Duel.com -- The first casino with 0% house edge games

[Monarch-]

There was a user who informed me that the 0% house edge merely applies to the casino's games and that it is limited up to an amount of total bets. The house edge starts to run after the limit.

Because of that, "The first casino with 0% house edge games" is sort of misleading, no? Although it's good that they give this sort of "welcome offer" to new players, I believe it's better for the service to make everything clear and obvious.

It's pretty damn generous, the vast majority of users never reach these limits. Currently you can bet up to $50k per day before having to pay 0.1% HE per bet, and additional scaling HE is applied on very big bets only.

Truly, the goal is to offer 0% edge games at the largest scale possible. However, we had to set these precautions in order to avoid what I call the Eddie attackTM. In essence, even with a bankroll of hundreds of millions, we could still get cleaned from the variance if we allow unlimited action.

In a nutshell -- For vast majority of users, they can play with 0% HE and never reach the limits. For the smaller portion of highrollers, they'll be paying a HE that is still far far lower than whatever the competition offers.


As for the third party provider games -- We already offer the lowest HE due to our extremely generous rakeback. However due to the huge provider fees, going anywhere near zero edge would be impossible. People still want to play on these known brands, so it's a nobrainer for us to still offer these games (plus this is pretty much the main source of profit for us.)
I'm not a big fan of the giga high fee providers though, hence why we just released our own 0% HE slot, and are going to keep releasing more slots soon.

[john_egbert]

There was a user who informed me that the 0% house edge merely applies to the casino's games and that it is limited up to an amount of total bets. The house edge starts to run after the limit.

Because of that, "The first casino with 0% house edge games" is sort of misleading, no? Although it's good that they give this sort of "welcome offer" to new players, I believe it's better for the service to make everything clear and obvious.

It's pretty damn generous, the vast majority of users never reach these limits. Currently you can bet up to $50k per day before having to pay 0.1% HE per bet, and additional scaling HE is applied on very big bets only.

Truly, the goal is to offer 0% edge games at the largest scale possible. However, we had to set these precautions in order to avoid what I call the Eddie attackTM. In essence, even with a bankroll of hundreds of millions, we could still get cleaned from the variance if we allow unlimited action.

In a nutshell -- For vast majority of users, they can play with 0% HE and never reach the limits. For the smaller portion of highrollers, they'll be paying a HE that is still far far lower than whatever the competition offers.


As for the third party provider games -- We already offer the lowest HE due to our extremely generous rakeback. However due to the huge provider fees, going anywhere near zero edge would be impossible. People still want to play on these known brands, so it's a nobrainer for us to still offer these games (plus this is pretty much the main source of profit for us.)
I'm not a big fan of the giga high fee providers though, hence why we just released our own 0% HE slot, and are going to keep releasing more slots soon.

thanks for the bigger explanation of it!

it's truly the case and I don't know that much peeps that gamba away 50 grands in bets.. daily.

[Monarch-]

Live now:

Duel's First Original Slot — Provably Fair & 100% RTP

Slots are by far the most popular game on crypto casinos. But they've always been a black box. Trust the providers because of their RNG "licenses" (which mean nothing), and pray that the company is benevolent enough to not rig you. Provably fair has been the standard for crypto casino originals for over 10 years now. Why hasn't that standard been expanded to slots?

Some feeble attempts have been made in the past, usually with flawed provably fair systems, withdrawal restrictions, and other gotchas. But none that actually worked properly, and certainly never with 100% RTP.

The new standard Duel set in the industry last year that you know and love — rock-solid provable fairness, the best possible odds in the industry, and instant, unlimited withdrawals — has finally come to slots. Introducing the first Duel original slot (of many), and the world's first ever provably fair 100% RTP slot: Groomer's Van. Exclusively on Duel.

https://duel.com/casino/provably-fair/groomers-van

Monarch, you forgot to add that your casino has a license (which means nothing).

Should any player have any problems with your plattform and be truthfully in his rights there is no way to enforce it.

I will make sure that any or all marketing will reflect this, just like your idiot legal team clayton can‘t even form a proper response to your „licensor“. You can‘t properly shittalk other providers without keeping your casino on the good side.

Could you provide, for me ofcourse and for any other player that in the future will have any problems with your plattform a proper communication channel which someone actually replies?

I guess not.

Dearest sir,

Yes, we all know that licenses are worth less than toilet paper.

Best regards.

Thanks for the answer, didn't except that after you blocked me on Discord for a simple question.

So how does a player like me or any other of the 1-5% which probably have problems with your platform take any action to fulfill their rights? None?

I guess changing the industry also means changing the way how easy ignoring simple complaints gets.

I still expect a formal answer or any kind of direct communication to my formal notice, since you now also say you have a worthless license what does that make your casino? Illegal?

Elaborate please

I mean you can ignore all you want because obviously time is on your side right now but as soon as the right authorities get involved, I can't reverse anything, especially the money-laundering accusations and the seizure of the illicit gained swiss-player-funds.
See ESBK ruling on seizures of said funds.

Just answer me directly and privately, you literally have every kind of contact info from me you need. If you need the contact information from my lawyer I'll happily give it to you. I'm ready to delete everything like I said I just want to end this trap your casino put me in.

Once again, I kindly ask you to answer me instead of the continous ignoring. I have time of my life to further continue to do what I do now and I'm sure sooner or later I'll get on your nerves and you'll answer me anyways.

Don't know what your problem is, but the live support team is precisely there for the purpose of sorting people's problems.

If for whatever reason they didn't handle it appropriately (highly doubt it), summarize your problem to me simply and I'll tell you what's up.

Alright, since you either don't know what's going on, or your "competent" legal or support team never properly informed you, here's the overview:

I am legally pursuing your company for damages done to me.

I also provided enough proof, not only for you but for everyone else reading this, that your platform has serious gaps in its systems and procedures, gaps that can and likely will affect other users in similar situations in the future.

I tried multiple times to get direct contact, through support, through email, and here on Bitcointalk. Either I get no answer at all, I get told "I'm not a lawyer", or I get the usual "Our Legal Team will give you an answer soon." 

Support Members I remember talking to which told me exactly this was firstly Radke and Zen Chicken (I only give this to you for obvious reasons)

Well, your legal team, or better said "Clayton", did not reply to me, and did not reply to my lawyer either. Instead, he replied to your licensor, which makes absolutely no sense, especially after your own statement: "Yes, we all know that licenses are worth less than toilet paper."



So in other words, your legal team chose to answer a party you yourself describe as worthless, instead of answering the actual person affected(me) or his legal representative(my lawyer).


That alone already tells me everything about how seriously this matter is being handled internally. I'm actually surprised that you are even answering me as up until know there was nothing than either shittalking or avoiding an answer or proper escalation by YOUR support members.


I honestly don't know why that answer to your licensor was made in the first place. Anjouan is a complete shitshow and everybody knows it. That is probably exactly why you chose to license your casino there instead of under a slightly stricter jurisdiction like Curaçao, Malta, or anywhere else that would require a bit more substance behind the scenes.

Because this way, whenever a legal dispute happens, you can just drag things out, send irrelevant answers, hide behind meaningless structures, and hope the affected party eventually gives up so you can continue operating as usual.

Well, in my case, that won't happen.


I will not stop until I get a final answer from you. Since you run the business, I assume your word would actually mean something and could finally bring this to an end. That is why I am asking you, once again, to contact me privately instead of continuing this circus here in public. But if you want this to continue here, then fine, we can do that too.


What really fucks me up most is that your answer to your licensor directly incriminates your business because it contains statements that are simply false.


"Clayton" said the following:

4. AML and KYC Compliance
We confirm that Mr. Doko was subject to our standard KYC and AML procedures upon registration. The following information was collected and verified in accordance with our compliance framework: full name, date of birth, residential address, and email address.

All cryptocurrency transactions associated with Mr. Doko's accounts were screened through our transaction monitoring provider. No alerts were triggered.
A review of the deposit pattern indicates that funds originated from regulated cryptocurrency exchanges, presenting no elevated AML risk indicators.

Please read that carefully and actually think it through.

Do you seriously believe this is an answer that should come from a legal team, representing a NO KYC CASINO??? bruh...

Because from my perspective this is not a serious legal response at all. It is just straight-up bullshitting, and worse, it is a statement that can be damaging against your business, especially with the proof already given in the other post.


That is exactly why I am still here asking for direct contact with you.

All I want is a direct and fair conversation with you personally.

You already have my contact information. If you prefer another communication channel, that is fine too. I am open to that.

I just want to close this chapter privately and properly, delete my posts, and let you continue trying to "change the game" in this industry without me having to keep publicizing matters that are damaging for both sides.

I couldn't give less fucks about what anyone thinks about your casino or me as a person. I have rights which I will pursue if needed to do so, given the fact that your are somewhat engaging with my posts I guess there is hope that this can be properly handled, finalized and even be good for your business.

I hope to hear from you, if not I guess I just have to continue what I do now and escalate legally to the available options.

i ain't reading all that. im happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.

If you'd like me to give an actual tangible response to your problem, please summarize it in a nutshell.

[mikel_012]

Dear Sir Monarch

Please contact me via DM or over anything where I can talk directly to you.

Is that better?

Why don't you save Monarch time and just say what exactly is wrong in few words?

"Monarch my account was banned because XXXX but this should not happen because YYYY"

[Monarch-]

Dear Sir Monarch

Please contact me via DM or over anything where I can talk directly to you.

Is that better?

Why don't you save Monarch time and just say what exactly is wrong in few words?

"Monarch my account was banned because XXXX but this should not happen because YYYY"

With all respect, read my post on Page 17 and tell me how the fuck I’m supposed to compress that into two sentences without turning it into complete nonsense?

If you actually went through it, you’d realize this isn’t about a delayed withdrawal or some minor support issue. This is a structured case with multiple layers, legal, regulatory and operational, all tied together.

Either way, I'm waiting for an answer from him personally --- if it's really him, given the writing style it's kinda obvious. I'd rather have him contact me privately where we can talk this shit out instead of putting unnecessary exposure to both of us.

If it's a real issue, I'm sure you can summarize it simply.

In either case, i think it's time for you to go to the shower, sleep and work tomorrow. I refuse to elaborate.

[melinoe]

Dear Sir Monarch

Please contact me via DM or over anything where I can talk directly to you.

Is that better?

Why don't you save Monarch time and just say what exactly is wrong in few words?

"Monarch my account was banned because XXXX but this should not happen because YYYY"

Or ask the LLM to do the same. I saw the post, and maybe I will go through it, but oh boy is it a lot..

[Wind_FURY]

There was a user who informed me that the 0% house edge merely applies to the casino's games and that it is limited up to an amount of total bets. The house edge starts to run after the limit.

Because of that, "The first casino with 0% house edge games" is sort of misleading, no? Although it's good that they give this sort of "welcome offer" to new players, I believe it's better for the service to make everything clear and obvious.

How is that misleading?

It would be misleading if it said "The first casino where all games are 0% HE" or stuff like that. In addition, as mentioned in the thread, the threshold for the HE not to be 0% is a daily limit of $50,000, after which the HE becomes 0.10%.

Because "The first casino with 0% house edge games" sounds like a statement that's true, but it's not actually true because - Read the fine print.

I'm not saying OP is a scammer or anything of that context. I'm only saying that the statement is misleading because I myself thought there actually was 0% house edge until another user actually read the fine print and told me.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mikel_012]

There was a user who informed me that the 0% house edge merely applies to the casino's games and that it is limited up to an amount of total bets. The house edge starts to run after the limit.

Because of that, "The first casino with 0% house edge games" is sort of misleading, no? Although it's good that they give this sort of "welcome offer" to new players, I believe it's better for the service to make everything clear and obvious.

How is that misleading?

It would be misleading if it said "The first casino where all games are 0% HE" or stuff like that. In addition, as mentioned in the thread, the threshold for the HE not to be 0% is a daily limit of $50,000, after which the HE becomes 0.10%.

Because "The first casino with 0% house edge games" sounds like a statement that's true, but it's not actually true because - Read the fine print.

I'm not saying OP is a scammer or anything of that context. I'm only saying that the statement is misleading because I myself thought there actually was 0% house edge until another user actually read the fine print and told me.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If they used the title "The first casino with unlimited 0% house edge games" then you would be right

There is nothing false about "the first casino with 0% house edge games". The casino DOES HAVE 0% house edge games. So this is a true statement

You can join today and bet $1k $10k $30k with 0% house edge

[melinoe]

Because "The first casino with 0% house edge games" sounds like a statement that's true, but it's not actually true because - Read the fine print.

I'm not saying OP is a scammer or anything of that context. I'm only saying that the statement is misleading because I myself thought there actually was 0% house edge until another user actually read the fine print and told me.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Marketing technique that never gets old

 Not the worst thing I saw with such "clickbait" headers, but, yeah. It catches your attention and makes you to dig / try it yourself.

[leea-1334]

Took a look at the 0% house edge slots and looks neat,,, have not yet made any time to deposit, but I might do so at some point for the sake of trying things out. Never played this before, curious if volatility is affected greatly.

And,,, I know there are other issues going on but I know very little about them so no comment from me

[Wind_FURY]

There was a user who informed me that the 0% house edge merely applies to the casino's games and that it is limited up to an amount of total bets. The house edge starts to run after the limit.

Because of that, "The first casino with 0% house edge games" is sort of misleading, no? Although it's good that they give this sort of "welcome offer" to new players, I believe it's better for the service to make everything clear and obvious.

How is that misleading?

It would be misleading if it said "The first casino where all games are 0% HE" or stuff like that. In addition, as mentioned in the thread, the threshold for the HE not to be 0% is a daily limit of $50,000, after which the HE becomes 0.10%.

Because "The first casino with 0% house edge games" sounds like a statement that's true, but it's not actually true because - Read the fine print.

I'm not saying OP is a scammer or anything of that context. I'm only saying that the statement is misleading because I myself thought there actually was 0% house edge until another user actually read the fine print and told me.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If they used the title "The first casino with unlimited 0% house edge games" then you would be right

 

Haha, you're obviously nitpicking.

"The first casino with 0% house edge games" does sound it's "limited", no? But you need to read the fine print.

There is nothing false about "the first casino with 0% house edge games". The casino DOES HAVE 0% house edge games. So this is a true statement

You can join today and bet $1k $10k $30k with 0% house edge

I'm not saying they're scamming people. I was merely talking about my own experience in that it made me believe that they have unlimited 0% house edge in all of their games until another user said it wasn't.

  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[panjul07]

It is interesting to see the argument about the claim of "the first casino with 0% house edge", however if we do search in this gambling board with the clue "0% house edge" there was a dice site which was launched in 2014 which also claim to have 0% house edge.
If we talk about "promotional period" there is also older dice site that provide 0% house edge in specific event.
Here in duel, the 0% house edge is limited to the first $50k wager only for every 24 hours, can I say that the 0% house edge is a regular daily promotion?
Anyway, any site can claim anything as they wish like "the first", "the best", "the only" or something else.

[Wind_FURY]

It is interesting to see the argument about the claim of "the first casino with 0% house edge", however if we do search in this gambling board with the clue "0% house edge" there was a dice site which was launched in 2014 which also claim to have 0% house edge.

If we talk about "promotional period" there is also older dice site that provide 0% house edge in specific event.
Here in duel, the 0% house edge is limited to the first $50k wager only for every 24 hours, can I say that the 0% house edge is a regular daily promotion?

Anyway, any site can claim anything as they wish like "the first", "the best", "the only" or something else.

You could definitely say that, BUT obviously read the fine print because "0% house edge" is for a limited amount of wagers, AND it's for a limited selection of games.

[Unsoldier]

It is interesting to see the argument about the claim of "the first casino with 0% house edge", however if we do search in this gambling board with the clue "0% house edge" there was a dice site which was launched in 2014 which also claim to have 0% house edge.
If we talk about "promotional period" there is also older dice site that provide 0% house edge in specific event.
Here in duel, the 0% house edge is limited to the first $50k wager only for every 24 hours, can I say that the 0% house edge is a regular daily promotion?
Anyway, any site can claim anything as they wish like "the first", "the best", "the only" or something else.

I don't know what the argument is about, but in my view, a 0% house edge simply cannot exist. How would the casino stay in business if it didn't have an advantage? I think a casino can only have a 0% edge in player-versus-player games. However, even then, the casino will still charge some kind of commission or rake to organize those games.

[Dollartree]

I don't know what the argument is about, but in my view, a 0% house edge simply cannot exist. How would the casino stay in business if it didn't have an advantage? I think a casino can only have a 0% edge in player-versus-player games. However, even then, the casino will still charge some kind of commission or rake to organize those games.

This is what makes Duel so special.  0% edge exists, and it's VERY real.  I've explained it earlier in the thread, but all of the house games (excluding beef) have 0% edge up to 50k wagering per day.   Obviously, if there were no limit on the 0% edge, it could get very unprofitable very quickly.

The profits come from the slots though.  Even with 0% edge originals, gamblers still want to play all the popular slots.  Duel offers these, but cuts the house edge of all the provider slots in half.  After each spin, half of the expected house edge is given back to the player in instant rakeback.  If someone wagers $100 on a 4% edge game, they instantly get back $2 and $2 would be the expected profit for the casino.  But Duel didn't stop there..  If you were referred by an affiliate, 70% of that remaining $2 is given to the person who referred you ($1.40).  The expected profit for Duel then is $0.60.

Most people usually ask, "Why though?"

Why not?  Why not build the fairest and most transparent casino on Earth?  Let gamblers gamble safely and with the best odds.  That's the entire purpose of Duel.  It sounds crazy, but sometimes it's not all about the profits and figuring out how to extract every penny from a customer.

[Haunebu]

Most people usually ask, "Why though?"

Why not?  Why not build the fairest and most transparent casino on Earth?  Let gamblers gamble safely and with the best odds.  That's the entire purpose of Duel.  It sounds crazy, but sometimes it's not all about the profits and figuring out how to extract every penny from a customer.

Exaggeration much! Their whole 0% house edge promo on in house games is fair and trustworthy for sure, but they are still a business who do want to extract every penny from a customer thanks to the daily cap as well as maximum bet amount.

Furthermore, there have been a lot of legit complaints against them recently implying that they are definitely not as fair and transparent as you think. Also, they associate themselves with someone like Andrew Tate. Think!

[Dollartree]

Exaggeration much! Their whole 0% house edge promo on in house games is fair and trustworthy for sure, but they are still a business who do want to extract every penny from a customer thanks to the daily cap as well as maximum bet amount.

Furthermore, there have been a lot of legit complaints against them recently implying that they are definitely not as fair and transparent as you think. Also, they associate themselves with someone like Andrew Tate. Think!

It's still a business; it has operating costs and needs to make money.  Employees, provider fees, etc.  Most players won't hit the daily cap or maximum bet amount.  Sure, it would be nice if Duel could be everyone's personal ATM, but that's just not feasible.

As for complaints, you have to understand that most of these are from angry gamblers that lost.  I work in support there.  I get screamed at on a daily basis that provably fair isn't real, the slots are a scam, sports are rigged..  Gambling can make a person very emotional, and that's understandable.  But when real issues arise (and they do), they are handled extremely fairly.     

And Andrew Tate may not be your cup of tea, but everyone has different views.  To each his own. 

[AussieMat]

Dear Sir Monarch

Please contact me via DM or over anything where I can talk directly to you.

Is that better?

Why don't you save Monarch time and just say what exactly is wrong in few words?

"Monarch my account was banned because XXXX but this should not happen because YYYY"

With all respect, read my post on Page 17 and tell me how the fuck I’m supposed to compress that into two sentences without turning it into complete nonsense?

If you actually went through it, you’d realize this isn’t about a delayed withdrawal or some minor support issue. This is a structured case with multiple layers, legal, regulatory and operational, all tied together.

Either way, I'm waiting for an answer from him personally --- if it's really him, given the writing style it's kinda obvious. I'd rather have him contact me privately where we can talk this shit out instead of putting unnecessary exposure to both of us.

If it's a real issue, I'm sure you can summarize it simply.

In either case, i think it's time for you to go to the shower, sleep and work tomorrow. I refuse to elaborate.

I’ll summarize it for you: he’s suing you in civil court in Switzerland to get his losses back, and hopes that you do that for him instead of going through the lengthy legal proceedings. So if he had won, that would have been fine, but since he lost, he’s suing you. And who knows, he might be a winner but with 2 accounts, one that lost and the other that won, but is only asking for losses back on the account he lost on.

I did that for you only because I’m a fan:)

[Dollartree]

Dear Dollartree, while Duel might be one of the best casinos right now with the least expected profit for the casino in respect to other casinos, I fully disagree with the statement that you or anyone else at Duel handled complaints „extremely fairly“

Look at my case? I don‘t think anything other than Monatch himself replying and „offering“ an answer which to this day has not been answered btw, is „extremely fair“

Your whole Casino Team is a bunch of dudes under the age of 40 who operate illegally 99% of the time and can‘t provide a sufficient answer to allegations I‘ve made, because you can‘t simple as that.

One of the worst points is how I literally shown proof of yall contradicting yourselfs by saying something and not doing it. This is just a „trust me bro“ casino for now. Any real problem, be it operational or legal, is not handled correctly nor with the respect to the player which should be in first place.

The Day will come that this will shift cause without a player bases 100% trust, the casino will fail, be it by going negative or having too much public backlash.

Since Monarch hasn‘t responded since I kindly request, again duh, to answer 1. my formal notice, 2. the allegations, and 3. why yall keep saying something and contradicting with your actions.

I mean yall can read hopefully and conclude yourself how these guys operate, like I said, may be the fairest casino out there right now but it won‘t take long until someone else comes in who also respects the other things I mentioned and will obliterate you in no time.

Like I said, you say „extremely fair“ yet have not provided any kind of answer to the allegations let alone the notice. I guess your not a lawyer but yeah, You can bombard X and pay off as many people as you like but having someone from the „legal“ Team gamble at the very casino he is in contract with is unacceptable.

For anyone reading do some research and you‘ll know what I‘m talking about

Hey man, I'll answer a few of your questions here.

1.  Your formal notice was answered.  I read that notice; it was sent to you.  I confirmed that it was sent to you.
2.  All of your allegations were answered in your legal request.
3.  I have told you since you have started posting that this is a legal matter and can't be handled in a public forum (obviously)

TBH I'm not sure what you are looking for here.  Legal requests are different than asking a question in a forum.  I would love nothing more than to answer your request (TRULY), but lawyers do not allow legal arguments to be settled in a public forum.

You are more than welcome to post our legal reply in this forum.

[Monarch-]

Most people usually ask, "Why though?"

Why not?  Why not build the fairest and most transparent casino on Earth?  Let gamblers gamble safely and with the best odds.  That's the entire purpose of Duel.  It sounds crazy, but sometimes it's not all about the profits and figuring out how to extract every penny from a customer.

Exaggeration much! Their whole 0% house edge promo on in house games is fair and trustworthy for sure, but they are still a business who do want to extract every penny from a customer thanks to the daily cap as well as maximum bet amount.

Furthermore, there have been a lot of legit complaints against them recently implying that they are definitely not as fair and transparent as you think. Also, they associate themselves with someone like Andrew Tate. Think!

Simply untrue. The thing that makes Duel fundamentally different than other casinos is that it has not been made for the purpose of squeezing every penny out of the customers. If you study our strategy even slightly, you'll find this to be very true. I do this primarily out of the love for the game, and because I can. I'm fucking around and finding out. In many ways, Duel non-ironically is closer to a charity than a casino.

Btw the argument regarding having the 50k cap for the purpose of squeezing money from the users is simply not true -- The amount of money we make from the 0.1% edge is virtually non-existent, there's far more profit coming in from the slots. There's a cap on the 0% edge activity simply for the purpose of throttling the volume and protecting ourselves from what I call the Eddie attackTM, where large enough whales could simply bankroll us with enough variance.

A fun fact is, even if you had a $1b bankroll and you offered 0% edge gambling with no limits, our friend Eddie could easily come and bankrupt the house. It's just a matter of time.

As for the association with Andrew Tate -- I sincerely apologize if we raised your cortisol levels or if you accidentally choked on your soy milk. There is no crying in a casino.