel 13th and 14th Gen CPUs are crashing because of this bug with permanent damage.
We need more alternative for AMD and Intel, maybe RISC-V or something else.

[LoyceV]

I've seen some very good offers (considering the price and specs) for mini-PCs from Wish or similar sites, but I'd never dare use them because I don't trust the hardware. What if it somehow shares my data by "calling home"? It's not worth the risk.

You could say the same thing for laptops and desktop computers, there is no difference at all.

I trust Dell, Lenovo or HP more than Wish.

I think that all Intel 13th and 14th Gen CPUs are crashing because of this bug with permanent damage.

From what I've seen, it's only a problem when they consume more than 65W. That's far more than the silent PC from this topic should consume.

[dkbit98]

I trust Dell, Lenovo or HP more than Wish.

So does the cia/nsa 

From what I've seen, it's only a problem when they consume more than 65W. That's far more than the silent PC from this topic should consume.

I don't know exact details about it and I don't own intel processor anymore.
If there is a passive cooling for processor than temperatures could go a bit higher, but I don't think running only bitcoin node be a problem.

[DaveF]

This might be a bit fringe issue but something to keep in mind when getting used make sure that things like Computrace and similar are DISABLED when buying and setting up a used machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er9sAereb30

For the people that don't want to watch the video, guy bought a used PC, years later MasterCard who had previously owned it remotely disabled it. No idea if it was legit stolen or they messed up and never took it off inventory or some other reason. He had to wipe and install linux to make it work again, but this can put a large crimp in your day if you can't get into your node for some reason.

-Dave

[philipma1957]

This might be a bit fringe issue but something to keep in mind when getting used make sure that things like Computrace and similar are DISABLED when buying and setting up a used machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er9sAereb30

For the people that don't want to watch the video, guy bought a used PC, years later MasterCard who had previously owned it remotely disabled it. No idea if it was legit stolen or they messed up and never took it off inventory or some other reason. He had to wipe and install linux to make it work again, but this can put a large crimp in your day if you can't get into your node for some reason.

-Dave

yeah pulling the hard drive/ssd is a must. linux is a good idea once you did that.

[LoyceV]

guy bought a used PC, years later MasterCard who had previously owned it remotely disabled it.
~ He had to wipe and install linux to make it work again

Are there still people who trust second hand operating systems without wiping it?

[DaveF]

guy bought a used PC, years later MasterCard who had previously owned it remotely disabled it.
~ He had to wipe and install linux to make it work again

Are there still people who trust second hand operating systems without wiping it?

Its not just the OS it's the OS and BIOS settings.

You can wipe / replace the drive / whatever. If Computrace (and similar) are active in the BIOS is will follow to the new OS if the OS recognizes the fact that it's on and active in the BIOS it will use it.

So yes, you get a used machine, you replace the drive, you install an OS Windows or Linux that recognizes the security lock and you now have a paperweight.

And yes I keep calling it BIOS I know it's more UEFI but it's been BIOS to me for 40+ years so it shall always be known as that.....

Isn't tech fun.

-Dave

[Cricktor]

As I like to use used computer hardware that is mostly available for a good bargain, I always skim through BIOS settings to turn off unwanted features and get the device to good settings that I can rely on.

If possible I flash the last available BIOS firmware or try to re-flash it when the device is already on the latest available version (if possible it's necessary to flash an older version first). Reason for this procedure is: I want the firmware to be surely as published by the vendor.

I never use any pre-installed OS, especially not with an used device. I always wipe internal storage completely and install the OS new myself. Re-flashing BIOS firmware and wiping internal storage should get me rid of potential rootkits or other nasty stuff.

[odolvlobo]

Back on topic ...

I just bought a GMKtec NucBox G5, with N97 CPU, 12 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SATA SSD, and Win 11 Pro for $160. I plan to replace the SSD with 2TB and install Linux. It is very small -- about 7.25 cm x 7.25 cm x 4.5 cm.

Previously, I had a RPi 4 node set up using the Raspibolt guide. It was slow and a little unreliable because the RPi 4 is not a very powerful processor. Problems with availability of the RPi 5 led me to buy the GMKtec setup that I mentioned above. As stability is a priority, I went with Debian Linux.

Here is my report.

TL;DR: It's a winner.

Setup

I followed the Raspibolt guide again because it generally works with any hardware setup and Linux distro. There were a few problems setting up because there are some small differences between Raspian and Debian. Minor deviations from the guide are necessary. The biggest problem was the difference between the default permissions for the /home directory. I was unable to install the OpenTimestamp client, but I didn't bother to figure out why because it is not required.

I was able to copy the block chain data from my RPi 4 node and so it only took several hours to get a fully synced block chain.

Operation

I am running Bitcoin Core, Lightning, JoinMarket, Electrum server, and a block chain explorer. Everything is directly accessible on my local network and externally through TOR. I control the node via SSH.

The new node is much faster and much more responsive than the RPi 4 node. I ran the RPI 4 node as a backup for a while in case there was a problem, but the new node has run so smoothly that I retired the RPi 4 node.

I like the internal SSD as I assume that it is much faster than a USB SSD. However, the G5 has a SATA M.2 interface and 2 TB SATA SSDs are not as common as NVMe, so that might be a consideration when choosing the hardware.

The node is silent. I hear the fan running for a few seconds only occasionally.