I Think I Got Screwed out of 5 BTC

[the joint]

First, allow me to direct you attention to this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53888.0

According to the OP in this thread, a bet was set where OldEngineer would pay 5BTC to the person who correctly guessed the date that BTC would cross the $4 threshold.  In the event of a tie, the prize would go to the first guesser.

On Dec. 6th US central time, I guessed that the price would cross $4 on Dec. 19th.  This is exactly what happened.  It crossed $4 sometime around 10pm US central time on Dec. 19.

But, apparently, OldEngineer claims that Goat won.  Goat guessed Dec. 20th and was also correct since he was guessing according to Thai Time.  OldEngineer claims Goat won because a post on Dec. 7th made the clarification that GMT would be the deciding time.

But, this post, which clarified that GMT would be the deciding time, was made AFTER I cast my guess.  Why the hell should I, a person who uses US central time, make a guess based upon GMT?

OldEngineer, please send me BTC as, per the rules of your OP, I am clearly the winner.  It is not fair to go by some rule that was just "created" in the middle of the game when my guess was not cast according to those rules.

Edit:  I really would not like to make this a big deal if I don't have to.  Please fulfill your end of the agreement and there will be no problems.

[kokjo]

i don't care. ITS ONLY FUCKING 5 BTC!

[the joint]

i don't care. ITS ONLY FUCKING 5 BTC!

Somehow I have a feeling you're not in college.

Whether its failure to pay in a bet or failure to pay in a market transaction, scamming and dishonesty are not welcome on this forum.

I don't suppose you would care to, out of the goodness of your heart, give me 5 of your own BTC then, since its "only fucking 5 BTC."

[ineededausername]

First, allow me to direct you attention to this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53888.0

According to the OP in this thread, a bet was set where OldEngineer would pay 5BTC to the person who correctly guessed the date that BTC would cross the $4 threshold.  In the event of a tie, the prize would go to the first guesser.

On Dec. 6th US central time, I guessed that the price would cross $4 on Dec. 19th.  This is exactly what happened.  It crossed $4 sometime around 10pm US central time on Dec. 19.

But, apparently, OldEngineer claims that Goat won.  Goat guessed Dec. 20th and was also correct since he was guessing according to Thai Time.  OldEngineer claims Goat won because a post on Dec. 7th made the clarification that GMT would be the deciding time.

But, this post, which clarified that GMT would be the deciding time, was made AFTER I cast my guess.  Why the hell should I, a person who uses US central time, make a guess based upon GMT?

OldEngineer, please send me BTC as, per the rules of your OP, I am clearly the winner.  It is not fair to go by some rule that was just "created" in the middle of the game when my guess was not cast according to those rules.

Edit:  I really would not like to make this a big deal if I don't have to.  Please fulfill your end of the agreement and there will be no problems.

+1... I'm siding with you on this

[old_engineer]

You can't seriously be claiming skill in predicting, to the hour, the time at which the $4 threshold was broken?  I suppose you should have adjusted your guess after clarification of the rules, then. I think we're all just f'in monkeys throwing poo at a dartboard.

[the joint]

You can't seriously be claiming skill in predicting, to the hour, the time at which the $4 threshold was broken?  I suppose you should have adjusted your guess after clarification of the rules, then. I think we're all just f'in monkeys throwing poo at a dartboard.

Dude, I didn't even check the thread again until yesterday.

You can't seriously be claiming that your bogus "rule," which was enforced without making sure that every guesser knew about it, didn't change anything at all.  Clearly it DID change things and, as the hoster of the bet, you should have made sure that every guesser was informed of this rule change.

It's funny.  People like to bitch and complain when people running complex operations like exchanges or other BTC services fail to notify their customers UP FRONT about all the rules and stipulations that they can expect.  Well, I'm bitching and complaining because what you did is no different, making some random change, not telling anybody, assuming that all guessers would find this out for themselves.  How do you know that this new information wouldn't make me change my guess?

[kokjo]

You can't seriously be claiming skill in predicting, to the hour, the time at which the $4 threshold was broken?  I suppose you should have adjusted your guess after clarification of the rules, then. I think we're all just f'in monkeys throwing poo at a dartboard.

he have not claimed that he had skills, only that he was closer then Goat. he is only lucky

[cypherdoc]

First, allow me to direct you attention to this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53888.0

According to the OP in this thread, a bet was set where OldEngineer would pay 5BTC to the person who correctly guessed the date that BTC would cross the $4 threshold.  In the event of a tie, the prize would go to the first guesser.

On Dec. 6th US central time, I guessed that the price would cross $4 on Dec. 19th.  This is exactly what happened.  It crossed $4 sometime around 10pm US central time on Dec. 19.

But, apparently, OldEngineer claims that Goat won.  Goat guessed Dec. 20th and was also correct since he was guessing according to Thai Time.  OldEngineer claims Goat won because a post on Dec. 7th made the clarification that GMT would be the deciding time.

But, this post, which clarified that GMT would be the deciding time, was made AFTER I cast my guess.  Why the hell should I, a person who uses US central time, make a guess based upon GMT?

OldEngineer, please send me BTC as, per the rules of your OP, I am clearly the winner.  It is not fair to go by some rule that was just "created" in the middle of the game when my guess was not cast according to those rules.

Edit:  I really would not like to make this a big deal if I don't have to.  Please fulfill your end of the agreement and there will be no problems.

IIRC, weren't you the guy also siding with the thief who accidentally got sent Bitcoin by mistake by Phantomcircuit who works for Intersango?

[the joint]

You can't seriously be claiming skill in predicting, to the hour, the time at which the $4 threshold was broken?  I suppose you should have adjusted your guess after clarification of the rules, then. I think we're all just f'in monkeys throwing poo at a dartboard.

he have not claimed that he had skills, only that he was closer then Goat. he is only lucky

There is absolutely no doubt that I both:  1)  Cast my vote before Goat and 2) Cast my vote before the new "rule" was implemented.

[the joint]

First, allow me to direct you attention to this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53888.0

According to the OP in this thread, a bet was set where OldEngineer would pay 5BTC to the person who correctly guessed the date that BTC would cross the $4 threshold.  In the event of a tie, the prize would go to the first guesser.

On Dec. 6th US central time, I guessed that the price would cross $4 on Dec. 19th.  This is exactly what happened.  It crossed $4 sometime around 10pm US central time on Dec. 19.

But, apparently, OldEngineer claims that Goat won.  Goat guessed Dec. 20th and was also correct since he was guessing according to Thai Time.  OldEngineer claims Goat won because a post on Dec. 7th made the clarification that GMT would be the deciding time.

But, this post, which clarified that GMT would be the deciding time, was made AFTER I cast my guess.  Why the hell should I, a person who uses US central time, make a guess based upon GMT?

OldEngineer, please send me BTC as, per the rules of your OP, I am clearly the winner.  It is not fair to go by some rule that was just "created" in the middle of the game when my guess was not cast according to those rules.

Edit:  I really would not like to make this a big deal if I don't have to.  Please fulfill your end of the agreement and there will be no problems.

IIRC, weren't you the guy also siding with the thief who accidentally got sent Bitcoin by mistake by Phantomcircuit who works for Intersango?

I don't even know what IIRC is.

Edit:  I do remember what you're talking about, I think.  I recall some matter where some exchange mistakenly sent some guy a bunch of BTC who didn't want to return it.  I think I remember questioning the legality of the exchange's complaint when they were talking about coming after the guy legally.

[ineededausername]

First, allow me to direct you attention to this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53888.0

According to the OP in this thread, a bet was set where OldEngineer would pay 5BTC to the person who correctly guessed the date that BTC would cross the $4 threshold.  In the event of a tie, the prize would go to the first guesser.

On Dec. 6th US central time, I guessed that the price would cross $4 on Dec. 19th.  This is exactly what happened.  It crossed $4 sometime around 10pm US central time on Dec. 19.

But, apparently, OldEngineer claims that Goat won.  Goat guessed Dec. 20th and was also correct since he was guessing according to Thai Time.  OldEngineer claims Goat won because a post on Dec. 7th made the clarification that GMT would be the deciding time.

But, this post, which clarified that GMT would be the deciding time, was made AFTER I cast my guess.  Why the hell should I, a person who uses US central time, make a guess based upon GMT?

OldEngineer, please send me BTC as, per the rules of your OP, I am clearly the winner.  It is not fair to go by some rule that was just "created" in the middle of the game when my guess was not cast according to those rules.

Edit:  I really would not like to make this a big deal if I don't have to.  Please fulfill your end of the agreement and there will be no problems.

IIRC, weren't you the guy also siding with the thief who accidentally got sent Bitcoin by mistake by Phantomcircuit who works for Intersango?

If he was, I'm going to disagree with him on that, but that doesn't affect the issue of old_engineer not paying up.

[trogdorjw73]

Nothing like a poor loser starting a new thread. Old_engineer, started the contest, someone said "what time zone" rather early on, and he said "GMT". GMT is the standard time zone in many things because it is the standard. You know, the way that Central time is referred commonly listed as "UTC - 06:00" just to explicitly show what time zone it is? And of course UTC is the replacement of GMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time).

Why would anyone use GMT as the standard? Because it is. When you're dealing with a global environment, what else would you use? Anyway, you lost out on 5BTC because you got in early on a free contest, never corrected your vote (basically because you had a lucky guess), and now you're whining about it. Welcome to the Internet. His game, his rules.

[Mushoz]

First, allow me to direct you attention to this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53888.0

According to the OP in this thread, a bet was set where OldEngineer would pay 5BTC to the person who correctly guessed the date that BTC would cross the $4 threshold.  In the event of a tie, the prize would go to the first guesser.

On Dec. 6th US central time, I guessed that the price would cross $4 on Dec. 19th.  This is exactly what happened.  It crossed $4 sometime around 10pm US central time on Dec. 19.

But, apparently, OldEngineer claims that Goat won.  Goat guessed Dec. 20th and was also correct since he was guessing according to Thai Time.  OldEngineer claims Goat won because a post on Dec. 7th made the clarification that GMT would be the deciding time.

But, this post, which clarified that GMT would be the deciding time, was made AFTER I cast my guess.  Why the hell should I, a person who uses US central time, make a guess based upon GMT?

OldEngineer, please send me BTC as, per the rules of your OP, I am clearly the winner.  It is not fair to go by some rule that was just "created" in the middle of the game when my guess was not cast according to those rules.

Edit:  I really would not like to make this a big deal if I don't have to.  Please fulfill your end of the agreement and there will be no problems.

IIRC, weren't you the guy also siding with the thief who accidentally got sent Bitcoin by mistake by Phantomcircuit who works for Intersango?

I don't even know what IIRC is.

Edit:  I do remember what you're talking about, I think.  I recall some matter where some exchange mistakenly sent some guy a bunch of BTC who didn't want to return it.  I think I remember questioning the legality of the exchange's complaint when they were talking about coming after the guy legally.

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

[the joint]

Nothing like a poor loser starting a new thread. Old_engineer, started the contest, someone said "what time zone" rather early on, and he said "GMT". GMT is the standard time zone in many things because it is the standard. You know, the way that Central time is referred commonly listed as "UTC - 06:00" just to explicitly show what time zone it is? And of course UTC is the replacement of GMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time).

Why would anyone use GMT as the standard? Because it is. When you're dealing with a global environment, what else would you use? Anyway, you lost out on 5BTC because you got in early on a free contest, never corrected your vote (basically because you had a lucky guess), and now you're whining about it. Welcome to the Internet.

All of that is irrelevant since I cast my guess before GMT was even mentioned.

As a result, I never viewed the thread again until yesterday.  So, I was completely made unaware of this rule.  Hence, the game was played under different rules by different players.

[the joint]

A pm I sent to OldEngineer just now.

Hello,

Please, sir, with all due respect, I have met all the winning criteria of your bet post.  There is absolutely no doubt that not-only did I guess correctly according to the OP, but I also:  1.) Guessed before Goat and 2.)  I guessed before the suggestion/implementation of your new "rule."  Since I was not informed of this rule change, I could not have changed my guess.  The fact that the bet is of a guessing-nature does nothing to change the fact that your "rule" was unfair as it did not apply to everyone equally.  Some were aware of the rule before guessing...I was not.

Because of this, the game is demonstrated to have been played under false pretenses if you continue to maintain the validity of your "rule."  Not everyone playing played by the same rules, and thus your game was slanted.

I understand it is "only 5 BTC" but I would encourage you to follow through on being decent and honest in this matter.

Thank you.

-The Joint

[trogdorjw73]

Nothing like a poor loser starting a new thread. Old_engineer, started the contest, someone said "what time zone" rather early on, and he said "GMT". GMT is the standard time zone in many things because it is the standard. You know, the way that Central time is referred commonly listed as "UTC - 06:00" just to explicitly show what time zone it is? And of course UTC is the replacement of GMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time).

Why would anyone use GMT as the standard? Because it is. When you're dealing with a global environment, what else would you use? Anyway, you lost out on 5BTC because you got in early on a free contest, never corrected your vote (basically because you had a lucky guess), and now you're whining about it. Welcome to the Internet.

All of that is irrelevant since I cast my guess before GMT was even mentioned.

As a result, I never viewed the thread again until yesterday.  So, I was completely made unaware of this rule.  Hence, the game was played under different rules by different players.

When you make a game, you can decide on the rules. If someone makes a game with unclear rules and then "changes" them with a clarifying comment, it's up to the players to conform to the rule changes.

[Serge]

how's OldEngineer was supposed to notify everyone?

[the joint]

how's OldEngineer was supposed to notify everyone?

That's not my problem, I was the player.

[cypherdoc]

First, allow me to direct you attention to this thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53888.0

According to the OP in this thread, a bet was set where OldEngineer would pay 5BTC to the person who correctly guessed the date that BTC would cross the $4 threshold.  In the event of a tie, the prize would go to the first guesser.

On Dec. 6th US central time, I guessed that the price would cross $4 on Dec. 19th.  This is exactly what happened.  It crossed $4 sometime around 10pm US central time on Dec. 19.

But, apparently, OldEngineer claims that Goat won.  Goat guessed Dec. 20th and was also correct since he was guessing according to Thai Time.  OldEngineer claims Goat won because a post on Dec. 7th made the clarification that GMT would be the deciding time.

But, this post, which clarified that GMT would be the deciding time, was made AFTER I cast my guess.  Why the hell should I, a person who uses US central time, make a guess based upon GMT?

OldEngineer, please send me BTC as, per the rules of your OP, I am clearly the winner.  It is not fair to go by some rule that was just "created" in the middle of the game when my guess was not cast according to those rules.

Edit:  I really would not like to make this a big deal if I don't have to.  Please fulfill your end of the agreement and there will be no problems.

IIRC, weren't you the guy also siding with the thief who accidentally got sent Bitcoin by mistake by Phantomcircuit who works for Intersango?

I don't even know what IIRC is.

Edit:  I do remember what you're talking about, I think.  I recall some matter where some exchange mistakenly sent some guy a bunch of BTC who didn't want to return it.  I think I remember questioning the legality of the exchange's complaint when they were talking about coming after the guy legally.

i certainly don't want to open up that big wound again, but that was a nasty black eye on Bitcoin at the time.  i think it was during the summer.  Patrick of Intersango wrote some new code which accidentally sent a large amt of btc to some random guy who decided to keep the btc.  it was a clear mistake.  his identity was even revealed.

personally, i think he was wrong to do this but i was surprised over how many ppl sided with him.  basically most of the Old Guard folks like me sided with Patrick and tried to politely convince him to return the btc whereas the others thought he should be able to keep it.

all sorts of nasty legal threats were made even by the lawyers of this Forum.  i don't know the final outcome.

[the joint]

Nothing like a poor loser starting a new thread. Old_engineer, started the contest, someone said "what time zone" rather early on, and he said "GMT". GMT is the standard time zone in many things because it is the standard. You know, the way that Central time is referred commonly listed as "UTC - 06:00" just to explicitly show what time zone it is? And of course UTC is the replacement of GMT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time).

Why would anyone use GMT as the standard? Because it is. When you're dealing with a global environment, what else would you use? Anyway, you lost out on 5BTC because you got in early on a free contest, never corrected your vote (basically because you had a lucky guess), and now you're whining about it. Welcome to the Internet.

All of that is irrelevant since I cast my guess before GMT was even mentioned.

As a result, I never viewed the thread again until yesterday.  So, I was completely made unaware of this rule.  Hence, the game was played under different rules by different players.

When you make a game, you can decide on the rules. If someone makes a game with unclear rules and then "changes" them with a clarifying comment, it's up to the players to conform to the rule changes.

Dude, do you know what deception is?