Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[Son Of Blockchain (SOB)]

Bitcoin investment is never for those with unstable income.  Bitcoin investment requires stable income and this is where you can also have discretionary income,  without stable income it is impossible to have or even if you do since the income is not stable and after you might have finished spending your discretionary fund and waiting for the next income, the next place to get money to survive can be your Bitcoin investment,  and all what you have struggled to accumulate can end up being nothing.

You make a lot of assumptions if you are proclaiming that stable income is needed prior to getting started investing into bitcoin.   You do not need stable income to get started investing in bitcoin. All you need is discretionary funds.

There is a difference between getting started and maintaining your bitcoin investment.

Investing it 4-10 years or longer, and if your plan is to get in and out of bitcoin in less than 4 years, then you are likely trading rather than investing.

Accordingly, if you want to continue to invest for 4-10 years or longer, then you have to have ways to pay for your living expenses so that you can hold whatever bitcoin that you bought, so in some sense you are correct about a need to continue to earn money to pay for expenses, otherwise bitcoin would need to be used to pay expenses.

Your post fails to account for the difference between getting started investing in bitcoin versus maintaining investing into bitcoin.  You seem to be presuming them to be the same, as if you have to have your whole expenses for the next 4-10 years figured out before you can start buying bitcoin. 

Actually in order to start investing in bitcoin all you need is $10.  Perhaps you were going to buy a pack of cigarettes with your $10. It is not like you needed the cigarettes, so if you reallocate that $10 into bitcoin, then perhaps you have a better chance with that in 4-10 years or longer than you would have had to have smoked the $10.

Do you think that you need a stable income for the next 4-10 years or longer in order to buy a $10 pack of cigarettes?  Why would there be a difference with money put into bitcoin as compared to discretionary consumption goods?  There are other examples of ways that people spend their money without having assurance in regards to the stability of their income in the coming 4-10 years, and if they plan to continue to live for the next 4-10 years, they are likely anticipating that they are going to earn an income in the next 4-10 years and beyond, and they don't have their income all guaranteed prior to their spending money on consumption goods, especially the discretionary consumption goods.

In other words, having a stable income is important but not necessarily compulsory to be able to start investing in Bitcoin. Someone who's ready to invest can choose to buy with what they spare for Bitcoin through their discretionary but maintaining it is the problem cause to buy consistently an investor would need steady supply of cash to their discretionary for purchasing it.
 That's why I agree with his statement to an extent, anyways those who come into Bitcoin investment with the mindset of investing for just few years other than a complete circle shouldn't regard themselves as investors, most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

[Mekie21]

what the hell happened to having an emergency funds,, huh? Do you think people can just dump money into Bitcoin without creating a backup and think that nothing will happen. The whole essence of emergency funds is to handle unnecessary expenses that you may be faced while investing. Having an unstable income isn't the problem man, the problem is not creating backup funds. Investing without your emergency funds is pure gambling.

That's why people who jump in without an emergency fund are always the first to panic, especially if the market experiences a slight correction. They might follow the trend, create drama, then create a story, or even complain privately, blaming the market and Bitcoin, when the problem is actually a poor foundation from the start. But, In my opinion the most important thing is to not lose our common sense.

That's not true, investing without emergency funds will never make an investor to panic because we don't actually need an emergency funds to invest in Bitcoin rather what we need to invest in Bitcoin is our discretionary income and an investor will surely panic when they invest with funds outside their discretionary because it is obvious the money can be for expenses so don't get it twisted, you can actually invest in Bitcoin without your emergency funds but it is very necessary to set it up before challenge arise.

I totally disagree with you on this. We all know that discretionary are funds that we might not use immediately since we have settled our present needs and bills, we can as well use our discretionary funds for our bitcoin investment, but that’s not the case with emergency funds, we keep emergency funds for unexpected personal crisis which sometimes discretionary funds will not be sufficient to solve. In a scenario where you don’t have an emergency funds and you are into Bitcoin investment probably you accumulate Bitcoin via DCA method of over 8-10 years, mind you, you’ve used your discretionary funds for investment, when emergency crisis arise  and you don’t have who to run to, you’ll definitely look at your last line of hope which is your investment.

Let’s assume you acquired a loan to solve the present crisis and you are expected to pay that loan in few months time, you won’t be able stick to your DCA routine, because you’re trying to pay up your outstanding loan. In a worst scenario where you can’t get a loan, your investment portfolio is you only hope left. Assuming you’ve got emergency funds available you won’t go through all these stress. So I’ll recommend you debunk the thought that you can have a steady running Bitcoin portfolio without an emergency funds.

[reagansimms]

~~~

I totally disagree with you on this. We all know that discretionary are funds that we might not use immediately since we have settled our present needs and bills, we can as well use our discretionary funds for our bitcoin investment, but that’s not the case with emergency funds, we keep emergency funds for unexpected personal crisis which sometimes discretionary funds will not be sufficient to solve. In a scenario where you don’t have an emergency funds and you are into Bitcoin investment probably you accumulate Bitcoin via DCA method of over 8-10 years, mind you, you’ve used your discretionary funds for investment, when emergency crisis arise  and you don’t have who to run to, you’ll definitely look at your last line of hope which is your investment.

Let’s assume you acquired a loan to solve the present crisis and you are expected to pay that loan in few months time, you won’t be able stick to your DCA routine, because you’re trying to pay up your outstanding loan. In a worst scenario where you can’t get a loan, your investment portfolio is you only hope left. Assuming you’ve got emergency funds available you won’t go through all these stress. So I’ll recommend you debunk the thought that you can have a steady running Bitcoin portfolio without an emergency funds.

This is where investors must separate emergency funds and discretionary income so they can invest more calmly and focus on the long term. Investors who invest with discretionary funds will feel more comfortable and less likely to panic if Bitcoin prices drop because they are not dependent on that money for their daily needs. Emergency funds also play an important role, but their function is for living expenses (when suddenly needed), not for investment.

It will be very difficult to focus on DCA and keep investments going in the long term if you have loans that must be paid in a few months, in situations like this, investment will be the only hope when facing financial pressures like this. An emergency fund is like a safety net that can make investors feel more stable, less panicked in the face of a crisis, and can always focus on maintaining their investments because they are no longer worried about the source of funds for daily needs. Having a stable Bitcoin portfolio without the support of an emergency fund will significantly impact the long-term sustainability of your investment.

[SilverCryptoBullet]

It will be very difficult to focus on DCA and keep investments going in the long term if you have loans that must be paid in a few months, in situations like this, investment will be the only hope when facing financial pressures like this. An emergency fund is like a safety net that can make investors feel more stable, less panicked in the face of a crisis, and can always focus on maintaining their investments because they are no longer worried about the source of funds for daily needs. Having a stable Bitcoin portfolio without the support of an emergency fund will significantly impact the long-term sustainability of your investment.

People who don't have good finance, don't have good income and especially discretionary income, but make their loan for DCA Bitcoin already did bad practice. Without good finance, and with a loan and loan expiration as well as loan repayment waiting ahead, any bought bitcoin will become kind of liability, not asset. As liability, it has uncontrolled risk of loan expiration and repayment call while unfortunately and dangerously such calls might come when your Bitcoin portfolio has negative ROI.

Investment is only good if it is with own money, no loan and no financial pressure. DCA is only a strategy that can not resolve your personal financial status and can not make your investment safer if you took high risk with loan since your beginning.

[Brizi5000]

~~~

I totally disagree with you on this. We all know that discretionary are funds that we might not use immediately since we have settled our present needs and bills, we can as well use our discretionary funds for our bitcoin investment, but that’s not the case with emergency funds, we keep emergency funds for unexpected personal crisis which sometimes discretionary funds will not be sufficient to solve. In a scenario where you don’t have an emergency funds and you are into Bitcoin investment probably you accumulate Bitcoin via DCA method of over 8-10 years, mind you, you’ve used your discretionary funds for investment, when emergency crisis arise  and you don’t have who to run to, you’ll definitely look at your last line of hope which is your investment.

Let’s assume you acquired a loan to solve the present crisis and you are expected to pay that loan in few months time, you won’t be able stick to your DCA routine, because you’re trying to pay up your outstanding loan. In a worst scenario where you can’t get a loan, your investment portfolio is you only hope left. Assuming you’ve got emergency funds available you won’t go through all these stress. So I’ll recommend you debunk the thought that you can have a steady running Bitcoin portfolio without an emergency funds.

This is where investors must separate emergency funds and discretionary income so they can invest more calmly and focus on the long term. Investors who invest with discretionary funds will feel more comfortable and less likely to panic if Bitcoin prices drop because they are not dependent on that money for their daily needs. Emergency funds also play an important role, but their function is for living expenses (when suddenly needed), not for investment.

It will be very difficult to focus on DCA and keep investments going in the long term if you have loans that must be paid in a few months, in situations like this, investment will be the only hope when facing financial pressures like this. An emergency fund is like a safety net that can make investors feel more stable, less panicked in the face of a crisis, and can always focus on maintaining their investments because they are no longer worried about the source of funds for daily needs. Having a stable Bitcoin portfolio without the support of an emergency fund will significantly impact the long-term sustainability of your investment.

your explanation is well understood as you have differentiated ways or reasons why its good to invest with a discretionary income and also why is good and necessary for we to have an emergency funds. the discretionary income and emergency funds doesn't serve the same purpose in our bitcoin investment, each of them is very important and have its separate needs. from here, investing with a discretionary income will primarily help the investor not to panic or be too emotional when the market is bad or not going our way because that money we put in the  investment is the one we wont be needing anytime soon. while the need for emergency funds will be like the one that will prevent us not to temper or tend towards selling our bitcoin investment whenever we are faced with some real life emergency situations needing some cash to sort them out. and i will also add that when taking loan to invest in bitcoin we should not depend on our investment to repay the loan because its very volatile and apart from it being volatile it might make you to sell off too quickly when is not yet time and before you could realize it you will turn to bitcoin trader and not investor.

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin investment is never for those with unstable income.  Bitcoin investment requires stable income and this is where you can also have discretionary income,  without stable income it is impossible to have or even if you do since the income is not stable and after you might have finished spending your discretionary fund and waiting for the next income, the next place to get money to survive can be your Bitcoin investment,  and all what you have struggled to accumulate can end up being nothing.

You make a lot of assumptions if you are proclaiming that stable income is needed prior to getting started investing into bitcoin.   You do not need stable income to get started investing in bitcoin. All you need is discretionary funds.
There is a difference between getting started and maintaining your bitcoin investment.

Investing it 4-10 years or longer, and if your plan is to get in and out of bitcoin in less than 4 years, then you are likely trading rather than investing.
Accordingly, if you want to continue to invest for 4-10 years or longer, then you have to have ways to pay for your living expenses so that you can hold whatever bitcoin that you bought, so in some sense you are correct about a need to continue to earn money to pay for expenses, otherwise bitcoin would need to be used to pay expenses.

Your post fails to account for the difference between getting started investing in bitcoin versus maintaining investing into bitcoin.  You seem to be presuming them to be the same, as if you have to have your whole expenses for the next 4-10 years figured out before you can start buying bitcoin. 

Actually in order to start investing in bitcoin all you need is $10.  Perhaps you were going to buy a pack of cigarettes with your $10. It is not like you needed the cigarettes, so if you reallocate that $10 into bitcoin, then perhaps you have a better chance with that in 4-10 years or longer than you would have had to have smoked the $10.

Do you think that you need a stable income for the next 4-10 years or longer in order to buy a $10 pack of cigarettes?  Why would there be a difference with money put into bitcoin as compared to discretionary consumption goods?  There are other examples of ways that people spend their money without having assurance in regards to the stability of their income in the coming 4-10 years, and if they plan to continue to live for the next 4-10 years, they are likely anticipating that they are going to earn an income in the next 4-10 years and beyond, and they don't have their income all guaranteed prior to their spending money on consumption goods, especially the discretionary consumption goods.

In other words, having a stable income is important but not necessarily compulsory to be able to start investing in Bitcoin. Someone who's ready to invest can choose to buy with what they spare for Bitcoin through their discretionary but maintaining it is the problem cause to buy consistently an investor would need steady supply of cash to their discretionary for purchasing it.

Part of the reason that DCA works so well it because people can allocate as much as they are able to allocate into bitcoin as the money comes in.

Sure, if a person has been working in the same position for several years and receiving an income for several years, then it is more likely that the income will continue and it is more likely that they have saved up a cash cushion in the event that their income were to dry up suddenly.

If a person does not have a steady income and does not have a cash cushion, those things can be worked on while investing in bitcoin, and surely investing into bitcoin could provide an incentive to try to find a better paying job and/or a more certain and steady job.

That's why I agree with his statement to an extent, anyways those who come into Bitcoin investment with the mindset of investing for just few years other than a complete circle shouldn't regard themselves as investors, most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Yes.  A lot of things can happen to a person in terms of their income, their expenses and/or their health over 4 years time.  Some folks have been building their knowledge, their skills and their social connections so that they can earn good income into the future, and other folks do not make good preparations and/or maybe they are in a location in which it is quite difficult to find work that pays greater than a subsistence wage.

We cannot solve all of the world's problems, yet each person has to figure out their abilities to invest and to create circumstances for themselves so that they are not going to end up selling some or all of their bitcoin at a time that is not of their own choosing. 

If people are poor and they have poor income circumstances, then they might not be able to continue to invest in bitcoin without improving their income, expenses, job skills and/or health.

Part of my point related to there being a difference between getting started and putting conditions in place in order to be able to continue to invest in bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer.

If people come to bitcoin and they fuck it up because they sell too much too soon or they treat bitcoin like a trade rather than an investment, then that is on them and they might have had missed the greatest opportunity that was in front of them, so individuals have to take action to learn about bitcoin, learn about themselves and put systems and practices in place to be able to be benefit from their knowing about bitcoin.

[PhilosopherKing]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

To buy bitcoin alone does not make you an investor,. Traders also buys Bitcoin just as the investors does. ,Vollatility in Bitcoin makes it possible for us to differentiate these traders from investors. those who buys Bitcoin and begins to get afraid by the price fluctuation and eventually sells because of it, is a straight up trader not an investor. Investors thinks in years and cycle and not days. But traders will always want to make quick profits by all means necessary.

[Barikui1]

To buy bitcoin alone does not make you an investor,. Traders also buys Bitcoin just as the investors does. ,Vollatility in Bitcoin makes it possible for us to differentiate these traders from investors. those who buys Bitcoin and begins to get afraid by the price fluctuation and eventually sells because of it, is a straight up trader not an investor. Investors thinks in years and cycle and not days. But traders will always want to make quick profits by all means necessary.

What differentiate a trader from an investor is the way they approach Bitcoin, they both have profit in mind but a trader wishes for quick profit, while an investor knows that he will have to go long term for him to reap the full dividend of his Bitcoin investment.
I don't think that volatility is what differentiate a trader from an investor because it's just one of the characteristics of Bitcoin, in my own opinion, their approach towards Bitcoin and their mindset is what differentiate them since a trader will always crave for quick profit, and he will do everything possible just to make quick money because he feels like he can outsmart the market, unlike an investor that has only the mindset of accumulating a huge unit of Bitcoin and hold strong believing that it's the most reliable way to make a fortune from his investment, so the difference is more of in their approach and mindset, than just volatility.

[Kaliandra]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years. What I don't quite understand is, if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

[Kelward]

To buy bitcoin alone does not make you an investor,. Traders also buys Bitcoin just as the investors does. ,Vollatility in Bitcoin makes it possible for us to differentiate these traders from investors. those who buys Bitcoin and begins to get afraid by the price fluctuation and eventually sells because of it, is a straight up trader not an investor. Investors thinks in years and cycle and not days. But traders will always want to make quick profits by all means necessary.

What differentiate a trader from an investor is the way they approach Bitcoin, they both have profit in mind but a trader wishes for quick profit, while an investor knows that he will have to go long term for him to reap the full dividend of his Bitcoin investment.
I don't think that volatility is what differentiate a trader from an investor because it's just one of the characteristics of Bitcoin, in my own opinion, their approach towards Bitcoin and their mindset is what differentiate them since a trader will always crave for quick profit, and he will do everything possible just to make quick money because he feels like he can outsmart the market, unlike an investor that has only the mindset of accumulating a huge unit of Bitcoin and hold strong believing that it's the most reliable way to make a fortune from his investment, so the difference is more of in their approach and mindset, than just volatility.

I agree with your opinion, Bitcoin is volatile for everyone that holds it but what basically differentiate between a trader and an investor is their mindsets, a trader wants quick profit while an investor wants long term assurance of profit. Because of their different mindsets for holding Bitcoin their approach will be different, a trader cannot imagine hodling Bitcoin for 8 years while an investor don't like the risk of short term profit and lose. Our concern and what we discuss in this thread is long term investment plans and how to achieve it, get a steady income, grow it, always fund your discretionary funds and do your DCA. Bitcoin has built a solid reputation and it has the potentials of reaching ATH, choose Bitcoin investment for peace of mind.

[Tonimez]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years.

Bitcoin trading and bitcoin investment are two distinct and opposing directions taken by different set of bitcoin enthusiasts. Bitcoin trading is synonymous to gambling and bitcoin gamblers also have same mentality as the conventional gamblers who believe they're risk takers. The bitcoin traders target dips to make a buy and the sell whenever they feel they have made a reasonable gain when bitcoin rises. These set of bitcoin enthusiasts see bitcoin as as trade and not an investment.

On the other hand, bitcoin investors have an investors' ideology. They invest in bitcoin with their excesses and they invest solely for future. This is the reason why they invest with only their discretionary income (alias Investment funds). This is the mindset of a good bitcoin investor. They invest with the hope of holding for a long-term say over two cycles or above ten years. These set of people regarded as bitcoin investors are intentional and they make provisions for emergency situations by creating emergency funds and backup funds which will allow them to have a cushion over their bitcoin portfolio.

What I don't quite understand is if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

It is very obvious that investing for 5 years time may not be like bitcoin gambling but it's definitely a short-term plan. Investing for 5 years is still not enough because in 5 years which is still within the range of one bitcoin cycle is not enough and there's still not high chances of making enough gains. Also, a five year accumulation period may not give you a good average cost per bitcoin yet.

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

There you go! Yeah sure, investing for a short term is a trade and there's a high risk of loosing your funds or not making a good profit. Infact, a bitcoin trader would somehow have a cumulative loss at the long run because you could sell at a price far lower than the price you would buy next or you are forced out of bitcoin investment completely.

[Rgram]

Part of the reason that DCA works so well it because people can allocate as much as they are able to allocate into bitcoin as the money comes in.

This is actually one ignored or not given attention to with the DCA strategy. Though it focuses on an averaging, it doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t go huge at a time. It’s mostly based on allocation, what you are comfortable to invest with at a particular time given how much you’ve got and how that amount mattered to you.

You can equally receive a good amount and decide to go 70-80% allocation for Bitcoin and that might be way above average but, that’s what you can allocate for that purpose at the end of the day and still be okay with it.

There would be times you wouldn’t go that much and maybe allocate just 10-20% and that still would be okay. The DCA strategy is just hands open and effective.

[Stormisover]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years. What I don't quite understand is, if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

Investors don't focuse on profits as compared to a trader whose motive is always to maximize profits on a short term, holding Bitcoin for 5 years is quite reasonable to be considered as an investor at least you where to hold for one cycle which is 4 years, 5 years of holding is one cycle and 12 months for me I think you can be called an investor even there is no guarantee of being in profits after this year but there is higher possibilities of having the compounded value of your asset within this period, for an investor hodling can take as long as 4 to 10 years or even more where you will be considering to add more to what you have or not and or want to take some profits from your investment, my logic is to hold for as long as necessary because no one knows the future.

[Son Of Blockchain (SOB)]

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years. What I don't quite understand is, if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

From what you said, it seems you got a clue cause noting that a Bitcoin investor priotise buying and holding Bitcoin in their portfolio for a longer period shows how well you're grounded concerning who an investor is. Well, to some a full circle is the minimum of how long they can hold but holding up to a decade is much more profitable but as long as you can hold for a full circle you can be considered a Bitcoin investor.
 However, anyone that holds lesser than a full circle is considered a trader even though some claim they're investors just cause they bought and held Bitcoin whereas it's for a lesser period. Bitcoin investors don't go into short-term activities to take profits, those are the attributes of a trader, I hope you do understand now.

[MusaPk]

While a 10-year bitcoin investment is ideal, even if one is able to hold their bitcoin for three to four years, they can still get good returns. I personally wouldn't be believing in holding for 10 straight years when I can take advantage of selling in the bull market and buying back in the bear market and i will do that with some portion of my portfolio.

Most people think that they can get rich overnight when they buy bitcoin and they have no tendency to hold. This is why one should have other regular income and emergency fund with us, so that we never feel the urge to sell out bitcoin to meet out urgent needs.

Investment period must be 4 to 10 years, ideally after 10 years you will get enough profit that will make you financially independent. If Bitcoin keep repeating it's cycle after every 4 years, then even 4 years investment plan is good enough.

It will be a big mistake if you are selling your Bitcoin with intention of buying them back later. Because that will restrict you in accumulating the targeted number of bitcoins. Our first goal is to set a target that how many Bitcoins we have to accumulate and it varies from person to person. Those who are entering into Bitcoin right now might set that that have to accumulate 1 or 2 Bitcoin and target can be high if someone has more money. First we have to get to that target and then we can think of selling few based on our strategy.       

[Obulis]

Indeed, Bitcoin investment can be an opportunity for anyone, including those with unstable incomes. But you have to remember that their investment will at some point be disturbed by pressure or the harshness of the life he lives, an investment like this seems like a waste.

Bitcoin investment is never for those with unstable income.  Bitcoin investment requires stable income and this is where you can also have discretionary income,  without stable income it is impossible to have or even if you do since the income is not stable and after you might have finished spending your discretionary fund and waiting for the next income, the next place to get money to survive can be your Bitcoin investment,  and all what you have struggled to accumulate can end up being nothing.

You make a lot of assumptions if you are proclaiming that stable income is needed prior to getting started investing into bitcoin.   You do not need stable income to get started investing in bitcoin. All you need is discretionary funds.

There is a difference between getting started and maintaining your bitcoin investment.

Investing it 4-10 years or longer, and if your plan is to get in and out of bitcoin in less than 4 years, then you are likely trading rather than investing.

Accordingly, if you want to continue to invest for 4-10 years or longer, then you have to have ways to pay for your living expenses so that you can hold whatever bitcoin that you bought, so in some sense you are correct about a need to continue to earn money to pay for expenses, otherwise bitcoin would need to be used to pay expenses.

Your post fails to account for the difference between getting started investing in bitcoin versus maintaining investing into bitcoin.  You seem to be presuming them to be the same, as if you have to have your whole expenses for the next 4-10 years figured out before you can start buying bitcoin. 

Actually in order to start investing in bitcoin all you need is $10.  Perhaps you were going to buy a pack of cigarettes with your $10. It is not like you needed the cigarettes, so if you reallocate that $10 into bitcoin, then perhaps you have a better chance with that in 4-10 years or longer than you would have had to have smoked the $10.

Do you think that you need a stable income for the next 4-10 years or longer in order to buy a $10 pack of cigarettes?  Why would there be a difference with money put into bitcoin as compared to discretionary consumption goods?  There are other examples of ways that people spend their money without having assurance in regards to the stability of their income in the coming 4-10 years, and if they plan to continue to live for the next 4-10 years, they are likely anticipating that they are going to earn an income in the next 4-10 years and beyond, and they don't have their income all guaranteed prior to their spending money on consumption goods, especially the discretionary consumption goods.

So far, Bitcoin long-term of five years plus is the most profitable (that makes ten years very profitable).
The analysis of discretionary consumption good is so profound and don't really need an answer because it's already self explanatory, no matter how a person can tell lies at least they won't lie to themselves. These discretionary consumption goods are usually taken care of without stable income flow. It requires discipline to reallocate such funds into Bitcoin and painstakingly doing that is a profitable venture.

[Cgrexp]

Investment period must be 4 to 10 years, ideally after 10 years you will get enough profit that will make you financially independent. If Bitcoin keep repeating it's cycle after every 4 years, then even 4 years investment plan is good enough.
It will be a big mistake if you are selling your Bitcoin with intention of buying them back later. Because that will restrict you in accumulating the targeted number of bitcoins. Our first goal is to set a target that how many Bitcoins we have to accumulate and it varies from person to person. Those who are entering into Bitcoin right now might set that that have to accumulate 1 or 2 Bitcoin and target can be high if someone has more money. First we have to get to that target and then we can think of selling few based on our strategy.       

No one wants to lose money. So when there is a loss, people get nervous and may feel fear or disgust about the loss. But if someone can convince themselves that they are investing for 10 years or more, they will be less emotionally involved with the performance of their holdings in the short term. Committing for 10 years or more is difficult for many. Even those who say they are investing long-term may feel uncomfortable about locking up money for such a long period of time. However, they need to have the mindset that this investment is indeed longterm.If someone cannot emotionally accept the fact that their money will be locked up for such a long period of time, then they should reduce their weekly investment amount. This will allow them to invest with money that they have less emotional connection to.

[Razmirraz]

While a 10-year bitcoin investment is ideal, even if one is able to hold their bitcoin for three to four years, they can still get good returns. I personally wouldn't be believing in holding for 10 straight years when I can take advantage of selling in the bull market and buying back in the bear market and i will do that with some portion of my portfolio.

Most people think that they can get rich overnight when they buy bitcoin and they have no tendency to hold. This is why one should have other regular income and emergency fund with us, so that we never feel the urge to sell out bitcoin to meet out urgent needs.

Investment period must be 4 to 10 years, ideally after 10 years you will get enough profit that will make you financially independent. If Bitcoin keep repeating it's cycle after every 4 years, then even 4 years investment plan is good enough.

This is the ideal timeframe, although each individual's investment strategy and plan will vary. However, if investors want to see investment growth, especially those investing in assets with significant growth potential like Bitcoin, then a timeframe of 4-10 years is sufficient to clarify everything. The four-year cycle is the best choice for investors who want to see investment growth and make more informed decisions to build their financial future. However, it's important to emphasize that long-term investments must be supported by financial stability and allocate funds not used for other needs to achieve long-term investment goals. This strategy allows investors to avoid financial stress and continue to focus on investment growth.

[Ruttoshi]

Investment period must be 4 to 10 years, ideally after 10 years you will get enough profit that will make you financially independent. If Bitcoin keep repeating it's cycle after every 4 years, then even 4 years investment plan is good enough.

There's no guarantee that investing in bitcoin for ten years will give you enough profit, talkmore of making you financially independent because profit is not guaranteed since the future is full of uncertainty even though, the price of bitcoin moving uptrend is higher than moving downtrend.

If you invest in bitcoin for ten years, it's not enough to make you financially independent because it's the amount that you use to DCA is what will determine the size of your bitcoin portfolio and your profit. Four years isn't a guarantee that you will have accumulated a good size of bitcoin and be in profits only for those who bought aggressively and front loaded their bitcoin stash.

It will be a big mistake if you are selling your Bitcoin with intention of buying them back later. Because that will restrict you in accumulating the targeted number of bitcoins.

Apart from being a trader or acting like a trader to sell and buy back, it will deprive you from benefiting from the compounding value of your bitcoin portfolio.

Our first goal is to set a target that how many Bitcoins we have to accumulate and it varies from person to person. Those who are entering into Bitcoin right now might set that that have to accumulate 1 or 2 Bitcoin and target can be high if someone has more money. First we have to get to that target and then we can think of selling few based on our strategy.       

Personal, after reaching my bitcoin target, and I am still vibrant and capable of buying more, I will reach an over accumulation stage before selling very little using the sustainable withdrawal strategy by JJG.

[JayJuanGee]

most people can't really differentiate an investor from a trader and once they just buy they feel they've invested but no, real investors are patient, determined and ready to hold longer despite different challenges in the market so anyone who can't keep up with those should consider themselves traders and not investors.

Actually, I personally don't know clearly what a trader is and what an investor is. But from what I understand, an investor is someone with long-term goals, such as investing in BTC, and they will hold onto it for a very long time, perhaps more than 10 years. What I don't quite understand is, if we hold onto BTC for only 5 years, can we still call ourselves investors or traders, since 5 years is also a fairly long time? Do you know anything about this?

A great BTC investor will definitely hold onto their BTC for the long term and is certainly someone who is always patient and won't panic-sell when the price of BTC drops or when there's negative news. However, it's clear that someone who holds onto BTC for a short period of time is a trader, not an investor.

If your goal is merely to get into bitcoin and then get out of bitcoin in 5 years, that hardly makes any sense to me.  If you are getting in and then getting out, what are you getting out for?  Are you consuming? or investing into something else?  what is better than bitcoin in terms of investment?  As far as consumption, there is nothing wrong with consumption, yet if you had spent 5 years or more building up your bitcoin, would you just consume it all at once or allow it to continue to grow and perhaps consume it at a pace that might be similar (or perhaps slower) than the pace that you had put value into it?

It seems to me that anyone who plans to invest into bitcoin could think about holding bitcoin for life and starting to sustainably withdraw, yet they have to come to such a determination, and if they were to do that, then they have to get their bitcoin size to a large enough level that their sustainable withdrawal amount is significant to their life, whether the amount of value that they built up is to supplement their income from other sources of income that they might have or maybe they want their income from their bitcoin to completely replace all of their other sources of income so that they don't have to work anymore or to rely upon other income sources?  There is probably no exactly correct solution, even though guys can likely tailor their approach to their own income and expenses situation (their preferred standard of living).

If you are merely planning to get in and out of bitcoin, then that seems more like trading than investment to me, even if your timeline might be longer such as 5 years.  Consider what is your purpose in bitcoin.  Do you consider it a life time investment or something that you are just getting in and out of?

Of course, even if you invest in bitcoin or anything else, you could end up changing your mind about the strength of the investment thesis, and when you first get into bitcoin, you might not even be sure why you were investing in bitcoin and/or you might not know exactly what bitcoin is, yet the longer that you invest into bitcoin , you may well continue to learn about bitcoin, so then with the passage of time, you are learning more and more about bitcoin and you might become more convicted or less convicted about staying in bitcoin and you might adjust your bitcoin position size based on your further study of bitcoin and your learning more about it.

Not everyone is going to want to commit to bitcoin in a longer term sense or a lifetime sense, so hopefully you adjust your position size in accordance with your views about bitcoin as compared with other places that you could put your time, energy and value.

There are plenty of people who got into bitcoin early, maybe even more than 10 years ago, yet as they invested into bitcoin, they decided to sell all of their bitcoin, and now, these days, they are low coiners or no coiners and regretting that they sold too much bitcoin too soon... and maybe they consumed with it or maybe they just got the cash or maybe they invested into something else, and they are not necessarily happy with their having had gotten in and out of bitcoin rather than figuring out ways to keep bitcoin as a lifetime investment that they either keep building or they might start to withdraw from it (in a sustainable way) once they reached an accumulation size that fits a level of income that they would like to have had gotten from their bitcoin.  

I have given plenty of examples in the past in which a person might have specific goals in regards to amounts that he might want to be able to withdraw, such as being able to withdraw his current income rate every year forever into the future, or maybe he wants to be able to withdraw 2x or 3x his current income rate 10-15 years into the future.  There are ways to both create goals to reach sustainable withdrawal status and there are ways to build up your holdings to get yourself to that status and perhaps even if you don't reach the higher preferred withdrawal rates, you are still able to reach some lower level sustainable withdrawal rate that would be considered as sufficiently acceptable as a back up plan.