Which is easier, to quit when winning or to quit when losing?

[LDL]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.

Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue? Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation. I understand that we all gamble with different amounts based on our income, but consider this as an example. You can mention any amount you want based on your personal experience; it doesn't matter.

When to stop gambling depends on how you control your gambling. If one is involved in making money then it becomes really difficult to get rid of gambling. There are many who go to the point where they can't control their greed in order to get profit from gambling and thus they face losses instead of profits from gambling. There is another class of people who go to the point of losing money, where they keep betting repeatedly to recover the money they lost earlier, and eventually become bankrupt, but still cannot stop themselves from gambling. That is, no matter what we say, those who can control themselves from gambling can refrain themselves from gambling under any circumstances and those who cannot control themselves cannot control themselves from gambling under any circumstances.

[traderethereum]

Those are hard choices when you are currently betting games at that very moment you make big wins like consecutive wins, coz you really want to more. But i guess, you can just think more positively that casino can flip the table so you need to stop first. Only if you think that way coz if not that's you being greedy.

While when you are keep lossing is pretty hard, there is two scenario, if you have money you will keep depositing to chase loss, while if you don't have spare you will stop, as pissed, annoyed, broken hearted, mixed emotions. Lol.

Yeah you are right. Quit when winning is difficult as we want to get more winning because at that time, our greediness can increase and we want more money.
We may continue gambling and will say one more time is enough for me but then we lose and make us think that we should play one more time. That will not stop us from really quit gambling as we are lose before and we want to recover our lose.
That will be the same situation if we lose and still difficult to quit gambling. That is why we really need to know when to quit gambling no matter we lose or win.

[uswa56]

You should imagine that you are investing with a multiple interest rate and that opportunity is still expanding, what is waiting is just a decision from you, and you will stop when you stand in front of this golden line or you will launch another arrow into your mind, it is troublesome to give up in this case and applied to gambling, you will expand your greed, instead of immediately shrinking the day's joy. On the other side of the line is when we lose, we don't need to be faced with an expansion opportunity, it's all about recovery thinking and once the nerves don't have strong activation, difficulties easily make people give up

The fact that we want to recover almost by all means is not a good thing to do because I. That way we may get to even loose more at some point but if the purpose remains to win the best we can and move on, we are very likely to even make a good amount of money when we are lucky and still not have to suffer difficulties that will cause you giving up at most point in time.

Gambling I do say should be done for fun and should be enjoyed instead of forcing ways through with a mind of wanting to milk the casinos, they have a long term edge always which you cannot beat literally so it's always best to stay on the safe side with the little advantage you are able to get at any time

It is true that only luck will be able to recover the condition of defeat that we are experiencing when gambling but the reality that is often experienced by most people, when they are experiencing losses and continue to bet that they get only losses that make them lose more, so I think it is not an easy thing to stop when we have suffered some losses and we still have funds that can be used to continue Bet.

You are right, one must of course enjoy every game that they play while betting and if someone thinks they will be able to win every bet they play then it is very unlikely to happen and choosing to profit a little from the bets we play is certainly very good to keep the financial condition that we have, although it is also not easy but we have to practice so as not to spend more money on gambling and will have difficulty in meeting the needs we need.

[laijsica]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.

Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue? Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation. I understand that we all gamble with different amounts based on our income, but consider this as an example. You can mention any amount you want based on your personal experience; it doesn't matter.

When to stop gambling depends on how you control your gambling. If one is involved in making money then it becomes really difficult to get rid of gambling. There are many who go to the point where they can't control their greed in order to get profit from gambling and thus they face losses instead of profits from gambling. There is another class of people who go to the point of losing money, where they keep betting repeatedly to recover the money they lost earlier, and eventually become bankrupt, but still cannot stop themselves from gambling. That is, no matter what we say, those who can control themselves from gambling can refrain themselves from gambling under any circumstances and those who cannot control themselves cannot control themselves from gambling under any circumstances.

Some of the points you have given for regulating gambling are correct. First of all you should abandon the tendency to only earn money while gambling and start taking gambling as a form of entertainment. If you gamble for fun, it can reduce your risk of spending money and prevent wasting time. This method can be much easier to control if you can add it to gambling. Second, you can limit time and money allocations such as a particular money allocation and time allocation per week to reduce the risk of losing extra money. Thirdly you have to rely on luck most of the time to win while gambling and if you lose you should withdraw yourself immediately. Basically gambling control is entirely up to you and you should plan your activities accordingly.

[Jody.Drummer]

Those are hard choices when you are currently betting games at that very moment you make big wins like consecutive wins, coz you really want to more. But i guess, you can just think more positively that casino can flip the table so you need to stop first. Only if you think that way coz if not that's you being greedy.

While when you are keep lossing is pretty hard, there is two scenario, if you have money you will keep depositing to chase loss, while if you don't have spare you will stop, as pissed, annoyed, broken hearted, mixed emotions. Lol.

Yeah you are right. Quit when winning is difficult as we want to get more winning because at that time, our greediness can increase and we want more money.
We may continue gambling and will say one more time is enough for me but then we lose and make us think that we should play one more time. That will not stop us from really quit gambling as we are lose before and we want to recover our lose.
That will be the same situation if we lose and still difficult to quit gambling. That is why we really need to know when to quit gambling no matter we lose or win.

It is inversely proportional when players have awareness of the chances of winning small so they can withdraw themselves to stop easily, it's just that there are rarely gamblers who can be like this because usually the majority of gamblers often lose control when they have won and can even be said to forget themselves because They want a greater victory with capitalization of some money that is fairly small. And no stranger if there are players who are trapped by their own greed that makes them suffer greater losses than before. The thought that was repeated as you said was once again and once again I myself had experienced it and I was sure that everyone who made a bet had experienced it.
Withdrawing to a stop that must be done when we have suffered defeat, because if when winning it indeed we have capital that can be put back again it's just that this is vulnerable to making players addicted to gambling and cannot stop when losing the previous victory. I agree with you, the most correct is that we must know when to stop whether to win or lose, withdrawal to stop is something that must be done by everyone who makes a bet.

[Pi-network314159]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.
Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue?

It depends on individual differences, if the person is not so muchly addicted, he will decide to call it a quit. But if it's a gambling addict he will continue playing till he lost it all. For me I will quit.
 

Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation.

Lolz.. what is the exccence of keeping or holding onto $10 again after losing $490? Its better I use it to gamble. Afterall that amount can't do a reasonable thing again. Who knows if toyling around with $10 can boost your bankroll in dieing minute.

[Bd officer]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.

Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue? Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation. I understand that we all gamble with different amounts based on our income, but consider this as an example. You can mention any amount you want based on your personal experience; it doesn't matter.

It depends on the gamblers how greedy he is, how much he wants to win, if in my case I would quit gambling immediately if it was $100 to $500. Because if I expect more, I will lose more. Those who don't quit gambling even after 5x profit to make extra profit, find that at the end of the day they can't profit anything. From my real experience, I went from $50 to $90 in gambling, I was hoping to complete $100 but I kept losing and at one point it dropped to $40. Since then I am not so greedy, I stop gambling if I can make some profit.

I won't stop playing until I lose below my target. When I start gambling with $50 my target is to lose $5, when I lose $5 I stop gambling. I don't try to recover losses, I gamble again later when my mind is fresh. However, those who try to recover from gambling losses by betting repeatedly lose all their money at the end of the day.

[Hirose UK]

Those are hard choices when you are currently betting games at that very moment you make big wins like consecutive wins, coz you really want to more. But i guess, you can just think more positively that casino can flip the table so you need to stop first. Only if you think that way coz if not that's you being greedy.

While when you are keep lossing is pretty hard, there is two scenario, if you have money you will keep depositing to chase loss, while if you don't have spare you will stop, as pissed, annoyed, broken hearted, mixed emotions. Lol.

Yeah you are right. Quit when winning is difficult as we want to get more winning because at that time, our greediness can increase and we want more money.
We may continue gambling and will say one more time is enough for me but then we lose and make us think that we should play one more time. That will not stop us from really quit gambling as we are lose before and we want to recover our lose.
That will be the same situation if we lose and still difficult to quit gambling. That is why we really need to know when to quit gambling no matter we lose or win.

In the end, the only condition that can make it easier for gamblers to stop is when they have had series of losses due to greed or as result of trying to recover their losses and lose all their money without leaving any until they can't make deposit again and continue their gambling session.
I think almost all gamblers have experienced it and I personally have had this kind of experience in gambling, after all the experiences that have happened gambler can stop their gambling session in any condition, whether they win or lose.
It just takes time because someone can learn from their experience when they can think clearly and can take wise attitude in every decision-making, it just matter of time and how someone mindset is.

[hyudien]

In the end, the only condition that can make it easier for gamblers to stop is when they have had series of losses due to greed or as result of trying to recover their losses and lose all their money without leaving any until they can't make deposit again and continue their gambling session.
I think almost all gamblers have experienced it and I personally have had this kind of experience in gambling, after all the experiences that have happened gambler can stop their gambling session in any condition, whether they win or lose.
It just takes time because someone can learn from their experience when they can think clearly and can take wise attitude in every decision-making, it just matter of time and how someone mindset is.

That is the worst situation a gambler can experience, they are not unwilling to deposit money, but they no longer have money to play. They will feel frustrated because they have lost money and on the other hand they will also be frustrated because they can no longer gamble. Because in my opinion they will continue to gamble as long as they still have money. And when they stop it is temporarily when they do not have money, after having money they will continue it again.
This is a form of addiction that is very difficult to stop, they will continue like that if they do not have the desire to stop. And when they have the desire to stop, they will also find it difficult to do so, one way to cure it is to go to an expert.

[danherbias07]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.
Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue?

It depends on individual differences, if the person is not so muchly addicted, he will decide to call it a quit. But if it's a gambling addict he will continue playing till he lost it all. For me I will quit.
 

Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation.

Lolz.. what is the exccence of keeping or holding onto $10 again after losing $490? Its better I use it to gamble. Afterall that amount can't do a reasonable thing again. Who knows if toyling around with $10 can boost your bankroll in dieing minute.

There are times we should call it a day and that $10 may actually be the difference when we gamble again the next day. I think there are gamblers who experience this kind of thing.
Recently, I did actually experience it. I autoplay slots before I sleep at 1000 rounds with a bankroll of $10 but I am just betting for cents so it would take a lot of time before I get wrecked. When I woke up, all that was left was 1 dollar and a few cents. That next day I gambled it again on the same slot game and Voila! I got it back to $12 and was so happy that something was left for me.

Sometimes our fury makes us do things that ain't right anymore. Maybe one refresh of that slot game could change things and after that happened to me I started to rest whenever I could hoping it would give back something whenever I lost and it's doing great.

[mirakal]

Those are hard choices when you are currently betting games at that very moment you make big wins like consecutive wins, coz you really want to more. But i guess, you can just think more positively that casino can flip the table so you need to stop first. Only if you think that way coz if not that's you being greedy.

While when you are keep lossing is pretty hard, there is two scenario, if you have money you will keep depositing to chase loss, while if you don't have spare you will stop, as pissed, annoyed, broken hearted, mixed emotions. Lol.

Yeah you are right. Quit when winning is difficult as we want to get more winning because at that time, our greediness can increase and we want more money.
We may continue gambling and will say one more time is enough for me but then we lose and make us think that we should play one more time. That will not stop us from really quit gambling as we are lose before and we want to recover our lose.
That will be the same situation if we lose and still difficult to quit gambling. That is why we really need to know when to quit gambling no matter we lose or win.

The sad thing is that instead of leaving the casino because we won, we spend more thinking for more and go home empty. Because this is our mindset, and greed comes next and controls our minds. Quitting is just in our minds, but no action is taken, and that is the problem. We still don't learn; instead, we do it repetitively.

That is why the casino can never lose any amount; they make us win, but we will give it back. We gamble just to have some fun, whether we lose or not; this should be put in our minds. If we spend more, it is not a problem as long as we never blame anyone for this.
We could say that gambling can change your mind and go wrong if not managed. That's why we should be careful in dealing with this. 

[fortunecrypto]

I have a hard time quitting when winning because I'm thinking that's my lucky day and I have to take that opportunity, and I will have a guilt feeling if I do not take that opportunity, so to quench that guilt, I have to continue winning, but I made sure that I kept a portion so in case I suffer losses I have something to keep if.

Losing and winning happened on gambling, so you must have ready action in case you face or you're experiencing a loss or winning so you will not regret it later.

[Gheka]

Those are hard choices when you are currently betting games at that very moment you make big wins like consecutive wins, coz you really want to more. But i guess, you can just think more positively that casino can flip the table so you need to stop first. Only if you think that way coz if not that's you being greedy.

While when you are keep lossing is pretty hard, there is two scenario, if you have money you will keep depositing to chase loss, while if you don't have spare you will stop, as pissed, annoyed, broken hearted, mixed emotions. Lol.

Yeah you are right. Quit when winning is difficult as we want to get more winning because at that time, our greediness can increase and we want more money.
We may continue gambling and will say one more time is enough for me but then we lose and make us think that we should play one more time. That will not stop us from really quit gambling as we are lose before and we want to recover our lose.
That will be the same situation if we lose and still difficult to quit gambling. That is why we really need to know when to quit gambling no matter we lose or win.

As an analytical chart, once the profit is on the exponential trend, there is no reason to stop, on the contrary, invest more to make that number reach a bigger revenue than ever, just read a few books or watch a few movies, the theory about this is also relatively permeable as long as the profit is there and health and time allow, people will continue to work hard on that path despite various dangers. In fact, at this point, they have been blinded by the dream of profit to other views, there is no motivation to wake them up to stop, only a storm of motivation and fearlessness in the face of danger.

[freedomgo]

I have a hard time quitting when winning because I'm thinking that's my lucky day and I have to take that opportunity, and I will have a guilt feeling if I do not take that opportunity, so to quench that guilt, I have to continue winning, but I made sure that I kept a portion so in case I suffer losses I have something to keep if.

Losing and winning happened on gambling, so you must have ready action in case you face or you're experiencing a loss or winning so you will not regret it later.

It sounds like you might be dealing with a bit of a gambling addiction. Am I right?

If you're on a lucky streak, it's normal to want to keep going, but remember, nothing lasts forever. You could end up losing eventually, so it’s important to know when to stop and enjoy your winnings. Like they say, always set a budget for gambling and only risk what you can afford to lose. Also, set a winning target and stop when you reach it to avoid losing everything you’ve won.

[gunhell16]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.

Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue? Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation. I understand that we all gamble with different amounts based on our income, but consider this as an example. You can mention any amount you want based on your personal experience; it doesn't matter.

For a gambling player in a casino op, if the gambling player has self-discipline, surely the bankroll of $100 might only turn $200, then it will stop immediately to take out the $100. So, how much more? If it becomes $500, of course the $400 will be withdrawn immediately.

If the gambler lacks self-control and discipline, he will likely think he can win more because he is holding or luck is on his side, making it hard for him to quit at once.
And this is most of the time happened to majority players in the crypto casino gambling platform.

[lixer]

It's good you where able to set a target and stick to it, not everyone has such trait, it takes discipline to do such because when someone who's benefiting from a particular thing no matter how risky it is, if they don't have self control, they could get carried away by the benefits they're getting from it and gradually become addicts, however the major thing that makes it difficult for people to quit even while they're having much losing streaks is lose chasing, but if someone is not very wealthy enough to afford such habit they could gradually quit. Well in conclusion, it takes discipline for people that fall under such categories whether people with much or less winking streaks to avoid gambling addiction and that's just it.

It might be a plan of qiut at a tatget point or winning after a target amount. But the target must be break after reached the target and it will be higher than the initial target and once again will break when it reach and it will be higher again and that will be reach but will be brocken once again and it will continue like this way.

That's what happens when you have a winning target as a gambler because when you hit that target, the greed factor gets activated in your brain, and it persuades you to push the target ahead, and then you convince yourself to gamble more to achieve a higher target that your brain has told you to achieve since you have already reached your previously decided target.

This is the reason why it's easier to stop gambling after hitting a losing target because no one would like to lose more but everyone would like to win more. So, even though I would always recommend gamblers to stop when they have won something on top of their deposit, I feel many would do that, but when it comes to losses, it's important to stop when you have lost a certain percentage of your bankroll to avoid excessive losses.

[EarnOnVictor]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.

Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue? Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation. I understand that we all gamble with different amounts based on our income, but consider this as an example. You can mention any amount you want based on your personal experience; it doesn't matter.

When to stop gambling depends on how you control your gambling. If one is involved in making money then it becomes really difficult to get rid of gambling. There are many who go to the point where they can't control their greed in order to get profit from gambling and thus they face losses instead of profits from gambling. There is another class of people who go to the point of losing money, where they keep betting repeatedly to recover the money they lost earlier, and eventually become bankrupt, but still cannot stop themselves from gambling. That is, no matter what we say, those who can control themselves from gambling can refrain themselves from gambling under any circumstances and those who cannot control themselves cannot control themselves from gambling under any circumstances.

Some of the points you have given for regulating gambling are correct. First of all you should abandon the tendency to only earn money while gambling and start taking gambling as a form of entertainment. If you gamble for fun, it can reduce your risk of spending money and prevent wasting time. This method can be much easier to control if you can add it to gambling. Second, you can limit time and money allocations such as a particular money allocation and time allocation per week to reduce the risk of losing extra money.

Gambling is not as many take it, they always seek the money which causes the issues they face, and fine, if one can gamble for entertainment, it will be okay, but I wonder how the industry would be if people were sincerely gambling for the fun and not for the money, it would be more boring instead of the fun and will garner little success. The belief of making more money drives people to gamble if we would not deceive ourselves and I know it will remain like that. But we should tell ourselves the truth even if we gamble for the money or fun, let's just be reasonable with both. The right calculations and plans are important in having the correct budget and management both financially and time-wise. Controlling ourselves by being disciplined would also go a long way.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.

Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue? Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation. I understand that we all gamble with different amounts based on our income, but consider this as an example. You can mention any amount you want based on your personal experience; it doesn't matter.

When to stop gambling depends on how you control your gambling. If one is involved in making money then it becomes really difficult to get rid of gambling. There are many who go to the point where they can't control their greed in order to get profit from gambling and thus they face losses instead of profits from gambling. There is another class of people who go to the point of losing money, where they keep betting repeatedly to recover the money they lost earlier, and eventually become bankrupt, but still cannot stop themselves from gambling. That is, no matter what we say, those who can control themselves from gambling can refrain themselves from gambling under any circumstances and those who cannot control themselves cannot control themselves from gambling under any circumstances.

In gambling, we already know that everyday usually comes with its streak of good or bad luck, it's possible you can start gambling now and you will be making some profit but the next minute, you may start to experience lose, it could also be that when you try to gamble the next day, you will experience more lose than the previous day, so I just suggest that a gambler is the one that really decides when they will quit  and when not to. If you have experience a good streak of profit, you can take a brake and if you have also had a good streak of losses, then it's best to take brake.

[oll]

I know that as gamblers, everyone can relate to this question, as we have surely experienced it in real situations.

Suppose our bankroll is $100 and it has already grown to $500, would you quit or continue? Conversely, if with our bankroll, we are down to $10, would you still continue or save the remaining $10? I used specific amounts to make it easier to discuss this situation. I understand that we all gamble with different amounts based on our income, but consider this as an example. You can mention any amount you want based on your personal experience; it doesn't matter.

When to stop gambling depends on how you control your gambling. If one is involved in making money then it becomes really difficult to get rid of gambling. There are many who go to the point where they can't control their greed in order to get profit from gambling and thus they face losses instead of profits from gambling. There is another class of people who go to the point of losing money, where they keep betting repeatedly to recover the money they lost earlier, and eventually become bankrupt, but still cannot stop themselves from gambling. That is, no matter what we say, those who can control themselves from gambling can refrain themselves from gambling under any circumstances and those who cannot control themselves cannot control themselves from gambling under any circumstances.

Some of the points you have given for regulating gambling are correct. First of all you should abandon the tendency to only earn money while gambling and start taking gambling as a form of entertainment. If you gamble for fun, it can reduce your risk of spending money and prevent wasting time. This method can be much easier to control if you can add it to gambling. Second, you can limit time and money allocations such as a particular money allocation and time allocation per week to reduce the risk of losing extra money.

Gambling is not as many take it, they always seek the money which causes the issues they face, and fine, if one can gamble for entertainment, it will be okay, but I wonder how the industry would be if people were sincerely gambling for the fun and not for the money, it would be more boring instead of the fun and will garner little success. The belief of making more money drives people to gamble if we would not deceive ourselves and I know it will remain like that. But we should tell ourselves the truth even if we gamble for the money or fun, let's just be reasonable with both. The right calculations and plans are important in having the correct budget and management both financially and time-wise. Controlling ourselves by being disciplined would also go a long way.

Of course, this is what millions of people go to gambling for, because players want to change their lives for the better, so that music plays, everything is bright and this player is admired by others. But the paradox is that there are players who do not know that they do not need this, because they go only to play and feel this atmosphere, they think that they will win a lot of money, but in fact it will not change their life and they will not be happy. I would recommend many to think about this, maybe such players should not play at all, because money will not make them happier. For example, there are many players who won a lot of money, but spent it on various nonsense and returned to their usual life, which became worse than it was before the game ...

[aoluain]

It's good you where able to set a target and stick to it, not everyone has such trait, it takes discipline to do such because when someone who's benefiting from a particular thing no matter how risky it is, if they don't have self control, they could get carried away by the benefits they're getting from it and gradually become addicts, however the major thing that makes it difficult for people to quit even while they're having much losing streaks is lose chasing, but if someone is not very wealthy enough to afford such habit they could gradually quit. Well in conclusion, it takes discipline for people that fall under such categories whether people with much or less winking streaks to avoid gambling addiction and that's just it.

It might be a plan of qiut at a tatget point or winning after a target amount. But the target must be break after reached the target and it will be higher than the initial target and once again will break when it reach and it will be higher again and that will be reach but will be brocken once again and it will continue like this way.

That's what happens when you have a winning target as a gambler because when you hit that target, the greed factor gets activated in your brain, and it persuades you to push the target ahead, and then you convince yourself to gamble more to achieve a higher target that your brain has told you to achieve since you have already reached your previously decided target.

This is the reason why it's easier to stop gambling after hitting a losing target because no one would like to lose more but everyone would like to win more. So, even though I would always recommend gamblers to stop when they have won something on top of their deposit, I feel many would do that, but when it comes to losses, it's important to stop when you have lost a certain percentage of your bankroll to avoid excessive losses.

Yea I can see that happening, pushing the quitting target higher when you are
on a winning streak, I'm probably guilty of that in the past.

The same is also possible when chasing losses, the hole your digging is getting
bigger and bigger and you keep pushing the target further and further away
to get on that winning streak again.

In the end for a lot of gamblers its very difficult to quit for either scenarios!