NAS the latest GREEDY/PONZI distribution model - 71% to 11 people?? what?

[qbd1313]

 

[Spoetnik]

I don´t understand this cloning thing at all.

If you clone NXT, and the NXT-Team implements improvements and new features, what happens to the clone?
Is it that easy to just copy it again? Or will it last at the old version?

LOL don't bring common sense and logic into this you will offend the shady masked cloners and their farmed lemmings hahhaa

[ShawnLeary]

A little off topic,

With all these PoS coins around are there any that are actually worth investing in? I haven't done much research on PoS coins and thought it may be time to buy some, or not...

I'm not sure, my trading advice is deadly i would not inflict that on anyone.

Make a thread, and ask. POS seems a good way to go for energy efficiency... a lot of coins will introduce it soon i'm sure.


So back to nxt and the clones...

who can clone nxt and give more than 11 people a  fair chance at getting a reasonable amount.

I would be into a new PoS NXT or other clone that is fairly distributed. Faircoin attempted some sort of fair distribution, but then shit happened, the devs either got greedy or they fucked up. Blackcoin seems to be doing okay, it was distributed with PoW as we all know.

So I guess the real question is how to distribute a PoS coin fairly?

Facebook? - no many alts can be created and some people already have that.
Captcha with IP address verification - no some people have access to many IP addresses. Sysadmins for instance.
Airdrop - scams with centralized control
BTCTalk accounts? - no many alternate accounts held by members.
IPO - no it doesn't work for fair distribution.

I don't know if this is possible but how about this approach -

We take an established coin and use its addresses for fair distribution for this example lets say we decide to use LTC. A snapshot of the LTC blockchain is taken at a set date. The PoS coin uses the addresses to hand out coins. If you have say 5 addresses in your LTC wallet you'll be able to import those into the new PoS coin and for each one you get a set amount of new PoS coins. Can something like this work? Kinda like what Protoshares does.

NEM coin

[ShawnLeary]

Pretty much Graviton is a scammer. He's made his money from NXT and now trying a new scam (NAS). I love how he pretends to warn people that NAS could be manipulated (as if he is covering his arse because he knows what is going on).

You can't tell from DGEX.com that he has made a killing, I don't think he was an original investor or DGEX would look like Coinbase.

[Troonetpt]

It's not a ponzi, it called greater fool.

[cryptohunter]

No not really. Fair means as many people as possible have equal chance at getting coins.

I don't consider those BTC whales just getting a whale share of all new alts fair. Any anyone who is not a BTC whale would probably see it the same way. Even the btc whales would know it was not really fair.

Everyone had an equal chance to get BTC.

But wait, you say, what about all the people that didn't know about it back in 2010?

Well, I say what about the people who show up in 2020 and didn't know about your amazing new alt in 2014?  

This never ends.

Ultimately the market will decide. I think treating new cryptos as spin offs from btc (which is most certainly what they are, objectively speaking) is likely to become a dominant distribution model, and like every single conceivable distribution model there will always be people who say it isn't fair. That can't be a disqualifier or there would be no distribution.

Yeah but i won't be telling the 2020 people they don't get any of the 2020 alts because they were not around in 2014. That's the big difference.  I will tell them they are going to get the same opportunity the 2014 miners/investors got.

I'm not saying you  have to give the 2014 people your BTC, i am saying they deserve equal opportunity to aquire 2014 alts that are relaased and that they are aware of.


Just because you are lucky enough to be an early adopter in BTC does not entitle you to be an early adopter in all future opportunities. That is a crazy notion.

Alts are seperate new opportunities to BTC.  

The only people that will ever want this kind of sidechain distribution will have a major stake in BTC.

[vytasz7]

Is there something contagious in the nxt source code.... that demands super concentrated distribution??

The developers miss the elephant in the room....


NXT looks good, but is held back by the initial distribution to only 71 people...

So you clone next and obviously you take away this criticism so that your coin may not have this to drag it down.

So now we get NAS - - guess what 71% to 11 people with the largest of the 11 holding 20% of the entire minting.... LOL what???




Is it true that the top 3 IPO investors received 37% of all coins, and the top 11 IPO investors received 71% of all coins?

Ranking   Account Number   NAS received   % of total 10bn NAS
1   16545239077924294773   1993005000   19.93%
2   1017925928554332177   997500000   9.98%
3   12962305291451856272   733761000   7.34%
4   10154666925216279036   527478000   5.27%
5   9437257435252063080   470820000   4.71%
6   17852752570692853871   439698000   4.4%
7   9431573599992481224   399000000   3.99%
8   3946695318601168288   399000000   3.99%
9   9073375756757743601   399000000   3.99%
10   9936206869497287267   399000000   3.99%
11   7827670721723948264   398800500   3.99%

someome apparently bought nearly 2 000 000 000 coins for 0.49 BTC and wants to sell it now for MIN of 500BTC lol wtf  this board gets more insane by the day?


the giveaway was crumbs for hundreds of people.... all combined have a fraction of 1 person.

But wait there is a huge giveway right? nope it is tiny ... 1 person got 10x more than 100's of people combined?

NO - everyone else get's to share just  10% of ONE persons personal stash? this is just crazy.

So 1 single person holds 20% everyone else gets share between hundreds of them 2% ? what?


Even with NXT you could buy it cheap from the ipo holders for a while.... these NAS guys only want 800-1200X their investment a few days ago.


Can someone copy and paste next and actually distribute the coins out to MORE than 11 people?  



Anyone buying this at 20 sats is insane....


Some one will be a long shortly with the next nxt clone that actually gets some kind of reasonable distribution model going.



If you could not be bothered to read that.........


NAS distribution  is  WAY worse than Nxt's distribution. The giveaway means nothing in real terms.

Someone needs to release a nxt clone that does not allow 11 people to hold 71% of the coins.... how difficult can it be.


Let's discuss ways to provide better distribution methods.

I  would like to explain why that bad distribution happened ,it wasnt because of greedy devs ,it was because bitcointalk locked the ipo thread . As i understand they thought its a scam .So the devs just trasfered nas coins to investors who already tranfered some money and to people who registered for free 100000 nas coins .Bad distribution wasnt devs guilt at all ,bitcointalk is responsible for bad distribution because of  their actions .

[TwinWinNerD]

Is there something contagious in the nxt source code.... that demands super concentrated distribution??

The developers miss the elephant in the room....


NXT looks good, but is held back by the initial distribution to only 71 people...

So you clone next and obviously you take away this criticism so that your coin may not have this to drag it down.

So now we get NAS - - guess what 71% to 11 people with the largest of the 11 holding 20% of the entire minting.... LOL what???




Is it true that the top 3 IPO investors received 37% of all coins, and the top 11 IPO investors received 71% of all coins?

Ranking   Account Number   NAS received   % of total 10bn NAS
1   16545239077924294773   1993005000   19.93%
2   1017925928554332177   997500000   9.98%
3   12962305291451856272   733761000   7.34%
4   10154666925216279036   527478000   5.27%
5   9437257435252063080   470820000   4.71%
6   17852752570692853871   439698000   4.4%
7   9431573599992481224   399000000   3.99%
8   3946695318601168288   399000000   3.99%
9   9073375756757743601   399000000   3.99%
10   9936206869497287267   399000000   3.99%
11   7827670721723948264   398800500   3.99%

someome apparently bought nearly 2 000 000 000 coins for 0.49 BTC and wants to sell it now for MIN of 500BTC lol wtf  this board gets more insane by the day?


the giveaway was crumbs for hundreds of people.... all combined have a fraction of 1 person.

But wait there is a huge giveway right? nope it is tiny ... 1 person got 10x more than 100's of people combined?

NO - everyone else get's to share just  10% of ONE persons personal stash? this is just crazy.

So 1 single person holds 20% everyone else gets share between hundreds of them 2% ? what?


Even with NXT you could buy it cheap from the ipo holders for a while.... these NAS guys only want 800-1200X their investment a few days ago.


Can someone copy and paste next and actually distribute the coins out to MORE than 11 people?  



Anyone buying this at 20 sats is insane....


Some one will be a long shortly with the next nxt clone that actually gets some kind of reasonable distribution model going.



If you could not be bothered to read that.........


NAS distribution  is  WAY worse than Nxt's distribution. The giveaway means nothing in real terms.

Someone needs to release a nxt clone that does not allow 11 people to hold 71% of the coins.... how difficult can it be.


Let's discuss ways to provide better distribution methods.

I  would like to explain why that bad distribution happened ,it wasnt because of greedy devs ,it was because bitcointalk locked the ipo thread . As i understand they thought its a scam .So the devs just trasfered nas coins to investors who already tranfered some money and to people who registered for free 100000 nas coins .Bad distribution wasnt devs guilt at all ,bitcointalk is responsible for bad distribution because of  their actions .

Yes this maybe. But now the distribution is pretty bad and we need to do something about that. We need to giveaway more coins. But all the guys I wrote to either ignore me or already sent what they wanted to send.

[vytasz7]

to cryptohunter: if you dont know all the information dont make thread about it , find out facts first,and if you feel that you missed on something ,make a thread how bitcointalk robed you of investment opportunity

[Shivalein]

I don´t understand this cloning thing at all.

If you clone NXT, and the NXT-Team implements improvements and new features, what happens to the clone?
Is it that easy to just copy it again? Or will it last at the old version?

LOL don't bring common sense and logic into this you will offend the shady masked cloners and their farmed lemmings hahhaa

But thats indeed an interesting question. What happens to NHZ and NAS and blablabla when NXT in inventing a great feature? In my opinion they are no clones anymore, they are just old versions which no future, if there aren´t programmers which can make the same step happen.

[TwinWinNerD]

I don´t understand this cloning thing at all.

If you clone NXT, and the NXT-Team implements improvements and new features, what happens to the clone?
Is it that easy to just copy it again? Or will it last at the old version?

LOL don't bring common sense and logic into this you will offend the shady masked cloners and their farmed lemmings hahhaa

But thats indeed an interesting question. What happens to NHZ and NAS and blablabla when NXT in inventing a great feature? In my opinion they are no clones anymore, they are just old versions which no future, if there aren´t programmers which can make the same step happen.

If you don't drastically change the sourcecode, you can just merge the new features into the clones. This will be done all the time with NAS for example.

[Shivalein]

I don´t understand this cloning thing at all.

If you clone NXT, and the NXT-Team implements improvements and new features, what happens to the clone?
Is it that easy to just copy it again? Or will it last at the old version?

LOL don't bring common sense and logic into this you will offend the shady masked cloners and their farmed lemmings hahhaa

But thats indeed an interesting question. What happens to NHZ and NAS and blablabla when NXT in inventing a great feature? In my opinion they are no clones anymore, they are just old versions which no future, if there aren´t programmers which can make the same step happen.

If you don't drastically change the sourcecode, you can just merge the new features into the clones. This will be done all the time with NAS for example.

And which features are there in NAS which are not included in NXT?

[smooth]

Yeah but i won't be telling the 2020 people they don't get any of the 2020 alts because they were not around in 2014. That's the big difference.  I will tell them they are going to get the same opportunity the 2014 miners/investors got.

I'm not saying you  have to give the 2014 people your BTC, i am saying they deserve equal opportunity to aquire 2014 alts that are relaased and that they are aware of.

Just because you are lucky enough to be an early adopter in BTC does not entitle you to be an early adopter in all future opportunities. That is a crazy notion.

Alts are seperate new opportunities to BTC.  

The only people that will ever want this kind of sidechain distribution will have a major stake in BTC.

Wait, where did I say that all coins should use this method?

I don't believe that at all. I view it as an alternative for getting a coin into a wide number of hands in a stable way. That's very useful for bootstrapping, especially for pure proof-of-stake coins which don't really have any proven methods of doing this.

If you want to create e new coin and use a different method go right ahead  (now or in 2020).

But I don't view it as "unfair" to launch a coin using this method either. New coin creators can do whatever the hell they want.

BTW, I assure you I am not Satoshi Nakamoto. I have a few BTC but if and when I launch a coin this way, it will be for the above reasons, not because I have a "huge" stake in BTC and want to grab most of the new coins.

[TwinWinNerD]

I don´t understand this cloning thing at all.

If you clone NXT, and the NXT-Team implements improvements and new features, what happens to the clone?
Is it that easy to just copy it again? Or will it last at the old version?

LOL don't bring common sense and logic into this you will offend the shady masked cloners and their farmed lemmings hahhaa

But thats indeed an interesting question. What happens to NHZ and NAS and blablabla when NXT in inventing a great feature? In my opinion they are no clones anymore, they are just old versions which no future, if there aren´t programmers which can make the same step happen.

If you don't drastically change the sourcecode, you can just merge the new features into the clones. This will be done all the time with NAS for example.

And which features are there in NAS which are not included in NXT?

None at this moment. Never claimed that either (or did I?!?). I was just stating a fact. NAS has some differences though. The main client is per default wesleyhs client with alternative addresses enabled. Soon there will be a new windows .exe client with chat and decentralised dice game released.

[cryptohunter]

Yes i agree, i don't think the dev of NAS took the coins.

What i think is that the ipo was crazy large stake of the coins. He did not take them since he would be pretty insane to make it look this bad. Nobody wanting to get away with it would give 20% to one person and 71% to 11 people. He would have send himself 100's of little btc stakes to make the ipo look more reasonable.

If i were the NAS dev i would scrap it, give the ipo people back their 2BTC or whatever and start again with a sensible distribution.

Unless they give away 4 billion + of it it will never live down it's initial 71% to 11 people start. Hell nxt has never lived down its distribution to 71 people even though they have done a lot of work and not pressed copy and paste.

Nas will be floored to zero once a real clone of nxt shows up with some decent initial distribution method.

The ONLY reason to clone nxt would be to distribute the coins better at the start. Otherwise just stick with nxt i guess.

I would not touch a coin with 71% given to only 11 people, it will always be crashed down by that fact... people will either go with nxt itself or wait for a way more fair nxt clone.

I say again i do not think the NAS dev took the coins and i do not think it is a scam. I do think it is the worst coin in terms of initial distribution i have every seen and therefore it will never succeed. Hell other coins with nothing like as bad distribution have been crashed down by constant bickering and complaining about the start of them.

NAS ipo people give up at least half of your stash for the giveaway so people get 10x the rewards they are getting now or watch the coin fail.  200M is nothing it is 10% of what just one single person has.

 Should the entire board help a coin succeed so that one person gets 10x the rewards of everyone else combined?? get serious.

[TwinWinNerD]

 200M is nothing it is 10% of what just one single person has.

That was the initial distribution, this person sold most of his stash. I bought many of his coins and resold them, then he sold about 300M to anohtether person. Also he deposited about 400 M to dgex.  He now owns 370 M

Should the entire board help a coin succeed so that one person gets 10x the rewards of everyone else combined?? get serious.

Why does the board help anyone do anything? The people can decide for themselve if they would like to participate in a currency. I don't see anyone get pressured into using NAS, do you?

YOu talk like other coins have better distributions. I bet 90% of coins have the top 1% holding over 60% of all coins.

[cryptohunter]

200M is nothing it is 10% of what just one single person has.

That was the initial distribution, this person sold most of his stash. I bought many of his coins and resold them, then he sold about 300M to anohtether person. Also he deposited about 400 M to dgex.  He now owns 370 M

Should the entire board help a coin succeed so that one person gets 10x the rewards of everyone else combined?? get serious.

Why does the board help anyone do anything? The people can decide for themselve if they would like to participate in a currency. I don't see anyone get pressured into using NAS, do you?

YOu talk like other coins have better distributions. I bet 90% of coins have the top 1% holding over 60% of all coins.

ALL other coins did have better distributions. The fact that coins can be spread out to new wallets by anyone after this point shows nothing. I can spread out 2 billion nas to 50 wallets with ease.

Please don't attempt to negate the intial distribution question here. Initial distribution is KEY.

It is the initial distribution we are discussing. We can't rely on hearsay of what happened afterwards.  

The facts are the facts

71% of all coins were given to 11 people.  This is nothing other than the worst initial distribution idea yet on the board.

It would be nice to see a nxt clone where more than a handful of people are given a good amount of the coins. Simple as that.

Let's not let this one slide, else you will get more of the same.  Next coin 100% of coins to 2 people. But wait that is okay because we sold it to other people and spread it out to different wallets we own.

You have a huge chunk of NAS so i don't blame you for trying to salvage this distribution crisis, however salvage is not really possible.

Nxt can say all the same things and more ... but still i hear people saying the main reason they will not invest is because of the intial distribution to 71 people.

NAS was worse and just copied nxt code anyway..

This thread like all such threads turns from an OP showing the clear facts of the intial distribution model that was the worst ever seen on the board.. into a thread of justifications and excuses as to why it happened and how it will all be better soon once they dump their stashes.

That is not the point, the point is only that it did happen and that it should not happen again because the next coin that tries it will suffer the same scrutiny and bad press that will hold the coin back forever.

There will be a better distributed nxt clone out any moment now if we make sure not to let this type of concentrated distribution happen again in the future.

Nas is done, i see no way it can ever recover from this now.

The point of this thread is to highlight this issue and make sure new clones don't make the same mistake. If they do, we shall simply highlight the facts then once again. Until eventually the devs start to realise it is not worth making a coin that will forever be reminded of its very unfair origins. They can achieve much more by making it as widely and fairly distributed as possible. Sure give the ipo or early birds a huge advantage if you like but don't give one person 20% of the coins, and 10 others another 61% of the entire minting...that's just silly.

[TwinWinNerD]

Nas is done, i see no way it can ever recover from this now.

The point of this thread is to highlight this issue and make sure new clones don't make the same mistake. If they do, we shall simply highlight the facts then once again. Until eventually the devs start to realise it is not worth making a coin that will forever be reminded of its very unfair origins. They can achieve much more by making it as widely and fairly distributed as possible. Sure give the ipo or early birds a huge advantage if you like but don't give one person 20% of the coins, and 10 others another 61% of the entire minting...that's just silly.

Noted, so any discussion is pointless then anyway as you have made up your mind even though you were at no point involved. Must be nice to have so much time for things that don't really affect you

Also, for the statement that NAS is done. I'd bet against that (by holding my coins) and even though only future can tell, I think this coin has a long and successful way ahead. We might not be a NXT, but we will damn sure be the most successful direct clone of NXT for a long time!!

[cryptohunter]

Nas is done, i see no way it can ever recover from this now.

The point of this thread is to highlight this issue and make sure new clones don't make the same mistake. If they do, we shall simply highlight the facts then once again. Until eventually the devs start to realise it is not worth making a coin that will forever be reminded of its very unfair origins. They can achieve much more by making it as widely and fairly distributed as possible. Sure give the ipo or early birds a huge advantage if you like but don't give one person 20% of the coins, and 10 others another 61% of the entire minting...that's just silly.

Noted, so any discussion is pointless then anyway as you have made up your mind even though you were at no point involved. Must be nice to have so much time for things that don't really affect you

Also, for the statement that NAS is done. I'd bet against that (by holding my coins) and even though only future can tell, I think this coin has a long and successful way ahead. We might not be a NXT, but we will damn sure be the most successful direct clone of NXT for a long time!!

1. i don't need to be involved to state that 71% of the minting was given to just 11 people.

The facts don't change regardless of involvement.

2. Most people that hold a HUGE share of a coin want to believe it will be successful. That does not essential make it so.

Nas will not escape the facts, neither shall any other coins that feel the best way to distribute their minting is by giving 71% to 11 people.

My mind is made up that is was the worst distribution i have seen yet on this board. Based purely upon the facts that it was the worst distributed coin i have seen yet. Nothing more nothing less.

Really unless you can go back in time and change the facts, they will remain the facts and should be brought up in any discussion of NAS in the future. Just like happens with other coins with undesirable initial distributions.

Let's leave it at that. 71% was given to 11 people, there is nothing that can change that fact. The rest is merely justification and excuses.

Let's hope the next nxt clones give a better try and distributing the coins.

[TwinWinNerD]

Did you know there is another clone of NXT out there. And it is even older than NAS?

Ever wondered why you didn't hear anything about that? (or not much?)