Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[Son Of Blockchain (SOB)]

Bitcoin investment is never for those with unstable income.  Bitcoin investment requires stable income and this is where you can also have discretionary income,  without stable income it is impossible to have or even if you do since the income is not stable and after you might have finished spending your discretionary fund and waiting for the next income, the next place to get money to survive can be your Bitcoin investment,  and all what you have struggled to accumulate can end up being nothing.

You make a lot of assumptions if you are proclaiming that stable income is needed prior to getting started investing into bitcoin.   You do not need stable income to get started investing in bitcoin. All you need is discretionary funds.

There is a difference between getting started and maintaining your bitcoin investment.

Investing it 4-10 years or longer, and if your plan is to get in and out of bitcoin in less than 4 years, then you are likely trading rather than investing.

Accordingly, if you want to continue to invest for 4-10 years or longer, then you have to have ways to pay for your living expenses so that you can hold whatever bitcoin that you bought, so in some sense you are correct about a need to continue to earn money to pay for expenses, otherwise bitcoin would need to be used to pay expenses.

Your post fails to account for the difference between getting started investing in bitcoin versus maintaining investing into bitcoin.  You seem to be presuming them to be the same, as if you have to have your whole expenses for the next 4-10 years figured out before you can start buying bitcoin. 

Actually in order to start investing in bitcoin all you need is $10.  Perhaps you were going to buy a pack of cigarettes with your $10. It is not like you needed the cigarettes, so if you reallocate that $10 into bitcoin, then perhaps you have a better chance with that in 4-10 years or longer than you would have had to have smoked the $10.

Do you think that you need a stable income for the next 4-10 years or longer in order to buy a $10 pack of cigarettes?  Why would there be a difference with money put into bitcoin as compared to discretionary consumption goods?  There are other examples of ways that people spend their money without having assurance in regards to the stability of their income in the coming 4-10 years, and if they plan to continue to live for the next 4-10 years, they are likely anticipating that they are going to earn an income in the next 4-10 years and beyond, and they don't have their income all guaranteed prior to their spending money on consumption goods, especially the discretionary consumption goods.

In other words, having a stable income is important but not necessarily compulsory to be able to start investing in Bitcoin. Someone who's ready to invest can choose to buy with what they spare for Bitcoin through their discretionary but maintaining it is the problem cause to buy consistently an investor would need steady supply of cash to their discretionary for purchasing it.
 That's why I agree with his statement to an extent, anyways those who come into Bitcoin investment with the mindset of investing for just few years other than a complete circle shouldn't regard themselves as investors, most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

[Mekie21]

what the hell happened to having an emergency funds,, huh? Do you think people can just dump money into Bitcoin without creating a backup and think that nothing will happen. The whole essence of emergency funds is to handle unnecessary expenses that you may be faced while investing. Having an unstable income isn't the problem man, the problem is not creating backup funds. Investing without your emergency funds is pure gambling.

That's why people who jump in without an emergency fund are always the first to panic, especially if the market experiences a slight correction. They might follow the trend, create drama, then create a story, or even complain privately, blaming the market and Bitcoin, when the problem is actually a poor foundation from the start. But, In my opinion the most important thing is to not lose our common sense.

That's not true, investing without emergency funds will never make an investor to panic because we don't actually need an emergency funds to invest in Bitcoin rather what we need to invest in Bitcoin is our discretionary income and an investor will surely panic when they invest with funds outside their discretionary because it is obvious the money can be for expenses so don't get it twisted, you can actually invest in Bitcoin without your emergency funds but it is very necessary to set it up before challenge arise.

I totally disagree with you on this. We all know that discretionary are funds that we might not use immediately since we have settled our present needs and bills, we can as well use our discretionary funds for our bitcoin investment, but that’s not the case with emergency funds, we keep emergency funds for unexpected personal crisis which sometimes discretionary funds will not be sufficient to solve. In a scenario where you don’t have an emergency funds and you are into Bitcoin investment probably you accumulate Bitcoin via DCA method of over 8-10 years, mind you, you’ve used your discretionary funds for investment, when emergency crisis arise  and you don’t have who to run to, you’ll definitely look at your last line of hope which is your investment.

Let’s assume you acquired a loan to solve the present crisis and you are expected to pay that loan in few months time, you won’t be able stick to your DCA routine, because you’re trying to pay up your outstanding loan. In a worst scenario where you can’t get a loan, your investment portfolio is you only hope left. Assuming you’ve got emergency funds available you won’t go through all these stress. So I’ll recommend you debunk the thought that you can have a steady running Bitcoin portfolio without an emergency funds.

[reagansimms]

~~~

I totally disagree with you on this. We all know that discretionary are funds that we might not use immediately since we have settled our present needs and bills, we can as well use our discretionary funds for our bitcoin investment, but that’s not the case with emergency funds, we keep emergency funds for unexpected personal crisis which sometimes discretionary funds will not be sufficient to solve. In a scenario where you don’t have an emergency funds and you are into Bitcoin investment probably you accumulate Bitcoin via DCA method of over 8-10 years, mind you, you’ve used your discretionary funds for investment, when emergency crisis arise  and you don’t have who to run to, you’ll definitely look at your last line of hope which is your investment.

Let’s assume you acquired a loan to solve the present crisis and you are expected to pay that loan in few months time, you won’t be able stick to your DCA routine, because you’re trying to pay up your outstanding loan. In a worst scenario where you can’t get a loan, your investment portfolio is you only hope left. Assuming you’ve got emergency funds available you won’t go through all these stress. So I’ll recommend you debunk the thought that you can have a steady running Bitcoin portfolio without an emergency funds.

This is where investors must separate emergency funds and discretionary income so they can invest more calmly and focus on the long term. Investors who invest with discretionary funds will feel more comfortable and less likely to panic if Bitcoin prices drop because they are not dependent on that money for their daily needs. Emergency funds also play an important role, but their function is for living expenses (when suddenly needed), not for investment.

It will be very difficult to focus on DCA and keep investments going in the long term if you have loans that must be paid in a few months, in situations like this, investment will be the only hope when facing financial pressures like this. An emergency fund is like a safety net that can make investors feel more stable, less panicked in the face of a crisis, and can always focus on maintaining their investments because they are no longer worried about the source of funds for daily needs. Having a stable Bitcoin portfolio without the support of an emergency fund will significantly impact the long-term sustainability of your investment.

[SilverCryptoBullet]

It will be very difficult to focus on DCA and keep investments going in the long term if you have loans that must be paid in a few months, in situations like this, investment will be the only hope when facing financial pressures like this. An emergency fund is like a safety net that can make investors feel more stable, less panicked in the face of a crisis, and can always focus on maintaining their investments because they are no longer worried about the source of funds for daily needs. Having a stable Bitcoin portfolio without the support of an emergency fund will significantly impact the long-term sustainability of your investment.

People who don't have good finance, don't have good income and especially discretionary income, but make their loan for DCA Bitcoin already did bad practice. Without good finance, and with a loan and loan expiration as well as loan repayment waiting ahead, any bought bitcoin will become kind of liability, not asset. As liability, it has uncontrolled risk of loan expiration and repayment call while unfortunately and dangerously such calls might come when your Bitcoin portfolio has negative ROI.

Investment is only good if it is with own money, no loan and no financial pressure. DCA is only a strategy that can not resolve your personal financial status and can not make your investment safer if you took high risk with loan since your beginning.

[Brizi5000]

~~~

I totally disagree with you on this. We all know that discretionary are funds that we might not use immediately since we have settled our present needs and bills, we can as well use our discretionary funds for our bitcoin investment, but that’s not the case with emergency funds, we keep emergency funds for unexpected personal crisis which sometimes discretionary funds will not be sufficient to solve. In a scenario where you don’t have an emergency funds and you are into Bitcoin investment probably you accumulate Bitcoin via DCA method of over 8-10 years, mind you, you’ve used your discretionary funds for investment, when emergency crisis arise  and you don’t have who to run to, you’ll definitely look at your last line of hope which is your investment.

Let’s assume you acquired a loan to solve the present crisis and you are expected to pay that loan in few months time, you won’t be able stick to your DCA routine, because you’re trying to pay up your outstanding loan. In a worst scenario where you can’t get a loan, your investment portfolio is you only hope left. Assuming you’ve got emergency funds available you won’t go through all these stress. So I’ll recommend you debunk the thought that you can have a steady running Bitcoin portfolio without an emergency funds.

This is where investors must separate emergency funds and discretionary income so they can invest more calmly and focus on the long term. Investors who invest with discretionary funds will feel more comfortable and less likely to panic if Bitcoin prices drop because they are not dependent on that money for their daily needs. Emergency funds also play an important role, but their function is for living expenses (when suddenly needed), not for investment.

It will be very difficult to focus on DCA and keep investments going in the long term if you have loans that must be paid in a few months, in situations like this, investment will be the only hope when facing financial pressures like this. An emergency fund is like a safety net that can make investors feel more stable, less panicked in the face of a crisis, and can always focus on maintaining their investments because they are no longer worried about the source of funds for daily needs. Having a stable Bitcoin portfolio without the support of an emergency fund will significantly impact the long-term sustainability of your investment.

your explanation is well understood as you have differentiated ways or reasons why its good to invest with a discretionary income and also why is good and necessary for we to have an emergency funds. the discretionary income and emergency funds doesn't serve the same purpose in our bitcoin investment, each of them is very important and have its separate needs. from here, investing with a discretionary income will primarily help the investor not to panic or be too emotional when the market is bad or not going our way because that money we put in the  investment is the one we wont be needing anytime soon. while the need for emergency funds will be like the one that will prevent us not to temper or tend towards selling our bitcoin investment whenever we are faced with some real life emergency situations needing some cash to sort them out. and i will also add that when taking loan to invest in bitcoin we should not depend on our investment to repay the loan because its very volatile and apart from it being volatile it might make you to sell off too quickly when is not yet time and before you could realize it you will turn to bitcoin trader and not investor.

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin investment is never for those with unstable income.  Bitcoin investment requires stable income and this is where you can also have discretionary income,  without stable income it is impossible to have or even if you do since the income is not stable and after you might have finished spending your discretionary fund and waiting for the next income, the next place to get money to survive can be your Bitcoin investment,  and all what you have struggled to accumulate can end up being nothing.

You make a lot of assumptions if you are proclaiming that stable income is needed prior to getting started investing into bitcoin.   You do not need stable income to get started investing in bitcoin. All you need is discretionary funds.
There is a difference between getting started and maintaining your bitcoin investment.

Investing it 4-10 years or longer, and if your plan is to get in and out of bitcoin in less than 4 years, then you are likely trading rather than investing.
Accordingly, if you want to continue to invest for 4-10 years or longer, then you have to have ways to pay for your living expenses so that you can hold whatever bitcoin that you bought, so in some sense you are correct about a need to continue to earn money to pay for expenses, otherwise bitcoin would need to be used to pay expenses.

Your post fails to account for the difference between getting started investing in bitcoin versus maintaining investing into bitcoin.  You seem to be presuming them to be the same, as if you have to have your whole expenses for the next 4-10 years figured out before you can start buying bitcoin. 

Actually in order to start investing in bitcoin all you need is $10.  Perhaps you were going to buy a pack of cigarettes with your $10. It is not like you needed the cigarettes, so if you reallocate that $10 into bitcoin, then perhaps you have a better chance with that in 4-10 years or longer than you would have had to have smoked the $10.

Do you think that you need a stable income for the next 4-10 years or longer in order to buy a $10 pack of cigarettes?  Why would there be a difference with money put into bitcoin as compared to discretionary consumption goods?  There are other examples of ways that people spend their money without having assurance in regards to the stability of their income in the coming 4-10 years, and if they plan to continue to live for the next 4-10 years, they are likely anticipating that they are going to earn an income in the next 4-10 years and beyond, and they don't have their income all guaranteed prior to their spending money on consumption goods, especially the discretionary consumption goods.

In other words, having a stable income is important but not necessarily compulsory to be able to start investing in Bitcoin. Someone who's ready to invest can choose to buy with what they spare for Bitcoin through their discretionary but maintaining it is the problem cause to buy consistently an investor would need steady supply of cash to their discretionary for purchasing it.

Part of the reason that DCA works so well it because people can allocate as much as they are able to allocate into bitcoin as the money comes in.

Sure, if a person has been working in the same position for several years and receiving an income for several years, then it is more likely that the income will continue and it is more likely that they have saved up a cash cushion in the event that their income were to dry up suddenly.

If a person does not have a steady income and does not have a cash cushion, those things can be worked on while investing in bitcoin, and surely investing into bitcoin could provide an incentive to try to find a better paying job and/or a more certain and steady job.

That's why I agree with his statement to an extent, anyways those who come into Bitcoin investment with the mindset of investing for just few years other than a complete circle shouldn't regard themselves as investors, most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Yes.  A lot of things can happen to a person in terms of their income, their expenses and/or their health over 4 years time.  Some folks have been building their knowledge, their skills and their social connections so that they can earn good income into the future, and other folks do not make good preparations and/or maybe they are in a location in which it is quite difficult to find work that pays greater than a subsistence wage.

We cannot solve all of the world's problems, yet each person has to figure out their abilities to invest and to create circumstances for themselves so that they are not going to end up selling some or all of their bitcoin at a time that is not of their own choosing. 

If people are poor and they have poor income circumstances, then they might not be able to continue to invest in bitcoin without improving their income, expenses, job skills and/or health.

Part of my point related to there being a difference between getting started and putting conditions in place in order to be able to continue to invest in bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.

If people come to bitcoin and they fuck it up because they sell too much too soon or they treat bitcoin like a trade rather than an investment, then that is on them and they might have had missed the greatest opportunity that was in front of them, so individuals have to take action to learn about bitcoin, learn about themselves and put systems and practices in place to be able to be benefit from their knowing about bitcoin.

[PhilosopherKing]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

To buy bitcoin alone does not make you an investor,. Traders also buys Bitcoin just as the investors does. ,Vollatility in Bitcoin makes it possible for us to differentiate these traders from investors. those who buys Bitcoin and begins to get afraid by the price fluctuation and eventually sells because of it, is a straight up trader not an investor. Investors thinks in years and cycle and not days. But traders will always want to make quick profits by all means necessary.

[Barikui1]

To buy bitcoin alone does not make you an investor,. Traders also buys Bitcoin just as the investors does. ,Vollatility in Bitcoin makes it possible for us to differentiate these traders from investors. those who buys Bitcoin and begins to get afraid by the price fluctuation and eventually sells because of it, is a straight up trader not an investor. Investors thinks in years and cycle and not days. But traders will always want to make quick profits by all means necessary.

What differentiate a trader from an investor is the way they approach Bitcoin, they both have profit in mind but a trader wishes for quick profit, while an investor knows that he will have to go long term for him to reap the full dividend of his Bitcoin investment.
I don't think that volatility is what differentiate a trader from an investor because it's just one of the characteristics of Bitcoin, in my own opinion, their approach towards Bitcoin and their mindset is what differentiate them since a trader will always crave for quick profit, and he will do everything possible just to make quick money because he feels like he can outsmart the market, unlike an investor that has only the mindset of accumulating a huge unit of Bitcoin and hold strong believing that it's the most reliable way to make a fortune from his investment, so the difference is more of in their approach and mindset, than just volatility.

[Kaliandra]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years. What I don't quite understand is, if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

[Kelward]

To buy bitcoin alone does not make you an investor,. Traders also buys Bitcoin just as the investors does. ,Vollatility in Bitcoin makes it possible for us to differentiate these traders from investors. those who buys Bitcoin and begins to get afraid by the price fluctuation and eventually sells because of it, is a straight up trader not an investor. Investors thinks in years and cycle and not days. But traders will always want to make quick profits by all means necessary.

What differentiate a trader from an investor is the way they approach Bitcoin, they both have profit in mind but a trader wishes for quick profit, while an investor knows that he will have to go long term for him to reap the full dividend of his Bitcoin investment.
I don't think that volatility is what differentiate a trader from an investor because it's just one of the characteristics of Bitcoin, in my own opinion, their approach towards Bitcoin and their mindset is what differentiate them since a trader will always crave for quick profit, and he will do everything possible just to make quick money because he feels like he can outsmart the market, unlike an investor that has only the mindset of accumulating a huge unit of Bitcoin and hold strong believing that it's the most reliable way to make a fortune from his investment, so the difference is more of in their approach and mindset, than just volatility.

I agree with your opinion, Bitcoin is volatile for everyone that holds it but what basically differentiate between a trader and an investor is their mindsets, a trader wants quick profit while an investor wants long term assurance of profit. Because of their different mindsets for holding Bitcoin their approach will be different, a trader cannot imagine hodling Bitcoin for 8 years while an investor don't like the risk of short term profit and lose. Our concern and what we discuss in this thread is long term investment plans and how to achieve it, get a steady income, grow it, always fund your discretionary funds and do your DCA. Bitcoin has built a solid reputation and it has the potentials of reaching ATH, choose Bitcoin investment for peace of mind.

[Tonimez]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years.

Bitcoin trading and bitcoin investment are two distinct and opposing directions taken by different set of bitcoin enthusiasts. Bitcoin trading is synonymous to gambling and bitcoin gamblers also have same mentality as the conventional gamblers who believe they're risk takers. The bitcoin traders target dips to make a buy and the sell whenever they feel they have made a reasonable gain when bitcoin rises. These set of bitcoin enthusiasts see bitcoin as as trade and not an investment.

On the other hand, bitcoin investors have an investors' ideology. They invest in bitcoin with their excesses and they invest solely for future. This is the reason why they invest with only their discretionary income (alias Investment funds). This is the mindset of a good bitcoin investor. They invest with the hope of holding for a long-term say over two cycles or above ten years. These set of people regarded as bitcoin investors are intentional and they make provisions for emergency situations by creating emergency funds and backup funds which will allow them to have a cushion over their bitcoin portfolio.

What I don't quite understand is if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

It is very obvious that investing for 5 years time may not be like bitcoin gambling but it's definitely a short-term plan. Investing for 5 years is still not enough because in 5 years which is still within the range of one bitcoin cycle is not enough and there's still not high chances of making enough gains. Also, a five year accumulation period may not give you a good average cost per bitcoin yet.

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

There you go! Yeah sure, investing for a short term is a trade and there's a high risk of loosing your funds or not making a good profit. Infact, a bitcoin trader would somehow have a cumulative loss at the long run because you could sell at a price far lower than the price you would buy next or you are forced out of bitcoin investment completely.

[Rgram]

Part of the reason that DCA works so well it because people can allocate as much as they are able to allocate into bitcoin as the money comes in.

This is actually one ignored or not given attention to with the DCA strategy. Though it focuses on an averaging, it doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t go huge at a time. It’s mostly based on allocation, what you are comfortable to invest with at a particular time given how much you’ve got and how that amount mattered to you.

You can equally receive a good amount and decide to go 70-80% allocation for Bitcoin and that might be way above average but, that’s what you can allocate for that purpose at the end of the day and still be okay with it.

There would be times you wouldn’t go that much and maybe allocate just 10-20% and that still would be okay. The DCA strategy is just hands open and effective.

[Stormisover]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years. What I don't quite understand is, if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

Investors don't focuse on profits as compared to a trader whose motive is always to maximize profits on a short term, holding Bitcoin for 5 years is quite reasonable to be considered as an investor at least you where to hold for one cycle which is 4 years, 5 years of holding is one cycle and 12 months for me I think you can be called an investor even there is no guarantee of being in profits after this year but there is higher possibilities of having the compounded value of your asset within this period, for an investor hodling can take as long as 4 to 10 years or even more where you will be considering to add more to what you have or not and or want to take some profits from your investment, my logic is to hold for as long as necessary because no one knows the future.