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Author Topic: DARKCOIN (NOW KNOWN AS DASH) BIG SCAM?? let's take a closer look  (Read 13649 times)
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April 06, 2014, 02:45:14 PM
 #41


i agree with this, i'm only here to make money, never stated otherwise in my post ever

and i don't fucking care about the coin itself lol or what algo they use, even the one who fight against scammer are here to scam, the world itself is a fucking scamcage, they should rename this section "Alternative Scamcoin" like ai said months ago in one of my post(and i still remember it clearly)...

but there is one coin that i actualy like, huntercoin, i like it because promote gaming through mining, and gaming is one of my passions in my life

Fine, once known that "although in my opinion second gen coins worth a look for something more than make quick bucks" I ask you to allow the rest of miners dump their shit and don't make bad publicity of the scamtrains you didn't caught Wink
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April 06, 2014, 02:55:55 PM
 #42

So after starting a thread looking at the merits of x11 over existing algos and not getting even 1 ....yes not even 1 clearly verified advantage the thread seemed to become infested with dark coin destroyers.

Still going on about this? I'll give you one reason, which is what the dev has explicitly stated. The new algo was created to allow a decentralized distribution in the same manner as bitcoin, i.e cpu miners first, followed by GPU, and then eventually ASIC. If the dev had just used SHA256 from the start, only ASIC miners would be able to mine the coin. A new algo was required.

sure, thanks for the information....however

please put this in the x11 thread. This thread is not examining x11, this thread is examining the 2 points in the OP.

Come on stick to the topic, if you want to discuss x11 again go to the x11 thread.

anonuser777 insists about taking about x11 and asics to derail this thread.... this is investigating the instamine scam of darkcoin not the seperate investigation of whether x11 is pure marketing bullshit with no real world advantages over previous chained algos.

thanks for trying to be helpful but post that stuff in the x11 thread.

Ok, fine, I'll try to keep within the extremely narrow bounds of your thread, despite the false info in your OP.

If this is a scam, would you care to put some numbers on the amount of instamined blocks? What percentage of the total number of coins in existence are we looking at? Has the dev effectively instamined 1% of all coins or 0.001%? If it's not much then it's not really worth arguing about. Why not also go the the BTC forum and complain about Satoshi's instamining? Most people agree that Satoshi deserves some financial reward for his efforts, so why not eduffield too. Without knowing how much the dev allegedly instamined we have no way of evaluating if this is a fair reward or not.

Let's not derail it into BTC thread. If you want to derail it to being about btc create your own thread. Now to the point of the % of instamine. This is of course VERY important. I will not mention a number that i suspect since i am the OP and will be called bias. I invite others to examine the block explorer and speculate with evidence how great you feel the devs instamine was. There is no doubt that he instamined but how much??  I have seen figures of 1%-14% mentioned but everyone one should examine the time stamp of release and compare to the block explorer.  How soon after the actual release was someone on the chain and how much was mined before a windows QT was released. Bare in mind up until that oint a VERY high % of the board were excluded.

So let's have some answers here what is the min he could have instamined and the max he could have instamined. OF course a non scam coin would not give any opportunity for instamine by its own dev, simply for this very reason. It is sneaky and hard to tell how much they grab. Why not do a fair premine of 1% and be honest with a public wallet etc....

Instamine by the dev on any coin is double damage to miners for the reasons i have already mentioned. That's a normal instamine like not giving password protected zips so everyone has to spend at least 5 mins downloading virus scanning con,f sync, bat, run....   so a in 5 mins a dev can mine up 100's and 100's and 100's of blocks....then sure they can mine still whilst people gradually come on to the chain and they can continue to mine.
That's a normal instamine.... where the full board can reach the chain in 5 mins.

Now imagine and instamine where windows qt people are not allowed to mine for ..... well how long was it ?

The instamine max could have been gigantic.

Yes the dev should have some coins, but how much should they have and how should they take them? Not like this that is for sure that is a drk tactic.  If you are going to instamine why not premine so everyone can see how much is taken?

Why don't people look into this themselves by looking at the block explorer... how long after announce does the chain get hit..... how much does that person take... hell what % does the first few people take... i mean with no windows QT they were killing that chain.  The wallet distribution today means nothing, anyone can move coins around. Study the block explorer from launch.


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April 06, 2014, 03:04:31 PM
 #43

bitcoin was instamined too stop the butthurt about instamine

bad launch time plus ninja launch is far worse than any instamined coin with ANN

Well how many other people besides satoshi knew about bitcoin? It take a while for bitcoin to gain traction, so yes assume for the first year or so I assume that difficult was very low. Not like today where there i brhrving community if crypto currency enthusiasts and miners.

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April 06, 2014, 03:22:32 PM
 #44

Darkcoin was first known as Xcoin.
But then with a relaunch Xcoin was changed to Darkcoin.

But as Xcoin was thought to be instamined and a scam , so no one thought of even mining Darkcoin . Only a bunch of miners mined it at the time of launch . And it's launch was well pre-announced .

Previous thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=384582.100

Current thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0

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April 06, 2014, 03:36:11 PM
 #45


Let's not derail it into BTC thread. If you want to derail it to being about btc create your own thread. Now to the point of the % of instamine. This is of course VERY important. I will not mention a number that i suspect since i am the OP and will be called bias. I invite others to examine the block explorer and speculate with evidence how great you feel the devs instamine was. There is no doubt that he instamined but how much??  I have seen figures of 1%-14% mentioned but everyone one should examine the time stamp of release and compare to the block explorer.  How soon after the actual release was someone on the chain and how much was mined before a windows QT was released. Bare in mind up until that oint a VERY high % of the board were excluded.

I had a quick look into the numbers. I think it could be quite a lot, perhaps "huge" isn't an overstatement. One of the issues is that initially the difficulty retarget was set to 1 day, rather than 1 hour as intended. Also, there was a bug in the block rewards which meant they reset to max (500). It was fixed by block 4500. Overall, a hell of a lot of coins were mined in the first 24 hrs.

Is it me or difficulty is stuck at 1.00 for the last 2 hours? The network is around 100Mh/s, and we are solving blocks faster than every 5 minutes, shouldn't diff be higher?

Yeah, it's been around 12 hours now and difficulty changed only few times. In the code there is:

static const int64 nTargetTimespan = 24 * 60 * 60; // Xcoin: 1 day
static const int64 nTargetSpacing = 2.5 * 60; // Xcoin: 2.5 minutes
static const int64 nInterval = nTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;

so interval between difficulty changes is 24 * 60 / 2.5 = 576 blocks. For me it looks like the target difficulty adjustment period is 1 day, not 1 hour.

You're correct.
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April 06, 2014, 03:45:14 PM
Last edit: April 06, 2014, 04:11:46 PM by cryptohunter
 #46

So after starting a thread looking at the merits of x11 over existing algos and not getting even 1 ....yes not even 1 clearly verified advantage the thread seemed to become infested with dark coin destroyers.

Still going on about this? I'll give you one reason, which is what the dev has explicitly stated. The new algo was created to allow a decentralized distribution in the same manner as bitcoin, i.e cpu miners first, followed by GPU, and then eventually ASIC. If the dev had just used SHA256 from the start, only ASIC miners would be able to mine the coin. A new algo was required.

sure, thanks for the information....however

please put this in the x11 thread. This thread is not examining x11, this thread is examining the 2 points in the OP.

Come on stick to the topic, if you want to discuss x11 again go to the x11 thread.

anonuser777 insists about taking about x11 and asics to derail this thread.... this is investigating the instamine scam of darkcoin not the seperate investigation of whether x11 is pure marketing bullshit with no real world advantages over previous chained algos.

thanks for trying to be helpful but post that stuff in the x11 thread.

Ok, fine, I'll try to keep within the extremely narrow bounds of your thread, despite the false info in your OP.

If this is a scam, would you care to put some numbers on the amount of instamined blocks? What percentage of the total number of coins in existence are we looking at? Has the dev effectively instamined 1% of all coins or 0.001%? If it's not much then it's not really worth arguing about. Why not also go the the BTC forum and complain about Satoshi's instamining? Most people agree that Satoshi deserves some financial reward for his efforts, so why not eduffield too. Without knowing how much the dev allegedly instamined we have no way of evaluating if this is a fair reward or not.

Let's not derail it into BTC thread. If you want to derail it to being about btc create your own thread. Now to the point of the % of instamine. This is of course VERY important. I will not mention a number that i suspect since i am the OP and will be called bias. I invite others to examine the block explorer and speculate with evidence how great you feel the devs instamine was. There is no doubt that he instamined but how much??  I have seen figures of 1%-14% mentioned but everyone one should examine the time stamp of release and compare to the block explorer.  How soon after the actual release was someone on the chain and how much was mined before a windows QT was released. Bare in mind up until that oint a VERY high % of the board were excluded.

So let's have some answers here what is the min he could have instamined and the max he could have instamined. OF course a non scam coin would not give any opportunity for instamine by its own dev, simply for this very reason. It is sneaky and hard to tell how much they grab. Why not do a fair premine of 1% and be honest with a public wallet etc....

Instamine by the dev on any coin is double damage to miners for the reasons i have already mentioned. That's a normal instamine like not giving password protected zips so everyone has to spend at least 5 mins downloading virus scanning con,f sync, bat, run....   so a in 5 mins a dev can mine up 100's and 100's and 100's of blocks....then sure they can mine still whilst people gradually come on to the chain and they can continue to mine.
That's a normal instamine.... where the full board can reach the chain in 5 mins.

Now imagine and instamine where windows qt people are not allowed to mine for ..... well how long was it ?

The instamine max could have been gigantic.

Yes the dev should have some coins, but how much should they have and how should they take them? Not like this that is for sure that is a drk tactic.  If you are going to instamine why not premine so everyone can see how much is taken?

Why don't people look into this themselves by looking at the block explorer... how long after announce does the chain get hit..... how much does that person take... hell what % does the first few people take... i mean with no windows QT they were killing that chain.  The wallet distribution today means nothing, anyone can move coins around. Study the block explorer from launch.

I had a quick look into the numbers. I think it could be quite a lot, perhaps "huge" isn't an overstatement. One of the issues is that initially the difficulty retarget was set to 1 day, rather than 1 hour as intended. That means a hell of a lot of coins were mined in the first 24 hrs.

Is it me or difficulty is stuck at 1.00 for the last 2 hours? The network is around 100Mh/s, and we are solving blocks faster than every 5 minutes, shouldn't diff be higher?

Yeah, it's been around 12 hours now and difficulty changed only few times. In the code there is:

static const int64 nTargetTimespan = 24 * 60 * 60; // Xcoin: 1 day
static const int64 nTargetSpacing = 2.5 * 60; // Xcoin: 2.5 minutes
static const int64 nInterval = nTargetTimespan / nTargetSpacing;

so interval between difficulty changes is 24 * 60 / 2.5 = 576 blocks. For me it looks like the target difficulty adjustment period is 1 day, not 1 hour.

You're correct.

Well, thanks for the honest feedback regarding this. The block explorer.... what a lovely tool. I wonder what we will do without it once things eventually go dark on us.

 It seems even more worrying now. I mean if the diff somehow got stuck a super low rate for hours on end and not many of us were allowed to mine it then the HUGE instamine that was brought to my attention gains credibility. Luckily later they fixed it so not everyone could get those low diff coins ....only them.

I hope people are paying attention to this evidence. It is becoming almost to obvious to ignore any further.

TAOWAY  you may have just caused us to stumble upon one of the largest instamine scams that has ever taken place??  If people cry about a 2% premine i have a feeling that when the truth comes out about this instamine those same people should be screaming..... I wonder if the fact they have a few drk crumbs will make them scream less than they should?



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April 06, 2014, 04:39:14 PM
 #47

Most of the bigger coins such as Bitcoin, Litecoin, Vertcoin, & NXT all have whales that own large percentage of coin count and manipulate the market to not let price fall below a certain point.  No matter how the distribution phase goes, the whales are going to show up and take over.  Darkcoin is roughly the exact same as Litecoin in terms of distribution amongst whales that can implode the market at any time if they so choose.

Bitcoin can be imploded to nothing by the Mark Karpeles "fund" (TM).  Litecoin and Darkcoin can both be imploded by 2 wallets unloading everything.  NXT can be imploded by the wind blowing the wrong direction.

The biggest VTC wallet wasn't even close to as big as the other coins last time I looked, but unloading 50-100k coins is still going to cause some problems.

When I say "imploded", I don't really mean killing the coin, but the price instantly dropping to 1/4 to 1/2 and taking a month to recover to between 50-75% original value isn't fun.

The negative whale factor can also be a positive since they tend to prop the price up to protect their investments.

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April 06, 2014, 04:46:35 PM
 #48

I have to agree 100% as well.
I reviewed the code & their so called version 10, is in fact still 0.8.6 codebase. I asked them so many times, never gave any straight answer.

I suggest all users to wait till they release their so called Version 99,100 etc.
What a bullshit, telling users they are "version 10".

I want to see what Dark Coin dev has to say?




At least new X11 based coins like Virtual Coin are upfront & honest, it is better to support development of coins which shares source before launch.

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April 06, 2014, 04:50:22 PM
 #49

Most of the bigger coins such as Bitcoin, Litecoin, Vertcoin, & NXT all have whales that own large percentage of coin count and manipulate the market to not let price fall below a certain point.  No matter how the distribution phase goes, the whales are going to show up and take over.  Darkcoin is roughly the exact same as Litecoin in terms of distribution amongst whales that can implode the market at any time if they so choose.

Bitcoin can be imploded to nothing by the Mark Karpeles "fund" (TM).  Litecoin and Darkcoin can both be imploded by 2 wallets unloading everything.  NXT can be imploded by the wind blowing the wrong direction.

The biggest VTC wallet wasn't even close to as big as the other coins last time I looked, but unloading 50-100k coins is still going to cause some problems.

When I say "imploded", I don't really mean killing the coin, but the price instantly dropping to 1/4 to 1/2 and taking a month to recover to between 50-75% original value isn't fun.

The negative whale factor can also be a positive since they tend to prop the price up to protect their investments.


hi,

well you have to understand 1 thing if a whale wants to come in and fairly buy and by fair i mean buy at the market rate, fairly mine on fair terms like everyone has a chance to mine at the same time on the same diff... and get a large amount of the minting this is entirely different to just taking a HUGE amount of the minting by stealthy tactics and forced instamine.

Let's not get side tracked by current wallet distribution anyone can switch coins from wallet to wallet. Let's not bring other coins into this either. If you consider those coins to be scams please start your own thread.

We are focusing on the 2 main points in the OP else we will just go of on tangents about other things.

Rich people can wade in and buy up things anywhere in life. Is it fair? well that's a different debate.

Let's keep on track here. Sure whales in all things in life hog up stuff but that is a subject for another thread feel free to create one i will pop over and agree with you.


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April 06, 2014, 05:09:17 PM
 #50

I'll break it down for you fellas.

Here are some facts.

1.  The block reward was 500 every couple seconds at launch!  Not 20 or 50 coins every 2.5 minutes as listed.  There was also no windows wallet so only linux users could mine.  This allowed about 1.7-2 million Darkcoins to be instamined in the first 24hours.  Representing about 50% OF ALL DARKCOINS CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE!!!  All mined in the first 24hours by just a few wallets.  Then the rules were changed increasing the block time to 2.5 minutes and eliminating the 500 block reward, (but only after the instaminers had claimed 2 million or so coins first.)

2.  Today many of those day 1 instamined coins have already been sold and right now approx 24% of all Darkcoins are held in just 10 wallets.  This could be 10 people or it could be simply Evan with 10 different wallets.

3.  My opinion is that it is unfair and unfortunate that this occurred and IMO it represents a very real risk to Darkcoin in that there is an opening for a good dev to make an Identical X11 coin that has all the attributes of Darkcoin, plus a few more features, and have a truly fair and equitable launch.  The instamining will continue to be brought up as it currently represents about a 10% premine given the Dev recently reduced the total coins that will ever be in existence to around 22million!
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April 06, 2014, 05:26:40 PM
 #51

I'll break it down for you fellas.

Here are some facts.

1.  The block reward was 500 every couple seconds at launch!  Not 20 or 50 coins every 2.5 minutes as listed.  There was also no windows wallet so only linux users could mine.  This allowed about 1.7-2 million Darkcoins to be instamined in the first 24hours.  Representing about 50% OF ALL DARKCOINS CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE!!!  All mined in the first 24hours by just a few wallets.  Then the rules were changed increasing the block time to 2.5 minutes and eliminating the 500 block reward, (but only after the instaminers had claimed 2 million or so coins first.)

2.  Today many of those day 1 instamined coins have already been sold and right now approx 24% of all Darkcoins are held in just 10 wallets.  This could be 10 people or it could be simply Evan with 10 different wallets.

3.  My opinion is that it is unfair and unfortunate that this occurred and IMO it represents a very real risk to Darkcoin in that there is an opening for a good dev to make an Identical X11 coin that has all the attributes of Darkcoin, plus a few more features, and have a truly fair and equitable launch.  The instamining will continue to be brought up as it currently represents about a 10% premine given the Dev recently reduced the total coins that will ever be in existence to around 22million!

Is it real ? Do you have proof or evidence ?
I have never known about this before, I think it is just X11-NOT-ASIC marketing thing, and DARKSEND-COINJOIN-FACK thing.
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April 06, 2014, 05:29:57 PM
 #52

I'll break it down for you fellas.

Here are some facts.

1.  The block reward was 500 every couple seconds at launch!  Not 20 or 50 coins every 2.5 minutes as listed.  There was also no windows wallet so only linux users could mine.  This allowed about 1.7-2 million Darkcoins to be instamined in the first 24hours.  Representing about 50% OF ALL DARKCOINS CURRENTLY IN EXISTENCE!!!  All mined in the first 24hours by just a few wallets.  Then the rules were changed increasing the block time to 2.5 minutes and eliminating the 500 block reward, (but only after the instaminers had claimed 2 million or so coins first.)

2.  Today many of those day 1 instamined coins have already been sold and right now approx 24% of all Darkcoins are held in just 10 wallets.  This could be 10 people or it could be simply Evan with 10 different wallets.

3.  My opinion is that it is unfair and unfortunate that this occurred and IMO it represents a very real risk to Darkcoin in that there is an opening for a good dev to make an Identical X11 coin that has all the attributes of Darkcoin, plus a few more features, and have a truly fair and equitable launch.  The instamining will continue to be brought up as it currently represents about a 10% premine given the Dev recently reduced the total coins that will ever be in existence to around 22million!

Is it real ? Do you have proof or evidence ?
I have never known about this before, I think it is just X11-NOT-ASIC marketing thing, and DARKSEND-COINJOIN-FACK thing.

The blockchain. http://explorer.darkcoin.io/chain/DarkCoin
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April 06, 2014, 06:12:54 PM
 #53

that is what i said on the other topic pretty much they released Dark coin and then made endless changes to it afterwards
'and i said clearly that this a classic method of gaining a severe advantage to the coin while being able to get away with anything..

i even seen one guy put a virus in one update and he got away with it.. you have all still been mining his coins ever since
these guys can get away with murder and the idiot fanboys doing their bag holder cheer-leading and all the shell accounts
will drown out anyone that exposed these coins for the frauds they are..

like my comment right here will be buried at lightning speed because of 5 comments in a row insulting me (while ignoring making any response to what is aid specifically)
It's a game..

FUD first & ask questions later™
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April 06, 2014, 06:49:50 PM
 #54

The silence created by the block explorer observations seem deafening.


Since the thread started it seems new information comes to light?  do you think it is fair to update the OP to include discussion of these new discoveries?.


1. I was not aware the diff was stuck on super low for hours on end... whilst windows miners were shut out Smiley good job the dev later learned to code DGW and compile windows qt's.

2. I was also not aware the rules on block rewards got changed to lock in super gain from instamining the super easy no competition from windows miners blocks.?

Really? so not only were the blocks coming in at at alarming rate to a very select few people. The blocks were also coming in at super 500 size.  Did someone now mention that the overall minting was also reduced in size to futher weight the coins in the instaminers favour?

I mean this is all new information to me, if i am over stating things let me know. However, it is important to display all the facts right?

But should anyone object to me adding these two extra points in the OP i will refrain from doing so. I mean if they are not facts then i can't go ahead and add them.


Gone a bit quiet in here, i really wanted dark coin supporters or even the dev to pop in and give his side of these seemingly factual accounts. Where are you guys?

Could a scam this massive gone unnoticed until TAOWAY spotted it just yesterday?



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April 06, 2014, 07:06:37 PM
 #55

sorry rum lazy defending the instamine of this size buy saying you think another coin has done the same is not part of the debate.


1. dark coin either did this as displayed by the block explorer or they did not do it.


It is not important if you believe this kind of super size instamine is okay. Justifying it with  developments. If it is proven the dev holds 10% or even far greater of current minting but goes out of his way to claim no premine. Then it is a scam.

Instamine is a doube whammy to miners. He would have been better to premine 5% of total minting from the start, and allow some other miners to get some easy coin instead of making them work months for some scraps compared to what the instaminers grabbed in minutes.


we are seeking the truth not opinion as to whether it is okay to hog all of the coins because a couple of other coin devs have tried the same thing.

Create a thread about those coins and point out these facts.


Again rum lazy ... you may post be facts only. Now this instamine is tolerable hey??  well you're getting there slowly.  Post with facts, not interested in other coins doing the same thing. Post them in your own thread.

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April 06, 2014, 07:11:33 PM
 #56

Could a scam this massive gone unnoticed until TAOWAY spotted it just yesterday?


The facts have been known, but drowned in the hype and disgarded as fud. I first read about the instamine weeks ago, but didn't check the block explorer before 26. march and wrote about my findings then. The instamine is 13,8% of total coins, and more then 75% of the coins mined so far can be counted as instamined.
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April 06, 2014, 07:11:41 PM
 #57


we are seeking the truth not opinion as to whether it is okay to hog all of the coins because a couple of other coin devs have tried the same thing.

Create a thread about those coins and point out these facts.


You are not seeking truth, you are seeking to distort the truth, hence why you keep deleting my posts.
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April 06, 2014, 07:14:38 PM
 #58

sorry rum lazy defending the instamine of this size buy saying you think another coin has done the same is not part of the debate.


1. dark coin either did this as displayed by the block explorer or they did not do it.


It is not important if you believe this kind of super size instamine is okay. Justifying it with  developments. If it is proven the dev holds 10% or even far greater of current minting but goes out of his way to claim no premine. Then it is a scam.

Instamine is a doube whammy to miners. He would have been better to premine 5% of total minting from the start, and allow some other miners to get some easy coin instead of making them work months for some scraps compared to what the instaminers grabbed in minutes.


we are seeking the truth not opinion as to whether it is okay to hog all of the coins because a couple of other coin devs have tried the same thing.

Create a thread about those coins and point out these facts.

I'm not very good at doing investigations through block explorers but I agree if the community as a whole accepts there has been a massive dark coin premine then it could finish it.

If it's true its a pity because dark coin has introduced so much new technology to the alt coin scene. There are loads of other coins copying dark coin features already
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April 06, 2014, 07:15:37 PM
 #59


we are seeking the truth not opinion as to whether it is okay to hog all of the coins because a couple of other coin devs have tried the same thing.

Create a thread about those coins and point out these facts.


You are not seeking truth, you are seeking to distort the truth, hence why you keep deleting my posts.

Hehe yeah okay... sorry i'm deleting your posts because you are trying to derail the thread. I don't want to hear you think feathercoin is worse. Fine go make a feathercoin comparison elsewhere.

I don't care if you think the huge instamine is justified with some innovation. Actually the instamining innovations were pretty amazing there seems to be several steps to it ... first instamine and then extra innovative steps to ensure that instamine is made even more powerful.




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April 06, 2014, 07:18:08 PM
 #60


we are seeking the truth not opinion as to whether it is okay to hog all of the coins because a couple of other coin devs have tried the same thing.

Create a thread about those coins and point out these facts.


You are not seeking truth, you are seeking to distort the truth, hence why you keep deleting my posts.

Hehe yeah okay... sorry i'm deleting your posts because you are trying to derail the thread. I don't want to hear you think feathercoin is worse. Fine go make a feathercoin comparison elsewhere.



Not derailing at all, the post was very on topic actually, you just disagreed with it so you deleted it.  Anyways, I'm done with this thread, have fun trying to bring down darkcoin.
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