XYES.COM SCAM ( UPD they returned the winnings)

[holydarkness]

He didn’t arb. You have no proof he arbed. All value bettors get flagged. No one arbs for $20. If you think he did what would he profit from betting $20 both sides?

I do.

Otherwise, I won't write as above or if we borrow your word, that you said and I quote: "holydarkness - case closed". The detection was not made by casino, rather by the provider, of which I strongly assume has OP's past history with other casinos. Hence it's probably sufficient to explain how they can tell "just" from the three bets the player made on this.


Edit for your edit:

[...]
You are posting a ton of irrelevant information about KYC. Show two bet slips showing he made an arbitrage bet. That’s all you need to look at.
[...]

Actually, what I want to show is specifically this:

that OP threaten to weaponize forum to smear the casino's name. Why? Because the casino rejected his ID. Why? Because they first rejected his NID for some reason, and asked for passport, and he watermarked it, thus effectively tampering with original photo, which casinos understandably can't accept. And when they didn't accept, above is what he said.

Question: aren't you curious and stopped to think for a second why OP choose yet another small casinos, and bumped into yet another situation while this first one is still unresolved?

[Rating Place]

I'm not curious because I did the same thing for years. You take what you can get and move on. I use to be able to even get sister books such as BetPhoenix and BetMania. Now it's tougher. I've used line services, still do, and have been logged in to 10 books at once although I punched in all bets manually.

Question- why are you looking at other things that don’t matter when all you need is for XYes to show you two bet slips proving arbitrage?

[Woodie]

I dare myself to assume that OP have tendency to deliberately jump from one small casino [again] to others, in hope that the flag on his profile don't caught with him soon[er] and I'll invite us to focus on the third image on OP's chat that hint to possible trait of extortionist.

Don't want to take sides but I will be neutral as I can.

Before we talk about OPs watermarked documents (that's a first) and extortion,  just wanted to ask if the KYC requirements were just some routine procedure by them or the player did something that triggers KYC because why should the narrative be always when trying to take out money

OP, darwstallI will be glad to be proven wrong, so do you mind to inform us why you're asked [and refused] to do KYC on that casino?

You play on the platform,  you agree to play by their rules...player brought the heat on themselves for not playing along... But still he too deserves a reason for having to do this whole process of Data sharing.

[Rating Place]

I dare myself to assume that OP have tendency to deliberately jump from one small casino [again] to others, in hope that the flag on his profile don't caught with him soon[er] and I'll invite us to focus on the third image on OP's chat that hint to possible trait of extortionist.

Don't want to take sides but I will be neutral as I can.

Before we talk about OPs watermarked documents (that's a first) and extortion,  just wanted to ask if the KYC requirements were just some routine procedure by them or the player did something that triggers KYC because why should the narrative be always when trying to take out money

OP, darwstallI will be glad to be proven wrong, so do you mind to inform us why you're asked [and refused] to do KYC on that casino?

You play on the platform,  you agree to play by their rules...player brought the heat on themselves for not playing along...

the player didn’t bring heat upon himself. He got flagged because he made good bets. Every person that has been limited has been flagged. It’s risk management and they normally get limited automatically.

Not only this but XYes advertised as being no KYC when the OP started playing there. XYes changed KYC policy when OP asked for withdrawal. They took it off their banner. They also took down the fake license and 800,000 players. He was the first to do KYC. This still has nothing to do with the accusation of arbing.

[holydarkness]

I'm not curious because I did the same thing for years. You take what you can get and move on. I use to be able to even get sister books such as BetPhoenix and BetMania. Now it's tougher. I've used line services, still do, and have been logged in to 10 books at once although I punched in all bets manually.

Question- why are you looking at other things that don’t matter when all you need is for XYes to show you two bet slips proving arbitrage?

And I've told you, twice, one hinted and one explicitly, if you bother to read carefully, I've seen the evidence. The provider mark him. Hence the "looking at other things" of which I shall assume you're referring the instance of me bringing OP's other case. I am calling for a motive, as it might shows pattern, jumping from one small casinos to another and threaten the casino [this one might got threatened too, behind the scene, though I will strike that out from statement].

I dare myself to assume that OP have tendency to deliberately jump from one small casino [again] to others, in hope that the flag on his profile don't caught with him soon[er] and I'll invite us to focus on the third image on OP's chat that hint to possible trait of extortionist.

Don't want to take sides but I will be neutral as I can.

Before we talk about OPs watermarked documents (that's a first) and extortion,  just wanted to ask if the KYC requirements were just some routine procedure by them or the player did something that triggers KYC because why should the narrative be always when trying to take out money

OP, darwstallI will be glad to be proven wrong, so do you mind to inform us why you're asked [and refused] to do KYC on that casino?

You play on the platform,  you agree to play by their rules...player brought the heat on themselves for not playing along... But still he too deserves a reason for having to do this whole process of Data sharing.

Is KYC a routine requirement? Depends on the casino.

One particular casino actually "locked" KYC prior to a violation. Players can't do KYC as they wish, before they made a violation, because the casino guarantee that as long players play by the rules, they won't ask KYC. Other casino require standard KYC prior to deposit, namely right after signing up and before you can play, and ask for advanced ones after a violation. Other casinos [plural] ask KYC following big win and withdrawal.

But, speaking generally for  advanced KYC from several [big] casinos, yes, they usually go with full KYC first before explaining why and what violation made. Why? I assume it's because they try to get to the player's data, put faces into names before they do the investigation and explain the violation, so they have it in their database, suppose the player bailed and created another account.

Suppose the procedure is reversed, "hello holydarkness, we've found you to [name of violation here], can you please do level-3 and level-4 KYC so we can proceed to confiscate your winning as per our ToS?" I guess I'll just leave them and create new account instead of complying.

Not only this but XYes advertised as being no KYC when the OP started playing there. XYes changed KYC policy when OP asked for withdrawal. They took it off their banner. They also took down the fake license and 800,000 players. He was the first to do KYC. This still has nothing to do with the accusation of arbing.

On XYes case of false banner, I fully agree that it's misleading, as per what I wrote in the past. Their excuse of "it won't fit to our banner" was not plausible as we all know all marketing in this blue ball of water and tiny patches of lands and greens and nuclear missiles need is a small asterix with an even smaller "*terms and condition applied".

But uhh... I think you understand the question Woodie asked wrongly? Unless I am the one that's wrong? The heat for not playing along is about other casino where he watermarked his passport, which automatically make the KYC document as being tampered.

[Rating Place]

I'm not curious because I did the same thing for years. You take what you can get and move on. I use to be able to even get sister books such as BetPhoenix and BetMania. Now it's tougher. I've used line services, still do, and have been logged in to 10 books at once although I punched in all bets manually.

Question- why are you looking at other things that don’t matter when all you need is for XYes to show you two bet slips proving arbitrage?

And I've told you, twice, one hinted and one explicitly, if you bother to read carefully, I've seen the evidence. The provider mark him. Hence the "looking at other things" of which I shall assume you're referring the instance of me bringing OP's other case. I am calling for a motive, as it might shows pattern, jumping from one small casinos to another and threaten the casino [this one might got threatened too, behind the scene, though I will strike that out from statement].

I dare myself to assume that OP have tendency to deliberately jump from one small casino [again] to others, in hope that the flag on his profile don't caught with him soon[er] and I'll invite us to focus on the third image on OP's chat that hint to possible trait of extortionist.

Don't want to take sides but I will be neutral as I can.

Before we talk about OPs watermarked documents (that's a first) and extortion,  just wanted to ask if the KYC requirements were just some routine procedure by them or the player did something that triggers KYC because why should the narrative be always when trying to take out money

OP, darwstallI will be glad to be proven wrong, so do you mind to inform us why you're asked [and refused] to do KYC on that casino?

You play on the platform,  you agree to play by their rules...player brought the heat on themselves for not playing along... But still he too deserves a reason for having to do this whole process of Data sharing.

Is KYC a routine requirement? Depends on the casino.

One particular casino actually "locked" KYC prior to a violation. Players can't do KYC as they wish, before they made a violation, because the casino guarantee that as long players play by the rules, they won't ask KYC. Other casino require standard KYC prior to deposit, namely right after signing up and before you can play, and ask for advanced ones after a violation. Other casinos [plural] ask KYC following big win and withdrawal.

But, speaking generally for  advanced KYC from several [big] casinos, yes, they usually go with full KYC first before explaining why and what violation made. Why? I assume it's because they try to get to the player's data, put faces into names before they do the investigation and explain the violation, so they have it in their database, suppose the player bailed and created another account.

Suppose the procedure is reversed, "hello holydarkness, we've found you to [name of violation here], can you please do level-3 and level-4 KYC so we can proceed to confiscate your winning as per our ToS?" I guess I'll just leave them and create new account instead of complying.

Not only this but XYes advertised as being no KYC when the OP started playing there. XYes changed KYC policy when OP asked for withdrawal. They took it off their banner. They also took down the fake license and 800,000 players. He was the first to do KYC. This still has nothing to do with the accusation of arbing.

On XYes case of false banner, I fully agree that it's misleading, as per what I wrote in the past. Their excuse of "it won't fit to our banner" was not plausible as we all know all marketing in this blue ball of water and tiny patches of lands and greens and nuclear missiles need is a small asterix with an even smaller "*terms and condition applied".

But uhh... I think you understand the question Woodie asked wrongly? Unless I am the one that's wrong? The heat for not playing along is about other casino where he watermarked his passport, which automatically make the KYC document as being tampered.

The player had money confiscated for arbitrage betting. No one had proof of arbitrage betting. No one in the history of the world makes $20 arbs each side. Should be end of case.

[ziportan]

I'm not curious because I did the same thing for years. You take what you can get and move on. I use to be able to even get sister books such as BetPhoenix and BetMania. Now it's tougher. I've used line services, still do, and have been logged in to 10 books at once although I punched in all bets manually.

Question- why are you looking at other things that don’t matter when all you need is for XYes to show you two bet slips proving arbitrage?

And I've told you, twice, one hinted and one explicitly, if you bother to read carefully, I've seen the evidence. The provider mark him. Hence the "looking at other things" of which I shall assume you're referring the instance of me bringing OP's other case. I am calling for a motive, as it might shows pattern, jumping from one small casinos to another and threaten the casino [this one might got threatened too, behind the scene, though I will strike that out from statement].

I dare myself to assume that OP have tendency to deliberately jump from one small casino [again] to others, in hope that the flag on his profile don't caught with him soon[er] and I'll invite us to focus on the third image on OP's chat that hint to possible trait of extortionist.

Don't want to take sides but I will be neutral as I can.

Before we talk about OPs watermarked documents (that's a first) and extortion,  just wanted to ask if the KYC requirements were just some routine procedure by them or the player did something that triggers KYC because why should the narrative be always when trying to take out money

OP, darwstallI will be glad to be proven wrong, so do you mind to inform us why you're asked [and refused] to do KYC on that casino?

You play on the platform,  you agree to play by their rules...player brought the heat on themselves for not playing along... But still he too deserves a reason for having to do this whole process of Data sharing.

Is KYC a routine requirement? Depends on the casino.

One particular casino actually "locked" KYC prior to a violation. Players can't do KYC as they wish, before they made a violation, because the casino guarantee that as long players play by the rules, they won't ask KYC. Other casino require standard KYC prior to deposit, namely right after signing up and before you can play, and ask for advanced ones after a violation. Other casinos [plural] ask KYC following big win and withdrawal.

But, speaking generally for  advanced KYC from several [big] casinos, yes, they usually go with full KYC first before explaining why and what violation made. Why? I assume it's because they try to get to the player's data, put faces into names before they do the investigation and explain the violation, so they have it in their database, suppose the player bailed and created another account.

Suppose the procedure is reversed, "hello holydarkness, we've found you to [name of violation here], can you please do level-3 and level-4 KYC so we can proceed to confiscate your winning as per our ToS?" I guess I'll just leave them and create new account instead of complying.

Not only this but XYes advertised as being no KYC when the OP started playing there. XYes changed KYC policy when OP asked for withdrawal. They took it off their banner. They also took down the fake license and 800,000 players. He was the first to do KYC. This still has nothing to do with the accusation of arbing.

On XYes case of false banner, I fully agree that it's misleading, as per what I wrote in the past. Their excuse of "it won't fit to our banner" was not plausible as we all know all marketing in this blue ball of water and tiny patches of lands and greens and nuclear missiles need is a small asterix with an even smaller "*terms and condition applied".

But uhh... I think you understand the question Woodie asked wrongly? Unless I am the one that's wrong? The heat for not playing along is about other casino where he watermarked his passport, which automatically make the KYC document as being tampered.

The player had money confiscated for arbitrage betting. No one had proof of arbitrage betting. No one in the history of the world makes $20 arbs each side. Should be end of case.

its turning into an endless circle..

i think the point here is understood

xyes is a scam casino that intentionally lies about many things from number of users to licence info to player behavours etc etc

probably they realized they are fucked up after all these and stopped their marketing on the forum. so probably they ll come up with a new name in a while, since its extremely easy to just buy a template script and open a casino. even if no, its others` responsibility to choose this bookie after all this shit surfaced.

theres obviously no proof of any wrongdoing of the op nor mine, but apparently they ll not pay us the money they stole either..

[Woodie]

The player had money confiscated for arbitrage betting. No one had proof of arbitrage betting. No one in the history of the world makes $20 arbs each side. Should be end of case.

Here we go again... lets call a spade a spade, the arb card is being misused alot these day's because they know evidence is for their eyes only !!

If we are going to accuse a player for arbitrage betting, you better have the evidence and not just throwing these accusations around out of suspicion.

BTW that $20 profit can still be arbed...arb has no minimum of how much can be made, with arb your input determines your output

Anyway not to stire this away...@Holy any verdict from them yet.

[Rating Place]

The player had money confiscated for arbitrage betting. No one had proof of arbitrage betting. No one in the history of the world makes $20 arbs each side. Should be end of case.

Here we go again... lets call a dpade a spade, the arb card is being misused alot these day's because they know evidence is for their eyes only !!

If we are going to accuse a player for arbitrage betting, you better have the evidence and not just throwing these accusations around out of suspicion.

BTW that $20 profit can still be arbed...arb has no minimum of how much can be made, with arb your input determines your output

You can arb $1 both sides but no one does it. I don’t remember exact numbers but the other guy made 4 bets  $2, $4, $12 and $28. Any reasonable person would look at this and say he didn’t arb. I posted an arb calculator in one of the threads to show amounts.

But you make the most important post here. If you are going to accuse arb, then have proof.


Edit - For the two players, if you get limited at one Betby book, you can still play at another and bet whatever the second book allows. It’s not your responsibility to check provider. They won’t know that you are the same player if you change device, IP and wallet.

[holydarkness]

The player had money confiscated for arbitrage betting. No one had proof of arbitrage betting. No one in the history of the world makes $20 arbs each side. Should be end of case.

Here we go again... lets call a spade a spade, the arb card is being misused alot these day's because they know evidence is for their eyes only !!

If we are going to accuse a player for arbitrage betting, you better have the evidence and not just throwing these accusations around out of suspicion.

BTW that $20 profit can still be arbed...arb has no minimum of how much can be made, with arb your input determines your output

Anyway not to stire this away...@Holy any verdict from them yet.

No, I haven't. I'm still trying to wrap myself for one or two "tiny" details and I go straight to get ready for RL matters while I put those thing at the backburner of my mind, and I just jump into this thread before leaving and return few good hours later to... confirm. It won't matter much anyway, at this time, due to timezone difference, I can text them now or later this afternoon or evening, and I'll still get my reply most likely tomorrow at the soonest, because they work strictly on their working hours and if I understand correctly, their working hours is already over.

Anyway, the two things that bothering me and I tried to figure out are... the 20 USD arb, where do the number come from? And [this is the bigger point], I think this is a good telltale of arbing?



As I've [others as well] mentioned in several occasions, the simplest telltale of arbing is a weird number in the wager as the arbrer need to maximize their profit, like 12.41, 71.39, 94.56. Is 94.56 a weird number or is it just... me?

[Rating Place]

The other player had the small bets. You are right that the strange numbers are a sign of automated arbitrage. That’s speculation. The other thing is no other book would confiscate money under the same circumstances. This is text book sharp action where the odds provider automatically limits and makes the book aware. As I’ve said, XYes has two bets playing both sides or they don’t. If they don’t then the player should be paid in full.

[ziportan]

The player had money confiscated for arbitrage betting. No one had proof of arbitrage betting. No one in the history of the world makes $20 arbs each side. Should be end of case.

Here we go again... lets call a spade a spade, the arb card is being misused alot these day's because they know evidence is for their eyes only !!

If we are going to accuse a player for arbitrage betting, you better have the evidence and not just throwing these accusations around out of suspicion.

BTW that $20 profit can still be arbed...arb has no minimum of how much can be made, with arb your input determines your output

Anyway not to stire this away...@Holy any verdict from them yet.

No, I haven't. I'm still trying to wrap myself for one or two "tiny" details and I go straight to get ready for RL matters while I put those thing at the backburner of my mind, and I just jump into this thread before leaving and return few good hours later to... confirm. It won't matter much anyway, at this time, due to timezone difference, I can text them now or later this afternoon or evening, and I'll still get my reply most likely tomorrow at the soonest, because they work strictly on their working hours and if I understand correctly, their working hours is already over.

Anyway, the two things that bothering me and I tried to figure out are... the 20 USD arb, where do the number come from? And [this is the bigger point], I think this is a good telltale of arbing?



As I've [others as well] mentioned in several occasions, the simplest telltale of arbing is a weird number in the wager as the arbrer need to maximize their profit, like 12.41, 71.39, 94.56. Is 94.56 a weird number or is it just... me?

yes its just you. and the bookies lol

maybe he had like 294.56 in his balance and he wanted a round number left.. maybe it was a max bet.. or he basically wanted to bet that amount, since its not forbidden yet.. or is it?

bro, you basically saw nothing as a proof on their behalf, so no need to try to discredit players while youre waiting for an update

[Rating Place]

The thing is XYes lied to Holydarkness about not updating their license since they didn't have one. There's no reason to contact them because they don't tell the truth.

They told me that it was indeed an outdated one

[darwstall]

People complicate things so much, they can't bring coupons from 2 providers and show that I am a violator, they start looking at the amounts of my bets, this is just such nonsense. As for the other casino, I want to say that I am simply powerless in their demands, they ask me for something that I do not have. They completely rejected two real documents, this site as a lever of pressure, because the casino does not listen to me, and this is good, because I can post this problem so that people can see that the casino is arranging a bacchanalia to check documents, and not for the purpose of extortion, although each person decides for himself what he sees, most people who have placed on their avatar casino sponsor see only extortion. But I am a player who brought money to his casino, can't you be more polite to me?

[ziportan]

The thing is XYes lied to Holydarkness about not updating their license since they didn't have one. There's no reason to contact them because they don't tell the truth.

the thing is , holydarkness is prone to believe anything that the casinos say -although they are OBVIOUS lies- than the players claims which are supported by actual evidences..

op asked him for help,  and now hes talking about the betting amounts, why he was kyc`d so early, hes jumping from one casino to another.. NONE of these are the fucking issue here.

1. WHERES THE FUCKING EVIDENCE?

2. WHAT THE FUCK ARE CASINO REPS HERE FOR IF THEY NEVER REPLY TO YOUR CLAIMS ON THEIR THREADS OR SCAM ACCUSATIONS AND THEY ARE ONLY DOING BACKDOOR HUSH HUSH TALKS WITH `TRUSTED MEMBERS` WHICH WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE OF WHY THE FUCK THEY ARE `TRUSTED` COS TO ME ALL OF THEM ARE EQUALLY FISHY




theres a reason i didnt ask any help of him and now i see that i was right. would be an extra session of being accused like i didnt have enough

[Rating Place]

People complicate things so much, they can't bring coupons from 2 providers and show that I am a violator, they start looking at the amounts of my bets, this is just such nonsense. As for the other casino, I want to say that I am simply powerless in their demands, they ask me for something that I do not have. They completely rejected two real documents, this site as a lever of pressure, because the casino does not listen to me, and this is good, because I can post this problem so that people can see that the casino is arranging a bacchanalia to check documents, and not for the purpose of extortion, although each person decides for himself what he sees, most people who have placed on their avatar casino sponsor see only extortion. But I am a player who brought money to his casino, can't you be more polite to me?

Neither one of you should be accused of anything other than arbitrage betting. XYes said you two did arbitrage betting. Now prove it. You two shouldn't have to answer any more questions because it's irrelevant.

[darwstall]

The thing is XYes lied to Holydarkness about not updating their license since they didn't have one. There's no reason to contact them because they don't tell the truth.

the thing is , holydarkness is prone to believe anything that the casinos say -although they are OBVIOUS lies- than the players claims which are supported by actual evidences..

op asked him for help,  and now hes talking about the betting amounts, why he was kyc`d so early, hes jumping from one casino to another.. NONE of these are the fucking issue here.

1. WHERES THE FUCKING EVIDENCE?

2. WHAT THE FUCK ARE CASINO REPS HERE FOR IF THEY NEVER REPLY TO YOUR CLAIMS ON THEIR THREADS OR SCAM ACCUSATIONS AND THEY ARE ONLY DOING BACKDOOR HUSH HUSH TALKS WITH `TRUSTED MEMBERS` WHICH WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE OF WHY THE FUCK THEY ARE `TRUSTED` COS TO ME ALL OF THEM ARE EQUALLY FISHY




theres a reason i didnt ask any help of him and now i see that i was right. would be an extra session of being accused like i didnt have enough

well as one of the players said, this character holydarkness is not here to help players, but to continue to blame players, and he uses bet amounts as an argument, not real evidence. haha ​​this site is fucking useless

[Rating Place]

The thing is XYes lied to Holydarkness about not updating their license since they didn't have one. There's no reason to contact them because they don't tell the truth.

the thing is , holydarkness is prone to believe anything that the casinos say -although they are OBVIOUS lies- than the players claims which are supported by actual evidences..

op asked him for help,  and now hes talking about the betting amounts, why he was kyc`d so early, hes jumping from one casino to another.. NONE of these are the fucking issue here.

1. WHERES THE FUCKING EVIDENCE?

2. WHAT THE FUCK ARE CASINO REPS HERE FOR IF THEY NEVER REPLY TO YOUR CLAIMS ON THEIR THREADS OR SCAM ACCUSATIONS AND THEY ARE ONLY DOING BACKDOOR HUSH HUSH TALKS WITH `TRUSTED MEMBERS` WHICH WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE OF WHY THE FUCK THEY ARE `TRUSTED` COS TO ME ALL OF THEM ARE EQUALLY FISHY




theres a reason i didnt ask any help of him and now i see that i was right. would be an extra session of being accused like i didnt have enough

holydarkness, he does make a good point. You have to stop believing everything the casino and casino reps tell you.

Getting flagged doesn’t mean arbitrage. The OP got flagged for CLV (closing line VALUE )

[holydarkness]

This is to reply in general to the entire development of the thread after I leave for RL.

Actually... it can't be OP's remaining fund, thus he wager all or to make it round, because I happen to know his deposit amount. Unless... the casino indeed manipulate the data, of which OP can always prove/disprove by showing us the screenshot of his deposits and the TXID. You'll kill two birds with one stone, OP: explaining that the odd number is indeed because due to harmless reason and not due to telltale of arbing, simply related to preference from your deposit, as well as prove that what my contact supply me with falsified info.

Otherwise, why the odd wager? If we may ask? Not arbing, right?

Moving to next topic, it'll be why I am trying to determine whether that's an arb or not. Well, it's because I'm trying to find middle ground. As always, I'm here not in the capacity to pass judgment or deliver verdict, or to rate, simply to see a case to an end. One side says he's not arbing, another add I trust blindly, the other side, the casino, proves to me with evidence of arbing. Thus, one possible way to see an end to it is by meeting in the middle: void what was believed to be arbing and return what's legally won.

Sounds fair to me, to meet in the middle, that's the best solution I can think of. Simple, but effective and fair, given the casino have policy of arbing, and there was indeed a bet that rather had characteristics of arbing. Hence, I asked if it looks like arbing or just me, so I can draft my "proposal" to them to meet OP in the middle in the condition that the overseers majorly agrees.

But uhh... yeah, that all will be no longer necessary and matter to me.

holydarkness, he does make a good point. You have to stop believing everything the casino and casino reps tell you. All 5 of your contacts were wrong about odds providers. Now you are saying XYes showed proof of arbitrage betting. They didn’t show you any proof.

Getting flagged doesn’t mean arbitrage. It could be CLV (closing line value). You will get flagged for CLV and that’s what most likely happened.

Amuse and enlighten me at the same time, then. I ask five different casino representatives about sportsbook providers, and they were all wrong? All five of them? Why is that and who or what should I believe then, and why?

For the record, the proof they're showing me for this case is their version of the similar-fashioned proof shown by other casinos. I should not believing that proof too? Thus, the evidence shown by other casinos in different cases should not be trusted too? And why is that? Safe to assume the other casinos also fabricate evidence of arbing? In a very similar fashion? How's that achievable? All casinos, has similar fashioned evidence, only differ slightly. Is it because they conspire behind the screen? Or what? Again, so who and what to believe and why?

And, last: when you said no migraine, it's because you're expecting me to have the casino pay the player, otherwise, when an evidence showed me other thing that'll make it rather justified to confiscate half or full fund [their ToS covered this] and I look for a way to find middle ground and question things, those "no headache" no longer valid?

I can't see the asterix on that statement, *as long as you make it in favor to player.

Oh, by the way, yes, unlike above section that no longer matter to me, I am expecting an answer for each and every question I raised to you here.

[Rating Place]

I edited my post. Had 2nd thoughts on discussing but since you asked.

1. Value betting= CLV (closing line Value) not arbitrage.
2. All 5 of your reps were wrong. They said the odds provider makes the final decision.
3. You only got a headache because you were unaware of the meaning of CLV. You should have stopped when they showed no proof of arbitrage.
4. I know what those player analysis sheets are that you are talking about. Once again it said Value or CLV. It didn’t say arbitrage from the provider and you know it.
5. There is no middle ground. XYes made up another story and changed from Value to Arb.



Example of value betting:
OP makes a bet at odds of 2.25.
Line closes 2.15.
It has 0 to do with arbitrage.

Make a few of these in a row and account gets flagged for value betting.