Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[SuperBitMan]

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

The newbie is right I don't think there is a different between short-term holding and trading they are just same thing since there objective will be to sell Bitcoin in a short time without accumulating and hodling for long is not even advisable to go into Bitcoin investment with the mindset of trading Bitcoin or for a short time because you might run at lost and the risk is much though people can choose what works for them.

We should not be presuming that short term traders or traders are going to sell bitcoin at a loss, so they can enter into their bitcoin trade and then they sell at a profit.  They make more dollars than they had previously.

That's actually true, even though we presume that HODLing bitcoin for a longer time of maybe 10 - 20 years is good, but doesn't mean that a person who buy and HODl for 5 years can't make a decent amount. A person might buy bitcoin when its dip and HODl for a short time of maybe 4-5 years and decide to sell when the price has increased  and will make profit. Even though the profit was not hug as compeard to a long time investment, but atleast we can not totally say there in no profit in short term investment.

Ultimately people can do whatever they like, including that they could come into bitcoin by presuming that they were going to trade and then convert their plan into an investment or the opposite they can come in planning to invest for 4-10 years or longer and decide to abandon ship.  Frequently when we are discussing what people should or should not do, we may well be creating some presumptions about what bitcoin is good for on a general level rather than trying to tell individuals what to do, since people can do whatever they want, including dumb stuff which tends to be trying to trade bitcoin rather than investing into it.

Another thing is that if a person is really trying to transition from a poor, mediocre or even normal person (or even a desperate person which may well be the status of a lot of people who are subjected to various ongoing debasement of the dollar/fiat), then they are most likely going to be way better off to create and to follow through with a long bitcoin plan rather than fucking around trying to get in and out of bitcoin and failing/refusing to see the long term value of bitcoin rather than wanting to get their short-to-medium term payoff in dollars (or whatever might be their fiat currency). .. so yeah, there are all kinds of ways to measure profits, and surely there have been profitable people all the way up the history of bitcoin who were profitable in dollars and ended up selling way too much of their bitcoin too soon because they were too busy thinking about their short term profits, which sure they still may have done quite well.. .. but still they might not even be close to a good place in comparison to where they could have had been, and that is their choice to end up fucking themselves over and realizing that later down the road.. "whoops.. I sold too much bitcoin too soon."

Do you need an example?

Let's say there were a couple of guys who got into bitcoin about 10 years ago, so around November 2014 and perhaps the guys were in their early 40s at that time, and so one of them largely accumulated and sold small amounts along the way (Hypothetical 1) and the other one (Hypothetical 2) sold too many BTC too soon.  Let's say that both of them largely accumulated bitcoin for 6 years, so they were pretty aggressive about their BTC investment and bought about $150 worth of BTC for every week for those six years and then so each of them invested around $47k and they accumulated right around 55 BTC... so surely not bad.... Perhaps Hypothetical 1 might have sold around 10 of his BTC at various points after November 2020, so he still has around 45 BTC, yet hypothetical 2, decided to sell all of his BTC around November 2020 because he was just too stressed about his BTC, and surely he was able to get $20k each of of his BTC, so hypothetical 2 ended up getting over $1 million for his BTC, and he was able to buy some property, cars and even go on a few vacations for experiences.. He had to pay taxes too.. but sure, he still had decently good sized profits from his having had accumulated BTC for 6 years and he deserved a reward, no?

I personally believe that Hypothetical 1 would have had been much better off than Hypothetical 2 because he largely just hung onto most of his coins, but hey whatever guys can do what they like and they can follow whatever plan that they like in terms of how they might decide to manage their BTC once they reach their accumulation goal.  I also think that selling large portions of your BTC is dumb, even though people can do what they like including that they may well still be in quite large profits from their decision to get into bitcoin and to get out (so they profited a lot by having had been in bitcoin), even though they end up making the wrong choice in regards to how to manage their BTC once they had spent so much time, energy and even value building up their BTC holdings over several years.

How are you going to manage your coins if you get into a situation like these two guys after 6 years accumulating and feeling that you have reached your BTC accumulation goals?

You are right when you said when discussing about Bitcoin giving presumptions about what bitcoin is good for on a general level rather than trying to tell individuals what to do, there are different method to follow in investing in Bitcoin however just like you said we should not tell someone what to do or the strategy to follow but we should discuss about the good about Bitcoin and it's good strategy in a general terms from there they can make there decisions on how to go about there Bitcoin investment.
Imposing something on someone may not go down well with that person, people do well when they choose by there selves what they what to do so it will be better we don't impose something on people especially the newbies all we should do is to discuss all this things in a general level and after doing that they can go through it and make there choice, before coming to this forum I didn't have the knowledge about DCA strategy so when I came I saw different discussion about different strategy a read them and I decided to go with DCA strategy.

Well I think those who sell all there Bitcoin as soon as they reach there Accumulating goal or as soon as Bitcoin hit there goal price really do not believe in the continue growth of Bitcoin.
Another reason why some people sell off all there Bitcoin is because they want to use the money to venture into another investment.
Selling all your Bitcoin is not wise, no one is stopping you from selling some of your Bitcoin when you have accumulated enough but selling all is not right because Bitcoin is still growing and if you sell all your Bitcoin you might not even be close to a good place in comparison to the person that sold some and hold some.
Well is till your choice to do what ever you feel is right for you because you are still the one to carry what ever result you get at last.

[Mayor of ogba]

I agree with you that holding is the most important thing in Bitcoin investment however not short term holding or trading but long term holding if we master the act of long term holding we will become successful investors, the reason why I decided to make it clear is because of newbies if one just say holding some set of newbie may think about short term holding or trading and which is very risky.
The only way to reduce the risk of losing in Bitcoin investment as an investor is by engaging in long term Bitcoin investment, holding your Bitcoin for long will help you relax and stop panicking, those who are into Long term holding Bitcoin volatility won't be something they should be afraid of because the longer you hold Bitcoin the more successful you may become.

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

As someone more experienced than a newbie in bitcoin investment, you should know that trading is not the right thing for a newbie to adopt because he lacks the knowledge and experience that will help him become successful in it. So saying that a newbie should decide whether to invest in bitcoin for short-term profit or long-term profit is wrong because you know too well that if a newbie invests in bitcoin for short-term profit, he will fail, which might give him the wrong impression about bitcoin. You should have made it clear to a newbie that investing in bitcoin for short-term profit will be of no use or good to him, and he should adopt long-term investment in bitcoin so that in the long run he will become successful with his bitcoin investment, and he should invest in bitcoin with the money he will not be needing for 4-10 years or more, which will allow him not to find it difficult to sort out his daily expenses since he will be using the money that is not allocated to solve anything in his life for 4-10 years or more.

[Stablexcoin]

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based  withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

[ultrloa]

I agree with you that holding is the most important thing in Bitcoin investment however not short term holding or trading but long term holding if we master the act of long term holding we will become successful investors, the reason why I decided to make it clear is because of newbies if one just say holding some set of newbie may think about short term holding or trading and which is very risky.
The only way to reduce the risk of losing in Bitcoin investment as an investor is by engaging in long term Bitcoin investment, holding your Bitcoin for long will help you relax and stop panicking, those who are into Long term holding Bitcoin volatility won't be something they should be afraid of because the longer you hold Bitcoin the more successful you may become.

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

As someone more experienced than a newbie in bitcoin investment, you should know that trading is not the right thing for a newbie to adopt because he lacks the knowledge and experience that will help him become successful in it. So saying that a newbie should decide whether to invest in bitcoin for short-term profit or long-term profit is wrong because you know too well that if a newbie invests in bitcoin for short-term profit, he will fail, which might give him the wrong impression about bitcoin. You should have made it clear to a newbie that investing in bitcoin for short-term profit will be of no use or good to him, and he should adopt long-term investment in bitcoin so that in the long run he will become successful with his bitcoin investment, and he should invest in bitcoin with the money he will not be needing for 4-10 years or more, which will allow him not to find it difficult to sort out his daily expenses since he will be using the money that is not allocated to solve anything in his life for 4-10 years or more.

Yeah its correct that this should never be introduce to newbie. But somehow other people turn on other path then select trading because at first provably they think about that it can give them faster result.

And usually people learn their lesson in hard way, that's why realization really comes late then this thoughts will come after they lose and think about how unpredictable the market is. Provably after that they would go think about its more ideal for them to do hold than trade their bitcoins.

Although this is unfortunate thing but I guess that's part of expensive lesson that they need to learn from. If a newbie don't want to experience losing and don't try to adapt a risk taker mindset doing trades much better for them to stick on hodling since it will give them convenience and stress free investment, especially if they already know how to handle their emotion.

[sotelorene]

I agree with you that holding is the most important thing in Bitcoin investment however not short term holding or trading but long term holding if we master the act of long term holding we will become successful investors, the reason why I decided to make it clear is because of newbies if one just say holding some set of newbie may think about short term holding or trading and which is very risky.
The only way to reduce the risk of losing in Bitcoin investment as an investor is by engaging in long term Bitcoin investment, holding your Bitcoin for long will help you relax and stop panicking, those who are into Long term holding Bitcoin volatility won't be something they should be afraid of because the longer you hold Bitcoin the more successful you may become.

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

As someone more experienced than a newbie in bitcoin investment, you should know that trading is not the right thing for a newbie to adopt because he lacks the knowledge and experience that will help him become successful in it. So saying that a newbie should decide whether to invest in bitcoin for short-term profit or long-term profit is wrong because you know too well that if a newbie invests in bitcoin for short-term profit, he will fail, which might give him the wrong impression about bitcoin. You should have made it clear to a newbie that investing in bitcoin for short-term profit will be of no use or good to him, and he should adopt long-term investment in bitcoin so that in the long run he will become successful with his bitcoin investment, and he should invest in bitcoin with the money he will not be needing for 4-10 years or more, which will allow him not to find it difficult to sort out his daily expenses since he will be using the money that is not allocated to solve anything in his life for 4-10 years or more.

You are actually right, short term investment wich can also be seen as trading is not really advisable because no one can tell what the market will look like in that short interval of time but we can't really tell for sure if there is going to be a profit or not that is to say that there may be profit in that short period and there may not also be a profit in that same period of time, so the best is to hold for a long period of time and that's the only way one can enjoy his or her investment.

I think some people have to learn in a hard way before they will understand how things actually work and also know the right approach to..., someone can only be a failure when he or she stop trying so if they go into short term investment and peradventure they failed, some will change their method of investment and hopefully they will succeed but having wrong impression about it, is an impression that person is/going to be a failure, don't give up for what you know it's valuable simply because you failed by going the wrong way.

[Sim_card]

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

The newbie is right I don't think there is a different between short-term holding and trading they are just same thing since there objective will be to sell Bitcoin in a short time without accumulating and hodling for long is not even advisable to go into Bitcoin investment with the mindset of trading Bitcoin or for a short time because you might run at lost and the risk is much though people can choose what works for them.

We should not be presuming that short term traders or traders are going to sell bitcoin at a loss, so they can enter into their bitcoin trade and then they sell at a profit.  They make more dollars than they had previously.

That's actually true, even though we presume that HODLing bitcoin for a longer time of maybe 10 - 20 years is good, but doesn't mean that a person who buy and HODl for 5 years can't make a decent amount. A person might buy bitcoin when its dip and HODl for a short time of maybe 4-5 years and decide to sell when the price has increased  and will make profit. Even though the profit was not hug as compeard to a long time investment, but atleast we can not totally say there in no profit in short term investment.

Ultimately people can do whatever they like, including that they could come into bitcoin by presuming that they were going to trade and then convert their plan into an investment or the opposite they can come in planning to invest for 4-10 years or longer and decide to abandon ship.  Frequently when we are discussing what people should or should not do, we may well be creating some presumptions about what bitcoin is good for on a general level rather than trying to tell individuals what to do, since people can do whatever they want, including dumb stuff which tends to be trying to trade bitcoin rather than investing into it.

Another thing is that if a person is really trying to transition from a poor, mediocre or even normal person (or even a desperate person which may well be the status of a lot of people who are subjected to various ongoing debasement of the dollar/fiat), then they are most likely going to be way better off to create and to follow through with a long bitcoin plan rather than fucking around trying to get in and out of bitcoin and failing/refusing to see the long term value of bitcoin rather than wanting to get their short-to-medium term payoff in dollars (or whatever might be their fiat currency). .. so yeah, there are all kinds of ways to measure profits, and surely there have been profitable people all the way up the history of bitcoin who were profitable in dollars and ended up selling way too much of their bitcoin too soon because they were too busy thinking about their short term profits, which sure they still may have done quite well.. .. but still they might not even be close to a good place in comparison to where they could have had been, and that is their choice to end up fucking themselves over and realizing that later down the road.. "whoops.. I sold too much bitcoin too soon."

Do you need an example?

Let's say there were a couple of guys who got into bitcoin about 10 years ago, so around November 2014 and perhaps the guys were in their early 40s at that time, and so one of them largely accumulated and sold small amounts along the way (Hypothetical 1) and the other one (Hypothetical 2) sold too many BTC too soon.  Let's say that both of them largely accumulated bitcoin for 6 years, so they were pretty aggressive about their BTC investment and bought about $150 worth of BTC for every week for those six years and then so each of them invested around $47k and they accumulated right around 55 BTC... so surely not bad.... Perhaps Hypothetical 1 might have sold around 10 of his BTC at various points after November 2020, so he still has around 45 BTC, yet hypothetical 2, decided to sell all of his BTC around November 2020 because he was just too stressed about his BTC, and surely he was able to get $20k each of of his BTC, so hypothetical 2 ended up getting over $1 million for his BTC, and he was able to buy some property, cars and even go on a few vacations for experiences.. He had to pay taxes too.. but sure, he still had decently good sized profits from his having had accumulated BTC for 6 years and he deserved a reward, no?

I personally believe that Hypothetical 1 would have had been much better off than Hypothetical 2 because he largely just hung onto most of his coins, but hey whatever guys can do what they like and they can follow whatever plan that they like in terms of how they might decide to manage their BTC once they reach their accumulation goal.  I also think that selling large portions of your BTC is dumb, even though people can do what they like including that they may well still be in quite large profits from their decision to get into bitcoin and to get out (so they profited a lot by having had been in bitcoin), even though they end up making the wrong choice in regards to how to manage their BTC once they had spent so much time, energy and even value building up their BTC holdings over several years.

How are you going to manage your coins if you get into a situation like these two guys after 6 years accumulating and feeling that you have reached your BTC accumulation goals?

I will prefer to be in hypothesis 1 shoes that only sold 10btc and has 45btc in my custody. The reason is because bitcoin investment is worth hodli till old age when you have retired because the longer you hodli, the higher your portfolio and profits. before you can decide if you are going to pass it on to your children or start shaving profits bit by bit. If I invest in bitcoin for 6 years, why will I want to waste all my effort, time and resources to build such bitcoin investment, and start selling too much too soon.

I saw it before my own eyes how the value of bitcoin increased during that six years duration that I was investing aggressively. If I don't want to add more to my investment because I have reached my bitcoin target, I will prefer to hodli and watch the value of my portfolio increase exponentially due to the size, and if at all shave very little profit once in a blue moon.

This is the mistake some investors will make by selling to much bitcoin too soon without considering the value of bitcoin in future, because they got carried away with too much profits in fiat and couldn't control themselves, I will call that mismanagement of bitcoin investment because there was no sustainable withdrawal plan. It's good we know all these things so that one will not regret his actions in future.

[EclipseXcrypto]

I agree with you that holding is the most important thing in Bitcoin investment however not short term holding or trading but long term holding if we master the act of long term holding we will become successful investors, the reason why I decided to make it clear is because of newbies if one just say holding some set of newbie may think about short term holding or trading and which is very risky.
The only way to reduce the risk of losing in Bitcoin investment as an investor is by engaging in long term Bitcoin investment, holding your Bitcoin for long will help you relax and stop panicking, those who are into Long term holding Bitcoin volatility won't be something they should be afraid of because the longer you hold Bitcoin the more successful you may become.

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

As someone more experienced than a newbie in bitcoin investment, you should know that trading is not the right thing for a newbie to adopt because he lacks the knowledge and experience that will help him become successful in it. So saying that a newbie should decide whether to invest in bitcoin for short-term profit or long-term profit is wrong because you know too well that if a newbie invests in bitcoin for short-term profit, he will fail, which might give him the wrong impression about bitcoin. You should have made it clear to a newbie that investing in bitcoin for short-term profit will be of no use or good to him, and he should adopt long-term investment in bitcoin so that in the long run he will become successful with his bitcoin investment, and he should invest in bitcoin with the money he will not be needing for 4-10 years or more, which will allow him not to find it difficult to sort out his daily expenses since he will be using the money that is not allocated to solve anything in his life for 4-10 years or more.

Newbies should be aware and understand the dangers involved in short-term holding, it's important to keep on creating the awareness in this forum  to help them know the potential risk involved and guide them towards a long term investment approach in bitcoin. In most cases, when Bitcoin investment doesn't turn out well, it's often because people fail to understand the dangers in short-term holding. That quick gain mindset can really lead to losses. If a newbie can avoid a quick gain mindset and remain consistent with their accumulation while staying committed and patient, they are likely to succeed in their investments over time. It is difficult to capitalize on the growth potentials of Bitcoin in a short-term frame. Holding Bitcoin for a long term really helps a newbie or an investor to be successful in their investments. It allows them to go through those ups and downs capitalizing on the growth over time and value appreciation.

[Proty]

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based  withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

This statement sounds misleading morespecially to newbie because it will be unreasonable to invest in bitcoin with the mindset that you can withdraw your profit whenever you feels like , bitcoin investment is best appreciated when view in terms of longer term.unless those that are fucking around with trading and bitcoin is unlike gambling or shitcoin were you can gamble in or out with the plans of making quick profit.
There is no time that is not right to hold bitcoin and also it depends on our accumulation plans, as new investor who are still in there early stage of bitcoin accumulation should focus more on acquiring more bitcoin and hold for 8-10 yrs or longer.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

You are right when you said when discussing about Bitcoin giving presumptions about what bitcoin is good for on a general level rather than trying to tell individuals what to do, there are different method to follow in investing in Bitcoin however just like you said we should not tell someone what to do or the strategy to follow but we should discuss about the good about Bitcoin and it's good strategy in a general terms from there they can make there decisions on how to go about there Bitcoin investment.
Imposing something on someone may not go down well with that person, people do well when they choose by there selves what they what to do so it will be better we don't impose something on people especially the newbies all we should do is to discuss all this things in a general level and after doing that they can go through it and make there choice, before coming to this forum I didn't have the knowledge about DCA strategy so when I came I saw different discussion about different strategy a read them and I decided to go with DCA strategy.

Sure. Even though we might seem to be similar things, I still seem to be outlining somewhat differing points from you, including the various dilemmas that can exist, even when two folks might have had followed similar strategies up until a certain point, so it can become quite ambiguous regarding the repercussions of selling a bunch of bitcoin and taking dollar profits, which surely is still profitable and perhaps even more profitable than any other investment, yet still at the same time, in bitcoin, it could come to be realized that the person who sold all of his bitcoin after 6 years investing had ultimately put himself in a worse position than he would have had been had he not been so drastic in his decision to take profits and/or to get out of bitcoin.

There could be some cases in which the better decision would be to get out or at least to considerably cut down in the bitcoin investment, even though it would have had been financially better to hold onto the bitcoin, so in some senses, individual financial and/or psychological circumstances still might end up justifying the taking of short-term profits, even though there might even be decent knowledge that the decision might not look so good down the road in terms of objective measurements of financial value comparisons.

Well I think those who sell all there Bitcoin as soon as they reach there Accumulating goal or as soon as Bitcoin hit there goal price really do not believe in the continue growth of Bitcoin.
Another reason why some people sell off all there Bitcoin is because they want to use the money to venture into another investment.
Selling all your Bitcoin is not wise, no one is stopping you from selling some of your Bitcoin when you have accumulated enough but selling all is not right because Bitcoin is still growing and if you sell all your Bitcoin you might not even be close to a good place in comparison to the person that sold some and hold some.
Well is till your choice to do what ever you feel is right for you because you are still the one to carry what ever result you get at last.

Ok.. These are all fair discussion points, and surely in the example that I had given, we see the guys in their early 40s when they get into bitcoin, and one of them takes profits in his late 40s and the other one lets it ride and by the time he is in his early 50s (a few years after the other one had already taken profits), the one who did not take profits is sitting in a quite secure position because of his choice to mostly hang onto his bitcoin.. and hopefully also ended up managing his overall financial situation in a much more forward-looking direction, even though each one of them might have had strong temptations to sell large portions of their BTC stash in late 2020 when bitcoin got back up to its 2017 high of $20k-ish.. and so these surely can be difficult decisions, and perhaps just selling part of the BTC holdings might be a kind of compromise solution that ends up playing out better than selling the whole stash.. and even we could see that these guys who had accumulated about 55 BTC by late 2020, they could have sold 3-5 BTC at $20k (which would have been $60k to $100k) and still got back more dollar value than their whole initial investment amount that was around $47k at that time, and still be left with 50-52 BTC remaining in their holdings to continue to ride out the coming years.. whether he might determine that he had accumulated enough or not.. and yeah sometimes we might not know if there might be some other financial and/or motivating factors that are driving one of the guys to sell more of his BTC, and in my hypothetical, I am trying to suggest that the guys are very similar in their financial situations, and the main ONLY difference between them is that one of them got anxious about feeling that he needed to sell all of his BTC in order to realize his profits, and the other did not feel anything near that level of anxiety and mostly was willing to just continue to hold all of the BTC..even while the BTC was passing back above new ATH BTC price levels (of $20k) once again.

Yeah, after the fact any of us can say, I would have done this, that or the other thing, yet when we are going through the actual process, it is much more difficult to figure out what is the best way forward since we have hardly any clues, apart from hunches, in regards to which direction the BTC price might be going in the short to medium to long term...but we do know the BTC price that we have right in front of us at the time that we are going through the contemplations about what to do.

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based  withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

Sometimes guys end up investing too much, and not realizing that they had invested too much, so there can be some psychological help for the guy to be able to continue to hold and/or even to keep in buying BTC if the guy is already able to detach himself somewhat from the amount of money that he had already invested and also detach himself from paper value of the money, especially if he might also realize that it could well be another 4-10 years or more (even after he had invested for 6 years or so) until he is going to actually start to consider to withdraw from the money that he already invested...so there surely can be fears that the value of the holdings could drop, 20%, 50% or even 80%, so then there can still be nervousness about holding such value, and perhaps in those kinds of greater dropping situations, the solution might not be merely to continue to hold but instead to make sure that some kind of a buying plan is in place to help to reinforce the conviction about the investment, especially when the whole value of the investment is ongoingly going down during perhaps even an extended period of time and seeming to fail to go back up.

[edited out]

You are actually right, short term investment wich can also be seen as trading is not really advisable because no one can tell what the market will look like in that short interval of time but we can't really tell for sure if there is going to be a profit or not that is to say that there may be profit in that short period and there may not also be a profit in that same period of time, so the best is to hold for a long period of time and that's the only way one can enjoy his or her investment.

You are not even coming close to resolving the dilemma sotelorene.. since in the case of my hypothetical there was something more than 20x in profits when one of the guys decided to sell all of his BTC, and so yeah, he may well be considering that he is greatly in profits, yet in the end, it was likely not the better financial move for him to make, since he may well did not even need to buy all of the things that he ended up buying and he ended up being a no coiner (or perhaps a low coiner if we change the hypothetical a bit) in his early 50s.. and it could become even worse for him and perhaps even more difficult to buy back in since he sold all of his coins in late 2020 at $20k.

The problem is not easy, since his cashing out at 20x profits still did end up improving his life, yet he still might end up being somewhat fucked by not having any coins and he still might have another 20 to 50 years to live, and so in regards to his approach to bitcoin he has to start over. .when he could have made some better choices in regards to how to manage his bitcoin, yet he does not really realize his mistake until several years after he already sold all of his coins.

I think some people have to learn in a hard way before they will understand how things actually work and also know the right approach to..., someone can only be a failure when he or she stop trying so if they go into short term investment and peradventure they failed, some will change their method of investment and hopefully they will succeed but having wrong impression about it, is an impression that person is/going to be a failure, don't give up for what you know it's valuable simply because you failed by going the wrong way.

Sure people learn more through experiences, yet I am not sure if you are saying very much, since there are bigger and smaller mistakes that guys make, and sometimes guys will continue to make similar kinds of mistakes, yet as they get older, they sometimes will end up in a position in which they are no longer ready, willing and able to work as hard to earn money, and so they may well not be able to do over their mistake, so surely they have to figure out a way to still learn from their earlier mistake without ending up making some new mistakes by perhaps gambling more or trying to turn back the clock (and make up for prior losses) when the clock cannot be turned back..and one of the best compounders of value is time.. .. and so if they time is used up, there is no way to really go back and make up that time that was lost or squandered away.

[edited out]

I will prefer to be in hypothesis 1 shoes that only sold 10btc and has 45btc in my custody. The reason is because bitcoin investment is worth hodli till old age when you have retired because the longer you hodli, the higher your portfolio and profits. before you can decide if you are going to pass it on to your children or start shaving profits bit by bit. If I invest in bitcoin for 6 years, why will I want to waste all my effort, time and resources to build such bitcoin investment, and start selling too much too soon.

Yeah, surely its good if we can see in advance that we should not be taking rash actions in regards to our bitcoin as an investment, especially if we had been spending 6 years building it up, yet there are still so many guys that cannot get trading and/or gambling ideas out of their head and they sometimes cannot appreciate the value of incremental actions rather than feeling that they have to sell everything.. and so even very smart guys get sucked into all or nothing kind of thinking in regards to their investment, and sometimes that all or nothing thinking could end up paying off, yet we cannot really know for sure until much later down the road, and surely sometimes it could even take a few years before we realize a mistake that we had made much earlier and that we never did really recover from that earlier mistake.. and then by the time we realize the mistake, we might be in a much more problematic position, including not really being able to rectify our mistake.. including that the guy who sold all of his bitcoin and largely consumed it.. and sure he had some investments in there too, but the investments may well not have come even close to as well in regards to their performance as if he had just kept the value in bitcoin... including that property is much less liquid than bitcoin, too...and includes a lot of costs (maintenance, taxes, purchasing fees) that might not exactly be realized. .but surely some of us might also be buying a personal residence and then no longer having to pay rent... .. even though we are more locked into a certain geography.. so surely there is some value in that too..

I saw it before my own eyes how the value of bitcoin increased during that six years duration that I was investing aggressively. If I don't want to add more to my investment because I have reached my bitcoin target, I will prefer to hodli and watch the value of my portfolio increase exponentially due to the size, and if at all shave very little profit once in a blue moon.

This is the mistake some investors will make by selling to much bitcoin too soon without considering the value of bitcoin in future, because they got carried away with too much profits in fiat and couldn't control themselves, I will call that mismanagement of bitcoin investment because there was no sustainable withdrawal plan. It's good we know all these things so that one will not regret his actions in future.

It is likely that we are going to make some mistakes along the way, even once we get to 6 or more years investing into bitcoin, yet if we are also able to learn from the mistakes of others or even hypothesize out various possible scenarios, then we are likely going to be more prepared to know how we want to manage our own bitcoin holdings in light of of our personal situations, and perhaps lessen the severity of any of the mistakes that we do end up making along the way.  Sometimes also when we prepare in advance, we might anticipate making a variety of mistakes, but then at the same time, out preparations end up facilitating that our whole situation ends up performing better than our better case scenario of plans, so our planning and putting our plans into actions, ends up allowing us to be able to both identify future opportunties, but also being in a position that we are actually able to act upon the future opportunities when they end up coming available to our then situation.

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based  withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

This statement sounds misleading morespecially to newbie because it will be unreasonable to invest in bitcoin with the mindset that you can withdraw your profit whenever you feels like , bitcoin investment is best appreciated when view in terms of longer term.unless those that are fucking around with trading and bitcoin is unlike gambling or shitcoin were you can gamble in or out with the plans of making quick profit.
There is no time that is not right to hold bitcoin and also it depends on our accumulation plans, as new investor who are still in there early stage of bitcoin accumulation should focus more on acquiring more bitcoin and hold for 8-10 yrs or longer.

Well the truth of the matter is that each of us is always empowered to do whatever we like, including abandoning our earlier made plans.

Of course, there is value in sticking with our plans, and there is value in creating plans in which we are going to be ready, willing and able to stick with our plans, yet at the same time, I am going to presume that each of us is still an adult who can end up fucking up our own plans, and to be tempted to take out too many profits too early.

There is almost no way to completely lock any of us into any plan that we make, except for each of us could end up engaging in rituals, such as ongoing buying of bitcoin, that might help to reinforce our being able to stick with our original plans, yet at the same time bitcoin is likely going to be continuing to be changing in value and there are going to continue to be various drama and negative talking points about bitcoin, so each of us still has to figure out our own various ways of dealing with those situations, and if we tweak our plans, we may well be figuring out ways that we might tweak our plans from time to time, and hopefully end up not taking ourselves completely out of the game.. and sure sometimes we might damage ourselves by tweaking our plans, but we might also damage ourselves by failing/refusing to tweak our plans.  We might not know in advance and we likely need to be able to figure out ways to incorporate our own learnings along the way, and each of us has to do that... and I have my doubts that preset rules are going to completely be the answer, but hey, you can do what you like if you believe that preset rules might be the answer for you or for anyone else.

[Miles2006]

This statement sounds misleading morespecially to newbie because it will be unreasonable to invest in bitcoin with the mindset that you can withdraw your profit whenever you feels like , bitcoin investment is best appreciated when view in terms of longer term.unless those that are fucking around with trading and bitcoin is unlike gambling or shitcoin were you can gamble in or out with the plans of making quick profit.
There is no time that is not right to hold bitcoin and also it depends on our accumulation plans, as new investor who are still in there early stage of bitcoin accumulation should focus more on acquiring more bitcoin and hold for 8-10 yrs or longer.

Let’s not get the whole concept wrong except for those viewing bitcoin from a different angle which involves trade, taking out profit involves a different strategy also not all investors can withdraw when they’ve not gotten a good portion except they want to trade with the market which seems wrong for everyone not just newbies, lose will definitely stand as the end result for anyone with such mindset. An investor can hold beyond and it still don’t depend all on the market price neither accumulating strategy but consistent buying can guarantee an investor a good portfolio for long run also if there’s a stable cash flow investing becomes easy with the necessary management, when to buy should not stand as a problem because bitcoin can be accumulated at any given point and still yield profit due to the volatility.

[Zackz5000]

This statement sounds misleading morespecially to newbie because it will be unreasonable to invest in bitcoin with the mindset that you can withdraw your profit whenever you feels like , bitcoin investment is best appreciated when view in terms of longer term.unless those that are fucking around with trading and bitcoin is unlike gambling or shitcoin were you can gamble in or out with the plans of making quick profit.
There is no time that is not right to hold bitcoin and also it depends on our accumulation plans, as new investor who are still in there early stage of bitcoin accumulation should focus more on acquiring more bitcoin and hold for 8-10 yrs or longer.

Let’s not get the whole concept wrong except for those viewing bitcoin from a different angle which involves trade, taking out profit involves a different strategy also not all investors can withdraw when they’ve not gotten a good portion except they want to trade with the market which seems wrong for everyone not just newbies, lose will definitely stand as the end result for anyone with such mindset. An investor can hold beyond and it still don’t depend all on the market price neither accumulating strategy but consistent buying can guarantee an investor a good portfolio for long run also if there’s a stable cash flow investing becomes easy with the necessary management, when to buy should not stand as a problem because bitcoin can be accumulated at any given point and still yield profit due to the volatility.

It can be said that those who accumulate Bitcoin hodl Bitcoin for 4-10 and more will earn more profit than those who actually trade Bitcoin, it shouldn't be in conclusion that those who trade Bitcoin will definitely sell at lost no
But the strength is when will accumulate and hodl for 4-10 and more those that trade Bitcoin do make profit too but not much compare to investors who hodl for long.
Though people can choose to do what they want to do but is better an investor focus on accumulating enough Bitcoin and not selling which will definitely take longer time like 4-10 years or more before accumulating such quantity of Bitcoin.

[Tmoonz]

Agree with you. It is natural for investors to have differences as not everyone has the same mindset. But some investors who don't understand at first but realize it later. Bitcoin trading is not safe but there is an increased chance of losing money due to its volatility. But if a small amount of Bitcoin can be held regularly then it can definitely be a great asset. However, it can be difficult for those who are looking for a way to collect bitcoins for passive income from bitcoins because there are no areas where there is any way to earn passive income through bitcoins. Bitcoin's value has steadily increased since its inception and this trend continues. That's why holding Bitcoin is definitely profitable. But surely an investor should not only consider the profit but also consider its positive and negative aspects and then invest.

 He should also know how much he is qualified

You don't even need any qualification to be able to hold bitcoin. Bitcoin long term hold is open to everyone. The only thing needed is to have your money for investment. Aside this there is no other qualifications needed. Buy your bitcoin according to how you have programmed your DCA frequencies.

or capable of long-term investment.

So what happens if he thinks he is not capable for long term investment? Should he then go for trading instead? For me  all investors are capable of long term bitcoin investment. It's just about your mindset and your determination to hold bitcoin for a long time, at least 4 years. Bitcoin wasn't designed for some people to be capable of holding, while others are not. Bitcoin gave everyone a level playing ground. Wether you see yourself as being capable or not, is your decision alone.

This is a long-term approach to investing in Bitcoin and by adding more elements (Discretionary income and floating cash) to it, you can protect your investment from the gamble called trading. This is going to be a successful journey for you where you have a successful combination of financial success with Bitcoin stacking. With a long term bitcoin plan if one does not have the ability to do so there should be no need for him to take risks as he should decide whether to stop versus taking short term risks even though the DCA method should exist for him and he is huge stash from any size savings can get.

In order to get effective success from Bitcoin one should emphasize on depositing on a continuous basis and should have multiple or more depositing efforts than in one cycle (as you mentioned 4 years). Your success depends on getting a large holding by increasing your savings scope with discretionary income Here your mental strength and discretion can be taken as the criteria for success.

No matter how much of contingency planning exercise we may have done in accumulating bitcoin  and our continuous depositing in bitcoin through the dca strategy for one cycle or more is not a guarantee that our investment in bitcoin will be successfull that is why it is always adviceable to invest what you can afford to loose ,bitcoin investment is a good investment but still  not a guarantee that our investment in bitcoin will be successfull after a cycle or two  ,that is next 8-10yrs.

I frawn at that bolded part it seems to be technically belittling Bitcoin and it doesn't portray Bitcoin, such narrative is mostly used in the gambling session where bettors are advised to use only the money that they can afford to lose, Bitcoin is nothing to be compared to gambling even though we might suggest that there is no guarantee in Bitcoin investment but i still doubt if any money invested in Bitcoin can be completely lost if an investor didn't sell on pressure, if we are pretty decisive at about the potential Bitcoin holds then is more better we say we should invest an amount that we can be comfortable with or probably not going to make use of within the time line of 4 years and above.

[Pi-network314159]

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

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Do you need an example?

Let's say there were a couple of guys who got into bitcoin about 10 years ago, so around November 2014 and perhaps the guys were in their early 40s at that time, and so one of them largely accumulated and sold small amounts along the way (Hypothetical 1) and the other one (Hypothetical 2) sold too many BTC too soon.  Let's say that both of them largely accumulated bitcoin for 6 years, so they were pretty aggressive about their BTC investment and bought about $150 worth of BTC for every week for those six years and then so each of them invested around $47k and they accumulated right around 55 BTC... so surely not bad.... Perhaps Hypothetical 1 might have sold around 10 of his BTC at various points after November 2020, so he still has around 45 BTC, yet hypothetical 2, decided to sell all of his BTC around November 2020 because he was just too stressed about his BTC, and surely he was able to get $20k each of of his BTC, so hypothetical 2 ended up getting over $1 million for his BTC, and he was able to buy some property, cars and even go on a few vacations for experiences.. He had to pay taxes too.. but sure, he still had decently good sized profits from his having had accumulated BTC for 6 years and he deserved a reward, no?

This story is very interesting. Well according to the story and or narration I see that hypothetical 2 may have gotten a decently good size profit from his $150 investment in each week in 6 years with a total of $47k worth of bitcoin just as hypothetical 1 but his reward can not be as thesame as hypothetical 1.

Yes hypothetical 2 deserves a reward, but the reward would have been better off if he could have hold it way longer. Let say the $1m realisation from selling all his 55btc could solve most of his problems then, but he may not have opportunity to acquire such amount of bitcoin cheap as he did way back 2014 today. I think hypothetical 1 deserve a better reward. Because if he held his 45 btc till current date, he will be in position of about $3.32m according to bitcoin price at this time of typing, which is $73900. So he has made and additional $2.3m profit compeard to hypothetical 2.

I personally believe that Hypothetical 1 would have had been much better off than Hypothetical 2 because he largely just hung onto most of his coins, but hey whatever guys can do what they like and they can follow whatever plan that they like in terms of how they might decide to manage their BTC once they reach their accumulation goal.  I also think that selling large portions of your BTC is dumb, even though people can do what they like including that they may well still be in quite large profits from their decision to get into bitcoin and to get out (so they profited a lot by having had been in bitcoin), even though they end up making the wrong choice in regards to how to manage their BTC once they had spent so much time, energy and even value building up their BTC holdings over several years.

You speak as if you don't care but I know you do. Because if you don't care you wouldn't have been advising against selling too quickly. But I know people will still mess up by selling down the road after much warning, but the truth will never depart even as most people would likely sell way too quickly. Like I earlier said btc investment is a matter of choice. Just like taking the Camel to the stream but not forcing it to drink from the stream.

How are you going to manage your coins if you get into a situation like these two guys after 6 years accumulating and feeling that you have reached your BTC accumulation goals?

If I had a six year plan and it happens that I made somuch profit in the interval of 6 year and I discovered that my 1 btc of 2020 is worth $20k which my total investment of 55btc was $47k then I will sell only 1 to 5 to shave off the additional 5 from the 55 making a round figure of about 50btc then changing my plan by adding additional 6 years. Though I may sell along the line but would not sell all too quickly. To cut the whole story short I would have like to do like the hypothetical 1.

[JayJuanGee]

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

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Do you need an example?

Let's say there were a couple of guys who got into bitcoin about 10 years ago, so around November 2014 and perhaps the guys were in their early 40s at that time, and so one of them largely accumulated and sold small amounts along the way (Hypothetical 1) and the other one (Hypothetical 2) sold too many BTC too soon.  Let's say that both of them largely accumulated bitcoin for 6 years, so they were pretty aggressive about their BTC investment and bought about $150 worth of BTC for every week for those six years and then so each of them invested around $47k and they accumulated right around 55 BTC... so surely not bad.... Perhaps Hypothetical 1 might have sold around 10 of his BTC at various points after November 2020, so he still has around 45 BTC, yet hypothetical 2, decided to sell all of his BTC around November 2020 because he was just too stressed about his BTC, and surely he was able to get $20k each of of his BTC, so hypothetical 2 ended up getting over $1 million for his BTC, and he was able to buy some property, cars and even go on a few vacations for experiences.. He had to pay taxes too.. but sure, he still had decently good sized profits from his having had accumulated BTC for 6 years and he deserved a reward, no?

This story is very interesting. Well according to the story and or narration I see that hypothetical 2 may have gotten a decently good size profit from his $150 investment in each week in 6 years with a total of $47k worth of bitcoin just as hypothetical 1 but his reward can not be as thesame as hypothetical 1.

Yes hypothetical 2 deserves a reward, but the reward would have been better off if he could have hold it way longer. Let say the $1m realisation from selling all his 55btc could solve most of his problems then, but he may not have opportunity to acquire such amount of bitcoin cheap as he did way back 2014 today. I think hypothetical 1 deserve a better reward. Because if he held his 45 btc till current date, he will be in position of about $3.32m according to bitcoin price at this time of typing, which is $73900. So he has made and additional $2.3m profit compeard to hypothetical 2.

I personally believe that Hypothetical 1 would have had been much better off than Hypothetical 2 because he largely just hung onto most of his coins, but hey whatever guys can do what they like and they can follow whatever plan that they like in terms of how they might decide to manage their BTC once they reach their accumulation goal.  I also think that selling large portions of your BTC is dumb, even though people can do what they like including that they may well still be in quite large profits from their decision to get into bitcoin and to get out (so they profited a lot by having had been in bitcoin), even though they end up making the wrong choice in regards to how to manage their BTC once they had spent so much time, energy and even value building up their BTC holdings over several years.

You speak as if you don't care but I know you do. Because if you don't care you wouldn't have been advising against selling too quickly. But I know people will still mess up by selling down the road after much warning, but the truth will never depart even as most people would likely sell way too quickly. Like I earlier said btc investment is a matter of choice. Just like taking the Camel to the stream but not forcing it to drink from the stream.

How are you going to manage your coins if you get into a situation like these two guys after 6 years accumulating and feeling that you have reached your BTC accumulation goals?

If I had a six year plan and it happens that I made somuch profit in the interval of 6 year and I discovered that my 1 btc of 2020 is worth $20k which my total investment of 55btc was $47k then I will sell only 1 to 5 to shave off the additional 5 from the 55 making a round figure of about 50btc then changing my plan by adding additional 6 years. Though I may sell along the line but would not sell all too quickly. To cut the whole story short I would have like to do like the hypothetical 1.

The truth of the matter is that it can be very tempting to sell most if not all of your bitcoin just like hypothetical 2 did, and he ended up with nearly $1 million in profits out of a $47k investment, so it is difficult to proclaim that he did not profit, even though he would have had been better off to hold onto more of his BTC, perhaps some variation .. yet whenever any of us is attempting to create a somewhat realistic hypothetical comparison, we have to show how there can be a considerably great dilemma - including that we do not have the advantage of hindsight when we are caught up in the moment and we might have a variety of dilemmas that include temptations to consume and/or invest and even perhaps speculating that we might end up better off by selling most if not all of our BTC...

yet the more that we learn about bitcoin, the more we likely figure out that there are quite a few advantages to try to employ longer term HODLing and accumulating strategies, even though surely also at some point we may well transition out of mostly accumulating and into mostly selling (or shaving off here and there), and we still might be able to figure out a fair and reasonable balance that allows us to start reasonably withdrawing bitcoin even if we know that with the passage of time we are going to end up with fewer and fewer and fewer bitcoin... but having fewer and fewer bitcoin still might end up being an o.k. result once we got to a status that we consider to be over accumulation so shaving off bitcoin from our stash along the way ends up being an approach that we consider to be acceptable to our overall situation.

[Justbillywitt]

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based  withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains.

You should know more better that, you will only have this problem when you are chasing a short term profits in bitcoin. But if you are in for the long term, you shouldn't be having this problems, trying to strike a balance wether to take profit or not. Especially if you are still in the early stage of your accumulation, your focus should just be on the accumulation and allow whatever that's happening in the market to play out it is not your business. If you successfully hold your bitcoin for at least a circle, you won't be having any problem again when you want to take profit, because bitcoin price might have appreciated far more than what you got it for. So at that time any price you want to cash in will be profit for you. Because over the years bitcoin price is expected to be making more of an upward trends than downward trends.

[lizarder]

You should know more better that, you will only have this problem when you are chasing a short term profits in bitcoin. But if you are in for the long term, you shouldn't be having this problems, trying to strike a balance wether to take profit or not. Especially if you are still in the early stage of your accumulation, your focus should just be on the accumulation and allow whatever that's happening in the market to play out it is not your business. If you successfully hold your bitcoin for at least a circle, you won't be having any problem again when you want to take profit, because bitcoin price might have appreciated far more than what you got it for. So at that time any price you want to cash in will be profit for you. Because over the years bitcoin price is expected to be making more of an upward trends than downward trends.

The real question with what pattern does someone chase profit in the short term because if it is done on investment then there will be no problem because even if bitcoin gets a correction they can wait for the next increase after the recovery process occurs. Except when people are involved in future trading then the potential for loss or loss will be very large especially if they do not understand trading properly. If you invest, I think it won't be a problem because we can wait for the next price increase even though the purchase price is much higher.

That's why investing is much easier to do and people don't need to think much as long as they understand that bitcoin will continue to gain momentum to rise after the correction occurs. Investing also allows someone to avoid panic because they don't need to check the price all the time, so the focus can be more on how to accumulate and we can slowly collect bitcoins in a more effective way.

[Ricardo11]

if we have reached the conclusion that we believe that we have accumulated enough BTC, there can be dilemmas in regards to how to manage our holdings or how we might decide to carry out any kind of plan to start withdrawing bitcoin and if there might be price based withdrawals and/or time based  withdrawals, and surely we still might have cashflow coming in from other sources, yet we also might be inclined to pull the fuck you lever, which is a way to move onto not having to work anymore, yet at that point,

From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.

The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains.

You should know more better that, you will only have this problem when you are chasing a short term profits in bitcoin. But if you are in for the long term, you shouldn't be having this problems, trying to strike a balance wether to take profit or not. Especially if you are still in the early stage of your accumulation, your focus should just be on the accumulation and allow whatever that's happening in the market to play out it is not your business. If you successfully hold your bitcoin for at least a circle, you won't be having any problem again when you want to take profit, because bitcoin price might have appreciated far more than what you got it for. So at that time any price you want to cash in will be profit for you. Because over the years bitcoin price is expected to be making more of an upward trends than downward trends.

I agree with you, Bitcoin is a currency in which it is possible to earn sufficient money only through long-term holding. Investors risk losing their money due to short-term holding, because the Bitcoin market is volatile, its price can decrease at any time and increase at any time, so one should refrain from making investment decisions for the purpose of short-term holding. The goal of every investor should be to invest and hold Bitcoin through a long-term DCA method. At least for 6 to 10 years, because if we study the past of Bitcoin, we will get an idea of its real potential and we will also understand very well what stage Bitcoin will go to in the future. So plan a long-term DCA for investment, only then you can achieve real success in Bitcoin.

[DubemIfedigbo001]

Ultimately people can do whatever they like, including that they could come into bitcoin by presuming that they were going to trade and then convert their plan into an investment or the opposite they can come in planning to invest for 4-10 years or longer and decide to abandon ship.  Frequently when we are discussing what people should or should not do, we may well be creating some presumptions about what bitcoin is good for on a general level rather than trying to tell individuals what to do, since people can do whatever they want, including dumb stuff which tends to be trying to trade bitcoin rather than investing into it.

I so much subscribe to this your phrase because I've come to know that in order to make people take the right decision, you must make them see reasons for them to take that step and not necessarily advising them on what to do. By listing the advantages of investing over trading with respect to historical data and success stories of investors to a newbie and sighting the little requirements for being an investor, you might as well have provided a neutral ground for the newbie to advise himself and choose investment over trading or go fuck himself up a little and come back running into the direction of investment after being kicked at the ass by his trading inefficiencies.

How are you going to manage your coins if you get into a situation like these two guys after 6 years accumulating and feeling that you have reached your BTC accumulation goals?

I would answer this question with regard to my knowledge before and that of present.

Earlier before now, without much knowledge on the value prosects of bitcoin and the compounding effect on the profitability of investments on a longer-term goal, I would have been the guy in the second scenario who sold off a lot to enjoy his life momentarily and loose the future gains that came with holding for longer.

But armed with the level of information I have received since joining this forum and most especially locating this thread, I wouldn't even sell any bitcoin if I don't need funds on an emergency note but would continue to hold as long as I can to boost my profitability. I would be like the guy that sold a few bitcoins from his investment or more so a better version of him who might not sell any and would continue accumulating to further increase my portfolio for more profits in the future.

[EclipseXcrypto]

Any newbie who categorises short-term holding and trading as the same thing has a long way to go as they need to learn the difference and make a decision on which one they want to do and which one will favour them.

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Do you need an example?

Let's say there were a couple of guys who got into bitcoin about 10 years ago, so around November 2014 and perhaps the guys were in their early 40s at that time, and so one of them largely accumulated and sold small amounts along the way (Hypothetical 1) and the other one (Hypothetical 2) sold too many BTC too soon.  Let's say that both of them largely accumulated bitcoin for 6 years, so they were pretty aggressive about their BTC investment and bought about $150 worth of BTC for every week for those six years and then so each of them invested around $47k and they accumulated right around 55 BTC... so surely not bad.... Perhaps Hypothetical 1 might have sold around 10 of his BTC at various points after November 2020, so he still has around 45 BTC, yet hypothetical 2, decided to sell all of his BTC around November 2020 because he was just too stressed about his BTC, and surely he was able to get $20k each of of his BTC, so hypothetical 2 ended up getting over $1 million for his BTC, and he was able to buy some property, cars and even go on a few vacations for experiences.. He had to pay taxes too.. but sure, he still had decently good sized profits from his having had accumulated BTC for 6 years and he deserved a reward, no?

This story is very interesting. Well according to the story and or narration I see that hypothetical 2 may have gotten a decently good size profit from his $150 investment in each week in 6 years with a total of $47k worth of bitcoin just as hypothetical 1 but his reward can not be as thesame as hypothetical 1.

Yes hypothetical 2 deserves a reward, but the reward would have been better off if he could have hold it way longer. Let say the $1m realisation from selling all his 55btc could solve most of his problems then, but he may not have opportunity to acquire such amount of bitcoin cheap as he did way back 2014 today. I think hypothetical 1 deserve a better reward. Because if he held his 45 btc till current date, he will be in position of about $3.32m according to bitcoin price at this time of typing, which is $73900. So he has made and additional $2.3m profit compeard to hypothetical 2.

I personally believe that Hypothetical 1 would have had been much better off than Hypothetical 2 because he largely just hung onto most of his coins, but hey whatever guys can do what they like and they can follow whatever plan that they like in terms of how they might decide to manage their BTC once they reach their accumulation goal.  I also think that selling large portions of your BTC is dumb, even though people can do what they like including that they may well still be in quite large profits from their decision to get into bitcoin and to get out (so they profited a lot by having had been in bitcoin), even though they end up making the wrong choice in regards to how to manage their BTC once they had spent so much time, energy and even value building up their BTC holdings over several years.

You speak as if you don't care but I know you do. Because if you don't care you wouldn't have been advising against selling too quickly. But I know people will still mess up by selling down the road after much warning, but the truth will never depart even as most people would likely sell way too quickly. Like I earlier said btc investment is a matter of choice. Just like taking the Camel to the stream but not forcing it to drink from the stream.

How are you going to manage your coins if you get into a situation like these two guys after 6 years accumulating and feeling that you have reached your BTC accumulation goals?

If I had a six year plan and it happens that I made somuch profit in the interval of 6 year and I discovered that my 1 btc of 2020 is worth $20k which my total investment of 55btc was $47k then I will sell only 1 to 5 to shave off the additional 5 from the 55 making a round figure of about 50btc then changing my plan by adding additional 6 years. Though I may sell along the line but would not sell all too quickly. To cut the whole story short I would have like to do like the hypothetical 1.

The truth of the matter is that it can be very tempting to sell most if not all of your bitcoin just like hypothetical 2 did, and he ended up with nearly $1 million in profits out of a $47k investment, so it is difficult to proclaim that he did not profit, even though he would have had been better off to hold onto more of his BTC, perhaps some variation .. yet whenever any of us is attempting to create a somewhat realistic hypothetical comparison, we have to show how there can be a considerably great dilemma - including that we do not have the advantage of hindsight when we are caught up in the moment and we might have a variety of dilemmas that include temptations to consume and/or invest and even perhaps speculating that we might end up better off by selling most if not all of our BTC...

yet the more that we learn about bitcoin, the more we likely figure out that there are quite a few advantages to try to employ longer term HODLing and accumulating strategies, even though surely also at some point we may well transition out of mostly accumulating and into mostly selling (or shaving off here and there), and we still might be able to figure out a fair and reasonable balance that allows us to start reasonably withdrawing bitcoin even if we know that with the passage of time we are going to end up with fewer and fewer and fewer bitcoin... but having fewer and fewer bitcoin still might end up being an o.k. result once we got to a status that we consider to be over accumulation so shaving off bitcoin from our stash along the way ends up being an approach that we consider to be acceptable to our overall situation.

Hypothetical 2 decision to sell all at once might have immediate rewards but also missing out on future gains. It's bad to see all that time and efforts spent accumulating bitcoin only to sell at once for a big chunk, hypothetical 2 could have thought about the potential future profits and benefits of holding onto some of his Bitcoin. By keeping a portion he might have set himself up for even greater gains, especially if the market continues to show a lot of growth potentials. The temptation to sell can be strong, especially when a significant profit is at stake, but hypothetical 2 would have looked back and think it would be better to hold onto more btc than sell all.

Hypothetical 1 approach of holding onto most of his coins definitely seems like a solid strategy in the future. Especially due to bitcoin potentials for growth, by holding onto most of his btc  he could benefit from the long-term growth potential of Bitcoin.

[Shadiq]

Bitcoin is a different kind of asset compared to other traditional money and asset in the stock exchange where we can easily withdraw our profits whenever we feel like. Because of the volatility nature of Bitcoin its a difficult to know when the right time to hold or sell. From my study the price can go up a lot in value, but it can quickly drop down, So, the dilemma is; Do we wish to hold onto our Bitcoin with the hope that it will rise in value or do we to sell some of it when we see some gains, especially when the market looks very shaky in the eyes. Since holding simply means we can get more in the future, but can also risk losing some profits if the price falls.
The main challenge here is balancing between taking advantage of Bitcoin’s potential for growth while managing the risk of price drops and figuring out when is the right time to cash out or make moves without getting hurt by market swings. This is where the long term benefits comes over the short term quick gains. I can say for an investor who has invested up to 10 to 15 years he can take some little profits if he has things that are important to do. He can completely cash out if he is satisfied with the investment growth and profit and perhaps chooses to shift into other opportunities.

I find analogy with trade as you say. When you plan for the long term, the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices won't affect your investment. Your retention period will be around 4 years-12 years or if cycle is calculated it will be at least 1 cycle or more. But I personally prefer 3 cycles or longer. If you buy regularly with a 3-cycle or 12-year holding plan, you won't be affected by the ups and downs in Bitcoin prices or volatility in the Bitcoin market. Because after 3 cycles I think there may be a big difference between the average buy price and sell price of your bitcoins.

If you are planning to sell bitcoins for a small profit for a living or a temporary gain that is not set in time, then the volatility of the bitcoin price may affect you and you may lose a lot from now on. You may be interested in hoddling with the idea of ​​temporary gains, where you will be able to build a much larger portfolio and Bitcoin is more likely to give you better returns. If you are not patient enough to hold for long then you can plan alternatives, where you have less chance of losing.