Can small investors actually make good profit with bitcoin ?

[Charcol]

yre better off investing in something less shifty & unpredictable than bitcoin at such a rate if ur looking for real profit, not a smart idea, try ur luck if u want but i wouldn't bet on it

It is true that the price of Bitcoin is uncertain in the short term. But considering this short-term uncertainty, calling long-term investments a test of luck is a completely different matter. If you want to make a quick profit by predicting the price of next week or month, then of course it can be like betting on uncertainty. But a person who continues to save slowly year after year with discretionary income after meeting his essential expenses is not actually basing his plan on the price forecast of next week. Rather, he is trying to strengthen his position in the long term. I am not saying that profits are guaranteed in long-term investments. There may be risks in long-term investments too, but that risk is not like betting on luck alone.

[osasshem]

I have been thinking lately about how investing in bitcoin is actually a great idea but also it can be really hard to make profit off bitcoin if you're a small Investor
Imagine this:
If bitcoin is at $64k and me as a small investor bought with $1k, for me to make 100% profit bitcoin will have to hit $128k, that is still feasible
But if I'm hoping to make a 200% profit on my investment bitcoin price will have to get to $256k, how achievable is that ? And if it's achievable how long is it going to take

Which brings me back to my question
Can small investors actually make good profit with bitcoin?

Or are there other ways to make money with bitcoin as a small investor rather than just buy and hold?

Based on what your expectations are with a $1k investment capital, it simply means you are looking for a quick way to get rich, and of which Bitcoin at this current stage is no more in that phase. A $1k investment as at 10 years back is a very large sum of capital to invest, and those who did then are on good profit now. So, if you invest $1k now and patiently wait for 5 years, you'll see positive feedback from the market, but if you want to see quick returns in a short period of time, you can try altcoins when the market is on a bullish trend or you can try gambling. One good bet can give you 100% or more, but when it comes to investment, any form at all, you need to be patient and wait for things to grow.

[Pablo-wood]

So consistency matters alots than trying to make a huge entry, the best is know how to manage your risk and learn along the line and then let your long-term Bitcoin accumulation goals grows higher, by exercising patience enough, then for the newbies, know how to control your discretionary income you put in, how frequent you do it and be able to identify whether you truly have the patience to stay consistent over a period if time.

Unfortunately, not all beginner investors, whether they have small or large capital, think this way. It can be really hard to maintain high consistency in mindset and discipline. Even professional investors seem to need a lot of time to achieve that. I myself, over nearly 11 years, still sometimes make mistakes. Many people want to become investors with the goal of getting rich quick, but very few can last long. So don’t think about how big your earnings are; instead, learn to be consistently persistent. Any amount of capital can help you last longer, which is the ultimate goal. Psychological mindset will play a big role in this investment.

Discipline for me is the topmost priority before considering the capital size. A disciplined investor even as a beginner will strive to maintain high consistency. A sincere investor understands nothing guarantees quick profit and many who are matured are open to the risk involved. Even discretionary income is not a guarantee to a successful investment especially when the investor lacks the patience and discipline to hodl onto their portfolio no matter what happens.

[reagansimms]

yre better off investing in something less shifty & unpredictable than bitcoin at such a rate if ur looking for real profit, not a smart idea, try ur luck if u want but i wouldn't bet on it

It is true that the price of Bitcoin is uncertain in the short term. But considering this short-term uncertainty, calling long-term investments a test of luck is a completely different matter. If you want to make a quick profit by predicting the price of next week or month, then of course it can be like betting on uncertainty. But a person who continues to save slowly year after year with discretionary income after meeting his essential expenses is not actually basing his plan on the price forecast of next week. Rather, he is trying to strengthen his position in the long term. I am not saying that profits are guaranteed in long-term investments. There may be risks in long-term investments too, but that risk is not like betting on luck alone.

Accumulating Bitcoin regularly over the long term is vastly different from speculating on the price for quick (short-term) profits. Long-term investing is a planned strategy to mitigate volatility risk, whereas short-term investing leans more towards speculation or market guesswork akin to gambling. In the short term, the price of Bitcoin is highly volatile and unpredictable. A 20% rise today could immediately be followed by a 30% drop the next day, it is precisely this uncertainty that leads many beginners to misunderstand Bitcoin and label it as gambling.

Imo, small investors don't need to overthink things. They also do not need to be analysts or monitor market prices 24/7. Simply accumulate Sats gradually, use "cold money," stick to initial (long-term) plan, and remain patient, that is what DCA is truly about, and it is the best strategy for small investors to profit from Bitcoin.

Indeed, there is no guarantee of long-term profit. Risks such as regulations, war, or the emergence of new technologies remain, but the objective is not a "gamble on luck." It is a bet on the network, adoption, and Bitcoin scarcity. As long as they believe Bitcoin will continue to be used in the future, a strategy of gradual accumulation starting now is the most sensible approach for small investors.

[JayJuanGee]

I have been thinking lately about how investing in bitcoin is actually a great idea but also it can be really hard to make profit off bitcoin if you're a small Investor
Imagine this:
If bitcoin is at $64k and me as a small investor bought with $1k, for me to make 100% profit bitcoin will have to hit $128k, that is still feasible
But if I'm hoping to make a 200% profit on my investment bitcoin price will have to get to $256k, how achievable is that ? And if it's achievable how long is it going to take

Which brings me back to my question
Can small investors actually make good profit with bitcoin?

Or are there other ways to make money with bitcoin as a small investor rather than just buy and hold?

Based on what your expectations are with a $1k investment capital, it simply means you are looking for a quick way to get rich, and of which Bitcoin at this current stage is no more in that phase. A $1k investment as at 10 years back is a very large sum of capital to invest, and those who did then are on good profit now. So, if you invest $1k now and patiently wait for 5 years, you'll see positive feedback from the market, but if you want to see quick returns in a short period of time, you can try altcoins when the market is on a bullish trend or you can try gambling. One good bet can give you 100% or more, but when it comes to investment, any form at all, you need to be patient and wait for things to grow.

Personally, I think that it is a bit ridiculous for guys to approach bitcoin with ONLY a one time investment into it (such as a lump sum) without follow up.

So what might we imagine $1,000 to represent in terms of a DCA amount?  Is it 10 weeks of DCA at $100 per week? or is it 20 weeks of DCA at $50 per week? or maybe it is 50 weeks of DCA at $20 per week?  What kind of a regular income should we presume the guy to have?  Maybe we can choose the option that $1k equals around 20 weeks of DCA, so then maybe we can presume that the guy has the ability to buy $50 per week worth of bitcoin on an ongoing basis.

And, yeah @osasshem, you suggested a 10 year timeline, so what was the BTC price 10 years prior to OP's posting?  o.k. I did a quick look up, and of course there was a price spike in mid 2016 from the end of May from $420 through the summer to around $700, and then a pretty decent correction back down to $500-ish due to the Bitfinex crash situation, so let's just say that OP got stared with various purchases of around an average of $600 per BTC so then he was pretty much able to start out with around 1.67 BTC from his first $1k worth of bitcoin, and then lets say that he figured out how to invest right around $50 per week from July-ish 2016 until now, so then it could have had been quite likely that over the next year he would have had invested $2,600 and then over the next 10-ish years he would have had invested right around $26k. .which we can also look that up from  BTC DCA calculators and see that he may well should have had been able to accumulate another 4.44 BTC or even slightly more than that... .

so then if we figured that he might have had invested a total of around $27k, then right now he would have something like 6.11 BTC, which surely many of us would consider to be a pretty good place to be for someone who had done a lump sum of $1k and then $50 per week over 10-ish years.  The supplementation of the $1k initial investment with DCA caused the overall investment to be much better, especially for a guy who might have had a 10 year or longer investment time horizon.  There are not too many investments (that are open to everyone and anyone) that could have had performed better than bitcoin in the past 10-ish years... especially for any normal person off of the street to be able to jump into bitcoin at his own personal budget level.

[HajiBagi]

This kind of thought often springs out from comparison. You're probably comparing yourself with investors with large portfolios but you tend to forget that many of them started small.

You don't have to buy big to make profit in Bitcoin big your capital is small, then you should focus on consistently accumulating sats. That's a good way to build your portfolio.

The only difference between a small investor and and big investor in Bitcoin is the size of their capital. But for the percentage of their are the same. If Bitcoin doubles from the price you bought it, your investment also doubles, wether you invested $100 or $100,000

What some new investors don’t understand is that we can never be the same, and we should not let what another person has to make us feel like we are not doing better, investing in bitcoin with big capital or small capital does not mean that when the price is high or doubled, you will not make a profit, and that is why you can invest with any amount you have. Every investors start with any amounts they have and the amount they can invest, focus on consistently accumulating more is the best way to achieve what you want, looking at many different ways to be like big investors can make you greedy and get scammed in the process.

[Futurexxx]

Personally, I think that it is a bit ridiculous for guys to approach bitcoin with ONLY a one time investment into it (such as a lump sum) without follow up.

I guess it's only what he knows or what his environment shows him, because ignorance is very costly. I have seen a situation whereby a business person is doing a business that is totally worth ordinary 3k in the Nigerian naira, but he is hoping for life to change, but he doesn't knows that life cannot change from selling that, or doing business that the total worth is just 3k, so what am trying to say is that most of these guys are just ignorant on how to invest in Bitcoin, they don't know that a follow up is very important, because without building a huge stash of Bitcoin, you don't stand a chance of being rich, even though Bitcoin rise to a million dollars today, because making some profit and having a stash of Bitcoin that can change your life forever are two different things altogether.

[Betwrong]

I think now reaching a new ATH can take 4 years from 2025, but not more than that.

I also think that in next 4 years we might see another ATH far higher than the current ATH. I expect the next ATH to be over $200k at least, but there's possibility that it could reach or cross even $250k. However in next few years I don't expect Bitcoin to cross $1 million, that will happen in future but not before 2035 I guess. I think once Bitcoin reaches $200k then investors will gain more confidence and that means we might see it going up and forming multiple ATH's in next bull run like it did in this bull run.

I personally think that, if not for the inflation, Bitcoin will never cross $1 million mark, but I totally agree with you that we'll see another ATH in a few years and that this time the price will be above $200k for sure.

~

~
My point in general is that profits is still possible in Bitcoin and long-term hold is still the right option but anyone with the ambition of getting 10x ROI in a short period like the next halving year, such person is not being realistic and such will only earn him heartbreak.

No, of course, that's very unrealistic. But, actually, maybe not that unrealistic, if you think of it. BTC once went from $1k to $19k in fours years, so ... I'm not saying, it can be 19x ROI, but 5x from the previous ATH, which would be $620k - the 10x ROI, if you invest today - is, what I think, possible.

[Sim_card]

Personally, I think that it is a bit ridiculous for guys to approach bitcoin with ONLY a one time investment into it (such as a lump sum) without follow up.

That's the point some people fail to understand because anyone investing in bitcoin must continue to invest consistently and persistently with DCA since he's building a financial structure for his old age and if he just lump sum and forget about it, that wouldn't take him nowhere, because you wouldn't live just a day and die and retirement but for several years maybe, ten or more.

It's just like trying to build a house and you only dig the foundation of the house without buying bricks to erect it gradually. Bitcoin investment is all about building and growing it for a long time with a lot of commitment and not just once buying.

[avp2306]

Personally, I think that it is a bit ridiculous for guys to approach bitcoin with ONLY a one time investment into it (such as a lump sum) without follow up.

That's the point some people fail to understand because anyone investing in bitcoin must continue to invest consistently and persistently with DCA since he's building a financial structure for his old age and if he just lump sum and forget about it, that wouldn't take him nowhere, because you wouldn't live just a day and die and retirement but for several years maybe, ten or more.

It's just like trying to build a house and you only dig the foundation of the house without buying bricks to erect it gradually. Bitcoin investment is all about building and growing it for a long time with a lot of commitment and not just once buying.

What you have said actually make sense here, but its more realistic if we look at this way.

Bitcoin investment is not truly a one time commitment, because this is long term habits. No single investor could able to build their investment or retirement for just doing 1 time transaction then try to forget about that purchase they made.

This is so hard to figure out and earning huge does not work that way. Because their expenses, income and confidence change also the pattern of investments they do since it evolves to.

Those people which do one time lump sum actually not investing, but rather they are just hoping Bitcoin to pump more.

Then those people choose to became consistent on their investment even if they used small amount of their money is actually building their future.

[Obulis]

Sometimes it's not about having a big or small capital, but about the consistency to keep going and trying to make a profit. Start with whatever you can afford. Because investing is a process. The most important thing is that you can be consistent, manage your time, and handle risk. Build ownership consistently, manage risk, and let time and discipline do their work. From small beginnings, something big can be built. Sometimes we'll hit a jackpot at a certain time, so small capital is not a problem. What's important is your patience, because reaching something big takes longer, but you'll get the best education from it. CMIIW

Waiting for big capital before starting to will make people lose the benefits of the power compounding by consistently and patiently investing this little amount overt a long time. And you know what? this little or small capital that is neglected (seen not to be enough for investment) will be spent and not accounted for, this makes it unreasonable to see the little amount of capital you have as not enough because investing means accounting for it and in hope of it compounding definitely.

[Odohu]

Sometimes it's not about having a big or small capital, but about the consistency to keep going and trying to make a profit. Start with whatever you can afford. Because investing is a process. The most important thing is that you can be consistent, manage your time, and handle risk. Build ownership consistently, manage risk, and let time and discipline do their work. From small beginnings, something big can be built. Sometimes we'll hit a jackpot at a certain time, so small capital is not a problem. What's important is your patience, because reaching something big takes longer, but you'll get the best education from it. CMIIW

You sounded so much like a trader in the part of your statement I made bold. It is traders that aims for profits so desperately and because of how desperate they are, the panic and make mistakes that cost them part of their capital. Long-term investors will not have their mind occupied by the profits but will be focused on building their Bitcoin portfolio to their targets knowing that with sufficient time given to the investment, profits will always come. The goal should be consistence and long-term.

[samadam007]

anyone investing in bitcoin must continue to invest consistently and persistently with DCA since he's building a financial structure for his old age and if he just lump sum and forget about it, that wouldn't take him nowhere, because you wouldn't live just a day and die and retirement but for several years maybe, ten or more.

It's just like trying to build a house and you only dig the foundation of the house without buying bricks to erect it gradually. Bitcoin investment is all about building and growing it for a long time with a lot of commitment and not just once buying.

Many of us fuck with DCA big time because it’s for both big and small investors and make it easy for us to accumulate Bitcoin, but that doesn't mean you should talk down on lump sum or act like it’s not long term strategy too. Some investors(especially those with huge amount of capital available) may prefer too invest larger amount at once and hold it for many years. It does not mean the investment won’t take them anywhere.

I prefer DCA because it makes investing easier to plan around income. If you’re sure you can comfortably invest a particular amount every week or month, you can make that part of you’re financial routine instead of waiting until you have large amount of money available. It also help to reduce the pressure of trying to time the market.

DCA doesn't have to be rigid either and this another thing people need to understand. An individual can have an ongoing regular DCA plan and still make occasional lump sum purchase when they have extra money available and their financial situation allows it. There is nothing wrong combining the two approach if a person financial situation allows. Another person may not have the capacity or have but prefer to stick to his regular DCA. The two investors are good regardless

[JoyceBTC]

Even people who have knowledge about bitcoin still panic when market price drop. I don’t think it is about just having the knowledge, it solely the depends on the level of the individual on how they handle the dip.

Am really interested to know why you think that not panicking during the dip depends on how you hand the dip.
I think that you are wrong, because knowledge or having more composure as you think will not save you from panicking if you invest what you cannot afford to lose

Are you sure you really understand what I’m saying? I never said knowledge or having more composure will save you from panicking when the market is experiencing a dip. I said having knowledge doesn’t stop one from panicking but depends on the individual. It depends on how you’re able to discipline yourself and also have self control to continue holding and not sell out of fear without allowing your emotions interfere.
One can have all the knowledge they want to have about bitcoin investment and still end up making mistakes.

[Emeraldo]

Sometimes it's not about having a big or small capital, but about the consistency to keep going and trying to make a profit. Start with whatever you can afford. Because investing is a process. The most important thing is that you can be consistent, manage your time, and handle risk. Build ownership consistently, manage risk, and let time and discipline do their work. From small beginnings, something big can be built. Sometimes we'll hit a jackpot at a certain time, so small capital is not a problem. What's important is your patience, because reaching something big takes longer, but you'll get the best education from it. CMIIW

Waiting for big capital before starting to will make people lose the benefits of the power compounding by consistently and patiently investing this little amount overt a long time. And you know what? this little or small capital that is neglected (seen not to be enough for investment) will be spent and not accounted for, this makes it unreasonable to see the little amount of capital you have as not enough because investing means accounting for it and in hope of it compounding definitely.

The power of consistency can make any investor whether small or big, based on capital to become successful in their investment practice over a long period of time. You don't have to have big capital before you start investing in Bitcoin and such an idea can make us lose opportunity of taking advantage of the market at the right time. There are different strategies we can use to accumulate Bitcoin and this is based on the kind of investor we want to be whether a long term investor or a short term investor.

[Pandorak]

Waiting for big capital before starting to will make people lose the benefits of the power compounding by consistently and patiently investing this little amount overt a long time. And you know what? this little or small capital that is neglected (seen not to be enough for investment) will be spent and not accounted for, this makes it unreasonable to see the little amount of capital you have as not enough because investing means accounting for it and in hope of it compounding definitely.

Often, especially novice investors, don’t fully understand that starting to invest doesn’t require a huge amount of capital, you can even start with just a few dozen dollars. At times, i’ve noticed that the reason for this is that they’re too focused on Bitcoin high price. So, they think it’s better to wait for a price drop to occur, continuing to save money in the meantime, when the drop they’re hoping for finally happens, That’s when they make a bulk purchase. In reality, however, we cannot accurately predict the exact bottom of Bitcoin price during every downturn, that’s why it’s always recommended to invest using the DCA method, the rest is simply a matter of maintaining consistency in accumulating holdings.

[KingsDen]

In the last 12.5 years since I have been in bitcoin, I have heard many times guys whining about how they had bought at the top and how they know about other people who bought at the top.

I frequently would say: "So fucking what? If you were serious about bitcoin at the top, then our current prices should be really good."

Many guys think that they are locked in when they start at the top, and sure, perhaps part of the problem is that some of them think that they blew their whole wadd at the top, so that they do not have any money left (or that they want to put into bitcoin).

Many times the problem is resolved by ongoingly investing.

In late November 2013, when I started to buy bitcoin, I started at the top, so my very first purchase was for bitcoin at $1,200 (which was higher than the top because of various fees in the way that I had gotten it), so then sure I continued to buy bitcoin and my average cost per bitcoin continued to get lower because the BTC price continued to go down throughout 2014 and then to pretty much stay flat at the bottom (around $250) for the whole of 2015.  So by the time we got to early 2015, my cost per BTC was in the upper $500s and then  by the time we got to the end of 2015, my cost per BTC were slightly below $500, but my holdings were still largely in the negative based on the then BTC prices.. but I continued to buy and even having my own cashflow problems that made it difficult to buy very much bitcoin in 2015 when the prices were the lowest.

Part of the value in NOT blowing your whole wadd at the top is that you are prepared to continue to buy if the price goes down. 

Part of the value of continuing to buy bitcoin tends to be that your average cost per BTC continues to go down so that BTC prices do not have to reach the previous ATH for your BTC holdings to come into being "in profits" on paper.

So sure there were likely some guys who bought at higher prices and they may even could have had bought "too much," yet I would think that if they continue to have an income it likely could be a good thing to continue to buy, yet surely guys have to make these decisions for themselves and surely guys do get worried about an ongoing and continuing (and never stopping) spiraling down of the price, so that they continue to buy but the prices continue to get lower.. So yeah, guys might have that fear, yet they still have to decide what they are going to do...and sure some guys do end up choosing to buy high and sell lower than their buy price rather than to just keep buying.. since there are no guarantees that the BTC price is going to go back up or even go up enough to recoupe losses.

And, yeah some other guys continue to buy but then as soon as they get into "profits" they end up selling, and yeah, those are choices.  The ones who sold at $500 in 2016 were likely regretting it. Even the ones who sold at $1,200, or any place under $3k were likely regretting it, yet people do what they are going to do, even dumb shit (maybe their level of dumb is not realized until several years later, too?).

In 2021, I started buying from the top and that was the height of the bull run, and everything was moving pretty well. I traded sometimes and thought I learnt how to trade, not knowing that I was aided by the bull run. This joy did not last long until the market reversed and the fiat value of my bitcoin kept reducing and reducing. I started complaining and I was told to sell my bitcoin before it will all vanish. I sold around $50k while the price already dropped from $79,000 ATH then.

I was no longer buying bitcoin until 2022, when I stumbled on a conversation between you and one other forum member, who said you or Danny Hamilton motivated him to buy $50 bitcoin weekly. After reading the chat, I started saving part of my weekly campaign earnings from 2022. I was doing this not minding the price. Infact, you guys motivated me to start doing DCA even before getting to know what it meant.

From then to 2025, I saw a huge result that changed my life. But I didn't somehow exit the market at around $120k, but I took some profits to handle some projects. The market crashed on me, but I am not panicking because I have understood how it works. I am active buying for 2029/30.

[JayJuanGee]

Personally, I think that it is a bit ridiculous for guys to approach bitcoin with ONLY a one time investment into it (such as a lump sum) without follow up.

That's the point some people fail to understand because anyone investing in bitcoin must continue to invest consistently and persistently with DCA since he's building a financial structure for his old age and if he just lump sum and forget about it, that wouldn't take him nowhere, because you wouldn't live just a day and die and retirement but for several years maybe, ten or more.

It's just like trying to build a house and you only dig the foundation of the house without buying bricks to erect it gradually. Bitcoin investment is all about building and growing it for a long time with a lot of commitment and not just once buying.

What you have said actually make sense here, but its more realistic if we look at this way.
Bitcoin investment is not truly a one time commitment, because this is long term habits. No single investor could able to build their investment or retirement for just doing 1 time transaction then try to forget about that purchase they made.

This is so hard to figure out and earning huge does not work that way. Because their expenses, income and confidence change also the pattern of investments they do since it evolves to.
Those people which do one time lump sum actually not investing, but rather they are just hoping Bitcoin to pump more.
Then those people choose to became consistent on their investment even if they used small amount of their money is actually building their future.

There are a lot of people who think about investments as lump sums, and perhaps they are not wrong, since so many historical investments might have had been structured in lump sum kinds of ways, yet bitcoin allows a person to invest over time, and sure it might even be preferable to lump sum invest, even into bitcoin, yet so many normal people do not have lump sum amounts available, so instead maybe they will spend 4-10 years or longer just buying their bitcoin, and if they happen to have funds to be able to front load their investment, they might be able to invest within a few years in the beginning rather than spreading their initial investment over many years, such as over 4-10 years or longer.  Even a person who might be able to invest 10% of his income into bitcoin, at that 10% per year rate, it is going to take him 10 years to be able to put a whole year's income into bitcoin, and whether a whole year's income is enough or not may depend upon how well bitcoin performs, and if bitcoin performs in modest rather than exponential ways, then he may have to continue to put money into bitcoin in order to get his stash size to a large enough amount that it makes a significant difference, especially  if the value of bitcoin had been going up during the 10 years or more that he had been buying into it, and so then the bitcoin he bought in his earlier years of investing would have had been bought at much lower prices as compared with the bitcoin he bought in the later down the road years.   The bitcoin that he had bought in his early years would have had likely appreciated in value much more than the bitcoin that he had bought in later years.

Sometimes it's not about having a big or small capital, but about the consistency to keep going and trying to make a profit. Start with whatever you can afford. Because investing is a process. The most important thing is that you can be consistent, manage your time, and handle risk. Build ownership consistently, manage risk, and let time and discipline do their work. From small beginnings, something big can be built. Sometimes we'll hit a jackpot at a certain time, so small capital is not a problem. What's important is your patience, because reaching something big takes longer, but you'll get the best education from it. CMIIW

You sounded so much like a trader in the part of your statement I made bold. It is traders that aims for profits so desperately and because of how desperate they are, the panic and make mistakes that cost them part of their capital. Long-term investors will not have their mind occupied by the profits but will be focused on building their Bitcoin portfolio to their targets knowing that with sufficient time given to the investment, profits will always come. The goal should be consistence and long-term.

Of course if we might be projecting the value of our bitcoin and the options that we might have in the future, we may well project a variety of scenarios including profitable scenarios and even worser case scenarios, and surely we may well presume profits to be highly likely, but such profits are not guaranteed, even though the profits in our bitcoin holdings might affect both when and how we might be able to start to withdraw from our bitcoin holdings based on how valuable our bitcoin holdings end up being at various points in time down the road, and how we are valuating those bitcoin holdings.  

So, for example, if we might have had spent 10 years accumulating bitcoin and then maybe we wait another 5 years before we start withdrawing from our holdings.  The ultimate value of our bitcoin holdings affects our options, not whether or not they are in profits - and so maybe we had put 1.5 years worth of our income into bitcoin over the 10 years, yet the bitcoin holdings overall had grown 5x (maybe more or maybe less?), so then maybe our holdings are worth 7.5x our annual income (and maybe I am presuming that the value of our bitcoin holdings is keeping up with the cost of living including keeping up with the increases in our income over the years).....  

We might have a withdrawal system that we have planned for our bitcoin that does not allow us start to withdraw from our bitcoin holdings until our holdings are worth 10x our desired withdraw amount, so we might need to keep adding to our holdings, or maybe we have to wait to withdraw at a later date, or maybe we would withdraw at a lower amount so that we are not withdrawing more than 1/10 of it valued at the 200-WMA to the extent that may or may not be sustainable.. and to the extent that we want sustainable withdrawal or we figure out some other way of measuring value of our holdings and the way we withdraw from our holdings.

Maybe it is better if I use an actual historical example based on actual historical bitcoin prices?  If we say that a hypothetical person with a $30k income had been buying $100 per week (17% of his income) of bitcoin from January 2017 until present  That would be slightly more than 9.5 years of accumulation.  He would have invested $5,200 per year and perhaps a bit more than $50k over the past 9.5 years,  which would be slightly more than 5.5 bitcoin, which right now would allow him to start to withdraw close to his current income, right around $24k per year at the current reduced withdrawal rates^**.  So this hypothetical guy may well want to accumulate more bitcoin or withdraw at a lower rate or just wait for a few more months for the BTC price to go up and to reach more than 25% higher than the 200WMA so that his withdrawal rate would likely be able to reach a higher rate, if at minimum he would like to be able to withdraw at his current income level, which is $30k per year and by the way once the BTC prices reach greater than 25% above the 200-WMA (which presumably they will at some point), then based on his current stash size of 5.5 BTC, he can currently withdraw at $35k per year.  

**My own bitcoin withdrawal tool does not allow withdrawing at the full rate until the bitcoin price is at least 25% higher than the 200-WMA, and right now since the BTC price is slightly over the 200-WMA, it only allows to withdraw 70% of the normal withdrawal rate.

I am in agreement with you @Odohu in terms of the value (and size) of the bitcoin holdings dictating the withdrawal rate, even though even in the example that I gave, the value of the bitcoin holdings are only able to sustain a high enough withdrawal rate based on bitcoin's price having had appreciated over the past 9.5 years, so the profits have to be there for the formula to function properly, even though we may well not be focused on withdrawing profits, but instead withdrawing in a way that is sustainable to either completely replace our current income or to supplement our current income.

anyone investing in bitcoin must continue to invest consistently and persistently with DCA since he's building a financial structure for his old age and if he just lump sum and forget about it, that wouldn't take him nowhere, because you wouldn't live just a day and die and retirement but for several years maybe, ten or more.

It's just like trying to build a house and you only dig the foundation of the house without buying bricks to erect it gradually. Bitcoin investment is all about building and growing it for a long time with a lot of commitment and not just once buying.

Many of us fuck with DCA big time because it’s for both big and small investors and make it easy for us to accumulate Bitcoin, but that doesn't mean you should talk down on lump sum or act like it’s not long term strategy too. Some investors(especially those with huge amount of capital available) may prefer too invest larger amount at once and hold it for many years. It does not mean the investment won’t take them anywhere.

Frequently lump sum is talked about as a superior investment approach, yet part of the problem is actually having the lump sum amount available, so in that sense lump sum might not even be available to some people or during certain times the DCA approach may be way more practical, even if they have a lot of money and even if they might be able to get lump sum amounts from time to time, it may be more practical to just buy bitcoin with whatever amounts they coming in and coming available, and then maybe at certain points, if lump sum comes available then consider it as one of the possible three options of how to buy bitcoin, which is 1) right away, 2) defer by time (DCA) and/or 3) defer by price (buy dips that might not end up happening).

I prefer DCA because it makes investing easier to plan around income. If you’re sure you can comfortably invest a particular amount every week or month, you can make that part of you’re financial routine instead of waiting until you have large amount of money available. It also help to reduce the pressure of trying to time the market.

Of course, pure lump sum does not have anything to do with timing the market, unless the person who is employing it decides to combine it with timing the market, then it really turns into either buying the dip or a combination of lump sum and buying the dip.  In other words, pure lump sum does not necessarily have a buying the dip component, since if a guy who tends to make $1,500 every two weeks, suddenly receives an extra $3,500 as a bonus, then he can decide to use that money right away to buy bitcoin or to first figure out how he wants to use it, and then once he authorizes himself to buy bitcoin, the buy right away, whether he perceives the BTC price to be up, down or sideways.

DCA doesn't have to be rigid either and this another thing people need to understand. An individual can have an ongoing regular DCA plan and still make occasional lump sum purchase when they have extra money available and their financial situation allows it. There is nothing wrong combining the two approach if a person financial situation allows. Another person may not have the capacity or have but prefer to stick to his regular DCA. The two investors are good regardless

For sure, this way of thinking about ongoingly DCAing and perhaps every once in a while lump summing comes off as practical, since many times guys will come accross extra money that causes them to be justified in considering lump sum and/or buying the dip in addition to whatever ongoing DCA that they might be employing.

[edited out]

In 2021, I started buying from the top and that was the height of the bull run, and everything was moving pretty well. I traded sometimes and thought I learnt how to trade, not knowing that I was aided by the bull run. This joy did not last long until the market reversed and the fiat value of my bitcoin kept reducing and reducing. I started complaining and I was told to sell my bitcoin before it will all vanish. I sold around $50k while the price already dropped from $79,000 ATH then.

I was no longer buying bitcoin until 2022, when I stumbled on a conversation between you and one other forum member, who said you or Danny Hamilton motivated him to buy $50 bitcoin weekly. After reading the chat, I started saving part of my weekly campaign earnings from 2022. I was doing this not minding the price. Infact, you guys motivated me to start doing DCA even before getting to know what it meant.

From then to 2025, I saw a huge result that changed my life. But I didn't somehow exit the market at around $120k, but I took some profits to handle some projects. The market crashed on me, but I am not panicking because I have understood how it works. I am active buying for 2029/30.

It can be funny that sometimes, these forum interactions can help us to think more clearly about our own approach and to perhaps to make some changes to our approach that end up converting us from a bitcoin trader into a bitcoin investor.    

At the same time, I continue to suggest that it can take quite a long time to really build up a reasonably decent size bitcoin stash, and I don't exactly believe in trying to play cycles, even though guys have to figure out what works for them...since I tend to think that it is better to accumulate bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer and for me I would not justify selling any bitcoin until reaching a status of having enough or more than enough bitcoin, so playing the cycles would not be part of that (at least from my thinking about how to transition out of bitcoin accumulation into maintenance and then later into withdraw or sustainable withdrawal that can be using price-based withdrawals and/or time-based withdrawals, yet my selling is not with intentions to buy back.  You can seem my sustainable withdrawal ideas in my sustainable withdrawal thread.

[Bluedrem]

You sounded so much like a trader in the part of your statement I made bold. It is traders that aims for profits so desperately and because of how desperate they are, the panic and make mistakes that cost them part of their capital. Long-term investors will not have their mind occupied by the profits but will be focused on building their Bitcoin portfolio to their targets knowing that with sufficient time given to the investment, profits will always come. The goal should be consistence and long-term.

Suppose you have a valuable asset that you value so much that you would want to lose it and take it back. Why would a person trade in Bitcoin when there is so much wealth in the world? Where Bitcoin is currently envisioned as a hedge to preserve value and is said to be a thousand times better than gold in terms of scope. Also, even if people do not have any lump sum money, what else can be the best alternative to Bitcoin to build a savings on discretionary income.
And trading is a completely different matter. Traders do it but it may not be profitable. However, long-term storage of Bitcoin will definitely benefit an investor if nothing happens, i.e. Bitcoin continues to operate in its own ecosystem.

[AprilioMP]

I suspect there are still people who lack knowledge about Bitcoin investing—such as not fully understanding how the Bitcoin market works—and who make large purchases all at once, which makes them prone to panic when the market price drops below their purchase price.

In fact, many potential bitcoin investors lack the friends who would tell them that it is not such a difficult task to invest bitcoin, especially if you use the only correct DCA strategy. But, unfortunately, many are afraid to take the time to understand bitcoin and blockchain, and therefore they are not participants in investing. I also want to note that in today's fast pace of life, many people succumb to the false idea that money can and should be earned quickly, but in fact 4-10 years is not such a long time that will pass unnoticed if you just set out to invest your discretionary income using the DCA strategy. I think the most important thing for such investors is just to develop a habit, psychologists say that this has been happening for the third time. Therefore, it is easier than it seems to embark on the path of sound investment.

It’s incredibly easy to learn and understand, and accessible to anyone willing to learn—especially in today’s world, where anyone can gain knowledge simply by using a smartphone. At the very least, people can gain a basic understanding of Bitcoin and Bitcoin investing. Through online searches, they can figure out for themselves what they’re reading—they don’t need a special expert to teach them how to invest in Bitcoin. The most basic aspect is storage, since investments are typically held for 4–10 years. A 4–10-year timeframe doesn’t feel long to investors who are no longer newbies. For newcomers, however, that timeframe may seem very long, and they may also worry about how to secure their assets.