The Official Mastercoin Foundation, Master Protocol & Mastercoin Thread

[dexX7]

From the other thread:

... but definitely the 100-200 range for a set (min 3) of them is likely, but there is still a bit of work to be done as it's not so simple as I originally thought so I would rather not quote prices.

Basically you've got it exactly right. There is a bitcoin private key inside the device (NOT INTENDED TO HOLD FUNDS) and a public key which is given to the users. The user then encrypts their own secret with the public key, or public key+salt and then stores the encrypted data on the chip. To get decrypt the encrypted data, they break the container open, get the private key, regenerate the public key, optionally add their salt, and decrypt the encrypted data on the chip.

I still have a difficult time to understand it.

On the one hand you say the user needs to break to glass to get to the key, but at the same time you say the user stores data on the chip. Isn't this contradicting?

If it really looks as it looks on the shiny preview pictures the price is dirt cheap.

But what I really want: a device that holds a seed - which is not known by you, but defined by me - for a deterministic wallet (BIP 32). Bonus: device emmits public key to the seed, but doesn't emmit the seed. But I'd probably be already happy, if it's just a stupid RFID chip inside a shiny device which allows me to store and access something. In this case (without the need to break the glass to get the data), I'd use two: one to store the seed which is locked away and another one for "daily" use to generate new addresses.

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[crazy_rabbit]

From the other thread:

... but definitely the 100-200 range for a set (min 3) of them is likely, but there is still a bit of work to be done as it's not so simple as I originally thought so I would rather not quote prices.

Basically you've got it exactly right. There is a bitcoin private key inside the device (NOT INTENDED TO HOLD FUNDS) and a public key which is given to the users. The user then encrypts their own secret with the public key, or public key+salt and then stores the encrypted data on the chip. To get decrypt the encrypted data, they break the container open, get the private key, regenerate the public key, optionally add their salt, and decrypt the encrypted data on the chip.

I still have a difficult time to understand it.

On the one hand you say the user needs to break to glass to get to the key, but at the same time you say the user stores data on the chip. Isn't this contradicting?

If it really looks as it looks on the shiny preview pictures the price is dirt cheap.

But what I really want: a device that holds a seed - which is not known by you, but defined by me - for a deterministic wallet (BIP 32). Bonus: device emmits public key to the seed, but doesn't emmit the seed. But I'd probably be already happy, if it's just a stupid RFID chip inside a shiny device which allows me to store and access something. In this case (without the need to break the glass to get the data), I'd use two: one to store the seed which is locked away and another one for "daily" use to generate new addresses.

Well, I didn't want to hijack this thread, so I will keep this brief. It is a RFID chip inside a shiny device with another fixed code on the inside. You're free to use the chip as you want, but the idea is that you store your seed encrypted on the RFID chip using the hash of the password thats inside. The hash is destroyed in the process of storing data to the chip, so to decrypt the data on the RFID chip you must break the device open to rebuild the hash.

It's not intended as a day to day object, it's for long term storage of your coins, and for storing coins with individuals you might not 100% trust (bank vaults, lawyers, family). Etc...

[dexX7]

Since you mentioned this device in the context of a MSC crowdfund, I think this is no hijacking.

Your short explanation helped a lot, but:

The hash is destroyed in the process of storing data to the chip, so to decrypt the data on the RFID chip you must break the device open to rebuild the hash.

How does that work? I assume simply by overwriting the data.. and there is another chip which holds the original? I guess I can't have it both ways.. to define the original hash myself without telling you.

[prophetx]

I'm posting here as there still isn't really a very centralized "mastercointalk" location.

I'm looking to Crowdfund my new endevour:

Counterfiet Proof (nearly anyway) physical KeyVaults. For long term secure cold storage of bitcoin keys, mastercoin keys, onename.io/namecoin keys.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566626.msg6173252#msg6173252

And idea I was thinking about was to sell some portion of the company (or coupons exchangeable for company shares) probably 10-20%, via the Mastercoin Protocol a-la MaidSafe. The money I would raise, I would then put into building the company.

Any ideas I should be keeping in mind? Any suggestions?

well technically right now we don't fully support the releasing of equities.  what i mean by that is if your jurisdiction has specific requirements (for example, you need a list of your share holders, etc) the tokens are very rudimentary.

now of course no one can stop you from using the protocol to issue tokens, but just keep in mind that you might get into some paperwork issues and possible fines, if your company is not able to fill out whatever paperwork is out there.  i would also make it clear that you are not targeting US investors btw until we get all the pieces in place which i think will take another 6 -12 months.

another route which I think is interesting and possibly less of a headache from a paperwork persepective is using one of the BTC lending companies. I spoke to one at the conference.  Have them issue some token that represent some kind of loan for X indivisible units of the product, then the holders of the loan can trade those in for the product or you buy them back when you get orders.

shoot me an email and i can introduce you to some people on the investment side and brain storm on ways to structure this dom@mastercoin.org

[Bitoy]

And idea I was thinking about was to sell some portion of the company (or coupons exchangeable for company shares) probably 10-20%, via the Mastercoin Protocol a-la MaidSafe. The money I would raise, I would then put into building the company.

maybe like with Kickstarter, as a 'reward' for buying x amount of shares you can get one of these cool little dongle things
glad I didn't preorder a trezor!

+1. Use mastercoin fundraiser to create your own coin.    Then price your device per your coin.  Users have to send you the coins to get your cool device.

[StarenseN]

Any update about the project management itself? How could it be so poor, I'm very worried now. We lost almost any momentum and first entrance advantage. How was this possible.

And what about dacoinminster who was able to drop his job and to focus on mastercoin...?

[hill]

Any update about the project management itself? How could it be so poor, I'm very worried now. We lost almost any momentum and first entrance advantage. How was title possible.

And what about dacoinminster who was able to drop his job and to focus on mastercoin...?

Strongly suggest the MSC  team to add new exchange!

[dacoinminster]

I just spoke to 40 people in a room doing a Mastercoin hack-a-thon (http://tinyurl.com/mastercoinhack)

We've got multiple fronts of dev effort happening right now, on Omniwallet, on a new cross-platform desktop wallet, a cross-platform command-line client which will become the parsing engine for all implementations, and of course the spec.

Now, regarding MSC price:

Of course, we all hate to see MSC price taking a beating, but I am pretty sure I know why. One single person convinced a major MSC holder to pay them a large sum in MSC as an upfront payment for some promised work, despite my warnings that I was certain from previous experience that this person would immediately liquidate most, if not all of them. Sure enough, as soon as they got their hands on the MSC, it went straight to MasterXChange, and the price started dumping hard. Sigh . . .

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

Please keep in mind that MSC is volatile by design, and it can spike up just as violently

[ejinte]

I just spoke to 40 people in a room doing a Mastercoin hack-a-thon (http://tinyurl.com/mastercoinhack)

We've got multiple fronts of dev effort happening right now, on Omniwallet, on a new cross-platform desktop wallet, a cross-platform command-line client which will become the parsing engine for all implementations, and of course the spec.

Now, regarding MSC price:

Of course, we all hate to see MSC price taking a beating, but I am pretty sure I know why. One single person convinced a major MSC holder to pay them a large sum in MSC as an upfront payment for some promised work, despite my warnings that I was certain from previous experience that this person would immediately liquidate most, if not all of them. Sure enough, as soon as they got their hands on the MSC, it went straight to MasterXChange, and the price started dumping hard. Sigh . . .

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

Please keep in mind that MSC is volatile by design, and it can spike up just as violently

Would love to see some update on the blog once the hack-a-ton is over.

[mikewirth]

I just spoke to 40 people in a room doing a Mastercoin hack-a-thon (http://[Suspicious link removed]/mastercoinhack)

We've got multiple fronts of dev effort happening right now, on Omniwallet, on a new cross-platform desktop wallet, a cross-platform command-line client which will become the parsing engine for all implementations, and of course the spec.

Now, regarding MSC price:

Of course, we all hate to see MSC price taking a beating, but I am pretty sure I know why. One single person convinced a major MSC holder to pay them a large sum in MSC as an upfront payment for some promised work, despite my warnings that I was certain from previous experience that this person would immediately liquidate most, if not all of them. Sure enough, as soon as they got their hands on the MSC, it went straight to MasterXChange, and the price started dumping hard. Sigh . . .

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

Please keep in mind that MSC is volatile by design, and it can spike up just as violently

This is bullshit and you know it.  Now you have become part of the scam.  MSC was completely fucked by whoever did that price fix trick with MAID.  About $3 million went to big MSC holders - who then liquidated the MAID back to BTC.  That scam ruined both MSC and MAID.  You won't rebuild the trust.  Have all the hackathons you like, once the scammers get into the works, the project is dead.  Who pushed the hardest for the .2 fix?  That is the guy responsible for MSC demise ; not the guy who sold as you describe.

And what about dacoinminster who was able to drop his job and to focus on mastercoin...?

Nothing but total silence for so long.  The MSC project is over.  Dead.

[BTCHybrid]

I just spoke to 40 people in a room doing a Mastercoin hack-a-thon (http://[Suspicious link removed]/mastercoinhack)

We've got multiple fronts of dev effort happening right now, on Omniwallet, on a new cross-platform desktop wallet, a cross-platform command-line client which will become the parsing engine for all implementations, and of course the spec.

Now, regarding MSC price:

Of course, we all hate to see MSC price taking a beating, but I am pretty sure I know why. One single person convinced a major MSC holder to pay them a large sum in MSC as an upfront payment for some promised work, despite my warnings that I was certain from previous experience that this person would immediately liquidate most, if not all of them. Sure enough, as soon as they got their hands on the MSC, it went straight to MasterXChange, and the price started dumping hard. Sigh . . .

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

Please keep in mind that MSC is volatile by design, and it can spike up just as violently

Why would someone request payment in mastercoins if they were going to convert it to bitcoins immediately?

[dacoinminster]

Why would someone request payment in mastercoins if they were going to convert it to bitcoins immediately?

They knew the payer was a large MSC holder, and the payer (who is a generous, trusting soul) wanted to get the payee more invested in the MSC ecosystem while working on some private MSC projects. After my warning that the payee would almost certainly crash the market, they spoke and the payee said they would only sell ~10% on the open market, but I was dubious that this person who never had the next months rent would suddenly develop responsible money habits.

Sure enough, the entire sum went straight to MasterXChange. Bah.

I'm a little annoyed that this happened to be sure, but it doesn't affect our long-term prospects. Just an opportunity to get some cheap MSC, IMHO.

[RawDog]

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

The 'distributed exchange' has no (practical) UI and is horrible.  It is so unusable, that nobody uses it.  For user friendliness, MSC gets a clear 'F'.  This is why the project is dying.  Newcomers are VERY turned off in just a brief moment. 

[RawDog]

Why would someone request payment in mastercoins if they were going to convert it to bitcoins immediately?

They knew the payer was a large MSC holder, and the payer (who is a generous, trusting soul) wanted to get the payee more invested in the MSC ecosystem while working on some private MSC projects. After my warning that the payee would almost certainly crash the market, they spoke and the payee said they would only sell ~10% on the open market, but I was dubious that this person who never had the next months rent would suddenly develop responsible money habits.

Sure enough, the entire sum went straight to MasterXChange. Bah.

I'm a little annoyed that this happened to be sure, but it doesn't affect our long-term prospects. Just an opportunity to get some cheap MSC, IMHO.

It kind-of reminds me of the time when MSC was at .25 and you decided to sell and made a major announcement to that effect.  The market crashed almost exactly the same way.  After these crashes, interest and devs leave the project (Tachikoma).  There should have been some kind of 'lock out' agreement which prevented mass selling by insiders looking to crash the project momentum.  What a shame really.

[ejinte]

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

The 'distributed exchange' has no (practical) UI and is horrible.  It is so unusable, that nobody uses it.  For user friendliness, MSC gets a clear 'F'.  This is why the project is dying.  Newcomers are VERY turned off in just a brief moment. 

I think the distributed exchange will work much better between tokens created in Mastercoins and I hope the selling/buying in omniwallet will be easy.

[crazy_rabbit]

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

The 'distributed exchange' has no (practical) UI and is horrible.  It is so unusable, that nobody uses it.  For user friendliness, MSC gets a clear 'F'.  This is why the project is dying.  Newcomers are VERY turned off in just a brief moment. 

Newcomers are also likely to put their bitcoin into anonymous exchanges that disappear overnight with their life savings. There is no reason why mastercoin needs to be a mom-and-pop exchange of the future. What matters is that it's protocol based and distributed. There's no Karples to suck down your money in Starbucks lattes and leave the leftovers for bankruptcy courts to divy up.

In the future, when large institutions trade large sums digitally between each other, not having a middle man is an incredible advantage. With MSC you could trade a billion dollars with no one change to cheat or steal from either party. It's transparent, open, distributed. That's incredible. Who would put a billion dollars on Bitstamp for example? Great company, but THAT GREAT? with the Distributed exchange you don't have these worries. Maybe it's not super user friendly, but thats because it's truly secure. It will get easier in the future, but for now it's an incredibly powerful tool.

[mczarnek]

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

The 'distributed exchange' has no (practical) UI and is horrible.  It is so unusable, that nobody uses it.  For user friendliness, MSC gets a clear 'F'.  This is why the project is dying.  Newcomers are VERY turned off in just a brief moment. 

You should check out Nxt's UI... their asset exchange is very pretty.

[jeroenn13]

I'm convinced that as we demonstrate more uses for MSC (for instance, the distributed exchange between MSC and child tokens), we'll have more people enter on the buy side.

The 'distributed exchange' has no (practical) UI and is horrible.  It is so unusable, that nobody uses it.  For user friendliness, MSC gets a clear 'F'.  This is why the project is dying.  Newcomers are VERY turned off in just a brief moment. 

You should check out Nxt's UI... their asset exchange is very pretty.

Yes. And not using the bitcoin protocol.

[hmmmstrange]

Why would someone request payment in mastercoins if they were going to convert it to bitcoins immediately?

They knew the payer was a large MSC holder, and the payer (who is a generous, trusting soul) wanted to get the payee more invested in the MSC ecosystem while working on some private MSC projects. After my warning that the payee would almost certainly crash the market, they spoke and the payee said they would only sell ~10% on the open market, but I was dubious that this person who never had the next months rent would suddenly develop responsible money habits.

Sure enough, the entire sum went straight to MasterXChange. Bah.

I'm a little annoyed that this happened to be sure, but it doesn't affect our long-term prospects. Just an opportunity to get some cheap MSC, IMHO.

It kind-of reminds me of the time when MSC was at .25 and you decided to sell and made a major announcement to that effect.  The market crashed almost exactly the same way.  After these crashes, interest and devs leave the project (Tachikoma).  There should have been some kind of 'lock out' agreement which prevented mass selling by insiders looking to crash the project momentum.  What a shame really.

JR did have a self imposed lock out agreement that he would not sell below .75 but somehow the board members convinced him to "diversify" his holdings.

JR, you've been giving Jed advise this week?

[crazy_rabbit]

Why would someone request payment in mastercoins if they were going to convert it to bitcoins immediately?

They knew the payer was a large MSC holder, and the payer (who is a generous, trusting soul) wanted to get the payee more invested in the MSC ecosystem while working on some private MSC projects. After my warning that the payee would almost certainly crash the market, they spoke and the payee said they would only sell ~10% on the open market, but I was dubious that this person who never had the next months rent would suddenly develop responsible money habits.

Sure enough, the entire sum went straight to MasterXChange. Bah.

I'm a little annoyed that this happened to be sure, but it doesn't affect our long-term prospects. Just an opportunity to get some cheap MSC, IMHO.

It kind-of reminds me of the time when MSC was at .25 and you decided to sell and made a major announcement to that effect.  The market crashed almost exactly the same way.  After these crashes, interest and devs leave the project (Tachikoma).  There should have been some kind of 'lock out' agreement which prevented mass selling by insiders looking to crash the project momentum.  What a shame really.

JR did have a self imposed lock out agreement that he would not sell below .75 but somehow the board members convinced him to "diversify" his holdings.

JR, you've been giving Jed advise this week?

You know, in light of whats happening with Ripple, I think it would be a good time to make some rules/clarifications regarding JR's stash. I've said it before and I'll say it again- I'm totally happy with JR having a crap load of Mastercoins. Nothing makes me happier then a) him having incentive to keep working b) it being build on Bitcoin so thus not being a distraction. Maybe I've love to have more Mastercoins myself, but he did PAY for them with over 1K of BTC which would have had him riding pretty high in the real world had he not invested them. (Can he get them back out?)

That said, maybe just clarify for everyone your intentions for the future? So we don't have to deal with a Ripple-esque shit storm some point in the future?

thanks!