I Think I Got Screwed out of 5 BTC

[julz]

From hijacking the Thai baht symbol, to talk of 'the government' (as if there is only one) to ill-specified date/times...  the lack of global thinking around here needs to change.

That aside.. you didn't pay to participate.

Mods.. please lock/trash this thread for inflammatory title and general sliminess.

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[the joint]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

Check out my rep in honest traders.

[old_engineer]

Isn't Universal Time the default when you are talking to audience from many different timezones?

With a world audience, yes, as is the case with this forum community.  If one wants to specify a time zone - like, say, CST - there's nothing stopping you.  I was even going to honor BTC_bear's day prediction of "Monday" because it amused me.

Also, the general method of conflict resolution is PM, _then_ public discussion. the_joint went straight to posting a new thread, and far more than 5 btc worth of time has been wasted on this silly contest result.

I posted this in the original thread, thought I should crosspost here (and is likely my last post on the matter):

This was a free contest, not a mutually-agreed upon contract.  Ambiguity was pointed out in the rules, and they were clarified in the original thread and broadcast to all participants.  Burden of checking thread falls to the participants.  I had no obligation to individually notify guessers of the clarified rules - did you really expect me to PM everyone that had guessed to see if they wanted to change their weeks-from-now guess based on the time zone clarification?  That's stupid.  No, I'm not sending you any btc.

And I sent Goat 10 btc because he mentioned orphans (which I sent before you posted your butthurt thread, FWIW - I wasn't trying to spite you).

[the joint]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

this is exactly the problem he is creating for himself that he can't see.  people like the joint focus only on technicalities and ignore social customs or grace.  and we wonder why our society faces such challenges.

And I'm sure making such a comment that is about me but not addressed to me really shows your own social graces.  And we wonder why...

[Serge]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

Check out my rep in honest traders.

you can be top notch honest guy, but i don't want anything to do with loony fruitcake side of you

[trogdorjw73]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

this is exactly the problem he is creating for himself that he can't see.  people like the joint focus only on technicalities and ignore social customs or grace.  and we wonder why our society faces such challenges.

Let's not forget such things as this: "The smartest student, I think, is the one who finds the most efficient means of passing any examination or test they come across. Yes, even by cheating."

We could say lying is also allowable by such an attitude, which is precisely the sort of thinking that causes the most harm to society. Lie, cheat, steal -- do whatever it takes to get ahead. For someone who posts regularly on the forums to say that he "never saw the rule change" is unlikely at best. I know I wouldn't trust the joint either after this little diatribe.

[the joint]

Isn't Universal Time the default when you are talking to audience from many different timezones?

With a world audience, yes, as is the case with this forum community.  If one wants to specify a time zone - like, say, CST - there's nothing stopping you.  I was even going to honor BTC_bear's day prediction of "Monday" because it amused me.

Also, the general method of conflict resolution is PM, _then_ public discussion. the_joint went straight to posting a new thread, and far more than 5 btc worth of time has been wasted on this silly contest result.

I posted this in the original thread, thought I should crosspost here (and is likely my last post on the matter):

This was a free contest, not a mutually-agreed upon contract.  Ambiguity was pointed out in the rules, and they were clarified in the original thread and broadcast to all participants.  Burden of checking thread falls to the participants.  I had no obligation to individually notify guessers of the clarified rules - did you really expect me to PM everyone that had guessed to see if they wanted to change their weeks-from-now guess based on the time zone clarification?  That's stupid.  No, I'm not sending you any btc.

And I sent Goat 10 btc because he mentioned orphans (which I sent before you posted your butthurt thread, FWIW - I wasn't trying to spite you).

I did send you a PM after you had sent Goat the BTC.  You have not replied.  I had made my case repeatedly in threads before making comments about you personally.  But, you did not find my reasoning to be correct and so you sent goat the BTC.  That is when I began making threads such as this one.

[the joint]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

Check out my rep in honest traders.

you can be top notch honest guy, but i don't want anything to do with loony fruitcake side of you

That's up to you.

[FlipPro]

The joint,

No offense I like you alot, and enjoy reading your posts, but you're complaining about being burned for 5BTC while still having a link to a ponzi-scheme on your sig. It's kind of an oxymoron if you know what I mean...

Edit: Not trying to defend goat, or whoever the the scammer is. Just bringing up a good point, since you were talking about "deception", in your last posts..

[the joint]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

this is exactly the problem he is creating for himself that he can't see.  people like the joint focus only on technicalities and ignore social customs or grace.  and we wonder why our society faces such challenges.

Let's not forget such things as this: "The smartest student, I think, is the one who finds the most efficient means of passing any examination or test they come across. Yes, even by cheating."

We could say lying is also allowable by such an attitude, which is precisely the sort of thinking that causes the most harm to society. Lie, cheat, steal -- do whatever it takes to get ahead. For someone who posts regularly on the forums to say that he "never saw the rule change" is unlikely at best. I know I wouldn't trust the joint either after this little diatribe.

Do you even know what I meant by that and in what context?

Please do not assume you know exactly what I meant.  At least show the other members the context of that quote if you're going to use it.  For example, there are studies that show that children who are pathological liars are typically more intelligent (according to the g factor) than their peers because they are able to avoid negative consequences of their actions.  My "quote" was grounded in research AND rooted in a much different context.

[the joint]

The joint,

No offense I like you alot, and enjoy reading your posts, but you're complaining about being burned for 5BTC while still having a link to a ponzi-scheme on your sig. It's kind of an oxymoron if you know what I mean...

First, yes, I don't have a lot of money.  5 BTC to me is much more valuable than it is for some people.

And I'm complaining about being burned, not about being burned for 5 BTC.  I have many many posts warning the community about potential scammers when I noticed something was fishy.  I have always stated my problem with scams and have been genuine and honest in all my transactions on here.

All I am asking for is that honesty and fairness be returned in my direction.  I either 1.) Won the game fair and square or 2.)  Lost the game due to statistical unfairness.  I dont care if it was for .01 BTC, I would react  much the same way.  The principle is what is important to me here.  The amount of BTC is a mitigating factor.

And thanks for the compliment.

[Serge]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

Check out my rep in honest traders.

you can be top notch honest guy, but i don't want anything to do with loony fruitcake side of you

That's up to you.

it's pretty simple, watching this thread makes me think that any other simple misunderstandings could escalate to similar proportions.

[FlipPro]

The joint,

No offense I like you alot, and enjoy reading your posts, but you're complaining about being burned for 5BTC while still having a link to a ponzi-scheme on your sig. It's kind of an oxymoron if you know what I mean...

First, yes, I don't have a lot of money.  5 BTC to me is much more valuable than it is for some people.

And I'm complaining about being burned, not about being burned for 5 BTC.  I have many many posts warning the community about potential scammers when I noticed something was fishy.  I have always stated my problem with scams and have been genuine and honest in all my transactions on here.

All I am asking for is that honesty and fairness be returned in my direction.  I either 1.) Won the game fair and square or 2.)  Lost the game due to statistical unfairness.  I dont care if it was for .01 BTC, I would react  much the same way.  The principle is what is important to me here.  The amount of BTC is a mitigating factor.

And thanks for the compliment.

I understand... I will stay out of this one . Good luck trying to get this payment. This is why I hate "games" in the forums... It makes for unnecessary drama, because when it's time to pay up, no one has the dough lol.

[the joint]

i will tell you honestly the joint, after this thread i will probably ignore any future offerings (services,products,etc) from you if such may come to light. simply because of such a huge deal you've made over rules disagreement in a stupid game

the 1 btc is a gift, not a loan, enjoy it.

Check out my rep in honest traders.

you can be top notch honest guy, but i don't want anything to do with loony fruitcake side of you

That's up to you.

it's pretty simple, watching this thread makes me think that any other simple misunderstandings could escalate to similar proportions.

Fallacy of generalizing the specific, but that's yours to make.

This is simply an issue of fairness.  I am not treating this any differently than if it were a marketplace scam.  Unfairness is the common denominator of each situation, and that is what I am focusing on.

[Serge]

old_engineer tried to be as fair as possible to all players, you gotta give him credit for that and put this to rest.

it is also doubtful that you haven't seen that thread between first posting in it and yesterday

[the joint]

old_engineer tried to be as fair as possible to all players, you gotta give him credit for that and put this to rest.

it is also doubtful that you haven't seen that thread between first posting in it and yesterday

It's not exactly a thread that I needed to keep tabs on... "Omg, I wonder what this person guessed....omg, I wonder what this person guessed."

I put in a guess, forgot about it, then saw that the price was nearing $4 yesterday, and so the thread kept appearing atop my "show unread posts since last visit" link. 

It still doesn't change the fact that it was impossible for me to have won.  Since the GMT rule was implemented, I could not have guessed Dec. 20th because Goat had already guessed it.  So, the rule itself made it impossible for me to win because my guess would be nullified if I changed it to the "winning" date.

I will put it to rest after it has been addressed, just like any marketplace scam.

[Serge]

it wasn't a scam though, there was a winner and old_engineer paid his dues, although you don't agree with the outcome result.


>>> It's not exactly a thread that I needed to keep tabs on... "Omg, I wonder what this person guessed....omg, I wonder what this person guessed."

but now it is a huge deal?   make up your mind =)

[teflone]

This is petty, move on.

[the joint]

mods, please.

Yes, mods, please intervene if you feel necessary.

I feel I am morally, ethically, and rationally justified.  I have absolutely no problem with having this thread locked/removed if they, too, believe I am only blowing smoke.

A good game is fair for all players.  His rule created a statistical imbalance.  To win this game, skill is involved to a certain degree; a date 1 year from now is obviously a lot more likely than a date 10,000 years from now, and is a more skillful guess.  My skill was nullified as a factor the instant this rule was implemented for it prevented me from having the opportunity to change my answer to the winning answer.

My pms to both OldEngineer and Goat were civil.  I obviously have no issue with Goat other than I think he is holding 5 of my BTC, but 2.5 would be acceptable to me, and that's because I feel that it would be generous of me to allow him to keep 2.5 BTC.  I do not think he won, pure and simple.  Similarly, I have no problems with oldengineer outside of this situation.  I'm sure he's a good guy.  I just think he should understand that I think he screwed me over on this one, even if he doesn't see it the same way.

[the joint]

it wasn't a scam though, there was a winner and old_engineer paid his dues, although you don't agree with the outcome result.


>>> It's not exactly a thread that I needed to keep tabs on... "Omg, I wonder what this person guessed....omg, I wonder what this person guessed."

but now it is a huge deal?   make up your mind =)

The thread wasn't a huge deal because a surge towards $4 hadn't happened yet.  I cared to find out who won, and I actually had forgotten my guess and thought that I had guessed the 16th.  When I looked back and saw that I guessed the 19th, that's when I knew I'd won.