The Official Mastercoin Foundation, Master Protocol & Mastercoin Thread

[Chang Hum]

I think it's time to give up, wish the mastercoin and maidsafe guys would face some sort of criminal charges over this but I think people are so idiotic they can't see whats gone on even when it's spelt out for them.

Was the same with Pirate and Patric Harnet by the way (search the thread and watch the people calling out a transparent scam get attacked). Only difference in those days (bit over a year long long ago) there were more so called trolls that bothered to help people getting scammed.

It's actually not the scam that pisses me off it's the realization of how stupid the general population here is that gets me.

Maidsafe’s IPO=“They” cash out a serious volume of Mastercoin

Even though English is not your first language, you understand more clearly than most people here

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[peled1986]

I think it's time to give up, wish the mastercoin and maidsafe guys would face some sort of criminal charges over this but I think people are so idiotic they can't see whats gone on even when it's spelt out for them.

Was the same with Pirate and Patric Harnet by the way (search the thread and watch the people calling out a transparent scam get attacked). Only difference in those days (bit over a year long long ago) there were more so called trolls that bothered to help people getting scammed.

It's actually not the scam that pisses me off it's the realization of how stupid the general population here is that gets me.

Maidsafe’s IPO=“They” cash out a serious volume of Mastercoin

Even though English is not your first language, you understand more clearly than most people here

Chang Hum - more people than you think understand and agree with a lot of what you are saying. Keep up the good work.

(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Oo8bYKRarkG7S0YUJgP_-8Izkks9EZ1j_0bQ8dz6ahM/edit - some of the important question in the retrospective are based on information you disclosed).

[Chang Hum]

Thanks peled1986

[Chang Hum]

Why will nobody give a firm answer on conversion rate of MSC for maidsafe ?

But only on BTC to maidsafe ?

When all BTC need to be converted ( even if in the background. )

I hold BTC and MSC and I have no idea which would be best to use to buy in to this with.

We have been talking with all groups involved here about this. It looks like we will have a rate of 0.2 fixed for the duration. This is higher than the 0.08 but as MSC will now be useful we think the rise there will be substantial.  So it would appear that dumping MSC initially gets a better deal, but it may increase in value very quickly and seem like a worse deal later on. If I held MSC and BTC I would split this if I thought MSC had a future, otherwise take advantage early on.  It will be set in stone though for the duration of the sale and likely at 0.2 MSC per BTC which is a much better rate than current.

We are not trying to hide anything, but want to make sure we are covering all bases and as fair as possible to the community MSC and BTC.
[typo 0.8 -> 0.08]

Noticed a factual error about Mastercoin prices, from Davids recollection of prices in his blog (.1) and what he writes here (I Remember when this was posted as I found it an incredibly bizarre thing to announce and started trading immediately at 0.08!! Price was originally 0.06 a few days before (Nick Lambert bizarrely told me by private email his team were moving the market to 0.08). I don't often use the word bizarre but sums the actions of this firm up quite a lot.

[Chang Hum]

I am confused as to how maid safe coin think they will be able to sell 8 million dollars worth of mastercoin, based on current mastercoin volume on exchanges, in fact JR willet selling just 1 million dollars of mastercoin, caused a price drop from 0.25 all the way down to where it is now, let alone 8 million dollars,

The vast majority of the funding will be via bitcoin. MSC is a vehicle to allow this to be recorded on the blockchain etc. All of the people we know are using BTC to buy MSAFE. There are MSC holders who may purchase direct, but we do not see anyone converting BTC->MSC for this. We will however be doing that in the background for people with BTC. We are working with the Master Protocol guys as well as BitAngels to do this part. Our friends and staff are using BTC to buy MaidSafeCoins (including an excited me) and nobody needs to even know what MSC is. 

As this is possibly the first use of MSC in such a scheme we do have some manual process in place for parts of the sale. These will be automated over time. I hope this crowd sale increases MSC value as it shows a good use for this (the intended use) as well as kickstarting this project.

So if you use Master Protocol for your crowd sale or asset sale you can do so in BTC not only MSC. This will all become much simpler in future though. It is a pretty good model as it fixes in the security of transfers etc.
 

Cool how are you blocking mastercoin dumping?

We are not blocking MSC dumping, but do not expect it to happen. It may, but if the sale is successful we would hope that MSC would increase in liquidity as it's used more. I don't think any of the Master guys would want to see their coins disappear really. It would wreck that project and some associated groups. So I have faith and we do have support. There is a large number of BTC holders who are certainly in with BTC and that is fantastic. It could be a worry, but I feel we all need some faith at times. IF MSC were dumped and the price went up it may do little harm. If the sale is successful (which looks promising) then more projects use this type of system the whole eco system improves.

Feels a little like BTC early days in many ways and I suppose it is. The project will continue and supporters will get rewarded for sure. It would take a disaster to happen to disturb that I think. Then again we are all in this together and we all need to show faith and support for each other. I feel comfortable but not unaware of risk.

Was just taking the piss with this question really, as I'd already upset him with talk of Mastercoin dumping on his Google Dev thread less than an hour before!

[Chang Hum]

I know Davids slippery so wanted to quote a couple of things before he deletes, wouldn't put it past the mods on this thread to still go through and delete these posts and the originals though

[dexX7]

Hey Chang Hum, I see you put a lot of effort in pushing this thread. May I ask: what would you do different in the future?

[Chang Hum]

Hey Chang Hum, I see you put a lot of effort in pushing this thread. May I ask: what would you do different in the future?

Are you kidding?

The big issue with David is obviously not to sell a 1 third stake in something for $3 million and then to give away a $6 million stake for free.

The issues with mastercoin are they've monetized their system in an extraordinary way to achieve the above ^. The argument about future clearly doesn't exist as Mastercoin is so floored it would be laughable if everyone here didn't take it so seriously.

Dex do you accept a con has been played out here to enrich Mastercoin holders?

[Chang Hum]

What Mastercoins done is outrageous but what Davids done is outrageous, rather than create a coin he's just created a buzz around creating a coin and launched it on a system he clearly has absolutely 0 understanding of. He has absolutlely no understanding of cryptocurrencys in general.

He's taken $3million dollars for salaries and to buy his office and left a useless free to create asset for stupid people to bid on between each other!!??

It's worse than a ponzi scheme it's a ponzi scheme with all the original first round money completely pulled out of it and used to buy a building!

[dexX7]

Of course I don't want to support a con and the time I spent with those people (email, forum, etc.) implied quite the contrary.

Just to be clear: the main issue you see is a potentially unfair distribution between BTC and MSC holders, right? Sorry to repeat everything, I've read all your other posts earlier, but want to address this isolated.

There is currently an interesting discussion going on on the MSC dev mailing list related to accepting BTC directly in crowdsales:

https://groups.google.com/a/mastercoin.org/forum/#!topic/dev/qHlkPvU6o5g

What you cannot simply ignore: the whole party is financed by people who now hold MSC. As J.R. phrased it: "We have a social contract to shape the Master Protocol in a way that benefits MSC holder (increase price of MSC long term)."

Now you can call what happend with Maid Safe unfair, but I think finding a fair balance is possible and the retrospective clearly shows this is the intention of everyone involved.

Edit: I underlined "long term", because I think we are in consensus that a quick cash grab or pump 'n dump would do much more harm than good.

[Chang Hum]

Of course I don't want to support a con and the time I spent with those people (email, forum, etc.) implied quite the contrary.

Just to be clear: the main issue you see is a potentially unfair distribution between BTC and MSC holders, right? Sorry to repeat everything, I've read all your other posts earlier, but want to address this isolated.

I've already started writing quite a lengthy reply, the problem is there's two parts to this were Maidsafe and Mastercoin both shoulder responsibility. I see massive issues that would be criminal in any regulated market (and may well be here) in the actions of both parties.

Most of your post implies we're talking about Mastercoins side of the blame but you bring up the issue of unfair distribution which is clearly an issue were Maidsafe is responsible to it's investors and doesn't really relate to any of the accusations I'm making towards Mastercoin.

I don't want to go round in circles with this I think the best way for me to clear up my thoughts on were blame lies with both sides,is to document my thoughts and create a scam accusation against Mastercoin and Maidsafe individually. I think it's an important enough issue to have one last solid crack at trying to articulate clearly but I'm sick of being in such a tiny vocal minority trying to scam bust this one so that will have to do from me!

I'll post a link here when I'm done!

[dexX7]

Yes, I focus on the Mastercoin side of things and that's what this thread is about, but some things go probably hand in hand.

On May, 5th is part 2 of the retrospective. Please go ahead with your report and articulate your thoughts, so this may be brought on the table.

[Chang Hum]

I don't know if I can be fudged. Reading that google group is mind blowing to me it's just a whole other world of stupid I can't even begin to get my head around. One things for sure they haven't learnt a thing. I think like pirate and patrick harnett there's nothing I can do to put the breaks on this and I should stand aside and let it runs it course. Don't all cash out at once as none of the original $3m exists and what little does on fresh money coming in Mastercoiners have a claim to!

Edit: BTW would just like to add I love David Irvines (now a majority share holder of pointless Mastercoin) amazing idea in your google group post of charging 1.25 per Mastercoin relative to Bitcoin (or whatever currency) instead of inflating to 0.2 as worked so well last time, really really flipping smart bloke that David and a really flipping smart bunch of people working with him and following him. Sorry I realize I've been wrong and trolling all along after reading these guys put so much intellectual thought into a business discussion. Watch this space I think this amazing group of people could change the world.  

[yayayo]

Sorry for interrupting the discussion with an unrelated question regarding the masterchain.info-wallet (I didn't know where else to post; couldn't register at mastercointalk because never received the confirmation e-mail):

I've tried to use the masterchain.info-wallet for the first time to sell 1.0 MSC on the distributed exchange. However I do not succeed with this task, because I'm unable to verify my sender address which is needed to create a sell offer. When I click "verify" after entering my seller address (which is exactly the one on which I've received the MSC earlier) I always get the following error "no pubkey on blockchain. use wallet or supply Public Key from brainwallet.org".

The same problem occurs when trying to send MSC.

What am I supposed to do to get this working? What kind of public key is needed?

Thank you for any help you can offer.


ya.ya.yo!

[RawDog]

Sorry for interrupting the discussion with an unrelated question regarding the masterchain.info-wallet (I didn't know where else to post; couldn't register at mastercointalk because never received the confirmation e-mail):

Mastercoin people don't want a community to develop.  They've tried very hard to make their forum impossible to use and post in. They do everything possible to prevent others from talking about MSC.  They even locked most threads on bitcointalk.  They just don't want people to participate.  

The confirmation e-mail problem has been going on for months.  Don't expect to get any confirmation - they don't care what you have to say.

[RawDog]

Edit: BTW would just like to add I love David Irvines (now a majority share holder of pointless Mastercoin) amazing idea in your google group post of charging 1.25 per Mastercoin relative to Bitcoin (or whatever currency) instead of inflating to 0.2 as worked so well last time, really really flipping smart bloke that David and a really flipping smart bunch of people working with him and following him. Sorry I realize I've been wrong and trolling all along after reading these guys put so much intellectual thought into a business discussion. Watch this space I think this amazing group of people could change the world.  



YOU FUCKING GROUP OF UNBELIEVABLY IDIOTIC CUNTS YOU DESERVE TO LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!

Going to keep slashing shit around here until someone tries to pay you off?  You fucked up ChungHungLow.  Bit deal.  Hang tight.  MasterProtocol is going to do another Crowdsale soon with some minor mods.  You'll see then how good things are. 

Calling everyone 'idiotic cunts' isn't going to make your crypto holding go up.  Move on to the next deal.

[niner]

Sorry for interrupting the discussion with an unrelated question regarding the masterchain.info-wallet (I didn't know where else to post; couldn't register at mastercointalk because never received the confirmation e-mail):

I've tried to use the masterchain.info-wallet for the first time to sell 1.0 MSC on the distributed exchange. However I do not succeed with this task, because I'm unable to verify my sender address which is needed to create a sell offer. When I click "verify" after entering my seller address (which is exactly the one on which I've received the MSC earlier) I always get the following error "no pubkey on blockchain. use wallet or supply Public Key from brainwallet.org".

The same problem occurs when trying to send MSC.

What am I supposed to do to get this working? What kind of public key is needed?

Thank you for any help you can offer.


ya.ya.yo!

"There have been reports on problems with addresses without public key on the blockchain - If you add the address to an empty wallet using the private key option, they should be resolved."

... above quote from Grazcoin post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583370.0 under "Known issues:"

[prophetx]

Sorry for interrupting the discussion with an unrelated question regarding the masterchain.info-wallet (I didn't know where else to post; couldn't register at mastercointalk because never received the confirmation e-mail):

Mastercoin people don't want a community to develop.  They've tried very hard to make their forum impossible to use and post in. They do everything possible to prevent others from talking about MSC.  They even locked most threads on bitcointalk.  They just don't want people to participate.  

The confirmation e-mail problem has been going on for months.  Don't expect to get any confirmation - they don't care what you have to say.

I'll check with Adam and Aric why this wasn't fixed already, should have been done a couple months ago.

Check your spam folder. 

[bones]

I read something somewhere about this exact problem.  I believe you just need to send BTC from that address so it is known.  I could be wrong, and I cant remember where I read it.

Good luck

Sorry for interrupting the discussion with an unrelated question regarding the masterchain.info-wallet (I didn't know where else to post; couldn't register at mastercointalk because never received the confirmation e-mail):

I've tried to use the masterchain.info-wallet for the first time to sell 1.0 MSC on the distributed exchange. However I do not succeed with this task, because I'm unable to verify my sender address which is needed to create a sell offer. When I click "verify" after entering my seller address (which is exactly the one on which I've received the MSC earlier) I always get the following error "no pubkey on blockchain. use wallet or supply Public Key from brainwallet.org".

The same problem occurs when trying to send MSC.

What am I supposed to do to get this working? What kind of public key is needed?

Thank you for any help you can offer.


ya.ya.yo!

[RawDog]

I'll check with Adam and Aric why this wasn't fixed already, should have been done a couple months ago.

Check your spam folder.  

Yeah, yeah.  Typical response: 'the problem is on your end'.  Dude, about 14,254 people had the same issue for months - now you want to blame me for not knowing how to use a spam folder.  Maybe the issue is on the server?  Did you consider that?  Duh!

Let's face it - the Mastercoin forum is totally mismanaged and as a result nobody will visit.  The posts are quickly stale and the conversations are totally dead.  New participants are blocked from joining - in the name of 'security'.  We wouldn't want any hackers to spread bad opinions - we need top security with e-mail background checks and high level encrypted passwords.  You've locked the thing down so tight - nobody will join.  Good one.