"Learn Bitcoin" is silent when farmed account queries are raised

[JollyGood]

A while back a post was made by Poker Player effectively stating he had suspicions that the Learn Bitcoin account was being operated by a known chief manipulator and multiple account operator (naim027). For those that might have no idea of the background to this matter, here is the post in question:

What's more, I'll tell you, I've long believed that this is one of naim027's accounts:

Learn Bitcoin

But I also believe that with this account he is not being a jerk and I doubt very much that he is going to be, since it is profitable enough for him to comply with the rules.

Here are some threads related to naim027:

'John Abraham ≈ naim027' Coincidence or Connection?
Please permaban naim027
an Appeal For naim027. (SOLVED)
Hello World || Welcome back again!

When an accusation is made, there are no set rules how one should address them. In my case, I mostly ignore threads are created in the Reputation board about me and maybe others can do the same if threads are created about them because not responding should not and does not imply guilt. However, I did send a PM to Learn Bitcoin asking him to post a direct response in that thread but he refused.

Here is my point of view on the matter. I think the Learn Bitcoin account has made a mistake by not responding to the comment in the same thread it was made. His subsequent refusal to address it does add to the speculation especially because naim027 was a prolific account farmer and also a compulsive liar that would gladly do whatever it took to line his pockets regardless of the way he did it.

Any genuine member that is assumed/presumed/accused/alluded to being an account operated by naim027 should probably address matter early on or as soon as possible to distance themselves from that name. I brought that post and thread to his attention via PM but the Learn Bitcoin account refused to post in that thread or engage.

Overall, what are the general views within the community on this matter?

[Free Market Capitalist]

Overall, what are the general views within the community on this matter?

Mine are summarized in the neutral feedback and in what I commented in this thread.

I'm sure Learn Bitcoin had at least one forum account before this one, and knows how to get positive feedback and get into DT. I also believe that he is a good forum user with this account, and I reflected that.

I have no strong evidence that this is an alt of Naim027, otherwise I would have red-tagged him. As everyone knows, I have a more precautionary view of the trust system, and I think that even if you do not have irrefutable evidence, if you have a fairly high subjective certainty (in my case 90% or more), you should leave a red tag if you think there is a high risk of trading with that person.

But whether it's an alt account of Naim027 or not, what I see is good behavior and that's what I have to go by. So I hope it stays that way and that's my final feedback.

I also believe that Naim027 has active alts on the forum and that he will eventually learn, if he hasn't already, that it is more profitable to follow the rules than to be an asshole. So unless we find evidence to the contrary, it's not worth wasting a lot of time and energy on this.

[Rikafip]

Here is my point of view on the matter. I think the Learn Bitcoin account has made a mistake by not responding to the comment in the same thread it was made.

I think the opposite, that he did the best thing for himself by not answering to those accusations because no matter what he says, those who think that account is part of the farm probably wouldn't change the opinion.
And we saw many times those who came and defended themselves just got into more troubles.

[yahoo62278]

Alt accounts are allowed. If the person in question isn't ban evading or scamming, then let them be IMO. What is your end goal here? To flush out an alt? I think that's where you need to start in your thinking. Are you suspecting them of a bigger picture scam? Does it just bother you and you need to know? I don't like stirring the pot if there is no reason for it is why I ask.

[JollyGood]

I also believe that Naim027 has active alts on the forum and that he will eventually learn, if he hasn't already, that it is more profitable to follow the rules than to be an asshole. So unless we find evidence to the contrary, it's not worth wasting a lot of time and energy on this.

I think I agree on this.

I think the opposite, that he did the best thing for himself by not answering to those accusations because no matter what he says, those who think that account is part of the farm probably wouldn't change the opinion.
And we saw many times those who came and defended themselves just got into more troubles.

Many times those that came along to defend themselves in the Reputation thread inadvertently exposed more accounts therefore on that front it probably makes sense for anybody that wants to hide their other farmed accounts to not try to defend themselves. Having said that, as I mentioned earlier by not posting in response does not equate to guilt but speculation will remain.

Does it just bother you and you need to know? I don't like stirring the pot if there is no reason for it is why I ask.

In the general sense I do not have much of an interest when something such as this happens but when it comes to Naim027 if there is any way to either confirm an account is or is not operated by him, I would take an interest (and the extent of which thus far is to create this thread).

[Free Market Capitalist]

Alt accounts are allowed. If the person in question isn't ban evading or scamming, then let them be IMO.

Hey yahoo62278, you seem like a broken record. And although you are generally right when you say this you don't seem to know who Naim027 is. Yes, he ban evaded and although he didn't scam I think he is one of the most hated people on the forum. Check out his profile and his 13 red tags.

I think, JollyGood, that you are not going to get very far with this thread as nutildah has also long had suspicions that some particular account is operated by naim027, but he has no proof, and he is surely not the only one.

[yahoo62278]

Alt accounts are allowed. If the person in question isn't ban evading or scamming, then let them be IMO.

Hey yahoo62278, you seem like a broken record. And although you are generally right when you say this you don't seem to know who Naim027 is. Yes, he ban evaded and although he didn't scam I think he is one of the most hated people on the forum. Check out his profile and his 13 red tags.

I think, JollyGood, that you are not going to get very far with this thread as nutildah has also long had suspicions that some particular account is operated by naim027, but he has no proof, and he is surely not the only one.

I've been on this forum over 10 years and dealt with thousands of users in that 10 years. I don't remember every user unless I had some sort of memorable interaction with them.

[Free Market Capitalist]

I've been on this forum over 10 years and dealt with thousands of users in that 10 years. I don't remember every user unless I had some sort of memorable interaction with them.

Man for 10 years in the forum I say it would not be bad that when they talk about someone in a reputation thread and you are going to respond do something as easy as putting “naim027 bitcointalk” in a search engine and click, it can cost you 10 seconds or less.

In addition to the fact that Naim027's case is quite well known.

[examplens]

When an accusation is made, there are no set rules how one should address them. In my case, I mostly ignore threads are created in the Reputation board about me and maybe others can do the same if threads are created about them because not responding should not and does not imply guilt. However, I did send a PM to Learn Bitcoin asking him to post a direct response in that thread but he refused.

Here is my point of view on the matter. I think the Learn Bitcoin account has made a mistake by not responding to the comment in the same thread it was made. His subsequent refusal to address it does add to the speculation especially because Naim027 was a prolific account farmer and also a compulsive liar that would gladly do whatever it took to line his pockets regardless of the way he did it.

Man, doesn't this seem a little twisted on your part? It's okay if you don't respond to every accusation against you, but it's a mistake if someone else ignores such things. 
The next thing in this case is to start some discussion that was closed much earlier and I did not see that any new case or evidence was presented about the whole matter. It is quite unclear to me why this topic is here again and what is expected as the final resolution here.

I exchanged a few messages with Learn Bitcoin a couple of times and I did not notice any bad behavior from him. I don't know if it is anyone's alt account, but with the second part here I would agree with Poker Player's statement, currently, LB seems like a correct member of the forum and until proven otherwise, I would not base an opinion about him based on presumption.

I'm sure Learn Bitcoin had at least one forum account before this one, and knows how to get positive feedback and get into DT. I also believe that he is a good forum user with this account, and I reflected that.

[JollyGood]

I think, JollyGood, that you are not going to get very far with this thread as nutildah has also long had suspicions that some particular account is operated by naim027, but he has no proof, and he is surely not the only one.

Well, he sent a PM effectively stating he does not want to engage therefore it certainly does not look good on his part. If it were about him being linked to a signature spammer working for tainted companies (such as 1xbit etc) then it would be different but he has been connected to a lowest of the low chief manipulator and compulsive liar in Naim 027 yet is happy to not pass comment. Maybe this thread will not achieve much but that is the way things go sometimes.

I've been on this forum over 10 years and dealt with thousands of users in that 10 years. I don't remember every user unless I had some sort of memorable interaction with them.

I understand your position, it really is hard to keep up with all the disgraced names that have been mentioned over the years and though you might not have any recollection of Naim027 and his known farmed accounts, some of us do. Actually, it was not that long ago that he used his farmed accounts creating multiple problems but if most of that was not picked up on your radar (or by other members) then that is something to be expected.

Man for 10 years in the forum I say it would not be bad that when they talk about someone in a reputation thread and you are going to respond do something as easy as putting “naim027 bitcointalk” in a search engine and click, it can cost you 10 seconds or less.

In addition to the fact that Naim027's case is quite well known.

He could possibly have searched for it (and I did link several threads in the OP too) but he and others might not recall. In the case of yahoo62278 he did post at least once about Naim027 but it is understandable sometimes threads and dramas pass do easily people by or they/we cannot recall every instance of that occurs or even remember posting in those threads at the time.

Honestly, this is a piss poor excuse for administration/moderators. It would take 1 hour max to review this case. The guy admitted his alts and ban evasion, CASE CLOSED. They fucked up unbanning him and don't wanna look foolish, or just being lazy about it.

Why does everyone act like admins and mods are toooooo busy and running multi billion dollar corporations? Most are regular people not too busy doing much of anything.

[yahoo62278]

I think, JollyGood, that you are not going to get very far with this thread as nutildah has also long had suspicions that some particular account is operated by naim027, but he has no proof, and he is surely not the only one.

Well, he sent a PM effectively stating he does not want to engage therefore it certainly does not look good on his part. If it were about him being linked to a signature spammer working for tainted companies (such as 1xbit etc) then it would be different but he has been connected to a lowest of the low chief manipulator and compulsive liar in Naim 027 yet is happy to not pass comment. Maybe this thread will not achieve much but that is the way things go sometimes.

I've been on this forum over 10 years and dealt with thousands of users in that 10 years. I don't remember every user unless I had some sort of memorable interaction with them.

I understand your position, it really is hard to keep up with all the disgraced names that have been mentioned over the years and though you might not have any recollection of Naim027 and his known farmed accounts, some of us do. Actually, it was not that long ago that he used his farmed accounts creating multiple problems but of most of that was not picked up on your radar (or by other members) then that is something to be expected.

Man for 10 years in the forum I say it would not be bad that when they talk about someone in a reputation thread and you are going to respond do something as easy as putting “naim027 bitcointalk” in a search engine and click, it can cost you 10 seconds or less.

In addition to the fact that Naim027's case is quite well known.

He could possibly have searched for it (and I did link several threads in the OP too) but he and others might not recall. In the case of yahoo62278 he did post at least once about Naim027 but it is understandable sometimes threads and dramas pass do easily people by or they/we cannot recall every instance of that occurs or even remember posting in those threads at the time.

Honestly, this is a piss poor excuse for administration/moderators. It would take 1 hour max to review this case. The guy admitted his alts and ban evasion, CASE CLOSED. They fucked up unbanning him and don't wanna look foolish, or just being lazy about it.

Why does everyone act like admins and mods are toooooo busy and running multi billion dollar corporations? Most are regular people not too busy doing much of anything.

I vaguely remember the Naim guy and the quote of mine stating the mods fucked up, but that doesn't change the fact that just because I comment in a thread I am not allowed to ask questions as to your end game, nor does it make my comment wrong.

I have no issue with this thread and you trying to investigate if someone is connected to someone who should be banned. Let's not forget that the guy was banned for plagiarism which doesn't exactly make him a big bitcointalk scammer, just a lazy douche.

Not sure why Poker Player has decided only his way matters, but it is what it is. Like i said, I deal with thousands of users a year and don't recall everything right off the top of my head in most cases.

[Free Market Capitalist]

Not sure why Poker Player has decided only his way matters, but it is what it is.

False. Unless for you "has decided only his way matters"  is to suggest to someone that when they are going to talk about another person in this section, they should spend a few seconds visiting the other person's profile.

For me you got mad at me because you got annoyed that I told you something obvious that you hadn't done and now it's your emotional part that is responding.

[yahoo62278]

Not sure why Poker Player has decided only his way matters, but it is what it is.

False. Unless for you "has decided only his way matters"  is to suggest to someone that when they are going to talk about another person in this section, they should spend a few seconds visiting the other person's profile.

For me you got mad at me because you got annoyed that I told you something obvious that you hadn't done and now it's your emotional part that is responding.

I've been on this forum over 10 years and dealt with thousands of users in that 10 years. I don't remember every user unless I had some sort of memorable interaction with them.

Man for 10 years in the forum I say it would not be bad that when they talk about someone in a reputation thread and you are going to respond do something as easy as putting “naim027 bitcointalk” in a search engine and click, it can cost you 10 seconds or less.

In addition to the fact that Naim027's case is quite well known.

You assume I should remember every douche on this forum is where I have an issue. Regardless of whether I search a guys name and get acquainted with his past, my questions are still valid. Now that Jollygood has reminded me of him, it's a case of plagiarism, nothing more IMO. Still should be banned but not on the top 100 bitcoin scammers ever. So essentially a waste of everyones time to even care about the guy.

It's definitely not worth you or myself going off as IMO he doesn't matter and why we are talking about it still is beyond me. If you have that big an issue, refrain from commenting my name and i'll do the same for you. Pretty simple solution.

[Free Market Capitalist]

You assume I should remember every douche on this forum is where I have an issue.

False.

Regardless of whether I search a guys name and get acquainted with his past, my questions are still valid.

The questions yes, but not these statements:

Alt accounts are allowed. If the person in question isn't ban evading or scamming, then let them be IMO.

So essentially a waste of everyones time to even care about the guy.

I agree on this

If you have that big an issue, refrain from commenting my name and i'll do the same for you. Pretty simple solution.

No, it's not a big issue but you make me think you've had a few drinks when you're arguing basic stuff with me.

[AB de Royse777]

For me you got mad at me because you got annoyed that I told you something obvious that you hadn't done and now it's your emotional part that is responding.

When you leave reasons for annoying then obviously people will be annoyed. Don't expect people to bravo you for nothing.

You know what I suspect? Poker Player is airfinex (I have a heavy feeling about it but I have no proof).

So, how are you going to handle the accusation?

You can not prove you are not. If you are airfinex then obviously you will not admit it. Which means unless you are stupid, it is wise for you not to response the nonsenses. Both you are JG are nonsense that's why the topic came to this far. 

[JeromeTash]

Maybe knowing how heated things can get here, Learn Bitcoin is trying to avoid the Reputation board for now. I know another member who avoids the reputations board even when his name or suspicions are mentioned but without anything proving the criminating evidence, then I think we should let them be. Silence does not mean someone is guilty.

Looking at this

What's more, I'll tell you, I've long believed that this is one of naim027's accounts:

Learn Bitcoin

But I also believe that with this account he is not being a jerk and I doubt very much that he is going to be, since it is profitable enough for him to comply with the rules.

Potentially, Poker Player can help us point out how he concluded that Learn Bitcoin = naim027. I am one of the members who dealt with him in the past and left him some positive feedback because he was helpful to me, so to some extent I am concerned about this development.

[JollyGood]

I vaguely remember the Naim guy and the quote of mine stating the mods fucked up, but that doesn't change the fact that just because I comment in a thread I am not allowed to ask questions as to your end game, nor does it make my comment wrong.  

Agreed. The only way clarity can be ascertained is by asking about it.

I have no issue with this thread and you trying to investigate if someone is connected to someone who should be banned. Let's not forget that the guy was banned for plagiarism which doesn't exactly make him a big bitcointalk scammer, just a lazy douche.

I also cannot recall him scamming either but enrolling as many farmed accounts as he could on campaigns in one thing but eventually by default infiltrating (or possibly one day being in a position to infiltrate) DT is a different matter altogether. In the scamming department he might have kept away from controversy but if someone is conducting in form form of nefarious conduct then there is no reason to believe they will not change paths if an opportunity arose.

Not sure why Poker Player has decided only his way matters, but it is what it is. Like i said, I deal with thousands of users a year and don't recall everything right off the top of my head in most cases.

You assume I should remember every douche on this forum is where I have an issue. Regardless of whether I search a guys name and get acquainted with his past, my questions are still valid. Now that Jollygood has reminded me of him, it's a case of plagiarism, nothing more IMO. Still should be banned but not on the top 100 bitcoin scammers ever. So essentially a waste of everyones time to even care about the guy.

I would agree in the general sense but when it comes to Naim027 I would try advocate caution because if he infiltrates DT then it is not good for anybody using the forum.

Both you are JG are nonsense that's why the topic came to this far.  

Says the person that congratulated Naim027 for getting the ban lifted. Not only that, also employs him to check spreadsheets and works with him and speaks highly of Naim027  

[Free Market Capitalist]

When you leave reasons for annoying then obviously people will be annoyed. Don't expect people to bravo you for nothing.

Man, Royse777 AB, long time no discussion you and me around here. Is Naim027 still working for you? Yeah well, I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be upset too if I told you that when you go to talk about someone it wouldn't hurt to spend a few seconds of your life visiting their profile.

You know what I suspect? Poker Player is airfinex (I have a heavy feeling about it but I have no proof).

I couldn't care less.

So, how are you going to handle the accusation?

I am not.

You can not prove you are not. If you are airfinex then obviously you will not admit it. Which means unless you are stupid, it is wise for you not to response the nonsenses.

You are confusing me with JG here. I'm not the one who sent Learn Bitcoin a PM and I'm saying it's suspicious that he doesn't respond, the one who is saying that is JG.

I wouldn't respond to nonsense either, that's why you can open a thread about me being an airfinex alt. But I hope you don't show up with a Telegram screenshot, which I haven't even had installed for months.

[icopress]

I have no idea who Naim027 is, but I can say that when I saw this thread I remembered that one of the Starbets employees mentioned this name in the work chat in the context of this user having access to their corporate account. From what I understood from the conversation, he was doing some work for them .. maybe announcements or something like that. I don't have any archives of the chat because it was about two years ago.

[worldofcoins]

When you leave reasons for annoying then obviously people will be annoyed. Don't expect people to bravo you for nothing.

Man, Royse777 AB, long time no discussion you and me around here. Is Naim027 still working for you? Yeah well, I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be upset too if I told you that when you go to talk about someone it wouldn't hurt to spend a few seconds of your life visiting their profile.

Most of the time, when people defend someone in public then, there are the following reasons I have seen:
1. They don't want something to happen to them that has happened to the person they're defending.
2. They're close.
3. They've business deals (Can be shown in private or not, depending on many factors).


Anyways, there's another person Royse was defending in the past who got accused of scamming a good chunk from bounty (Advice to reform was given, but the guy straight out exited the convo with F**K You attitude), but due to lack of evidence and slippery tactics, the person got away. I have no problem with it; people around me in real life use these tactics more effectively than people here do online.